Operatives whose side has lost the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 POTUS elections have opinions about how dumb Democrats are https://t.co/uDfC7uf7i1
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) June 26, 2022
A male journalist talks to other men:
… In conversations with over a half-dozen Republican insiders, who were granted anonymity to discuss the political ramifications frankly, there was a lingering sense of skepticism that abortion would still be a major issue in November and a belief that, even if it is, it might actually redound to the benefit of the GOP.
This wasn’t to say abortion wouldn’t matter in the midterms, but that the issue wouldn’t make a decisive difference at a time when voters have other problems on their minds. “Democrats are going to run on this but they are only going to run on this because they have no other choices this cycle,” one national Republican operative said. “It’s all they have at the end of the day when inflation is high and the economy is sagging.”
A D.C.-based operative noted that “in the immediate few weeks, there will be a lot of outrage as the dust settles, but this is a state-by-state, district-by-district issue.” The operative added that while the Dobbs decision might cause Democratic voters to turn out more heavily in deep-blue areas, there is doubt within GOP circles that this will cause a surge in Democratic voters in Texas or Florida. “People don’t notice abortion on a daily basis,” the operative argued. “They notice how much bacon costs for their kids and how much gas costs to fill up their car.”
There was some sense that the Court’s ruling was “a double-edged sword,” as one social conservative activist acknowledged. “It could help Democrats by reinvigorating them and pumping them up to get angry and turn out in the midterms, that could happen.” But there was also the belief that there are only limited gains to be had in the midterms. As the national operative explained it, “the problem that Democrats have here is that people who really care about abortion and are single-issue pro-choice voters are already all voting Democratic. If you dive into the polling, they are already squeezing every bit of juice out of young college-educated women, who are the group of people most motivated by this.”
And some of the Republicans thought it could actually be a net plus for the GOP in the fall. This was not because of the impact of the issue per se, but a sense that Democrats would turn it into a self-inflicted wound. “Democrats are going to overplay their hand,” one well-connected Republican predicted. “They overplay every hand they get.” The insider thought, for instance, that “there’s going to be violence and [Democrats are] not going to denounce the violence.” Another red-state operative put it more bluntly: The sight of “a bunch of pink-haired women lighting fires in the streets” was not going to motivate moderate pro-choice women to vote for Democrats…
That doesn’t necessarily mean the midterms will be disconnected from the court’s decision, or fail to have an impact on the debate over abortion. “The first elections after Roe are going to determine a lot moving forward,” the social conservative activist suggested, and that might not be a good thing for the Democratic Party. “If the GOP wins huge majorities after the Democrats have made abortion the centerpiece of the midterms, Democrats will have lost so much political influence on this issue.”
Ergo, it’s our job to ensure that the Democrats win huge majorities, thereby highlighting how out-of-touch the Republican party really is…
???? pic.twitter.com/Mp1hWMmBBs
— Wu-Tang Is For The Children (@WUTangKids) June 25, 2022
broke: arguing about which democrat deserves the most blame for republicans overturning roe v. wade
woke: donating to key pro-choice state legislature/governor candidates in swing seats that will be on the front lines protecting reproductive rights
— sam (@sam_d_1995) June 25, 2022
Medium Cool with BGinCHI – Cats!
Winston
There is no way I will not vote for the Democratic slate. I wouldn’t want to ruin my 22 year record of doing that. It’s true I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton. But before that and since. different story
I am a little perplexed about the primary. I tend to favor Nikki Fried.
O. Felix Culpa
While the sea of red in the last tweet is depressing, the link leads to targeted state races where donations could make a difference, something several jackals have asked about. Thanks, AL.
Suzanne
I am considering what I can do for Josh Shapiro. Mastriano is an absolute car crash of a human. Calling him garbage would be a compliment, implying that he at one time served a function.
Spanky
@O. Felix Culpa: Thanks for pointing that out! And ActBlue makes donating quick and easy.
In for a benjamin.
Spanky
@Suzanne: Just had that conversation with my Pennsylvanian sister, but she offered no advice. Keep us posted so I can send ideas her way.
JanieM
From one of the tweets in the post:
Can one of the lawyers around here comment on how Alabama is going to arrest doctors in California if California won’t cooperate? Or are doctors not going to trust blue states to protect them?
I’m sure the current Illegitimate Nine would approve of the modern-day equivalent of fugitive slave laws given half a chance, but that’s a longer-term question.
