Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Everybody saw this coming.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Bark louder, little dog.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Democrats are back in array!

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

This fight is for everything.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

T R E 4 5 O N

We won’t go back.

You are here: Home / Jan 6: Hearings / Jan 6 Hearing – Day 2, Part 2

Reader Interactions

212Comments

  1. 1.

    Betty Cracker

    I’ve been wanting details on what happened with BJay Pak for a while. Hope he spills all the tea!

  3. 3.

    MisterForkbeard

    I’m unable to watch realtime, so the comment threads here combined with the Wonkette liveblog are just lovely. Thanks, all.

  4. 4.

    Elizabelle

    Say what you will about Bill Barr, he made an entertaining and compelling witness, as in the clips.  Got straight to the point, without legalese.

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    This hearing is terrible for Giuliani, who richly deserves having whatever tatters remain of his reputation unraveled — he’s being portrayed as what he is, a drunk, obsequious kook.

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    Barr pointing out that Philly’s vote numbers were not out of line, and that Trump as a candidate ran weaker in Pennsylvania than several other GOP candidates.

    Anyone get the impression Barr enjoyed testifying, and taking a 2 by 4 to Trump? (Who had already served Barr’s purpose, and now Barr must deTrumpify himself.)

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    Hearing Giuliani’s words read by someone else … really underscores what a lunatic he is.  They are crazy talk.  Maybe they seem less so, to his Foxbot audience, because of Rudy’s vehemence in delivering them.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    Nice touch showing the ugly messages and tweets Schmidt received, for sticking with the truth.

    Social media.  Frequently is not.

  11. 11.

    Jerzy Russian

    @Elizabelle:   Has Mr.  Guilani been seen wearing his underpants on the outside?  Because that is the only thing left for him to do.

  14. 14.

    Elizabelle

    Ben Ginsberg:  “the 2020 election was not close. … you just don’t make up those sorts of [numbers?] in recounts. “

  15. 15.

    JPL

    This is the same Barr that dismissed the Mueller report, and said it cleared the president.   He might be helpful now, but let’s not forget who he is.    He just thought it was time to throw trump under the bus.

  16. 16.

    Elizabelle

    I’ve been worried about Ben Ginsberg.  He’s a bit of a snake in a suit, although also a non-Trumper.  Was afraid he might hedge a bit.   But no, not yet.

    “the somewhat farcical cyberninjas in Arizona …”

    “in each of those incidences, there was no credible [instances] of fraud …”

  25. 25.

    Elizabelle

    And now:  testimony on Trump grifting his supporters.  They were donating to an entity that never existed!

    Trump has grifted millions upon millions.

    I wonder if that is to ensure he faces criminal charges on fraud in numerous states?

  26. 26.

    Fair Economist

    Oooh, they’re switching to Trump’s fundraising fraud. Bet Fox News cuts away!

  33. 33.

    eversor

    @JPL: 

    Barr flat out said that he was doing what he was doing because of secularists, liberalism, and to protect the faith. He wanted his Christian theocracy, he got what he wanted, and now he’s washing his hands.

  34. 34.

    Elizabelle

    But now we hear to het up ugly stupid white people Trump voters.  Don’t take their Trumpie Bear!

  35. 35.

    Layer8Problem

    Lie about the lost election, get more money from fools, get them riled, and get them to break in to the Capitol and put him back in somehow.

  40. 40.

    Dangerman

    @Betty Cracker: Damn, I thought my cats name was long (Thin Lizzy Borden, as she showed up at my upstairs door emancipated and liked to bat me about the head).

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty Cracker:   Does anyone know how much of the hearings Fox News broadcast today?  Could they cut away that often to My Pillow and gold and survivalist prep merchandise?

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    @Elizabelle: My conservative Southern Baptist preacher grandpa was from Mississippi, and I hear echoes of his accent in Thompson’s. Both can stretch a single syllable into two.

  44. 44.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: Barr is trying to save his own ass and is hoping to have some credibility going forward.  I have no doubt that every single thing Barr says is framed to present himself in the best possible light.

  47. 47.

    JPL

    @JWR: Chris Wallace on CNN just mentioned Barr’s big lie about possible bugs in trump’s office.    I forgot that one.

  50. 50.

    JWR

    Good Lord. Lester Holt on NBC: “Just remember that we’re not hearing any exculpable evidence here.” What evidence is that? Who you gonna put up? Rudy? Sidney Powell? John Eastman? The insurrectionists?

    Both sides, my arse!

