All through this nightmarish week, the timeline authorities in Texas offered for the police response to the school shooting kept falling apart. It’s normal for early accounts of what happened in a chaotic situation to evolve, but the changing story in this case seemed like ass-covering, and this catastrophic press conference basically confirms that:
On 40 minute delay in police engaging the suspect inside Robb Elementary School, officials say, "a decision was made that this was a barricaded subject…there was time to retrieve the keys."
"From the benefit of hindsight…it was the wrong decision." https://t.co/q812K5OQTv pic.twitter.com/59SMt32ElZ
— ABC News (@ABC) May 27, 2022
Earlier, video emerged of frantic parents being treated like criminals for questioning the cops’ strategy of standing around outside the school. One woman, Angeli Rose Gomez, heard about the shooting while at work and drove 40 miles to the school to see about her second- and third-grade children. Here’s more of her story from the anti-cop, commie WSJ:
Ms. Gomez, a farm supervisor, was also waiting outside for her children. She said she was one of numerous parents who began encouraging—first politely, and then with more urgency—police and other law enforcement to enter the school sooner. After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for intervening in an active investigation.
Ms. Gomez said she convinced local Uvalde police officers whom she knew to persuade the marshals to set her free…
Ms. Gomez described the scene as frantic. She said she saw a father tackled and thrown to the ground by police and a third pepper-sprayed. Once freed from her cuffs, Ms. Gomez made her distance from the crowd, jumped the school fence, and ran inside to grab her two children. She sprinted out of the school with them.
The U.S. Marshals deny cuffing Ms. Gomez, but who’s credible here? The people who keep changing the story? I believe her.
JFC. I know we need law enforcement, but seriously, what the fuck are we doing? Even aside from the atrocity in Texas and the occupying force mentality most cops display toward “civilians,” complete with summary beatings and executions that fall disproportionately on people of color, what are we getting for our massive police investment?
The average “clearance rates” are godawful for all categories of crimes nationwide. Is this true in other countries too? I honestly don’t know. But dumping money and military equipment on police forces here doesn’t seem to be working.
Open thread.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
While I feel for these frantic parents, why is it they only seem to grab their own children instead of trying to get as many out as possible? How do you just leave the other children there?
scav
They certainly seem to issue a tin ear with that shiny badge. One apologizes, Steve McCrawdad, whether it fixes things or not.
Barbara
At least he admitted they were wrong and there was no excuse for the response. But everyone needs to keep questioning because the more they learn the worse it gets. The police were useless.
raven
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony I think this falls under if you weren’t there shut your mouth.
raven
respectfully
scav
Yup, but the refusal to apologize damnall signals a mental reserve about accepting responsibility.
Barbara
‘@Sister — I wouldn’t go there. When the authorities fail you cannot possibly expect individuals to swoop in and save the day for everyone. It’s the wrong focus.
Quaker in a Basement
Hold on. While all the police–from at least three different agencies–stood around, this mom jumped a fence, entered the school, collected her kids, and left with them?
That doesn’t really sound like they were in control of the school at all.
cain
Why would she lie? It seems quite probably that something like that would happen. The police were using crowd control tactics on these frantic parents – one has to question why the fuck they would approach such a crowd that way.
Shalimar
40% of their town budget went to pay 19 officers to stand around in the hallway for 45 minutes while kids called 911 from inside the classroom begging for help.
That police department should be a lot smaller. 3 or 4 people could have done nothing in the hallway just as easily.
UncleEbeneezer
Pretty much every Nation/State/Province/Town etc., in the world has some sort of armed (either with guns or batons) law enforcement. It’s not the concept of policing that is the problem, it is the existing American institution and how it operates.
We can (and should) look at other countries who have a far less problematic system and try to make ours function like theirs. Of course the elephant in the room is our National obsession with guns! There are all kinds of best-practice policies that can yield better policing and a safer world for the public but:
1.) they are limited in effectiveness without tackling the gun problem,
2.) they need to be implemented locally, including most places where there is no interest or political will to adopt them. States can do some good things, but of course Red States, will never do the right thing. And even in Blue States, it is extremely hard to defeat a Blue Lives Matter society and police unions.
