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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

The willow is too close to the house.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

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When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

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Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

This fight is for everything.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

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Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

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You are here: Home / Balloon Juice / Thursday Morning Open Thread: We Begin

Thursday Morning Open Thread: We Begin

by Anne Laurie|  June 9, 202212:19 pm| 163 Comments

This post is in: Balloon Juice, Jan 6: Hearings, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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After a year of investigating the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, the House Select Committee will hold public hearings to shine a light on the attempt to subvert U.S. democracy and to draw the line of responsibility directly to the White House https://t.co/HK6URrGHVB pic.twitter.com/VSfCLfWv4n

— Reuters (@Reuters) June 8, 2022

Via commentor NotMax, a comprehensive guide on “How To Watch The Primetime January 6 Hearings Online & On TV, Plus Schedule & Who’ll Be Testifying”:

… The committee plans to unveil previously unseen footage from the attack on the Capitol, conduct interviews with Trump White House staffers and also play videos of its interviews with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, according to the Washington Post.

The hearing reportedly will also include testimony from Nick Quested, a documentary filmmaker who was following the right-wing group The Proud Boys as the Capitol was attacked, and Caroline Edwards, a Capitol police officer who was injured.

C-SPAN is serving as the pool for broadcast and cable media, and will cover the hearing with seven cameras. Each network — except Fox News, which is not covering the hearings in full — will add analysis and reporting.

With mounds of data, graphic presentations, thousands of hours of footage and hundreds of photos, the hearing reportedly will be much more media heavy than is typical. That’s likely part of why James Goldston, the former president of ABC News, has been advising on the presentation.

What follows are the coverage plans that each network has for the hearings, which can also be streamed at january6th.house.gov…


The public hearings will present both new and publicly known information in a compelling way.

Many have heard the story in drips and drabs.

But that only gives part of the picture.

We’ll demonstrate the multipronged effort to overturn a presidential election, how one strategy to subvert the election led to another, culminating in a violent attack on our democracy.

It’s an important story, and one that must be told to ensure it never happens again.

During tomorrow’s hearing and in the ones to follow, we’ll show how close we came to losing our democracy.

And why it’s still deeply at risk.

We’ll provide details of the effort to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power.

And what we must do to protect our democracy now.

Well worth reading:

Six questions the January 6 committee aims to answer about the U.S. Capitol attack during its hearings starting tonight https://t.co/BT3rD9vWaT

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) June 9, 2022

Counter-arguments:

Nice of them to just come out and admit it. https://t.co/e8JGAhNPMs

— Centrism Fan Acct ?? (@Wilson__Valdez) June 8, 2022

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Next Post: Politics as a social determinant of health »

Reader Interactions

163Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    June 9, 2022 at 8:21 am

    Good Morning Everyone

  2. 2.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:24 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:25 am

    I hope the Committee puts up a makeshift gallows in the Committee room.

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    June 9, 2022 at 8:30 am

    Thanks for highlighting that. In case anyone just awakening is fuzzy on which link goes where, here’s the main one again:

    How To Watch The Primetime January 6 Hearings Online & On TV, Plus Schedule & Who’ll Be Testifying

    And now for a horse of a different color.

    Anticipatorily declaring July 15 to be Trousers Conflagration Day.

    Former President Donald Trump, his namesake son and his daughter Ivanka have agreed to answer questions under oath next month in the New York attorney general’s civil investigation into his business practices, unless their lawyers persuade the state’s highest court to step in.

    A Manhattan judge signed off Wednesday on an agreement that calls for the Trumps to give depositions — a legal term for sworn, pretrial testimony out of court — starting July 15. Source

  5. 5.

    Ken

    June 9, 2022 at 8:31 am

    Each network — except Fox News, which is not covering the hearings in full — will add analysis and reporting.

    I’m sure Fox will provide what they call analysis and reporting.

  6. 6.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 8:34 am

    Republicans considering even modest gun safety proposals are looking over their right shoulders at primary challengers. Nancy Pelosi wasn’t having that yesterday:

         Speaker Pelosi just called out Republicans on the House floor as she prepared to pass gun legislation.

    “Your political survival is totally insignificant compared to the survival of our children.”

    From No Lie With Brian Taylor Cohen, Twitter.

  7. 7.

    Mathguy

    June 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    As the last two tweets imply, is FTFNYT ‘s political coverage really any better than watching the Murdoch fascism channel?

  8. 8.

    artem1s

    June 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    remember to take a mental health break once in a while and look at random kittehs and puppy pictures

    Kitty ambush​

  9. 9.

    TriassicSands

    June 9, 2022 at 8:38 am

    It’s an important story, and one that must be told to ensure it never happens again…

    …until 2024-25.

  10. 10.

    Fester Addams

    June 9, 2022 at 8:38 am

    …something called, you know, cater to our audience…

    No, that’s a lie too. They take their orders from above and manipulate their audience accordingly.

  11. 11.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 9, 2022 at 8:38 am

    At first, I thought that tweet about the NYT opinion desk had to be a joke. Nope. It appears to be real. No less of a joke, I suppose.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:43 am

    @TriassicSands: 

    Can’t really happen when there’s a Dem president who is in charge of security. So we’re talking 2029 at the earliest.

  13. 13.

    RandomMonster

    June 9, 2022 at 8:44 am

    @artem1s: That video is pretty much how I want to die.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @artem1s:

    That was on Reddit and someone said he took all of them to his farm.

  15. 15.

    Ken

    June 9, 2022 at 8:47 am

    @artem1s: Where was that taken? Ulthar?

  16. 16.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:48 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    There’s a reason DougJ is a Twitter star.

  17. 17.

    TriassicSands

    June 9, 2022 at 8:49 am

    @Baud:

    Insurrection does not depend on who occupies the White House.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    @TriassicSands:

    It would be fruitless to try a violent insurrection with a Dem president though.  (A GOP Congress could still play games.). It would be swatted down like a bug.

  19. 19.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 9, 2022 at 8:51 am

    @artem1s: That is so cute

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    June 9, 2022 at 8:52 am

    Previous immutable plans preclude watching in real time. Shall eyeball the full rerun and hungrily skim the liveblogging threads upon return to the domicile.

  21. 21.

    TriassicSands

    June 9, 2022 at 8:58 am

    @Baud:

    People would likely die. The system would be further weakened.

    Insignificant, I guess. You’re talking about “bookkeeping.” I’m talking about violence and further assaults on the legitimacy of our system.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:02 am

    @TriassicSands:

    People died in Sherman’s march through Georgia too.  Are we going to wring our hands in worry whenever we have to fight?

  23. 23.

    TriassicSands

    June 9, 2022 at 9:04 am

    @Baud:

    Argument for the sake of argument is a waste of time. Carry on.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:11 am

    @TriassicSands:

    Argument for the sake of argument is a waste of time.