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    Interesting.  These hearings provide an opportunity for some witnesses to try to launder their reputations.  But we will not forget the regime they propped up.  And profited from.

    Nice of Liz Cheney to offer congratulations to Bill Stepien on the impending birth.  Since he is involved in her opponent’s primary campaign.  Ms. Cheney will have a long memory.  Or maybe not.  If it’s expedient.

  54. 54.

    Geminid

    @Elizabelle: Elijah Cummings and John Lewis had that speaking style too. Those two are really missed. We are fortunate that Bennie Thomson is still with us, and has gotten his time on the big stage.

  55. 55.

    Leto

    @WaterGirl:  agree with this. He had no problem lying about the Mueller Report, putting out a job application OP ED saying how the President has “teh UltiMAte PoWUH!”, instigating the Durham Sham, etc… fuck him and the Big Mac he rode in on.

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    Katy Tur just made the point that Trump cried fraud in 2016 when he thought Clinton was about to kick his ass. I guess that’s how a malignant narcissist shields his ego — heads I win, tails you lose. I think Mary Trump says he actually comes to believe the lies he tells, not that this mitigates his criminality a whit.

  65. 65.

    Layer8Problem

    @JPL: He wasn’t under oath, but he was for this. He’s a bastard but not an idiot. His long game is being head fixer/enforcer at a conservative “foundation” or senior partner at some Republican white-shoe law firm specializing in legal-and-by-the-book-or-at-least-deniable ratfucking. I could see him accepting junior partner at Wolfram & Hart; he probably loves their work.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    At one point, in the first panel, they had a photo of part of Trump’s “suntanned” face (he was seated), with Slenderman and Steve Mnuchin standing at attention to his side.

    Leaves one thinking:  do any of these individuals look human?

  67. 67.

    M31

    @eversor: He wanted his Christian theocracy, he got what he wanted, and now he’s washing his hands.

    You know who else washed his hands?

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    @Leto: Barr promoted himself and took that job so as to look out for the interests of his buddies at the Federalist Society. Trump was just tool for Barr, to be discarded once Barr got the use out of him.

  70. 70.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Leto: 

    [Barr] had no problem lying about the Mueller Report, putting out a job application OP ED saying how the President has “teh UltiMAte PoWUH!”, instigating the Durham Sham, etc… fuck him and the Big Mac he rode in on.

    Concur 100%.

  71. 71.

    Cmorenc

    @Betty Cracker: 

    Southerner turning one syllable into two isn’t that notable, when some natives of the south (such as my friend Jerald) can effortlessly turn “yes mam” into seven syllables.

    Close as i can phonetically describe in print how he says it:
    Ya-e-ous ma-yeo-um-ah

  72. 72.

    bbleh

    @Elizabelle:  Barr is emerging as the closest to a John Dean equivalent. We see him again and again, he tells the same story in simple terms, and they let him go on at length instead of just using clips.

    I realize he is now Judas to the faithful, but they’re a bunch of sun-addled zealots so who cares about them

    @WaterGirl: And yes, concur, this is the Bill Barr Reputation Rehab tour.  But it doesn’t negate the impact of what he’s saying.

  73. 73.

    Elizabelle

    What these hearings depict about TrumpNation, and the gullible dupes who support it.  (The evil dupes are testifying under oath.)

    Those trying to launder their reputations (or who had no alternative but to appear, under oath):  “Look at the stupid unwashed.  I am not that type of Republican!”

    Zoe Lofgren spoke of those who were fleeced by Trump’s post-election fundraising scams.  Yes, they were victimized.  But if they want to throw their money away, that’s also on them.

    Do you think Trump might face millions in penalties for his scamming?  Lofgren mentioned he’d pulled in $250 million.

  74. 74.

    eversor

    @M31:

    Yep!  And when Trump is jailed (dies) for their dreams (sins) of a Christian nation there is going to be violence.

    The catch is, ultimately there is going to be violence anyways at some point we are going to a combination of The Troubles/Lebanon/regular OKC bombings.  It’s just a question of when we bite the bullet on it.  I say do it now.

  75. 75.

    TriassicSands

    @Elizabelle:

    His low key, soft-spoken demeanor is an asset for this committee chair.

    Two hearings. Great job so far, but, again, not ideal timing.

    Obviously, every American should see these hearings, whether live or recorded, but in the end it’s likely to be a small fraction of eligible voters. And almost no true believers.

    I think of (Malcolm McDowell), Alex in A Clockwork Orange, strapped to a chair with his eyeballs clamped open while being forced to watch witnesses testify to what a criminal Trump is.

