If a police officer fails to give a suspect his Miranda warnings, and the gov't uses the suspect's un-Mirandized statements against him in court, can the suspect sue the officer for violating his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination? In a 6-3 ruling, SCOTUS says no.
— SCOTUSblog (@SCOTUSblog) June 23, 2022
This is as good a time as any to remind each and everyone of you to NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE EVER. You literally have nothing to gain and everything to lose. It’s right there in the fucking Miranda warning- “Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.”
It doesn’t say “Anything you say can be used to prove your innocence.”
It doesn’t say “Innocent people never go to jail when they talk to cops”
It doesn’t say “You can prove to these guys you are innocent if you just keep talking and telling the truth.”
DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS EVER.
Thursday Morning Open Thread: Every Day A Busy Day
Elizabelle
Expand the Supreme Court. This one is fucking illegitimate
Make the case. And do it.
raven
That’s ok, now you can pack damn near everywhere! “Bear Arms” mean carrying outside the home.
JPL
That and striking down a century old law New York law that prohibits concealed carry unless you can show you need it.
Elizabelle
RE Bruen: time for a day without a customer. Or a shopper.
Do you feel safer out in public now? I do not.
Baud
@raven:
The lack of guns really hurt the 1/6 insurrectionists’ ability to carry out their plans.
Kofuu
A video from 10 years ago. More true now…
It’s a lecture by a law professor. Sounds boring?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Edmund Dantes
You actually do have to talk.
“am I free to go?”
and “I want a lawyer present”.
otherwise silence can and has been used against people in scotus cases.
“he never asked for a lawyer”
”he never asked to leave”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Huh. You mean judges or whatever the hell inside baseball matter? Who knew?
Betty Cracker
debbie
Not sure how long I can continue following SCOTUSblog’s live feed. Too depressing.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
The governor has already announced NY isn’t powerless to respond to this ruling.
Benw
Supreme Court decides:
Places guns are allowed: EVERYWHERE
Places guns are not allowed: Supreme Court buildings
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie:
Good for her. I like what I see of Hochul
ksmiami
Not a moment of peace for these 12th century judges. They can’t remain cloistered in their homes and courthouses forever…
JPL
@debbie: I had to shut it down. Is it fair to call it an activist court since they struck down a century old law?
Leto
Looking at the four rulings that came out today, so far, and three out of the four are shit. Protecting cops, enabling more guns everywhere, and enabling further minority rule. The ruling about the firing squad might buy the prisoner more time, idk. It’s fucking barbaric too.
@Elizabelle: agreed.
JPL
FDA just outlawed JUUL e-cigs, so I’m sure the Supreme Court will quickly overturn that. Some addictive drugs shouldn’t be regulated. Can’t wait to see how they twist that.
Elizabelle
I am so angry about these rulings.
I would suspect the majority of Americans are, too.
Maybe we can use this in the midterms.
And: expand the Court. We are not safe with these 18th century reactionaries on the Court in the 21st century.
debbie
@JPL:
I’d call it a nutty court since it will be relying on some 17th century Puritan-type to rule on Roe v. Wade.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@JPL:
As I understand it, the first prong of analysis of any current legal challenge is what the conservative supermajority thinks of the law being challenged. After that, the analysis shifts to whether they can say that it wasn’t historically done that way during the period of the Norman Conquest up to the Articles of Confederation….
debbie
@Leto:
Got any more info on this?
JPL
Tomorrow will the supremes weaken the EPA laws or call the EPA unconstitutional.
Amir Khalid
My sympathy about the ill-considered judgements coming from your Supreme Court today.
JPL
Stolen from some comment on the news: the Supreme Court six want to force babies to be born so they can babe used for target practice.
From Thomas Levenson’s twitter feed
schrodingers_cat
I hope voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries and then calling the primaries rigged when he lost fair and square was worth it for the left wing populists.
ian
@Baud: Hard to tell with your snark meter, it flies under the radar, but Marcy Wheeler has documented numerous cases of the 1/6 people with guns.
Geminid
@JPL: It’s a radical decision. In hisHeller opinion, Alito balanced an individual right to bear arms with the power of government for reasonable regulation of firearms, including their sale and use. Alito, who was no squish, specifically included longstanding regulations like the New York statute.
The immediate effect of this law is to make New York a “shall issue” state when it comes to concealed carry permits. Virginia has been that way since Republicans modified the standard for concealed carry fifteen years ago, although requirements for training still remain. But the broader effect of this decision is that just about any restriction on gun rights will now be challenged, perhaps successfully.
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: Dred Scott for the internet age.
Deplorables. On the Supreme Court. A 6-3 majority.
Mai Naem mobile
Why is it that these mofos always apply the garbage laws from rural flyover shit red states to densely populated blue states but never the other way around. These piggy judges really think we will always live in some banana republic. So depressing.
Elizabelle
I am so glad for the J6 hearings today. Because otherwise, it’s a day to stay off the news sites.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: BJ has “experts” who will tell you that the only thing you can do is flee the country.
Ivan X
Ha, I learned that (seriously) years ago from all the Law & Order I watched. And those are the good cops.
Villago Delenda Est
What the esteemed Mr. Cole just said. Especially if you’ve got more melanin than he or me.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ivan X: Totally fictional cops.
azlib
@debbie:
The Supreme Court has no police force. Enforcing this ruling against a hostile and economically powerful state will be interesting to watch.
Hungry Joe
@Kofuu: YES! That’s an incredibly helpful (and hugely entertaining) video. I recommend it all the time.
It’s fascinating, the way he shows how saying something innocuous to a police officer, when you’re perfectly innocent, can get you into serious trouble. Our great weakness: We all want to tell our story. Cops’ great advantages: They can lie to you. They have time. And they can twist seemingly harmless statements into damning evidence.
Ask if you’re under arrest. Ask if you’re free to go. Tell them that you do not consent to a search. Inform them that you want an attorney. Inform them that you need to use the restroom. That’s it. Say NOTHING ELSE. Concentrate on pressing your lips together, if you have to.
First, watch the video.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: I am already planning on that, very honestly. In a few years. I’ve had it. Better to watch this shit from abroad.
ksmiami
@Mai Naem mobile: Agreed. It’s really time to split the country and line the blue border with nukes.