     
    I disagree.

  25. 25.

    Immanentize

    June 9, 2022 at 9:18 am

    @TriassicSands: this sounds clever, until one realizes you are commenting at Balloon Juice.

  26. 26.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:18 am

    Andrew Sullivan
    @sullydish
    · 12h
    $2 billion in property damage in the 1619 riots – which were followed by a surge in murders of black Americans. You can despise this mass violence as well as January 6.

    BLM caused a certain group of elite pundits/influencers to go completely insane and it isn’t really ideological- a lot of them call themselves “Democrats” or “centrists”.

    “Followed by a surge in murders of black Americans” means “police went on a hissy fit wildcat strike for two years because they were ‘disrespected’ and refused to enforce any laws”

  27. 27.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:19 am

    the 1619 riots

    Ugh. Just gross.

  28. 28.

    Cameron

    June 9, 2022 at 9:20 am

    I’m curious about what’s in the Jacob Bacharach piece – I’ve been a fan of his writing for a long time, but haven’t been to his website recently.

  29. 29.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 9:21 am

    Biased or no, the poll mentioned in this story says that things don’t look so hot for Big Dick Cheney’s (mostly) evil spawn:

    Cheney is trailing her leading GOP primary rival, attorney Harriet Hageman by 28-56 percent, according to a survey chartered by the Hageman-backing super PAC, Wyoming Values, and obtained by NBC News. The survey was conducted by Tony Fabrizio, who also polls for former President Trump. It closely tracks other polls in the state, according to Republican insiders.

    […]

    “Not only is Cheney getting creamed in the ballot, but Wyoming [Republican primary voters] are clear that there is no room for her to get back into this race,” Fabrizio wrote in a memo obtained by NBC News. “A huge 71% majority say they will vote against her, including 66% who will definitely vote against Cheney no matter who she runs against. With only 26% saying they will definitely or probably vote for Cheney, she has hit her ceiling on the ballot.”

  30. 30.

    Immanentize

    June 9, 2022 at 9:22 am

    @Kay: i saw this via Michael Harriot. Unbelievable! The 1619 riots? WTF?

    It’s that secret right wing speak that no normal person outside of historians and the twitterati even can begin to put together. Or is that fatuous ass just saying they were slave riots?

  31. 31.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @Kay:

    Yeah, I had no idea what that was referring to at first.

    ETA:

    #AllRiotsMatter

  32. 32.

    Immanentize

    June 9, 2022 at 9:25 am

    @Kay: Sullivan is dangerously obsessed with NH Jones. She is an actual journalist, won a Pulitzer, is black and to add insult to his injury is neither a man nor gay.

  33. 33.

    debbie

    June 9, 2022 at 9:27 am

    @Kay:

    WTF is Andrew Sullivan to give it his own label?

  34. 34.

    Elizabelle

    June 9, 2022 at 9:28 am

    The 1619 riots?

    Never heard that term.  Jebus.

  35. 35.

    O. Felix Culpa

    June 9, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @Immanentize: And is melanin-positive, unlike Himself.

    ETA: Oops, reading fail on my part. You already mentioned that, in fewer syllables. :)

  36. 36.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @JWR:

    Cheney is awful in many ways, but I’ll give her credit for standing up for what’s right on this one.

  37. 37.

    Cameron

    June 9, 2022 at 9:29 am

    @Kay: If he was feeling nostalgic, he could have written “the Bell Curve riots.” Wasn’t he a big Charles Murray fan? Or maybe still is, IDK.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:30 am

    Why haven’t we cancelled Sully yet?

  39. 39.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:31 am

    @Immanentize: 

    The anti-cancel culture substack crowd (and I do mean crowd- they all write the same things) were so mortally offended that someone outside their “accepted” circles was permitted to collect a series of essays and publish them in the NYTimes they may never recover.

    They are in charge of American culture. They are the gatekeepers and no alternate ideas may be published. They’ll tell us what’s “acceptable” in liberalism and what’s not. Oddly and perhaps not coincidentally, the only acceptable ideas are the ideas they, personally, came up on and are comfortable with.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    June 9, 2022 at 9:33 am

    @JWR:  How do you write a whole story about the Wyoming primary and never divulge its date?  (It’s August 16.)

    And yeah, Wyoming Republicans are horrible.

    I will hope that Trump becomes radioactive (and indicted, even!) by mid-August.  Props to Liz Cheney for doing the right thing.

  41. 41.

    Betty

    June 9, 2022 at 9:33 am

    My one hope is that the hearings shake the clueless mainstream media out of their horse race coverage. There is just too much at stake for this failure to continue.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:34 am

    @Immanentize:

    They all hate her. I read her Twitter just to read the unhinged comments from her detractors. She can’r say anything without a hive of middle aged white people descending, screeching that she’s destroying their stodgy, conventional, romanticized view of US history.

    I sort of love her :)

  43. 43.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 9:36 am

    @Baud: Same here. I almost feel sorry for her. (And that’s as far as I’ll go.)

  44. 44.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:38 am

    @JWR:

    It’s bad though. The far Right anti-democratic insurrectionist wing is a real threat to the country. One more of them in the US House is not good. They’re already a majority on the Right.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:41 am

    @Baud:

    He’s like a bad penny, though. In five years he’ll say something critical of conservatives and liberals will be falling all over themselves to declare him an ally.

  46. 46.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 9:42 am

    @Immanentize: Andrew Sullivan is going to end up willingly supporting people who are out to eliminate him from existence just to flatter his own racism.

  47. 47.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 9, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @Kay:  Also too, they are racist. And now they’ve been emboldened to show us who they really are.

  48. 48.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @Kay: Pfft. I thought he was gross and delusional when he was going after Sarah Palin, one of the most loathsome people on our political scene.

  49. 49.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @Elizabelle: I’m not saying that Cheney will win, but I think the result will be much closer than that poll indicates. Despite efforts of trump allies in the Wyoming legislature to change election law, Independents and Democrats will still be able to get a Republican ballot for the primary. This involves reregistering on primary day but does not limit a voter’s choice in November.

  50. 50.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @Kay:

    Or he’ll criticize Biden “from the left.” Same result.

  51. 51.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 9, 2022 at 9:45 am

    @debbie: WTF is Andrew Sullivan to give it his own label?

    The same unapologetically racist narcissistic asshole that he’s always been, now with even less filter?

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    June 9, 2022 at 9:47 am

    @Kay: me too. She is really awesome. She has done very good work, has taken so much shit for it, had her planned future derailed by a white supremacist at NC, and then came out of it stronger.

