Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

American History and Black History can not be separated.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Not all heroes wear capes.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

If you’re looking for someone who’s young and athletic, go watch a fucking movie.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

I was promised a recession.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

You are here: Home / Jan 6: Hearings / Hearing Wrap-Up Open Thread

Hearing Wrap-Up Open Thread

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Wow. That was powerful. Each of the witnesses was amazing in their own way. The way the presentation unfolded highlighted how Trump and his henchmen’s unconscionable lies affected the elected Republican officials like Bowers and Raffensperger and then crashed down on the lives of election workers like Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman.

It painted a vivid picture of how Trump’s lies and bullying hurt good and honorable people trying to do their jobs. It depicted Trump as a bully and his sycophants as thugs. In other words, it showed the truth.

Bravo.

And how about Liz Cheney calling out Pat Cipollone? That was the moment to do it — after fellow establishment Republicans showed up and two ordinary women who were vilely harassed thanks to Trump had the courage to appear. I don’t know if it will work, but good for her.

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

190Comments

  2. 2.

    Jerzy Russian

    I hope Lady Ruby, her daughter, and her mother get to sue the ever loving shit out of the Trump campaign, Guliani, et al.  After that, I hope they get to take possession of the keys to all of those prison cells the above are lock into.  I will trust their judgement on what should be done with those keys.

  3. 3.

    smintheus

    Nobody with an ounce of sense, listening to that hearing, could avoid the conclusion that Trumpism = fascism.

  4. 4.

    trollhattan

    Seems Texas is not going along with the Uvalde cops’ coverup.

    There were enough police on the scene of the Uvalde, Texas school shooting to have stopped the gunman three minutes after he entered the building, Texas’s public safety chief has testified. Steven McCraw told a state Senate hearing the police response was an “abject failure”.

    He accused the on-scene commander of placing officers’ lives above the children’s.

    Police waited for over an hour outside classrooms before a team made entry.

    Mr McCraw, Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), told the public hearing: “The officers had weapons, the children had none. The officers had body armour, the children had none. The officers had training, the subject had none. One hour, 14 minutes, and eight seconds – that is how long the children waited, and the teachers waited, in Room 111 to be rescued.

    “Three minutes after the subject entered the west building, there was a sufficient number of armed officers wearing body armour to isolate, distract and neutralise the subject.”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61877914

    Three minutes.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    It painted a vivid picture of how Trump’s lies and bullying hurt good and honorable people trying to do their jobs. It depicted Trump as a bully and his sycophants as thugs. In other words, it showed the truth.

    UH HUH

    UH HUH

  6. 6.

    piratedan

    there are times when I wonder if these asshats worked as hard to actually do something to solve a problem as they do trying to cheat the system, how much better a planet/country we would have.

  9. 9.

    rikyrah

    @trollhattan:

     

    That none of these cowards have resigned tells all you need to know about them.
    From top to bottom, they had jobs with benefits that they didn’t deserve. They are actually offended that people are keeping on this, and pulling out all the truth about their cowardice and incompetence. They were able to live well off those poorer Brown people whose children they allowed to be SLAUGHTERED.

    After they are fired, they will whine to anyone and everyone about how THEY were the victims, and how nobody seriously thought that THEY should put their lives on the line for THOSE children.

    They have never been held accountable a day in their lives, and certainly not professionally.And, when they did that press conference where Beto confronted Abbott, they all knew that they were lying. They were ready to cover for their cowardice and incompetence.

  10. 10.

    Jerzy Russian

    The “be glad it is 2020 and not 1920” or words to that effect really got to me.  I thought I had become cynical enough, but apparently not.   Also too, citizen’s arrests?  Jesus Hussein Christ.

  13. 13.

    RepubAnon

    @trollhattan: Sounds as though the Uvalde police are going to be reassigned to their new jobs – under the bus.  The powes that be can tolerate police shooting unarmed civilians, but putting a dent into the NRA’s “good guys with guns” defense cannot be tolerated.

  14. 14.

    Elizabelle

    Today’s hearing spotlighted the thugs (Team Trump) who called other thugs (rightwingers) down on the heads of election officials and workers.

    They unleashed what could have been lynch mobs.

    2020, not 1920.

    Or 1938-39, across the ocean.  In a land far away.

  15. 15.

    Almost Retired

    That was powerful.  I want to go full “Clockwork Orange” on every remaining Trump supporter, and tie them to a chair with their eyelids propped open while they watch the entirety of the hearings in a single marathon setting.

  17. 17.

    germy shoemangler

    “Our evidence shows that Pat Cipollone and his office tried to do what was right. They tried to stop a number of President Trump’s plans for Jan. 6,” Cheney, who is a vice-chair of the committee, said at the close of Tuesday’s hearing.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    crashed down on the lives of election workers like Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman.