Geminid
@ian: There were certainly guns illegally carried by some of the insurrectionists. But it was a far different situation from the invasion of the Michigan Capitol the year before, where many of the invaders openly carried firearms including assault-type rifles.
Elizabelle
@azlib: That occurs to me. They’ve made the law. Now let them enforce it.
ksmiami
@Mai Naem mobile: Garbage Court.. Time for limiting their jurisdiction
JPL
@Geminid: We need to hold the Senate and expand the court before that happens.
Baud
@Geminid:
I thought Heller was Scalia.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: I don’t have that option. My decision to stay was made when I became a citizen 5 years ago.
Tony Jay
Looks like the radical Right are in a hurry to wreak as much havoc on the US as they can manage. I wonder what they see in the future that might diminish their ability to do damage?
Leto
@debbie: Supreme Court says GOP lawmakers can intervene to defend North Carolina voter ID law
If a Republican doesn’t like what a Dem is doing, even though they’re the duly elected official in that position? Well they can just bring their own suit in tandem! It’s just enabling further minority control.
Geminid
@Baud: Thank you for the correction! It was Scalia who wrote the Heller opinion, not Alito.
TheTruffle
@debbie: Good. How long before governors decide to ignore this stuff.
And when does a backlash against these Neanderthals begin? This is ridiculous.
schrodingers_cat
White people would rather burn this country down than share it with the ones they consider the other. Voting Republican at any level says that’s what you want. The biggest demographic in this country has voted R since civil rights legislation passed.
Immanentize
Three interesting things about the SCOTUS gun case (which I just read):
First, and most important: the decision in the case is actually the opinion (concurrence) by Kavenaugh joined by Roberts. In it, they make clear that the case only invalidates 6 state’s laws that have wide open discretion to grant or not grant a carry license. They call these “may” laws as opposed to “shall” laws which 43 states have which set up very clear rules (without individual actor discretion) about when you will get a carry permit. For the record, this is how I thought the case would go, and it did.
Second, Barrett says that when judging the constitutionality of a law, one cannot consider the world around or post the 14th amendment. In other words, we can only consider the thinking of white slave owning men. Thanks for sharing.
Third, Alito is a motherfucking shitstain idiot hate troll who just had to point out in his dogdamned opinion that the NY gun laws did not stop the Buffalo shooting. Motherfuck him and John Wayne.
TheTruffle
@Elizabelle: I feel the same way. I think that the campaign ads should write themselves.
@Leto: So a Dem could do the same per this logic? Am I right?
Leto
@Geminid:
It’s not a perhaps, it’s a guarantee. Doesn’t matter how insane and idiotic it is, how much danger it puts the rest of us in, how harmful to society it will be (because remember, the majority said they don’t consider how the law will play out in real time, or the future effects) for society… nope, none of that. Just… it’s not even noon. FFS.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Actually you do have that option, as you know. As a US citizen, you are free to travel, and relocate abroad. Your choice.
HinTN
Probably apochraphal but…
Immanentize
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: Legally speaking yes. If I can’t fit in here or the country of my birth there is little chance I would else where. Besides I don’t want to. I have moved 7 times in my life so far. I am done moving
Leto
@TheTruffle: you would think that, right? But that’s not the current reality that we live in.
Josie
@schrodingers_cat:
I agree. LBJ knew it and said it would happen. It happened. Racism is the basis for everything they have done since then. I don’t know how you get rid of something so ingrained.
debbie
@Leto:
Jesus. Thanks.
Geminid
@Leto: We’ll see. As a commenter noted above, the concurrence attempts to limit the ruling’s scope. But the majority has stepped onto a very slippery slope.
debbie
@Immanentize:
But then they wouldn’t let Breyer bring up all the gun violence!
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: As a citizen, I am also free to stay here and tell the fascists to fuck off because it’s my country and they can’t have it that easily.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m nobody’s idea of an “expert,” but I am preparing for that option if necessary. I don’t intend to follow the example of the German Jews who had ample warning, but waited until it was too late. Their various reasons for delay were logical and fatal. I understand that not everyone can or wants to opt for Plan B, but I wouldn’t discourage people from planning for it, just in case.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, of course you are free to do that. I have done and continue to do the same. I also reserve the right to avoid being rounded up if the fascists take control, which–heaven forfend–is not a non-zero possibility.
ksmiami
We can all stop paying taxes for this crap. And hound every GOP rep and judge outside of their home or workplace.
The Moar You Know
@Tony Jay: they are freaked out at the notion of a “demographic time bomb” (an idea that originated with the left, and has been exploited by Fox et al to terrorize their older viewers) that says white voters will soon be a minority.
Never mind that the earliest date on that happening is 2040, and that American Hispanics are flipping to the GOP in ever-increasing numbers with each election.
They have plenty of time.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes agreed. I made that choice when I decide to become a citizen. I considered and pondered all the pros and cons of moving to Canada after the Orange One was elected. I even figured out what I would take, how I would pack my car etc. I applied the day before he took the oath of office.
It will be 5 years this 4th since I took the oath.
BC in Illinois
A public service announcement from the “National Lawyers Guild, Detroit & MI.”
Short, practical advice on what to do when questioned by police.
[ “Short” = four words ]
HinTN
@Omnes Omnibus: A fucking men!
Also, @Immanentize:, simmer down young man. We don’t need you to blow a gasket. We need you working! Yes, I agree
Immanentize
The SCOTUS gun decision just gave Republican senators reasons not to vote for the very small but important progress included in the proposed gun bill in Congress.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: Excellent. I agree. We are all doing that.
But, at some point, you just want to be somewhere that has a clearer eyed view of what can happen when you let the fascists in.
Immanentize
@HinTN: I wonder what gasket I would be blowing if my son had died and I was loosed from all constraints by grief and solitude.
But that didn’t happen — yay!
trollhattan
@Benw: Also, too, no uncomfortable signage in front of justice’s houses.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: We are very fortunate to have you as a new citizen. And active in your local politics. Yay you. Yay us.
That said, it’s cool to be an expat, too.
