Hand to Murphy the Trickster God, that’s an actual quote from Gohmert!
Rep Louie Gohmert on Navarro indictment: “If you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you” pic.twitter.com/8eIkkycukd
— Jason Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) June 3, 2022
Nothing short of a (possibly induced) fatal aneurysm is gonna keep Navarro from talking, and every sentence he finishes is gonna make trouble for someone in the Trump Crime Cartel. Or maybe I’m just an optimist…
… After Trump’s defeat in the 2020 election, Navarro became an early advocate for the former president’s false claims of widespread election fraud and spearheaded efforts to overturn the election. He’s been charged with two counts of contempt, each of which carries a maximum sentence of one year in prison.
The U.S. House committee investigating the Capitol insurrection subpoenaed Navarro in February and he tersely refused to comply, claiming sweeping executive privilege over his efforts. Following his appearance in court Friday afternoon, Navarro told reporters he had been arrested “getting on the plane” to Nashville and was put in handcuffs and leg irons.
“They just came with the full force of the federal government and put the hammer down trying to intimidate me,” he said, calling the Justice Department “wrong on all manner of counts.” The former Trump adviser is scheduled to be back in court on June 17 for his arraignment…
Navarro, who has been dealing with the select committee without a lawyer, publicly acknowledged receiving a grand jury subpoena related to his refusal to comply last week. He filed a lawsuit against the committee and Justice Department Tuesday, but a federal judge told him Thursday to refile it to correct a series of errors.
The select committee subpoenaed Navarro to testify in February, but he told them he would refuse to comply, citing executive privilege. The panel countered that its questions for him did not broach any possible privileges related to his White House work. Still, Navarro refused to appear. The committee held him in contempt for that decision in April, asking the Justice Department to pursue charges. The full House followed suit, adopting the panel’s recommendation…
The case will be overseen by Judge Amit Mehta, who is also presiding over two other crucial Jan. 6 cases: the seditious conspiracy trial against leaders of the Oath Keepers and a sprawling series of civil lawsuits against Trump filed by members of Congress and Capitol Police officers. Assistant U.S. Attorneys Elizabeth Aloi and Molly Gaston are handling the case for DOJ. Amanda Vaughn, the lead prosecutor in the Bannon case, is also listed among the prosecutors.
Nobody is angrier than an old white guy in a blue suit treated the way the system treats everyone else https://t.co/N0tbTbKcjy
— OnlineDefamationExpertHat (@Popehat) June 3, 2022
Methinks Jason Miller fears for his own future:
Jason Miller is outraged the Feds arrested Navarro: “They went and arrested and put him in handcuffs? I mean, this is Peter Navarro! He’s an economist. He’s a PhD. You see that he’s a very serious, very buttoned up guy, and you’re going to go throw him in handcuffs!?! pic.twitter.com/nFIItDKbPF
— Ron Filipkowski ???? (@RonFilipkowski) June 3, 2022
MSNBC eventually pulls away from Peter Navarro’s comments after he exits the courthouse following his indictment.
John Heilemann: “I am a devotee of breaking news as much as anyone but there’s only so much bug-eyed gibberish we can tolerate here…” pic.twitter.com/dwQ2itSh98
— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) June 3, 2022
Thanks, Jared!
Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Olympian Flower Portraits (Part II)
prostratedragon
Heh, Pete the Camel, as in unfiltered.
WaterGirl
He actually said that: “Rep Louie Gohmert on Navarro indictment: “If you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you.”
un-fucking-believable!
Do these people even listen to themselves?
un-fucking-believable! But I repeat myself…
jeffreyw
A commenter on another board noted a comment on the Gohmert quote; “He’s like a stupid, fascist Yogi Berra.”
WaterGirl
@jeffreyw:
I laughed out loud at that. This is now a rotating tag:
Patricia Kayden
Do Bannon next. And then Trump.
germy shoemangler
I thought you only handcuffed guys with their baggy pants falling down and their hip hop and rap!
Soprano2
Since this is an open thread I’m going to drop this bomb here, because I desperately need advice and for reasons that will become obvious I can’t just ask on Facebook.