O. Felix Culpa
@Spanky:
Yay you!
O. Felix Culpa
@JanieM:
Good question.
And let’s not delegitimize Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor. Or Kentanji Brown Jackson, soon to follow. They’re doing yeoman’s work in the face of the Fascist Six.
Mnemosyne
I’m guessing that Republicans are forgetting that time that they put a “heartbeat bill” up for a voter referendum in Mississippi and it lost. In Mississippi.
Forced birth is not nearly as popular as they think, and they’re gonna learn that the hard way in November if we put in the work to make them regret it.
Delk
So why are the only things republicans are talking about are drag queens, gays, trans, library books, CRT… ?
Cheryl
It just floors me that the good old boys think the little ladies are ‘meh’ on the idea of being second class citizens. I guess if you live in your own private information bubble long enough, you’ll believe anything
John Revolta
@Winston: I’m leaning Fried myself but she’s way behind in most of the polls and it looks like we’re gonna get Crist. He claims to have seen a GOP poll that has him ahead of DeSatan by a point…… most polls still show him behind though. It’s gonna be an interesting couple months. I’m really pulling for Val Demings who last I saw (pre-Dobbs) was trailing Marco by six points with 12% undecided…………..
Baud
This is true. But even a small Dem majority would be earth shattering given the conventional wisdom. I do hope we can get at least 52 in the Senate.
John Revolta
@JanieM: Dogg the Bounty Hunter: Abortion Doctor Unit!
sanjeevs
Has anyone read any explanation of why the polling, especially Senate polling was so way off in 2020. Seems like a huge amount of resources were wasted on states that Democrats ended up losing by large margins because the polling indicated otherwise.
Mike E
@Winston: the only Dem candidate for president I didn’t vote for was Dukakis (left that one blank, totally regret that now) which prevents me from saying I have a perfect voting track record. I’ll admit I held my nose and checked Al Gore’s box, his stupidly run campaign of threading the needle/distancing himself from Clinton had me that furious at the time, but never again will I hesitate to vote* for the Dem whomever that will be.
*assuming that I have that opportunity
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud:
From your keyboard to the FSM’s orecchiette.
Percysowner
@JanieM: I’m not a lawyer, so not a legal opinion, but it could limit the travel those doctors make. Florida would extradite in a heartbeat, so no trips to Disney World, although Disneyland would be fine. Now, the red states would have to know the doctors are actually going there, but that is one way that it would put a pall on things. Plus Atlanta is a hub city and Georgia could check warrants and pull people from planes during layovers. No clue if that would actually happen, if it would be constitutional (or at least if the Savage Six would call it constitutional), but those are a couple of ways I can see the Rabid RTLers could enforce their laws.
Mnemosyne
@sanjeevs:
Russian interference.
No, I’m not being paranoid. That is the actual explanation.
ETA: there was literally a story in the FTFNYT about Republican candidates using Russian-provided information against Democratic candidates.
JanieM
@O. Felix Culpa:
Yes, good point, I wrote in haste.
SpaceUnit
I’m not sure the usual midterm dynamics apply anymore.
This is war.
Winston
@John Revolta: I saw that Crist poll too. Well, it’s still early isn’t it? I get 5 emails a day from Demmings asking for money and I have given her some and will some more, but my financial situation is precarious right now. I totaled my car two weeks ago and am still without wheels. If people think gas prices are high, they should check out used cars.
Kent
Democrats are absolutely responsible for the repeal of Roe.
The Democrats in Florida in 2000 who voted for Nader and who didn’t bother voting at all. That gave us Alito and Roberts.
The Democrats who couldn’t be bothered to get out and vote during the 2014 mid-terms which gave the Senate back to McConnell and robbed us of a seat.
The Democrats in PA, MI, and WI in 2016 who voted for Jill fucking Stein or didn’t bother to vote at all because Hillary was icky. That gave us the last three.
Elections have consequences. This is one of them.
Arclite
Overturning Roe is misogynistic, classist, and racist. The misogyny is obvious. The classism is because the wealthy will still have means to obtain the service. The racism because they are disproportionately affected by the ruling.
Baud
@Kent:
Alito, not Scalia.
raven
@Percysowner: Yea, they could figure that out at Hartsfield.
Kent
@Baud: corrected just in time
O. Felix Culpa
@SpaceUnit:
Yes. I wonder if this reactionary Supreme Court will generate a backlash, with much higher Dem voter turnout–and victories–than anticipated. I certainly hope so.
