Axon, the company that developed the Taser, announced it was pausing plans to develop a stun-gun-equipped drone that it said could be used to prevent mass shootings. Nine members of its ethics board resigned after the company announced the proposal. https://t.co/aivVdt3J0M
— The New York Times (@nytimes) June 6, 2022
Nobody respects all-American entrepreneurship any more! From an earlier AP article:
… In an interview with The Associated Press, Axon founder and CEO Rick Smith said he felt compelled to make the idea public after the mass shooting at an Uvalde, Texas elementary school, saying he was “catastrophically disappointed” in the response by police who didn’t move in to kill the suspect for more than an hour…
“This is an idea that should get into the public’s consciousness while our minds are open to it and I felt if I wait another six months, the world is going to change and people are going to forget this pain and we’re going to see a shift in sentiments where people are going to focus a lot more on what could go wrong, rather than the pain of this problem we need to solve,” he said.
Axon’s stock price rose with the news. But the announcement angered members of the ethics board…
“This particular idea is crackpot,” said Barry Friedman, a New York University law professor who sits on the Axon AI Ethics Board. “Drones can’t fly through closed doors. The physical properties of the universe still hold. So unless you have a drone in every single classroom in America, which seems insane, the idea just isn’t going to work.”…
“We begged the company not to do it,” Friedman said of the company’s announcement. “It was unnecessary and shameful.” …
Board members who spoke with The Associated Press said they were taken aback by the school drone proposal — which they got notice of only earlier this week — and cobbled together a unanimous statement of concern that described Axon’s decision as “deeply regrettable.” The company tweeted out the board’s dissent shortly after its own statement Thursday announcement…
On Friday in an “Ask Me Anything” chat on the online forum Reddit. Smith acknowledged that “drones in schools can sound nuts” but went on to answer detailed questions about them. They could travel through school vents, he said, and perch on doors and walls near ceilings. It could be a “good thing” if a gunman tried to shoot one down because it would distract from trying to kill people.
“We’re doing this because we care,” Smith said. “We’re a business so ultimately we have to find a financial model that works, but at the end of the day we’ve been successful because our mission drives our business and we solve problems we care about,” he added.
Smith told a Reddit user that Axon was “absolutely not” trying to capitalize on recent tragedies to attract investors. He noted the advisory board’s disagreements but said the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas — and what he described as misguided proposals to arm teachers with guns — compelled him to go public with the drone idea to field a “far broader array of voices.”
I’m sure ‘personal protection taser drones’ would be very exciting to people who think they need AR-15s. At least until the ‘sharks with laser beams on their heads’ and ‘guard dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths’ prototypes become available.
Political biases that are getting noticed, more and more…
“… while only 28 percent of the general population thinks we have to accept mass gun murder as part of living in a free society, 44 percent of Republicans do.”
Almost half of GOP accept mass gun murder.
Almost half of GOP accept mass gun murder.
https://t.co/ba15WReEkq— read, think, read some more (@ReadThinkBeGood) June 6, 2022
Sad trombone coda:
Supreme Court declines appeal over law licenses from St. Louis couple who waved guns at protest https://t.co/6vSccBtXv0 via @usatoday
— Maureen Groppe (@mgroppe) June 6, 2022
debbie
So, say a drone manages to tase a shooter. The shooter will flop around while he’s being electrocuted. The gun could be wildly firing. How many children will die from that?
Thank god for ethics boards.
Baud
The only shocking thing is that this guy is not Elon Musk.
Raoul Paste
It’s unclear how these drones protect a person in a Sharknado
wenchacha
When will my son and his wife decide that they can give their child a safer life if they move to Japan. There would be huge trade-offs, especially for my daughter-in-law. But how can parents bear to send their children off to school each day?
Another Scott
Needs more eagles. (0:15)
But then there’d be a pterodactyl gap. Best to nip this in the bud.
Cheers,
Scott.
PaulB
“Sir, you have a broken leg but we think it’s too expensive to fix it, so here’s a wheelchair for you, along with a healthy helping of thoughts and prayers. Have a nice day!”
prostratedragon
Good to know that common sense as well as decency aren’t dead yet, isn’t it?