My stepson’s boss talked to us yesterday; she is convinced that he was murdered, quite possibly by one of his roommates, for reasons I won’t go into right now. She thinks the local county cops are not investigating it the way they should (says the local Paia cops who knew John think the same), and will conclude that he died by suicide, which she insists is not possible (plus because of other things she knows). She wants us to either hire a private derective or call the FBI so they can a) put pressure on the local police to investigate better or b) open their own investigation. I have no idea whether this would work or not. Has anyone, especially anyone familiar with the legal system, got any advice or ideas for me? Sorry to dump this here, but I can’t think of anywhere else I could go for information or advice. I’ll check back on this thread later. Anyone who wants to P.M. me can get my contact info from Watergirl.
SFAW
@germy shoemangler:
What’s with the new nym/nom? Or — because my memory ain’t what it used to was — is it an old one that you’re reviving?
Gvg
I think the judge took the trouble of explaining because of all the watchers. If it was just the dipshit Navarro, he wouldn’t have needed to bother. So I don’t count that as white male privilege
Sometimes I cannot believe how stupid they are.
Soprano2
@germy shoemangler: That’s really what they think.
debbie
Each is clownier than the next.
The best way to fight these guys is with mockery. I know we all do that among ourselves, but there needs to be something more nationwide and more memorable. Maybe publish a deck of RWNJ Clown cards, each nutjob getting their own card which includes a brief description of their absurdity (like Gohmert’s “What do you mean, I can’t lie?”). It may take more than one deck, because we’d have to include that Kandiss chick from GA who is refusing to concede after receiving 3% of the vote.
SFAW
@Soprano2:
Holy shit. I don’t have any advice, but I hope someone here can help you. I hope John (Sr.) is doing OK, dealing with that new bit of info must be horrible. [ETA: Not that it wasn’t already horrible.]
germy shoemangler
(Washington Post)
This judge is certainly treating Peter well, but Navarro keeps complaining and complaining.
germy shoemangler
@SFAW:
everything old is new again
debbie
@germy shoemangler:
Why does he think he’s deserving of special treatment?
SFAW
@debbie:
“May”?
JML
Louie Gohmert has less brain power than a turnip. Dumb as a box of rocks? Rocks mock him. I’ve known sheep that could outwit him.
I’ve done a “biggest idiots in Congress” list a few times, and Gohmert is always, always on it.
germy shoemangler
@debbie:
There is a commenter here (Martin, I think?) who is personally acquainted with Navarro. Everything this commenter has said about Navarro’s personality and ego fits in with the behavior we see on the national stage.
debbie
@germy shoemangler:
All of them are like that, though. Just think of Syndey Powell. They compete only in degrees of stupidity.
germy shoemangler
@JML:
I can think of some people who are dumber than Gohmert.
The people who voted him into office.
Raven
Yea, he was an anteater too!@germy shoemangler:
Eunicecycle
@germy shoemangler: I think until he left to become Governor of Indiana, Mike Pence was considered the dumbest member of Congress by the press. Think of that: Dumbest member in a Congress that includes Louie Gohmert!
Soprano2
@SFAW: He still feels that it’s not real, which is understandable. And yeah, this makes it worse. Talking to desperate, crying people who are on Maui makes the stress level higher.
Immanentize
@Soprano2:
Ugh! I’m so sorry this is happening. Obviously without knowing more I can only give you a small answer (or questions).
First, what would be the federal/FBI angle? Is there a federal crime involved (big drug dealing, mobland activity or human trafficking?) Or is it a racially motivated situation? Generally, the FBI cannot become involved, is not interested in local events, even if a murder, because they do not have jurisdiction (unlike what the TV machine tells you).
So the idea of a private investigator is probably the right path. The best way to reach a good one is to find a local attorney that has worked with AND gone up against the local cop shop before. Hiring an attorney first is always the best way to assure a more ethical private investigation. They have more tools for getting things like police reports, autopsies, etc.
Sorry this was such a drive by but I have to be 20 minutes away in 5 minutes. I’ll try to check in later?
BC in Illinois
He’s a PhD !! I bet he can write the alphabet just off memory alone.
I mean, I only have a Masters, so I expect to be thrown to the ground and tossed into a holding cell at any time, but Navarro is a PhD! All they should have done is give him a call or send him a letter, directing him to come down to the courthouse.
