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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Gouging!

Gouging!

by | 171 Comments

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I see these stickers everywhere out here in redlandia (this shot is from last December), and I’m sure Fox and Co-conspirators are pushing the line that gas prices are all sleepy Joe’s fault. Still, I’ve had a few conversations with Republicans who are beyond blaming Biden for gas prices. One person cited the discrepancy between crude prices and gas prices, which are usually closely tied together. Others cite the food price hikes at local grocery stores, which don’t match the price hikes from retailers in other, bigger cities. It’s clear to these people that corporations are using inflation as an excuse to raise prices.

Back in olden times when inflation was a problem, politicians would trot out a few egregious examples of corporations ripping off the public and make examples of them. They used to call it “price gouging.” Whether or not that political attack was effective, it sure didn’t hurt, since nobody likes oil companies. Similarly, in these modern times, cell phone companies are another juicy target:

MVNO stands for Mobile Virtual Network Operator, which are cell phone companies that don’t own their own network, like Boost, Red Pocket, Total Wireless and others. Everyone knows that AT&T’s huge network didn’t all of a sudden get way more expensive to run because of inflation.

Both the gas price and cell phone “price gouging” charges are easy to understand and should be simple to articulate. They can also be accompanied by action by some regulatory body that probably won’t do much, but it will at least call out the true cause of some of the misery caused by price gouging. And, from my extensive anecdotal research, people will believe it.

Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    mistermix

    Here’s another example of the all-purpose use of the “I did that” sticker, for those of you who read the comments.

  2. 2.

    debbie

    I would almost create an alternate sticker to slap alongside these: “Nope your man Trump did that. And a whole lot else.”

  3. 3.

    Served

    It kind of feels like this type of exploitative “inflation” is getting wrapped up with other recent society-upending events (COVID, Trump in general) and leaving people feeling powerless. Same with the economic mood despite individual satisfaction. Add in other political and existential crises (global warming), and it is really overwhelming.

    I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s a kind of malaise and resignation that feels really unhealthy for a society. This issue, at least, seems addressable with some grandstanding, calling-out, and regulatory action.

    On the subject of MVNOs, if you are fine with paying for a device out of pocket, I really recommend Cricket (AT&T) or Visible (Verizon) for mobile service. They are actually run by the service provider. Much cheaper, month-to-month, but with reliable and fast data. You miss out on the extremely high tier speeds, but the savings make up for it. I pay $25 a month for Visible using a Party Pay code I found on Reddit.

  6. 6.

    oatler

    morning Sinclair ABC affiliate is all over rising gas prices. They’re a step away from asking Paul Gosar for his “take” .

  8. 8.

    Leto

    Louisiana setting the standards for the nation: INVESTIGATIVE UNIT: Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

    PONCHATOULA- It’s one of the most egregious cases victims’ advocates tell the WBRZ Investigative Unit they have ever seen, after a judge awarded full custody to a woman’s abuser and forced her to pay child support.

    This story dates back decades and involves a woman who was raped at the age of 16 by a man almost twice her age.

    I guess read the whole thing after you’ve taken your bp meds.

  10. 10.

    NotMax

    ‘@oatler

    “It’s al those goldang electric cars. Refiners have no choice but to increase prices to barely squeak by on the same profit from lesser sales volume!”

    //

  12. 12.

    Anthony

    At my company, the CEO is telling salespeople to “get price”. So, yes, after many many years of companies being afraid to raise prices, they’re going after “price” with gusto.

  13. 13.

    MazeDancer

    For those being ATT price gouged, can rec Visible by Verizon. Totally unlimited everything including data.

    It is $40 bucks a month. And if you take 2 minutes to click around website to join Party Pay, goes down to $25.

    I run my entire internet off of it for savings. But that won’t work for people who live with others and are willing to pay big bucks for convenience. Though 2 people could do 2 lines and pull it off.

  14. 14.

    Tony G

    @mistermix: About 25 years ago, many American consumers — in their wisdom — increased their purchasing of gas-guzzling SUVs and massive trucks — most of which were never used to haul anything heavier than groceries — because they chose to believe advertisers who told them that these vehicles would enhance their sex appeal.  This was at a time when the dangers of climate change were widely communicated and well known to anyone who was paying attention.  Now these people are whining because it costs more to fill the gas tanks of their ridiculously overgrown vehicles.  A nation of children who never grew up.  They are the problem.  People like Trump, Abbot and DeSantis are just symptoms.

  15. 15.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    It goes without saying that the Conservatives, the group that believes in small government, is demanding the government do price fixing. Gods, are these people so tiresome with their childish view of the world.

  16. 16.

    Redshift

    I tend to be a bit skeptical of price-gouging as a cause of inflation (not against using it as a political tactic, just about whether it’s actually true.) Believing there’s an evil CEO somewhere intentionally making things worse rather than nebulous “market forces” verges on serving the same purpose as conspiracy theories (though much less harmful) — a way of making the world make more sense than it really does.

    But the Economic Policy Institute had some good analysis showing that it really is true for this run of inflation (and also that rising wages and government pandemic spending are not the cause.) It may still be that it’s market forces allowing this and our business culture of “always take the maximum you can get without regard to the harm it does” rather than specific CEOs intentionally being evil, but it’s real.

  18. 18.

    Redshift

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    It goes without saying that the Conservatives, the group that believes in small government, is demanding the government do price fixing. Gods, are these people so tiresome with their childish view of the world.

    And it’s somehow worse that the conservatives in power don’t actually want the government to fix it, which is why they’re blocking things like a windfall profits tax, they just want to tell their supporters that the government could fix it and isn’t, and that’s all the fault of Democrats.