Was just catching up on the morning thread and noticed a question from Kay that I don’t think was answered explicitly. It’s an eye-opener:
One billion dollars divided equally among the 435 Congressional districts would give each district $2,298,851. There are at least 25 Americans who could each fork that over, even annually, and under present tax rules remain filthy rich with no special effort.
JaneE
There are already plenty of drones that could be repurposed. Whether or not any could be used or modified to be acceptably safe for the hostages is the problem. Whether or not any of them would be more useful and effective than existing options is another question.
Pitting a non-lethal weapon against a shooter with kids as hostages? You better make sure that that thing can take him out on one try.
If the guy is alone shooting from his balcony or a clock tower, it is certainly worth a try, or two or three, if only for the distraction. Otherwise …
Jeffro
I’m not even, not for one second, going to try and entertain the ins and outs and pros and cons of taser-equipped drones in schools (or anywhere else, for that matter). Very simple, low-cost, life-saving solutions to America’s multifaceted gun problem already exist.
Spanky
How can we get the press to tout my plan, which is to arm teachers with squirt guns filled with ether. One squirt and the shooter is on the floor. What could go wrong?
Teachers may also find it useful for the occasional unruly kid. And at nap time.
Matt McIrvin
I heard OCP is gonna have ED-209’s stairs issue licked in the next quarter.
dmsilev
Hypothetically-non-lethal drones (just like Tasers…) with some level of autonomy hiding in the ventilation ducts. What could possibly go wrong?
Also, does Dronemaster there understand that most ventilation systems have filters and stuff like that?
Tony Jay
@prostratedragon:
That is a very good question, framed very well.
When I think of billionaires, the real billionaires, the ones with huge, vast, unplumbable reservoirs of endless wealth that they use, not to do amazing things, but to twist the fabric of civilisation so that more and more of its money tumbles into their coffers, I don’t see ‘people’.
I see dragons.
Wagnerian dragons. Fafnir and his hoard of cursed rhinegold. Curled up and restless on their beds of uncountable coins, jealous of what they have and ever hungry for more.
Monsters, really. And they should be treated as such.
Almost Retired
Fine, if we are going to mock entrepreneurs who are trying to address this issue, we’re going to discourage the guy who wants to modify the roomba to shoot lethal lasers at armed gunmen. Or at the very least, trip them. And then where are we?
Tony G
huh. Electronics stores have been selling personal drones “for entertainment purposes” for years now. How long will it take before an enterprising youngster customizes his drone with an AR-15 attachment?
Baud
@Almost Retired:
I would watch Roomba vs. Drones.
schrodingers_cat
I wanted to share a beautiful piece of music I heard this morning, from the 2022 film, Me Vasantrao (I Vasantrao) sung Rahul Deshpande (who is Vasantrao’s grandson, who is playing is grandfather in the movie.)
Dr. Vasantrao Despande was a musician, composer, singer, worked mainly in Marathi theater and movies.
Delk
Yeah, someone is going to have the skills to fly a drone through air vents. Make that someone under massive stress with chaos all around.
JPL
@Almost Retired: That is definitely gonna be a thing.
SpaceUnit
They buried the lede in this story: In 2022 a US corporation still has an ethics board.
Mallard Filmore
Will these drones hook up with the internet for their control? Probably not, radio is more likely. even so, someone will drive around schools looking for unsecured drones he can capture.
Roger Moore
@Delk:
The theoretical advantage of drones is that they’re less stressful because the operator doesn’t have to be there in person. They can be far enough away they’re safe from harm and the only danger is to the drone.
RSA
Fortunately, we still have a functioning government.
Ohio Mom
@SpaceUnit: Tasers have turned out to be somewhat more lethal than they were advertised, in part because police misuse them. They aren’t idiot-proof and too many police are idiots
So I am wondering what the ethics board was doing all along. Window dressing I guess. But apparently even they have limits. Good for them.
Gvg
I think drones are still pretty noisy, thus not suitable. Also I have not been favorably impressed with cops use of tasers, so I really don’t want to give them flying tasers. I think they would soon be using them to attack anyone they perceive as disrespectful.
Mr. CEO is an idiot.
Baud
@RSA:
Blatant disregard of the Framers’ original intent to constitutionally protect armed drones.