    Also, real NYTimes best seller list top author without right wing welfare buys. Drives the substackers crazy.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:48 am

    @Baud: 

    I think he’s less effective at that because he has no interest in “the Left” and does not actually know who they are or what they believe.
    His “Leftists” are Freddie de Boer and Glenn Greenwald, both of whom do a lot of talking and writing but mysteriously none of it is ever about their (alleged) Leftist beliefs.
    Freddie de Boers last big essay was a passionate defense of standardized testing, which is okay, but is also the official position of the US Department of Education and has been since George W and Jeb Bush put it in in 2000. These are just conventional Right wing opinions.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:52 am

    @Immanentize:

    There’s something really inspiring to me about her dignity, her insistence they won’t drag her down.

    She’s tough and somehow pulls that off without being as unkind or vicious as her detractors. She makes them look small. Since I think they are small and are hugely over-rated as “public intellectuals” I’m glad.

  55. 55.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 9:54 am

    @JWR: Two of the nine January 6 Commitee members- Adam Kinzinger and Stephanie Murphy- are retiring. Five- Chairman Benny Thompson, Zoe Lofgren, Adam Schiff, Pete Aguilar, and Jaime Raskin- have safely Democratic seats.

    Besides Cheney, the one other panel member with a tough reelection is Elaine Luria (VA-2d). Cook’s Political Report rates Luria’s coastal district as R+1. Luria flipped that district in 2018. Redistricting made it a little tougher this year, and it’s a top Republican target.

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    June 9, 2022 at 9:56 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Oh, right, remember his obsession with her pregnancy?

  57. 57.

    zhena gogolia

    June 9, 2022 at 9:56 am

    @Geminid: My Wyoming relatives make a habit of voting Republican so they can keep the worst crazies out.

  58. 58.

    danielx

    June 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @artem1s:

    Yes, I could watch that over and over.

  59. 59.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Kay: conventional Right wing opinions

    But are they still today? Or, with the Neanderthal Right ascendant, are these poor scribes with their center-right policy proposals and polite dog-whistle racism being left behind by “both sides”?

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    June 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Immanentize: I saw Sullivan come after Jones on Twitter one time. It did not go well for him!

    @Baud: I give Cheney unreserved kudos on her anti-insurrection work. She has shown enormous courage and integrity.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Kay: 

    It’s trendy because it opposes Big Teacher.

  62. 62.

    zhena gogolia

    June 9, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, she has.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Baud:

    The “equity argument” for standardized tests goes like this- “an objective measure benefits minority students because any subjective measure will be compromised by the preexisting beliefs of the person or persons doing the measuring”.

    It’s a fine argument. There’s another side but nothing wrong with this argument. It’s just 50 years old and IT IS the status quo. The idea that they somehow “can’t say” this extremely conventional view is just ridiculous. Of course they can say it. The whole federal government says it and so do all the states.

  64. 64.

    Elizabelle

    June 9, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Geminid:  Hell, I’d vote for Liz Cheney!! In the general, too.

  65. 65.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 9, 2022 at 10:00 am

    @Kay: I love that she makes them look small in comparison – because on the merits it is so clear.

    Is there a future for the mediocre white male thinkers of today? Subscribe to my newsletter to find out!

  66. 66.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 10:01 am

    @zhena gogolia: I read that in Wyoming, polling shows that Republican self-identification is significantly lower than Republican registration. A lot of independents register Republican for the same reason as your relatives.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 10:02 am

    @Kay:

    The idea that they somehow “can’t say” this extremely conventional view is just ridiculous

     

    When they say they can’t say it, what they mean is

    There’s another side 

    That you shouldn’t listen to. As long as they keep the focus on their oppressed state, they don’t have to engage in the substantive debate.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:06 am

    @Baud:

    I actually lean their way on standardized tests! I would be an ally. But they’re horrible and self pitying and whiny so I won’t want to be with them.

    During the public employee union fight in Ohio I learned this thing I had never encountered before- the AA organizers said that public positions where there was a civil service test benefitted AA employees, because the private sector was using subjective and opaque measures and not hiring them. The same with “step raises” and promotions. The union system had objective, posted benchmarks and the private sector did not. Hence, how so many AA people in Ohio ended up rising in public sector jobs but not private sector jobs. Amazing. But duh, right? Never occurred to me.

  69. 69.

    debbie

    June 9, 2022 at 10:06 am

    @Kay:

    She’s tough and somehow pulls that off without being as unkind or vicious as her detractors.

    Also her father.

  70. 70.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 9, 2022 at 10:07 am

    @Baud: When you’re a rebellious punk man-child, leading a revolution against the teachers can seem so righteous!

    “Take that, Mrs. Frickle!”

  71. 71.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 9, 2022 at 10:08 am

    @Kay: I think that’s true of companies with federal contracts too. They have to meet some sort of equity goals.

  72. 72.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 9, 2022 at 10:10 am

    @Geminid: Kinzinger’s district was wiped out in this year’s Illinois redistricting. As with Cheney, I admire his integrity on Jan 6, but his other positions are straight up R, so I’m reluctantly glad to see him go

  73. 73.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 10:11 am

    @Kay: 
    I used to have a job with subjective evaluations. Hated it. I make less now but there’s no subjectivity when it comes to pay or status. I actually feel much more valued.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:15 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Right. But these same people would object to that. So on the one hand they support “objective measures” as a hedge against subjective bias, but in employment they want ONLY subjective meaures.

    So where did the bias they were hedging against in high school go? It ends when the AA person turns 18 and graduates? That’s odd.

  75. 75.

    Shalimar

    June 9, 2022 at 10:18 am

    @JWR: Liz Cheney is a leader of the part of the Republican party that measures victory in number of foreigners killed, as opposed to the part of the party that might kill us all on a nuclear whim.  She really isn’t any less evil than they are.

  76. 76.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Elizabelle: I’ve spent time camping near Myrtle Beach in South Carolina’s 7th CD. It’s represented  by another Republican Impeacher, Tom Rice. When I saw that Rice voted to impeach, I figured he was a goner. But it seeems like he has a decent chance against a trump-endorsed challenger. I would definitely come put for Rice, and it would be easy because like Virginia, South Carolina does not register voters by party and all primaries are open.

    I drove across the district in October, 2020, and I saw a lot of Tom Rice’s signs. They were simple and did not mention his party; just a dark blue background, “Tom Rice” at the top, “Congress” at the bottom, and a silhouette of a palmeto tree in the center.

  77. 77.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Kay: I agree with this perspective too. I also agree that standardized measures have their own biases and are not perfect or fair. But they’re still more fair than subjective measures.

    Like many topics, the lines of argument seem to be dominated by binary thinking and fixed-mindset. One method is good and the other is bad. Both methods are the way they are today and won’t change.

    I would argue:

    • No method of evaluation is unbiased
    • Not all methods are biased in the same way, or to the same degree
    • The methods of today can be improved to be less biased, so that the methods of tomorrow are more fair (but there will always be room for further improvement)

    So instead of advocates arguing that one method is good and the other bad, perhaps a more constructive approach would be to accept that both are imperfect and commit to working to make them both better.

