The Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade, turning the clock back generations on reproductive freedom in the United Stateshttps://t.co/NXO8jbmEva
— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) June 24, 2022
I got nothing. Fight, vote, revolt
ETA: Note, I pulled my last post and will repost it tomorrow morning. I think it’s important and don’t want it to get lost, but I think Roe v. Wade will dominate today.
WV Blondie
The rightwing Supreme Court may think it’s got the American public in a headlock. Those “justices” (since there’s nothing resembling justice associated with them) are going to find out otherwise. Just told a friend we need a protest that makes the 1/21/17 Women’s March in DC look positively PUNY.
Eolirin
I hope enough of us can sustain our rage through November to make enough of a difference.
TaMara
I pulled my last post and will repost it tomorrow morning. I think it’s important and don’t want it to get lost, but I think Roe v. Wade will dominate today.
JPL
Wait until they gut the EPA.
Alison Rose
Time to stop talking about Roberts as being less of a reactionary asshole than the others.
Also, time to donate to abortion funds.
RedDirtGirl
I am absolutely sick. Thinking about my friends of childbearing age. Christ. NOthing to do with saving children. All about controlling wimmin-folk.
debbie
Fuckers.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@JPL: I can’t worry about other decisions right now. This one wipes me out, even though I expected it
The Truffle
@WV Blondie: Please tell me this is a Pyrrhic victory for them. Because otherwise? I think this country is headed for a national divorce.
Betty Cracker
May those motherfuckers reap the whirlwind.
The Thin Black Duke
Elections have consequences.
The Moar You Know
Of course they did. They’ve been working my entire lifetime to do it. They kept their eyes on the prize and showed up and voted every single election for anyone who would move the window in their direction, no matter how small.
If we want to ever get it back we will have to do the same. Fifty years of work. Vote every election
I won’t live to see the end but hope to at least see the beginning.
Paul W.
This is the glib person inside me talking… but I feel like the brazenness is an ally – in effect Roe was already gone as soon as the TX law was allowed to stand, and instead of a politically defensible version where the media will give credence to Republicans saying they are upholding a figleaf of Roe it is ALL GONE IN ONE EPIC MOMENT.
We lost the battle for the courts, we didn’t turn out the votes and people themselves sat back and accused us of being Chicken Littles, and now here we are. That’s all in the past, what comes next determines whether we can exert the power we hold (to change number of justices, to rule things non-justiciable, to add DC as a state, etc.) to nullify this horseshit. I’m also all for the SC rulings just being seen as moot and ignored by blue states (since red states already do this for laws they don’t like) until such time as sanity returns to the court.
But that’s just me, I’m out of fucks to give.
Suzanne
Time to Underground Railroad this shit.
Is there any sort of organization that assists women in relocating from shitty red states to blue states? That’s really what I want to do. Get women out of these places.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@JPL: Though, of course, you’re right
AliceBlue
I’m going to be69 next month. Obviously I will never need to have an abortion, but god my tears wwon’t stop.
Leto
@Eolirin: I hope a majority of us can sustain this rage for generations. Conservatives did, we have to do the same.
Kay
Far Right cultural views on the role of women in the US will follow – workplace, educational, financial autonomy and agency, etc.
Once you announce women don’t have agency and autonomy over their own bodies they are immediately second class citizens.
Ohio Mom
Even though I knew this was coming, I am surprised at how kicked in the gut I feel.
I am certain there will be a backlash but at 67, will I live to see it? I hope so because the sooner the better.
Asshole Republicans.
JPL
They really are going after gays.
Dorothy already saw the Thomas opinion
SiubhanDuinne
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Same. Thought I was intellectually and emotionally prepared for this long-expected news, but the reality of it is a gut-punch.
Cry today, fight tomorrow.
Kay
@AliceBlue:
Because you recognize it was never about abortion. It was about controlling women and assigning them a lesser legal status, one that aligns with far Right fundamentalist views of womens roles.
They don’t call it a “culture war” for nothing. They intend to impose the culture that undergirds and informs the laws.
Professor Bigfoot
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Eventually they’ll get to Brown, too.
TaMara
@SiubhanDuinne: Same
debbie
@Suzanne:
This was shared on the morning thread.
Ol_Froth
@Dorothy A. Winsor: And what makes Thomas think Loving isn’t on their wish list as well?
Kristine Pennington
God help this country
debbie
I hope one of the dissenting opinions pointed out how these assholes broke their promises to respect precedent.
cope
I have lived from pre-Roe times until the new post-Roe times. I surely won’t live long enough for another swing of the pendulum.
I believe birth control is in the on-deck circle.
ETA: Did Susan Collins issue a comment about this yet?
Belafon
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Notice he didn’t mention overturning Loving. Wonder why?
Ksmiami
Shut the Court down- shut America- break up with the cousin-fuckers and line the new borders w nukes
debbie
Does anyone know how close the final opinion is to that leaked draft?
ian
@Paul W.:
The Roberts strategy vs the Alito strategy. Unfortunately, 5 of the 6 RW justices straight up do not care about subtlety, public opinion, or precedent.
If there are still any Dems left that don’t think it is time to expand the court, hopefully this will drop the blinders from their eyes.
rikyrah
These young women better understand what just happened.
Matt McIrvin
The one right we have left is to have guns. The people who gave it to us go on and on about how guns guarantee the right to revolution in the event of tyranny.
Do they think there will be any consequences? Will there be?
pat
And yet we can all carry guns in public for “personal protection.” Do they think this is the wild wild west?
I feel sick.
Suzanne
@Ksmiami: I’m with you. I don’t think America is worth saving at this point. I don’t really need to engage in a common project with these people.
And before others exhort me to remember Dems in red states, I will point out that your legal status didn’t change to vessel today.
AliceBlue
@Kay: Yes.
JPL
@Belafon: CNN said that was decided the same way, so it’s on the block. Probably up to the states.
Sure Lurkalot
Next up in the red state laboratories of fascism, birth control bans and personhood statutes. Guns and zygotes will have virtually unbridled rights. Women, less, less and less.
Omnes Omnibus
Practical advice: Any woman who has a period tracking app on her phone should delete it.
schrodingers_cat
@ian: You can’t expand the court when you have only 50 senators.
Bupalos
@Kay: it’s about a lot of things, but more than anything a groping backwards towards an imaginary past that never existed and can never exist.
I think the “controlling women” is accurate in a lot of cases but leaves out a huge part of the picture here.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: don’t obey in advance.
MisterDancer
@Ksmiami: I’m going to point out again that your rhetoric is ugly and dismissive of people. Many People of Color have been living in a post-Roe world for years, now — and people like you just noticed, so of course your response is to call for guns and arms.
And you’re going to keep doing it, because you’re mining our pain for attention, not supporting people in a moment of real pain.
Fuck off.
The Thin Black Duke
The midterms will be the litmus test.
TerryTime
@Leto: Bush v Gore December 12, 2000.
I don’t understand why more people haven’t been enraged since then.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Yep. Republicans intend to remake the US into a right-wing Christian state that subjugates women and queer people. If not stopped, they’ll co-opt agencies and businesses and impose single-party rule while maintaining a polite fiction that democracy still exists, as Orban has done in Hungary. It’s already happening in Florida.
JPL
The house should take a position and pass a vote to protect birth control.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: I have no idea what “America is not worth saving” is really supposed to mean. It sounds profoundly confused. And maybe immoral?
Eljai
I was 13 when Roe was decided. I weep for my niece and other young women and I weep for myself because the Court decided we’re just not capable of making our own decisions anymore. This decision drips with barely concealed hatred for us.
Immanentize
I’ve been telling my students the following for three years now — but they all thought I was a hysterical lefty hair-on-fire hyperbolic crazy pants:
<blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>Clarence Thomas, writing separate in the abortion ruling, says the Supreme Court should now "reconsider" its decisions that found a right to contraception, sex between consenting adult men, and same-sex marriage — and "correct the error" it made in those cases. <a href=”https://t.co/8SnyCil7v8″>pic.twitter.com/8SnyCil7v8</a></p>— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) <a href=”https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1540341275219591168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw”>June 24, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>
Not that they were entirely wrong.
JML
Six years ago, a lot of us warned that this was coming and were ignored. This is not how I wanted to be proven right.
It’s a brutal decision with huge impacts. But there is a solution: vote the rascals out. Shove them out of power, bury McConnell and his legion of traitors under the Capitol by consigning them to an ineffectual minority forever.
Don’t give up, get loud. Stand up and fight. Vote vote vote. There are more of us than there are of them, but we need to show up in every election, not just occasionally, or when we really love the candidate.
Ksmiami
@MisterDancer: I donate to funds in Texas to help less fortunate women travel for abortion- but if u think America can make any progress with the theocratic fascist Court empowered, there’s a bridge in Arizona I have to sell…
Immanentize
@ian: Are you one of those people in 2016 who wanted to “heighten the contradictions?”
Elizabelle
Damn. I was brewing coffee and hadn’t heard. The Supreme Court is the creature that caught the car, that is about back over it hard.
Expand the Supreme Court. This one, as constituted, is illegitimate. And we need more justices for the workload.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: The United States as a political entity is, in my view, not worth saving. I’m sure you have noticed that Christian fascists have taken over the government — totally in accordance with the law —and the best advice we can come up with is to vote. Have you noticed that our votes count less than that of the Christian fascists? This is a political system not worth fighting for.
Ksmiami
@MisterDancer: ps- this ruling and this court represents an existential threat to me and my daughters and is worth fighting by every means we have…
mali muso
I am leaving for Portugal tomorrow on an initial scouting trip to see if we can move our family there. This news just reinforces for me that I’m doing the right thing. I won’t stop fighting and voting, but I can’t see a future for my 5 year old daughter in this country.
arrieve
@Ohio Mom:
That is exactly what I was about to write. I knew it was coming, and yet I just feel stunned and sick, physically sick.
We need to hit the streets.
Mike in NC
Just a little bit more of the constant state of chaos that serial rapist Donald Trump promised us. Next week the Extreme Court will outlaw same-sex and interracial marriages. Whee!
Matt McIrvin
@JML:
Can’t vote for Supreme Court justices. Increasingly, can’t vote for anyone else either. We probably already elected our last democratically elected President.
WV Blondie
@The Truffle: I do think it’s a Pyrrhic victory – even “red state” residents were in favor of upholding Roe. For now, I’m going to concentrate on Congress. After all, the Rethugs have already shown they’re cowards; they give in to bullying. That’s why I think 10,000,000 women protesting in DC would concentrate their thinking wonderfully … And I’m going to be working on denying the Rs control of either chamber, too!
Quiltingfool
@rikyrah: I don’t think the young women get it – they have had the benefits of the hard work that came before them. They think those rights have always been around.
Now they will learn the hard way what happens when a right is taken away, and it won’t be pretty. And, as Kay has rightly reminded us, this is more than loss of body autonomy – this will go much, much further in the loss of human rights for women.
May the vileness of that decision come back on those 6 assholes threefold.
David Collier-Brown
Liberal Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tweeted: “We’ll never back down from protecting and promoting women’s rights in Canada and around the world.”
Let’s do the underground railroad again. North Buxton, anyone?
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: completely- an ungovernable and dehumanized nation that cares more for an ancient document than its own citizens- fuck this shit
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
Thank you for recognizing reality.
TS
And they call out the Taliban for their treatment of women.
The US media and “but her emails” did this to the women of their country – in particular the New York Times should be hounded out of existence.
debbie
NPR’s Nina Tottenberg is surprised at how much of Alito’s incendiary wording was kept for the final opinion. This is war.
Josie
@WV Blondie: Yes, concentrate on Congress, but also on state legislatures.
daveNYC
@schrodingers_cat: You can, just not with these 50 Senators.
Immanentize
@Suzanne: I am still deep in my efforts to do good — for individuals and for broad communities. But I totally take your point, yet I am not yet ready to abandon the project. But like Felix O. Said a day or two ago, many Jews waited too long to leave in the ’30s. Thinking about one’s future plans is not a bad thing.
banditqueen
The USSC now legislates what our common “morals” are and they are out-loud proud of this.
Chief Oshkosh
@Ol_Froth: What the fuck does he care? None of this shit ever affects them. He’ll just pull out a sham 23andMe report showing that he’s 50.01% white and go on down the road.
Immanentize
@daveNYC: this is true beyond peradventure.
JPL
I imagine that vasectomies will be allowed but not so sure about tubal ligation.