    Time for another NYT editorial about the evils of cancel culture.

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    One party pulls these tactics, and one party’s supporters are uniquely conditioned to follow up on the threats. They also happen to be the party that is ravenous about guns, guns, more guns.

    That bears some looking into.

  20. 20.

    Betty Cracker

    @trollhattan: If those accounts are accurate, Arredondo needs to be fired as police chief, obviously. But if he’s got more sense than he has courage, he’ll resign as city councilor too, change his name and move.

    I don’t know how a person lives with something like that. There was a chickenshit cop on scene at the Parkland massacre too who got shit-canned. I think he either was or is still being sued by parents.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @trollhattan:

    Mr McCraw, Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), told the public hearing: “The officers had weapons, the children had none. The officers had body armour, the children had none.

    Which is why Texas will mandate that children have weapons and body armor in schools.

    ETA:

    Why is Mr. McCraw speaking in British English?

  22. 22.

    stinger

    These hearings have been so good. Every last one of the witnesses (except possibly the two poll workers; they weren’t asked) has been a committed Republican. Truly bi-partisan hearings!

    And it doesn’t seem like they’re even nearing the bottom of the barrel yet, as far as topics. They could hold 20 of them.

    What I want to know is, what did Chuck Grassley know and when did he know it? I want him testifying before the committee.

  23. 23.

    germy shoemangler

    I’m looking forward to Thursday’s hearing.

    This is when we’ll see the documentary footage of the former guy and his crime family watching the violence as it unfolds.  Will there be fist pumping from TFG?

  24. 24.

    Scott

    @Jerzy Russian: OAN has settled their defamation suit filed by the two women.  Defamation suit against Giuilani is ongoing.  Anybody know if a suit against Trump is allowed?

  25. 25.

    Mike Furlan

    “It painted a vivid picture of how Trump’s lies and bullying hurt good and honorable people trying to do their jobs. It depicted Trump as a bully and his sycophants as thugs.”

    Most white Americans love this, and will vote in ever increasing numbers for him if he runs again.

    He got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and running as a Bully hurting honorable people will get him record numbers in 2024.

    No solution that I know of, except to get the majority of good people out to vote.

  26. 26.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Up to this point, the January 6th Committee has done an amazing job making the case against Trump.  This lunatic is an existential threat to the Constitution and he needs to go to prison. If he walks away unpunished, it will be a fucking travesty.

  28. 28.

    Scout211

    The recordings of actual Trump phone calls to election officials and state officials were chilling. Trump sounded exactly like every mob boss character in the movies, calmly telling the officials to commit election crimes and subtly threatening that there will be consequences if they don’t. It was sickening.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    After Staye’s testimony, Jake Tapper called it a reign of terror.   Republicans think it’s a sport to terrorize people.

  34. 34.

    Layer8Problem

    @Scott:  “If the President does it it’s not illegal.  Many people are saying this, many people.  I had a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, I don’t want to name any names, say with tears in his eyes ‘If the President does it it’s not illegal.'”

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    This is really Must See TV.  And I think some of it is filtering out to the “normies.”  Maybe even those who scoffed at the outset.

  39. 39.

    Layer8Problem

    @Baud: Why is Mr. McCraw speaking in British English?

    I believe he’s speaking in BBC, home of the link it’s from.

  41. 41.

    smintheus

    @JPL:  One thing I’m surprised by is that, at least in commentary I’ve seen so far, nobody is discussing the most riveting part of today’s testimony: Shaye Moss’ description of how she now avoids going out even to the market because she’s so terrified and traumatized by the vicious threats coming from shadowy terrorists. She’s living in such fear that she’s terrified her mother might call to her by name in a public setting.

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    I am very excited for everyone in the country and beyond to learn about the execrable Mr. Jeffrey Clark at DOJ.* Thursday will NOT be boring.

    * One of my best friends at the EPA has long told me horror stories about the seeming pay for pollution play in the EPA, which was Clark’s home before it was Sedition Central.

  43. 43.

    Almost Retired

    btw, Jason Johnson is on fire on Nicolle Wallace.  Jesus, I really do have work to do and shouldn’t still be watching this stuff.   But the legal problems of three little clients don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, so it can wait.

  44. 44.

    dave319

    @stinger: This. Grassbag needs to answer for his chilling 1/5 quote specifically referencing himself as third in line of succession behind Pelosi and Pence.

    What kind of conspiracy of dunces could it be that  contains a dunce like Chuck Grassley, yet said dunce conspiracy somehow managed to elude the attention of the entire Washington press elite?

