U.S. Capitol assault hearings to open with injured police officer and filmmaker https://t.co/5myzu5s5Ur pic.twitter.com/ra6hSArvMN
— Reuters (@Reuters) June 8, 2022
A police officer hurt by Donald Trump supporters trying to overturn his election defeat and a filmmaker who recorded some leaders of the U.S. Capitol riot will be among the first witnesses when hearings into the assault begin on Thursday, organizers said.
The Democratic-led U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee will attempt to reverse Republican efforts to downplay or deny the violence on Jan. 6, 2021, with five months to go until Nov. 8 midterm elections that will determine which party controls Congress for the next two years…
U.S. Capitol Officer Caroline Edwards, who sustained a traumatic brain injury that has so far prevented her from returning to her previous duties, and Nick Quested, a filmmaker who has captured footage of the right-wing group Proud Boys and documented events that morning, are due to appear.
Five further hearings are expected in the next two weeks.
Four people died the day of the attack, one fatally shot by police and the others of natural causes. Four police officers later took their own lives and more than 100 were injured.
Jan 6 was not a protest. It was an attempt to undo a Democratic election so that a coalition of criminals and fascists could pillage the country and conduct ethnic and religious purges.
Republicans pose every bit the threat to liberty as Stalinists, Maoists, and Nazis.
— Alex Wild (@Myrmecos) June 7, 2022
Excellent refresher — lots of important details here:
More than 800 people have been charged in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol, which left officers bloodied and sent lawmakers into hiding.
Here's a look at who's been charged, who's been convicted and what the punishments have been.https://t.co/e0dNG8C7mu
— The Associated Press (@AP) June 7, 2022
COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Tuesday / Wednesday, June 7-8
Baud
Some things are worth doing even if they have no effect.
debbie
@Baud:
There’s no way this will have no effect. There’s evidence and testimony up the wazoo.
NotMax
Way, way OT, but it is Open Thread.
Harbinger of gluts begetting bargains? Maybe yes, maybe no.
smedley the uncertain
@debbie: wazoo =/= Memory hole?
germy shoemangler
debbie
@smedley the uncertain:
They have evidence and testimony to spare. Much, much more than is needed to make their case.
Matt
LOL @ Dana Houle – celebrating that revealing that the entire Republican party tried to destroy representative democracy might shave a couple points off their margins.
Kay
I love how conservatives love all police EXCEPT the Capitol police. They hate them.
Kay
I (actually) love hearings so I will watch. But I also watch debates so that makes me a weirdo, I know.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I guess that’s how I feel. The second impeachment laid out a very convincing case, and no one paid any attention.
Both impeachments, of course, but the second one told this story in great detail.
Bill K
I just hope they drag this out until November. Voters have short memories, and if the hearings end in August it will be forgotten by voting day.
p.a.
Asking for positive thoughts for my girlfriend’s son: 2nd operation today for an aggressive sarcoma. He’s come to terms that if he has 5 more years he’ll be very fortunate, but it could be much less. When they open him up today they will know. Onc thinks the scans look good (relatively speaking), surgeon not optimistic. Dana Farber, so that’s a plus.
zhena gogolia
@p.a.: Oh, I will be thinking of you. How agonizing.
NotMax
‘@debbie
Effect upon whom? That pernicious 27% (maybe more) will immediately dismiss it as partisan targeting, selective exaggeration or sensationalist posturing.
Baud
@p.a.:
Major Major Major Major
@p.a.:
cliosfanboy
@Kay: and even the capitol police who testified have been attacked by their fellow capitol police colleagues!!!
Kay
@Bill K:
I think there’s a kind of cumulative effect that Democrats don’t pay enough attention to. People (IMO) don’t process things as a series of unconnected events- they put them into patterns, stories. Democrats should want to show a pattern because people also use patterns to predict.
So in something like a “gaffe” by the candidate, the “gaffe” wasn’t the discrete event that turned the tide negative- people put it into some larger story they were already forming or at least open to.
germy shoemangler
@Kay:
Me, too. I enjoy watching hearings and I tune in for debates.
The testimony of some of the Capitol police about the violence they endured and witnessed on Jan. 6 (that particular hearing feels like a million years ago) was so dramatic and moving. I couldn’t understand when people said “Nah, I ain’t gonna watch.”