Winston
@Percysowner: Florida is still a free state as far as legal abortions. DeSantis may try to do something about that, but I doubt before November.
Sister Golden Bear
Fuck…. Hearing from friends on the Book of Face that a few minutes ago there was a major fight at San Francisco Civic Center Plaza. Shots were fired and bear spray used on people. Police are shutting down the Pride Celebration — although reportedly the incident happened at 7th and Market, which is outside the official celebration area (which requires metal detectors to enter). May have started in the BART station and spill outside.
Although both the Proud Boys and Patriot Front were nosing around this weekend, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions that they were involved. There have been other incidents in past years — usually in the waning hours of the official celebration — that often involved gang members. (Gang-related shootings were the reason Halloween in the Castro shut down a while back.) Unfortunately, with an event that draws a half-million people there’s gonna assholes with guns.
JanieM
@Percysowner:
This is why I’d like to hear from some lawyers. I don’t see how Alabama can prosecute someone in California for violating an Alabama law while never having set foot in Alabama. How big is the can of worms this would open for any state arresting anyone in any other state, given that state laws about all kinds of things vary widely? That’s for the doctors. As for a woman going out of state for an abortion, these states are (speaking of the fugitive slave law) asserting property/ownership rights in people who happen to live in them.
Seriously? I mean, I know they’re doing it. What happens when they try to pull it off is another question.
SpaceUnit
@O. Felix Culpa:
Also the Jan. 6th hearings, school shootings every week, etc.
This may be a perfect storm.
O. Felix Culpa
@JanieM:
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I think CW punditry is underestimating the backlash.
O. Felix Culpa
@SpaceUnit:
Here’s hoping! Plus organizing, donating, and voting.
Odie Hugh Manatee
This:
is the opposite of what I believe. The right has been using the clarion call of overturning Roe to drive their voters to the polls. Just about everyone who wanted it overturned is already voting Republican. On the flip side I think there were a lot of people who took Roe for granted and opted to do things other than voting on election day. It will be interesting to see who is right here and this fall will be tie first test.
The NY Mag article seems to be crafted to dampen Democratic hopes of an uprising of outrage at the overturning of Roe. “Give up already, there is no hope” seems to be a fairly premature message…lol
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I honestly don’t know. I don’t try to predict voter behavior.
Baud
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I mean, they’re interviewing republican operatives.
Tim C,
@Baud: Yup. The only honest answer right now is “I don’t know” I know what I want, but my confidence at predicting anything died in early November of 2016.
Baud
@JanieM:
Until the Supreme Court changes the rules, a state cannot prosecute someone for conduct occuring out of state.
JanieM
@Baud: Thank you
O. Felix Culpa
The ActBlue campaign to raise money for 15 pro-choice state legislative candidates needs $134 to meet goal. Just sayin’. ;)
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/stateabortionrights
raven
@Baud: But they can say all kinds of stupid shit that scares people.
Splitting Image
Looks like the stenographers are working up to their usual standards. In order to find out how strongly women feel about Roe being overturned, the New York magazine asked “over a half-dozen Republican insiders”, all of them probably men. Unsurprisingly, they all think this is a tempest in a teapot and that the Republican narrative will dominate in November.
Baud
@raven:
Yes. And harass people all sorts of ways.
Mallard Filmore
@Percysowner: And then there is the question of whether a state like California can make out-of-state abortion snitching illegal.
Suzanne
“Resentment and a sense of inferiority” hits the nail on the head.
Goodness, I will do all I can to make them feel even worse.
Just signed up to volunteer for Josh Shapiro’s campaign.
Baud
@Suzanne:
HumboldtBlue
Funny thread
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud: True, but given the current GQP, there’s probably a prosecutor who will say, “let’s just do it and be legends” — and who wants to be the subject of a test case that goes to the SCOTUS.
I mean, yes such a case ought to be automatically dismissed, but with the Calvinball Court, it’s possible lower-level judges will also decide to also toss aside precedent like Justice Kavanaugh’s beer cans. If nothing else the possibility that they might do so could be problematic.
Kay
This is what political people say when they think an issue is bad for them- if the issue is good for them they insist it’s national and if it’s not they insist it’s localized.