  19. 19.

    gvg

    People always like to blame price gouging every time prices go up. I have seen it my whole life. Price gouging does happen, but I don’t think most of the price rises are gouging and going after “gouging” won’t do diddly about rising prices. There are multiple causes and it’s not really very easy to address. There are actual shortages of certain things, including affordable homes and workers. Allowing monopolies when we shouldn’t is a mistake that we should correct. Fixing several things in the tax code so wage to the masses were a better choice than CEO wages would help long term. Stupid trade wars that weren’t called for disrupt the markets is another factor.
    What Biden can do is try to get supply lines fixed.
    Other than that we all need to pushback on the reflexive habit of people to think the President controls everything. The rising prices are worldwide so of course we can’t do a whole lot.

  20. 20.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Redshift: There are three things at play.  There is some actual inflation.  There are some temporary shortages that are causing price increases.  And then, on top of that, there are companies capitalizing on the first two to price gouge.

  21. 21.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Redshift: Yeah. I distinctly recall a certain GOP president saying “I alone can fix this” and then doing jack-all about the problems he was claiming he alone could fix.

  22. 22.

    rikyrah

    I love calling them the ‘ fan fiction left’. It SOOO fits.

     

     

    Nandi (@NandisCouch) tweeted at 8:07 AM on Mon, Jun 13, 2022: The “fan fiction” left are against a bipartisan infrastructure bill, against $10k in student loan forgiveness, against sending aid to Ukraine, against a bipartisan bill to reduce gun violence, against voting… They share that in common with the MAGA wing. (https://twitter.com/NandisCouch/status/1536334433749454850?t=12VcdZjjG3pGfbWYqovbfw&s=03)

  24. 24.

    Brachiator

    @Leto:

    PONCHATOULA- It’s one of the most egregious cases victims’ advocates tell the WBRZ Investigative Unit they have ever seen, after a judge awarded full custody to a woman’s abuser and forced her to pay child support.

    This is insane and maddening on so many levels.  How can you even consider granting custody in a situation where there has been abuse or exploitation or a patently illegal act?

  25. 25.

    VOR

    @debbie: The proper response to vandalism of someone’s property is not more vandalism. I’m all for a response, but being an asshole in response to their assholes isn’t a good option. Perhaps we just need tools to remove those stupid stickers.

  26. 26.

    AndoChronic

    I love Tracfone. I spend around $20 a month for really more than I use which gets rolled over anyways. I bought two Galaxy S7s from them, on sale, a couple of years ago for under well under a $100 each. Still have one in the freezer if something happens to the one I’m using. Only had service issues in Alaska in the U.S. so far, i.e., no service whatsoever. I tried using my Tracfone service too in Mexico, Europe, and the Middle East and of course no service, as I expected. I didn’t bother getting a local burner in those locations. No issues otherwise. Been using Tracfone since the mid ’00s.

  28. 28.

    Eunicecycle

    @Tony G: a friend of a friend just bought a Suburban (the ultimate Mom car around here anyway) and is bitching about how much it costs to fill up. Anecdotal but I see this every time. Gas price is low buy a gas guzzler. Then prices go up as they do and the same people bitch.

  30. 30.

    Leto

    @Brachiator: Honestly I don’t know; rapists didn’t find out about the kid for 5 years, now has full custody… but this is the future the fascists want. They’ve been working towards this for years now.

  32. 32.

    VeniceRiley

    @Served: I’m going with Mint. They have reasonable international roaming so I can afford to keep my us number. Plus their basic charge is only $15 a month and they let you use your phone tether for a hotspot. For over 55yo they are even better, waiving charges for setup, etc.

  34. 34.

    James E Powell

    @MazeDancer:

    Thanks for the tip. I want to drop AT&T and find shopping for a new service to be baffling. Everyone wants me to buy a new phone. I don’t need a new phone!

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    @Redshift:

    I tend to be a bit skeptical of price-gouging as a cause of inflation (not against using it as a political tactic, just about whether it’s actually true.) Believing there’s an evil CEO somewhere intentionally making things worse rather than nebulous “market forces” verges on serving the same purpose as conspiracy theories (though much less harmful) — a way of making the world make more sense than it really does.

    Inflation is a global problem. It is devastating some smaller nations. For example, this recent BBC News story.

    For months, Sri Lanka has lacked the foreign currency to buy all that it needs from abroad. Shortages of food and fuel have caused prices to soar. Inflation is now running at 30%.

    I am not sure about price-gouging, but it seems clear that some businesses are trying to make up for problems they had during the pandemic and supply chain disruptions.

    It is also clear that around the world, the government in power is getting much of the blame. It is not just conservatives here slapping Democrats around.

    But it is true that conservatives here are using tired, irrelevant and false arguments against the Biden administration.  BS as usual.

  38. 38.

    RaflW

    I’m certainly seeing evidence (and, alas, making some myself) that price-inelastic demand exists for air travel. Trips that cost $250-400 shortly before the pandemic are running $500-900 (used miles for the latter, though a lot more of those than I’d ideally wanted, too).

    I do wonder how long that pent up demand will last. And then I look at airport parking at MSP and see that the outrageously expensive, recently massively expanded parking garage is 97% full this morning.

    Meanwhile, Minneapolis is expected to hit 101 Sunday, 102 Tuesday, with a ‘low’ of 81 in between. And more humid than Arizona! (Yeah, I know that flying is adding to the climate crisis. We should be decarbonizing electricity at breakneck speed so that we only use oil for energy-dense tasks like flying, not powering cars etc.)

  39. 39.

    different-church-lady

    The reason inflation is severe right now is “fuck you.”

    It’s the same reason everything else is so bad right now.

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    @NotMax:

    “It’s al those goldang electric cars. Refiners have no choice but to increase prices to barely squeak by on the same profit from lesser sales volume!”

    There is a global fuel problem. There are not enough electric cars in service to make a significant difference.