I felt like they made the effort to show up and testify, I should make the effort to watch and listen.
narya
@zhena gogolia: I think that the impeachments were effectively countered with fog and misdirection, and it was too soon to be able to show the connections between what TFG was doing and the attack on the Capitol. I think this is going to be an avalanche of evidence. Also, the impeachment was bound by rules that will not apply here–the audience is the public, much more than the Senate. I am not predicting that it will matter, but as you and Baud note, some things are worth doing regardless. I will be camping, of all things, but am going to try to either record it or listen to it.
JPL
@p.a.: Thinking of you, your girlfriend and her son.
Baud
A lot of people got mad at the NYT for emphasizing the horse race aspect of these hearings. But that’s what the OP tweets are doing too.
UncleEbeneezer
@Kay: They love police so long as they uphold the racial/class hierarchy and bust heads. Any cop who doesn’t do that or who dares to whistle-blow or advocate for meaningful reform etc., not so much. Hell, they probably hate any cop who admits to being a Biden voter.
germy shoemangler
The insurrectionists trampled one of their own to death.
Kay
@germy shoemangler:
I learn a lot from debates! Not so much about “policy” but about them as people. They go on so long they’re literally forced to improvise.
Biden was actually impressive in the debates. Not for speedy comebacks or smackdowns but because he has A LOT of substantive background in a lot and he can just pull it up. You can’t fake that. It’s easily available to him because he really knows it.
In the exchange with Harris about bussing he was 100% accurate (and it’s complicated) and he was just winging it.
JPL
Peter Baker is helping rehabilitate Jared and Ivanka. Maybe they are paying him, so they can return to NYC at some point. Here’s a sweet article about Ivanka and the helpful role she played on Jan. 6.
Never mind those pesky tweets urging on the patriots, because apparently Peter Baker didn’t. Most of the article is about Jared and all his good deeds. I’m not going to bother to link to it, because you’d have to sign a medical waver first.
germy shoemangler
@Kay:
Have you seen this thread from a former Republican?
NotMax
‘@Baud
Seabiscuit vs..Sparkplug..
(With appropriate apologies to Barney Google.)
//
jonas
@debbie: Unfortunately, I’ll have to go with Baud on this one. Half the country believes “facts” and “evidence” and “reality” are liberal conspiracies. so I don’t expect these hearings to move the needle much.
Kay
@germy shoemangler:
I did because satby posted it and I think it’s amazing. So simple! Why didn’t we think of that?
I do think it’s great though. It makes sense to me.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
I was planning to watch the hearing, but I found out this morning that my brother wants me to give him a ride to the airport tomorrow night. Guess I’ll listen to MSNBC in the car.
P.S. Somebody let me know if it looks like they can edit this comment. That has been a thing lately.
Steeplejack
@p.a.:
Sending positive thoughts and hopes for a good outcome to your girlfriend’s son.
mali muso
@Steeplejack: Can’t edit this comment, but I got an option to edit Kay’s comment (#25) a few minutes ago. Weird!
Mike in NC
My take from seeing corporate media is that 1/6/21 — installing a fascist dictator — was no big deal compared to an infant formula shortage and high gas prices. If not Trump, they will try to give us another Putin-friendly troglodyte blessed by the white supremacists at FOX News: DeSantis, Abbott, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, etc. The GQP has no bottom.
debbie
@NotMax:
And they make themselves look foolish by denying obvious facts. Might as well dismiss gravity.
p.a.
Thank you all❤️
Scout211
@Steeplejack:
I didn’t see your invitation to try to edit your comment from last night until way after the countdown ended so I didn’t get to try it. Sorry. I did click the box to open the entire edit box of one of your earlier comments and it sure looked like I would be able to edit it.
I hope this gets fixed because trolls . . .
I did send WaterGirl a screen shot.
Yutsano
Since the thread be open…ye gods Boebert is dumb.
NotMax
Unfortunately had already penciled in the 9th as the monthly run errands in town day (hearings begin at 2 p.m. here). Can possibly shift that to Friday (there are bills which come due on the 10th) except that is always “OMG, where did all this traffic suddenly come from” day of the week, when everything takes three times as long to accomplish and have come to accept my forbearance and stamina are realistically on the downslope of the hill of life.
Will probably catch up on watching via the reruns.
NotMax
‘@Yutsano
Can we be sure she didn’t say he “isn’t an edible churro plate?”