    Remember, for Trump, absence of evidence is proof of fraud.

  76. 76.

    lowtechcyclist

    @bbleh: Barr is emerging as the closest to a John Dean equivalent.

    Maybe so, but not very close.  Barr knew exactly what he was getting into when he joined the Trump Administration, he just figured he could use Trump to implement a nefarious agenda of his own.

    Dean, at worst, was just a careerist who woke up in time to where it was taking him.

    Barr remains a snake I wouldn’t trust under any circumstances.

  77. 77.

    eversor

    @Geminid:

    Barr has come out and said, repeatedly, that because America is hostile to “the faith” anything is on the table and that is the only thing that matters.   He’s the same as all the others out there waving their bible and their cross.  Either we roll back everything and institute a theocracy or anything they do is justified, and not only justified we made them do it.

    When he’s talking to his people, he’s a table pounding loon ranting about “the faith” with the best of them.

  78. 78.

    Fair Economist

    ABC News after chat is pretty solid “President Trump was head of Team Whack-Job”, lol!

  79. 79.

    lowtechcyclist

    @eversor:

    The catch is, ultimately there is going to be violence anyways at some point we are going to a combination of The Troubles/Lebanon/regular OKC bombings.  It’s just a question of when we bite the bullet on it.  I say do it now.

    I disagree.  Sure, there’s all too great a possibility of civil unrest, but the longer it can be put off, the less likely it is to happen at all.

    The people on the right who have the guns may be the younger generation of wingnuts, but their numbers are comparatively sparse.  It’s the older voters who give the conservative movement enough of a political presence to legitimize the gun-slingers.  Time is not their friend.

  82. 82.

    pat

    @JWR: 
    doesn’t exculbable mean not guilty?
    So if there is no exculcable evidence, he is guilty??
    Anyone?

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    I care not one whit about the moral failings of any of these witnesses. What’s important is that they are telling the truth and their stories jibe perfectly with each other.

  85. 85.

    Redshift

    @JWR:

    Good Lord. Lester Holt on NBC: “Just remember that we’re not hearing any exculpable evidence here.”

    Plus, it’s picking up the right-wing framing of “let’s pretend this is a trial.”

    It’s not. The purpose is to find and illuminate the truth, they are under no obligation to hunt for every witness and statement who will lie for him.

  86. 86.

    TriassicSands

    @pat:

    Not guilty by reason of severe, disabling psychosis.

    Barr pointed out that if Trump believed the claims of fraud he had lost touch with reality, i.e., was psychotic.

    This is the perfect defense for Trump. He avoids criminal liability by virtue of mental illness. Then, miraculously recovers and admits he now sees that his claims were false. He’s cured!!!

    But could a narcissistic, “stable genius” like Trump ever admit that? Doubtful.

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @JWR: Republicans could have chosen to be on the committee and people could have complied with subpoenas.  If they had wanted a balanced view….   They did not.

  89. 89.

    eversor

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Disagree.  I think the longer you hold back the damn on violence the bigger the mess when it bursts.

    Also in this case “hold back the violence” means not trying or convicting Trump or any of the conspirators.

  90. 90.

    Raoul Paste

    @pat: I thought the same thing, but I think the opposite is the intended meaning.   Holt is suggesting, without evidence, that there is a legitimate defense out there somewhere

  91. 91.

    Betty Cracker

    @pat: I think it’s an accusation that they just told one side of the story.

    ETA: What Raoul said. Hopefully there will be a trial at which Trump can provide “exculpatory” evidence.

  93. 93.

    eversor

    @Redshift:

    Lester Holt has been a registered Republican since 2003.   He’s there for the tax cuts and economic crazy granted, but anything is OK in the service of tax cuts for that type.

  94. 94.

    MisterDancer

    What’s interesting is the reports that Trump’s people were going to do all this counter-programming, “telling the truth,” around these hearings. The usual “flood the zone” BS.

    So far, crickets on that front, aside from the usual ranting. I did notice in twitter trends an uptick in mentions of That Defamation Court Case — make of that what you will.

  95. 95.

    TriassicSands

    Barr Says Trump Was ‘Detached From Reality’

    Irresponsible NYT headline: That is not what Barr said. He said IF Trump believed the fraud claims, he had lost touch with reality.

    For a pathological liar like Trump, endlessly repeating lies has no bearing on whether he believes what he’s saying.

  96. 96.