FWIW, I think in the long run, “our” side will prevail. But life is short.
jimmy higggins
John, this delightful 1:10 Public Service Announcement makes your point very clearly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWEpW6KOZDs
raven
@Josie: fuck LBJ
PaulWartenberg
My parents gave me two Talks:
the first Talk when I was 13 was about sex and girls (aka “get a girl pregnant and you are out of the house.”)
the second Talk when I was 16 and just gotten my driver’s license, was if I was out late at night with friends, and something stupid happens, and the cops take me, my parents told me “Paul, remember that we love you no matter what, so if you end up in jail first thing you need to do is call us and we will come get you, and the second thing you need to do is KEEP YOUR DAMN MOUTH SHUT.”
Cops are now going to grab anybody off the street they think is guilty, throw them into an interrogation room, bully the shit out of them until they confess to shit they did not do, and send more innocent people to jail all in the name of expediency and closing cases so they don’t have to do any heavy lifting and, you know, actually solve fucking cases.
I swear to God, everyone needs to rewatch The Wire again and watch how cops trick the shit out of clueless gang bangers. You think you’re smarter than a street kid? Fuck you, the cops will trick even college professors into confessing to shit they didn’t do.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
Isn’t this a tad overstated?
Not if they keep doing crazy, unpopular shit that wrecks everything. People will eventually become fed up
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize:
I join you in that hosanna!
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: If you are white you are an expat otherwise you are just an unwanted not pale enough immigrant other. I could go back to India of course. But the reasons I left haven’t changed if anything India has regressed under the current proto-fascist regime.
Besides I don’t want to. I am an American. This is my country. And I have decided to fight for it in whatever way I can.
MisterForkbeard
@Immanentize: Motherfuck them all.
SUPER WEIRD how these scotus cases just magically perfectly meet whatever political desires Republicans currently have, go against democrats, and overturn precedent.
I hate to suggest it, but I really do this the conservative judges are going to inspire someone to go after them. They can only push ridiculously partisan and unpopular solutions for so long and crow about it before someone snaps. And this time, they won’t have second thoughts and call 911 on themselves.
PaulWartenberg
@Immanentize: I thought they just voted for it.
trollhattan
Compare and contrast versus the previous administration’s FDA.
TheTruffle
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It looks like people are already getting fed up. See the gun debate in Texas
@schrodingers_cat: Do you regret your decision? Be honest.
topclimber
IANAL but the report quoted above says a defendant cannot sue a police officer who divulges info provided without pre-Miranda warning. What does it do as far as whether the evidence itself is tainted, and so should not be used against the defendant?
If that hasn’t changed, then the negative impact would seem to be much less.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I think we’ve already cleared the filibuster. The GOP is irrelevant.
West of the Rockies
So I can open-carry as I parade back and forth in front of Kavanaugh’s house* yelling about my various issues?
No?… that’s… curious.
*A thing I would never actually do or think about doing. Duh.
schrodingers_cat
@TheTruffle:
No. There is no place I’d rather be.
This is my karmabhoomi.
Baud
@topclimber:
That’s still in place for now. I can see the GOP 6 ditching Miranda at some point, however.
UncleEbeneezer
@Mai Naem mobile: (Red) States Rights!!!
Josie
@raven: Of course. I forgot that part.
ETA: How are you feeling?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MisterForkbeard:
That’s already begun to happen
Omnes Omnibus
@topclimber: A right that, if violated, does not result in a cause of action against the violator is less of a right than one that does. And something is either a right or it isn’t. This is a step toward overruling Miranda – the right has never like Miranda.
Leto
@topclimber: So let’s see: 1) they’re already going to use the tainted evidence to send your ass to jail for… decades. That shit is already happening now. 2) SC also previously ruled last month that “evidence of innocence” is not enough. 3) who has the money, or who’s case is sexy enough, to afford the attorney/attorneys for a long appeal case? 4) what’s the remedy for a cop who breaks the rules?
I mean, it’s just one more layer of accountability/remedy stripped away. Cop breaks the law, but the cop is again protected. That’s the negative impact.
Tony Jay
@The Moar You Know:
Well there’s that, but there’s also the possibility of incriminating evidence coming out of the Jan 6 hearings that will change the calculus around the Midterms and the solidity of the SC majority.
Crisis points can go either way, can’t they?
TheTruffle
@schrodingers_cat: I’m glad people like you have faith. I’m on the same page as Leonard Pitts here.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-leonard-pitts-unity-myth-20210222-kr6qk5oxz5dejjybv6267o6ape-story.html
Leto
@Omnes Omnibus: again, another one of those fringe right ideas that’s becoming more of a reality.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tony Jay: Doomers gotta doom.
schrodingers_cat
@TheTruffle: It is neither faith nor hope that motivate me. This is what I decided in Jan 2017. I am following through with my decision. It is the right thing to do
I take the long view. We as a country have been here before. Democracy and the rule of law is not a given. We have to fight for it. It is our turn to do so now.
lowtechcyclist
@MisterForkbeard:
Yeah, their decisions at this point are the equivalent of running through the streets yelling “Rule Of 5, Rule of 5” as they overturn our system. There’s no rhyme or reason to what they’re doing besides “this is what we want to do, so we’ll do it.”
TheTruffle
@Leto: Well, as mentioned upthread, New York is an economically powerful state with a Dem governor and there is precedent for this. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
TheTruffle
@schrodingers_cat: What is your main motivator? Also…where are you from originally?
oatler
The “Dragnet 1968” plot element has been weakened. Think of all the cop shows from that era when officers agonized over killing a “civilian” (no paid vacations as a reward for murder).
Elizabelle
@Tony Jay: That is my hope, Tony. It is looking like a good bet, actually.
Percysowner
@Betty Cracker: The states can regulate what a woman does with her OWN body. The states can’t regulate dangerous instruments of murder. I knew there was a reason that in the leaked brief Alito talked about abortion not being mentioned in the Constitution. It was so they could make this decision.
JPL
The court is going to decide whether or not to hear a case involving the Louisiana State Court that overturned the states redistricting. It will decide whether or not to allow states by themself draw lines without any other oversight.
They are going to allow Jim Crow laws aren’t they
they are supposed to rule by 5. If they overthrow the opinion until the hear the case, the republicans can draw lines anyway they want.
