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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: Snippets from Ukraine (and Other Troubled Nations)

Open Thread: Snippets from Ukraine (and Other Troubled Nations)

by Anne Laurie|  June 13, 202212:56 am| 38 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, War in Ukraine

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Not to step on Adam’s turf, but his extensive professional updates can’t include every twitter gem…

The students of Kharkiv's School No. 134 dressed up and performed to a popular Ukrainian song ‘Mriya’ in front of the ruins of their school that was destroyed during Russian invasion pic.twitter.com/EwsQlUGgFh

— Reuters (@Reuters) June 9, 2022


The uniforms of Ukrainian volunteer fighters Oleksandr Zhuhan and Antonina Romanova bares a rare distinction, the image of a unicorn sewn into its standard-issue epaulets. Zuhan says the mythical beast carries an important message for LGBTQ soldiers https://t.co/deLTRANpjA pic.twitter.com/1ltGv6LMzb

— Reuters (@Reuters) May 31, 2022


(Explainer:Ox-hour shrine visit curse)

After winning the Nobel Peace Prize last October, the Russian journalist Dmitri A. Muratov said he thought the honor should have gone to a different Russian: the jailed opposition leader Aleksei A. Navalny.

Mr. Muratov, the editor of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta (who shared the prize with the journalist Maria Ressa of Rappler, a news outlet in the Philippines), later announced that he would donate his roughly $500,000 in prize money to support various charitable causes….

On June 20, the medal will be sold in New York by Heritage Auctions. All proceeds will go to UNICEF, to help children who are refugees from Ukraine…

Elsewhere…

"As a taxpaying American – and someone who cares about world peace – I would just feel a lot more comfortable if Ukrainians were okay with being shot over mass graves while having their children kidnapped en masse and their food stolen or destroyed by Russia." pic.twitter.com/DFYFon2t0m

— Peter Wolf (@peterawolf) June 6, 2022

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Previous Post: «Medium Cool with BGinCHI – What Are We Watching? Medium Cool with BGinCHI – What Are We Watching?
Next Post: War For Ukraine Day 108: The Donbas Campaign Continues On Its Slow Course War For Ukraine Day 97: Ukraine Coordinates a Retreat In the East While Counterattacking In the South 3»

Reader Interactions

38Comments

  1. 1.

    Alison Rose

    June 12, 2022 at 9:06 pm

    That video of Oleksandr and Antonina made me cry. Brave brave people, and I’m glad they were welcomed by their fellow fighters.

  2. 2.

    brendancalling

    June 12, 2022 at 9:10 pm

    Those kids deserve better than that.
    putin khuylo.

  3. 3.

    SpaceUnit

    June 12, 2022 at 9:17 pm

    My brain is glitching over that last exchange.  Somebody explain to me what neoliberal identitarian means.

    I must have skipped class that day.

     

    ETA:  Who exactly is being critical of Americans weighing in on the conflict in Ukraine?  I mean, other than Putin.

  4. 4.

    sdhays

    June 12, 2022 at 9:21 pm

    @SpaceUnit: My guess is that it’s something to do with accepting that Ukrainians aren’t confused Russians.

  5. 5.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 9:22 pm

    @SpaceUnit: inorite?

  6. 6.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 9:22 pm

    @SpaceUnit: Lefties are such asses about this.

  7. 7.

    SpaceUnit

    June 12, 2022 at 9:27 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m going to sniff some glue and stand on my head.  Maybe this will all make more sense to me.

  8. 8.

    Alison Rose

    June 12, 2022 at 9:33 pm

    @SpaceUnit: Rotating tag

  9. 9.

    Mathguy

    June 12, 2022 at 9:37 pm

    @Alison Rose : Seconded.

  10. 10.

    SpaceUnit

    June 12, 2022 at 9:43 pm

    Thanks for the honor, but I’m just trying to figure out that conversation.

     

    It sounds like an argument between Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Sullivan.

  11. 11.

    Ken

    June 12, 2022 at 9:49 pm

    @sdhays: Sometimes there’s also suggestions that the U.S. somehow tricked Russia into invading Ukraine.

  12. 12.

    Mike in NC

    June 12, 2022 at 9:56 pm

    @SpaceUnit: We could watch Airplane! twice a month and never get tired of it. Same goes for Naked Gun.