Reimagining Justice (a better framing than “Defund” that essentially pushes the same exact approach) and vigorous Oversight & Accountability (for the police that we will always still need to some extent) are absolutely the way to go.
Unfortunately due to the 17,000+ police departments/jurisdictions in this country, there is/are no easy One Weird Trick to solving the problem of US Policing.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
‘@raven @Barbara I understand what you are saying. I wasn’t there. This whole situation is just hard for me to grasp, on every level.
Baud
Question. What equipment or training did Border Patrol have that enabled them to stop the shooter that the cops and Marshalls that were on the scene sooner did not have?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
“She said she was one of numerous parents who began encouraging—first politely, and then with more urgency—police and other law enforcement to enter the school sooner. After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for intervening in an active investigation.”
What were they even arresting her for, annoying them, basically? Christ, the more I read about the police response yesterday, the more my blood boiled.
This excellent reddit comment really summed it all up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/uy5kg1/oc_cop_wassault_rifle_ready_to_tase_parents_but/ia421yu?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Get a load of this idiotic Jason Whitlock tweet, linked to in that Reddit comment:
“I’m not defending the actions of the officers. But we’ve demonized law enforcement to the point that there are far fewer rewards for being a hero, for taking risks. When your culture makes George Floyd the hero, real heroes stand down. Cultural rot has consequences.”
Gahh! Unfuckingbelievable!
“See, it’s really the fault of Antifa and BLM that those cops didn’t do their jobs!”
Who the fuck ever said George Floyd was a “hero”? Nobody! No one said he was a villain either (well, aside from the usual suspects). He was a man, no doubt flawed like anyone else, who was murdered for no reason by the “real heroes” this Whitlock guy wants us to worship
jnfr
I am so utterly, hopelessly angry about this I don’t even know what to do with myself.
MisterDancer
We are subject to literal decades of media telling us to trust cops. It’s deeply embedded in our cultural landscape; cop shows are literal background noise for millions going about their day.
When Black Lives Matters came into the mainstream, I could see the…discomfort of many, around the idea of challenging the place of Law Enforcement. Yet it needs to be done, because what BLM was saying about Black folx, we’re seeing, once again, with kids of many backgrounds.
We — all of us — have to work together to make enough of a noise that the inevitable backlash doesn’t succeed. Conservative Backlashes win because they prey on our insecurities, our fears we aren’t doing what’s really right, and are worn out and tired from all this life does to us.
And I sympathise with that. I really do. But society is counting on us to not let this, or the other 100 fights piling up, go.
We can’t all do it all. But we can start to work together to push for change, from demanding our local media do better, all the way up to screaming into the White House switchboard.
Because you can already see them, in damn near real-time, developing up that counter-narrative, trying to stifle our rage, once again. Working to demoralize and distract us.
But we have a right to be, and stay, HOSTILE. To build alliances of pissed-off MFs.
Let’s use it.
raven
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony indeed it is
Baud
‘@Goku
>>But we’ve demonized law enforcement to the point that there are far fewer rewards for being a hero, for taking risks.
___________
This statement is an obvious lie, at least as to being a hero. We do demonize law enforcement for “taking risks” when those risks are taken with recklessness or depraved indifference.
And no one on the left demonized the officer that shot and killed Ashli Babbit. That all happened on the right.
Suzanne
I could point out that we’ve allowed so many BAD PEOPLE to have guns that literally the police are too afraid to do anything and thus we live in utter lawlessness.
I will also point out that, while I don’t ever want police to be harmed, I don’t want kids to ever be harmed more. Therefore, the job that I am hiring for is to serve and protect those kids and those teachers first, and the police surviving the encounter is my second priority. Contrary to the Defund message, I am willing — THRILLED — to pay more in tax dollars for this. But that’s the job I’m hiring for.
MazeDancer
The “on-scene Commander” was most likely Pete Arredondo, who is Chief of Uvalde School District police.