Elizabelle
I hate the headlines about “gun owners’ rights” and “gun rights.” What about the rest of us?
ksmiami
@MisterForkbeard: They will have to live in the dystopia they create and can only hole up for so long…
Edmund Dantes
@BC in Illinois: again. This bad advice to just shut the fuck up. It’s important but scotus has rules you have to assert your rights or how is Johnny law expected to read your mind.
Am I free to go?
I want a lawyer (p.s. can’t be a question or ambiguous. Must be a declarative statement)
otherwise. Shut the fuck up.
coin operated
@Edmund Dantes:
Just re-uping this comment. We’ve all seen the video with the law professor say “Don’t talk to the cops” and the LEO detective saying “Everything he said is right”
Yeah…10 years ago. That law professor, in a more recent video promoting his new book, says his previous video is no longer completely valid. What Dantes posted is the correct response.
Slight edit for clarity…
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Elizabelle: The majority of Americans won’t hear about these rulings
Villago Delenda Est
@Hungry Joe: Press your lips together. AND BLOW!
MisterForkbeard
@lowtechcyclist: Yep. The one consistent legal principle is that “Republicans can do what they want”.
The legal reasonings are pretty laughable in each of these cases. They overturn decades of precedent and in some cases directly contradict the judges own past statements. But they’re gambling that:
1) They have their seats and they get to decide what’s legal
2) They’re not accountable to anybody so fuck you
3) Because of 1 and 2, the legal world will shift to make their arguments valid and respectable
They’re angry that #3 isn’t happening fast enough and we’re not grateful for their slavish devotion to the republican cult.
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Actually, I think the majority will. These rulings are far-reaching, and have immediate implications for safety. Particularly for people of color.
I think the word will get out.
Edmund Dantes
@JPL: they allowed the poll tax in Florida where the government admitted they didn’t even know the fees the felons actually had to pay other than they were owed as requirement for getting back their voting rights.
MisterForkbeard
@ksmiami: I don’t think that’s really true.
Each of the judges are rich, conservative elites. The get a huge amount of extra privileges and protections by virtue of their positions. They’re rich enough to insulate themselves from the consequences of their own actions. There’s going to be a lot more gun violence, but a vanishingly small chance it affects them in any way. The family of the supreme court is going to get very different police protections and will absolutely have their miranda rights respected. If anyone in the family needs an abortion they can easily get one in a blue state, will always have the best medical care, etc.
They’re setting up a horrible hellscape where everyone ELSE is oppressed and they’re pretty happy about that.
MisterForkbeard
@Edmund Dantes: Right? “It’s totally okay to require that felons pay all their fees back, and also to simultaneously not tell them what they have to pay so they can’t pay the fees” is exactly equivalent to “felons don’t have voting rights even if the state says they do, if the republican administration doesn’t want them to vote”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MisterForkbeard:
That doesn’t mean they will never face any consequences
Cameron
@TheTruffle: An even more depressing view from somewhat further to the left. And don’t we all need more depression in our lives?
https://scheerpost.com/2022/06/22/alienated-america-mass-shootings-up-1000/
Renie
As a New Yorker this disgusts me. Conservatives talk about states’ rights until there is a state law they don’t like and the Sup Ct strikes it down. I would love to see NY Gov Hochul not follow their ruling. To any legal beagles here, what can they do then?
schrodingers_cat
@TheTruffle: I am originally from India but I have lived in the US longer than I have in India.
My guiding principles are:
Pursuit of truth and a strong sense of right and wrong, an open mind.
I find people like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden who walk the walk and don’t just talk the talk inspiring.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
That’s much more noble than my guiding principles.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud:
Obligatory: Which are?
ksmiami
@MisterForkbeard: As a card carrying member of the .05%, I disagree with this take. And as shit gets worse and worse in this country, they will not be able to have protection 24/7. It’s the same rule with Covid, or terrorism; the defended need to be right/safe 100% of the time, while the errant virus or man with a gun only needs to get through once. Nothing is 100% impregnable. Ask Theodosus
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
TBH, now I’m a little embarrassed to reveal them.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I know when you write it out, it sounds corny. I was trying to be honest.
Husband kitteh says that Tom Petty’s
I won’t back down is my anthem.
ksmiami
@Renie: SC has no enforcement mechanism. She can immediately ignore it.
FelonyGovt
@West of the Rockies: Hell, you can’t even write with chalk outside Susan Collins’s house.
rikyrah
Weakened?
How about gutted.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I didn’t mean to come off as mocking you. I think you’re a fighter.
JPL
@Edmund Dantes: CBS News video on what the judges could decide if they hear the case. link
If they allow this, then red states wouldn’t even bother have the one or two democratic representatives.
ksmiami
@FelonyGovt: Next time they should use uranium…
Geminid
@Renie: I’m no legal beagle, but it seems to me that Hochul can’t make a court convict someone for carrying a concealed weapon who qualifies under the new standard. I guess she and the state assembly can slow walk a new licensing scheme.
rikyrah
No habla engles
sab
@schrodingers_cat: Well put.
MisterForkbeard
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Oh, that’s true.
I’m sure they’ll face something minor. Maybe one of their friends gets shot. Or maybe one of their daughters needs to fly to another state or country to get an abortion. But for them, the consequences of their actions will be minor inconveniences.
Conservatives have even been working hard to stop social consequences. Elite opinion now says you’re not allowed to express disapproval, not serve them at your restaurant, tell them what you think of them or protest them. That’s called “cancelling” and if these extremely powerful and unaccountable conservatives are the victims.
So there’s going to be some minor inconvenience to them. And maybe someone will snap and do something violent. But largely: No, no consequences for them. And they know it.
frosty
@ksmiami: Fuck off. Read up on the India Partition in 1947 before you spew any more of your bloodthirsty drivel. You are an ass.
wenchacha
@Mai Naem mobile: This. This is really pissing me off this morning.
ksmiami
@MisterForkbeard: I think we need to blockade the Supreme Court with a million people. And shut off their power and water during August.
Cameron
@MisterForkbeard: One of the really horrible things about this is that the original change restoring the vote was made by Florida residents themselves, and it wasn’t close (IIRC, something like 60% voted for it). But the legislature didn’t like the result, so here we are.
ksmiami
@frosty: I have read about the partition. And this country will be unliveable if the Cons continue to dismantle it. Better for the Blue States to align with Canada and Mexico if things get as crazy as it looks.
schrodingers_cat
@frosty: They are either a FBI plant to monitor to Balloon Juice by posting nonsensical bloodthirsty drivel or just an ass.