//
Gin & Tonic
So the Ukrainian technicians returning to the Chornobyl nuclear plant report that the russians who temporarily occupied it left shit in every office. Meaning human excrement. I’m looking forward to smart guys like Graziani or Omnes explaining how they were not properly trained in the laws of war.
germy shoemangler
@Yutsano:
Let’s not forget Jon Voight.
germy shoemangler
@Gin & Tonic:
But did they smear it on the walls like our homegrown insurrectionists?
eclare
@p.a.:
I will have all fingers, toes, and paws crossed here for good news.
MCA1
My hope for these hearings is that it changes the subconscious, gut feeling apolitical people have for the GOP. Obviously, the MAGAts won’t expose themselves to any of this, and to the extent they do they’ll just pretzel themselves into thinking it confirms what they already believe about who’s actually committed to democratic principles and who’s open to cheating in elections. The politically engaged on the left side of the aisle don’t need them, either.
But for everyone else, that substantial majority of people who think government hearings and impeachment proceedings are just an intrusion on their sports viewing, this has the potential to plant a seed in their brains that tells them “Republicans: bad. Trump: bad” to replace their default associations of the GOP with such outdated things as “responsible,” “patriotic” and “rule of law.”
Unfortunately, whether or not that sort of seed takes hold is dependent upon Democratic messaging going forward, so I assume these hearings will end up acting as a sad coda to the American democratic experiment – they have to be put forward for posterity and because it’s important to document what happened for the nation, but that’s it. A party with a penchant for consistent and relentless messaging could come out of this on the offensive, paint everyone associated with the Republican party as an insurrection loving fascist and stick with it, until it became conventional wisdom for uninformed voters. Like “Democrats like open borders” and “the economy is bad (despite 3% unemployment and deficit reduction).”
NotMax
‘@germy shoemangler
Not for want of trying.
;)
Ceci n est pas mon nym
It’s been an eventful few weeks in our house. Sunday we went to the memorial service of a friend who we didn’t even know was sick. He retired and a few months later got the diagnosis. The first we heard of it was the invitation to the memorial service.
But as of yesterday, we welcomed a new granddaughter into the family!
So yeah, many thoughts about life and mortality.
debbie
@Gin & Tonic:
Those are certainly the actions of a superpower world leader. //
Geminid
@Yutsano: Boebert is a real bonehead. A couple weeks ago she debated her primary opponent, State Senator and hemp farmer Don Coram. Boebert attacked Coram for voting on a bill tweaking Colorado’s hemp regulations. Boebert wanted to accuse Coram of acting with ulterior motives, but she read her notes wrong and it came of her mouth as “alternative motors.”
The audience laughed at Boebert a lot during that debate.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result.
With that in mind, I’m now trying to add a URL to my identity, something which I already know causes FYWP to toss me in the bit bucket.
??? It actually worked? WaterGirl, any theories?
debbie
@p.a.:
Hoping the oncologist is right.
debbie
@Geminid:
Okay, it’s past time for a MAGAt dictionary. Alternative motors, Peach tree dishes, Gazpacho police, etc. Gobsmacked minds need to know!
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Geminid: Is she the one with the “peach tree dishes” or is that another one of our Republican idiots?
Unfortunately, we’ve learned that “boneheaded” is a selling point to a large fraction of our electorate.
Baud
@Geminid:
Not that any Republican is good, but it would be cool if she lost the primary like Cawthorne did.
O. Felix Culpa
@Gin & Tonic: If memory serves, I don’t think Omnes was complicit with that disgraceful apologia. But your overall point is well-taken.
Baud
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
That was Greene.
NotMax
‘@debbie
Don’t forget the proto-MAGA “don’t cast aspersions on my asparagus.”
germy shoemangler
I wonder if that’s because she’s been obsessing over Biden’s plan to replace our beloved gas-powered vehicles with gay electric ones?
MisterForkbeard
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: That was the other female qanon nutcase.
Cameron
@Gin & Tonic: Laws of war? Hell, it sounds more like they need to be housebroken.
Baud
debbie
@O. Felix Culpa:
You’re thinking of the nym that starts with “w” and ends with “l.”
Kristine
@Bill K:
This has always been my wish. Reduce the opportunity for the GQP shitspray to bury it all.