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
Agreed.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
Yay you! Mastriano is a dumpster fire. It looks like Shapiro is leading by 3% at this point, which is nice, but more would be way better. :)
Wyatt Salamanca
Sarah Huckabee Sanders is trying to overtake MTG and Boebert in the stupidity sweepstakes
h/t https://www.mediaite.com/news/whos-gonna-tell-her-sarah-huckabee-sanders-untimely-abortion-metaphor-ignites-social-media/
Baud
@Wyatt Salamanca:
I saw that earlier. Sometimes I wonder if they do it on purpose for the exposure.
cintibud
@Wyatt Salamanca: She probably wants to make it legal for fetuses to buy guns
Matt McIrvin
@O. Felix Culpa: Not any more it doesn’t.
Random Commenter
@JanieM: they can’t. They could issue an arrest warrant in Alabama and try to get California to recognize it but Cali could tell them to piss off. If that provider ever set foot in Alabama or another friendly state though they could arrest there. Whether the actual prosecution wouldn’t be tossed out for lack of jurisdiction is a separate matter.
Kay
@Wyatt Salamanca:
It grosses me out how they all say “in the womb”. As if “the womb” is somehow apart from the adult woman walking around with it. It woild be best for me if they would stop talking about my “womb” completely, really. Up until last week it wasn’t state property.
Mallard Filmore
@Baud:
I have never seen a TV police show where a killing in, say, New York, was prosecuted in Ohio. The closest I have seen is in “The Closer” or “Major Crimes” where a Mexican citizen was murdered in Los Angeles and the perp extradited.
frosty
@Suzanne: Let me know what you find out. I have been very frustrated with PA Dem GOTV. Every campaign is separate! I had to get Biden stuff from one office and Congress from another.
O. Felix Culpa
@Matt McIrvin:
Woot!
Baud
@Kay:
The womb is the classroom, and the woman is the gunman. Follow along.
Alison Rose
@JanieM: Even if somehow it became nigh impossible for wealthy people to obtain abortions in other states, the GOP won’t be able to target doctors in other countries. Canada is right over yonder, for anyone with money to get there.
Suzanne
@frosty: ….isn’t it normal that every campaign is separate?
Plz remember that I am from Arizona, where everything is a disorderly, underfunded mess. BUT HEY LOW TAXES.
AxelFoley
@Spanky:
All about the Benjamins, baby!
Alison Rose
@Wyatt Salamanca: Good lord. I suppose this is the kind of thing one says when one’s IQ is smaller than their jeans size.
Brachiator
The issue of reproductive rights is not going away. It will be an issue at the midterms. It will be an issue in 2024. And obviously abortion is also about economics.
Some voting data from 2020.
Democrats need to help young women vote, especially college age women and lower income women, including women of color, who may have difficulty getting to polling places because of transportation issues, jobs, families, etc.
Starfish
Megan Thee Stallion is not old enough to be President in 2024, but I am going to write her name in anyway.
AxelFoley
@JanieM:
Nah, Illegitimate Six. Place blame squarely where it belongs.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
Some state parties organize what’s called a “coordinated campaign.” All the party’s candidates plus the state party contribute, and the organizing and GOTV are for the entire slate, top to bottom. The coordinated campaign hires professional organizers, usually assigned to various regions of the state, and volunteers work for one big effort, namely all the Dems, rather than being splintered among many individual campaigns. This approach has worked well for us in NM.
ETA: Individual candidates are still free to do their own campaigning, fundraising, literature outreach, etc., in addition to supporting the coordinated campaign.
raven
@Alison Rose : In her case that’s pretty damn big!
Bill Arnold
@Wyatt Salamanca:
[satire!]
Lockheed, Raytheon to develop fetal body armor – Q3 earnings begin at conception. (Jun 25, 2022)
Steeplejack
@O. Felix Culpa:
I had that same reaction for a moment, but then I remembered all of those “land doesn’t vote” maps. Not saying we don’t have a big job ahead, but we shouldn’t let ourselves get intimidated by an illusory “sea of red.”
Kay
@Baud:
I saw another one of these anti-choice snoops was weighing in on women “taking in semen” or something. Can they make an attempt to stay out of other peoples business? I feel like I should check my shrubbery see if one of them is crouched down in there, gathering evidence for a report to authorities.
Mallard Filmore
@Starfish: I have heard that you are really voting for the electors, not the candidate. If you do make a protest vote like this please get expert help on how to do it effectively.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sister Golden Bear: Update is that apparently there wasn’t shooting outside SF Pride, although apparently bear spray may have been used by the combatants during the fight. Rumint is that people were also lighting off M80s, which may be why there were initial reports of a shooting. Police still shut down Pride early because of the scare.