Immanentize
@Baud:
There is oft a slip
between cup and lip.
Those chicks are not yet fully hatched. I hope you are right, but….
ksmiami
@schrodingers_cat: Except what are your answers? – moar voting; when the GOP won’t recognize Democratic wins? When the SC eliminates the agencies entrusted with the health etc of Americans, when right wing goons are patrolling the streets shooting poc under the color of “law.” When women get arrested for miscarriages?
Non-violence only gets you so far and the unsung heroes of the Civil Rights movement protected the organizers etc with guns.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MisterForkbeard:
You seem very sure that they’ll face little consequence. I’m not. They’re placing targets on their backs, essentially
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Or just flat out ignore the ruling and not pass any new licensing scheme at all
schrodingers_cat
@sab: Thanks.
@Baud: No offense taken. Thanks for calling me a fighter. Not everyone likes a fighter. The ideal Indian woman is supposed to never speak up and follow her elders unquestioningly. I fit in here much better than I ever did back in India.
ksmiami
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The SC doesn’t have any units to command…
Baud
@ksmiami:
You realize we won the last vote, right? Maybe we’ll lose the next few and the GOP will close off that route, and then things maybe get hairy. But I’ve been hearing people on the internet talking about violence as a more effective means to success since there was an Internet. Not only have they never proven their claims, the most immediate impact of such rhetoric is to discourage people from voting, thus helping to create the world we see today.
Immanentize
@frosty: Speaking of the Partition, I am really loving Ms. Marvel. Yes they are intimately connected.
Joy in FL
@BC in Illinois: That is good advice for a lot of things, and I love the video. Thanks for posting its link.
Ruckus
@Immanentize:
I’ve sat here with my fingers on the keyboard for a long time, trying to write something.
I want to write something, but I’m pretty much speechless other than a lot of swearing. We have 9 people, 6 of whom sit on what little brains they have and speak using the waste orifice. Now having lived a few decades I know that there are actually a lot of people who do this but we have a rather large segment of our population who have seemingly no idea how a human body is supposed to work or how human brains often don’t and I’d say primarily because their brains are totally dysfunctional. And they talk out their asses. I understand that we will have differences of opinion but this is a difference of reality, it’s like they don’t live in the same world as the rest of us, that reality is a waste of time and their limited ability to observe and total lack of the ability for rational thought is a good thing. I’d be stunned except I’ve lived for what seems some days a reasonably long time and have seen that a shitty portion of the human race have shitty values with many other members of same and are at a value way below the negative value they add to the universe because they are such shitty examples of humanity. I’d be ashamed to be human myself except that won’t change anything, it won’t make them any more human, any smarter, any better able to pull their heads out of each others asses. I guess my big question is, what made them stuff their heads up each others asses in the first place, how did they ever decide that was normal?
ksmiami
@Baud: If the Republicans put people in state election boards that won’t recognize Democratic votes/wins, then the only mechanism becomes extra-judicial means. Yes, we won the last election, but it came within a whisker of defeat. If elections in this country are as existential as they seem, we are already lost.
smedley the uncertain
@schrodingers_cat: And your welcome. My parents were immigrants.
Another Scott
With the caveats that I haven’t read the decisions or much commentary on them…
The SCOTUS 6 are doing exactly what we thought they would do.
Local, State, and Federal laws need to be changed to rein in the police. It’s long-past time to do so.
The SCOTUS needs to be expanded, and/or reined in to limit Judicial Review. The Framers never intended for a handful of unelected people with lifetime appointments to write the laws of the land (and that’s what they’re doing). Fight for 15!
Yes, we need to use these decisions, and all the others, to turn out our voters in November.
Grr…,
Scott.
frosty
@ksmiami: There are no blue states. There are no red states. There are cities and rural areas. What you propose means my neighbors will evict me at gunpoint. At best.
Baud
@ksmiami:
Maybe we end up in a violent state because the GOP destroys democracy. Jumping the gun in anticipation of that future, however, is a recipe for defeat.
Ruckus
@BC in Illinois:
Good advice.
Well delivered, precise, to the point, legally sound advice.
So actually, GREAT advice.
ksmiami
@Ruckus: You can’t sustain a democracy with this many people in a completely different plane of reality. And other than forcing them to actually read and watch non-rt wing bs, there’s no way to turn them. I say let global warming do its thing, but I don’t want innocent people and animals to be victims. I really do think a national divorce is best. The country is ungovernable.
MisterDancer
Well, us Southern Negroes can go live with Da Massa again, hunh? Leave us to hoe the farms here, again, this time with climate change burning our dark skin off?
I mean, what the hell do you think the Compromise of 1877 was? It was the North deciding that protecting Southern Blacks wasn’t worth the trouble, anymore.
Just as you’re proposing here. Northerns are “powerless” to do anything about White Supremacy in the South, so let’s just ignore that whole assed region, it’s lawless and ungovernable…
…you know, unlike us “civilized” Northerns , who just apply Redlining and other more subtle ways to keep Black folx in check.
Treating the Northern US as some kind of racial utopia is BULLSHIT. “Better” is 100% relative, here!
So stop it.
ksmiami
@Baud: Waiting until they line us up against a wall isn’t smart either…
Betty Cracker
@frosty: Exactly right. I share your annoyance with these simplistic proposals. Even if the consensus for a national divorce existed (it doesn’t), there’s not a practical way to implement it without widespread and catastrophic violence. It may come to that! But that’s something we should try to prevent rather than encourage.
Joy in FL
@Edmund Dantes: Thanks for this clarity.
Years ago when I first heard about what people should say or not say to cops, I thought to myself: “I’ll never have to worry about that. I don’t do stuff that would get me in trouble….” In the past several years, I’ve become aware that I’m wise to have a clear, specific set of responses like the ones you give. And after saying those, I shut the fuck up.
Baud
@ksmiami:
So then join a militia and go buy a ton of weapons to protect yourself. They let you do that now.