  13. 13.

    SpaceUnit

    June 12, 2022 at 10:02 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Yeah.

    I’m not trying to be clever.  I just don’t understand.

  14. 14.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2022 at 10:03 pm

    the Russian journalist Dmitri A. Muratov said he thought the honor should have gone to a different Russian: the jailed opposition leader Aleksei A. Navalny.

    Uhh….

    I guess I can appreciate what Muratov is doing, but I am 100% certain that had Navalny been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, he would not be auctioning off the medal to benefit Ukraine.

  15. 15.

    Alison Rose

    June 12, 2022 at 10:06 pm

    @Ken:  Someone needs to tell them the physicians’ adage: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. Of course, to any of these dodos, it’s ALL ZEBRAS ALL THE TIME apparently.

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    June 12, 2022 at 10:27 pm

    @SpaceUnit: Twitter is horrible for nuanced conversation.

    https://twitter.com/lfeatherz is her feed.  She writes for TheNation, TheNewRepublic, Jacobin.  She’s retweeted praise of St. Bernard (“TheDemocrats are in a nosedive…”).

    HTH a little.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  17. 17.

    Tony G

    June 12, 2022 at 10:29 pm

    @SpaceUnit: “neoliberal identitarian”.   I love the way these True Supporters of the Working Class chronically use arcane jargon like unusually pompous grad students.  As for their invocation of “proxy war” — I’d have a tiny bit of respect for these clowns if they’d just openly say that the Ukrainians should have immediately surrendered on February 25th.  Instead we get all these weasel words.  Two guys for whom I once had a little bit of respect — Saint Noam Chomsky and the Reverend Chris Hedges — are among the worst of the bunch.

  18. 18.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:36 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Did you hear Navalny’s speech in court the other day?

  19. 19.

    pat

    June 12, 2022 at 10:37 pm

    I continually have to wonder how the west, the EU, NATO, the US, can watch a sovereign democratic country be shelled into rubble and just …. send weapons and hope for the best.

    And wonder who’s next in the grand scheme to recreate Peter the Great’s great country.   Georgia? Moldova?  Finland?  When will they actually have to break out the real defenses?  And not just confiscate more million-dollar yachts.

    I do not claim to know what should be done, but for gods sake can’t we at least send more weapons faster?

    I always look forward to Adam’s summary but it gets harder all the time to read it without a real feeling of depression.

  20. 20.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:42 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Excerpt:

    Вообще непонятно, зачем вы ее ведете. Для чего мы ведем эту войну? Чтобы заставить их сделать что? Мы взяли просто сорокамиллионный народ, объявили: «Они нацисты!» — и начали их бомбить. Что они должны сделать, чтобы от них отстали? Вот представьте себе ситуацию: живет в городе Харькове человек, скажем даже, судья, судья в городе Харькове — миллионный город, огромный город. Он живет себе в большом городе, прекрасно работает судьей, собирается с утра отвести ребенка в детский сад, а потом поехать кого-то судить. И в один прекрасный день, 24 февраля, например, его объявляют нацистом, ему в дом прилетает ракета, убивает его ребенка, и он бегает, как ненормальный, и не понимает, что ему нужно сделать, чтобы от него отстали вы и ваша власть. И я, безусловно, в том числе готов сидеть здесь в тюрьме, чтобы доказать всему миру и самому себе, самое главное, что не все в России такие чокнутые, ненормальные, извращенцы и кровопийцы, которые просто непонятно за что, непонятно для чего убивают людей и сами гибнут. Вы знаете, что здесь, во Владимирской области…

  21. 21.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2022 at 10:43 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I did not.

  22. 22.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:43 pm

    @zhena gogolia: It was his appeal on May 25. Excerpt:

    Вообще непонятно, зачем вы ее ведете. Для чего мы ведем эту войну? Чтобы заставить их сделать что? Мы взяли просто сорокамиллионный народ, объявили: «Они нацисты!» — и начали их бомбить. Что они должны сделать, чтобы от них отстали? Вот представьте себе ситуацию: живет в городе Харькове человек, скажем даже, судья, судья в городе Харькове — миллионный город, огромный город. Он живет себе в большом городе, прекрасно работает судьей, собирается с утра отвести ребенка в детский сад, а потом поехать кого-то судить. И в один прекрасный день, 24 февраля, например, его объявляют нацистом, ему в дом прилетает ракета, убивает его ребенка, и он бегает, как ненормальный, и не понимает, что ему нужно сделать, чтобы от него отстали вы и ваша власть. И я, безусловно, в том числе готов сидеть здесь в тюрьме, чтобы доказать всему миру и самому себе, самое главное, что не все в России такие чокнутые, ненормальные, извращенцы и кровопийцы, которые просто непонятно за что, непонятно для чего убивают людей и сами гибнут. Вы знаете, что здесь, во Владимирской области…