Tony G
@debbie: In a healthy, rational country, the attempted coup on January 6th should have already caused the Republican Party and right-wing media to self-destruct. But, we live in a country in which tens of millions of people are dumber than rocks and/or are fascists, and in which institutions like the Senate and the Electoral College are deeply undemocratic. Nevertheless — it is very much worthwhile to get all of the evidence out in the open. Maybe it will make a difference. I hope that it will.
Tony G
@Kristine: That’s right. Have big loud hearings right up until Election Day.
NotMax
‘@Kristine
Current announced schedule is to air the last of the presentations in August.
cliosfanboy
@Geminid:
no surprise. It supposedly took her three tries to pass her GED.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: That entire series by Graziani was a head scratcher. They concluded that neo-liberalism (whatever that means – they had no clear idea) was responsible for Trump.
How is your DIL? All of you must be glad that her long ordeal is over.
schrodingers_cat
And right on cue the populist leftist demagogue and his spawn have begun mad mouthing the Democrats.
Amir Khalid
@Yutsano:
But Kid Rock, Ted Nugent, Scott Baio, and Kevin Sorbo do think and talk just like typical Republicans. Which means they are credible surrogates for the Republican party.
Baud
Dearest Betty Cracker,
FYI
Wapo
NotMax
‘@Amir Khalid
But do they have the cojones to debate an empty chair?
//
Amir Khalid
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
As I recall, “peach tree dishes was MTG’s, along with “gazpacho police”.
Geminid
@Baud: It’s possible. Boebert kind of snuck up on the previous incumbent, Scott Tipton, in their 2020 primary. He lost with $300,000 dollars in his campaign account that he was saving for the general election. He also may have gone lightly on Boebert’s criminal record so as not to alienate her fans.
Don Coram is a solid candidate. Boebert’s supporters accuse him of being too willing to work with Democrats in the state legislature, but not every Republican thinks that is a bad thing and there are a lot of Unaffiliated voters who may like that about him.
There are stories of 3rd District Democrats planning to reregister to vote in the Republican primary. Redistricting turned the 3rd from R+6 to something like R+10, so the primary may be the best opportunity to rid themselves of their repulsive Rep.
Elizabelle
@Geminid: Boebert is a toxic asshole.
But she might also be dyslexic. Same for Marjorie Taylor Greene.
I suppose it’s also possible those papers were prepared by staff, and both lunatics decided to wing it. Didn’t read them first. As usual.
It is shameful that people of that ilk are electable in some parts of the country. For shame.
germy shoemangler
Betty Cracker
@p.a.: Hoping for the best possible outcome. What an awful thing to face.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Tony G:
Name one.
Humans gonna human. We can work to make it better, but I don’t believe that large groups of humans can collectively reach a state of “healthy and rational”. It’s an unrealistic expectation.
NotMax
‘@Amir Khalid
Also Greene was the source for “Jewish space lasers.”
So many nutballs, so few straitjackets.
Betty Cracker
@germy shoemangler: I saw that thread earlier. The guy is exactly right. I believe the Republican world view basically boils down to: “You’re not the boss of ME.” Same thing really, but that thread outlines the corollary, which is, “I am the boss of YOU.”
prostratedragon
@debbie: And Marshall law.
O. Felix Culpa
@debbie: Thanks, but I’m not sure who that is. :)
In point of fact, I was thinking of Carlo Graziano’s front-page post, which was a misguided attempt to defend Russian troops against charges of genocide and was posted the day that the Bucha atrocities AND an official Russian document stating genocidal intentions came out. The post was clearly written before that irrefutable evidence was available, but Carlo got chippy with commenters who pushed back on his “they’re just poorly trained” thesis with that evidence. Although he admitted his mistake later on in the comments in one of Adam’s posts, I think that an error of that magnitude and import requires a front-page retraction. Otherwise, it’s like the NYT correcting its page A1 errors on page B17.
Betty Cracker
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: I take your point, but New Zealand seems to have its shit together. Iceland, etc. Many of our peer countries seem more functional, tbh.
debbie
@O. Felix Culpa:
The one I’m thinking of demanded G&T prove that he had family and loved ones in Ukraine. Both were pretty egregious.
O. Felix Culpa
@debbie: Ah yes, now I remember. Agreed.
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
Are you sure MTG didn’t steal “Jewish space lasers” from Mel Brooks?
RobertB
@Amir Khalid: I don’t know why Ted Nugent gets a pass on how he covered himself with shit and didn’t wash for a couple of weeks before going to the draft board. He wanted to take a pass on Vietnam. At the time he was proud of it.