You know, like a subpoena.
Baud
@Soprano2:
Jesus. No advice, but good luck.
BellyCat
@Soprano2: IANAL, but the FBI has a hotline and they can be very helpful about next steps. (Citing personal experience).
Likely your best bet is for your son’s friend to either speak with them directly or to put their thoughts in writing to you so you can share these in a call with them.
Wishing good results for your family. Tragic situation. :-(
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Soprano2: I hope some of our legal jackals can provide some advice. I can’t imagine what to do.
cope
Since OT, and not to distract from the serious shit some people in here are dealing with, Ukraine/Wales at noon eastern time today. Winner goes to the World Cup. ESPN will be showing it.
germy shoemangler
Glory b
The scariest part of all of this is that Louie Ghonert WAS A JUDGE before he ran for Congress!
BellyCat
@Soprano2: Thinking further on this, you, or your attorney, can file a complaint with the local and/or state DA that you suspect a crime may have been committed. Would have to clearly detail the concerns and reasoning.
Glory b
@Soprano2: I agree that you should contact a local attorney who does criminal law. Get a referral for a private investigator. Is it possible to speak to a local journalist who might look into it? Maybe someone looking to make a name for themselves? That’s how the Penn State/Joe Paterno thing started, and we know what happened and how many heads rolled over that.
Depending on your state’s laws and jurisdiction the Attorney General’s office might be a place to contact. This isn’t something the FBI can handle, unless maybe there’s a civil rights angle.
Best of luck with this. It must be horrible.
Elizabelle
It is painful that shabby people such as Mr. Navarro were pulling down six-figure government salaries. Thousands of them, no?
They stole from us.
Danielx
@Eunicecycle:
Trump was correct in that he saved Pence’s political career by offering him the vp slot, as Pence was going to get his ass handed to him in the next gubernatorial election for being an all-round incompetent dipshit. Would have made him a one term Republican governor in Indiana, which is not an easy thing to accomplish.
Glory b
@BellyCat: Yes, most DAs offices have a process for filing private complaints, although those are usually neighbor complaints.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2: You’ve gotten really good advice from from Immanetize (of course) and Glory b — that’s an interesting tack, on the independent journalist as well.
Find a very good attorney, who will work with a very good private investigator.
I am so sorry your family has suffered this loss.
ETA: at a minimum, can you demand an autopsy, and to speed it up? Suspect they will be doing one anyway, with an unexplained death, but that will be very important. There are coroner’s department investigators: get in touch with them, as well.
Soprano2
@Immanentize: Thx. He was reported as a missing person, but that never appeared anywhere I can find. Roomie who is the boss’ suspect claims John was acting crazy and said he paid someone to kill him (I have this in a text). Possibility there’s a native vs. White angle. I think she’s afraid the police have decided John overdosed, so they aren’t investigating any other possibilities. She said John told several people he was scared of this guy, and that the suspect is bipolar and seems to have multiple personslities (sounds like a troubled person to me). The place where John worked fired the suspect for cause. John got him that job.
germy shoemangler
@Elizabelle:
Remember when the former guy and staff moved out of the White House? Photo after photo of people like Navarro carrying stuff out. Paintings, framed photos, sculptures, etc.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2: You could also try the local daily newspaper. That sounds like a tragic and interesting story to cover, with a lot of angles. Perhaps start with the police reporter(s).
Elizabelle
@germy shoemangler: Happily, had forgotten that. But yes. That did happen.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: They already did an autopsy to determine cause of death. Another thing she said was that his body was found in the sugar cane fields, but he was terrified of that place because they were involved in a murder trial he testified in. If NotMax sees this he can probably figure out who my stepson is from that trial, it was quite a lurid affair. A woman was murdered, they never found her body but her boyfriend was convicted.
NotMax
‘@Soprano2
Any way to find out (possibly from the employer?) if he had a Facebook or Twitter or other such digitally based account?
Alison Rose
“Shame on Kevin McCarthy.”