MinuteMan
The Republicans have amply demonstrated that our government cannot work correctly when officials operate in bad faith. They’ve demonstrated it in the executive branch (both Trump and W administrations), the Congress (especially the Senate) and the judiciary. Until more people start treating the GOP and its politicians, at all levels of government, as the pariahs they deserve to be, things are going to continue to get worse.
Eljai
@mali muso: I hope we can turn this around & I’ll never stop fighting. But, If I had a young daughter right now, I would join you. I hope your trip goes smoothly.
Avalune
Honestly – I feel like the “leak” was intentional. Like hey red states – get your new laws written up and ready to go!
Mike in NC
These far right-wing justices had better start wearing body armor under their robes. I hope they need to pay for 24/7 private security just like Dr. Fauci had to get for his family.
oldgold
Thomas in concurring opinion claims Court has duty to revisit right to contraception and same sex marriages.
rikyrah
How does the final text compares to the draft opinion?
MisterDancer
I found this from Twitter of use:
None of us, are alone. Even the assholes celebrating now, will come to rue this.
TerryTime
@JPL: The Catholic church hates vasectomies too.
Elizabelle
@debbie: This is war. Indeed.
And use this in the midterms. Between Roe, guns, and J6, I hope we have gale force winds behind us.
jnfr
Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
Clarence Thomas writes, in a concurring opinion, that the Supreme Court should reconsider Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell — the rulings that now protect contraception, same-sex relationships, and same-sex marriage.
8:20 AM · Jun 24, 2022·Twitter Web App
Suzanne
@Immanentize: To me, the important thing to remember is that the US, as a political thing, isn’t worth anything in and of itself, It’s only worth protecting if it works. And, I venture to say, it does not work. It binds me without protecting me. And we often operate within its rules and those rules are designed for our failure. So.
Immanentize
@Chief Oshkosh: snerk — he still wouldn’t pass the one drop test.
A great Jurist, Leon Higginbotham, wrote an essay about Thomas when he went to the Court. Part of it included (from memory):
One of the problems with J. Thomas is that he pictures himself sitting with Jefferson and Madison on the porch arguing about the new constitution rather than serving them as a house slave.
jnfr
@JPL:
That’s up next week.
I posted a list of some resources: https://fierce.jnfr.com/?p=4597 Feel free to plunder.
Cacti
For all of the leftier than thou types who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Al Gore or Hillary Clinton because they were “no different than Republicans”.
This is your legacy.
schrodingers_cat
@daveNYC: Really? FDR had huge majorities and he couldn’t do it.
bluefoot
@Suzanne:
People of color have been dealing with this shit our whole lives for GENERATIONS in this country and we are still working at making it better. We’ve succeeded over time because we’ve been persistent and put our actual lives on the line. Even when there have been huge setbacks like today.
And you’re just giving up?
Elizabelle
@mali muso: I will come see you! And no reason you can’t keep your US citizenship, and vote in whatever federal elections you are allowed to, as a citizen living abroad.
We can fight them here, with our work and protests and votes. We can fight them from over there. With our votes.
TS
@JPL:
A woman can’t even have a miscarriage in some states – why on earth do you think a tubal litigation will be legal – the contraceptive pill is about to be gone – they really want them barefoot and pregnant & surrounded by armed men.
WV Blondie
@Josie: Yes. But only Congress can pass a law that confers rights to ALL Americans, not just those fortunate enough to live in a blue state.
Alison Rose
Immanentize
@JPL: Tubal ligation or hysterectomies will be required of poor and black women as part of felony punishment. Just like in the oldy times.
slybrarian
@Suzanne:
I’m glad to see that the usual doomer crowd is here to let us know that nothing can be fixed, there’s no point in voting, and that the only answer is for ‘blue’ state ‘leftists’ to say “fuck you I got mine” to everyone who’s not a straight white man in a ‘red’ state.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Today is a good day to donate to Democratic candidates and organizing. We won’t go down without a fight.
Elizabelle
@jnfr: But not Loving v Virginia? How, strange.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
I’ll say what I said on Twitter: I hope that those six monsters get to feel every iota of all the pain and misery they’re about to inflict on millions of people for generations to come, all the agony, all the trauma.
And I hope that agony consumes them from this day forward until the End of Days.
As for the rest:
The GOP needs to die.
Immanentize
@mali muso: My close friends are in Porto doing exactly the same thing for me. I will share what I discover?
rikyrah
@oldgold:
UH HUH
UH HUH
TOLD YOU
Trine
@debbie: thank you! I was thinking the same.
I’m angry (angrier; we’ve seen the writing on the wall for years). In the immortal words of Tupac: I ain’t a killa, but don’t push me.
My g.g.gm fought for my vote, Mama fought for my rights, I’m fighting for my daughter’s (and you & yours) right for…selfhood.
I’ve got my ancestors behind me and y’all beside me. And I’ve been pushed too far. I’m ready to make noise, subvert the system, and transgress in every way possible.
Elizabelle
@TS: Don’t forget NPR. Somehow, they could never find an enthusiastic Hillary Clinton supporter in 2016.
Fuck them all. Some of them might realize they have their fingerprints on this outcome. But not enough. Introspection does not run deep in some news organizations.
CaseyL
SCOTUS reasoning is that any right which depends on the 14th Amendment is unsound.
That’s about as radical as you can get.
Not “merely” for all the famous rights that depend on it (abortion, SSM, contraception).
But because SCOTUS is now saying it can ignore Constitutional Amendments if it wants to; it can say they “don’t apply” because they’re “new.”
The 19th Amendment, recognizing women’s right to vote, is a “new” amendment.
Cacti
Big shout out to Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon for making today possible.
rikyrah
@jnfr:
UH HUH
We have been saying this…like..forever.
Another Scott
@ian: It looks like it was 5 agreeing with Alito and Roberts agreeing with the result but not the whole opinion. So he can still claim that he’s “moderate” and “respects stare decisis” and “balls and strikes” and all the rest of the disingenuous mouth noises that make the MSM swoon. Thomas has an opinion, Kavanaugh has an opinion; Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor have a joint dissent (and an appendix).
From the end of the dissent:
Notice the missing [respectfully]. It’s a deserved slap at the RWNJs on the majority.
213 page .PDF of decisions and dissent.
We have to vote the monsters out to make things better. Let’s get the job started and Fight for 15!!
Grrr…,
Scott.
Trine
@JPL: please elaborate.
Alison Rose
@Cacti: And every Bernie supporter.
Suzanne
@bluefoot: We’re falling back over time.
I don’t think that fighting within these confines is going to be successful, ever, and thus is not worth the effort.
Bupalos
@The Moar You Know: we could get this done in 10 years. The question is whether our side has even that kind of long term committment.
Half the people on here are like “just nuke America and get it over with!!”
Every step in the wrong direction has more and more people surrendering.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: There are really just some minor changes until the end in which Alito, writing, makes it abundantly clear that Roe is unique and that this will impact no other rights. The speculation is that the paragraph was a requirement by another Justice for their vote. Probably Kav.
Of course Thomas takes it all back in his concurrence.
Ksmiami
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: we need to bring the pain to the right…
Elizabelle
Could anyone put up Norm Ornstein’s tweets, in a thread reader? He had a particularly good thread, after yesterday’s guns abomination ruling. Outright called the Court illegitimate.
He actually went after John Roberts, for lying during his confirmation hearings with his “balls and strikes” response.
More of that. The conservatives all lied about how they would rule. And they were put on the Court by other conservatives to achieve just these society-destroying decisions.
Leto
Waiting for red states to essentially ban travel for women, out of state, unless they show a negative pregnancy test. If they’re pregnant, they have to have approval from their husband or pastor to travel. We live in insane times so this isn’t totally out of bounds.
Nancy Pelosi calling out the shitheel justices for saying how dare they come before the Senate and say they believe in stari decisis.
banditqueen
@Matt McIrvin: ‘In USA ungovernable tribal regions govern you”
The Thin Black Duke
@Suzanne: What else are we going to do?
jnfr
I’ve always known that they’d just as soon see people like me, like us — feminist, queer, artists — they’d rather see us dead than let us live freely.
Immanentize
@Suzanne: But that is today. We are at a great nadir, and I feel like what is possible is still worth fighting for.
Alison Rose
And listen–if you or someone you know in a red state has the ability and the desire to move, I know California is expensive (believe me, I know), but if you can make it here, please do. Our government is doing the exact opposite of SCOTUS/red state governments. They’ve expanded access and coverage, and we’ve got a state Constitutional amendment in the works to enshrine the right to abortion. I’m not saying this state is perfect, but on this issue, it’s lightyears better. Plus we have basically every kind of weather, scenery, activity, cuisine, etc, you could ever want.
JPL
@Trine: Thomas already said that they should overturn Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell.
jnfr
@Elizabelle:
Give them time. I’m sure they’ll get there.
Immanentize
@slybrarian: Funny, I am not seeing that at all. What I see is deep, honest fear and grief speaking. Be kind today, K?
dnfree
I am no doubt one of many who had an unplanned pregnancy, and was in a position to keep the baby. But it was MY DECISION. This is devastating.
JPL
In some states abortion is now illegal. Planned Parenthood already stopped in Arkansas.
Ksmiami
@Another Scott: Sorry – voting isn’t enough when 50 percent of a nation’s people are at risk.
dnfree
@slybrarian: not a single person here has said that. I think what you perceive as doomsaying is actually grief.
mali muso
@Eljai:
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, not giving up on voting, donating and agitating, but between the collapse of bodily autonomy rights for women, schools awash in gun violence, and never knowing if my black husband and daughter could end up at the wrong end of a police encounter…I can’t countenance staying if there are other avenues.
Felanius Kootea
I think that this will break the Supreme Court in ways conservatives can’t anticipate.
Ruling that the state she lives in should determine a woman’s right to bodily autonomy but the same state has no right to protect her from harm from guns is the type of inconsistency that drops scales from laypeople’s eyes.
The backlash to this will be off the charts and I am here for it.
We have to support nonprofits like the one providing free flights for women out of states that ban abortion and pressure congress to pass the equal rights amendment once we have a majority of Democrats in the House and Senate (minus Manchin and Sinema).
Suzanne
@The Thin Black Duke: Fight a war? Break up the country? Flee to better places? Those are also things that have happened before. In recent history, too.
JPL
New York Times Pitchbot
@DougJBalloo
Bracing for protests, Maine considers statewide ban on sidewalk chalk.
Soprano2
@Kay: They want us to go back to the 1950’s, that’s the last time conservatives felt “comfortable” with the way the world is. It’s all about them thinking they know better. And yes, it’s all about controlling women’s sex lives and making them second class citizens, it’s what they want.
Immanentize
@Elizabelle: Lobing is based on two constitutional principles — Substantive Due Process (which is what gives us the right to privacy) AND the equal protection clause. I assume what Thomas is saying is that he would overturn Loving on the first concept, but not the second. This was always a fear re: Roe.
Elizabelle
@Felanius Kootea: I agree with Felanius.
Dog that caught the car: look out.
dww44
@Belafon: First thing that crossed my mind. Hey, it would only be fair. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
MisterDancer
@Elizabelle: I literally cannot find it. He’s got so many tweets/retweets it’s nearly impossible to find that thread; the closest I could see is https://twitter.com/NormOrnstein/status/1539990695796260865
If you have a link to it, I have a Thread Reader account.
Elizabelle
@Immanentize: Thank you.
Immanentize
@CaseyL: That is not what the Court said. Sorry. That hyperbole is counter productive because it aims far too broadly when considering a response.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
How do you save the people without saving the political system? 81 million of us voted for Biden. We can’t all emigrate, and anyone who wants a civil war is a fucking idiot because they’re horrible.
We’re stuck with the cruddy system we’ve got. We’ve got to find a way to beat these fuckers politically, even with the handicaps this system puts on us, before it’s too late.
mali muso
@Immanentize: Yes please! Not sure how to connect via email, but would love to do so. I’ll be in Porto for a few days next week.
The Moar You Know
@slybrarian: you sound exactly like the losers in my hometown forty years ago who used to give the smart kids shit for leaving for college.
We have the right to leave if we can do so. And quite a few of us will.
JPL
McConnell already said that he would like a national abortion ban. We have to keep the House and Senate.
Another Scott
There’s a “Major Severity” (traffic impact) demonstration going on on East Capitol Street.
The SCOTUS is at First and East Capitol Street, NE.
https://wtop.com/traffic/
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@MisterDancer: Thank you! Have at it. I will feed you any subsequent tweets from Norm Ornstein I see. He’s great.