Baud
@Kay:
It’s a jobs program.
@Sister Golden Bear:
Relatively good news.
Starfish
@Mallard Filmore: Okay, but do I have to move to Texas to write her in as governor?
frosty
@Suzanne: Sure, but they could do a coordinated campaign for door hangers and canvassing. I picked up a Union one lying on the ground in 2020 and every candidate was listed. PADEMs don’t do that.
ETA or what O. Felix said in #71
Dan B
@raven: IQ under 50 is really “something”. I believe my cat is close to 50.
O. Felix Culpa
@Sister Golden Bear:
Good news about no shooting. In the current climate, I can see why the police might shut down Pride, just to be safe. There were apparently threats against our little Santa Fe Pride parade and the cops were out in force. Thankfully nothing untoward happened and we had a great time.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: I am still adjusting to the political climate here. It’s interesting being in a place with a stronger Democratic Party and just more awareness and engagement in general. Sheeeet, my neighbors put up yard signs for even the small races, like judgeships. I get canvassed and petitioned all the time. And the candidates and representatives come out to our community meetings. It’s weird. I don’t think any of my neighbors in AZ could have named a single one of their elected officials other than the governor.
Of course, two snowflakes land on the ground and the outcry on the neighborhood Facebook and Nextdoor pages is staggering. “I’m calling the councilman! Why does my street always get plowed last?!”
Suzanne
@Kay:
Oh for fuck’s sake.
My contempt knows no bounds.
prostratedragon
@Wyatt Salamanca: Does she realize how useful that statement could be?
Doug R
May I remind EVERYONE that although it is very common for the House to swing during midterms, it has ACTUALLY swung the OTHER way THREE times in modern history.
Once was 2002, right after a huge national trauma.
2018 was the biggest turnout for a midterm in 104 years, Democrats made historic gains that would have been even bigger were it not for 2010. 2020 redistricting looks pretty even actually.
Don’t want to jinx it, but I like the chances.
Matt McIrvin
@O. Felix Culpa: “just to be safe”… a nice mechanism, that heckler’s veto. The cops will come out in force to make sure the Proud Boys are protected, though.
TheTruffle
It looks as if Friday’s ruling was a game changer and it hasn’t sunk in yet for the dudes interviewed. People are livid over this. Politico has an article about how Republicans in swing districts are feeling the heat.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/26/republicans-biden-abortion-roe-00042371
sab
@schrodingers_cat: I had a long talk with my daughter-in-law, who is normally completely apolitical. She is beyond furious, to the point where won’t won’t stop ranting about it. She is Catholic. She is about 40, and had four miscarriages, two of which required a d&c. She feels Ohio’s trigger bill would have endangered her life. Her sister wants another child, but is afraid to risk another difficult pregancy with the Ohio trigger law.
DIL is determined to have the abortion discussion with every apolitical friend she has ( and she has lots of them), and she is willing to lose long-time friends if they have a problem with her doimg this.
Kent
@JanieM: Two can play that game. California could pass a law authorizing anyone who steps foot in California to sue anyone in another state who interferes in any way with their right to full reproductive rights. Say $500,000 damages. Etc. Just like the TX bounty law. Except bounty on any red state fuckers who try to interfere with reproductive rights in CA. Apply it to cops, DAs and anyone else trying to enforce their dipshit laws in CA, or on anyone visiting CA.
I’m sure there is some way to structure such a law to make it legal and scare off any red state fuckers from messing with CA rights.
geg6
@frosty:
That’s weird. I can get any candidate signs I want from Beaver County Democrats. I have Shapiro, Fetterman, Deluzio (new 17th district for House) and Rob Matzie (state house) signs all ready for planting come fall. All I had to do was stop in and ask. Maybe it’s just that way where you live.
Mallard Filmore
@Starfish: Sorry, I thought you meant president. All other write-ins should work as expected.
frosty
@O. Felix Culpa: NM does it right. One of my friends in ABQ is in charge of getting all the voters in her turf out. PA? Every campaign is brand new, start from scratch, go canvass this suburb today.
I’ve heard the problem stems from the days when Dems relied on unions for GOTV and without them they’re still learning.
But I’ve been doing this since 2004 and it’s still the same. Arrrggghh!!!
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
Hehe! The snowflake complaints remind me of Chicago. Mayor Bilandic lost reelection in 1979 because he failed to make sure the streets were promptly and properly plowed after a blizzard.