Well gee. I agree with the sentiment, Peter, but for vastly different reasons.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2:
Did the autopsy result in a cause of death? Or is it pending?
burnspbesq
I have been a big advocate for folks understanding the constraints that Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure places on DOJ in terms of what it can say about ongoing grand jury investigations, but I really think we need some transparency about the decision not to prosecute Meadows for contempt of Congress.
Salty Sam
I totally get all the incredulity about Navarro’s attitude, but I’ve seen this sort of thing in my step-father for decades. Toxic level white privilege. It’s ugly.
satby
@NotMax: Investigators can find that stuff easily. He was a witness in a murder trial and is now deceased himself under undetermined causes (even if it was an OD, was it self-administered?).
@Soprano2: I would follow Immanentize and Glory b’s very good advice, if the local DA won’t listen get a private criminal attorney (they have their own investigators they use too). I’d start with whoever the DA was who was prosecutor in the trial your son was his/ her witness. There might be a link or it could have been retaliation for the testimony.
Mike in NC
Navarro’s got a wrinkled face like a prune left out in the sun for too long. Only 72 years old, but he looks 112. He’ll probably live as long as Kissinger (who just turned 99). Hopefully he will die in prison, though, along with several other members of the Trump Crime Family.
Barbara
@Soprano2: I haven’t read the other comments but I believe that before hiring a detective I would try to make sure that a competent medical examination has been performed, and talk to the pathologist, who may have greater insight about plausibility of other scenarios.
ETA: Imm’s comment about going through local attorney is a good suggestion, even for a private medical examiner if it comes to that.
QuiltingFool
@Soprano2: I didn’t get the chance to tell you how sorry I am for your loss. My condolences to you and your husband.
apocalipstick
@Glory b: He was a Texas judge, which is an executive position. Lina Hidalgo is the judge of Harris County. It’s a weird Texas thing, but Gohmert was that type of judge.
Villago Delenda Est
Thoughts and prayers.
Villago Delenda Est
Only the good die young.
bbleh
@germy shoemangler: Or people who are likely to be their associates or relatives, if you take my meaning.
Searcher
I really feel for the writers of The Onion these days, trying to write parodies of modern Republicans.
WeimarGerman
As this is an open thread and I needed to rant somewhere, TPM had an article on June 3rd about DeathSantis vetoing funding for Tampa Bay Rays stadium.
The thing that caught my eye the most is :
I guess she hit send before finishing the tweet with ” That only happens for Rethuglican corporations.”
Ken
I misread (?) that as “hemorrhoid”.
zhena gogolia
@Soprano2: Would it do you any good to pursue this?
MagdaInBlack
I’m just in awe of these people. So much self regard, so little self awareness. Must be sweet to be so privileged.
narya
@Soprano2: Maybe reach out to Popehat via DM? I’m actually serious: he will occasionally put out the Popehat signal.
mrmoshpotato
Oh shit! How dare they?! It’s like they treated him like a criminal!
patrick II
@WaterGirl:
As a Yogi Berra fan, I will say Yogi doesn’t deserve that. He was too nice of a guy. Plus his malapropisms often made a kind of sense, which is why they are so funny. Yoga was uneducated , Gohmert is deathly stupid (and mean).
de
@Soprano2: Maybe start with the local press to put pressure on the police through reporting on the case.
Soprano2
@NotMax: I already know he didn’t have any of that. He was even concerned if too many people had his ph# when he had one. I’ve confirmed with several people that he hasn’t had a cell phone since September, which is why we hadn’t heard from him since then.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: It’s pending; the officer said it would be a couple of weeks before they get the results.
Another Scott
@germy shoemangler: It’s another day ending in “y”. What else are their media people going to say?
Something something facts something something law something something pound the table.
Looking forward to the January 6 public hearings starting soon.
Cheers,
Scott.
Soprano2
@QuiltingFool: Thanks. We’re still in shock, honestly.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
They think they don’t get the privilege they deserve. Which is because of their level of self regard. They don’t lack self awareness, they lack a rational point of reference and understanding of their insane level of self regard. The street version of this is – they think their shit doesn’t stink, never has, never will.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: That’s a good question. It’s why I’m asking for advice. I also think I need to communicate with the police some more. I’m going to see if I can get an email for the officer I talked to, so I can ask more about the investigation in written form.
brantl
@SFAW: I suspect the best way is to get in contact with press local to the jurisdiction, find a journalist with some testicular fortitude, and spill your guts.
brantl
@Soprano2: I suspect the best way is to get in contact with press local to the jurisdiction, find a journalist with some testicular fortitude, and spill your guts.