Begins — and this was yesterday, about the guns case:
https://twitter.com/NormOrnstein/status/1539990695796260865?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Almost Retired
Since the founding fathers didn’t address the issue of abortion, we can’t use the Constitution to establish a right to privacy. But, evidently, the founding fathers totally anticipated that muskets would eventually give way to assault rifles, so these weapons are Constitutionally protected. I hate these people.
MisterDancer
For fuck’s sake, this!
Our money and time can help actual people thru this! I know it’s small, but it matters, y’all. It matters o much that we take this pain and agony and help the people who don’t even have a place like Balloon Juice to come to to vent.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: Honestly, I think the country would be more inclined toward a velvet divorce than many think. Americans hate each other, if you haven’t noticed.
Elizabelle
@mali muso: Spain and Portugal are lovely and life-affirming in ways that many states in the US are not. It’s not just fleeing evil and stupidity; it is moving to a country that actually values human beings, women among them.
Catalonia is my heart.
MisterDancer
@Elizabelle: Actually, that thread already has a Reader; I see it in a reply: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1539990695796260865.html
senyordave
@Ol_Froth: And what makes Thomas think Loving isn’t on their wish list as well?
Thomas would be fine with overturning Loving as long as he’s grandfathered in.
Alison Rose
@slybrarian: If that’s what you took from those comments, I think you need to read them again.
rikyrah
@debbie:
Why is she surprised?
Sure Lurkalot
Deleted…link wouldn’t copy as link.
Elizabelle
@MisterDancer: Wonderful. Thank you.
People: check it out. Ornstein has been out of fucks to give for a long, long time now. He’s been fighting against “both siderism” for years.
CaseyL
@Immanentize: From Alito’s majority opinion:
I am not exaggerating. I am not being hyperbolic.
Alison Rose
@rikyrah: These fuckers are always surprised. They suck at their jobs.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: Problem being, it’s not just states. It is backwards rural vs. urban and suburban areas.
eachother
Sad day.
Liberty my ass.
lowtechcyclist
We’ve got what I think of as the 2010 problem in a considerable number of states. When the Rethugs won big in 2010, they gerrymandered the fuck out of both Congressional districts and state legislative districts. Damned if I know what sort of supermajority of the popular vote we’d have to win in Wisconsin, for instance, to gain a majority of state legislative seats in either house.
Even winning governorships in those states, so that a Dem governor would theoretically counterbalance a GOP legislature when redistricting time came, doesn’t seem to have done much good in a lot of these states. I know NC basically gelded the governor’s powers during a lame-duck session before the current Dem governor took office, and I’m sure there was some of that in other states.
Damned if I know how we reverse that. I don’t even know whether the people running the DNC, etc. even think about it in an organized manner.
Suzanne
@rikyrah: Right?! Why is she surprised?!
Too many women let themselves be fooled into thinking that shitty men respect them. They wanted to think of feminism as something their mothers did.
MisterDancer
I’m going to say this generally, and then move on.
Any plans for splitting up the US must include how to get millions of at-risk people, esp. Women, LBGTQIA+ folx, people with Disabilities, and Black and Brown people over the new borders.
Otherwise, you’re just replaying, as I said yesterday, the Compromise of 1877, just with a lot more groups than Black folx on the line. That was a shitty decision then, and giving up on millions because of toxic nonsense doesn’t look better in the 21st Century.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@The Thin Black Duke:
Suburban and exurban women will once again have a lot to say about “them colored people” and their taxes.
Elizabelle
This is Norm Ornstein yesterday, about the Bruen guns case. And today, Roe. Tomorrow: Hungary, if on this path. We can fight back.
schrodingers_cat
@MisterDancer: Thanks for saying this.
Dorothy A. Winsor
James E Powell
@Cacti:
Those two are symbols for self-described liberals who are actually anti-liberal a holes, but the FTFNYT had far more impact than either of those two. More than Ralph Nader.
They did the war on Gore, they ran a 20 year smear campaign against Hillary Clinton. Today their efforts bore bitter fruit.
Immanentize
@mali muso: Happy preview — so far, they love it! Not too expensive, great food, weather, and people. Additionally, lots of Brits moved there as retiring expats because of all the amenities and good health care. Sadly for those cretins, Brexit, which means their EU health care privileges, etc. Cannot be transferred. Oops, so now there are new housing opportunities.
ETA when you get back, catch me in a thread and we will get Water girl to connect us.
Leto
@Sure Lurkalot: the head of Planned Parenthood made the point of saying that blue states won’t be able to absorb the demand from the rest of the country. And they shouldn’t have to do that. But as with every other aspect of American healthcare, it’s resorted to a GoFundMe style system. Hope your story is compelling enough!
Soprano2
@debbie: Why is she surprised? He knows that they are unstoppable now in their desire to remake America into the country that existed in the 1950’s. They don’t have to wear their masks anymore, they can tell us what they really believe.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: Exactly. I don’t see how we surmount that practical impediment without a lot of upheaval and bloodshed, e.g., a partition scenario. (India can clue us in on how that went — and how it’s going generations later.) I mean, I get the urge! I hate rightwing assholes too! But again I’ll note that more Californians voted for Trump than people in AL, MS and AR combined.
MisterDancer
You first admit it’s the work of decades.
Then you start building actual working coalitions who understand they are doing work that will take time to succeed.
Then you build funding models that support those coalitions over, very likely, decades.
Then you figure out how to work the refs; to get media on your side, to build popular support for your ideas.
Then you just keep grinding.
It’s not fun, it’s not cool, and it’s very much from dogcatcher up, not POTUS down. Yet it very much aligns with how the Conservative Movement put America in this crisis.
Suzanne
@MisterDancer: We have airplanes, interstate highways, and one third of Americans have a smartphone. Physical movement is the easy part. Living under fascism is the hard part. Don’t act like this is without significant risk, too.
Citizen Alan
@schrodingers_cat:
Correction: You can’t expand the Court with only 48 Senators.
The Thin Black Duke
@TerryTime: White men won’t be able to. That want lots and lots of white babies.
SiubhanDuinne
@cope:
That gave me a pained chuckle.
debbie
@Immanentize:
Alito used the word “egregious” thirteen times. He’s egregious!
Percysowner
This is devastating. My daughter is about to have her second baby, via C-section. I am going to strongly urge her to have her tubes tied while they are in there and while she still can. Her hubby is planning to take care of things on his end, but I’m going to stress that since her rights are now gone, she needs to protect herself and not rely on the men in her life. God Forbid she is raped, or he dies and she falls for someone who doesn’t want to be snipped.
Then there is my granddaughter. Her rights are out the window. She’s 4 and for the past 6 or so months she has said that sometimes she feels like a boy. I am terrified for her. (Using she/her until she tells me otherwise because it’s easy and I’m lazy).
I’m in freaking Ohio, reddish purple by actual percentages, gerrymandered so much that the Dems will NEVER take the legislature again. I don’t know what the kids will do. I do know I want my grandchilden safe and able to make their own decisions.
I feel sick, even though I knew it was coming.
ian
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes you can, so long as those 50 vote together. If we can keep Manchin and Sinema (and any others) together is a separate question. It is also a long term goal we need to think about if we can keep our majorities past 2022.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: I was surprised because it was historically inaccurate and more screed than reasoning. It is really poorly written. I really thought Alito would have to rewrite it quite a bit to get others to join. It’s almost as if they just threw up their hands after the leak and stopped caring about being honest jurists.
PS, I am having comment box problems, my margins are broken, so I apologize for typos, etc.
Soprano2
Yep, 100% true. Too many liberal men felt Hillary was “icky”.
jnfr
@Suzanne:
I’ve thought about this a lot, and I can’t make it work geographically. Also: they don’t want to let us live free in our own ways. They really want to control us.
Mai Naem mobile
@Dorothy A. Winsor: i would like them to revisit Loving v Virginia..let Ginnie and Clarence have some of their precious rights taken away.
schrodingers_cat
Populist left has fighting words for Democrats but when it comes to fighting Rs, their solution is to not vote, vote for some 3rd party candidate so that they can sit on the sidelines and criticize while maintaining their ideological purity.
They did this when they voted for Nader in 2000, sat out the election in 2010, voted for Jill Stein in 2016, and now they spend most of their time criticizing Biden from the left for not being magic grandpa.
They too are responsible for this court.
zhena gogolia
@Eolirin: Yeah.
matt
The mullahs have decided.
trollhattan
@Leto:
IMNSHO red states and the dominionists are going to conjure up some kind of federal transit visa to make it more difficult for girls and women to travel out of state. Pandora’s box has had the lid ripped from its hinges and thus emboldened, they’re not done by a longshot.
Zzyzx
@Immanentize: I’ve decided that as a diabetic white (albeit Jewish) male in my 50s, I’m going to stay and fight. I only have 20 or so years left and I live in a safe blue state, so I’m going to work to let those more desperate get out.
West of the Rockies
Get angry; anger leads to action.
Don’t lose hope; that path leads to inertia and despair–and then the fuckers win.
schrodingers_cat
@Citizen Alan: I was including the two independents who caucus with the Ds.
Josie
@lowtechcyclist: I’m aware of the problem. I live in Texas, which has elevated gerrymandering to a fine art. I hope that the political wizards on our side are working on figuring out a way to fight that along with voter suppression. We can’t just give up and throw in the towel.
Immanentize
@CaseyL: There is more than one clause in the 14th. For example the Equal Protection clause. And this case is about that odd beast, substantive due process, not procedural due process. Even your selected quote indicates it is not eliminating the whole of the 14th amendment. See?
The Thin Black Duke
@Suzanne: If the Republicans take over, I’m dead. I know how this story ends.
different-church-lady
But remember, it was just a draft that was leaked…
MomSense
@Suzanne:
Or if women just want to come to Maine for a camping trip, I’m happy to take them to a nice campground.
Suzanne
@jnfr:
Yes, that is correct. They want our bodies to make their babies.
Mike in NC
This is great news for Ron DeSatan, who is looking to install new drapes in the Oval Office in January 2025.
Percysowner
@Mai Naem mobile:
They are rich, they will move to a state that allows interracial marriage. That would be no skin off of their noses.
trollhattan
@Soprano2: It was voter suppression that put Trump over the top.
Elizabelle
@Immanentize:
These fuckers were not honest at their confirmation hearings. They lied. Every single last one of the conservatives.
THEY LIED.
Fake Irishman
@MisterDancer:
this. It took Ireland 30 years, but they got the right to choose back. We can too. But it’s going to be a long slog.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
What, an archipelago of blue urban/suburban islands surrounded by red exurbs and rural areas? I’m sorry, but that’s just not going to work.
trollhattan
@Percysowner: Amazingly, tubal ligations are not available in Catholic hospitals and here in California we have a LOT of Catholic hospitals.
MisterForkbeard
@Eolirin: From what I’m seeing “getting angry” isn’t going to be a problem for the Democrats or any of the women I know.
The Thin Black Duke
@The Moar You Know: Most of us can’t.
Soprano2
@rikyrah: Oh, anyone who couldn’t see the roadmap Alito drew for that in the draft opinion is an idiot or willfully blind.
Immanentize
@debbie: You know what word Justice William Brennan used the most? Dignity.
prostratedragon
@Elizabelle:
And all it took was for them to survive several decades of Francos and Salazars and such. Freedom ain’t free.
James E Powell
@Soprano2:
A fairly large number of self-described pro-choice women voted for George W Bush & Trump. Enough to change the outcome in all three of their elections.
oatler
They opened the door to bloody civil war. I used to watch the violence on my TV and think “it ‘s all going to end this way, just let me live out my span in peace”. But noooooo
Alison Rose
@MisterDancer: What I would really like to see is some rich ass celebs donating metric fucktons of money to abortion funds and to any GoFundMes or whatever for people who need to relocate. Or maybe a bunch of them can make their own organization to aid with mass relocation for anyone who needs it. If I were wealthy, I’d be throwing all of it at that cause right about now.
raven
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m not going any-fucking where.
Josie
@Josie:
Mister Dancer has good suggestions at 173.
Elizabelle
@prostratedragon: Yes. The Spanish and Portuguese recognize fascism. The majority of them do not want to go back.
Franco died in 1976; Salazar in 1970. As Wiki says, “Salazar ruled Portugal in a corporatist dictatorship” from 1933-68.” He was Prime Minister.
debbie
@Immanentize:
So much for judicial temperament. //
JPL
@Immanentize: If Thomas feels that Loving was settled because of equal protection, why not Obergefell?
lowtechcyclist
@The Thin Black Duke:
This. I realize that it may be the right decision for a relative handful, but the vast majority of us will have to continue to live here in this country, whichever way it goes.