    But constructive arguments don’t get the clicks…

  78. 78.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    June 9, 2022 at 10:23 am

    At some point it’s going to come out that Trump gave secreat testimony against himself to the Jan6th Committee because Trump is such a compulsive braggart.

  79. 79.

    Leto

    June 9, 2022 at 10:27 am

    First she documented the alt-right. Now she’s coming for crypto. Molly White, a veteran Wikipedia editor, is fast becoming the cryptocurrency world’s biggest critic

    As much of the financial and tech elite has rallied around crypto, White has led a small but scrappy group of skeptics pushing the other way whose warnings have seemed vindicated by the cratering in recent weeks of cryptocurrency prices.

    “Most of my disdain is reserved for the big players who are marketing this to a mainstream audience as though it’s an investment, often promising to be a ticket out of a really tough financial spot for people who don’t have many options,” White said. “It’s very predatory.”

    …..

    White and her fellow skeptics say the traditional media has mishandled the story, treating bitcoin as an exciting innovation while underplaying the idea it could be a giant pyramid scheme. Crypto-focused publications tend to have ties to the industry, while financial news organizations treat it like an asset class. “The crypto industry has benefited from the siloing of journalism,” McKenzie said. “You have to step back much broader and get outside the industry to get some perspective on what might be going on inside it.”

  80. 80.

    germy shoemangler

    June 9, 2022 at 10:33 am

    @Leto:

    Absolutely outrageous that two United States Senators would encourage people to invest their RETIREMENT FUNDS in bitcoin. Just wildly irresponsible. https://t.co/G22pLIQN2I

    — Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) June 8, 2022

  81. 81.

    Alison Rose

    June 9, 2022 at 10:33 am

    Rep Schiff is none too pleased with the DOJ. Can’t say I disagree.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 10:34 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Kinzinger announced his retirement before redistricting, but he knew that he would have a tough primary and a difficult reelection. Two of the other Midwestern Republican Impeachers, Upton of Michigan and Gonzales of Ohio also retired.

    The fourth, Peter Meijer of Michigan, is running for reelection. It looks like Meijer will get past his primary, but his rematch with Democrat Hillary Scholten will be close. Some Republicans may leave that ballot line blank rather than support Meijer.

  83. 83.

    germy shoemangler

    June 9, 2022 at 10:35 am

    @Baud:

    You have a job?  I thought you were retired for some reason

  84. 84.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 9, 2022 at 10:35 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Fifth paragraph:

    Some Cheney supporters privately echo the same sentiment, but her campaign vehemently denies that she’s not home often enough or that she has no way to come back before the Aug. 16 primary.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:39 am

    The Recount
    @therecount
    · 10h
    President Biden asked by Jimmy Kimmel if there’s any honesty behind the scenes on gun reform talks:
    “I get in trouble for saying this, but … I’ve always had a straight relationship with the Republican leader Mitch McConnell. He’s a guy that when he says something he means it.”

    I confess I do not understand why the Biden Administration continues to follow this approach. If I could point to something in polling or substantive results of this approach I could at least explain it.

    It just isn’t working if the intent is to attract Independents. They must see that by now. Why not shift course? It can’t hurt and it might help.

  86. 86.

    Steeplejack

    June 9, 2022 at 10:42 am

    @Cameron:

    Jacob Bacharach, “The Anticlimax of the Jan. 6 Hearings.”

    Dunno if it’s paywalled. Took the link from Twitter, so maybe it isn’t.

  87. 87.

    brantl

    June 9, 2022 at 10:43 am

    @Baud: I wish they’d kept the original, and re-assembled it, after dusting it for fingerprints, of course!

  88. 88.

    James E Powell

    June 9, 2022 at 10:43 am

    @TriassicSands:

    Argument for the sake of argument is a waste of time.

    No, it’s not.

  89. 89.

    Leto

    June 9, 2022 at 10:44 am

    @germy shoemangler:  I didn’t need another reason to dislike Gillibrand, but what’cha going to do?

  90. 90.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 10:44 am

    @germy shoemangler:

    Well, if you can call being a paid subversive on a liberal blog working, yes, I have a job.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:45 am

    @Alison Rose :

    I think it’s a mistake to blame it all on Garland. It’s timidity and conflict avoidance in the culture of the place as to white collar or well heeled defendants. One person didn’t create this in two years and one political appointee probably couldn’t have turned it around.

  92. 92.

    James E Powell

    June 9, 2022 at 10:45 am

    @Kay:

    BLM caused a certain group of elite pundits/influencers to go completely insane and it isn’t really ideological- a lot of them call themselves “Democrats” or “centrists”.

    Agree with respect to Democrats & centrists. Sullivan, however, did not go insane. He is and always has been an a hole and a bigot.

  93. 93.

    Bill K

    June 9, 2022 at 10:45 am

    @Fester Addams: It goes both ways.  A disturbingly large part of the populace want to be told it’s OK to discriminate and hate.  Fox takes advantage of this to capture the audience and feed them Republican propaganda.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 10:47 am

    @germy shoemangler:

    If I understand the proposal, it’s to regulate crypto like other investments are regulated.  I don’t know the details of the bill, but “allowing” people to invest in crypto like they can invest in stocks is not “encouraging” it per se.

  95. 95.

    MisterDancer

    June 9, 2022 at 10:47 am

    @Kay: She can’r say anything without a hive of middle aged white people descending, screeching that she’s destroying their stodgy, conventional, romanticized view of US history.

    It is a joy to read her! And the detractors are examples of a key point — it’s this mass of White Men (and Women) with Time on Hands that seems to drive so much of the non-bot discourse.

    We really need to know more about these kinds of people, to start disrupting the networks that drive harassing people like Mz. Hannah-Jones. She — among many people — just get drowned in hate, and that’s not by accident.

  96. 96.

    Scout211

    June 9, 2022 at 10:48 am

    Brooks’ opinion piece in the NYT. I don’t have a subscription but the headline sure got my attention:

    The January 6 Committee has already Blown It.

    ETA: What? Pre-disappointment, check. Pre-criticism, check.

    Maybe the opinion piece isn’t as awful as the headline, but seriously?

  97. 97.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @James E Powell:

    His “scientific” theories aside, my complaint was not that he is a bigot. It’s that he’s lazy and sloppy and doesn’t learn anything or prepare before he opines. His pretentious “blog” was hysterical to me because he would write something idiotic on health care- just pull it out of his ass- and his EXTREMELY educated readers would spend the next three days tutoring the dumb, lazy student.

    A lot of work for them! Maybe that was the appeal. They would always know more than he did, because almost anyone does.

  98. 98.

    James E Powell

    June 9, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @Betty:

    My one hope is that the hearings shake the clueless mainstream media out of their horse race coverage. There is just too much at stake for this failure to continue.