He was also recently elected to the City Council. Supposed to be sworn-in on May 31. Thinking maybe they’re might be a Special Election upcoming due to his being run out of town.
Kept seeing people tweeting that Abbott had said “It could have been worse” about the Uvalde shooting. But couldn’t believe even Abbott would say something so stupid.
Guess what? He did. Here’s the video: https://twitter.com/noliewithbtc/status/1530198495008854018?s=21&t=FzR5rKeEzwSR8EZWAnMnfw
West of the Cascades
‘@Baud
>> What equipment or training did Border Patrol have that enabled them to stop the shooter that the cops and Marshalls that were on the scene sooner did not have?
Courage?
Bobby Thomson
The teacher across the hall talked about listening to the wails of kids. The cops are still full of shit and we won’t approach the truth until all the video and audio recordings come out.
Ohio Mom
The last two times I’ve seen police officers out and about, they were wearing all black, with thick bullet-proof vests over their uniforms, and helmets on their heads, looking ready for combat.
The first time was a pair at our neighborhood’s annual Earth Day festival. It’s bunch of booths and food trucks at a bucolic suburban park. Pretty quiet event, there wasn’t any music, just people chatting.
The second time was three of them together, last week, in the lobby of the hotel we were staying at in suburban New Jersey.
There did not seem to be anything going on in either place, both times the policemen were just milling around — although I guess one of the takeaways from Texas is, just because police are doing nothing doesn’t mean there is not a crisis nearby.
Anyway, I find it extremely creepy to be anywhere near cops dressed like that. If it’s so dangerous that they need bulletproof vests, why am I lingering at the parks department booth picking up literature? And if I were the hotel management, I’d worry about my guests getting nervous that something bad was happening and leaving their suspicions in a Yelp review.
You will find no argument from me that at the very least, their uniform budget could be slashed.
Bobby Thomson
‘@Goku: as many people responded to waste of space Whitlock, if you need praise to go rescue children from being murdered you are in the wrong line of work.
scav
‘@mazedancer
moreover, he actually chose to wear and took time to put on that police-wannabe suit for this PR session? What sort of black-shirt police state they got running down there Texasway?
lowtechcyclist
‘@Shalimar: “40% of their town budget went to pay 19 officers to stand around in the hallway for 45 minutes while kids called 911 from inside the classroom begging for help.”
That’s the part that breaks me. Those kids desperately calling 911 from inside the room, and the cops right outside in the hall, twiddling their thumbs.
The absolute icing on the cake of this horrible tale.
Unless, of course, the cops blame the parents for the 911 messages not getting through to them. Yeah, that’ll probably be their justification.
ETA: God, I hate being this cynical, but my cynicism is running well behind reality these days, and especially with this story.
debbie
I thought I read there was video of the mother being cuffed and down on the ground?
Call me skeptical, but I think if the kids and parents had been white, the cops would have made more of an effort. I wonder if at any time, the cops and parents could hear shots being fired. Wouldn’t that cancel waiting for keys or for anything else?
Baud
Via Reddit
https://i.redd.it/azsm79j641291.gif
syphonblue
“Maybe the “Defund the Police” people are right…”
Oh wow huh how bout that weird weird weird
UncleEbeneezer
The people who are (and have been) preventing any meaningful action on Gun Control and Police Reform aren’t afraid of protests, boycotts, marches, fiery speeches, lengthy Twitter threads, losing campaign donations/endorsements etc. The only thing they truly fear is us VOTING.
Baud
‘@UncleEbeneezer
I agree. I can’t believe this is still under debate.
debbie
This merits attention in this thread:
https://twitter.com/QuicklyThisWay/status/1530204783386275841?s=20&t=hLQCAYymwm3ymSJZHjLWuA
As does the suggestion earlier today that it was one of the dead teacher’s fault because she had left the door open. She received a text and was moving to lock the door when she was shot and killed.
The Moar You Know
This is the second school shooting where cops have refused to enter the building.