Raoul Paste
@Baud: Well said
ksmiami
@MisterDancer: I’m (well moving) from the South… but as I see it, as the Ukrainians are doing to Russia, we have to make the destruction of the US democracy painful to the GOP (and the companies that enable them) or they will continue. And that will require a new paradigm of thinking like punishing the Red States for their anti-democratic laws etc. Start moving military bases etc. And we need to offer help to those who are fighting in those states and or wanting to leave.
ksmiami
@Baud: I’d rather have us keep the national government/military as – guns are weak sauce compared to the US tanks and drones.
Paul in KY
@schrodingers_cat: Am glad you are here too. You make our nation a more diverse place, and God knows we need more diversity!!
Raven
@Josie: Provisionally better. The nerve block had two intentions 1) diagnostic to see how much of a problem the femoral nerve is, 2) therapeutic to see if cortisone would help. It seems that my pain has subsided when I walk and stand but the weakness remains. That is all good because we’re looking at some spinal issues that are causing the weakness and maybe they can be addressed. Thanks for axing!
Baud
@ksmiami:
Well, there’s only one way to keep those things. Direct your anger to those who tell our potential voters that both parties are the same and that voting is useless.
PaulWartenberg
@Elizabelle:
logical reason to expand the Supreme Court, got one. There are currently 11 judicial districts for the federal court system, but only 9 justices to oversee them. As a result, we should increase the number of justices to 11, adding two more during Biden’s tenure. That will only make it 6 conservative – 5 liberal justices, but with any luck Clarence Thomas will get arrested for involvement in the Jan. 6th insurrection and we can fill that seat with Barack Obama, and flip it 6 lib – 5 con. /grin
Elizabelle
There is a pie filter for dealing with the Yosemite Sams among us, folks.
Elizabelle
@PaulWartenberg: 13 sounds like a lucky number to me.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
They didn’t step onto that slope, they jumped, with great joy and stupidity, and it will change the face of this country in only negative ways. They are slipping and sliding down that slop, laughing and enjoying the ride because they refuse to look down at the bottom, the result of them being stupid gits, the result of that jumping, the result of them thinking this is the 12th century rather than the 21st, the result of them going through life with their heads up each other’s asses. And liking it.
Almost Retired
Another sensible California gun law struck down by Trump appointees. States rights for me but not for thee.
Paul in KY
@schrodingers_cat: I wonder about that myself sometimes…
MisterDancer
And until you got called on the carpet, you didn’t mention a word of this. You’ve been so busy calling for attacks that you forgot real people live in these areas, and they read these words, too!
We (and by “we” I mean all of us, from the Government to each citizen who gives a damn) START with supporting people in these areas. We ensure, to the best of our abilities, that no on gets left behind. We make that support open, and forefront, in our work.
If you wanna do different, like you have been advocating up until this comment, that’s on you. But the fact that you’re getting all this pushback might be a hint that you’re on a ledge that you might wanna climb the hell back off of.
debbie
Thread:
Immanentize
@Ruckus: I think there are many answers to those last questions, but the most animating one seems to me to be a sense not of self worth, but of self value? I know these are almost the same concept but worth requires a complete 360 evaluation of good qualities and bad. Whereas self-valuing people only rely on their internal voices to put a sticker price on themselves. Which is always way higher than what an open market would bear.
The care-less on the Court only think of their value which includes their importance and an odd confidence that they are galaxy brains. And, their value must not be questioned! They are the hope diamond, not some cubic zirconium knock off! Unique, better than, well you and everyone else. So, every questioning of their value (as they see it) is a grievous insult which allows them to do whatever they perceive to be the slight seven times greater. They are pre-Hammurabic in their need and willingness to redress slights.
And too many self-valued are in power right now. It makes me, as one of truly mixed worth, feel rather violent myself — which is all to be expected, I guess
MisterDancer
I ain’t writing just for him. He’s not the first to say this crap, and I want my opinion on the record, today.
Edmund Dantes
@JPL: oh I already know. I’ve been talking about Reynolds v Sims being in the chopping block for a while when people only talked about the “big” cases from scotus. And how Reynolds needed to be talked in same breath as Roe, Brown, etc.
Elizabelle
@Almost Retired:
Prezactly.
And a gun’s rights, uber alles.
Baud
@Edmund Dantes:
Yeah, I wonder if they’ll go that far. Over the long term, getting rid of Reynolds would also make it easier to isolate conservatives if political winds change. Roberts probably thinks in those terms, but the other 5 may have a shorter time horizon.
hueyplong
@Immanentize: “Motherfuck him and John Wayne.”
Simple and plain.
Elizabelle
@MisterDancer: Yes. And you said it well.
FelonyGovt
Seems to me that one of the first things I learned about in law school was stare decisis. This SCOTUS is shitting on venerable precedents just because, well, they can, and because they don’t fit with their fanatical, tight-assed, bigoted world views. It’s horrifying. How can anyone possibly have any confidence in the law?
Baud
@FelonyGovt:
Fewer and fewer people do.
Edmund Dantes
@Ruckus: it’s bad advice. You have to assert your right to attorney and to leave. Otherwise cops are allowed to believe you acquiesced.
so it’s great advice if you want to sit there and be interrogated for 12, 24 hours etc but it’s horrible advice otherwise.
it’s scotus precedent.
as the example from the case, the defendant said “maybe I need a lawyer” and cops ignored that as asserting right to attorney. And scotus signed off.
so its
am I feee to go
I want a lawyer
and
shut the fuck up otherwise.
Elizabelle
@debbie: That is an excellent thread by Norm Ornstein. He’s in the “clear and present danger” mode, too. Has been, for years now.
Can anyone put up a thread reader of the Ornstein thread? It’s marvelous. I iz not on twitter.
Immanentize
@hueyplong: Thank you for your understanding.
Layer8Problem
@Elizabelle: Our work doesn’t end and I have grandkids.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I think that in this circumstance a federal court could order the licencing agency to issue a permit to someone who meets the other requirements. Maybe by an order of mandimnus with a side of furious fritatas. Perhaps a legal beagle will howl a more precise answer.
But anyway we’ll know soon enough how Hochul and company are going to deal with this ruling.
James E Powell
@schrodingers_cat:
That is the central truth of American politics. The political press works very hard all the time to make sure no one ever says it.