MisterDancer
I want to address the “dumb” part. They aren’t. And, as Tony Jay has noted, it’s not just this country that has these issues — just as Thatcher paralleled Reagan.
What they are, are trapped in a system that has told them lies for their entire life. And is steadily increasing both the pressures on those lies, and how they drive up their rage, blinding them to all but following like lemmings off a cliff.
All the intellect in the words don’t save you from your lizard brain. It didn’t in the run up to America’s Civil War, and it won’t now, no matter the outcome today.
Add to that the drumbeat of economic pressures and fears, and you have a toxic stew that already is really bad, and has every potential to get far, far worse.
Now, how these people respond to those pressures, is on them. As someone who’s skin color means I’m one of the first up against the wall if they start to shoot en masse, trust, I’m keenly aware of the risks, and the horrific, violent natures at play, here.
In fact, the “they are dumb” discussion just serves to make “us” feel better, while disguising the real seriousness of the threat! Especially when these people are payed millions, in some cases, to formet dissent, anyone can stumble onto a method that can cause a huge amount of damage.
And it takes only one with a real methodical, focused approach, to wreak real havoc on our body politic.
So can we stop using “dumb” as a metric here, and start to really focus on why a whole range of people, with a range of intellects, actually do this shit, PLEASE?
Thanks.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: They are tiny and far more homogenous than the US.
Also you don’t really know much about the internal politics of these countries. FWIW I know at least two Indian families who left NZ for American shores. (One was a family of doctors and the other owned a car repair shop, and both said that even with all its problems USA is better for immigrants than NZ)
You should also read the charming things the British Empire did to the Maoris.
Steep’s Helper
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
My understanding—which could be mistaken—is that only your nym and email address are involved in moderation/verification. You can change or delete website at will.
P.S. Apostrophe available for your nym. (Change will trigger moderation.)
O. Felix Culpa
@MisterDancer: Agreed. Thank you.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: Boebert was speaking from notes, and it probably was a staffer who put “ulterior motives” in. She may never have seen these words before, much less used them.
Coram complained that both sides had agreed that notes would not be allowed at the debate. Boebeet brought a large three-ring binder.
schrodingers_cat
@Steep’s Helper: I will try the apostrophe when I have some breathing time. Thanks for troubleshooting!
NotMax
‘@Geminid
Binders full of
womenmalapropisms.//
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: She is well, thanks for asking. Living in NYC with my son, has already traveled internationally for business with no issues. The ordeal is, in fact, over.
Geminid
@MisterDancer: I know plenty of intelligent Republican voters. I’ve always figured that they vote the way they do is because they lack common sense and empathy, not intelligence.
NotMax
‘@Amir Khalid
Steal? From Mel Brooks?
That wouldn’t be kosher.
//
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: I have a baseline awareness of their histories and faults, thanks, and I did not claim they were perfect. I said their governments are less dysfunctional than ours, which seems self-evident to me, but YMMV.
Amir Khalid
@RobertB:
The Nooge is probably still proud that he evaded the draft. Springsteen didn’t go to Vietnam either, but that was because he failed his army physical after having recently suffered a concussion. And he never bragged about it. (See his spoken intro to The River from the Live 75-85 album.)
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Same, but I also know plenty of Republicans who are dumb as rocks. There are rock-stupid Dems too, but far fewer in my experience. I think it was John Stuart Mill who said “Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives”? I believe he was right.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: The question is better for whom? Will the Maoris or the Samis agree with your assessment? I don’t know the answer to that.
I see that Denmark and Sweden are no longer touted as utopias by the populist left. Their treatment of immigrants is far more racist and deplorable than the US, for example
Gvg
@MisterDancer: some of the ones I know, really are dumb though.
not all or most, but definitely some.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Oh yeah, when I look at Ron Filipkowski’s tweets on the people who go to trump rallies I see a lot of dummies. I think if I went to other venues, say a Starbucks i3 would find more educated, smarter Republicans. I was just agreeing with commenter’s point that people mislead themselves when they say that Republican voters generally vote the way they do because they are dumb. It’s not factually correct even though it affords people some specious self-esteem.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Steep’s Helper: Not true. I had a back and forth with WG a couple of weeks ago. I was getting thrown into the spam filter and we discovered that it was because I added a URL that WP didn’t like. Deleting the URL fixed the issue.