    I’m hoping for the same or similar. Just get them to stop treating Republican insurrectionists as a legitimate party with legitimate policies and valid grievances.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 10:50 am

    @Scout211:

    Republicans are circling the wagon.

  100. 100.

    sab

    June 9, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @Kay: I too learned a lot on the Ohio public sector union fight. I guess teachers just can’t help but teach, even when they are just out canvassing with a complete stranger.

  101. 101.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:55 am

    @MisterDancer:

    To say you are for free speech and unconventional views and then to SCREECH for two years that the 1619 project should be shut down is bullshit.

    Why can’t we have the 1619 project and their Right wing 1776 project and maybe some others, too? Who told them they make the rules? This is about control. It’s a bunch of middle aged people who once fancied themselves as unconventional and now are freaking out that there are some GENUINELY unconventional ideas presented.

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 9, 2022 at 10:58 am

    @Baud: “The wagon.”  Ha!

  103. 103.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 10:59 am

    @zhena gogolia: He was going after Palin’s daughter, too. It was just misogynistic and creepy.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 10:59 am

    @sab:

    It’s so funny that I ended up as a defender of teachers because I was always in trouble in school. Deservedly! I would attend..sporadically. It wasn’t mean spirited – I just genuinely did not get what they wanted from me. Couldn’t crack that code. It’s also one of the reasons I defend standardized tests. I would have been screwed without them. You could wave that number around and it forgave a lot of sins.

  105. 105.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 11:01 am

    @Alison Rose : I saw that, and yeah, I don’t get the DOJ decision at all. What worries me is that it might just be Garland being Garland, an opinion I’ve avoided having thus far.

  106. 106.

    MisterDancer

    June 9, 2022 at 11:07 am

    @Bill K: A disturbingly large part of the populace want to be told it’s OK to discriminate and hate. Fox takes advantage of this to capture the audience and feed them Republican propaganda.

    …sort of? I’m going to go aside of your key point, but I’ve been chewing on this for a bit:

    I actually think most people don’t directly hate that much, as people. What does happen, though, is that one asshole — or a network of assholes — can drive behaviors and beliefs. I think, as badly as it’s named, we really do misunderstand mob rule, much less how word-of-mouth drives worldviews.

    That’s accelerated when you live in a culture that has a long history of promoting bigotry. It’s telling how quickly nearly every “conservative” alternative, like Rush Limbaugh, like Fox News, turned to mining prejudice for political and financial power.

    The depressing part of this is that I’m too sure that people like DeSantis and Abbott could give a personal damn about Trans people, or Gay folx, or any of the groups they pour hate upon, in my opinion. That’s how that crooked asshole Texas AG Paxton could have dinner with a family with a Trans kid…and then turn around and sic his dogs on that family.

    THE FUCKER.

    The example of George Wallace is critical here. A lot of these people are driven to speak hate, in order to feel empowered. And that’s power over people like, well, me, as well as the power of being part of the In Group.

    Again, that doesn’t excuse them for their horrific words and actions. And people who are threatened by their words and actions are not in a position to be expected to parse this shit. The above is not a call to make peace with these wankers!

    Ok, I need to stop before I write what clearly needs to be a Front Page post, here, but y’all get the idea. Fox News isn’t training people to hate in a KKK sense (although they pick that up!) — they are training people to use hate as a tool to get a sugar rush, and to be part of a team that votes and advocates for other haters. As I said — mining hate.

    And that’s a horrific, and oft-unspoken, side effect of how White Supremacy spreads so easily in cultures.

  107. 107.

    Cameron

    June 9, 2022 at 11:08 am

    @Steeplejack: Thanks.  I’m advised that I’ve “run out of free articles.”  I wasn’t aware that I ever had any.  Oh, well.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 11:11 am

    ALLENDALE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) — Ryan Kelley, one of the Republican candidates for Michigan governor, has been arrested, the FBI confirmed to News 8.
    The FBI would not immediately say why Kelley was arrested but said details were forthcoming.
    Kelley is a real estate broker. He was previously an Allendale Township planning commissioner but no longer serves on any township board.
    He has faced criticism after being seen at the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol. It’s unclear whether that has anything to do with is arrest.

    More totally normal GOP candidates. I don’t know, if the public doesn’t get this by now I don’t think that is the fault of the production values for the 1/6 hearings.

    There’s some deliberate, delusional ignoring going on. “Everything will be FINE” Okey doke.

  109. 109.

    MisterDancer

    June 9, 2022 at 11:15 am

    @Kay: Oh, no doubt it’s about control!

    I’m reminded of how, post 9/11, asshole historians like Benard Lewis (may his grave be shat upon for a thousand years) were richly paid by Conservatives to generate Islamphobia in Western culture.

    Those opinions, those many, many books — those were Acceptable. They furthered the goals of people like Dick Cheney, to  find excuses to re-assert direct control over the regions we ended up running away from, tails between our legs. And they raised no concerns, caused no mainstream controversy, even as they helped make living in the West horrific for so many — even non-Moslems who got caught up in the bigotry.

    As the horrendous reaction to the Afghanistan pullout shows, we’re still steeped deep in that mindset, that we “have to be in the ‘Middle East'”. And it’s a mindset that’s terrifying of a piece with how we have to reject any version of American history that doesn’t center White Male American governance and historical myth.

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 11:17 am

    @Kay: Even apart from the white-people-flattering content, a lot of people just seem to come unhinged at any suggestion that what they were taught in school wasn’t right, or needs to be revised. Even when it’s an ostensibly neutral topic like mathematics. I think that’s partly because people take it as a challenge to parental authority over children.

  111. 111.

    Alison Rose

    June 9, 2022 at 11:18 am

    @Kay: He didn’t mention Garland or anyone by name, just pointed out why this was “disappoint[ing] and alarm[ing]”.

    (Apologies for all caps, I CPed from the transcript)

    BECAUSE IF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS UNWILLING TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN FLAGRANT CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS, THEN IT’S GOING TO BREED FURTHER CONTEMPT.

    OTHER PEOPLE SIMPLY DECIDING THEY, TOO, DON’T NEED TO SHOW UP. THAT A SUBPOENA IS, WELL, MAYBE I WILL, MAYBE I WON’T. THE REALITY IS BOTH OF THEM HAVE VERY DIRECT EVIDENCE RELEVANT TO OUR INVESTIGATION. BOTH OF THEM HAVE EVIDENCE AND LINES OF QUESTIONS WE WANT TO ASK THEM THAT DON’T INVOLVE ANY CONCEIVABLE PRIVILEGE. SO TO ME THE DECISION OF THE DEPARTMENT IS INEXPLICABLE, AND IT DOESN’T, I THINK, HERALD GOOD NEWS IN TERMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE IF THE DEPARTMENT IS UNWILLING TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OBVIOUS CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS, THEN WHAT ABOUT THE MORE SERIOUS CRIMES INVOLVING THE EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION?