(Replied previously to the wrong comment, sorry.)
Another Scott
@Soprano2: It’s a tragic situation that you’re going through. I’m sorry.
You need local people you can trust. Start with a good local lawyer and investigator. It may take a while to know what to do next. There may never be any clear answers, and even if there are there may never be a clear way forward. :-(
Best wishes,
Scott.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: If this was a murder, there is a social good involved, besides personal interests.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: Yes, but that’s what the police are for.
I speak as the close relative of a murder victim. I know some people get obsessed and have to be involved in every aspect of the case, and that’s how they honor the dead. I don’t happen to be that kind of person. I’m wondering what would be best for Soprano and her husband, who are not, after all, in the same state, and for whom pursuing this could be a large expenditure of money and effort.
ETA: If this had happened in their own town or even their own state, I’d feel differently about their doing a little investigating. This, however, looks really daunting, and the evidence they have to go on is rather slight.
StringOnAStick
@Soprano2: Any idea why he was so concerned about people having his phone # that he got rid of his phone? That sounds like he was scared of someone, perhaps related to his testimony in that murder trial. The other details you shared would make just about anyone suspect foul play.
zhena gogolia
I also worry that this is turning into a kind of true-crime podcast, but that’s not, I think, what Soprano2 was asking for. But I’ve said my say and will now bow out.
TriassicSands
He’s been charged with two counts of contempt, each of which carries a maximum sentence of
one year in prisontwenty minutes on Fox News.Accountability? Not in these United States.
A deck of thousands of cards? How could such a deck be limited?
JanieM
@TriassicSands:
Instead of a single, static deck, they could be like baseball cards. There would be no end to them!
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
I agree with you, FWIW. Leave it to the experts.
debbie
@TriassicSands:
Multiple series!
TriassicSands
@germy shoemangler:
Something that seems to be routinely overlooked. The real problem isn’t Trump or McConnell or any of the other republican crooks. I’s the people who vote for them. When the insurrection/civil war comes, it will be those voters who are gunning down their fellow citizens.
Try to imagine the intellectual capacity of someone who would vote for Herschel Walker or Perjury Taylor Greene. Frightening.
Walker says he has twelve separate and distinct personalities, some of which are capable of extremely bad behavior including violence.
TriassicSands
@debbie:
Oh, debbie, you’re going to be rich beyond your wildest dreams
TriassicSands
@JanieM:
Bubble gum?
SFAW
@WeimarGerman: Speaking of DeathSantis, I received the following e-mail from him (so to speak, it’s actually from “American Liberty News” or some such):
I don’t know if it sounded better in the original German.I hope that fucking fascist ends up in jail, or exiled to be bottom of the Marianas Trench, or worse.
Uncle Cosmo
@germy shoemangler: Navarro reminds me of the classic definition of an economist:
I worked for an office of PhD economists for almost 5 years. Most of them were decent folk, but there were a few terminally arrogant arseholes like my immediate supervisor, who thought he was doG’s gift to higher mathematics but didn’t even know the definitions of the terms he slung around.
WaterGirl
@patrick II: You convinced me. Deleted.
WeimarGerman
@SFAW:
Watching Stranger Things’ new season with my teenager, this is so ‘upside down’ – it’s gaslighting as a super power.
JanieM
@TriassicSands:
Why not? :-)
Although I have the vague impression that even baseball cards don’t come with bubblegum anymore. But then again, I’m old, my baseball card days are many decades behind me.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: That’s why I’m asking for advice. I have no idea whether this is worth pursuing or not, but I’ve been told disturbing things by people I trust.
Soprano2
@StringOnAStick: Not really, but Maui is expensive. It wasn’t unusual for him to turn his phone off for a week or so because he couldn’t pay the bill. It could be as simple as money problems.
WeimarGerman
@Soprano2: So sorry for you and your family. This is horrible.