Today for some reason, the same URL is not causing issues.
Steep’s Helper
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
The spam filter is different from the moderation gizmo.
schrodingers_cat
@Geminid: Right wing’s biggest constituency is the wealthy and well-connected. The ones who benefit by the status quo.
I see this fallacy in Indian politics too. Lefty twitterati likes to proclaim people who favor BJP’s politics as stupid. They are not stupid nor illiterate. They want what the BJP wants and is willing to put up with the clown show
Yes they have their share of the gullible and the stupid but it would be a mistake to think that everyone who is in thrall of the right wing is dumb.
bjacques
@Amir Khalid: supposedly he’d admitted it to a reporter from Creem, Crawdaddy, Rolling Stone, in the early 1970s. But in or around 2016, when another reporter asked him about it, he claimed he’d gotten a deferment or 4-F, and had made up the story as a way of trolling that “stoner” reporter. Too chickenshit to own up to it; bad for the badass brand, in case Trump were to start a war and need cannonfodder.
ETA: For S_C…the Sweden pavilion at the Venice Biennale was given to the Sami people this year to illustrate how Sweden screwed them over even in recent history.
O. Felix Culpa
@Gvg: Some, perhaps many, RWNJ’s are certifiably dumb. However, I agree with MD that we dangerously miss–or minimize–the threat when we go “hurr, hurr, how stupid.” Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was monumentally dumb, but he did it anyway, at the still-rising cost of thousands of lives. It’s shocking that both dumb and not-dumb people get suckered into heinous beliefs and behavior for various reasons, but it is perilous to only laugh at them and not take the threat seriously.
Ruckus
@debbie:
Those already convicted of crimes show that yes, there will be consequences. They may not be as stiff as some want, they are still not nothing. For me it’s the higher ups (or lower downs – depending on your point of view) who are going to face some pretty stiff penalties for their parts that interest me. My feeling is that this may not go far enough but we don’t know that yet and that some of these idiots might just be big enough idiots to think that what they did was legal and profoundly necessary and will admit so publicly – one Peter Navarro springs to mind. I’m sure not all of these seditious bastards are as stupid as he is but then maybe I’m over estimating.
debbie
@O. Felix Culpa:
I think the kind of dumb they’re talking about is JFK Jr returning or the COVID vaccine magnetizing you. The kind of dumb that can’t be faked.
Redshift
As to what good the hearings will do for whether we keep the insurrectionist party from taking over, keep in mind:
1. For all the horse race focus on “swing voters” and “independents” and “Obama-Trump voters,” shifts in elections are almost entirely from turnout, not convincing people to switch sides.
2. Turnout among hardcore wingnuts isn’t likely to be affected by anything (even if they did get information directly instead of how their cult leaders feed it to them, the same way they “read the Bible”), so judging it based on whether they’re influenced is nothing but a recipe for despair.
Given that, the best outcome for the midterms/saving our democracy is if it gets through that this was a whole lot bigger than TFG and they’re still at it, so some of the people who though everything was solved when TFG was voted out will be motivated to keep coming out to vote against Republicans.
debbie
@Ruckus:
If they’re not stupid, then they’re delusional. TFG’s attorneys, for instance.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Again, I said they were less dysfunctional, not perfect, and I’d include the Nordic countries in that too. For example, schoolchildren and grieving parents in those countries don’t have to futilely testify before Congress over multiple generations to try to stem the tide of gun massacres — even though most citizens want change but structural disadvantages to the majority of citizens prevent it. The US Senate is a shitshow.
O. Felix Culpa
@debbie: Yes, and the dumb people who fall for that shit are being prepped and mobilized by smart people who intend to use them for nefarious ends, e.g. January 6. Just laughing at them and their patently foolish beliefs misses the underlying threat they pose to vulnerable minorities and our democracy.
schrodingers_cat
@O. Felix Culpa:
Stupid is in the eyes of the beholder. They don’t necessarily want the same things that we do.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Is this a tongue in cheek comment? (Have I gone too far?)
I’m not sure why it is in any way surprising that a large fraction of the population thinks that they can do no wrong and hates it when they fuck around and find out. After all what’s good for the goose is good for the shitstains.
Redshift
@bjacques:
It’s the Nordic countries collectively (Norway, Sweden and Finland), not just Sweden.