Politically there’s no question that the system is stacked against us, but wishing that we had a better system won’t accomplish anything: at least for now, we’ve got to figure out how to win within the system we’ve got.
Another Scott
@debbie: I had the same question. I assume someone is doing a line-by-line comparison to show that Roberts – yet again – was lying to us that the “leak” was not just “a draft that nobody had voted on “and all the other gaslighting mouth noises he gave.
Grr…,
Scott.
Immanentize
@raven: Well, maybe to the Coast occasionally?
How is the blocker doing? You?
zhena gogolia
@The Moar You Know: That’s how I feel.
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
I’m guessing “who leaked?” is no longer a matter of any concern.
My take is that the right-wingers leaked it to test what would happen if they did it. They leaked it. Nothing happened. Just the same old chatter from the same old people and the needle on Ds v. Rs did not move one percent. So they went ahead and did it.
Another Scott
@JPL: Because it was the result he wanted, of course. Outcomes are what they care about, not any legal niceties.
Grr…,
Scott.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: The Pacific coast stays together, as does most of the Northeast.
Honestly, is there a better idea that doesn’t sentence at least a generation of women to forced birth slavery?
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: I’d have to secede from the guy across the street. Or vice versa (more likely).
The main reason I’m not in favor of breaking up the US is that it would be followed by death camps and the genocide of millions. The main question is whether we avoid that in any event.
Brachiator
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I guess I will have to read Thomas’s opinion.
This perhaps underscores the probability that millions of Americans have been quietly angry since the late 1950s, passing their anger along to younger people who felt as they did.
These people want to live in a racist, sexist country, one dominated by a blighted vision of Christianity. Like the Taliban, they could look at progress, tolerance and prosperity tied to secularism and inclusiveness, and hate it all.
They yearn for a Dark Ages of rigid, narrow morality. These ugly, regressive Supreme Court decisions are everything they ever dreamed of.
TheflipPsyd
I was born in 1971 — abortion has been legal for my whole conscience life. I am filled with grief and anger, helplessness and hopelessness. I will never forget the look of my then 5 year old daughter’s face — the sheer joy — when she saw that Hillary Clinton was running for president. Even at that age, she somehow thought her options were limited and realized at that moment, they weren’t. I will fight as hard as I can to make sure that this decision gets reversed and that her future is not limited any further.
Right now, that means I will continue to vote in every election, donate, protest, etc. If I have to do more, I will do more. Leaving the country is not an option for me or my family. I am least blessed to live in Delaware, which is reliably blue, even if it is a corporate friendly type of blue. I will teach my children to be responsible citizens and make sure their voices are heard.
My hope is in the younger generation. I have a 13 year old and two 11 year olds. They and their friends give me great hope for the future — because they truly are a very accepting and tolerant generation. They are just on the cusp of understanding what is at stake, still believe that they can change the world and solve the problems of climate change, etc. As my 13-year old son said to me a few weeks ago, “I am so tired of living through all these historical events — things need to change.”
trollhattan
My kid’s in D.C. today staying right off The Mall. I have to ask her to please not get arrested.
Alison Rose
Quoth Elizabeth Warren: “The level of control that the Republican Party wants over individual Americans is undemocratic—and frankly, it is downright creepy.”
Yep.
Soprano2
@Immanentize: Well that won’t work at all. It’s dumb to think it will.
taumaturgo
Score another “win” for the American Taliban and the tyranny of the minority. There has been a slow progression to this moment, coupled with the indifference and distraction of over half the register voters. Is this how democracy dies?
JPL
Well I no longer have equal protection under the law.
Alison Rose
Biden is supposed to speak at 12:30 ET
piratedan
Just thinking about this… is that the radical theocratic right has been bombing planned parenthood sites for decades, amping up hate and murdering abortion advocates for decades, a non-stop pattern of harassment and vitriol… now, thru what many would call nefarious means… they’ve won….
and I see the incendiary conversation and passion here (justifiably so) that these archaic decisions have created and I wonder if we’re going to see violence as a response. I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone respond to this by killing some SCOTUS justices. I have the intense feeling that the game is rigged and I can see where some people would think just sweeping pieces off the board is the only choice left to them.
Immanentize
@JPL: Obergfeld was not based at all on equal protection. Only substantive DP. Gay people do not (yet) have equal protection rights. RBG was, until the end, trying to end the sub-EP rights of women! Race claims are based, generally, on a strict scrutiny analysis. Gender (and maybe age?) Are based on “intermediate scrutiny” which is a less protective standard than that applied to race claims. There are at least 3 votes on the current case to say that 14th amendment EP applies ONLY to race claims. Maybe more than 3 votes….
Elizabelle
From an article about the newly elected Colombian leadership: the VP candidate was campaigning near a sign that said
I think we should use that slogan. Too many who would support Democrats and democratic ideals do not vote.
Make it something cool, not just a duty.
Dare to Vote. Because if they don’t, their ability to make any change through voting will continue to just wither away.
raven
@Immanentize: Hopefully. The block has helped a good bit. My limp is still with me but part of this procedure was diagnostic so it’s really encouraging that I can find out what is causing the weakness in my leg.
thanks
Bill Arnold
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yes. This is what the “I can’t vote for that woman.” / But her emails / There is no visible difference between Republicans and Democrats / Donald the Dove / Russian propagandists / Israeli propagandists / etc wrought.
Any US citizen who was of voting age in 2016 and did not vote for Hillary Clinton is guilty.
Soprano2
@Leto: Oh, MO has already talked about this!!! I’m just waiting for them to set up a checkpoint on I-44 at the MO/IL border in order to make every young woman provide a negative pregnancy test. MO Republicans hate hate hate that there is an abortion clinic about 10 miles from the border in Illinois.
Captain C
@rikyrah:
The same reason Susan Collins is always shocked and concerned. They’re not here for the hunting.
Elizabelle
Are we allowed to wear our pink hats to protest? I realize it’s summer and all, but …
Zelma
I can’t describe how this decision has hit me. I knew it was coming; we all did. But now it’s real and I am watching the beginning of the undermining of the rights of women that have shaped my life. I am old enough to remember the pre-Roe and pre-Griswold world. I knew girls who disappeared in high school; I knew girls who had their whole lives upended by unintended pregnancies; I knew at least one young woman who almost died trying to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. And I know the psychological toll that fear of pregnancy imposed women of my generation.
I fought for women’s equality from the 1960s on. I’ll do what I can now. But I am deeply afraid of the world my new great-granddaughter will face
Immanentize
@raven: I’m pulling for you from my safe blue state haven.
Freemark
@Immanentize: Certainly, share with all please. I’ve been considering trying to retire there if the influx of expats doesn’t get them to change their laws. Porto was where I was looking at.
Betty Cracker
@Percysowner: I feel sick and angry and worried about how this will affect my kiddo, etc., too. It’s almost a physical sensation, like being smothered. Just a horrible day.
raven
@Immanentize: Tanks, Athens is pretty blue.
J R in WV
Wife is disgusted, said 100K women should march around each of the 6 corrupt Justices’ homes armed with AR-15s. She worked in the long ago with an Aunt Jane group while at the University, they provided rides into Canada at first, then to NY after they legalized women’s reproductive health care.
I’m pretty disgusted also too. This ruling would have prevented my cousin’s birth, which came about a couple of years after his mom, my aunt, had pretty serious surgery for an ectopic pregnancy. They were delighted to actually have a spawn, thought it might be impossible, this was around 1960 give or take a year or two. He is my only close relative still here in WV.
OT: We have decided we would pay good money to see Jeff Clark in custody outside his house in his pajamas. If there’s video out there, the owner can make bank!
Immanentize
@Freemark: Will do. And I know Mali Muso will as well. She’s the bee’s knees.
Citizen Alan
@schrodingers_cat: thats still 48
Juju
Well hell. Also what Kay said.
Immanentize
@raven: If I could get a visiting gig there, I will. I have a shot at Georgia State….
lowtechcyclist
@Josie:
I’m not the giving-up type. But I’m really asking, are there people in the party who are studying this, mapping out plans to address it and hopefully someday undo it? They should be able to tell us which state legislatures we’re a few seats away from winning back right now, and which ones are beyond reach without a great deal of long-term planning and organizing.
That’s one big difference between the two parties’ organizations: the Dems as an institution have rarely put much effort into, tried to gin up much support for, races below Congress and Governor. I get tons of political mailings, but I almost never see anything about state legislatures or local races.
pat
Let’s start using the proper similarities:
The American Taliban is taking over.
jnfr
@MisterDancer:
Yes, this. Thank you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Amplifying what Imm said. Give people room to grieve and rage today. I am one of the first to jump on doomerism, but today is not the day. I am not going lecture people who just lost a fundamental right on how to react.
ksmiami
@piratedan: Why not? As more people get pushed against a wall and as this fight becomes existential – as in the rights of women to lead happy, productive lives they choose, or as we don’t want gay couples murdered by goons, why would the other side get to be “safe”? They started this fight; now let’s end it and them on our terms.
raven
@Immanentize: Now the largest enrollment in the state system!
SiubhanDuinne
‘@TaMara, post:
I think you’re right. This post has been up for only 90 minutes, and we’re already halfway to a TBogger!
My Canadian friends are horrified (ETA: Unsurprised. But horrified.)
JPL
Does anyone have a list of states that want to identify what birth control is allowed? I know MO has already discussed the morning after pill and IUD, but I don’t think they passed it.
Every democratic candidate needs to talk about protecting birth control. Your representatives should not dictate what is appropriate for you. That should be between you and your doctor.
Kent
A lot of talk here about fleeing red states. And I completely understand that sentiment.
My wife and I lived in the heart of Texas for 13 years. Her medical training brought us there and a variety of job and family circumstances led us to stay longer than we had originally intended. But during that time (from 2003 to 2016) Texas changed dramatically from a relatively purple state to a bright red one completely in the grip of the GOP MAGA hordes. For example, the best congressman I have ever had was Chet Edwards, the DEMOCRATIC congressman from Waco who was run out of office by Tom Delay’s redistricting scheme. When we moved there in 2003 Waco also had a lot of other local Democratic politicians and public education was being decently run in the state for the most part. All of that completely changed in a decade.
In 2016 we moved back to the Pacific Northwest and I have never once regretted that decision. It isn’t just one thing like abortion. It is hundreds of little things. Although we live in a suburb with similar demographics to the one where we lived in TX we now have sidewalks on every street and kids can and do walk safely to school. That was impossible in TX. We have bike paths and infrastructure that goes beyond only accommodating cars. We have schools that aren’t afraid of talking about and promoting diversity. And we actually WIN some local political battles instead of ALWAYS ALWAYS being on the loosing side of every single political fight we find important.
I realize we are wealthy and mobile enough to have the luxury to decide where we want to live and not everyone has that luxury. Texas, for example, has more Democrats than any other state but California. They just don’t have enough to ever win.
What is the answer? I honestly don’t know. But I do know I am far more relaxed and mentally healthy to be living someplace that actually reflects my values. Rather than being on the losing end of every single issue I ever care about. I can just live my life at times without constantly being enraged.
Elizabelle
@J R in WV:
That has occurred to me. Carry guns, fake or real. And we can use signage, too.
Why should people who take our rights away have any peace? People who force us to live among those who would carry guns just about anywhere?
I would love to hear that people are booing the “Justices” and GOP politicians in public, and even throwing food at them in restaurants.
Too bad for the neighbors, but maybe we can make these six “Justices” problems for their neighborhoods, too.
Free speech, y’all. While we still have it.
Immanentize
Biden is gonna speak at 12;30 about Roe. I’m gonna tune out until then or after then. Peace, jackals!
Captain C
@Bill Arnold:
Don’t forget, “How dare you blackmail me by mentioning the Supreme Court?!?”
JPL
This is good, but the Supreme court will not allow that.
New: AG Merrick Garland says SCOTUS overturning Roe v Wade has eliminated a fundamental right — adds “the FDA has approved the use of the medication Mifepristone. States may not ban Mifepristone based on disagreement with the FDA’s expert judgment about its safety and efficacy.”
twitter by hugo lowell
Tony Jay
Wow. I’ve been busy at work and then I turn on The Juice to find this… fuckery.
‘Good’ of the Army of Lost Souls to make the stakes in November so crystal clear for the hard of voting.
Other than that, I’ve got nothing but a churning gut and horrified sympathy.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: TY
Josie
@lowtechcyclist: The logical people to address these issues would be both the state and national Democratic party officials. Maybe we should organize a letter writing campaign to said officials to request that they look into it?
trollhattan
Kid texted to say she was on a run and went past the Supreme Court as the decision was handed down, but didn’t know until she got back. Quite the coincidence.
trollhattan
@Tony Jay: See, there really are things worse than BloJo. Lucky us.