Suzanne
OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE THIS ISN’T DIE HARD AND YOU ARE NOT BRUCE WILLIS.
Baud
@Suzanne:
“Hey, Suzanne, client called. Wants to enlarge the vents so drones can fly in them. Can I get the new blueprints by tomorrow? Thanks, champ.”
Ohio Mom
I can kinda see this from the taser company’s point of view. They’ve saturated the market and now they need a new product line. Their next idea isn’t going to be any better than this one though.
Villago Delenda Est
Infinitely more economical to have a buyback program for all military grade weaponry.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tony Jay: I could not agree with you more on this point.
different-church-lady
Now look, just hear me out on this… a small tactical thermonuclear device in every classroom. A very small one, certainly, and each teacher gets lots of training, of course…
different-church-lady
@Almost Retired:
Wait, they don’t already do that?
different-church-lady
@Mallard Filmore: pft… the AI algorithm is gonna handle the whole thing.
different-church-lady
@Suzanne: Hell, even Bruce Willis isn’t Bruce Willis.
Mike S
I think the fact that the Supremes didn’t release their gun permit decision today is further evidence that they plan on making the NY law unconstitutional to flood us with even more insane people with guns.
And don’t get me started on the 6/3 ruling that says being innocent doesn’t mean you can’t be executed for the murder you are innocent of.
West of the Cascades
The ethics board has just woken up to the management’s new business plan!
Suzanne
@Baud: There’s dampers, VAV boxes, filters, and diffusers in there. For fuck’s sake. This is just so fucking stupid. Like, I-wonder-if-this-guy-has-ever-talked-to-anyone-who’s-built-a-building-before-opening-his-damn-fool-mouth stupid.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Pretty sure he’s more I’ve-seen-how-thieves-do-it-in-the-movies stupid.
Suzanne
This reminds me of the time my aunt said that an MRI would read your mind.
Tony G
@Almost Retired: I was listening to Nice Polite Republicans (NPR) this evening, and one news story was interesting to me because it illustrates just how bankrupt the ideology of the Republican Party is at this point. It was a typical “both sides” story, talking about how New York State is proposing more strict gun-control legislation while Tennessee is taking the alternative approach of “transforming. schools into hard targets”. I was legitimately curious to see what hare-brained ideas the Tennessee governor had, and how it would be paid for. In reality it was … nothing. Vaporware. Some vague language about “encouraging school districts to make it more difficult for shooters”. No concrete plans. No funding. Just empty words. Given the level of stupidity of the Republican base (which, in Tennessee, has a big overlap with the idiotic evangelicals) there really is no reason for the party to even go through the motion of making concrete proposals. The base has allowed themselves to be trained to obey when even the simplest slogans are repeated. There is no reason for the party to be logical or coherent, because their base is not capable of logical, coherent thought.
Suzanne
How do I get rich? That guy’s rich, and he’s stupid. Why haven’t I figured out how to get rich?!
Tony G
@different-church-lady: That’s right. These people are dumb enough to believe that pampered actors portraying tough guys, are actual tough guys.
Spanky
@Suzanne: Because you’re not stupid?
Actually, I think it’s the sociopathy that accompanies the stupid that allows folks to get rich.
Roger Moore
@Suzanne:
He’s not stupid, he’s ignorant. He’s devoted all his mental energy to how to make as much money as possible, so none is left to learn stuff like how ventilation works.
Tony G
@Tony G: Duckspeak, as Orwell predicted 74 years ago.
Redshift
@Tony G:
Fortunately, the “for entertainment purposes” drones can’t carry anywhere near that much weight. It’d require a professional drone choosing about $6000.
Villago Delenda Est
@Spanky: DING DING DING DING DING. Just look at TFG attempting to evict people out of their rent-controlled apartments.
Villago Delenda Est
@Redshift: I can hear Wolf Blitzer asking about this now, and his on-air guest mumbling about weight ratios.
Roger Moore
@Tony G:
They definitely believe in performance over substance. If you asked them who was a bigger war hero, John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart, I’d bet at least 99% of them would pick the guy who never served but made a ton of tough guy movies over the guy with the “aw shucks” reputation who retired as a Brigadier General. They genuinely seem to think that big talk makes up for lack of action.