  112. 112.

    germy shoemangler

    June 9, 2022 at 11:19 am

    @Kay:

    Troy’s mayor calls on councilwoman to resign amid ballot fraud investigation

    When I first saw it on TV I didn’t catch the political affiliation of the fraudster. But I assumed she’s a republican. Sure enough I was right. She ran for office on the “conservative” line. The news segment didn’t make a big thing about her politics, just her crime.

  113. 113.

    Steeplejack

    June 9, 2022 at 11:20 am

    @Cameron:

    You can try opening it in a private tab/window.

  114. 114.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 11:22 am

    @MisterDancer:

    I actually think most people don’t directly hate that much, as people. What does happen, though, is that one asshole — or a network of assholes — can drive behaviors and beliefs. I think, as badly as it’s named, we really do misunderstand mob rule, much less how word-of-mouth drives worldviews.

    We could think of it with a systems perspective, like the propagation of a virus, or a nuclear chain reaction. Over a period of many years the ground gets prepared, the critical mass, so that people may not be hating right now but will respond to a hateful message and propagate it. And then the identity of the actual spark is almost irrelevant–something is going to come along.

  115. 115.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 11:32 am

    @Scout211:

    The January 6 Committee has already Blown It.

    I’m sure Brooksie will explain further on tomorrow’s PBS Snooze Hour, after which Jonathan Capehart will dutifully rolleyes before making a weak defense of the committee’s work.

    Next week: Substituting for David Brooks will be the always happy-go-lucky Gary Abernathy. /prolly

  116. 116.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 9, 2022 at 11:35 am

    @Matt McIrvin: People freak out over kids not learning cursive, much less something more substantive. Like they think schools just arbitrarily decide what kids need and where to spend class time

  117. 117.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 11:41 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t know, if the public doesn’t get this by now I don’t think that is the fault of the production values for the 1/6 hearings.

    Hey! You must have been watching Chuck Todd this morning! He worried over the committee bringing in the documentary filmmaker, saying something like, I just hope they’re not trying to “jazz this up”.

  118. 118.

    Timill

    June 9, 2022 at 11:44 am

    @Cameron: You can clear the nyt cookies from your browser and get a new set of free articles.

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 11:46 am

    @Kay: Ryan Kelley was filmed encouraging the crowd to break Capitol barricades during on January 6. Maybe that is what the FBI arrested him for. Kelley cofounded the American Patriot Council during the early pandemic lockdowns. This group organized the armed invasion of the Michigan Capitol that was one one of the inspirations for the January 6 attack.

    Kelley is a canny fellow; he did not follow the crowd into the U.S. Capitol and says he left for Michigan as soon as he heard that Ashley Babbit was killed.

    A DeadlineDetroit article said that a poll taken after several governor candidates were disqualified recently showed Kelley leading the remaining field with 19%.

    Reports are that Kelley and his wife have been popular “lifestyle vloggers” since 2015 and this following helped propel his political career.

  120. 120.

    Leto

    June 9, 2022 at 11:48 am

    @Baud: ​ Not exactly sure how you regulate a pyramid scheme, but I’m sure we’ve learned the appropriate lessons from Enron.

  121. 121.

    Mike in NC

    June 9, 2022 at 11:54 am

    Good to know the fascist scum at FOX “News” call it January 6th ‘theatrics’ as they continue to promote white supremacy and police brutality. U-S-A!

  122. 122.

    germy shoemangler

    June 9, 2022 at 11:55 am

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) isn’t trying to Bern down the Democrats midterm strategy, but he has some candid suggestions and doesn’t think lighting a fire under his colleagues can hurt. In an interview with Burgess, he broke down where he thinks Dems are wrong and his prescription for trying to turn it around. And he’s happy to turn the spotlight on his centrist colleagues in the Democratic caucus who have held up the Democrats legislative agenda time and time again.

    “Say to the American people: ‘Look, we don’t have the votes to do it right now. We have two corporate Democrats who are not going to be with us,” Sanders said. “The leadership has got to go out and say we don’t have the votes to pass anything significant right now. Sorry. You got 48 votes. And we need more to pass it. That should be the message of this campaign.”

  123. 123.

    sab

    June 9, 2022 at 11:58 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I am thrilled to see cursive gone. It is very pretty, but rarely is it legible. I work in small business accounting, and for almost forty years I have been trying to decipher those ink bumps on a page that come from clients.

  124. 124.

    Ken

    June 9, 2022 at 11:59 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I was just explaining new math to my sister and brother-in-law last month. Actually I was explaining old math, since we’d all learned new math and they had no idea it wasn’t always done that way.

    They almost refused to believe how subtraction used to be done (“3 minus 8 is 5 carry one”). I ended up showing them Tom Lehrer’s “New Math” to illustrate.

  125. 125.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 12:00 pm

    @germy shoemangler:

    The first paragraph made me think it was going to be worse than it was.  I didn’t click on the link, but I’m not sure what he thinks the Dems are doing wrong.

    And, too, as a general matter, I am annoyed when people (a lot of people, not just Bernie) articulate their point by “telling the Dems what to say” instead of just making the point themselves.  Really, not just Bernie — everyone does that. Stop being an observer and be a doer.

  126. 126.

    cain

    June 9, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    @JWR: 
    Cheney does something that we wish our own politicians would do. Which just really makes me go blah. She’s committed political suicide but struck by principles. I still don’t like the Cheneys, but must admit that at least this spawn has done good.

  127. 127.

    cain

    June 9, 2022 at 12:03 pm

    @Betty:

    They’ve been doing this for 30 years. It’s a drug that will be hard to shake off. Especially for the older journalists who make some pretty big bucks.

  128. 128.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 12:03 pm

    @cain:

    I don’t want our politicians to commit political suicide.  But you are wrong that they won’t.  See the Obamacare vote.

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 9, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Alison Rose : If I were interviewing Schiff, I would’ve asked two questions:
    1) in his time as a prosecutor, did he ever have what he thought was a clear-cut, air-tight case thrown out by a trial or appellate judge, or undone by a single crack-pot juror

    and

    2) if Garland indicted Meadow and/or Scavino today, how long would it take for the case/s to come to trial, then (assuming a conviction) get through the appellate process, and where he thinks that appellate process would stop (I have a notion on that last one myself).

    I’m not an attorney, much less one who practiced at this level. Chuck Rosenberg is both, and he says the privilege case is not as inconceivable as Schiff suggests. Sometimes, as Mr Bumble observed, the law is a ass.