Nobody can make a case that it’s worth paying these people if they won’t do their jobs. And these guys knew what was up (they got their own kids out) and stone-cold refused to do their jobs.
Cops who refuse to work should be fired.
indycat32
A barricaded subject!! Good God, did they not know he was barricaded in a room full of children, or did they just not care.
debbie
I’ve also read that this school building had been “hardened” against a terrorist attack, so there should be cameras which will let us know exactly what was going on. Even so, with this “hardening,” I’d have thought the police might have felt safer at least entering the goddamn building.
The Moar You Know
‘@Goku
“I’m not defending the actions of the officers. But we’ve demonized law enforcement to the point that there are far fewer rewards for being a hero, for taking risks. When your culture makes George Floyd the hero, real heroes stand down. Cultural rot has consequences.”
Let’s just say every word of that is true. It isn’t, but let’s just say. OK. You know what else has consequences? Refusing to do your job. If I refuse to deal with an emergency at my job, I get fired. I will not cater to people whose hurt feelings mean they refuse to do their jobs. They can and should be fired.
debbie
‘@ Baud: Sick, sick, sick.
Scout211
This story on the top Of CNN news site is just so heart-breaking but also so amazing that this 11 year old and several of her classmates lived through the massacre, played dead and then called 911 with the teacher’s phone. Over and over again.
I wondered if 10 years old was a little young for my granddaughter to get an iPhone, but I wonder no more. I’m very glad she has one now.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/robb-shooting-survivor-miah-cerrillo/index.html
“ CNN)An 11-year-old survivor of the Robb Elementary School massacre in Uvalde, Texas, feared the gunman would come back for her so she smeared herself in her friend’s blood and played dead.
. . .
“She described it all happening so fast — her teacher backed into the classroom and the gunman followed. She told CNN he made eye contact with one of the teachers, said, “Goodnight,” and then shot her.
He opened fire, shooting the other teacher and many of Miah’s friends. She said bullets flew by her, and fragments hit her shoulders and head. The girl was later treated at the hospital and released with fragment wounds; she described to CNN that clumps of her hair were falling out now.
Miah said after shooting students in her class, the gunman went through a door into an adjoining classroom. She heard screams, and the sound of shots in that classroom. After the shots stopped, though, she says the shooter started playing loud music — sad music, she said.
The girl and a friend managed to get her dead teacher’s phone and call 911 for help. She said she told a dispatcher, “Please come … we’re in trouble.”
Gin & Tonic
Why does a *School District* have its own police department? Am I missing something here?
Suzanne
‘@debbie
There’s starting to be a lot of pissing and moaning that schools have “too many doors”. Those are fucking FIRE EXITS, because sometimes people have to ESCAPE FOR SAFETY.
I am a little raw about this, as two weeks ago today, the house two doors down from mine caught on fire. The family escaped, but the firefighters reported that the fire was difficult to fight because they had so much ammunition and the heat of the fire was making it go off constantly.
I will note that the homeowners are so old and infirm that they have to use a wheelchair lift to get from the street to the front door. The husband is on dialysis three times a week and is mostly deaf. The wife doesn’t have the strength to deal with their dog and she leaves him out in the yard to bark. SO OF COURSE these people have a stockpile of ammunition!!!
Scout211
Gin & Tonic May 27, 2022 at 3:16 PM
Why does a *School District* have its own police department? Am I missing something here?
That’s not unusual here in California.
Tazj
I’m seeing the same talkings points from the right. This is what you get for demonizing the police. I read something this morning from a law professor in Iowa. He said if you have calls to defund the police you can expect to have more incompetent officers and therefore more people buying their own guns to protect themselves. What? People have only been talking about that for 2 years and many officers involved in these tragic cases have been officers for a lot longer. He also asked if anyone’s mind changed from all the recent arguments. I thought probably not, most people want more gun control but our politicians won’t vote for it.
kalakal
‘@debbie
The gunhumpers really have no bottom.
The sheer obscenity of this suggestion
“it was one of the dead teacher’s fault because she had left the door open. She received a text and was moving to lock the door when she was shot and killed.”