The Thin Black Duke
Nicque Marina knew this was coming.
sab
I am post-menopausal. I did not sit out the 2016 election to snub Hilary, instead I worked many hours on her campaign. I was a fertile female before Roe v Wade. So this is not my problem,
gvg
@Alison Rose : California has ecological problems related to global warming and water. It cannot support everyone moving there, infact people should be moving out of California and the west. I love their government, but what you propose is not sound. What you need to do is encourage spread. Being successful as an example helps.
MisterDancer
A Feminist I follow posted the below when the Draft came out, and I’m thinking on it now:
If Poland can do it, why can’t we?
kindness
So those 3 justices Trump installed have decided to remake America in their own preferred notions. Is it too soon to point out that if some liberal purists had voted for Hillary rather than Jill Stein or wrote in Bernie that none of this would be part of our lives right now?
Our own people shot us in both feet to prove their virtue signaling.
Dangerman
All those jobs leaving California for Texas just hit the emergency brake.
Ohio Mom
@Immanentize: As a Jewish person who has heard many stories of family members and friends who did and didn’t leave Europe in time — and the ones who left, often left for idiosyncratic reasons that just happened to work in their favor in retrospect — and as someone who has spent some time wondering about how I would know it was time to leave (my grandparents came here so it’s not like my American roots are so very deep, I have a model that emigrating can be considered), I have realized that contemporary talk about leaving the U.S. reflects privilege.
Now I don’t hold privilege against anyone. Mostly you are born into it and it’s what you do with it that counts.
Privilege is why in the end, the young women in my circles will be mostly able to continue to receive any reproductive health services they need (the exceptions be along the lines of the woman in Ireland whose death ultimately led to Ireland legalizing abortion).
It’s a lot harder to emigrate nowadays than it was in the early 1900s, when my grandparents set sail. The requirements to be admitted to a developed country are high.
I very briefly looked into moving to Canada during the Bush 2 years — by briefly I mean I opened and closed the website in a matter of minutes. It was obvious Ohio Family could never make the cut.
We are also not candidates for moving our old, chronic health conditon asses over a border sereptiously and living under the radar as a taxi driver and a cleaning lady. Especially considering we have a young adult autistic son. He ain’t blending in anywhere.
So I say to all of you considering emigrating, I envy you. Just please don’t be smug about, okay?
zhena gogolia
The way Russia got to be what it is today is because of all the waves of decent people leaving it. I don’t blame those people, but it makes me very sad for us to become that kind of country. It doesn’t end well.
opiejeanne
@dnfree: Yes, one of many. Two of my three kids were unplanned. I lost at least one pregnancy before I knew I was pregnant, and then there was the one that was the result of rape. It was MY DECISION how many kids I would have, I made it, and I do not regret it.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: We know they want to gut the federal government (by killing the ability of the EPA and other agencies to write and enforce regulations). The government is not sustainable on this path. The framers never intended that a bare majority of unelected people would have the power to destroy the federal government and rights of the people.
The solution is clear:
Democrats keep the House and Senate in November.
DC is admitted as the 51st state.
Senate majority gets rid of the unconstitutional filibuster.
Senate majority expands the SCOTUS to 15 members, starts Constitutional amendment process to change lifetime appointment to 20 years or something (and similar reforms (e.g. each subsequent President gets to appoint 1 justice to replace the longest serving one every 2 years)).
National anti-gerrymandering laws (independent (not bipartisan)) redistricting commissions are mandated. National voting rights rules to mandate early voting periods, vote by mail, no restrictive ID rules, etc.
Change reapportionment rules in the House (435 is too few; maybe a minimum of 2-5 Representatives per state with proportional scaling, or something).
Plan for statehood for PR.
Etc.
These are just off the top of my head.
It’s not hopeless. Only small changes are needed to get the federal government back on track, and rein in the unconstitutional stuff that the RWNJ states are doing.
All things are possible for self-governed people of good will.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Soprano2: Maybe the pregnancy cops and their auxiliaries will start patrolling the Saint Louis waterfront. Bent local Sheriffs might sell Letters of Transit like in Casablanca.
ksmiami
@MisterDancer: We can move and repatriate everyone. I prefer this to living under fascists.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: That holds for depopulating rural US states, too.
A loss of decency.
Glad we have such a decent guy as POTUS. I look forward to his speech at 12:30. Hope he’s on time, because he has got an audience.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
The Pacific isn’t my part of the country, but I gather that for the most part, you’d just have the strip between the coast and the mountains. And not even all of that.
Boswash may appear from afar like a single big megalopolis, but nope. PA is heavily red outside of the Philly and Pittsburgh areas.
Maryland, where I live, has a blue DC-Baltimore-Annapolis triangle, but outside of that, it’s pretty red. The triangle can comfortably outvote the rest of the state, but if they want to secede, we’re a large island but still an island.
Virginia, where I’ve spent much of my life, is islands. A big one in Northern Virginia, and smaller ones in the Norfolk and Richmond areas and elsewhere. Geminid could get more granular about Virginia than I can.
Etcetera. Blue islands in a red sea.
Lyrebird
@debbie: Thanks (and of course huge thanks to Betty C!) for listening, can’t stomach any of it. And agreed:
We’re going to give them a “midterm” election like has not been seen before.
Tazj
@Elizabelle:My own hometown newspaper the Buffalo News couldn’t find one before or after the 2016 election. In Buffalo, NY! The only people they found grudgingly supported her. For those who don’t know Buffalo always votes in overwhelming majorities for Democrats. They linked her to every local political scandal scandal they could (she had no connection to them except being at a dinner for area Democrats)and ran a story that took up the whole front page questioning her trustworthiness 2 days before the election.
Remember how the press mocked Mark Udall/ Mark Uterus? Hilarious.
Trying really hard right now not to engage with all the celebratory men and some women crowing about how gun rights are the constitution but the right to an abortion isn’t.
TheflipPsyd
@Ohio Mom: Nicely worded and thank you. I feel the same way.
gvg
@MisterDancer: Also how you keep getting the new ones over the border forever. I think you know this is not the answer. Laws and protections are better.
Right now we need to figure out how to prevent the extreme gerrymandering that is allowing a minority to ram this through. We should have bigger margins in both houses so we could pass federal laws, and we should have more state legislatures too.
MisterDancer
I have good friends who live up that way, and would love to have me and MzDancer up there.
And yet. I’m Black. I’m horrifically aware, thanks to a metamour from a decade ago, of the ugly situation with White Supremacists in the region. I know Oregon was founding as a “No Blacks Allowed” state, and too many assholes thrive like that up there, to this day. Not to mention the ugly situation me and MzDancer ended up in, last we were in Portland.
I’m glad it worked for you and yours. Maybe it would work for us. But I remember thinking that when I went to school in Mass, and it wasn’t like that, At All.
ksmiami
@Dangerman: Yes – we are going to have to boycott companies in red states. Sorry.. Your desire for low taxes doesn’t outweigh women’s rights to bodily autonomy…
Steeplejack
(Includes snippets from Thomas’s opinion.)
CaseyL
@Kent: Yes. Exactly. I lived in Miami for a few years in the 1980s, and remember how I was in a state of near-constant anger – plus hopelessness and apathy, knowing how greatly my “side” was outnumbered….and Florida was less horrible then, politically, than it is now!
SiubhanDuinne
@mali muso:
@Immanentize:
My friend, and owner of the house I’m renting, has settled in Setúbal and loves everything about living in Portugal. He often sends me articles and videos. If either of you would find them useful, I’d be glad to pass them along. Ask WG for my email address.
Soprano2
I wish multiple reporters would shove their phone in Susan Collins’ face, play that quote where she says she’s sure Kavanaugh won’t vote to overturn Roe, and then ask her for comment. I’m sure she’d run away like the coward she is.
zhena gogolia
@Lyrebird: Yeah! We have to sweep these midterms!
Alison Rose
@gvg: I’m not actually meaning for every single person to move to California, just saying it is an option. There are other blue states that would be welcoming and safe, too. As to “people should leave CA” some of us don’t have that option.
James E Powell
@MisterDancer:
I do not know. Everything I know about Polish politics I learned from one book – Applebaum’s Twilight of Democracy – which means I don’t know very much at all.
For us here in the US of A, the people who are not christo-fascist authoritarians have to learn to spend more of their energy fighting christo-fascists and less fighting each other. I keep hoping “this time, they will finally get the message.” And it is possible. Every time
Dum spiro, spero.
zhena gogolia
Come to Connecticut, everybody!
Another Scott
@Soprano2: She doesn’t care.
As you know, the only solution to Collins and the rest of them is to vote them out (and take away their power to thwart action – the filibuster). That’s what matters.
Performative outrage doesn’t change anything on its own.
Cheers,
Scott.
Gravenstone
@Ksmiami: Get your ignorant ass back in the box, fuckwit.
Eolirin
@MisterForkbeard: Yeah, getting angry is never really an issue; staying angry is exhausting though. That’s always been what we’ve struggled with. We’re not addicted to it like a lot of the right is, we don’t *want* to be angry.
But we *need* to be angry, and for a long long time if we’re going to get to where we need to be.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: I am down with receiving those videos and articles.
Josie
@ksmiami:
“We can move and repatriate everyone.” This is utter bullshit, but you probably already know that. Maybe have a reasonable response for a change.
FelonyGovt
I’m so sad for my contemporaries, who worked so hard to get Roe accomplished 50 years ago.
I’m so sad for young women, especially those in red states who can’t move or travel to places where their bodily autonomy is still respected.
And I’m incandescently furious at this unjust system which enshrines the views of a fanatical religious minority into law.
James E Powell
@kindness:
It’s not those three justices or, more accurately, those five justices appointed this century. It’s the president who appointed them, the senators who confirmed them, the religious cults that produced them, and most of all, the voters who gave them power.
Cameron
@Elizabelle: They weren’t put on the court to be jurists. They were put on the court to support the ultra-right’s agenda.
Dangerman
@ksmiami: Not talking boycott (although that applies, too). The ability to attract women to the workforce in Red States just went to shit. Sure, tech remains overwhelmingly male (been there, done that) but you need a fair number of women as well. Good luck, Texas.
Elizabelle
@Cameron: Yep. Politicians in judicial robes.
Bill Arnold
@Almost Retired:
A single AR-15 with unlimited ammunition, operated by a competent man (or woman) in a foxhole, would have shifted the outcome of any battle in the US Revolutionary War. (Assuming no jams at inopportune moments or unlucky/lucky cannon fire or musket fire.)
A musket and an AR-15 are not qualitatively comparable.
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: I was just poking around YouTube looking at old Spanish TV idents and sign-on/sign-off graphics because some from the 1970s were fabulously psychedelic.
Then I stumbled across one from the late Franco era that ended with a big picture of Franco. And all the comments were full of Spanish Franco lovers reminiscing about how great the dictatorship was. So peaceful! None of this crime and disorder and disrespect!
So that made me sad.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: I lived in Ridgefield and my youngest son was born in Danbury Hospital. I went to a practice in Newtown that had midwives affiliated with them. Even though we moved in 1980, I still miss it.
It’s such a warm welcoming place especially for families.
Anastasio Beaverhausen
First Roe, now Obergefell. Though not asked to, Thomas felt compelled in his opinion to point the way to reversal of marriage equality, among other things. Thomas, “In future cases we should consider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell.” Homophobia is a thing, and irresistible to conservatives if it is also seen as another way to “own the libs.” Husband and I live in intense blue Northern Virginia and while we are not gay, gay, GAY, we don’t hide it either. Coworkers and neighbors are cool with it, as long as the yard is maintained, the dog is on leash, etc. (literally a dog, two kids, and a white picket fence.) But 30 (20?) miles away, in any direction, it’s a different story. IHOP breakfast on Saturday should be a treat for everyone, right? But there, while the girl child is eating butter straight up, we get stares. Two men, two kids, one of whom is mixed race…….hmmm. Subtle shaking of the head, gesturing our way with a fork, leaning in to whisper to the spouse. And I blame the Republicans, almost exclusively. I appreciate the cheerleading for our cause by those on the left, but I really, really fear for my family’s future because of the hate and xenophobia on the right. We can’t even spend a weekend at the beach without tiptoeing through MAGA country. “Who’s Brandon?” my daughter asked when she saw the big “Let’s go Brandon” sign a farmer had in his field. Oh, and did I mention hubby was previously undocumented? But through hard work and force of will he now has a degree from a top ranked business school. But he loves kids, so he switched to teaching, got a master’s in special education, and now works in a bilingual school in DC. The kind of immigrant/citizen we need a few hundred thousand more of, in my opinion. At the end of the day, we just want to be left alone to lead our boring lives in peace, with legal recognition and protection, without looking over our shoulder. Am I ranting, probably. Am I warning and worrying, definitely. First Roe, then Obergefell. I’m old enough to remember when being gay was literally illegal. Hell, when we got married in Maryland it wasn’t even recognized back home in Virginia. I don’t want to go back to those times. The draft opinion from Alito swore it wouldn’t apply to other issues, but I’ve been lied to before…
sab
Gonna go ponder my bank account and figure out how much I can send to Tim Ryan’s campaign. They need it and we need him.