Edmund Dantes
@Baud: the dancing with the “state legislatures” doctrine leads me to believe Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch (and I’m not sure on Barret but probably is) are already playing footsie with gutting Reynolds if it gets them what they want for minority rule.
Roberts wants it too but would like to pull a gut the law but leave the shell of course.
Josie
@Raven: You’re welcome. Glad to know that you are getting some good news at long last. I understand how frustrating long term debility can be, especially for a person who is used to being very active.
Rob
What a wonderful country I live in
Baud
The one gun control the GOP supports is felon disenfranchisement because the justice system works against minorities and the GOP doesn’t want them to have guns. It’ll be interesting to see what legal hoops the GOP 6 on the court go through to keep those laws in place.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
We live in “interesting times” for sure. Ugh
Immanentize
@Baud: This will also be the effect of including more juvenile records in background checks. Juvenile court is even more racially tilted than adult convictions. Fewer black people will be allowed to have guns, but probably no fewer whites.
E.
People keep saying we are headed for civil war but I do not understand how you have a war if only one side is armed. I’m too frail and non-violent to fight in one certainly.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Raven:
Glad to see some good news for you finally on that front
E.
@FelonyGovt: Maybe we can trick them into overruling Marbury v Madison and removing all their authority.
James E Powell
@ksmiami:
Attendez, Enjolras, we aren’t ready for the barricades just yet. First task is to win the elections. As many as we can by as much as we can. That’s not totally within our control, but it is something we know how to do & have the means of doing.
Ruckus
@ksmiami:
“You can’t sustain a democracy with this many people in a completely different plane of reality.”
Absolutely true.
So how do you change the minds of people that believe they want to go back to a completely different time because they think they are going to be treated better, when they actually weren’t? The difference was they had someone to treat worse, rather than they got treated better. And how do you go back in time, a very fast reverse gear? Will that be out any day now, from their great and thoughtful minds?
The world moves forward but humans often don’t. We have the same war over and over and over and… because people try to hold on to what they know, what they believe, even if all the evidence is that they are wrong. We are at a pivot point in history. There are billions of people living now and taking up space, using up resources, and still hurting others because they won’t change, when change is the only way they can stay alive. We have to change the story, change the process, change the rules and that goes against short term history, which is what most people think is real because that’s all they see. They like the world they know or at least think they know. A world of religion, of hearty souls, of conserving the old ways, but our world is no longer that world, there are too many of us, there have been too many wars, too much refusal to learn anything new, too much hate for hate’s sake, too much refusal to see the actual world around them. Russia is a prime example of that, vlad thinks that one man can decide that he owns other humans, owns all the land, is the ruler king, that he is that man. That way only causes the death and destruction that it has always caused but now it is far, far more destructive because there are more of us and because we have invented better weapons. We have to find a better way than to allow the vlad’s of the world (here we call them the republican party) to decide that everyone they don’t like or agree with must die or at least suffer – because.
Josie
@MisterDancer: Thank you.
JPL
@Immanentize: Justice officials searched Jeffrey Clarks’ home.
That’s good news right!
ksmiami
@Ruckus:Maybe a push to global democracy – less nationalism and more pressure to be aligned with humanistic goals. Unfortunately, from my eye, the future by design will be less populated. How we get there is the scary part.
Baud
@Immanentize:
Real Americans would much rather be killed by a white guy with a gun than a black guy with a gun.
@JPL:
Betty
@Benw: In front of Supreme Court houses. The guy accused of attempted murder walked by, his unloaded gun in a suitcase, and he turned himself in.
TheTruffle
@Ruckus: I’ve tried to educate people and change their minds. They would post some silliness from Breitbart or wherever and I’d politely include a link saying it wasn’t true. Politifact, for example.
Someone posted that Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci were college roommates. I posted a link explaining that wasn’t true. These things go in one ear and out the other.
So I can understand why some people are running out of patience.
I keep hearing these loonies are a minority. I have yet to see proof of it.
Raven
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): yea, I realized the question may have been about Covid!
Citizen Alan
@ksmiami:
Baud
@TheTruffle:
What kind of proof are you looking for?
Calouste
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Or follow the Mexico scheme:
You can apply for a license, and the state will issue one, but you have to apply in person at an office that is only open between 8:17 and 8:42 on even numbered Mondays in months that have a Friday the 13th. And you have to bring three forms of identification, because New York doesn’t want to hand out guns to “illegal immigrants” like the GOP does.
(We all know that the GOP doesn’t do consistency, but the whole ‘all “illegal immigrants” (i.e. brown people) are criminals’, but let’s oppose all checks to prevent these “criminals” to get their hands on guns, is a pretty glaring one even by their standards).
ian
@ksmiami:
the only mechanism you see. There exist others, should you use your imagination to think of them rather than bloodthirsty civil war fantasies.
A Good Woman
@Immanentize:
On that 2nd point, Barrett and the 14th amendment. Are you inferring that she considers that amendment as somehow illicit. My vocabulary left me when I read that comment. If she totally discounts that amendment doesn’t that pull the rug out of norms that rely on it?
Immanentize
@JPL: very good news he is a bad man.
When you say Justice Officials, I read “FBI”
Elizabelle
Me likey: from the NY Times, breaking news, WRT J6 hearings:
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: If it comes to that, it’ll be easy to get guns. Masters of War don’t care who they sell to.
Baud
@Immanentize:
@Elizabelle:
New thread up.
Immanentize
@A Good Woman: The 14th is not quite “invalid” but when discerning constitutional original intent, the civil war and it’s aftermath are irrelevant (she says quite plainly)
Baud
@Immanentize:
If she were consistent, she would have to overturn a lot of pro corporate precedent from the post civil war era.
Jinchi
I’m getting ever more disgusted at the right wing, whose only reaction to mass slaughter has gone from “do nothing at all” to “make guns even easier for deranged people to carry”.
Republicans really are a death cult.
Omnes Omnibus
@TheTruffle: The 2020 election.
Jesse
@schrodingers_cat: as someone who lives abroad — strictly for fanily reasons — I can’t get on board with the “leave the US” train. The grass is NOT greener. There’s nonsense in Europe deep & wide which you’d never tolerate as an American. (Unless you adopt double standards. Like, “sure, their concept of separation of church & state is clearly bad. But hey, good beer!”)