  41. 41.

    different-church-lady

    @ant:

    The rest went to the rich via inflated asset prices and debt purchases.

    That’s where the rest ALWAYS goes. Put more money into the same system and that money will just go to the same place it always does.

  43. 43.

    Roger Moore

    @Tony G: 
    A big part of the switch to gas guzzlers was the response to the dot com recession. Part of the W Bush tax cuts was a big tax break for work trucks, so lots of people bought those work trucks as daily drivers. Favorable tax treatment of gas guzzlers like those is one of the least excusable parts of our tax code.
    I think it’s kind of funny, because I bought my current car in 2000 and decided to get a Civic HX (the highest fuel economy version) because I thought it was a good idea generally to get an efficient car. People thought I was being silly at the time, but that fuel economy has served me well in the decades since.

  44. 44.

    Percysowner

    But, but just this morning Charlotte Rampell assured me that we have been wrong to blame rising prices on greed. Greed is dead. Long live greed! Don’t we realize that those poor, put upon corporations have profits going down? Of course she doesn’t mention CEOs giving back any salary or bonuses in response to these problems, but how can we expect them to forego their 3d yacht?

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    @Served:

    I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s a kind of malaise and resignation that feels really unhealthy for a society.

    Yep. It’s hard to describe exactly, but it’s like realizing the floor beneath our feet that we’ve always assumed was solid is actually a rickety-ass layer of plaster over an abyss.

  49. 49.

    cmorenc

    But…but…I thought the invisible hand of the free market reigns in merchants engaged in price-gouging, assuming they don’t have what amounts effectively to a controlling monopoly. I also thought that anti-trust laws would reign in controlling monopolies, should they arise.

    I’m starting to have some mild doubts… :=)

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @cmorenc: 

    Gouging can’t last forever. But companies do have a window where they can engage in simultaneous profiteering.

  51. 51.

    Villago Delenda Est

    AT&T’s CFO needs to experience a world of hurt. With sharp, pointy teeth. UNLEASH THE KITTENS!

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    @Tony G:

    About 25 years ago, many American consumers — in their wisdom — increased their purchasing of gas-guzzling SUVs and massive trucks — most of which were never used to haul anything heavier than groceries — because they chose to believe advertisers who told them that these vehicles would enhance their sex appeal.

    SUVs and trucks are not what’s fueling inflation. And a lot of people buy SUVs because it works for them and their families not because they were swayed by advertising.

    According to some economists higher used car prices are adding to inflation.

  53. 53.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @cmorenc: Gosh, it’s not like some obscure Scotsman in late 18th century Britain didn’t foresee this, am I right?

  54. 54.

    narya

    I use Credo Mobile. They’re not necessarily super cheap, but you can choose your level of data, and they donate to lefty non-profits. I currently pay about $120/month, but that includes monthly payment on a phone and unlimited data (which not everyone needs). I’ve been using them since they were Working Assets, so I’m biased.

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    Backstory: like many Floridians who’ve never filed a claim, we got dumped by our insurer. Again. That happens a lot here, and the rates are ridiculous. Anyhoo, go Nikki!

  58. 58.

    NotMax

    ‘@Brachiator

    Skimmed right over the snark tag, didn’t ya.

    Was hypothesizing a possible way the original commenter’s statement about a Sinclair TV outlet might play it.

    ;)

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Trump had the advantage of having supporters who would believe him automatically if he simply said he had fixed the problem.

    Ain’t it the truth!

    Trump supporters believed he was magic. They ate up his lies and even gave him credit for trying to do good when his lies were exposed.

  61. 61.

    eversor

    The most common “Biden did it” argument I find is more of a pro Russian argument. That because Biden and globohomo pride supporters are backing Ukraine instead of letting Russia have it gas prices are high. Not only because of Russian oil embargos, but because our oil companies had to leave equipment there and now need to make up the cost. And so really, this is all all the fault of gays and the decadent West that should just let Russia have Ukraine rather than trying to spread pride. (I wish this was a joke but it’s not).

    The next is that we simply gave the working class too much money and that leads to inflation. So they should never have been given the money, and wages need to come back down or inflation will get out of hand.

    Both of these always tie into wanting to deliberately raise gas prices because progressives like to hurt rural people and want to force green energy on people.

    I also wouldn’t say nobody likes oil companies. Conservatives love oil companies. Part of that is owning the libs, but a huge part of it is these are red area jobs that employ blue collar men and very few women and it’s largely manual labor. It’s a totem of the way things “were”. By which they mean manly men working with their hands in dangerous jobs with the women at home with kids. Never mind that modern oil and gas work is nothing like it used to be and is highly advanced and automated that is ignored.

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud: Hopefully that will be enough to send DeathSentence packing.  Not betting the farm, though…it isn’t called Flori-DUH for nothing.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    @Percysowner:   Catherine Rampell.  Of the WaPost.  Talk about uneven; she’s made sense on some issues, but when she is off, she is really, really off.  [ETA:  Ah.  I see she is originally from the FTF NYTimes.  Hmmmm.  Princeton grad, in Anthropology.]

    Nice mashup of the Post’s sometimes wayward economic opinion columnist, and the incredible Charlotte Rampling.  Wonderful actress.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    I looked into it. There’s a 2016 federal law that states can use (and they were given incentives to do so) that makes the standard “clear and convincing” for a rape in a custody issue rather than a criminal conviction of rape. However, only 30 states did so and of course the states that didn’t adopt the law are also the states that will (are) banning abortion with no exception for rape.

    States were eligible to receive additional funds in their Stop Violence Against Women (STOP) and Sexual
    Assault Services Program (SASP) formula awards (up to 10% of the three-year average of combined STOP
    and SASP formula grant funds, with 75% of that amount supplementing the SASP award, and 25%
    supplementing the STOP award) if the state meets the requirements of the Act.
    To qualify, the state must have a law that allows the mother of a child conceived through rape to seek court-ordered termination of the parental rights of the rapist with regard to that child, which the court is authorized to grant upon clear and convincing evidence of rape.