    StringOnAStick

    @Elizabelle:

    Some producer fed Holt that line, I would guess.  Is Lester Holt that stupid?

    I am starting to wonder if the media is realizing that one conclusion citizens could draw from these hearings is just how worthless the media was during the tRump regime and during the insurrection, and up until now, and… you get the picture.  Some producer fed that to Holt because they are getting nervous.  I’m sure they didn’t expect these hearings to be anything other than the usual 5 minutes of grandstanding/ineffective questioning that congressional hearings tend to be.  Oopsie!

  99. 99.

    Kristine

    So, if Trump’s allies are pushing the claim of some form of diminished capacity, it might keep him from facing trial. But is it enough to block him from running for office?

  100. 100.

    Geminid

    @Omnes Omnibus: Watergirl’s Congressman, Rodney Davis must have been willing because he let McCarthy put him on the original list of Republican members. When Speaker Pelosi rejected two McCarthy pulled them all. Davis is probably very relieved now, because he has a tough primary against Representative Mary Millerr, a Trump endorsee.

    Democrats in Springfield gave Watergirl a great birthday present: they put her in a Democratic congressional district!

  103. 103.

    bjacques

    At the very least, it’s like watching Biden beat Trump yet again…in slow motion.

  106. 106.

    StringOnAStick

    @TriassicSands: True.  However, I think the import of these hearings and of holding them over an extended period is that the news (juicy bits) will get picked up and discussed by the media, including the gossip media, and that information will be leaking into the world of the people who pay no attention to politics.  They wisely put together a multimedia system with nicely sized quotes and memes to be propagated through social media, talking around the water cooler, etc.  That’s who these are designed to reach.  We political junkies will watch paint dry as long as there’s a political angle; reaching those who pay no attention is the key.  So far each day has had a few sharp, meme ready quotes.  Today’s is “the Big Lie was a Big Grift”.  That should get around nicely.

    By the way, I have yet to be able to watch either hearing; I am drawing my conclusions based on reading comments here and on Twitter so that puts me at an arm’s length to see what is rising to the top so far.  I hope to watch both later today.

  108. 108.

    Immanentize

    I have a new theory, not exactly a hot take —

    I think that the most powerful part of today for me was the fraud in fundraising aspect. It was short, but I see the press was all over it afterwards in Qs to Lofgren. It was a new perspective clearly portrayed.

    So my new thought is that the Committee is really seeking to destroy the Trump community — his violent followers prosecuted, his sycophants in the admin. either made to say what was true or called drunks and cranks, revealing Congress critters who sought pardons or worse, his followers who sent him money proved to be chumps. They are demolishing the Trump brand and team. Ivanka I think gets that, Jared does not.

    We shall see if my theory holds up, but it would explain why Ginni Thomas is not a big deal to the Cmmt. — she is a side distraction to this narrative arc. And it is coincidentally the best narrative arc for one certain House member from Wyoming to win. As if I don’t know how they got Ben fucking Ginsberg to testify….

  110. 110.

    StringOnAStick

    And with that, I must go do a bunch of hard labor in the landscape since it’s not raining for the first time in days.  It almost froze here last night!

  111. 111.

    Geminid

    @NotMax: It’s a funny looking district. It runs from Mississippi oposite Saint Louis through Springfield and most of the way to Indiana. It looks like a snake that’s swallowing Champagne County.  Illinois’ Democratic gerrymander was as bad, maybe worse than New York’s, but Springfield Democrats got away with theirs.

  112. 112.

    JWR

    @TriassicSands:

    Barr Says Trump Was ‘Detached From Reality’

    The Reagan defense! During Reagan’s term, Chomsky said something like that about Reagan’s attachment to the truth. Odds are the NYT, (and Barr), are laying the groundwork for an insanity defense, but only because of all the stuff TFG did for them.

  113. 113.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: I think it’s a bit the other way. Barr thought that Trump was an idiot and an easy tool. He worked with W, remember. But Trump really was uncontrollable. Barr could not stop him from criming. And when Trump proved to be totally ungovernable, and demanded Barr take part in the criming, Barr folded, cried, and took his self out (he hoped) in the to have a retirement like Kissinger.

  114. 114.

    Matt McIrvin

    What really upset me through the entire Trump administration, but particularly at this point, was just how easy it seemed to be to alter political reality by just brazenly lying. Trump didn’t even bother with tendentious misinterpretations of fragmentary evidence like Bush’s folks used during the wars. He’d just obviously make shit up off the cuff and that would suddenly be a kind of reality. It was like O’Brien in 1984 talking about how the stars are little holes in a dome.