Calouste
@Roger Moore:
Because they’re all lack of action themselves. Some of them might even do big talk. People are attracted to extremism and discrimination because they are incompetent and lazy and that’s the only way they can “win”.
RaflW
We really are hurtling towards the future I read about as a young adult. And I don’t like that it’s not science fiction any more.
Ken
You’re being held back by your ethics. You need to outsource those to a board.
oatler
Drone-tasers will happen if the police union wants them.
debbie
@Roger Moore:
Twenty-first century version of three card monte.
NotMax
The new 3 Rs.
Reading, ‘riting and reconnaissance.
//
prostratedragon
@Tony Jay: Good analogy. My prostration has layers and nuances to it. but at bottom is acceptance that guidance, let’s say, is needed. One of the biggest challenges with that comes from those who refuse to accept that need.
James E Powell
@Suzanne:
I ask myself this quite often. I imagine the answer is that I was not born rich. Or maybe I’m more stupid than he is.
David ☘The Establishment☘ Koch
Don’t tase me
brodrone!kalakal
@Roger Moore: Try showing them a picture of Audie Murphy. Exploding head city
Ken
Needs more Asimovian robots.
Though if such were ever developed, we’d be in a huge heap of trouble. As Asimov noted in his later novels, the First Law combined with ten seconds study of human history is going to lead to a robot takeover, strictly for humanity’s own good.
(I rather like the summary from this review of Colossus: The Forbin Project: “Their job is to keep their human charges safe from war, and they see — as anyone would, if they seriously thought about it — that the fastest, easiest, most efficient means to this end is totalitarian absolutism on a global scale.” And of course there’s an XKCD.)
Peale
I know that batteries have improved greatly, but I’m imagining a drone small enough to fit through the air ducts delivering a jolt similar to licking a 9 volt battery.
BruceJ
The Ethics Committee Sure 9 resigned, were they the only ones left?
Suzanne
Why don’t we just put all the drones in a fire hose and hook it up to a hydrant and spray them all at a shooter?
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@schrodingers_cat: Beautiful.
Matt McIrvin
@BruceJ: The taser drones got the remaining ones.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: My seven year old told me about this yesterday: “If robbers come into your house, they usually come through the vents.”
Really makes me think of that scene in The Boondock Saints, which is still the best “sneaking through the vents” scene I’ve ever seen.
HinTN
@Tony G: And we elect perfect exemplars of that syndrome. Both Senators are execrable at best (Mad Marsha is worse) and Governor Lee is a totally empty suit. Then there’s my Congresscritter, Dr DesJarlais.
Brachiator
Weponized drones, probably a stupid idea. Hardened schools and buildings is an extremely stupid idea. We need to get rid of guns.
That said, I have no problem with companies researching ways to use drones. Including the use of tasers.
I am not crazy about the idea of permanently on cameras in school classrooms.
But consider. If a small drone might be useful in a classroom or in a hallway I am for it. How is that different from a robot or other device used to get close to a suspected bomb?
Not too long ago, teachers and some parents did not want kids to have phones with them while in a classroom. And now, recently we hear about traumatized and frightened kids calling their parents while trapped in a classroom with a maniac.
I would rather have a drone flying around than a child possibly revealing their hiding spot to an idiot with a gun while trying to call home.
Brachiator
@Ken:
Asimov’s Laws of robotics are utter nonsense and yet I know people in the tech industry who believe that they can be true or should be true in the future.
Most of these people were needs who read a lot of science fiction as a kid. Same as me.
But in talking with them some seem to half believe that it would be cool to bring to life the fantasy they used to read about.
J R in WV
@SpaceUnit:
I’ll fix this for you: “… a US corporation still had an ethics board.”
the pollyanna from hell
@schrodingers_cat: Wildly unfamiliar idiom expands my understanding of how to build non-verbal metaphors. Thanks again for your recommendation of the Rang Barse, which became similarly useful in retrospect.
evodevo
@MisterForkbeard: Well, he wasn’t all wrong LOL – my niece’s husband works for the DOD in Naples Italy, and the local urban legend concerned a house that was robbed one night by thieves who pumped anesthetic gas into their ventilation system, and then entered the house and cleaned them out…