    Just another odd and inexplicable ommission by the “pro life” movement, even with all their fancy and highly paid lawyers and prestigious judges. That they didn’t make sure that the women they are forcing to carry the child of a rapist would not have to turn the child over to the rapist. Obviously the women and children were a low priority.

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    @NotMax: 

    Was hypothesizing a possible way the original commenter’s statement about a Sinclair TV outlet might play it.

    Got it now. I didn’t see the original comment from oatler.

    I don’t think there are any Sinclair TV outlets in the Los Angeles area, thank goodness. Fox News is bad enough.

  69. 69.

    Nora

    Don’t know if anyone mentioned it elsewhere, but the daily email from the New York Times (ftfnyt) carefully explained to everyone that there really isn’t price gouging and if there were, it had nothing to do with inflation.

    First against the wall when the revolution happens, to quote the late great Douglas Adams.

  70. 70.

    trollhattan

    June 14, 2022 at 1:27 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard

    Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) “has received tens of thousands of dollars in donations from the CEO of Daniel Defense, a gun manufacturing company that made the rifle used by the shooter in the massacre at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, on May 24,” the American Independent reports.

    Nice touch.

  71. 71.

    NotMax

    ‘@VeniceRiley

    Outfits such as Carvana* and Vroom are offering outrageous prices for used cars. Then turning around and selling them for even more stupefying $$.

    Why? Because they can. That’s the plain and simple of it. The marketplace, or what remains of it, is broken. Value is a dinosaur, valuation is king.

    *Rumors circulating Carvana soon gonna fold up their tent.

  72. 72.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: She does, and DeSantis is a humorless prick, so that would potentially be a positive contrast in a race where lots of people who aren’t driven by tribal loyalties seem to vote on affect. But I’m 90% sure Crist will get the nomination (again) and lose (again).

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Just another odd and inexplicable ommission by the “pro life” movement, even with all their fancy and highly paid lawyers and prestigious judges. That they didn’t make sure that the women they are forcing to carry the child of a rapist would not have to turn the child over to the rapist. Obviously the women and children were a low priority.

    This just enrages me further,  especially as I dread the formal release of the Supreme Court opinion.

    It is insane that a woman would have to jump through hoops to prevent custody from being considered in these cases.

    I believe that some of the state abortion laws that refuse to make exceptions for rape and incest presume that a woman is probably lying.

  74. 74.

    trollhattan

    @NotMax: Auto sales and real estate will both be slowing the hell down because interest rates are no longer dwelling in the “free money” realm.

    Here in the hot-as-hell Central Valley CA market, the days of bidding beyond asking price among buyers not coming in with cash (themselves a not-insubstantial cohort) will grind to a halt. The reason is simply they can afford less house than they could have two months ago. Same goes with cars. My last car loan was 0.9%. My first car loan was 17%.

  76. 76.

    eversor

    @Kay:

     

    It’s not inexplicable at all.  There entire deal is they are the right people.   Which means they get to tell you what to do, and nobody can tell them what to do.

  77. 77.

    NotMax

    ‘@trolhattan

    Auto sales will chug right along smartly until supply chain and chip manufacturing snafus are smoothed, which will probably happen (optimistically) sometime in 2024.

    Way too many models of cars already on a wait from time of order of from 6 months to as much as 2 years.

  78. 78.

    mali muso

    @Betty Cracker: Read an article recently that spoke to that feeling, I think. Quoting some of the seminal bits. The Breaking Point is Here – Again

    All of these pinballing realities—of what it means to live in a Black body, of what it means for Roe v. Wade to be struck down, of what climate catastrophe will unleash on the even more marginalized among us, of how the electorate will continue to betray basic fundamental rights—have all seemed to echo a little louder lately. For me, the magnification of all of this and more has become even more dangerously resonant online.

    In conversations with friends, on Twitter where I spend a macabre amount of time, and among certain family members I’ve spoken with lately, the consensus is one of dread. The kind of dread that operates like a steam-roller—making pancakes out of whatever is in its path. To imagine the toll the families of the victims must carry is impossible. The dread seems to never quiet. It only compounds. And eventually everything—and every one of us—breaks.

    At least, that’s what it feels like. Much has been written about “the Great Resignation,” the way the pandemic eroded our trance-like commitment to capitalism, cultivating healthier paths to fulfillment. But everything feels more tenuous than usual these days, rendered in all sorts of dystopian hues. What I fear is on the horizon, as our many selves and experiences have smushed irrevocably, is a collective breaking point—call it the Great Snapping. Or maybe it will feel more like a crush, as we are all flattened into feelingless blobs, helpless to the anarchy that grows around us.

  81. 81.

    Martin

    Rather than the news outlets telling us polling about what voters think about gas prices, why not air the CNBC interview with ConocoPhillips CEO a few months ago where he was asked if they would increase production and he said ‘no, the shareholders don’t want that’. And in a hypothetical said that increasing drilling wouldn’t lower prices in the near term because it would take months for oil to hit the market, feigning complete ignorance over the existence of the massive oil and gas futures markets who would immediately respond to such an announcement by selling off held product out of fear of falling prices.

    Haul all of the fuckers in front of congress and ask them why our supposed ‘free market’ hasn’t caused even one of them to increase production? They don’t even need to collude – they just need to agree that as long as none of them decides to increase production first, that they can compete on higher price, rather than lower price. And higher price is just fine so long as consumers won’t reduce consumption. That’s commodity economics 101 there. Nothing will change until you drive less or buy an EV.