    It’s nice to see this all get dissected in hindsight even if it’s way too late for it to make a lot of practical difference. Just to see people saying these were lies.

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    @StringOnAStick: Wild weather these days. The Charlottesville, Virginia station I’m listening to just warned of a possible derecho tonight. One blew through here ten years ago and it really tore the state up.

  117. 117.

    Immanentize

    @JWR: there is no real thing like an insanity defense without being completely floridly psychotic. Even then, the win rate is like 15-20%. And you have to have a defendant who will go along with the plan, like Joey ‘Bananas’ Bonanno. Trump is no Bonanno.

    Historic note — Joey’s niece was a friend of mine in college.

  121. 121.

    lollipopguild

    @eversor:  There are thousands of americans that think that God sent trump to run our country as a christian nazi dictatorship. They will believe this until the day they die.

  126. 126.

    bbleh

    @Immanentize: I think you’re right, but as to the “chumps,” they are saying very carefully and repeatedly that “you were lied to.”   That is, they’re giving the chumps an excuse: you’re not the bad guys here; you’re victims too.  That separates the chumps from the rest of Trumpworld: those guys are bad, but you have been used, just like you always are by guys like them.

    Bennie Thompson is one very clever guy …

  128. 128.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TriassicSands: The trouble with the kinds of claims that people like Trump throw out there is that they’re supposed to be, on the one hand, so obviously unbelievable that you shouldn’t even interpret them as literal statements, and, on the other hand, 100% gospel truth. At the same time. Somehow.

  129. 129.

    mali muso

    @Geminid: ​
     I have also heard about the potential for a derecho and am not happy about it. I remember the last one, scary AF, and downed branches and trees everywhere. The electric transformer in front of our (then) apartment building fell sparking on the street. Power was out for about a week; no A/C or fans during the middle of the summer. Fingers crossed we don’t get one.

  130. 130.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: Barr and the Federalist society got their judges and other appointees, and also regulatory favors. Barr knew Trump might screw these up with a less competent AG. He was willing to deal with Trump to further his wealthy sponsors’ interests.

    I think Barr knew Trump for what he was. So did Mitch McConnell. They both put up with Trump’s bullshit to accomplish their political ends.

  131. 131.

    eversor

    @Immanentize:

    Not really.  In interviews, in speeches at colleges, in talking to donors Barr was entirely consistent.   Liberals and secularists had taken Christianity out of America which meant Christians cannot pass down their faith and that is the only thing that matters and this is now a war.

    The economic conservatives hoped to control the monster but the religious didn’t care because it’s an holy war to them.  That’s also why when he was asked about ruining his reputation he straight up said he didn’t care, he was there for something else.

    In the end, the difference between Rod Dreher and Bill Barr is the second is in a position to implement what he wants and the first just screams on twitter.

  134. 134.

    JPL

    @Betty Cracker:  Help me understand the one side that they talk about.   They have his entire inner circle.   I’m sure they would love to have Rudy under oath, but he can’t do that.   I doubt that even crackpot Jenna Ellis wants to testify under oath.

  136. 136.

    Elizabelle

    Ha ha. Now that Trump no longer owns DC’s Old Post Office Building (the grift fka The Trump Hotel), Jose Andres is putting a restaurant in.

    Chef’s kiss.

    Hotel has been renamed the Waldorf Astoria Washington DC.

  137. 137.

    eversor

    @Paul in KY:

    It’s worse than that.   It’s “We are gods elect, we are the right people.  Therefor what we say and do is good and right, and we can get to tell people what to do.  They are not gods chosen and against god, they are the wrong people.  There for what they say is false and evil, and they cannot tell us what to do.”

    What is true and what is right depends on who is saying and doing it.  That is all part of the divinely ordained natural order.  Any violation of that order is demonic, and not to be tolerated.

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    @bbleh: agreed, exactly — the key is separation. Trump has separated them from their money, now the committee  need to separate them from Trump. We know how this works in other situations, if successful, where people would brag on megaphones about giving him $$$, things will start to slow down, donations will dry up, and the braggarts will not be so loud, so proud. Except a bunch of them will continue but their families will feel more powerful against them for bad judgment.

  140. 140.

    Redshift

    @TriassicSands:

    This is the perfect defense for Trump. He avoids criminal liability by virtue of mental illness. Then, miraculously recovers and admits he now sees that his claims were false. He’s cured!!!