Jinchi
@Calouste:
Sounds like the Republicans preferred policy on voting, so I’m sure they’ll be fine with it.
Jinchi
Agreed. There’s no where to run to. We have to solve these problems where we live.
randy khan
It’s remarkable how many white people don’t understand this. I had a conversation with someone within the last week where he asked me, more or less, what was wrong with the statement that it’s not a problem for police to search your phone or social media, or whatever if you haven’t done anything wrong.
Baud
@Jinchi:
There’s no alternative to carrying the one ring to Mt. Doom to destroy it.
Martin
Take the lesson from the Uvalde PD: even the cops won’t talk to the cops.
dave319
@Elizabelle: Listening, Uncle Joe? If you got a plan for dealing with all this shit, now would be a real good time to let us have a look at it.
Ruckus
@ksmiami:
I’m going to call bullshit on you. We outnumber them, we out think them. This is the time to change. Why do you think conservatives want to keep guns? The answer is it’s the only possible way they might stay in any level of power. Their ideals are old and shitty. They do not reflect the majority of the country. Look at the red states and compare them to the blue states. The bluest state, CA, has the largest population, has a GDP bigger than most nations, better schools than most, and life is better. The other blue states are in far better shape than the red states as well. The old way, the conservative way, is bullshit and it doesn’t work in a modern world. The world changes, always. Conservatives with money do not want change. At least they say they don’t but take away all their conveniences of modern life and they would scream holly hell. They want all the stuff but they also want power to keep others from getting that stuff so that they are better. They don’t measure progress using freedom or liberty, to them freedom is about money. If you have some you are free. If you don’t you are a schlub. Equality is not a word in their world, or at least if it is it’s a swear word. They don’t want equality of any kind because that makes them like everyone else and they have to be better in some way. If everyone has the same level of freedom and it isn’t measured in some bullshit way, how do they get ahead? The simple answer is they don’t. And they can’t stand that. Their problem is that if the world was actually liberal, they’d be like everyone else, nothing special at all. President Obama showed that their concept of being better is bullshit. Racism is bullshit. We all know it, conservatives enjoy it. Wealth does not make you a better person, in fact it seems it makes you far worse. And equality under the law makes them the same as everyone else, nothing special, nothing better, makes them just like everyone else. Conservatives fucking hate equality because it makes them no better than the next person. And they enjoy being worse.
JPL
@Immanentize: Does she think that women should have to right to vote?
zhena gogolia
@MisterDancer: thank you
Ruckus
@Immanentize:
It does make one want to be violent. But that is a human reaction that the modern world is at least attempting to change. Conservatives don’t actually want that change because if you take that away, they’ve got nothing, zip, nada, crapola, shit, thin air. The leading conservatives are chickenshits but they have an army of armed idiots ready to spring into action at a president’s request, to protect their stupidity. We have a far better way to move forward, it’s called equality. But conservatives are not going to give up the only thing they’ve got, bullshit, easily. Their way is the old way, the gen pop doing the fighting and the upper crust stealing everything they can carry. (you did see the recordings of who carried what out of the WH when they left didn’t you?)
schrodingers_cat
@Jesse: Indeed. As if a country without any flaw exists, As if moving to another country is easy.
Ruckus
@Edmund Dantes:
OK, I skipped a step or two, or the word otherwise.
I’ll do better.
I will add the heat and burn those three short sentences into my feeble old addled brain.
Cameron
@Ruckus: Just remember – #1 and 2 you say to the police, not #3.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
The only country with out human flaws is one without humans.
I’ve never seen one of those and I’d bet living there would be rather difficult. Even Antartica has people living there.
Ruckus
@Cameron:
Hey, I admitted I can be dense, but I’m not that dense. I think.
different-church-lady
@trollhattan: Whenever I think of e-cigarettes, I am reminded of my belief that no matter how bad things get, somewhere someone is working diligently on a way to make them even worse.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
There is always someone trying to make a buck in the worst way possible. Always.
Ksmiami
@Ruckus: the entire Conservative platform is hollow and hopeless- and that is why we need to alter the paradigm- work with businesses and countries that align with enlightened liberal values. Change the terms of the fight.
Edmund Dantes
@Martin: they have it explicitly written in their union contracts how all investigations of an officer is supposed to go, lawyers present, time limits, cooling off periods, etc.
Paul in KY
@Baud: That was the only way. If only Elrond had pushed Isildur in when he was admiring it, so much suffering would have been avoided…
Edmund Dantes
@Cameron: I mean you can say the third, but there will be consequences.
hell just saying the first two will often piss cops off. They hate running into people that know their rights. Watch enough first amendment audits (some whackos for sure) and you’ll see cops hate anything that challenges them.
another thing to recognize is all the talk and banter cops due. It’s all psychological manipulation. You see the same stuff with salesmen etc.
gwt people comfortable (hey we’re just having a conversation, just being polite) get people saying “yes” (get you used to answering them so you’ll answer more) etc.
There’s a lot of science behind what the cops are doing. Just like with the informercial people.
ksmiami
test
MisterForkbeard
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I did clarify that if they keep it up, someone might take a shot at them.
But consequences anywhere near what they force everyone else to go through? No.
Lepercorn
@Kofuu: Yeah he’s a a law professor at Reagent University. That’s Pat Robertsons university. And even he says don’t ever talk to the police.
TheTruffle
@Baud: Well, voting patterns for one. Media responses for another. I always wondered why Senate races for Dems didn’t go better. Maybe it was that “defund the police” bullshit.
I do remember reading a Republican flipped a Dem district in an election recently with low turnout—but a Dem flipped a GOP seat earlier.
I know bellyaching about national divorce is dumb, but I think we are headed there anyway. When a state’s GOP puts secession in their platform, then you know unity’s out the window.
TheTruffle
@Baud: Well, voting patterns for one. Media responses for another. I always wondered why Senate races for Dems didn’t go better. Maybe it was that “defund the police” bullshit.
I do remember reading a Republican flipped a Dem district in an election recently with low turnout—but a Dem flipped a GOP seat earlier.
I know bellyaching about national divorce is dumb, but I think we are headed there anyway. When a state’s GOP puts secession in their platform, then you know unity’s out the window.