I hear you about adjusting to a different political climate in a new state. I NEVER met so much as an alderman in Illinois, but have come to know many of the top political honchos in NM. Maybe because it’s like a geographically large small town? We also have an active Democratic Party in our county and a population large enough to help swing statewide races, so the politicos reach out to us.
Tony G
@JanieM: Maybe the problem is that most people — doctors included — are not heroes. Some doctors in “blue states” will stop performing abortions just because they’re afraid. Those doctors could and should be boycotted. What a mess.
kalakal
@O. Felix Culpa: I hope so too.
What I think is really going to intensify and maintain a backlash is the vindictive malevolence of the GOP spread throughout state legislatures. They won’t be able to help themselves, they’ll be in hog heaven making life hell for their victims, gloating in having the full weight of the law on their side. It may appeal to the MAGAs but I suspect full bore, triumphant authoritarianism in action will repulse far more people than it attracts
Kay
I am so, so glad there is video of huge disgusting crybaby Rudy Guiliani getting tapped on the back by the supermarket employee.
I get that it is technically an assault but if the prosecutor is dumb enough to charge the supermarket employee should take that right to a jury. What a joke.
If there hadn’t have been video Guiliani would have lied his ass off, as he has done every day for the last 5 years.
Brachiator
@JanieM:
@Baud:
A guess. The Taliban Justices on the Supreme Court seem to be using originalism to grant states absolute power over residents. The justices also deny any right to privacy. So look for all kinds of new ways to investigate women’s behavior to see if they might be trying to get abortions. This will include search and seizure of smart phones.
Also remember that some of these new laws encourage lawsuits and fines levied against anyone who helps a woman get an abortion. And “anyone who helps” can be defined loosely. So even if authorities cannot go after the woman directly, they can try to go after anyone who provided assistance.
Geminid
@Odie Hugh Manatee: This sounds like very wishful thinking on the part of those Republicans, almost like they are whistling past the graveyard. I suspect this isn’t the way some of them talk in private.
Or maybe it is. The party’s voters and politicians have been steadily sliding downhill, so why wouldn’t its political pros decay also?
Starfish
@Mallard Filmore: The way she had that crowd going, she is bringing more energy to the fight than a lot of people.
geg6
@Suzanne:
Welcome to PA! Especially Western PA. Especially the city of Pittsburgh. You’ll know when you’ve been assimilated when you find yourself bitching about the road crews.
thisismyonlinenym
@Sister Golden Bear: Violence at protests is exactly what the right wants this summer. They are praying for it.
And I have no doubt they have agents provocateur agitating for it.
Edit:
This is also an outcome they want. So easy to toss a few firecrackers.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I don’t know either but every woman knows someone who has had a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy and needed medical procedure that is now been banned.
frosty
@geg6: Signs, yes. Canvassing, no. I’ve started reminding people about down ballot races even though it’s not on the script.
This time could be different with Fetterman and Shapiro though. They’re pretty tight.
sdhays
@JanieM: I think the premise is wrong/overly complicated. Yes, rich white women who want to choose to have an abortion will be able to find a way. Red states making it illegal will make it harder, but being rich and white will make those problems manageable, at least enough for rich white women to delude themselves if they want. If nothing else, they can simply not go back to their red state home. That’s part of the privilege of being rich.
But rich white women with wanted pregnancies who develop complications and need to “abort” a dead fetus will simply die while physicians wring their hands and say there’s nothing they can do. They’re not going to get emergency services to a state that legally considers them fully human beings, and they may not have time to go commercially. Being rich and white may ensure access to the best medical care, but if the best medical care is illegal, being rich and white won’t save you.
Even if you’re rich and white, you’re still a woman, and red states are making it illegal to treat you, even in the case of your imminent death, because you’re not legally fully human in their eyes.
Martin
Josh has nailed the framing:
The next Congress will pass a national abortion law. Voters have to decide which one gets passed.
Mallard Filmore
@Brachiator:
https://www.torproject.org/download/
Leaves behind no history, no cookies, no ISP drippings. Spread the word.
Winston
This abortion announcement surely changed the narrative from the J6 hearings, but it won’t be forgotten. When the J6 hearings pick back up the narrative will change back. I think there are a lot of issues favoring Dems in November. We shall see. But we also need to be pounding them as much as possible.