  45. 45.

    cain

    @trollhattan:

    Anybody flying a blue lives flag should be ashamed. Literally, these people put their own lives above children and teachers and did nothing.

    Fucking useless cretins.

  46. 46.

    Elizabelle

    Jen Rubin: WaPost: Expectations about prosecuting Trump may be shifting

    Many Republicans and mainstream media commentators have intoned that the House Jan. 6 committee’s hearings wouldn’t draw ratings or change voters’ minds. That was wrong. [Surprise!] In fact, the evidence presented thus far has been far more impactful than the punditocracy predicted.

    … The question is no longer about Donald Trump’s role in the attempted coup (there is no doubt his fingerprints are all over it); instead, the country is avidly debating whether there is sufficient evidence of Trump’s corrupt intent to prosecute him for it.

    … Committee member Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) on NBC News’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday suggested that more evidence and “tips” are coming in. That’s a critical benefit of public hearings: Those sitting on the fence might feel more comfortable coming forward. Other witnesses might not have realized the importance of information they’ve had all along.

    … in the event the Justice Department decides not to prosecute Trump and his closest cronies, Attorney General Merrick Garland will be under tremendous pressure to justify why the mound of evidence is not enough. Garland has vowed to ignore all politics, and his decision will inevitably involve whether he thinks a jury can find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If anything, public expectations might be shifting such that a refusal to prosecute would seem shocking to most Americans.

    In sum, the hearings are already [Jen’s italics] having a palpable impact on the public’s perception of Trump and on state officials as they contemplate their next steps. In the end, the public might not be surprised if they lead to multiple [Jen’s italics] actions against the former president and his closest aides.

  47. 47.

    JPL

    @smintheus: I don’t know who because I was listening not watching, one of the females on CNN spoke about how the testimony moved her to tears.   The crew was pretty clear about the terror the Staye and Ruby lived under because of trump.  Jake said republicans have to cut the ties or something like that.

    Chris Wallace then returned to Bowers.

  49. 49.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: This is what I’ve thought from the beginning, that some of them decided that “those children” weren’t worth putting their lives on the line for. I think they were hoping the shooter would kill himself, so they wouldn’t have to deal with him.

  50. 50.

    jackmac

    Dear Merrick Garland: if you were still on the fence about indictments and prosecuting Trump and his minions, today’s J6 committee festival of criminality and bullying make it clear it’s past time for some perp walks.

  51. 51.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Almost Retired: 

    But the legal problems of three little clients don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, so it can wait.

    Maybe if you can resurrect Bogie to tell them that, they’ll believe you. ;)

  52. 52.

    lollipopguild

    @piratedan: Human nature. Over the years I have known lots of fellow employees who if they had spent as much time and energy Doing the job instead of avoiding the job would have been some of the best employees at the company.

  53. 53.

    Betty Cracker

    @germy shoemangler: There was an article in Rolling Stone about that. Apparently the existence of this footage blindsided a lot of Trump White House people. I’m not sure how you can NOT notice a documentary being filmed around you. Chaotic workplace, but still!

  54. 54.

    JPL

    @Elizabelle:  They have to indict, but remember one maga terrorist can cause a hung jury.   In that case, they should try again and again, until all of them are bankrupt.

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    @jackmac:   Garland has to build the strongest case possible.  I would bet we are going to see Trump and his cronies prosecuted.

    I’ve never thought he was on the fence about any of this.

    Immanetize and other attorneys here have spoken of how you prosecute the mob. Garland seems to be following that playbook.

    And there is even more urgency, since we have midterms and 2024 coming up quickly.

    Patience for a little while longer, grasshopper.

  57. 57.

    Elizabelle

    @JPL:  Yes.  The potential for rogue jurors will be a problem.  All the more reason for the strongest case possible.  (Albeit, everyone realizes time is of limited supply.). I also think the other jurors would not be shy about outing the rogue in their midst.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: I know — they missed the camera guy and sound equipment? I know it is not the cameras of the 1960s, but still!

    What they are really saying is: “I never thought that would become public.”

  63. 63.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cain: ​
     

    Anybody flying a blue lives flag should be ashamed. Literally, these people put their own lives above children and teachers and did nothing.

    The illusory blue line.

    I still find myself crying when I think of those kids desperately calling 911 on their cell phones, while 19 cops stood out in the hallway for an hour and didn’t even try the goddamned doorknob.

    How those cops can live with themselves, I don’t know. If I’d been one of them, I’d have killed myself within days, just to shut my brain up forever.

  64. 64.

    HumboldtBlue

    The committee has subpoenaed the director of a documentary film who worked behind the scenes with the Trump family in the final weeks of his presidency. He has complied.