    Except that’s not the way an insanity defense works, or everyone would do it. You actually have to be judged not responsible for your actions, and you end up in a psychiatric hospital, and you’re cured when they say you’re cured.

  142. 142.

    TriassicSands

    @StringOnAStick:

    The committee is doing a great job. The media? Not at all.

    There is truth to your pointing out the “trickle down” effect. The problem there is what gets lost in translation, so to speak.

    Most Americans, if it mattered to them, could see the hearings live or recorded. I hope I’m surprised by the final numbers.

  143. 143.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: McGahn and his team were way more important to the judicial nomination efforts than Barr (or Sessions before him). Sure Barr wanted (most of) the Judges Trump chose, but he had very little to do with making that happen.

    McConnell is another story entirely.

  145. 145.

    TriassicSands

    @Redshift:

    Unless, perhaps, you are a former president of the United States.

    So much of the talk now is about corrupt intent. If he believed his claims, then there is no criminality. Which is where I think you missed my point. Both the Times and Post have both stated in headlines that former AG Barr said that Trump “had become detached from reality,” which is an excuse to believe nonsense. But what barr said was that “IF” Trump believed the fraud claims, then….

    So, Trump says he believed them, the accountability averse DOJ accepts that and refuses to prosecute. Trump is free. BUT, let’s face it, to believe that “bullshit” you have to be detached from reality. Hence, psychosis, aka insanity (an inartful term at best, but common).

    Next, Trump says that now he’s come to realize that he was wrong and accepts reality. Hence, cured and fit to run for president again.

    Legal court proceedings never even come into play.

  146. 146.

    Betty Cracker

    @JPL: I’m getting this second-hand because I wasn’t watching that coverage, but Holt’s comment didn’t make any sense. If exculpatory evidence exists, the Trump allies who are fighting subpoenas should show up to provide it instead of stonewalling the committee.

  148. 148.

    TriassicSands

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Der Führer specified that the lies should be so outrageous that people would believe them because no one would make such an outrageous claim if it weren’t true.

    Trump had a good teacher.

    I’d almost believe it if someone claimed that “Mein Kampf” was the only book Trump had ever read cover to cover. But an entire book? Never. Now, the “graphic novel-type” version —  “Mein Kampfchen”(?) — maybe.

  151. 151.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: The point is not to actually demonstrate that *exculpatory evidence exists,* it is just to lodly claim that *exculpatory evidence exists.*

    This sentence works so well with so many things Trump:

    *Voter fraud happened*
    *The Steele dossier was a democrat lie*
    *Russia did not help Trump in the 16 election*
    *The Trump organization didn’t defraud veterans*
    *Trump did not rape women*
    Etc.

  152. 152.

    Paul in KY

    @eversor: That’s the way they see it.  Scary shit!

    The scariest is the abject media pushback all the way to out-and-out lying to help their narrative (Fox, etc.)

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TriassicSands: Except insanity is an affirmative defense.  I can’t imagine that Trump would ever make such an argument.  Besides believing that he had won would not justify the illegal action that followed.

  154. 154.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @zhena gogolia:

    Agreed. And really, folks, we don’t need reminders that the Republican witnesses are bad people. We know that. It’s unlikely that any BJ commenter (or almost any commenter) just fell off the turnip truck.

    The Republican operatives’ testimony is compelling precisely because they’re bad people, and yet the evidence they’re providing against Trump et al. is uniformly damning.

  156. 156.

    eversor

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The illegality of the action has nothing to do if he will suffer consequences though.   That call is going to be made off three things, decorum (look forward not back), if this is a precedent we want to establish, will the ensuing violence and crack up be worth it.

    Ultimate the GOP keeps doing it and it keeps getting worse.   So rip the bandaid off now would be my call.   However, I am sure there will be multiple riots, lethal violence, and OKC level attacks should this happen.   But you either go ahead and deal with that and let the violence happen now or let them keep trying till they get their autocrat.

  158. 158.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @trollhattan: It’s not necessarily the amount of rain — I haven’t been able to find exact numbers, but it may only be in the two-inch range — as much as the thunderstorms drop it in a short amount of time.

    In the burn areas, there’s little/no vegetation regrowth to slow it down enough so that it sinks into the soil, hence flash flooding. Plus the rapid amount of downfall can overload the soil absorption capabilities even under better conditions.

    —

    And happy birthday WaterGirl!

  162. 162.

    TriassicSands

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It’s only the case if there are legal proceedings. As I stated elsewhere, the accountability averse DOJ might opt to accept the “no corrupt intent” excuse (Gosh, folks, we can’t PROVE Trump didn’t believe his claims…) and that’s the end of that. Easy way out.