  83. 83.

    different-church-lady

    @trollhattan:

    The reason is simply they can afford less house than they could have two months ago.

    Will they be able to afford any house at all once the cheap money spigot gets turned off?

  84. 84.

    JaneE

    How many of the items that make up gasoline prices have become decoupled from their historic contributions to the cost of gas? Oil always used to be the big one, everything else was pennies.

    Just a couple of weeks ago we were exporting more petroleum and refined products than we ever had before. So why not sell it here? Why tap the strategic reserve to sell stuff overseas? And why the push to “open up” public lands for oil when you know it will take years for that oil to reach a gas pump? (Republicans, don’t expect any sense at all).

    Every time there is a gouging investigation in the legislature, they always come back and say it wasn’t gouging. I really would like to see those numbers myself.

  87. 87.

    different-church-lady

    @eversor:

    we simply gave the working class too much money and that leads to inflation means the management class has an excuse to take it from them.

    What did anyone think was going to happen?

  88. 88.

    different-church-lady

    @JaneE:

    I really would like to see those numbers myself.

    “There’s a reason we can’t show you those numbers: fuck you.”

  90. 90.

    James E Powell

    @Brachiator:

    According to some economists higher used car prices are adding to inflation.

    @VeniceRiley:

    Can confirm. I am selling a 2017 Camry wholesale this week for more than I paid for it retail 4 years ago.

    I’m currently looking at a Subaru Crosstrek. A 2021 w/22K miles is selling for almost the same as an equivalent brand new 2022. Can’t recall seeing used car prices like that before.

  91. 91.

    NotMax

    ‘@different-church-lady

    So far, within the labyrinthine warrens of lenders, those who if in classic garb would wear the green eye shades and arm garters remain skittish about accepting “fuck you” as collateral.

  92. 92.

    anonymous expat

    That prices are rising above input costs points to the case for a truly confiscatory corporate profits tax: any revenue not paid to employees or suppliers is padding the books at what’s basically public expense, so why isn’t the public entitled to getting, say, 95% of it back in the form of taxes?

  93. 93.

    NotMax

    ‘@NotMax
    Slight revision for clarity.

    @different-church-lady

    So far, within the labyrinthine warrens of corporate lenders, those who if in classic garb would wear the green eye shades and arm garters remain skittish about accepting “fuck you” as collateral.

  96. 96.

    eversor

    @different-church-lady:

    Oh I knew exactly what was going to happen the moment wages went up.  And the corporate big wigs have even said they are just raising prices because people have more money.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @JaneE:

    Every time there is a gouging investigation in the legislature, they always come back and say it wasn’t gouging. I really would like to see those numbers myself.

    People maybe understandably want to believe that the major factor in inflation is price-gouging because corporations must be evil. But BBC News recently had a story showing how inflation is a problem in America and all around the world.

    Last year, businesses around the world started raising prices at a pace not seen in decades. Among major economies, one country was hit the worst – the United States.

    Prices jumped at an annual rate of 4.7% last year – faster than any other country in the Group of Seven (G7) advanced economies, according to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). In the UK, for example, inflation was just 2.5%.

    With a little searching you can find the reports on global inflation from the UK Office For National Statistics, ONS. You can also find the recent inflation reports from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco that was mentioned in the BBC News report.

    A recent study by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco concluded that pandemic relief packages probably contributed to 3 percentage points of the rise in inflation until the end of 2021 – a factor that goes a long way to explaining why US inflation outpaced the rest of the world.

  99. 99.

    Hoodie

    @Martin: It’s hard to know when these oil industry fuckers are being on the level or just jerking people around.  I understand that we’re marginal as far as refining capacity, and that there is some reluctance to increasing capacity in view of increasing numbers of electric vehicles and long term falling demand.  I would imagine that also pertains to exploration and development of crude oil sources.  I do know some guys who were in the business of developing infrastructure for domestic oil and gas and shifted out of that market into distributed energy storage when the price of crude fell below $80/barrel a few years back.  They said at the time that a lot of the producers in the US would not invest in oil or gas field development below that level and I would imagine that some might be gun shy about getting back in given the volatility (which is why complaints about restrictions on drilling are largely bullshit). Those kind of things could be conceivably affecting prices long term but, of course, that could be offset by reduced demand for motor fuels with electrification of fleets.  Of course, Biden has little or no ability to do anything about that on his own, as there would have to be some sort of coherent national energy policy to transition us into a new energy mix.  Not happening with the current GOP.

  101. 101.

    Anyway

    Not to pull a Goku here — I am concerned about the TYD stock market dip on Team D’s prospects. I think the market was hugely overvalued and due a correction but this has gone on long enough that I am getting worried.

  102. 102.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Leto: 

    Summarizing: man, 32, rapes a 16 year old girl. Girl gives birth to daughter. Now daughter is 16, and court grants custody of daughter to the rapist.

    I repeat: the court has granted custody of a 16 year old girl to a man who’s already raped a 16 year old girl.

  104. 104.

    eversor

    @Anyway:

    The market is hugely overvalued.  People have also not been paying their student loans and Biden needs to forgive them ASAP.  There’s also a few dirty secrets floating around that are going to catch people.

    Inflation is obvious but another thing is that for years Uber, Lyft, Doordash, essentially all the driver and food delivery services ran at a loss propped up by massive amounts of venture capital.   They got people hooked during COVID something fierce.  Now they need to make a profit so what was a 10 buck Uber ride is now north of 50 bucks, this is not just gas it’s Uber and that drivers are looking for better paying jobs now.  Food delivery has also gone through the roof.  What that means for all these companies is up in the air, but things could get bloody.

    Also lots of the younger generation got deep into “pay latter” loans.   These aren’t cards but buy online with a payment plan.  The rates are reasonable but there are people massively in debt with these.  With inflation high people are going to focus on paying things down rather than buying new stuff.