JaneE
They must grow these guys in a genuine petri dish. There is no other explanation for someone being so totally ignorant of the way the world works.
Distinguished professor can’t be arrested? Tell that to Henry Louis Gates.
No need to stop him from getting on a plane and leaving town when there is an arrest warrant out for him? He should be charged with attempting to flee.
Lawyers know better than to go pro se. What seems reasonable and logical and just is not necessarily the way the law reads. That is true even when the person making that judgement is not a lunatic.
Too bad the penalty is only a year max.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: Honestly I’m just asking people I’ve come to know and trust what they think. I am concerned that the police might be making the assumption that this is just another drug overdose death, and won’t look at any other possibility. I don’t know if this is normal, but I was told that the county police wouldn’t talk to people who said they had information about the situation, and that the local police in Paia are concerned that the investigation done by the Maui County police won’t be good or thorough. It is made a lot harder by the distance. Everything I’ve heard is circumstantial, but it’s concerning enough for me to ask more questions. (Not a big fan of true crime, either.)
zhena gogolia
@Soprano2: It’s really up to you and your husband whether you want to pursue it. I guess all I’m saying is, if you decide to let it rest, there is nothing reprehensible about that. Nor is there anything reprehensible about taking some of the steps recommended by Imm and others here. Just don’t feel guilty whatever you do.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: I respect your personal experience here. I would observe that most murders are clearly murders and receive the proper attention from police. Some are not, and can slip by the authorities. Given the connection with a prior murder trial I would expect that this unexplained death will be looked into critically by police, but I would also want to be sure that it is.
Villago Delenda Est
Sorry, Charlie, but “faith” and “reason” are contradictory. And SFAW, I totally agree with you about the fascist pig that is DeathSentence.
TriassicSands
Ahem. Tsk. Tsk. That is “peach tree dish.”
Another Scott
@Soprano2: It’s a tough situation.
I’ve told this story before: My mother (multiple stroke victim, hypertension, etc.) ended up in the hospital in Ohio. They weren’t able to stabilize her before she died. There was a mistake made in her treatment – she was given some drug 2x when she should have only been given it once. There was some question as to whether it was a contributing cause to her death, so an autopsy was ordered. Because of the opiod/opiate epidemic, and all the young people dying (young people pretty much automatically get an autopsy), there was a backlog at the coroner’s office. It took about 6 weeks for it to be completed. (The mistake didn’t contribute to her death.)
Obviously things are different in this case, but be prepared for a slow process even if you find people who are willing to help. There’s only so much you can do even if you were there (let alone being thousands of miles away) because of the various constraints that even people of good will have to work under. It’s frustrating, and worse.
Hang in there, and know that we’re hoping for the best.
Take care,
Scott.
NotMax
‘@Soprano2
Now confused. There is no municipal government on Maui below the county level. No Paia police, just Maui police.
Dunno if it’s an avenue you wish to pursue so far as seeking recommendations for local contacts/assistance, but here are the names and office phones for the state legislators representing Paia.
House District 13: Linda Clark 808-586-6790
Senate District 7: Lynn DeCoite 808-587-7225
State legislature has adjourned but phones should still be active.
Soprano2
@NotMax: Thanks for the info, I’m just repeating what she said. Maybe she means officers who live in Paia who knew my stepson. I lived in a one horse town, but even we had a local cop.
cain
@patrick II: I would have used yogi bear – which would have made Gohmert’s stupidity even more dumb.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, there’s a party across the pond.
Understanding that all photos and videos are lies, still, …
Wow.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
More good news that doesn’t fit the thread upstairs – BlueVirginia.US:
1000% is probably too low, given all the damage these things have done. :-(
Beyer is my rep. He’s a good, thoughtful guy who is always looking for ways to make things better given all the real-world constraints.
Cheers,
Scott.
Fancycwabs
Think what sort of good information they could get if the just arrested Trump and held him for a couple days.
Another Scott
Wonkette has more on the Utah prosecutor who pre-emptively announced that he is not a cannibal.
A good read.
Cheers,
Scott.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@JanieM:
@TriassicSands:
@debbie:
Magic: The Gathering, but for RWNJ? I know people with multiple boxes of these cards…