Have these people no soul, no conscience, no single spark of humanity?
Knee deep in the blood of children and they blame a murdered teacher?
Adding disgust to horror
Kay
The teachers are really brave. I’ve read tens of these stories and I have yet to read one where any teacher abandoned kids to save themselves. It’s extraordinary and we should recognize it.
We need to start thinking about how we define strength and why it doesn’t include the people who have actually lost their lives defending these kids. They have their own kids, and they stay with ours until they’re gunned down. Amazing people.
Suzanne
I will also point out AGAIN that lots of places, especially schools, have been advising to LEAVE DOORS OPEN to promote better ventilation during this motherfucking pandemic.
Sure Lurkalot
I can’t wrap my head around the fact that not a single one of the 19 or however many were in the hall, questioned or challenged the inaction. If what happened was against protocol and training, they all made the conscious decision to ignore what they were taught.
debbie
‘@ Suzanne: I heard one representative from somewhere opine this morning that schools should only have ONE door. Can you imagine recess?!?
Betty Cracker
‘@Kay: Good point. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a case of a teacher abandoning kids to run away either. This teacher’s account of what happened really got to me the other day. A truly heroic woman:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teacher-uvalde-texas-describes-longest-35-minutes-life-rcna30571
Her students had been watching a Disney movie Tuesday morning as part of their year-end celebration. When she heard gunfire explode down the hall, she knew exactly what it was. She shouted for her kids to get under their desks and sprinted to lock her classroom door.
The children did exactly as they were told, she said.
“They’ve been practicing for this day for years,” the teacher said, referring to the active shooter exercises that have become as much a fixture of public education in America as math, science and reading. “They knew this wasn’t a drill. We knew we had to be quiet or else we were going to give ourselves away…”
As the children huddled under their desks, staying quiet as their wounded classmates wailed from down the hall, the teacher sat on the floor in the middle of the room. She tried to stay calm, she said. To be strong for them.
What followed, she said, was “the longest 35 minutes of my life.”
A few students started crying, so she motioned for them to come sit by her. She held them and whispered for them to pray silently. Without speaking, she tried to convey to the class: You’re OK. We’re going to be OK.
Finally, police approached from outside the classroom and broke the windows. The teacher called for her students to line up. Quickly but orderly. Just like they do every day for lunch and recess.
One by one, the teacher held their hands and helped each of her students out the window.
“After the last kid, I turned around to ensure everyone was out,” the teacher said. “I knew I had to go quickly, but I wasn’t leaving until I knew for sure…”
Later, as the unthinkable toll of the shooting came into focus, some parents texted the teacher: “Thank you for keeping my baby safe.”
“But it’s not just their baby,” the teacher said, sobbing on her front porch. “That’s my baby, too. They are not my students. They are my children.”
Baud
Good to remember that the black security guard (off duty cop?) got killed trying to stop the Buffalo shooter. They’re not all cowards.
Calouste
‘@Sure Lurkalot
The average American cop has only between 6 and 12 months of training. It’s quite possible that they wouldn’t have been taught anything about these kind of situations.
Ruckus
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@2:36
It is difficult to understand, but put yourself in the mom’s position. Her kids (plural) were in the building and cops were fighting the parents rather than the shooter. She runs in an active shooting situation to get her kids. She has almost zero possibility to asses the risks, and likely doesn’t give a damn, but her focus is on her kids. I would expect anyone else who ran into an active shooting to be absolutely no different. Do remember that she is braver than every damn cop in the police department that is supposed to be protecting her kids. And her.
Anyone who would do what she did would never have the focus and mindset to rescue everyone. Very few humans are built that way. None of the cops there were. And they take an oath and get paid to do exactly that.
Poe Larity
All those cops, sheriffs, dps and their big guns and brave Texans had to run to the evil federales for help.
Heidi Mom
When I worked in the Judicial Center in Harrisburg (PA state capital), we had mandatory active-shooter training. I remember the cop who taught it explaining to us that in such a situation, the first cops into the building wouldn’t be stopping to help the trapped and wounded because their objective would be, had to be, to take down the gunman. And they knew perfectly well the risk that doing so would entail for them. Seems like the training has changed.