    Then you have crypto blowing up and while that was always going to happen so much is in it now the results will get bad.

    I expect the bottom to fall out.

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @MazeDancer:

    I use the program from Verizon that you speak of. Was with another provider, they got bought by the company I left to go to them and when they folded everything into the one company I left them for the cheap program from Verizon. If you do automatic pay you get another $10/month off, done in separate steps over a time period. That takes me down to $25/month + tax of course in 2 or 3 more months. Change over was a bit of a pain to wait for everything to be done but no actual problem.

    Now if I could get Joe to have the VA go back to doing their own billing instead of using the crappy company SFB gifted the pleasure of screwing everything up because they really, really do not understand numbers, billing, etc. that would be great.

  107. 107.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    I used to remember days like that automatically, but so much else is going on, I wasn’t sure what month it was when I read your post.

  108. 108.

    Sure Lurkalot

    A couple of nights ago I saw an ad for a pickup with a black man dressed to the nines driving to meet his friends at a cafe. There’s another ad running with a suburban couple shopping for pickups and the focus was on the woman obviously enthralled by the vehicle.

    At my last job, the expensive underground parking garage was filled with trucks like these, the Class A building chock full of lawyers, accountants and other professionals. Almost always gleaming clean.

    Why anyone would want to drive a huge pickup to a white collar job beats me but the car companies are definitely marketing these behemoths as commuter vehicles. It’s ridiculous from so many perspectives…lack of true need for such vehicle, height and weight more dangerous in accidents, cost of fuel and road repair.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    If the bottom is going to fall out, I would rather have Biden and his team in charge.  And I will hope that he and his fellow Democrats are not too badly blamed for this awful confluence of circumstance and events.  It has been building for a long, long time.  Greed and human nature being what it is, too many never learn the lessons of the past.  On so many fronts, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

    We live in a country ruled by predatory capitalism, with inadequate regulation and safety in place.  Now with increased guns!

    Our immediate future will depend on whether our country has enough smart voters in it.  On whether we can turn our voters out this fall.  On whether they get that they need to be voting in ALL the elections, not just every 4 years.  And no matter what happens in the midterms, Democrats hold the executive branch through January 2025.

    I hope the Republicans are about to take a long-deserved very public fall.  And that the FTF NY Times and its ilk does not succeed too greatly and catching and propping them up.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist: 

    They don’t really believe in rape. All women are liars. They said it recently in one of the anti-abortion states legislature “debates”- one of the reasons to get rid of the rape exception for abortion was women are all liars and they will lie to terminate a pregnancy. They will also lie about their health- hence we had to get rid of that exception.
    We’re going back 100 years on attitudes about women in the US. It’s an archaic, backward philosophy that will bleed into all areas of women’s rights; employment, education, etc.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Nine. Nine whole spots out of 150 are taken by non-white authors.

    Nine too many! That just means 9 white middle aged men were unfairly denied their spot on the best seller list.
    I love how lazy all these people are. He couldn’t look at the best seller list before shooting his mouth off?
    Just pull it RIGHT out of their ass, always.

  113. 113.

    different-church-lady

    @eversor: I can’t help but believe that from the start the plan was destroy the taxi industry and then gouge away once there’s no alternative.

  114. 114.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @debbie: Patterson runs a writing-factory. He recruits young writers, gives them an outline, has them draft his books, and then edits. That’s how he puts out so many books in one year.

    He should STFU for many reasons

  117. 117.

    gvg

    @Sure Lurkalot: I had a job like that and I loved my pickup. I got rid of it when we began fostering small kids because car seats and safety. You underestimate the practical uses of them and the fact that ordinary people cannot afford extra vehicles so the daily commuter has to be able to do everything.

    I garden. I used to be able to go get a load of manure for my garden and I really miss that. Also big loads of mulch and lots of plants, tall ones.  I also hauled a lot of lumber when my dad helped me add a laundry room onto my house. I got a camper top for $40 bucks and went camping in the smokies and stayed dry when it rained buckets. I also hauled home furniture to refinish and lumber to make several large bookcases.

    Now I don’t have that. I do have a minivan, so I can do somethings but not nearly as much, but it is better at hauling people which I have to do more of these days. I tried keeping the truck as a backup for awhile but insurance costs too much and sitting rarely used is not good for cars.

    I would like a truck with better milage and safety but doesn’t look like it can happen soon. Do not know what I will get next but I don’t expect electric to be affordable in my price range.

    The SUV’s can be pretty useful too to many people. People who fix their own things or make things or a lot of hobbys use them for a lot more than driving to work. You don’t really know how many different things people do.

    Just keep pushing better gas milage and safety and fix some tax loopholes, fund infrastructure and mass transit where it makes sense. Denigrating ALL SUV and truck owners just makes you look ;like an offensive jerk.

  120. 120.

    eversor

    @different-church-lady:

    It was, and in many ways it’s worse than that.

    The sort of end goal is a fleet of self driving vehicles totally cutting out the taxi industry and drivers as well.   This will handle not only personal transportation but restaurant delivery, grocery delivery, and goods delivery.  For lower distances the same companies run all those scooter companies as well.   Several of them want into long distance mass transit.

    The tech companies have always wanted to automate everything away and have it privately controlled.   And the investors that are bankrolling this are related to the same companies buying up all the housing as well.

    Andrew Yang was an attention grabbing jackass but he wasn’t wrong that we are going to automate most jobs into oblivion.  There are places overseas that have automatically prepared restaurant food that can automatically be delivered so unless it’s some money bugs 200 bucks or higher per person please add on our wine tasting as well that food can be automated as well.   Your grocery store can be a complete automated delivery warehouse as well.