    The subpoena from the committee requests that Holder turn over any “raw footage” filmed by him or his team on Jan. 6, 2021, as well as footage of interviews from Sept. 2020 through the present with President Trump, his children, Jared Kushner, and Vice President Mike Pence. The committee also requested any footage in Holder’s possession “pertaining to discussions of election fraud or election integrity surrounding the November 2020 presidential election.”

  66. 66.

    gwangung

    @JPL: 

    Yeah, that’s the one reason I’d accept for Garland’s slowness. I don’t think there’s any doubt that there’s a segment of the country who’d aquit the orange gasbag of any charge, no matter how much evidence.

    It’s a matter of jury selection and how many times they can get at it.

  67. 67.

    Skepticat

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: 

    The Georgia guys were effective too. Schiff did a great job of staying matter of fact

    One of the things I find most compelling about all these hearings is how matter of fact and efficient each person is. Politicians who don’t grandstand even when given the perfect opportunity—whoda thunk it?

  70. 70.

    JPL

    Let’s remember that everyone who testified today will get more death threats because of their testimony.   sad

  72. 72.

    bbleh

    @Elizabelle: It certainly is plausible that some is filtering out — it’s packaged VERY artfully to be excerpted and forwarded via both large-scale media and social media, and the quality has been … smashing, but I would like to see some evidence regarding how much of it indeed is filtering out.  This is #3; I wonder whether there has been any research at least regarding #1.  I know the “viewership” estimate for #1 was around 20M, and I’m pretty sure that was Nielsen and so probably missed a lot of streaming (especially given that their numbers skewed HEAVILY old), but that doesn’t account for all the clips and comments and outtakes and and and …

  73. 73.

    Geminid

    @germy shoemangler: I hope they can get Cippoline to testify. I think the Committee’s staff has interviewed him already. Cippoline knows a lot.

    Fun Cippoline facts: Anthony Pasquale “Pat” Cippoline was born in the Bronx, New York. His familiy moved to Kentucky where he attended now-notorious Covington Catholic High School. I don’t know where he got his undergraduate education, but Cippoline received his law degree from the University of Chicago Law School. He succeeded Don McGahn as White House Counsel and like I said, Cippoline knows a lot.

  75. 75.

    EmanG

    “They took my name.” That was the most chilling thing I heard today (and I spent most of the hearing under a blanket). Lady Ruby. A name built in a community over decades. A name to be proud of. Now she refuses to wear the shirt she proudly wore proclaiming it. I would love to see an “I am Spartacus” moment around her. She deserves her name back.

  78. 78.

    lowtechcyclist

    @germy shoemangler: ​
     

    I’m looking forward to Thursday’s hearing.

    This is when we’ll see the documentary footage of the former guy and his crime family watching the violence as it unfolds. Will there be fist pumping from TFG?

    I’ve always thought he’d have been bouncing up and down in his chair with excitement, with a big grin on his face, just like a little kid.

  82. 82.

    Immanentize

    @germy shoemangler: I think Cippolini did a bunch of criming and is smart enough to know he did. He may have tried to stop some of the worst of it, but mild brakes on the crime train is not exculpatory.

  83. 83.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Elizabelle: one apparent reason the DOJ asked for the J6 committee’s interview transcripts is to see if witnesses are saying different things to different investigators.

    Some of the urgency seems related to discovery deadlines related to pending J6 trials, but I’ve seen some takes that the scope of the request may indicate new indictments are in the pipeline.

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Elizabelle: ​
     

    Immanetize and other attorneys here have spoken of how you prosecute the mob. Garland seems to be following that playbook.

    And there is even more urgency, since we have midterms and 2024 coming up quickly.

    The Dems probably need to push a reconciliation bill through Congress this summer or fall anyway, but they should pre-fund the entire DOJ, and this investigation/set of prosecutions in particular, for the next two years. Just to make sure the GOP can’t turn off the funding tap if they re-take either house of Congress.

  86. 86.

    JPL

    @gwangung: Live hearings might destroy trump and his mob family, that even some maga’s might turn against him.   He might lose for winning.

  87. 87.

    germy shoemangler

    @Betty Cracker:  Apparently the existence of this footage blindsided a lot of Trump White House people.

    The filmmaker’s testimony should be interesting, too.  He was in rooms with these people.  Whatever his camera didn’t catch I’m sure he can describe.

  88. 88.

    Jeffro

    @WaterGirl:

    Wistful.  “It didn’t have to be this way.  The whole thing was built on lies.”

    YES.

    Why didn’t the so-called billionaire just walk away, happy, back into his pampered life of golf, more golf, and quality time with the First of All First Ladies Melania?  Remember the endless wailing from the MAGAts about how much trumpov was ‘giving up’ in order to do our nation such heroic service as our president?