  130. 130.

    livewyre

    June 9, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: That’s a hugely understated point IMO – systemic analysis of social movement, especially its maladies. On some level, the individual motivation for engaging in hate is irrelevant; it could be cynical manipulation for power, or it could be a visceral response towards a completely inappropriate target, but it pulls on the fabric the same way. I see our goal as not so much to stop isolated individuals from hating as to stop there from being a fence-less pool of hate for them to fall into.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 12:05 pm

    southpaw
    @nycsouthpaw
    First and foremost, we shouldn’t elect a sulking loser as president ever again. But also, imo, the law affords the GSA Administrator, currently @GSAEmily, too much discretion to hobble the transition of power when she’s in the thrall of a sulking loser, and it should be amended.

    I thought that was embarassing and humiliating for the US – that this ridiculous Trumpist was able to hold the transition hostage.
    They need to fix that.
    Give them no discretion and include a quick remedy to remove them if they refuse to do the job.

  132. 132.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 12:08 pm

    @Ken: 

    Is there an actual short video comparing old and new math? I’ve been hearing about it since forever but never looked into it.

  133. 133.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 9, 2022 at 12:08 pm

    @germy shoemangler:

    JOE BIDEN: I’ve been able to close the deal on 99% of my party. [CHUCKLES] Two– two people. That’s still underway. I don’t think there’s been a president who’s been able to close deals that’s been in a position where he has only 50 votes in the Senate and a bare majority in the House. […]

    Look, I need 50 votes in the Senate. I have 48.

    Joe Biden, last October

  134. 134.

    Kathleen

    June 9, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I agree Betty.

  135. 135.

    artem1s

    June 9, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    @Scout211:

    Maybe the opinion piece isn’t as awful as the headline, but seriously?

    It’s Brooks. Of course it’s worse than the headline.

  136. 136.

    Soprano2

    June 9, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    @Kay: Remember the Republican rules: a) You can’t tell me what to do b) I should tell you what to do. Once I read this Twitter thread, it became much clearer to me what they are doing. Thus, their positions that a) Free speech is extremely valuable in our society and b) the 1619 Project shouldn’t be allowed to exist. What they mean when they say “free speech” is “things people like me want to say”.

  137. 137.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 12:14 pm

    @sab:

    I am thrilled to see cursive gone

    I watch Thursday Night Noir on the Movies! channel, and whenever they zoom in on a secret note or other written clue, it’s usually sooo slanted it looks like something other than English. I learned cursive in grammar school, but never used it. I’m one of those all-block-caps print people.

  138. 138.

    James E Powell

    June 9, 2022 at 12:15 pm

    @MisterDancer:

    I think, as badly as it’s named, we really do misunderstand mob rule, much less how word-of-mouth drives worldviews.

    Or how social media accelerates & intensifies what used to require personal or at least phone contact.

    I was shocked at how quickly people around me became experts on the Depp/Heard situation and adopted a “kill the witch” attitude toward Heard. I shouldn’t have been, but I was.

    Full disclosure: I don’t know anything about it either.

  139. 139.

    Soprano2

    June 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    @MisterDancer: People want a target to blame for their problems. Thus all the anger at Biden about gas prices and inflation, even though there’s little he can do about them. People like being encouraged to vent all their anger on a specific target, it makes them feel better and like none of this is their fault. They can say “the reason I didn’t get that job was they had to hire a black person/brown person/woman/other minority”  rather than “who knows why I didn’t get that job, there could be a lot of reasons”.

  140. 140.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    @germy shoemangler: 

    This is hard but I think someone in the Democratic Party has to acknowlege what the Democratic base has lost. Because it really isn’t 2010. They have lost the voting rights act and they have lost Roe. In 2010 you could say you were “up, net” right? That’s how I thought of it. They were going to get creamed on the ACA but we hadn’t lost any rights or big federal laws and the ACA was a net positive.

    But now they’re not. They’re down, net. Obama could say “we’re progressing”. True! That’s much, much more difficult for Biden in terms of our base and what they care about. I know most Americans don’t give a shit about the voting rights act and the reversal of Roe barely gets covered but our base cares.

    I don’t know how one would even broach it but more and more I think the best approach is the bluntest.

  141. 141.

    Ken

    June 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    @Baud: A youtube search for “old math new math” turns up a few, but you may want to approach with caution — I would expect many of them have opinions, given that they’re creating videos about a change that happened fifty years ago. Fluoride will probably sneak in there somewhere.

    EDIT: I checked a couple, and they’re not complaining about the fifty-year-old changes. They’re complaining about (drum roll…) changes that have happened since they finished sixth grade.  So when they say “old math”, they mean what was known as “new math” in the 1970s.

  142. 142.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 12:18 pm

    @Ken:

    Right.  That’s why I was relying on the Great Balloon Juice Internet Sifter to point me to something useful.  But thanks.

  143. 143.

    Kay

    June 9, 2022 at 12:18 pm

    @germy shoemangler:

    Because you CAN rally people by bringing them into “we’re in a tough spot- it’s going backward- we need you” but not if you’re unwilling to admit you’re in a tough spot.

  144. 144.

    James E Powell

    June 9, 2022 at 12:20 pm

    @germy shoemangler:

    Completely agree that the message “We are trying to make everything better, but Republicans are preventing it” followed by a short, maybe three item list of the most popular things.

    Disagree in targeting our two a hole senators because that will not help us win in states in which neither of them are on the ballot.

  145. 145.

    brantl

    June 9, 2022 at 12:21 pm

    @cain: She’s done a lot of bad, too, being right once doesn’t excuse all the rest, including her defense of torture.

  146. 146.

    Soprano2

    June 9, 2022 at 12:21 pm

    @James E Powell: Oh yeah, everyone I work with has that same opinion even though they can’t tell you the first thing about the actual facts in the case, and don’t even seem to know that Depp lost in the U.K. when a judge considered the exact same evidence. I expressed the opinion that in a trial with a judge only it’s decided based on the evidence, while a jury trial like this one is decided based on who the jury likes more. This was an unpopular belief, and got them to quit talking about it around me.

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    June 9, 2022 at 12:24 pm

    I went on twitter this morning.

    I left twitter about 10 minutes later.

    I am speechless, and anyone who sees my comments knows that rarely/never happens.

    The attacks, the concept that 2 yrs later the people on the right still think SFB, or someone like him is what this country needs to turn back time over 200 yrs or anarchy, whichever is easier to get done, is what we need and how dare we question their motives, ideals or methods of an attempted overthrow of everything this country is supposed to be. I wonder if any of them actually have any idea what they are asking for because I can’t see that they do. Rupert Murdoch really, really can not have the slightest idea what he’s done to the world, or if he does, he makes every dictator since time began look like a 10 yr old play acting as a dictator. Also, if you get bitten by the white power spider beware that you brain will melt and you will become an utter monster. And a fucking idiot.

  148. 148.

    eclare

    June 9, 2022 at 12:26 pm

    @Soprano2:   I used to have a White, Xtian, cishet male friend who told me that once.  He said the interviewer told him that.