    It’s far enough out that it’s not an immediate concern but it is coming.   But I mean, we aren’t going to get social security by the time I’m retiring so I realize UBI and healthcare are also not going to happen.

  122. 122.

    James E Powell

    @eversor: 

    The market is hugely overvalued.

    Still? S&P & NASDAQ are down quite a bit YTD. How much further till the bottom, no one seems to know, but a few are optimistic.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    @Kay: 

    The most offensive part of all.

    Whoops! Forgot the top spot, which was held by John Grisham, a 67-year-old white man.

  124. 124.

    Old School

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: 

    He should STFU for many reasons

    He apologized this morning.

    I apologize for saying white male writers having trouble finding work is a form of racism. I absolutely do not believe that racism is practiced against white writers. Please know that I strongly support a diversity of voices being heard—in literature, in Hollywood, everywhere.

  125. 125.

    RevRick

    The big problem for Democrats are that most people have no clue as to how the economy works and can only see what’s in front of their noses. Gas and grocery prices get writ large through attention bias.

  127. 127.

    NotMax

    ‘@gvg

    Still can’t help smiling each time go into the garage and see the zippy little base model hybrid pick-up which the car stork delivered in late March. Bargain basement price, new, in today’s market.

  128. 128.

    debbie

    @Old School:

    People are upset, then this:

    Calm down everybody, how could he have known what he was saying? It’s not like the guy selects words for a living.
    — Matthew Horowitz (@HorowitzWanders) June 14, 2022

  129. 129.

    different-church-lady

    @gvg: How many manure deliveries will the extra 10-15k spent on a large vehicle pay for?

  131. 131.

    trollhattan

    @different-church-lady: Will they be able to afford any house at all once the cheap money spigot gets turned off?

    Good question, have not heard this addressed. Spouse is a mortgage broker with a mid-size bank who can go outside the bank to other lenders; critical because the bank’s portfolio often hits the regulatory ceiling and they either run out of  lending capital or simply jack their rates to slow things.

    We globally seem to be in the process of losing trillions in liquidity and it’s going to affect many areas.

    NB this is nothing like the Bush real estate bubble, given housing supply is so tight.

  132. 132.

    Bill Arnold

    @Nora:

    carefully explained to everyone that there really isn’t price gouging and if there were, it had nothing to do with inflation.

    Much higher profits during periods of highly-visible inflation; how does it work?

  133. 133.

    Hoodie

    @gvg: Sorry, but can’t completely agree with you here, because the use of trucks and SUVs in the US is pretty ridiculous.  Most of the soccer moms and dads I see around here driving massive SUVs like Tahoes and Suburbans to haul kids could be driving hybrid minivans that get 20-30% better mileage and have more room,  seating capacity and cargo space.  Most of the truck owners I see here have giant pickups that are 20-30% larger than the trucks I used in construction 30 years ago.  The beds of those trucks are usually whistle clean and have never seen a concrete block except for the odd trip to the Home Depot.   You only have to watch the advertising to see what they’re selling, and it’s mostly bullshit about being a guy that hauls around steam turbines and believes in America or some wilderness explorer scaling the Rockies and, sure, such a manly truck needs leather seating and multizone climate control.  Yes, the engines in modern trucks are more efficient these days, but they’re still  mostly just Ford, Chevy and Mopar blocks that were designed decades ago and have been upgraded by fuel injection and computerized controls.   Maybe they can eke out the low 20s mpg on the highway (much worse in normal daily driving), but imagine how much better they would be if they were 20-30% lighter and smaller and used smaller displacement engines or hybrids.   Your average truck owner doesn’t need 12,000 pounds of towing capacity except to lug around some ridiculous gas-guzzling boat or a 5-th wheel camper that makes a joke out of “camping.”

  135. 135.

    NutmegAgain

    One gas station owner put those on his pumps where I live in pretty blue, but not entirely, CT. My comment o a town-wide discussion board was simply, (a) great now I know where NOT to buy gas, and (b) how to advertise how stupid and gullible you are!

    Planning to use that second point again if necessary. I have not ever had a response. Not sure the Quidiots can think it through.

    I passed a house with a giant “F*ck Biden” flag. I thought, “great way to tell the world just how stupid you are, and how easily you throw your money away on grifter graft.” I mean, yes the content is offensive, if merely because of the ramped-up disrespect to the office and not the person. But really, the hatefulness and the brain rot are more alarming.

    I remember the “Don’t Blame Me, I’m from Massachusetts” bumper stickers (In ’72, we voted for McCarthy, all the other states went for Nixon). Clever, and not nasty.

  139. 139.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @debbie: Twitter endumbens the smartest man.  “Endumbens” by the way is a perfectly cromulent word.

  140. 140.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie:

  143. 143.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @different-church-lady:

    @gvg:

    Here Uhaul will rent pickups. You’d probably want to hose out the bed before returning it if you got one to haul manure or mulch, but that seems like a good workaround.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    @eversor:

    The sort of end goal is a fleet of self driving vehicles totally cutting out the taxi industry and drivers as well.   This will handle not only personal transportation but restaurant delivery, grocery delivery, and goods delivery.  For lower distances the same companies run all those scooter companies as well.   Several of them want into long distance mass transit.

    I have also seen some wild predictions that self-driving vehicles will be used in the trucking industry.

    How is this a problem?  Automation and self-serve has been a fact of industrialization ever since luddites broke mills and saboteurs threw shoes into looms. The expectation is that new jobs and new industries will be created.

    If we reach a tipping point where there are more automated jobs than human labor, well, things will get very interesting. But until then, I don’t know how anyone can shield any particular industry.

    ETA. In Los Angeles, taxi service was pretty bad, but I think this was because lots of people had cars, and the taxi industry had carved out relatively uncompetitive niches. Uber and Lyft were eating their lunch for a while.

  146. 146.