RobertB
@bjacques: Yep, I read it in Circus, Creem, or Hit Parader, right around ’76 or ’77.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: I agree with your assessment regarding gun violence. As for other issues I don’t have enough data to draw firm conclusions.
All these countries you name are tiny and not as diverse as we are. Our size and diversity makes us more difficult to govern.
If Massachusetts were a country we would be as good or better than the countries whose examples you give.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone
Ruckus
@debbie:
I’m going for the trifecta.
Stupid.
Delusional.
Seditious.
I’m pretty sure each and every one of them qualifies.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodingers_cat: Exactly. For example, I mistakenly thought that W and Co. surely wouldn’t be so stupid as to invade Iraq on transparently false premises and with predictably disastrous consequences. But other frameworks or values besides intelligence (e.g. greed, revenge, empire-strutting, etc.) were at play and the invasion made “sense” under their construct. Didn’t work out so well, but that’s another story.
debbie
@O. Felix Culpa:
I understand the threat, but not what gets them to believe such farfetched things. I think it’s more than just hatred. I think it’s the garbage that passes for street drugs now.
Geminid
@debbie: There definitely are stupid people at the trump rallies and they prove it when a microphone is put in front of their mouths. I don’t view these people as typical or representative trump voters, though, because I know and see too many who are not like the ralliers
I think thst if I took the rally freaks as representative Republicans I would be underestimating my opposition, and would not be a good thing even if it made me feel better about my side.
Ruckus
@jonas:
I don’t think that all of the legal wrangling will change a lot of conservative minds. It will change some and it will give a lot of common (and I use that word in it’s most demeaning manner) folk some pause. Will it change conservative politics or demands? I seriously doubt it. Their racism, their hate, their stupidity doesn’t have an easy fix, or possibly any fix. They have been marinating in faux news bullshit for 30 yrs, telling them how bad everything is and how much better it would be if only all of them would just be as smart as a dead fish. They seem to be complying. The point is they want something they can’t have and have been sold an idiotic rational for doing the worst things possible in any system that even approaches a democracy.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Speaking strictly about various governments’ capacity to function (not size, diversity, virtue, etc.), I think it’s possible we’re uniquely hamstrung in the U.S. because 1) the constitution bakes in rural over-representation, and 2) citizens are trained from infancy to regard the constitution as holy writ, which makes it really hard to solve urgent problems and address pressing issues.
Omnes Omnibus
@O. Felix Culpa: G&T has a point in that during the first phases of the war I was unwilling to attribute to genocidal intentions what could be explained by poor training and bad soldiering. Bucha removed any questions about that. I still would argue that the Russians are poorly trained and generally bad at the basic tasks of soldiering, but that is separate from their genocidal actions. I will leave it there.
Dopey-o
What form of sarcoma? We had a bout with rhabdomyo sarcoma some years back.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: No system is perfect. And even if we were to devise such a system the people running it won’t be perfect.
In India for example, the Constitution is not as rigid as the US Constitution it gives more power to states with larger populations and yet we have Modi in power despite never getting more than 40% of the overall vote.
Britain doesn’t have a written Constitution and yet Tories are in power after flubbing Brexit.
TPTB, will twist any Constitution or method of governance to benefit their ends.
It is pretty simple really if white people don’t vote for Rs in the overwhelming numbers that they do in many states, our politics will change.
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough. Thank you for the clarification. I’ll leave it there too. :)
StringOnAStick
It is possible that the televised hearings will do something very important: get the idea out there that the tRump administration is definitely criminal, which will soften the ground a bit for when indictments of higher ups start to drop. For the people who pay little attention, the hearings will be mentioned enough in the news that they won’t be completely surprised by indictments, and that’s how the huge ship of public opinion starts to turn.
Elizabelle
@StringOnAStick: That is my hope. That, and that these very same shameless Trump enablers ensure that schoolchildren (and all of us) can not be safe from gun massacres. Assault weapons.
Omnes Omnibus
@StringOnAStick:
@Elizabelle: It is also my hope. FWIW I think it is likely to happen. The question is how much and how fast.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: To be fair I don’t know of any country that treats immigrants well all the time.
Soprano2
@MisterDancer: I agree, calling them dumb is giving them an excuse. We shouldn’t do it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2: I don’t know of any country that does anything well all the time.