    (Because when you’re out of office…people find out all. kinds. of. shit. about your criminal acts, that’s why)

  89. 89.

    raven

    Ya’ll want to bitch about MSNBC’s commentators need to watch Jason Johnson on Nicole.

  92. 92.

    germy shoemangler

    @Jeffro:  (Because when you’re out of office…people find out all. kinds. of. shit. about your criminal acts, that’s why)

    If he hadn’t gone into office he could have continued his hijinks.  NYC authorities didn’t seem to care.  But the cockroach had to turn on the kitchen light

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: agreed.

    Wish Dems would make more hay of it – the country was *this * close to seeing half of Congress dragged out and then executed on the Capitol steps

  95. 95.

    debbie

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’ve seen footage of them standing in a narrow, elevated tent, watching the rally below. That Kimberly chick of course is dancing in place…

  99. 99.

    germy shoemangler

    @debbie:

    Didn’t she get paid $60k for that?

    I think she gave a brief speech and then danced in the tent.  Nice work if you can get it.

  100. 100.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Almost Retired: 

    btw, Jason Johnson is on fire on Nicolle Wallace

    I second Jason Johnson’s comments. I appreciate the testimony of Raffensperger and Sterling, but Johnson was 100% correct that these 2 guys are fully supportive of measures to disenfranchise African American voters.

  101. 101.

    Immanentize

    @Sister Golden Bear: There is an exculpatory evidence issue — did someone say something to the J6 committee helpful to a defendant that the DOJ doesn’t know about? It is a somewhat complicated issue because the executive branch is most certainly not the legislative branch. But some things the legislative branch might do can ruin a DOJ prosecution — think Ollie North.

    So, DOJ does not want to have to show their red bottoms if they can avoid it.

  102. 102.

    Elizabelle

    @germy shoemangler:   That’s what Howard Stern, of all people, has been saying for ages.

    He could not see what was in it for Trump for being POTUS.

    Trump, of course, saw grift and adulation.  But he is a bear of limited intelligence, and did not see all the legal peril that would come his way.  Once the spotlight shown.

    Princess Sparkle Pony probably rues not dissuading him.  I have hopes Trump will take the whole family down.

    Would be nice if the the retired NYState judge got embroiled, too.

  107. 107.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: I don’t know. I think probably some staffers might have. I certainly would have requested that for my client’s Tea.

  109. 109.

    James E Powell

    @raven:

    Professor Jason Johnson said what the entire press/media world refuses to say. Needs to be repeated by everyone every day in the hopes that it penetrates into some brains.

    Recent poll showed more Americans would vote for Trump than for Biden. We have work to do.

  110. 110.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    I second Jason Johnson’s comments. I appreciate the testimony of Raffensperger and Sterling, but Johnson was 100% correct that these 2 guys are fully supportive of measures to disenfranchise African American voters.

    And AFAIAC, that’s a nontrivial part of the continuing coup plot.  They’re doing their damnedest to make sure every election from here on out is well and truly rigged so that they can’t lose, and the disenfranchisement, the gerrymandering, and a bunch of other things are part of that.

  111. 111.

    Roger Moore

    @cain:

    Anybody flying a blue lives flag should be ashamed.

    Uvalde shows what they really mean when they say Blue Lives Matter: blue lives matter more than black or brown lives.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m not sure how you can NOT notice a documentary being filmed around you.

    Fish, water.  They’re so used to everything around them being filmed that they don’t even stop to think about it.  And they’re so steeped in privilege they never even considered there might be consequences for doing it.

  116. 116.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @germy shoemangler:

    Team Normal

    Team Normal should be Team Slightly Less Horrible. Team Normal enabled Trump for four years, so none of these fucking creeps deserve any goddamn medals or praise.

  118. 118.

    Raven

    @Elizabelle: He is fucking pissed off!”All these other people will go back to their offices with protection. Not the Black women who were just doing their jobs”!!

  120. 120.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m not sure how you can NOT notice a documentary being filmed around you. Chaotic workplace, but still!

    Trump surrounded himself with a world class confederacy of dunces.

  123. 123.

    Betty Cracker

    @Elizabelle: Clip:

  124. 124.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @germy shoemangler:

    Hopefully, today’s testimony moves the needle closer to Trump losing his Teflon coating and finally getting the indictment that he richly deserves.

  126. 126.

    James E Powell

    @Elizabelle:

    Clip not available yet. Not sure what the usual time lag is.

    @Betty Cracker: got it done!