Suzanne
@Kent: A dear friend of mine and his wife are leaving the country on July 22. They sold their place in Phoenix and are relocating to Edmonton. Part of it is that their youngest son is now in college and out of the house. But part of it is that they are terrified for their safety, as they are Black and racist hatred is never far away. He offered me assistance. I may need to take him up on it.
JMS
@JPL: we can’t keep it indefinitely and are unlikely to keep it even more than a few months. The only lasting solution is for both parties to agree to a certain baseline. Today, no party is the pro slavery party. Likewise there needs to be a baseline where no major party is anti abortion or pro automatic weapons or climate change deniers. We aren’t there, currently, but that’s the goal. On a practical level that does mean voting for Democrats, but I think it also means the most moderate Republican available when you can’t get a Democrat. Ideally what we want should not be limited to one party, or there will always be a danger of the worst outcome.
hotshoe
words cannot describe how glad I am that I do not have any girl children.
Lyrebird
@TaMara: THANK YOU thank you THANK YOU,
and sorry I typed the name of the wrong frontpager earlier.
Fight
Fight
Fight!
It might have to be small amounts each but I will be giving to some Senate campaigns today for sure.
Christine
@Elizabelle:
It is a mistake to idealize other countries. I had always wanted to leave the US, feeling chronically out of step politically starting in the Reagan years of my youth, and ended up living in Barcelona for several years.
Guess what? Spain (and Europe) have as much racism, sexism, and ugly aspects to their cultures as the States. You cannot escape those human realities, all you can do is fight to expand our human rights wherever you are. So, either you move to Portugal/Spain/etc and fight for those rights THERE, or you can stay here and do it. What you cannot do is move to a utopia to escape from those oppressive forces – it doesn’t exist.
Now, if we’re talking about an actual healthcare system, worker’s rights, etc – of course Europe is where the US should be and if you are documented you can access those essential systems. I chose to come back here and work towards progress in the US. It turns out I’m deeply connected to this country – I didn’t realize until I left.
Suzanne
@JPL: My cousin is the State Rep in the CT House for Ridgefield.
She is a non-dead-ender Bernie supporter type, meaning she was very happy to vote for Hillary.
I’d love for this site to send some money her way in the next cycle.
Brachiator
@kindness:
The vast majority of these types learned from their mistakes and voted for Biden in 2020.
The next battles start from where we are now.
trollhattan
@gvg:
California is static WRT population and in fact lost House seats after the last census.
Water can be resolved by ripping out a million or so acres of almonds. Other issues are more stubborn, of course, such as losing a couple million acres of forest every summer.
EarthWindFire
@Ksmiami: Which ancient document? Alito went back to the Magna Carta in his draft iirc
Major Major Major Major
Should I do a respite thread or would that be wrong somehow?
Tony Jay
@trollhattan:
Hot on the trail, mate. Snapping at your heels.
But yeah, this is beyond appalling. It’s left me feeling numb and I’m not even American.
Just sickening.
Elizabelle
@Anastasio Beaverhausen: We have your back.
And we need to turn out and educate more “we’s” to vote and protect you and your beautiful family.
trollhattan
@Bill Arnold: It’s like a gatling gun you can carry!
Jinchi
Exactly. Republicans keep losing the popular vote. With the exection of W’s post-911 re-election, Democrats have won the majority of the vote in every presidential race since Bill Clinton defeated incumbent George Bush Sr. Likewise, Democratic Senators represent significantly more people than Republicans and gerrymandering keeps Republicans in power well beyond their popular support.
There are too many anti-democratic barriers in our system of government, barriers to registering, barriers to voting access, gerrymandering, the electoral college system, the Senate filibuster, a Supreme Court which openly expresses contempt for popular opinion, and of course, the filibuster – which prevents most popular legislation from passing, at all.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: I hope we get a Biden speaks thread at 12:30. So maybe respite later??
taumaturgo
@Cacti:
For all of the leftier than thou types who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Al Gore or Hillary Clinton because they were “no different than Republicans”.
This is your legacy.
Well, this attack didn’t take long.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: & @Immanentize:
Thank you both.
Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk
@Alison Rose : A great many of us did hold our nose and vote for less appealing candidates – so many of us, in fact, that the Dems now hold the White House and both houses of Congress. What’s the solution when the people we voted so, so hard for won’t do anything about the issue other than rending their garments after the fact?
TriassicSands
A week that will live in infamy.
The Christian Nationalist-Fascists have struck, again, and again, and again.
Major Major Major Major
@taumaturgo: Truth hurts sometimes.
Tony Jay
@Major Major Major Major:
I think that might be a good idea.
Pin this one to the top, because of course, but people probably need a place to go where they can park the justified fury for a little while.
rikyrah
Peanut just called me, asking what the Roe decision means.
Baud
Black Friday 2.
MisterForkbeard
@Soprano2: No, no. She’s already responded to this, saying that she feels bad about it and she’s the real victim here.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Any mention of Peanut makes me smile.
She is going to be part of the solution.
The Truffle
@ian: That really is the only viable solution short of breaking up the country. I hope Dems run on this.
Brachiator
@Anastasio Beaverhausen:
Reminds me of laws regarding interracial marriage.
I don’t believe anything he says. The Trump justices, in particular, have chips on their shoulders and are looking for a fight.
The Thin Black Duke
@Major Major Major Major: When Spielberg was directing Schlindler’s List, he would call Adam Sandler at the end of the day to unwind. So yeah, a respite thread would be nice.
J R in WV
@sab:
I did phone banking for Hillary for several weeks prior to the 2016 election. Calling into Ohio as WV was obviously going Very Red. At first I spoke with many folks who were optimistic and upbeat about the upcoming election.
Closer we got to election day the more that changed. That last weekend I couldn’t make myself do the 45 minute drive into town. Was horrific.
sab
@Ohio Mom: My sister has a husband and inlaws from China, They love many aspects of Chinese culture and yet they are all happy to be here. Some in Ohio. Some in California. But all USA.
Elizabelle
@ian: I am all for expanding the Court.
No reason three Trump-appointed “Justices”, one in a stolen seat, should be wreaking such havoc.
They are illegitimate. And all the conservatives lied in their confirmation hearings. Even Saint John Roberts.
The Thin Black Duke
@taumaturgo: Fuck off. Pied.
Elizabelle
May we have a thread for Biden’s speech, though? That would be frosty.
And kind to those scrolling on a phone.
MisterDancer
@Sir Nose d’Voidoffunk: You support local Abortion funds. You march until your shoes wear out. You organize and work together to support people who need help, and to get local politicians to support them, until you can vote out the fuckers.
The biggest lie the Right fed us, and our media, is that being politically Left and active is nasty and ugly.
JPL
@Elizabelle: Roberts needs to resign, since he can’t control the court. Biden shouldn’t announce plans until after the elections, because I don’t want to give evangelicals another reason to go to the polls. They are already going after gays.
The Truffle
@WV Blondie: good for you. I might do the same. But I am leaning toward believing the country can’t be saved. I think it will go the way of the USSR.
MisterDancer
@Major Major Major Major: Go for it later today. For sure, my post won’t be a respite.
Will be full of spite, in fact.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle: I say two stolen seats, because the one gifted to Goresuch was done so based on “rules” that were discarded to then gift a second to Coathanger.
They can’t win without cheating and once they win, they then declare new rules so that the cheat is redefined as legal and proper.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
This is a tiresome fantasy. Even the American Revolution required an organized army and the French Navy.
Cameron
@TriassicSands: They’re taking full advantage of the distractions offered by the plague, a troubled economy, and a proxy war in Europe. Evil fucks.
Bill Arnold
Wondering what the lawyers here think about what was essentially a power grab by the US Supreme Court in Marbury v. Madison, and about whether the text of the USA constitution grants the unlimited power of judicial review that the right-wing partisan hacks in the current SCOTUS majority assert.
Would it really be a constitutional crisis to tell blatantly partisan ideologues in a SCOTUS majority to fuck off in some situations?
I’m not seeing a disadvantage, sadly. This SCOTUS has managed to discredit the SCOTUS for decades into the future. (Some of the recent majority opinions are embarrassingly badly argued.) Changing the balance would be fine, but we will forever more need to be mindful of how a partisan ideologues can capture the majority and start breaking things at high speed.
Delk
A massive and deep felt fuck you to the log cabin quislings.
Eolirin
@MisterDancer: Civil disobedience plays a big part in this too. If we get really serious about it we can actually do a ton of damage to the ability of the people pushing this stuff to function. Non-violently of course.
They’ve been picketing abortion clinics for decades; we can picket their churches just as easily. And so on.
PJ
@Christine: Europe is not, and has never been, a fountain of tolerance (just take a look at their history, and look at what is going on now in Hungary, Poland, and France.) My father was from Ireland, and the bigotry there shocked me as a kid. Americans have no idea how racist European countries can be until they get to know the locals. I spent 40 days in Spain last summer, and I met not a few people who made unsolicited comments about how much they disdain Africans and Muslims.
Elizabelle
@MisterDancer: I look forward to it!
cain
@Suzanne:
It might not be saved, but it can be reconstituted. The problem here of giving up is that we are a country of nuclear weapons – the next step is to go on a religious war and spread this shit all over the globe. They’ll join forces with other religious fascists.
There won’t be anywhere to go or safe haven.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott:
As someone who bought into her con for a long time, even while despising her, the thing to remember about Susan Collins is she’s a very successful fraud. She would rather be thought of as a weak, dumb and dithering but sincere moderate and win elections than be seen as the shrewd, cynical partisan she is. She, like Lindsey Graham, is determined to stay “relevant”. She is one of a few dozen most powerful people in the world– if not as powerful or “relevant” as she believes herself to be– and she isn’t going to start doing B-list, rubber-chicken, accept-an-honorary-degree speaking tours with Condoleeza Rice and Leon Panetta over any issue.
sdhays
@trollhattan: The W appointees are hardly legitimate either, considering Bush v. Gore. That was a judicial coup – the Republicans voted for the outcome they wanted. If Bush had been the one demanding a recount, it would have been 9-0 supporting Bush. The 2004 election is an asterisk because W shouldn’t have been the incumbent.
TriassicSands
Of course, the problem is that the people who are the problem aren’t hanging out at blogs like B-J. They aren’t watching the hearings. And when election “day” rolls around, voting probably won’t be their top priority. There will be other things that could require their attention. Also, many of those people will have decided that voting doesn’t make a difference or there’s no real difference between the two parties.
In the end, our problems come down to the inadequacies of our electorate. Stupidity, ignorance, racism, etc. are rampant. The ability to make an informed decision based in and on reality is quite limited.
We are demonstrating that a bunch of weak, 200+ year-old constitutional rules can’t survive the burden of an electorate like ours.
Betty Cracker
Klobuchar is spitting fire on MSNBC. (My husband is watching in the other room.)
The Thin Black Duke
@JPL: They already have a reason to go to the polls. They hate us. Fuck their feelings.
Lyrebird
That’s what I was thinking on 11/9/2016 as I tried to compose myself. Like okay time to think like an African American voter, because they have felt this before, weighed compromises for decades.
If @rikyrah:’s Peanut were asking me, not that she would have any reason to, I think I would say it’s time for other people (outside the African American community) to step up and follow the lessons of master classes like BLM marches and so many earlier lessons.
Action confirmation: just gave to Demings, Warnock, Beasley.
Next paycheck: Beto and the VAAC folks.
Eolirin
@cain: Meh, we don’t have the option of not fighting, even ignoring the nukes; the right will accelerate rather than try to slow or mitigate climate change. If the US isn’t able to do things to combat it, we are all going to die, straight up.
This is part of a fight that is literally existential.