    Kropacetic

    @Tony G: About 25 years ago, many American consumers — in their wisdom — increased their purchasing of gas-guzzling SUVs and massive trucks — most of which were never used to haul anything heavier than groceries — because they chose to believe advertisers who told them that these vehicles would enhance their sex appeal.

    …

    Now these people are whining because it costs more to fill the gas tanks of their ridiculously overgrown vehicles.

    Bears repeating. This is why my new cars since 2008 have all been hybrids. I’ve been taking every opportunity when a friend complains about gas prices to argue we should elect politicians who will work to get our society off its crippling gasoline addiction.

  150. 150.

    trollhattan

    @Brachiator: Self-driving vehicle fleet shall remain as far in the future as commercial fusion electricity generation. That’s my bet.

  151. 151.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Hoodie:

    The beds of those trucks are usually whistle clean and have never seen a concrete block except for the odd trip to the Home Depot.

    Even then they’ll scream bloody murder if you scratch the bed of their shinny truck when you load the blocks into it.  I know this because I’m a delivery associate(technically, Order Fullfillment Associate) at the Home of the Orange Apron.  I have many stories.

  153. 153.

    rikyrah

    @Brachiator:

     

    ETA. In Los Angeles, taxi service was pretty bad, but I think this was because lots of people had cars, and the taxi industry had carved out relatively uncompetitive niches. Uber and Lyft were eating their lunch for a while.

     

    I live in an urban area. To this day, you can’t regularly catch a cab in my neighborhood. Competition from Uber and Lyft haven’t changed that. My neighborhood remains too Black and Brown for the cab companies.

  154. 154.

    TerryC

    @NotMax: When I had a red Suburban and three kids and camping, scouting, and disc golf meant transporting others Clifford the Big Red Dog, as mine was named, averaged 54 PMPG, “People-Miles Per Gallon”.

  156. 156.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:

    I have a small economy hatchback and I can carry 24 in wide x 8 ft boards in it – the back seats fold down. Vacuum the inside and it looks like new. Gets 25-30 mpg around town has gotten in the low to mid 40s on the freeway, when it’s moving. So hardly ever in SoCal. And unless I was buying manure in bulk I could get a few bags in the back. And yes, I’ve owned pickups when I needed them for my business, to actually haul stuff. When I didn’t haul stuff, I got a car that gets at least decent milage.

  158. 158.

    surfk9

    @Hoodie: I have one of those big ass trucks. I use it to tow my Airstream trailer. I pretty much don’t drive it except to pull the trailer. I hate driving it, it is too big, has huge mirrors that create stupid blind spots. But it pulls the trailer nicely. It actually gets better mileage pulling the trailer than my smaller previous truck. I drive my wife’s car mostly since she generally works from home. We planning to go electric car next Spring.​

  159. 159.

    Ruckus

    @ BillinGlendaleCA:

    At the other unnamed home/building stuff chain store the cost is dependent upon a minimum purchase and is similarly priced. Still if you don’t want to risk scratching your precious, that’s cheap. But I still run on the premise that if you don’t haul stuff, you don’t need a vehicle that gets worse mileage, is harder to park (obviously considering how many I see unable to be parked reasonably) costs the same or far more to operate. But then I don’t feel I need to compensate for whatever or worry about being left out of whatever.

  161. 161.

    Brachiator

    @rikyrah: 

    I live in an urban area. To this day, you can’t regularly catch a cab in my neighborhood. Competition from Uber and Lyft haven’t changed that. My neighborhood remains too Black and Brown for the cab companies.

    Some city and municipal governments look the other way and don’t fight this crap effectively. They have to be held accountable.

  162. 162.

    NotMax

    ‘@Ruckus

    Hey, now. Window sticker EPA ratings on the zippy little hybrid pick-up are 33 highway, 42 city, 37 combined. Consistently getting higher numbers than that On track to squeeze out at least 600 miles from the first full (13.8 gallon) tank. Slides easily into parking spaces. 1500 pound payload capacity.

    Happy camper. Like the TARDIS, small on the outside, capacious on the inside.

  163. 163.

    Brachiator

    @trollhattan:

    Self-driving vehicle fleet shall remain as far in the future as commercial fusion electricity generation. That’s my bet.

    You’re probably right. But automation in many other areas may be accelerating.

    I recently saw some libertarian butthole claim that raising the minimum wage would force businesses to hire less and automate more, and that this would hurt low wage workers.

    But companies will automate where ever they can and this might impact a range of jobs, not just low wage jobs. Workers deserve a fair wage.

  164. 164.

    Jager

    @NotMax: 

    A friend of mine paid 20k over sticker for a new Bronco, I hope he still loves it when Ford is offering 2k factory rebates on Broncos in a couple of years. On the used car front, my wife’s Volt has gone up in value by 3100 dollars in the last 60 days.

  165. 165.

    NotMax

    ‘@Jager

    Oh fer sure. ADMs (additional dealer mark-ups), while thankfully not universal, are both widespread and in some cases egregiously obscene. Have seen documentation of ADMs $40 or even $50k above suggested retail price.

    Sad thing is, there are people out there willing to fork over that much of a pickpocketing.

  166. 166.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Yutsano: My parents got married on Flag Day…for the second time.  Unbeknownst to all of my mom’s family, they had gotten married six months prior on Christmas Eve in Vegas!

  169. 169.

    NutmegAgain

    @Villago Delenda Est: forehead smack!  I myself was too young to vote that year, but heave sigh, you are so right. Apparently I am now too old to remember my own back story. It was the grey kitten I named McCarthy, and that is for real.

  170. 170.

    Chris T.

    @debbie: Better yet, a sticker with Putin on it saying “I did that!” (since there’s a direct connection between Putin’s war and the oil price increases), with Trump in the picture as the Putin sidekick.

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