Quiltingfool
@MisterDancer:
I’m late to this thread, so you may not see this. You are right. We keep saying the electorate is dumb, but it seems we’re giving them an out. I keep asking why on earth people around me vote Republican when Republicans shit on them at every opportunity; I think, “How dumb and stupid!” I don’t need to ask myself that anymore – they vote Republican because deep down they are afraid white people won’t be on the top of the heap. They want that white supremacy shit. They believe if black folks get in charge, they will treat whites in the same manner that whites have treated black folks. (That belief actually came out of a relative’s mouth).
I’m an old white woman. I know my color gave me privileges that a black or brown woman never had. I could say, “oh, I worked hard and made smart choices and if they would do that, everything would be fine!” Bullshit. I got lucky and yeah, I worked and mostly made good choices, but I still say there were many other factors that tilted the field in my favor.
Now, being white was helpful, but the woman part? Not so much. And way worse for black and brown women – they have to contend with patriarchy AND white women bullshit.
A bit of a rant, but I just want you, Mister Dancer, to know that I hear you and I want the injustices to be fixed. And fixing this? That’s on white folks. And that’s scary.
Elizabelle
When I hear voters tell reporters they think Republicans are “better on the economy.”
I now think that means “I don’t want to pay taxes.
Because Republicans sure don’t support a well-educated workforce. Or turning to more environmentally sound industries. Or treating the workforce with dignity and respect. It’s a race to the bottom. Always.
And they’ve presided over all of the major financial fiascos since the Great Depression.
So, no. They aren’t “better on the economy.” Even pre-politician Trump was quoted saying that on TV, decades ago. He flat out said that the economy does better under Democrats.
UncleEbeneezer
@Elizabelle: I heard some of my 10-13 tennis students joking around about lowering taxes, last week. The anti-tax indoctrination starts VERY EARLY in this country.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: Actually the US and the anglophone countries do a far better job where immigrants are concerned regarding legal protections, path to citizenship etc.
Elizabelle
@UncleEbeneezer:
Who paid for their tennis court?
Ruckus
@Mike in NC:
The GQP has no bottom.
Sure they do, they are all ass all the time…..
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Private club?
lowtechcyclist
@germy shoemangler:
Can’t see anything there to argue with.
I’d add that Frank Wilhoit’s axiom, that conservatism divides the world into those the law protects but doesn’t bind, and those it binds but doesn’t protect, is a particular case of what Ethan Grey is saying in that thread.
UncleEbeneezer
@Elizabelle: That’s exactly what I asked them :) At Ronald Reagan (spit) Park, no less.
lowtechcyclist
@Tony G:
Of course, there’s the problem of the media effectively being GOP accomplices. Remember the attention they gave every little drip-drip of new details with Benghazi and Butter Emails? We were told that one of the reasons the media gave it such play was that it wasn’t just one-and-done, there were a constant stream of new revelations, however minor.
But there have been plenty of little revelations about the January 6th conspiracy in recent months, and how much publicity has this drip-drip gotten by comparison?
I’ve been pretty insistent that the Dems need to do a better job of painting the GOP as the horror show that it is, because however much or little one expects of the media, one can’t expect them to do more for the Dems than the Dems are willing to do for themselves.
But there’s no question that no matter what the Dems do, it’s going to be an uphill battle, thanks to our abysmal media.
Elizabelle
@UncleEbeneezer:
Oh Lord. Saint Reagan Park. Good on you, though.
Cmorenc
@schrodingers_cat: which populist leftist and his spawn are you referring to? I would have assumed you were referring to Bernie, except for including the reference to his spawn, and I don’t recall he has any any politicslly activist kids
Urban Suburbanite
@Elizabelle:
Listen to what they say about schools, once they get past gibbering about the dread CRT. They want trade schools that churn out obedient workers who know enough to be useful laborers and hate who they hate, but the idea that these kids might ask questions, think for themselves or even disagree with them enrages these people.
misterpuff
How it started:
Washington Commanders DC Jack Del Rio defends tweets about Jan. 6 hearings, refers to Capitol insurrection as ‘dust-up’ – ABC News (go.com)
How its going:
Washington Commanders defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio apologizes after calling Capitol insurrection a ‘dustup’ (espn.com)
Doesn’t matter what the name is, The Washington Football Team is pure trash (players excluded).
Gee I hope Jack watches tomorrow night, his racist ass might learn something.
OOPS, excuse me: Racist A$$
misterpuff
@misterpuff: Nevermind.