  23. 23.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:44 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I keep trying to excerpt it, but my comment doesn’t go through. He condemned the war in vehement terms and predicted a hot time in hell for the Russian authorities.

  24. 24.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:44 pm

    Вообще непонятно, зачем вы ее ведете. Для чего мы ведем эту войну? Чтобы заставить их сделать что? Мы взяли просто сорокамиллионный народ, объявили: «Они нацисты!» — и начали их бомбить. Что они должны сделать, чтобы от них отстали? Вот представьте себе ситуацию: живет в городе Харькове человек, скажем даже, судья, судья в городе Харькове — миллионный город, огромный город. Он живет себе в большом городе, прекрасно работает судьей, собирается с утра отвести ребенка в детский сад, а потом поехать кого-то судить. И в один прекрасный день, 24 февраля, например, его объявляют нацистом, ему в дом прилетает ракета, убивает его ребенка, и он бегает, как ненормальный, и не понимает, что ему нужно сделать, чтобы от него отстали вы и ваша власть. И я, безусловно, в том числе готов сидеть здесь в тюрьме, чтобы доказать всему миру и самому себе, самое главное, что не все в России такие чокнутые, ненормальные, извращенцы и кровопийцы, которые просто непонятно за что, непонятно для чего убивают людей и сами гибнут. Вы знаете, что здесь, во Владимирской области…

  25. 25.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:45 pm

    живет в городе Харькове человек, скажем даже, судья, судья в городе Харькове — миллионный город, огромный город. Он живет себе в большом городе, прекрасно работает судьей, собирается с утра отвести ребенка в детский сад, а потом поехать кого-то судить. И в один прекрасный день, 24 февраля, например, его объявляют нацистом, ему в дом прилетает ракета, убивает его ребенка, и он бегает, как ненормальный, и не понимает, что ему нужно сделать, чтобы от него отстали вы и ваша власть. И я, безусловно, в том числе готов сидеть здесь в тюрьме, чтобы доказать всему миру и самому себе, самое главное, что не все в России такие чокнутые, ненормальные, извращенцы и кровопийцы, которые просто непонятно за что, непонятно для чего убивают людей и сами гибнут.

  26. 26.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:46 pm

    Is it just because of Cyrillic? Testing. Я готов

    Okay, it’s not because of the Cyrillic. I don’t have patience to type it out. Here’s the link:

    https://navalny.com/p/6623/

  27. 27.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2022 at 10:49 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Edit window closed.

    Call me when Navalny says the word “Ukraine.” I won’t wait up.

  28. 28.

    Ohio Mom

    June 12, 2022 at 10:52 pm

    @pat: Soon after Russia invaded, I said in a comment that I could not see this ending well for Ukraine; Adam told me not to count the Ukranians out.

    But I still can’t see this ending well, short of aliens beaming Putin up into their flying saucer and flying off to their home. Then it will depend on whether there is someone in Russia who will be willing to negotiate with the rest of the world.

  29. 29.

    zhena gogolia

    June 12, 2022 at 10:53 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: He says it multiple times in the speech.

  30. 30.

    phdesmond

    June 12, 2022 at 11:10 pm

    OT.  historian Heather Cox Richardson says this in her nightly newsletter:

    Today in the New York Times, columnist Maureen Dowd reacted to Thursday’s revelations that Trump was “deadly serious about overthrowing the government,” by laying out the main points: Trump knew he had lost the election, and he was willing to see his vice president hanged in order to avoid being labeled a loser. Dowd called former president Trump an “American monster” and compared him unfavorably to Frankenstein’s monster, who at least “has self-awareness, and a reason to wreak havoc…[and] knows how to feel guilty and when to leave the stage.” Our monster, in contrast, is driven only by “pure narcissistic psychopathy—and he refuses to leave the stage or cease his vile mendacity.”