    Our recent history says we don’t hold presidents accountable and, going back to Ford’s pardon¹, that the country is too fragile to risk a major constitutional crisis. Reaffirmed in Bush v. Gore.

    ¹ Decades of avoidance later, we really are fragile.

  163. 163.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @eversor: 

    In my experience, the people who call the most loudly for violence–preemptive or otherwise–are seldom part of the vulnerable groups who will be hurt first.

  164. 164.

    Ohio Mom

    @Omnes Omnibus: That was the Rude Pundit’s conclusion as well: “Liz Cheney may be a plague, but Trump is a poison. Stop the thing that acts faster before going after a cure for the other.”

  165. 165.

    JWR

    Here’s a quote from Lester Holt near the beginning of today’s hearing, (from my own veryvery accurate transcription from Twitter):

    It’s important for us to keep pointing out this is not a legal proceeding we’re watching here no one is standing trial, but if you watched Thursday night’s hearing there was no mistaking that one man is the focus of the investigation, DT.

    So he’s apparently reminded us repeatedly about this thing we already knew. Is he under the impression lots of people think that’s what these hearings are? (They’re not called The Trial of TFG fer nothin’, Les.)

  166. 166.

    NotMax

    ‘@JWR

    All roads lead to Rome, as the saying goes.

    Insurrectionists on January 6th weren’t waving Rudy flags.

  167. 167.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    I’m very late to the party, and this is very irrelevant, but who was the guy who testified from his bathroom??? I’m sure he thought it was clever & subtle & all, with the shower fixtures & panda shower curtain in the background showing contempt for the committee, but on national TV he came across as a childish and unserious doofus.

  171. 171.

    The Lodger

    @Elizabelle: Barr realizes the market for Republicans who can swing pithy (if not really truthful) quotes is opening up. I see a CNN or NBC gig in his future.

  172. 172.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @The Moar You Know:

    A large percentage of the [insert: white] middle class of this nation could be classified as such.

    IOW, they’re not part of the most vulnerable classes who would be hurt first, as I stated. :)

  175. 175.

    Miss Bianca

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    In my experience, the people who call the most loudly for violence–preemptive or otherwise–are seldom part of the vulnerable groups who will be hurt first.

    Yeah, funny how that works, isn’t it?

  178. 178.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TriassicSands: Ah, you are starting from a premise that the DOJ is accountability averse.  I disagree.  I doubt we will find common ground on this.

  181. 181.

    Hildebrand

    @TriassicSands: Trump will never admit to being wrong – even about patently obvious nonsense.  For him, any admission of making a mistake is worse than anything the lie might bring about.

  185. 185.

    JWR

    @KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)):

    but who was the guy who testified from his bathroom???

    Yikes! He really did use his bathroom? I wasn’t watching, just listening during his testimony, and thought the questions about it here had to do with the extra reverberation. (Maybe he was taking more than just one dump?)

    ; )

  187. 187.

    WaterGirl

    @bbleh: @Immanentize:

    You guys have pointed out my two biggest takeaways from today: the $250 million in (hopefully) fraudulent donations and the clear shout out at the end – you believed T****, you were lied to and you were taken advantage of.  You are not bad people, we are not coming for you.

  188. 188.

    WaterGirl

    @mali muso: So a tornado without the twister part?

    My huge tree was taken down by straight-line winds that came out of nowhere.  Crazy that something you can’t even see can topple a 7′ diameter tree.

    (see 9 years ago)

  190. 190.

    TriassicSands

    @Hildebrand:

    What’s ironic about that is that he won’t admit to being wrong, but he does, at times, admit to being guilty. Someone pointed that out the other day — possibly J. Rubin in the Post. He’ll admit to doing something, then characterize it as perfectly OK.

    On the other hand, in the fantasy world Trump inhabits, everything is what he says it is. He can admit something, then claim he didn’t, or claim it wasn’t an admission of error, etc. He’s truly a bizarre character.

    In the end, we’ve probably never dealt with someone who is such a moving target. If this comes down to corrupt intent, I see no barrier for Trump using the “I really believed it,” excuse. But, if that led to him being seen as unfit to being president ( again), I could imagine him, on further reflection and with access to new (imaginary) evidence, deciding that — big surprise coming — he was misled by trusted advisors, blah, blah, blah.

    I just don’t think a normal person with a reasonable intellect and a conscience can hope to keep up with what Trump is capable of.

    We’ll see.