Quiltingfool
‘@Kay: I was a teacher. I believed that parents entrusted their children to me, I was to keep them safe. When we had those “intruder drills,” I didn’t think about my life, just the lives of my students. A parent would give their life for their child. So teachers, who assume the role of a parent (to protect), do whatever they can to keep students safe, including sacrificing their lives.
I see now we have police who do not think they need to protect or keep us safe. Yet they are praised to the heavens, get immunity for their actions and are provided all sorts of resources. Teachers don’t get near that level of acclaim, no immunity and get to buy classroom materials out of pocket.
Steeplejack
@zonk84: “Borrowed from too many places to count, but clearly—should one ever find yourself in an active shooter situation, report that a senior dementia sufferer has just shoplifted something.”
debbie
‘@ Poe Larity: All belly, no fire.
debbie
‘@ Quilting Fool: They even get their own damn flag.
Suzanne
‘@debbie
This fucking insanity about doors has to stop.
I am looking at the 2021 International Building Code, Chapter 10 (Means of Egress), looking at the requirements. You can do one exit in an E occupancy building if you have fewer than 49 occupants. Three or more exits are required with an occupant load of 501 to 1000. An occupant load of over 1000 puts you at four exits (or exit access doorways).
Per Table 1017.2, in an E occupancy, the maximum allowable exit access travel distance is 250′ for a building with sprinklers and 200’ for one without.
All of this is built on a lot of science, about how hazards happen in buildings, how people panic, how much egress capacity is required. I am so sick of dumbfucks putting zero thought into this shit.
Betty Cracker
‘@Baud: I think the security guard in Buffalo was a retired cop? He was outgunned. You’re right. They’re not all cowards. Cops have acted heroically in many really horrific situations. Even in Uvalde, albeit too late, it appears cops unlocked that door and confronted and killed the deranged teen with the AR-15. Blast shield or no, that took courage.
Kay
Betty Cracker May 27, 2022 at 3:37 PM
It’s part of gun culture too, right? Strutting around with a gun makes you a tough guy. What’s “tough”? I think hearing the shooter coming down the hall and not bolting is tough, especially knowing you are leaving your own children orphans. Just amazingly admirable and brave and it doesn’t come from wanting others to submit or respect their authority- it comes from love . No one has to kiss their ass, they have no special self aggrandizing flag, in fact, we just spent the last 6 months calling all of them pedophiles. They always die in these horrors . Always.
Mike in NC
I watched a little of the press conference, which featured several hulking white guys in suits and matching white cowboy hats.
Ruckus
Ohio Mom @ 2:56
The cops know how many guns are out there and how the gun laws in some states allow anyone to carry a weapon. They deal with crazy people all the time. And they often arrive with maximum force and dress as if going into active combat, because they can be at any time, day or night.
OK all that said, why do so many cops seem to think that guns in everyone’s hands a good thing? Why do they all stand around for what, an hour when their job is to stop someone like this asshole? They don’t want to get killed? Who the hell does, those 19 kids didn’t, the teacher didn’t, that mom that ran in didn’t. You don’t, I don’t, 99.9% of the humans alive likely don’t want to die.
But – and it’s a huge round, firm, but, that is what they get trained and paid for. They work for all of us and their take oaths to enforce the law, to do what is necessary to keep the citizens of the town, county, state they work for, the people they work for, safe.
My point is that every cop there failed, they didn’t do their jobs. They might as well as all get fired for all the actual good they are capable of doing. Hell they likely should get sued down flat broke, to not even being able to eat. Sure they needed a plan but a police force in a state that thinks everyone should be armed is going to either be a death squad or chickenshits deluxe. They chose chickenshits deluxe.