    Me trying to give an account of Professor Johnson’s statements today – the words & the delivery – would be like me trying to play Hendrix’s solo from All Along the Watchtower.  I can’t. I won’t try.

  127. 127.

    gene108

    I like how Chairman Thompson emphasized the government is not an abstract or alien entity, but is made up of people doing their jobs making sure rules are followed and civil society can function.

    This does not get emphasized enough, especially with Republicans going about “Second Amendment solutions” to “government tyranny”. The government is pretty much a bunch of relatively well meaning people doing their jobs. Their “solution”, if they carry it out , means people getting killed. It means a bloodbath and the breakdown of society.

    Somehow the connection of the government being run by real live human beings does not get made enough.

  129. 129.

    zhena gogolia

    @Elizabelle: All due respect, he uses his airtime to dump on the Democrats and Biden. Sorry, not impressed. Plus, of course, Merrick Garland. Pisses me off.

  131. 131.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Elizabelle:

    Or summary of all the points he made

    Most important takeaway for me from Jason Johnson’s commentary is that while Raffensperger and Sterling did the right thing by rejecting Trump’s arm twisting, they’re not good guys because they support all the efforts made by Republican politicians in Georgia to disenfranchise African American voters.

  132. 132.

    Betty Cracker

    @gene108: That’s an excellent point. I thought it was really powerful the way the committee showed the full range of how destructive Trump’s lies are, from elected Republicans all the way to regular people who are doing important but unglamorous jobs their communities.

    One of the scariest takeaways for me was Ms. Moss’s testimony about leaving a job she loved, along with all of her coworkers, due to the harassment. These people are the nuts and bolts of democracy all over the country, and they’re being run out by terrorist nutcases.

  134. 134.

    bluefoot

    @Mike Furlan: ​
      I’m glad you said this, because it my experience it’s true. Even for the white Americans who don’t love it, a disturbing number are okay with it happening as long as they aren’t the ones being affected.
    I know more than a few (who are friends!) who feel they need to “go with the flow” so that they aren’t put into the out group, so to speak. At least one of them was honest enough to tell me (a POC) that they don’t have the courage to stand up when push comes to shove so I shouldn’t count on them.

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

  136. 136.

    Elizabelle

    @Wyatt Salamanca:   Yeah.  Both of those statements can be true.

    I remember watching Raffenberger and Sterling kind of pleading with Georgia [white] voters to come out for the special Senate election, since Trump had thrown around so many fraud accusations.  They looked kind of desperate.

    Lucky for us!!

  137. 137.

    JPL

    @Raven: During the fifteen minutes that I watched,  Tapper didn’t try to both sides the testimony.   He really thinks it time for republicans to call trump out on the bullshit.

    I guess Christie who thinks he might be presidential material did both sides the shit.

  140. 140.

    germy shoemangler

    @debbie:

    I hope they win millions from lawsuits, enough to place them in a nice big house in a gated community, away from the magat rabble.

  141. 141.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Elizabelle:

    I’m glad Jason Johnson made this point. Too many pundits are rushing to proclaim anyone testifying at these hearings as heroic while ignoring some rotten acts they’ve committed in the past.

  142. 142.

    stinger

    @Elizabelle: One thing that has stood out to me from the first hearing is how respectiful the committee is toward its witnesses. They aren’t questioned harshly, but are mostly allowed to tell their story in their own way. They’re introduced with almost lavish praise.

    IANAL, so maybe this is standard practice, but I’d think that, watching the committee’s gentle treatment of witnesses, more people might be encouraged to come forward, even when they have testimony that might be embarrassing or even self-incriminating.

  144. 144.

    Scout211

    A person “close” to Cippolone responds to Cheney.

    Huh.

    A person close to former Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone told NBC News on Tuesday: “Pat has been cooperative with the committee with President Trump’s permission, but there are serious institutional concerns and privilege issues and those have been recognized by the committee.”

  145. 145.

    Scott

    One extremely small, trivial thing that made me laugh:  the video of Ronna ROMNEY McDaniel.  Remember Trump made her drop the Romney from her name. I wonder if the video editors made that change to ping Trump.

  146. 146.

    Geminid

    @Elizabelle: Usually the Democratic vote in Georgia runoffs drops off more than the Republican. But in the Senate runoff January 5, 2021, Jon Ossoff’s vote was only 105,000 less than in November, while David Perdue’s dropped by 260,000 and that made the difference. Raphael Warnock ran 20,000 votes ahead of Ossoff while beating Kelly Loefler. Trump’s hard core supporters were mad at the “RINO” establishment for not supporting their hero and they took it out on Loeffler and Perdue.

    I think that trump’s meddling may cost Republicans more Senate seats this fall.