  192. 192.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: Sorry. I could have phrased that better, like: soon to be ex-congressman.

    Happy Birthday, and many thanks for what you do here!

  193. 193.

    TriassicSands

    @Omnes Omnibus:  I doubt we will find common ground on this.

    Perhaps not, but I look at something like the Mueller investigation. Based, not on any definitive constitutional judicial determination¹, but simply on an “opinion” that a sitting president might not be indictable, Mueller proceeded as if Trump could not be indicted. However, the only way to know that is to test it.² Mueller didn’t. Garland seems every bit as conservative and traditional as Mueller.

    We’ve made ourselves weak and fragile by refusing to push for real accountability.

    ¹ Where, oh textualists, does the Constitution say a sitting president can’t be indicted, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. During that process — impeachment and removal from office. A mess? You bet. But unconstitutional?

    ² Admittedly, today’s SCOTUS would be a bad place to test any issue that can be seen as partisan. That said, impeaching Trump twice was the right thing to do even though there was never a chance of conviction. The rule of law is the paramount issue here.

    Gotta go.

    Happy Birthday, again, WaterGirl and thank you for all your work.

  194. 194.

    Ohio Mom

    @KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)): It was Eric Hershmann, who was a White House attorney (if I knew how, I would give you a link to the Aaron Rupar tweet that shows Hershmann testifying).

    Was that a bathroom, I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I thought the silver things on the wall were maybe some sort of sculpture and the panda image a painting. But who knows?

    Most of the people testifying were in strange and ugly environments — where is Ivanka for instance, up against a blank wall like she’s practicing to be in a line-up?

    No accolades from Room Rater for this crowd, except perhaps for Liz Chenney’s cozy log cabin scene (yes, we know you’re from the rugged old west, Liz, you don’t have to lay it on so thick).

  198. 198.

    A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)

    @JWR: Are there “mitigating circumstances” recognized in regard to sedition? I’m thinking “no”.

  199. 199.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @WaterGirl: 
    That fraudulent fundraising might just be a hook to catch TFG. He had to pardon Steve Bannon for “We Build the Wall” and nobody’s going to pardon him now.

  200. 200.

    NeenerNeener

    @eversor:  But what kind of “Christian” theocracy? There are a lot of flavors of “Christianity” and none of them think the other flavors are legit.
    Won’t the Evangelicals riot if Barr creates a Catholic theocracy? They don’t seem to have noticed yet that our Supreme Court is heavily Catholic but at some point the Fundie and Catholic interests will diverge.

  202. 202.

    Elizabelle

    @Ohio Mom:

    yes, we know you’re from the rugged old west the wilds of Bethesda, Maryland, Liz

    Fixed it for you

    ETA:  Maybe Potomac, MD.  Maybe McLean, VA.  But:  where very rich Republicans live.  In the close in DC suburbs.  I have never been sure of the Cheney family’s undisclosed location, nor cared.

  204. 204.

    ema

    @Elizabelle:

    Nice of Liz Cheney to offer congratulations to Bill Stepien on the impending birth.

    Sapien’s Wife: Hi Dr. Ob/Gyn, I’ve been having contractions for many hours and/or I think my water broke.

    Dr. Ob/Gyn: Come on in for observation. [Notes in chart “R/O active labor.]

    Sapien: Cannot testify because wife” went into labor,” as officially documented in the chart.

    Note how long it takes from today to the actual delivery to test my scenario.

  207. 207.

    ema

    @WaterGirl:

    Maybe but why even bother with that when all you have to do is pretend you’re having symptoms, stay under observation for a few hours (coincidentally, during the scheduled testimony), and then return home and carry on.

  208. 208.

    kmax

    Baby or no baby, the recorded testimony for Stepian was probably just a good as watching him dance live.  Maybe better.

    ETA – HBTY Watergir

    ETA ETA – was anyone else as pleased as me to see them get his testimony edited and ready so quickly… maybe they are really smart and had backup ready in case these people bailed unexpectedly.  Are they this smart?

  210. 210.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    @JWR: 
    You could see the shower handles and shower curtain (with a panda on it) behind him. Seriously.

  212. 212.

    Etv13

    ‘@KaylaMD: I don’t think those were shower fixtures, and the so-called “shower curtain was in the same plane with them, which it would not have been in an actual shower. Based on the light fixtures, I would say it was some kind of art gallery. Whether it was real or virtual, I couldn’t say. It was, I grant you, pretty strange, especially as a backdrop to sworn testimony in a Congressional investigation.

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