Elizabelle
BIDEN UP
Bupalos
@Soprano2: “they” don’t have a specific time period they are trying to go back to. It’s an imaginary time that never existed.
Ksmiami
@Elizabelle: any culinary ppl in the dc area- when these asswipes come to your restaurant either don’t seat them, or give them the extra sauce treatment…
Elizabelle
Today the SC took away a right from the American people …. it’s a sad day for the Court and for the Country.
Talks about how unprecedented to remove a right.
Central Planning
I wish Biden used his middle finger to scratch the side of his nose just now.
Geminid
@taumaturgo: I think there some truth to this complaint, and like it or not you are going to hear it a lot. But in fairness to lefties, there were a lot of people with less defined ideology who ended up casting votes for the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Some of them may have assumed a Clinton win and thought they had a “free” protest vote. They also bear responsibility in such a close outcome, and I think there were a couple million of these folks among Johnson’s 3.5 million or so voters.
Personally, if I am going to blame people, I tend to judge opinion leaders like Sarandon, Moore and the like as the most culpable.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker: She can apply a shiv with great skill. Big fan.
Alison Rose
Biden speaking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmwJNcbw_3w
trollhattan
@Elizabelle: It’s a twofer because yesterday they took away our right to not be terrified by our fellow citizens.
kindness
Going forward…my wish list… We need to elect more Democrats to the Senate. 54 would be enough to tell Manchin & Sinema to go fuck themselves, eliminate the filibuster, add more judges to the Supreme Court (and other Federal courts), and then to be able to pass legislation and act like competent government officials.
One has a right to hopes, right?
Major Major Major Major
@MisterDancer: Ooh, just saw this comment, should I pull?
Sister Golden Bear
If the Supreme Court justices are so concerned about more and more people viewing them as illegitimate, maybe they should not have turned the law into reactionary Calvinball.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@PJ: Hell, I can vouch for that problem in Greece: this is not a place to go if you’re a fan of separation of church and state. When I got conscripted after securing dual citizenship, I got ordered by an officer to get myself baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church. (Luckily for me I escaped through a medical discharge.)
Ruckus
@AliceBlue:
I’m a 73 yr old man.
I’ve never had to personally worry about getting pregnant in 73 yrs.
That’s not the point. Half of the population can get pregnant, and they get that way by the actions of the other half. Pregnancy is an issue for everyone of us, or at least it should be, but a large segment of the unable to don’t actually seem to give one shit about the problem. And a portion of the public seems to think that it is a woman’s duty to bear children, support those children, over everything else in life. And they are 100000000% wrong. Those are the neanderthals, those who want the world to have all the comforts for them while the female half of the population do their every bidding. It’s bullshit. Pure bullshit. They aren’t better, not even close, they are far from being human, they are a couple thousand years behind the curve.
The world has at least tried to grow the hell up, a large portion of the male population – and even a percentage of the female population has held on to ways that are old, outdated, never actually correct when first imagined. There are what 7 BILLION humans on this planet and it’s time that those neanderthals aged up and realized that they aren’t special in any way, shape or form. They have responsibilities to life, to those around them, to the women they think no more of than as recreational entities and to themselves. Their desired way of life gives them the impression that they are important, their actions and ideals make them THE problem in modern life, for all of us.
zhena gogolia
@Another Scott: I so value your intelligent and realistic comments.
Dave P
I just made a donation to Planned Parenthood in “honor” of Samuel Alito, Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch and John Roberts.
trollhattan
@sdhays: Yup, can’t disagree. Scalia and his henchmen essentially hijacked the presidency.
MisterDancer
@Major Major Major Major: Nope — that spite post is for later! Right now I did a quick post for Biden’s remarks, already running.
The Truffle
@West of the Rockies: What if that anger leads to national divorce? Which red America wants anyway?
zhena gogolia
@JPL: Yes, it is. And the weather is fine.
sdhays
@Bill Arnold: Andrew Jackson told the Court to f-off when it came to enforcing treaties with the Native Americans, so there’s post-Marbury precedent. He just flushed the treaties down the toilet and committed genocide.
Who gets to decide which Supreme Court decisions are optional? Whoever that person is suddenly becomes all powerful.
There is no simple trick to this.
Betty Cracker
Biden leaning into the idea of Roe on the ballot. Good.
Elizabelle
Tell Americans to vote for Democrats, Biden.
He won’t go there. I guess he can’t, since it’s partisan.
Elect better representatives but — only one party wants to take away all the rights and freedoms.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: Roe on the ballot. Yes indeed.
And we need some gun safety. For people. Not guns.
Feathers
Fuming. Came here after the first post into my timeline on Twitter chiding people for not using inclusive language when talking about the fall of Roe. And of course it was a he/him dude. I’m do support inclusive language so I only posted that telling people they are grieving wrong is bad.
In the coming 50 year war to win these rights back, permanently this time, we need to learn not to be reflexively shitty to each other.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major: It would be fine.
I see it’s already there and it is primo.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: that is simply not a calculatuon that one can make while remaining attached to reality. “Not worth saving.” Was Germany 1936 “worth saving?”
There isn’t some other option. You might as well say since we’re crossing 420ppm CO2 that the Earth is no longer “worth saving.” It’s an immoral and counterfactual kind of binary.
zhena gogolia
@taumaturgo: Because it’s true?
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@RedDirtGirl: I think about my niece and my daughter. Both in their twenties, my niece has medical issues that could make pregnancy very risky, my daughter has some of my fertility issues and I hope she never miscarries and needs to have a D&C because the way it’s going she might have to be at deaths door before she got needed medical intervention. I think of all the people of childbearing potential that should be able to decide for themselves whether to continue a pregnancy. This sucks. Right now I hate anyone that thought the most important thing in 2016 WASN’T preventing the Republicans from getting their judges. Now they get to tear it all down.
Tim C,
@The Thin Black Duke:
More than anything else, this is correct. The GOP/Conservatism has no values, nothing other than stoking resentment at “those people.” that’s it. That’s why most of us have right-relatives who seem to have lost their minds and abandoned what moderation they might have had.
They hate liberals.
They hate non-whites.
They hate women.
They hate the non-hetero-normative.
So it’s Cleek’s law and damn reality.
Elizabelle
Yay. Biden calls out Thomas for going after other rights.
Calls for peaceful protests. No intimidation or violence or threats.
Eolirin
@Feathers: If we can get our shit together in time for the midterms it may not take as long as all that.
EarthWindFire
@Elizabelle: This. They never cared about being honest jurists. Just cosplayed at it until they could get away with not having to anymore. Now they don’t have to. We’re seeing the results.
Ksmiami
@Dangerman: all of it… the universities in the ass backward states will and should suffer, companies that are all in on rights due to expanding markets need to make noise by relocating from red areas.
Elizabelle
Calls the conservatives on the courts “extreme”, far removed from the majority of Americans, and those abroad are looking at us as an outlier.
“With your vote, you can have the final word. This is not over.”
Now screaming questions about the filibuster. Is the Supreme Court broken?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
A-fucking-men.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, it puts a lot people on the spot of “obey the law and die” and that’s not much of a choice.
Not, that I am sure Alto could give a fuck, in fact I am sure he is counting on backlash and personal violence against him so he can claim to be a martyr.
Eolirin
@Ksmiami: This actually doesn’t play to our advantage, as it decreases the share of not-crazy to crazy in those places, making it harder for us to make progress in flipping those places, and they won’t care about the damage done, they’ll double down in the face of it, it’s what they always do.
We need influxes of population to the cities and greater numbers of educated people, and widespread economic growth, because where those things are present *we start winning more* and where they aren’t we get destroyed.
Georgia was in play in 2020 because Atlanta keeps growing. Pulling back on investment there is just going to take it back off the table again. And so on.
EarthWindFire
@banditqueen: The USSC now legislates what our common “morals” are and they are out-loud proud of this.
In case any conservatives give you the leaves it up to the states line.
Served
“Roe is on the ballot” is not enough anymore to me. It’s known. People came out and voted in 2018 and 2020, understanding the stakes. The current Supreme Court is untouchable by the mechanism of voting, and the approval of new justices is obfuscated behind two layers of elections, one of which is national, and one of which is only available to a given voter every 6 years.
Unless there is a plan for using the Legislative and Executive branches to claw back authority from the Judicial, it’s a very hollow and lame attempt to rally the righteous anger into action.
There is a yawning chasm between young voters and long-standing establishment Democrats on the direness of the situation, and it’s absolutely fueling Biden’s poor approval with them. Roe being blithely eliminated by this court creates a political circumstance that pours fuel on that fire.
cwmoss
@debbie: they never said they’d respect precedent. They acknowledged it as precedent, using the kind of weasel words that give lawyers their well deserved reputations. (I am a lawyer and I can smell weasel words a mile away.)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I would love if our press would get off their ass and demand SCOUTS explain in Amendments aren’t real, then why is the 2nd and only the 2nd sacred.
Eolirin
@Served: Bullshit, it’s not. It’d take a simple majority with the will to suspend the filibuster and expand the court to change it. Right now, that requires at least two more Democratic senators and for us to hold the house.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I agree. Charismatic demagogues should stop lying to them about “revolution”
Jinchi
I agree with you, but this won’t work unless we see more passionate support from the people we elect. I really don’t want to hear Biden say that he was ‘disappointed’ by the court, again. And I don’t want any more pearl clutching about protesters or ‘cancel culture’ when the Justices are shunned in public.
He and the Democrats in government need to be explicit about what they plan to do and what they need from the public in order to achieve it. They need to pass bills supporting voting rights, womens rights and civil rights. They need two more Senators to repeal the filibuster, they need to openly state that the court is losing it’s legitimacy as a fair arbiter of law and they need to openly question the lifetime tenure of court justices,.
Served
@Eolirin: Then they should say that and commit to that! “Roe is on the ballot” means what? It’s already gone! What is the ask? 51 senators? 54 senators? And if that’s achieved, what’s the plan?
“Roe is on the ballot” is defense. We are down double-digits in the 4th quarter, we need offense.
Served
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Very good to focus on punching left at strawmen when 6 conservative judges (two of which Manchin, a “centrist” recently voted in favor of) just trashed a fundamental right and declared war on several others.
I’d recommend you stop fighting 2016, because it’s 2022 and there are actual present-day battles to fight.
Eolirin
@Served: I expect the house will pass a couple of bills that will go to die in the senate on court reform and abortion rights.
That’ll be the plan; we just need enough elected democratic senators willing to bypass the filibuster to actually pass it. People like Fetterman can support lifting the filibuster to pass the legislation as part of their campaigns.
Biden shouldn’t be stepping on that. A brief address is not the right place to lay out that level of detail, and it shouldn’t be Biden making all those decisions unilaterally anyway. Pelosi will have a better sense of what kinds of court reforms can get through her caucus, for instance.
MisterDancer
We create that. We swamp them. We force them into action.
Reps. stay frosty because people aren’t out like the forced Birthers be out. Swap that pressure, show we’re really the loud and angry majority, and tunes will change.
lowtechcyclist
@kindness:
Yes it is. It’s hard for me to see how the ‘Hillary wins’ timeline doesn’t work out even worse than this one. It certainly doesn’t make all this go away.
Jinchi
This is an opportunity for Democrats, but only if they take it. They need to do a lot more than just ask young voters to get to the polls. They need to prove they’ll deliver on their promises.
Layer8Problem
@Fake Irishman:
Absolutely this. They put the priesthood to the curb, so can we.
cain
@Eolirin: These people are funded by billionaires – the SCOTUS also allows unlimited funding – they will take this show on the road. Recall that the American Angelicans were the proponents of laws that allowed gays to be executed in Africa.
There will be increased funding and missions to get on the ballots in european countries as well – I mean, after all plenty of money to go around to fund this shit. The only way to do it is to fight like crazy because that’s what they are doing and they see a light at the end of the tunnel now.
Feathers
@Eolirin: Nope. Seeing small victories won in a single election is how we got into this mess. We need to do what the right did, working on local elections, getting the statehouses back, unions able to fully do the good things they do, fair taxation, universal healthcare, all of it.
One thing I’d like to see is a move to have older folks retire to red states, just to have a few election’s worth of blue votes.
The Thin Black Duke
@Elizabelle: Give ’em hell, Joe!
Dave P
@Cacti: My thoughts as well. The Purity Ponies who voted for Nader and Stein share some of the responsibility for this horrendous Court.
The Thin Black Duke
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “Your proposal is acceptable.”
Ruckus
@bluefoot:
You aren’t wrong but.