Kay
Mike in NC May 27, 2022 at 3:58 PM
I understand that they’re afraid of the 18 year old with the powerful weapon- they could think about redeeming themselves by using their mighty political power to ensure fewer 18 year olds have powerful weapons. They’d be safer, we’d be safer, it’s a win/win.
debbie
‘@ Mike in NC: If I knew it wouldn’t offend him, I’d link to Lyle Lovett’s “Don’t Touch My Hat.”
Wilson Heath
I’m strongly remembering a story on NPR (maybe on Reveal?) about how a domestic violence restraining order was horrifically useless in an instance that was described. Discussing how this happened, they pointed out a fundamental reality: there really isn’t any affirmative legal duty for the police to do any of the things that people think they are there for.
Which makes giving them a blank check and a blind eye completely insane.
Kay
No longer just a US problem, either. We’re arming violent criminals in other countries too:
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/
“Mexican officials have said that a significant part of the epidemic of violence and crime that has plagued their nation in recent decades is driven by the illicit traffic of weapons from the U.S. Mexico has restrictive firearms laws, with one gun store in the entire nation and only about 50 permits issued per year. Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels, in particular, buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.
The lawsuit accuses gunmakers of marketing strategies and business practices to “design, market, distribute, and sell guns in ways they know routinely arm the drug cartels in Mexico.”
Suzanne
‘@Ruckus
“OK all that said, why do so many cops seem to think that guns in everyone’s hands a good thing?”
Because cops are overwhelmingly toxic gun nuts and that is why they are attracted to a job where they get to have guns and flex on people.
Tazj
‘@This exactly, I hope more police officers will realize it and choose to advocate for more gun control policies.
Jager
The head of uniformed security at the Pru Tower in Boston was a 35 year, retired Boston Police Sgt. He was a good guy, he told me he thought a lot of new, younger cops were assholes, he added, “it all started when they had us sew the flag on our uniforms.” He worked the early part of his career as a beat cop in Scollay Square, at the time the roughest section of the city, never drew his gun.
MaiNaem mobile
I hear this talk about hardening teachers and I think of my hs teachers. My.english teacher was a petite old lady(nothing against lil old ladies) with a helmet head of grey hair.i can only think of two maybe three of all my hs teachers who could have merely handled a gun forget about actually defending their students. Do these people even think this stuff through? Anyhow, now we know why the Uvaldes mayor was acting snippy during the presser. He probably had a good idea of what had happened. I don’t understand why the cops/SWAT team etc weren’t close and quickly.available. its a small town and the school couldn’t have been far from the sheriff’s office.
debbie
‘@ MaiNaem mobile:
I was home invaded back in 2007. My town’s far larger than Uvaldes, but I could hear a helicopter overhead while I was still on the phone with 911 after the guy took off.
debbie
Via David Hogg, quite the crowd of protestors at the NRA convention:
https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1530252617296891906?s=20&t=6H5i08kUeq10dVafrM1YNw
Chief Oshkosh
My understanding of where “Defund the Police” comes from is that we can’t get reform while the police unions exist. We can’t get rid of the police unions until the police personnel are gone. We get rid of the police personnel by simply doing away with the police department (defunding it) and simultaneously starting a new one. I believe this was done in Camden, NJ.
I’ve known and worked with public defenders and criminal defense attorneys for many years. Every single one of them has numerous stories about cops lying on the stand, usually flagrantly. In not one instance were there repercussions (other than the several instances where their clients were found not guilty due to the cops being caught lying). Not one instance of perjury charges, not one instance of any sort of reprimand. Hell, not even a single judge simply admonishing them with words into the ether when the cop made of fool of the judge by lying.
Once someone lies in a professional setting, there’s no fixing them. They have to be fired. Can’t fire them because of the unions. Can’t get rid of the unions until the police force is gone.
Hence, Defund the Police.
But agreed: it’s a really bad phrase that does not mean what it so easily appears to mean.
Bobby Thomson
Everyone’s tiptoeing around it, but fact is the Udalve PD is racist AF and weren’t about to risk their lives to save Latino kids. They’ve been trying to push the regular good guy with a gun narrative as long as they could but there are too many witnesses and too much press attention for the 911 tapes to be accidentally lost, etc. The “we thought they were dead already” explanation is the least bad alternative for them – and also transparent bullshit contradicted by other facts. I have to think at some point recordings are going to come out in addition to eyewitness reports.
glc
Police have no duty to protect the public (settled law).*
https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/
* (I am not a lawyer.)