  147. 147.

    raven

    @Geminid: We had a “Hot Corner” festival last weekend in Athens at the traditional African American business area (that is now hipster heaven”. They had a voters registration table and apparently it did really well.

  148. 148.

    gene108

    @Betty Cracker:

    There was an article in Rolling Stone about that. Apparently the existence of this footage blindsided a lot of Trump White House people. I’m not sure how you can NOT notice a documentary being filmed around you. Chaotic workplace, but still!

    One of the first books published about the Trump White House was a by a guy (Michael Wolf, maybe?), who just invited himself in and hung around talking to White House officials.

    They really do not pay attention to basic things.

  149. 149.

    JPL

    @Scout211:    Shorter statement, please trump don’t give me the same treatment you did Staye and Ruby.   I’ll be good now.

  151. 151.

    zhena gogolia

    @debbie: Don’t use your 2 minutes of airtime to dump on the Democrats. We have an election coming up, noticed?

  152. 152.

    Scout211

    And now a Johnson spokesperson responds:

    Johnson spokeswoman Alexa Henning downplayed the texts after they were publicly revealed for the first time during the committee’s hearing in Washington, but did not deny that Johnson had wanted to hand-deliver the slate of fake electors to Pence.

    “The senator had no involvement in the creation of an alternate slate of electors and had no foreknowledge that it was going to be delivered to our office,” Henning tweeted. “This was a staff to staff exchange. His new Chief of Staff contacted the Vice President’s office. The Vice President’s office said not to give it to him and we did not. There was no further action taken. End of story.”

  155. 155.

    debbie

    @zhena gogolia:

    What is it he said that is wrong? Have they been afforded protection that I didn’t hear about? Should these women have to live in hiding and in fear for the rest of their lives? Nope.

    I find the attitude that NOTHING NEGATIVE can be said about Joe at in any way to be troubling, particularly in its parallel to the other party.

  158. 158.

    Elizabelle

    @Sister Golden Bear:   New indictments in the pipeline.  That would be frosty.

    Incidentally, is Steve Bannon in the US?  Or are he and his four shirts at a time hanging out in some nation without an extradition treaty?

  159. 159.

    Geminid

    @raven: I think Georgia Republicans may have maxed out their voters. They’ve certainly tried hard the last decade. Democrats still have untapped potential and and 100 days to tap it. Polls show Abrams beating Kemp in the 18-50 age group of registered voters, and a lot more of these are not registered. Yet.

  160. 160.

    debbie

     

    Do they have protection, bc we know they’re definitely going to need more safety after today. Maybe a Go Fund Me?
    — Kathleen Maclay (@kathleenmaclay) June 21, 2022

     

    No. It was requested but denied by both local law enforcement and FBI
    — SherryLynn (@SherrySherrmorr) June 21, 2022

    Nice, America.

  163. 163.

    pajaro

    @rikyrah:

    The Democratic Party of Wisconsin needs to be ready with ads about Ron Johnson and what he did here.

    I think the Democratic party will be on it.  They know their stuff.

     

     

    @rikyrah:

  166. 166.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Immanentize:

    There is an exculpatory evidence issue — did someone say something to the J6 committee helpful to a defendant that the DOJ doesn’t know about?

    I was typing on my phone and oversimplified, but that’s exactly the argument I heard. The urgency appears to be an upcoming a discovery deadline for turning over things to the defense in some of the pending cases,

    But of course the DOJ also doesn’t want to run into any unexpected surprises regarding exculpatory evidence for any investigations still underway.

    Though, I as sure you’re aware, the transcripts and other J6 evidence, can also be used to evaluate credibility of individuals (i.e. is their story consistent), as well as potentially going after instances where they think an individual lied to either Congress or DOJ (or both).

  167. 167.

    VOR

    @gene108: I suspect the fundamental problem is that being around TFG was chaos. People coming and going daily. Lots of gossip about who is in favor and who is out. And probably camera crews from right wing media all the time so a camera crew would not be out of place.

    One of the Woodward books had people stealing documents off his desk to keep him from signing them. President short attention span.

  169. 169.

    geg6

    @germy shoemangler:

    I am dying to see that hearing.  I’m going to have to record it.  I’ll be corralling and presenting to parents for our third freshman orientation session of the week.  It’s the first in-person orientations we’ve done since summer 2019.

  172. 172.

    catclub

    @Wyatt Salamanca: ​
     

    This lunatic is an existential threat to the Constitution and he needs to go to prison.

    Having enough ‘regular people’ believe his lies is the problem. Our fellow citizens. gaah.

    trump is stupid in many ways. but he knows people, and his line about ‘say whatever and they will believe you’ is his key insight.