This is a law that protected all of us, that helped all of us, made this a better place to live. And yes this country has a horrible history of repression by color and of slavery of half the population about the use of their bodies. Yes it needs to get a hell of a lot better, but this was one step towards that. And woman of all colors gained from it.
I am in no way saying you have to wait your turn, this country has to change, has to grow the hell up. A segment wants none of that, and not only wants none but wants to roll back any and all changes that have taken place in the last 75 or more yrs. They want a world that they envision in what they consider the law, their bible.
At least there was betterment for all women, of any color in the decisions/laws about control of our own bodies. It is a direct hit upon women of any color, it is a major blow to all of us, of any color, of either sex. It takes the protection of the law away. It regresses the law decades. And it is not the end of what this court wants to do to everyone of us, black, white, brown, female, male. Their desire is to regress decades of betterment, throw it in the trash for what they think is their religious, crap ideals. This is robbing us of what people of both sexes and all colors have fought long and hard for, the concept that we are individuals, we have rights, we have self. It is all part of the realization that as good as the concept of our form of government is, it can always be better. They’ve taken that and stomped on it, pissed on it, crapped on it. And they intend to do that to a lot more of OUR government and country. They want their bullshit to be OUR government. They want repression, they want racism, they want obedience to their vision of power, the wealthy to control everything. They don’t want America, they want Hitler – they like the concept of a Nazi like, very controlled government. They want their religious bullshit to be the law of the land and all their subjects to bend that knee. This is their country, not ours, not yours or mine or anyone/everyone else’s. Theirs.
Soprano2
@trollhattan: No, but they have workarounds for that, because otherwise they won’t be included in group health plans. I had a tubal at an outpatient facility even though the hospital my insurance is associated with is a Catholic hospital.
Soprano2
@James E Powell: You’re right, some of them have to take the blame too.
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
That must have been hard to hear. If you can reconstruct what you told her, I wish you’d share.
Ruckus
@slybrarian:
Woman have just had a hell of a lot taken away from them.
Stolen.
They have a right to be pissed. Most adult woman in this country has gained from the law just struck down. They looked at a life of being an incubator, something men can see but never truly understand, and saw that they had actual control of themselves and their bodies. That’s all just been ripped away, decades of work by many, stomped upon, destroyed.
They have a right to be pissed.
They have a right to no longer give a fuck about the feelings of men.
I don’t know if you are a woman or a man but in this moment I’d refrain from denigrating women for being just a bit pissed the fuck off. I’m a man I’m a bit pissed the fuck off. To say the least.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a lot of “leftists” like to say we have to “fight like Republicans!”. This is how Republicans fight
satby
@Freemark: @Immanentize: add me to the list. I mentioned expatriating years ago and got slammed here for it, but I’m getting up there, and just want some peace in my old age.
I vividly remember life before Roe. And it’s so enraging that what we worked so hard for in the 70s and earlier has been swept away. But trying to tell younger people about the threat has been hopeless, and I’ve always included the threat to birth control. I guess every generation has to just learn for themselves since they think history is so boooring.
MisterDancer
But it might be useful to read that as saying “don’t give up” as Bluefoot actually said. I read that in the same way I something remind that if my Parents made it thru Jim Crow, a lot of people can make it thru a lot of crap.
I get you’re upset. We all are. Yet going on on things that I’m pretty sure Bluefoot knows full well about the intersection of Reproductive Rights/Justice and Racism isn’t a hot response, right now.
Madeleine
@Immanentize AND MALI MUSO: If you’re still around: may I tag along on your investigations of Porto? My spouse and I have been mulling this since we visited there for a conference a few years ago.
sab
@Elizabelle: Suzanne knows that. She lives in Pennsylvania.
sab
@Suzanne: Went to a function at my niece’s house and we were not allowed to say anything political that wasn’t insanely right wing because her father in law was there and would be offended. It wasn’t even his house.
Uninvited Guest
@lowtechcyclist:
Oh yeah, Hilary totally would’ve nominated SCJs who would’ve then proceeded to do away with Roe. What?
And that’s without even getting into Covid.
phdesmond
@mali muso:
Boa Viagem
Bill Arnold
@taumaturgo:
You were allied with Team White Christian Nationalist.
Rick Taylor
@rikyrah:
TPM says that “Alito Changed Next to Nothing From the Leaked Draft.”
Layer8Problem
@Served: How about “Payback is on the ballot.” Good enough?
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
I’m in NY State, and as (if) concealed-carry-for-all kicks in for real, I’ll reduce my use of brick-and-mortar businesses and do more on-line shopping. Too many nutcases in the area. Many of the partisan Republicans so a political argument could turn into use of lethal force. (Couple of black belts, personally.)
Ramona
@The Moar You Know: If we keep the House this November and gain two more Senators, we could get a federal law to protect a right to abortion. Step up to it now our nationally elected Dems!
Layer8Problem
@Bill Arnold: I am eagerly awaiting to hear what the PBA and their ilk have to say about concealed carry for all. “Polite enough society for you?”
Ruckus
@Zelma:
I was standing in the line to get my actual HS diploma-turning in cap and gown, behind a girl I knew who handed in her cap, was handed her diploma and then took off her gown. She was pregnant, far along, and I had no idea, she had hid it very well. The old bitty in the window tried to grab back her diploma because back in the 60s being pregnant meant that you were a bad girl and doing things that humans do but HS girls were not allowed to do. She wasn’t giving up that diploma to anyone, let alone some old bitty from school. I almost gave her a standing ovation for the moves. 50 yrs later I told the story to a friend at her house for our 50th graduation party. She knew who I was talking about immediately. Life happens, why do we place such restrictions on only one half of the equation? That pregnancy didn’t happen without an erection. There is a man with equal responsibility in this equation. Maybe, possibly, sometimes, far more.
Ramona
@Suzanne: Help them move to Wyoming and gain two Den Senators?
Bill Arnold
@Served:
I actually watch some of the “progressive” propaganda that often helps Republicans win elections. If you’re actually interested in fighting White Christian Nationalism, I suggest working to identify/map out networks/neuter/neutralize those propagandists. (Some (not most) of whom are Russian, FWIW.)
bluefoot
@Ruckus: I am a WOC. And old enough to remember when women needed their husband’s name on bank accounts, deeds to property, etc. I am very aware of what was taken away today. As of today, a corpse has more bodily autonomy protected by law that I do.
But also as a WOC I am also very much aware of how much has gone into fighting to get to where we were yesterday. How many people put their literal bodies and lives on the line in the fight for expanded rights and freedoms.
What I am saying is that we need to keep fighting even if we’re not the ones who live long enough to see the benefit. Giving up is disarming ourselves and condemning the vulnerable and those younger than us to a hellscape.
drew
Is it too soon to point out that if Hillary hadn’t run an incompetent campaign she would have won in 2016? How long will people continue giving Hillary a pass and keep blaming anyone and everyone else except her for Trump’s victory?
J R in WV
@cain:
This is a terrible lie, American Anglicans, aka Episcopals, have been solid supporters of gay rights for a very long time. A good friend is an Episcopal Bishop, she would no more support executions in Africa than she would right here.
You are talking about Evangelical Protestants like the Southern Baptists and various Calvinist groups who would be executing gays right here if they could get away with it.
Not Anglicans, which you misspelled in your original post, showing how much you know about religions in America.
Kathleen
gvg
I think the excessive blaming of the purity left for this is incorrect. Far more blame goes to the larger slice of the population that voted for this on purpose. I actually hate them. I’d rather make them shunned, make them aware how much I despise them and hopefully many others join in. They bear a much more direct responsibility and there are more of them. Picking on a small sample of supposed allies that aren’t smacks of picking on the weakest member of the herd, rather than the actual bully. Kicking down.
What I really want is for more of these fuckers to go down for corruption.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
I will be 73 shortly and I was born/raised/have lived most of my life in CA. I have traveled rather extensively, been to Europe, NZ, 46 of the states, lived in OH for 11 yrs. But emigrate, move, hell I live in a senior complex and while I’d like to move I’m not sure this won’t be my home for some time to come. Where am I going to go? I’ve looked into a couple of Central American countries, and while nice it really isn’t a lot cheaper any more. My family any longer is cousins, most of whom live elsewhere, anywhere I move is a start over and at my age that’s beginning to be a lot more difficult, and I’ve done that more than once already.
IOW where would I go, and why? Do I have 20-25 yrs, or less than 5? Over 20 people I knew have passed in the last 22 yrs, easily the majority of them younger than me. I’m not at end of life in any regard but I am on the down slope. I was hoping that battles for rights would be fewer, less stupid, easier. But no, there are far more with their heads up their own asses than ever before. I’ve worked for 60 yrs, just retired less than a year ago, I’m tired of working, I’m tired of being figuratively fucked on a regular basis – and I’m not a women who just had the rug pulled out from underneath them with hurricane force – once again. Anger, I can’t imagine why…. And yes that is snark, maybe not appropriate but that’s the way I roll – and all I’ve got at the moment.
bluefoot
@Kathleen:
Thank you.
I was talking to a friend about this a few weeks ago. I think people (including myself!) despair in part because they don’t see that resistance can happen in other ways besides political. Political and legal changes are necessary for systemic change, but there are ways to bridge the gap. We will need to get creative, and be braver than we want to be, even if it’s just locally, to maintain support and create avenues for access for women’s health.
Ruckus
@MisterDancer:
OK.
I quite possibly may have not read the comment I was responding to correctly and that is not all that unusual today, a lot of people are pissed off. So I will say that if I misunderstood the comment – I am sorry, to Bluefoot and and everyone else. We are all pissed off and we all see things with the tilt of our own lives. I am, as I posed in another comment, older. Most of my life is behind me and I see the same as I suspect a lot do, that something has just been stolen from all of us, more for the female side of the aisle than my side but still, all of us have lost a dramatic piece.
@bluefoot:
I apologize if I came off wrong, badly, forced or misunderstood. My intent is that we all deserve all the same rights. That woman, and people of color have been treated like crap in this country and yesterday it got measurably worse. That we all have to fight as much as we can to be better, myself included.
I am sorry.
Ramona
@Suzanne: This is so True! I have encountered women running a course to promote women entrepreneurs say, “Who is Gloria Steinem?”. One woman invited to speak to our class claimed that her successes had nothing to do with feminism. A woman co-worker in tech who was my age was proud to proclaim she was no feminist and then was reduced to tears by my scalding statement of the debt we owed to brave women who had fought for our equal representation on the job. The most ardent and outspoken male chauvinists I have encountered have been women.
rikyrah
@Immanentize:
I believe Unca Clarence. The others want to keep it quiet until after November. They want to pretend until then.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah:
“Unca Clarence” has shown us who he is. I believe him. Same goes for the other christofascists on the USSC.
Chief Oshkosh
@Felanius Kootea:
I agree that that should happen, but it won’t happen unless it is spelled out for the masses. And I just don’t see that happening with our MSM.
Chief Oshkosh
@Elizabelle: Wasn’t Ornstein considered a conservative not too long ago? Or am I confusing him with someone else?
Miss Bee
@rikyrah: What do you mean by “these young women”? Which women are you talking about?
J R in WV
I’m thinking that Congress should rethink the payroll at the Supreme Court. While clerks and staff should be receiving a competitive salary, the Justices should serve pro bono for the honor of the position. Cut their payroll to fuckin’ ZERO until they understand that they are there to protect rights, not destroy them!
Can you tell I’m pissed yet?
Geminid
@J R in WV: As an alternative, prohibit all outside income. Justices who want to address various conferences pay their own expenses and not take a dime.
Kent
Yeah, that is honestly a real issue. When I was a HS teacher at a big school in Texas, because of the classes I taught I had a lot of prospective D1 athlete types, many of whom were Black. Like 5 or 6 per year. Because they knew I was from the Pacific Northwest I would get questions from kids about places like Boise State, Oregon State, Washington State, etc. when they would be recruited by those schools. And because their local coaches and family were not being honest or impartial.
I would always tell them the same thing. Um, sure. go to Boise State or Washington State if you want to be everyone’s token Black friend and basically only date white girls.
But if you want to actually just be yourself and be part of a community and school where you aren’t the token minority then skip those schools and look at places like UCLA, USC, Georgia Tech, Houston, etc.
Other than Portland and Seattle, the Pacific Northwest isn’t a very diverse place. And even those cities are among the whitest major cities in the country. And what diversity does exist is mostly Hispanic and Asian. I teach at a suburban/urbanish large HS in Vancouver. Student population is about 50% white, 30% Hispanic, and 10% Asian. But there are very few Black students and most of them identify more as multi-racial.