    I did not believe him for a minute.  We are no longer friends, he got so angry and aggrieved over the period of time that I knew him.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    June 9, 2022 at 12:26 pm

    @James E Powell:

    I don’t mind if Bernie wants to target that message to the young cohorts that follow him. Maybe it’ll help with turnout.

  150. 150.

    StringOnAStick

    June 9, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    @MisterDancer: Exactly so, FOX trains people to use hate to get their sugar rush, because anger is addictive.

    I’ve mentioned my RW anger addicted father many times here; he was an anger addict long before FOX, but once he got cable and ready access to feed his addiction, he couldn’t watch anything else, and I mean anything.  The TV is turned on at 5pm (cocktail hour) and stays on FOX until he goes to bed.  I can no longer talk to him on the phone because he is so primed from his TV to be angry that he turns even the most anodyne conversation into a fight.  So, I switched to emails, mostly with photos of landscapes I’ve taken or describing landscaping projects I am working on now; that had worked until recently, which I think reflects part of the ramping up that FOX is doing as the January 6 presentations get closer.

    I am currently having to do some hard labor making a much bigger drywell because it is flat in front of our house and rain makes water back up to the front door.  I told him my story and what I am doing to mitigate this, so now it has been days of him arguing by email that the rules forbidding gutter runoff from leaving your property are “tyranny”, I should leave it and fight the city over their rules, meaning I should ignore the damage letting runoff pool by the foundation will cause, and as an engineer he knows better but he would rather be angry.  He’s 90 and about to have a heart valve procedure; I’d be lying if I said I would ever miss him when he’s gone, because I won’t.

  151. 151.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 9, 2022 at 12:29 pm

    @James E Powell:

    Disagree in targeting our two a hole senators because that will not help us win in states in which neither of them are on the ballot.

    It might help with turn out in places like FL and NC? and at least the shouty old fool is, for once and at least for the moment, yelling at the right people

  152. 152.

    JWR

    June 9, 2022 at 12:32 pm

    @cain:

    I still don’t like the Cheneys, but must admit that at least this spawn has done good.

    It’s pretty remarkable, actually. But what I find truly remarkable is that taking such a stand is remarkable at all.

    It feels strange to say it, but I just don’t know about this country anymore.

  153. 153.

    artem1s

    June 9, 2022 at 12:34 pm

    @MisterDancer:

    The example of George Wallace is critical here. A lot of these people are driven to speak hate, in order to feel empowered. And that’s power over people like, well, me, as well as the power of being part of the In Group.

    It’s a mistake to think that white women are afraid that Blacks will treat Whites poorly if they take power. The reality is, they are afraid if they don’t act like the racist In Group leader, their white friends will treat them the way they treat Black people.

    It all begins with high school dynamics. The ones who figure out how to use the power of divide and conquer never give it up and they never grow out of it. They are driven to create someone new to bully so they can maintain their position at the top of the pecking order.

  154. 154.

    Geminid

    June 9, 2022 at 12:49 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This argument may help turnout in contested Senate races; it certainly helps fundraising, and that can help turnout.

    Sanders is making an obvious argument that many other Democrats have made and will make. The only difference where he advocates using the term “corporate Dems” to describe Manchin and Sinema. I have a problem with that because I see people in the Sanders wing use this language to stigmatize any and all Democratic politicians who do not toe their particular political line.

  155. 155.

    Gravenstone

    June 9, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    @Kay: Andrew, has anyone invited you to fuck right the fuck off yet today? If not, please allow me to be the first ya poncy git.

  156. 156.

    Soprano2

    June 9, 2022 at 1:23 pm

    @eclare: Because it’s easier to say that than to say “someone else was more qualified” or “the boss liked someone else better”. The truth is that a lot of times hiring comes down to attitude. I can teach skills; I can’t teach a good attitude.

  157. 157.

    Soprano2

    June 9, 2022 at 1:25 pm

    @StringOnAStick:I can no longer talk to him on the phone because he is so primed from his TV to be angry that he turns even the most anodyne conversation into a fight.

    My sympathies, this was my mother. She turned “You could be watching the Olympics” into a fight about the women’s soccer team! I didn’t even mention them! They are aggrieved about literally everything you can name under the sun now, and won’t hesitate to tell you all about it given the smallest opening.

  158. 158.

    Bobby Thomson

    June 9, 2022 at 1:45 pm

    I’m setting my expectations low and hoping the Kelley arrest this morning is a sign of things to come on the criminal side.

  159. 159.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 1:51 pm

    @Ken: Some of the more out-there stuff got pulled back from the curriculum–I don’t think they teach set theory in the primary grades at all any more. But some of the changes to arithmetic instruction were permanent; my daughter got a version of the same “regrouping” explanation of carrying that I got in the 1970s, which was definitely New Math-influenced.

    Fundamentally, having been frightened by Sputnik, they were trying to transition from an approach designed to produce reliable low-level clerks (in a world without electronic calculators) to one in which kids were being taught to think about mathematics like mathematicians–and maybe that was too ambitious a goal, but there was at least a greater emphasis on the ideas.

  160. 160.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 9, 2022 at 1:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not only do Meadows and Scavino have different (and more credible) claims of Executive Privilege, but there is also the fact that DOJ has a policy of not bringing indictments (in this case for Contempt) if there are other means to acquire what they want (Meadows’ texts).  There is a Civil case pending to be resolved soon that will likely compel Meadows to comply and provide the requested documents.  Meadows may also be a target for prosecution of much bigger crimes (like Conspiracy to Obstruct) which could be undercut by charging him with Contempt, at this time.  Former US Attorney Barb McQuade has written about these possibilities.  Schiff and DOJ are doing two related but different jobs and there’s probably a lot that even Schiff doesn’t know about what DOJ is/isn’t doing, and why.  While it is on Congress’ best interest to have Meadows/Scavino indicted for contempt of Congress, it may not be in DOJ’s best interests.

  161. 161.

    rikyrah

    June 9, 2022 at 1:58 pm

    @Kay: 

    Lips so pursed.

  162. 162.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 9, 2022 at 2:01 pm

    (When my daughter was little, I introduced her to a little set theory myself. I remember explaining that sets could be finite or infinite; you could have a set of just about anything you could think of–the set of all even numbers, the set of all houses… and she immediately said “The set of all sets!” I was so proud that as a kid barely out of diapers she’d lunged instantly for the case so big that it actually breaks conventional set theory. Had to restrain myself from going for the Russell paradox.)

  163. 163.

    rikyrah

    June 9, 2022 at 2:03 pm

    @Immanentize:

     

    @Kay: me too. She is really awesome. She has done very good work, has taken so much shit for it, had her planned future derailed by a white supremacist at NC, and then came out of it stronger.

     

    I think it also galls them that she wasn’t ‘cancelled’. That she told UNC to phuck itself, and then went on to be welcomed at Howard, where they have absolutely no say in the least.

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