  173. 173.

    debbie

    @zhena gogolia:

    What????

    Those tweets show that protection was requested and denied, which is separate from the hope that the Dems would step forward to assist these ladies in regaining their lives.

  174. 174.

    zhena gogolia

    @debbie: he had two minutes on national tv. He chose to use it to dump on the democrats and Biden. Forgive me if I don’t cheer

  175. 175.

    debbie

    I’m happy to see Moss and Freeman have retained attorneys and are suing. Hopefully, they’ll see to it that their clients remain safe. According to this thread, the attorneys specialize in fighting cases revolving around conspiracy theories (ie, Seth Rich).

  178. 178.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Wyatt Salamanca: Well, there’s SORT OF an equivalency. Republicans also orchestrated a violent and threatening mob to intimidate proper government operations and the determination of an election winner.

    The Brooks Brothers Riot is something that I can’t understand doesn’t get more attention. They literally paid a bunch of literal republican operatives (including people who are high profile today) to fake a riot and threaten a bunch of poll workers and (indirectly) judges and pressure the Supreme Court to shut down the count. Which they did.

  179. 179.

    JoyceH

    @Elizabelle: ​
     

    That’s what Howard Stern, of all people, has been saying for ages.

    He could not see what was in it for Trump for being POTUS.

    Trump, of course, saw grift and adulation. But he is a bear of limited intelligence, and did not see all the legal peril that would come his way. Once the spotlight shown.

    Adulation. Count on it. The same thing he’s been chasing since he moved from Queens to Manhattan, and tried to fit in with the real Old Money types. But he never had the intelligence or the discipline to even pass for Classy.

    Trump will always be a very disappointed man. He despises the people who adore him, and the people he wants to adore him despise him. THEY are why he ran for president, THEY are the people he was trying to impress. Okay, they sneer at me now, but just wait until I’ve got the salutes, the Resolute desk, Marine One on the South Lawn. Look how admired and respected Obama is – I’ll take that desk and that helicopter and all the bells and whistles, and I too will be admired and respected.

    But – it was not to be. And can I just say? HA!

    What’s weirdly funny is that the only complaint Trump had about the crowd taking over the Capitol is that his supporters looked too low class.

  182. 182.

    Captain C

    @Jeffro:

    Why didn’t the so-called billionaire just walk away, happy, back into his pampered life of golf, more golf, and quality time with the First of All First Ladies Melania?  Remember the endless wailing from the MAGAts about how much trumpov was ‘giving up’ in order to do our nation such heroic service as our president?

    (Because when you’re out of office…people find out all. kinds. of. shit. about your criminal acts, that’s why)

    That, and his hard core personality disorder probably won’t let him accept such a public defeat and humiliation (IANAP).

    Of course, if he’d never run, likely his various crimes would still be mostly uncared about by hardly anyone not in his personal sphere.

  186. 186.

    Tony G

    @Jerzy Russian: These women (Black — by sheer coincidence) were deliberately slandered by Trump and Giuliani, and they’ve gone through hell because of it.  Is there any reason why those two thugs should not be sued to the point of bankruptcy?  (Trump has been bankrupt several times during his “successful” career as a real estate developer.  He should be used to it by now.)

  187. 187.

    Tony G

    Way off-topic but … This afternoon I got a good insight into how Fox News works.  I was visiting a beloved Uncle (91 years old) in the hospital.  He’s a very good natured, sweet guy, and, like many men his age, he enjoys Fox News.  He had it on in his hospital room with (fortunately) the sound off.  A collection of buxom young women in short skirts, with the daily propaganda talking points in the chyrons.  Pretty effective, I guess, for their demographic of old white men.  “Believe these talking points and the young woman in the short skirt will like you.”  Pretty obvious, but I’m not used to seeing it in real time.

  188. 188.

    J R in WV

    @Baud: ​
     

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t know how a person lives with something like that.

    I fall to pieces when I find a typo in a work document.

    Me too, on grant applications I spent weeks working on, had staff proof-read, still after sending them off to DC I would find something obviously wrong. No tears, but seriously upset every time. Got the awards mostly,, but still, want it to be perfect every time!!!

  189. 189.

    J R in WV

    @Jeffro: ​
     

    Wish Dems would make more hay of it – the country was *this * close to seeing half of Congress dragged out and then executed LYNCHED on the Capitol steps

    Fixed this for you. Lynched is what happens when a mob kills someone. Executed is what happens after a court proceeding and many appeals are completed. None of which took place before the Jan 6th insurrection.

  190. 190.

    J R in WV

    @Roger Moore:

    Uvalde shows what they really mean when they say Blue Lives Matter: blue lives matter more than black or brown any one else’s lives.

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