  31. 31.

    Another Scott

    June 12, 2022 at 11:17 pm

    On a lark, I decided to see what Bellingcat has been reporting about Ukraine. And I found this piece from April 15:

    […]

    The division to date between some prominent Russian QAnon channels, their compatriots and global counterparts over the invasion of Ukraine has surprised some observers.

    “Over the past two years in particular, there has been broad convergence among Russian and global Q communities on their response to COVID,” said Ciaran O’Connor, a disinformation and extremism researcher with the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, a London-based think tank that researches disinformation, hate and extremism online.

    But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was something QAnon communities, especially in Russia, didn’t expect to happen, O’Connor told Bellingcat. For example, QAnon Russia stated on February 16, just over a week before the invasion started, that there “definitely won’t be a war.”

    The divergent reaction from many Russian QAnon communities — and indeed between different Russian QAnon channels themselves — reflects “a sign of conflict and contradictions with these communities over how to respond,” said O’Connor. “They struggle to find a position regarding Ukraine that sits well with their conspiratorial worldview.”

    As the weeks and months of Russia’s brutal invasion drag on, even one of the pro-war Russian QAnon channels has begun to show signs of struggle, criticising their QAnon brethren — and even Putin himself. “Putin is not a hero who decided to destroy the dollar and the West,” Russia’s most popular, and the generally pro-war, Big Shock Theory channel told its more than 100,000 subscribers on April 9.

    “When you hear someone say things like ‘Russia’s fighting the Great Reset’ or ‘Russia’s defeating the Globalists,’ it’s a clear sign they don’t understand what the Great Reset even is,” the channel wrote the next day. “Are we supposed to believe Putin doesn’t know COVID-19 vaccines are deadly?…And why is Putin still promoting vaccines and booster shots?”

    “Claiming that Putin…has lost his temper and is looking to stop the Great Reset is like saying an actor in a play is about to go off script,” the channel’s post continued, “or that a game show contestant is about to bring down the host.

    “It doesn’t make any sense,” it concluded.

    VVP seems to be having more trouble controlling his various monsters…

    I had no idea QAnon was not just an American thing. Of course, I knew about trolls at the IRA in St. Petersburg feeding the US paranoia, but the idea that there were QAnon ‘branches’ in Russia, Italy, Germany, etc., just seemed inconceivable. The world is getting smaller all the time…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  32. 32.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2022 at 11:24 pm

    @zhena gogolia: He doesn’t say it even once. I’ve listened to the speech twice. He never says “Украина.”

  33. 33.

    Timill

    June 12, 2022 at 11:30 pm

    @Alison Rose : It’s quaggas all the way down…

  34. 34.

    Ruckus

    June 13, 2022 at 12:36 am

    @SpaceUnit:

    “It sounds like an argument between Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Sullivan.”

    Bravo

    “I just don’t understand.”

    You aren’t supposed to, it’s just bullshit.

  35. 35.

    WaterGirl

    June 13, 2022 at 7:55 am

    @zhena gogolia: All of your comments went into SPAM because a lot of spam is in cyrillic.

    I told WordPress that you are not spam, so next time you post in cyrillic it should let you through.

    Maybe do a test so we can be sure?  And then let me know whether it goes through or you get snagged as spam?

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    June 13, 2022 at 8:09 am

    @Gin & Tonic: He says it at least twice in the excerpt I linked to.

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    June 13, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    И эти войны, помимо того что, естественно, мы убиваем невиновных людей непонятно за что, — мы уничтожаем тем самым русский народ. Как я уже сказал, во Владимирской области, где я сижу, — здесь все руководство Росгвардии погибло, четыре подполковника, они мертвы. То есть понимаете, это одновременно скрывается и одновременно абсолютно все об этом знают. А почему их убили? Потому что один сумасшедший вцепился в эту Украину. Непонятно, что он хочет сделать, я не знаю, что он хочет с ней сделать.

    Relevant passage:

    And why did they kill them [four lieutenant colonels]? Because one insane man has seized upon that Ukraina. It’s incomprehensible what he wants to do, I don’t know what he wants to do with it.

  38. 38.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 13, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @zhena gogolia: OK, I sit corrected. I did not hear it in what I listened to, which I had assumed was his whole speech.

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