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
Chief Oshkosh May 27, 2022 at 4:47 PM
Then let’s start using the phrase “Restart the police!”
Ruckus
Suzanne @ 4:17
Yep.
I grew up with 2 guys that became cops. One a CHP and one a deputy sheriff. I talked to the CHP guy after he retired with 30 yrs in and he hated his job at about the 20 yr mark. He said the guys coming in and the training changed, this would be early 1990s. He told me the cops you see today are not the cops of 40-60 yrs ago, not in any way, shape or form. Cops decades ago rarely pulled their guns. Now they do all the time. The deputy, I rode with him one night. Haven’t spoken to him since. He was modern cop, the idea is that the cop is always right and the perp – that’s anyone not a cop, is always wrong. He made an illegal arrest, right in front of me, and we talked about it after he’d put the guy in a cell. I told him that arrest was bullshit and I told him the judge will throw this out. He said “So what, he’s in my jail till Monday (this was Friday night).” He played cop, judge and jury. And that is wrong. But then we see the cop that killed Floyd, cop, judge, jury, executioner. That’s today’s cops, at least way too many of them.
And as GLC commented – cops have no legal obligation to act the way we all seem to think they do. So that means they are here for one actual reason, to make money for the local and state governments and to give the IMPRESSION that they are actually here to serve as a defense for the general public. That’s a TV/movie concept, not reality.
JaneE
“I know we need law enforcement” as does everyone. I don’t know what to call what we have, but it is not law enforcement, public safety, or anything else I recall the police doing when I was young.
Pretty obviously, funding them well enough to buy military hardware and MOAR GUUNNNNZ did not do the kids any good at all.
Cowardice or racism or whatever, every one of the police involved in this need to resign from the top down. Then retrain everyone and give them psych evals to see if they are capable of doing law enforcement and protecting the public. It is pretty obvious that the only thing the current Uvalde police are good for is getting (brown) children killed.
PaulB
I don’t want to be the guy criticizing police officers dealing with a situation that has the potential to kill them. I don’t know how I’d handle such a situation and I find it hard to blame people for not being heroes, even when others die as a result of their decisions.
But, here’s the thing: police unions and right-wing assholes are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, they want to be treated as through they are all heroes putting their lives on the line every day. On the other hand, as we see here, they aren’t actually doing that.
When you’re ready to be that hero, then come back to me and we can talk about respect, hazard pay, heroism, etc. Until then, you’re just a cowardly bully with a badge, an overinflated ego, and a gun that you’re too chickenshit to use other than against people who can’t fight back.
Hoodie
A lot of these cops are special ops soldier wannabes, but god forbid they actually have to do anything that might make them late for shift change. It’s a problem if you encourage them to think they’re soldiers because they are not subject to the UCMJ. The military has enough problems with rogue operators, but it’s another level of fucked up when the operator has a union rep and civil service protections. These guys should simply not be so heavily armed and, in turn, should not be expected to do the impossible (or even very difficult). Every argument about doors or the failures of cops, however, is just a distraction from our obvious and ludicrous gun problem, which has a lot of authors, including craven senators and clueless SC justices.
louc
It gets worse. Children were calling 911 from within the classroom for 40 $%^&*@ minutes while 19 cops stood out there. https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1530238057454047232?s=20&t=gh-1rTVp4ViHUIfUuDJPcg
Another Scott
Yup.
Grr…,
Scott.
.cmorenc
NO! Do not frame the issue as “defund the police”, which however correct it may be in principle is nevertheless political poison counterproductive to the key goal of reforming the broken paradigm of police as a protective community public safety agency. Wash your mouth out with soap for repeating arguably the stupidest political framing ever.
Primer Gray (formerly Yet Another Jeff)
I’m still pushing for “Unfuck the Police.”