Ksmiami
@SpaceUnit: full on. And Coney Barrett is mine at the end….
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
The issue will never go away because reproduction will never go away. But if Democrats cannot turn it into a major defeat for Republicans this November, they never will. Abortion rights will go in the folder with the other things they talk about but never do anything about.
If voters are going to make a calculation like “abortion rights, sure, but the price of gas” or inflation or COVID or anything, then abortion rights is done. There will be a “but the” issue every time.
This issue right now calls for an immediate & massive organization drive to get people who agree with us to vote. From the largest organizations to our own circle of friends, this has to be an all out & all in campaign.
CaseyL
I will give money as I can; I may do postcards.
But disgust with my species and my fellow Americans has reached such a point that I really don’t want increased direct contact with either one, except for the people I already know and cherish.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
Mainstream punditry is rigid and stupid. They think about and report most stories using the same template.
I don’t usually watch the PBS News Hour. But I caught the clip where 2 pundits talk about the news of the day. This was Friday and the topic was the Supreme Court decision. Judy Woodruff interviewed a guy from I forget and a Washington Post columnist.
I immediately wondered,why is she talking to two men? And why is she pretending to be cool and objective? Doesn’t this decision affect her and her family? Doesn’t she have some opinion about her rights being taken away?
The discussion was about as pointless as I suspected it might be.
geg6
@frosty:
You need a grassroots organization like ours, Beaver County Voice for Change. We work closely with both Beaver County Blue and Beaver County Democrats. Everybody works together. The coalition was born during Obama’s runs, became fully mature during Lamb’s first run. It wasn’t always easy (and sometimes still isn’t) but at least we all, volunteers, campaign and party pros and candidates, all work together. We don’t agree on everything but, at this point, we are all aware of the stakes. I had no idea these coalitions working together are not happening elsewhere in the state.
Ksmiami
@TheTruffle: to the mat with these assholes.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: @Kay:
That is just gross.
On a more positive note, the ActBlue pro-choice state legislative candidate campaign has exceeded goal! Thank you to AL and all Jackals and others who supported it.
I have no direct skin in that fundraiser, but in NM we worked first to flip our state legislature blue, and then to repeal an old law on state books criminalizing abortion. Took us six years, but we got it done, just in time. State legislatures, governors, AGs, Secretaries of State, etc. really, really matter.
ETA: Another thing accomplished through our Democratic state trifecta was free higher education for all students pursuing a career training certificate, associate degree, or bachelor’s degree. No student debt for a college degree!
James E Powell
@frosty:
True. Getting personnel to work long hours for no pay isn’t easy. Everyone feels like it should be done, but someone else should do it.
Suzanne
@CaseyL: I don’t think I can bear to canvass any more. We had an incident where a dude threatened to shoot us. I think I’ll stick to phone calls and postcards moving forward.
Kay
@Suzanne:
This is how the Right wing busybodies talk all the time now- your womb, your uterus, intake of semen.
They not only want to be peering over the providers shoulder at your medical exam and spying on and then ratting out their neighbors, they also demand entry into your bedroom to monitor semen intake. Why is it so hard for conservatives to mind their own business? I mean, Jesus Christ. Don’t they have enough on their plates given that 25% of their Party are violent, deranged insurrectionists?
Kayla Rudbek
@sab: yeah, lapsed Catholic here and the only thing stopping me from making an appointment for a tubal ligation now is that I’m probably too old to need one now and I should let a younger woman take the surgery time instead. If I were 5-10 or more years younger, I would definitely get my tubes tied.
Martin
@sdhays: Yeah, some state will make it a felony to seek an abortion out of state. For women in those states, a pregnancy complication – an ectopic pregnancy forces a decision between being a felon and dying. Your only recourse will be to leave the state and never return. Money doesn’t buy you out of that one.
A lot of ectopic pregnancies are discovered in the ER when there is no time, and the patient in no condition to travel to another state. The state is making it clear the doctors are supposed to just watch you die. Money doesn’t buy you out of that scenario either, but at least finding it during an ultrasound allows you to live.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
They lean Republican and the template & vocabulary they use are almost invariably provided by Republicans.
Kay
@Suzanne:
I don’t feel comfortable telling people to canvass anymore. Too many guns in this county, too many gun nuts just dying to use one, and too many insanely angry Trumpsters. I think it’s too dangerous to go door to door in conservative areas.
Suzanne
@sdhays: The line about “everyone knows that a rich white woman will always be able to get an abortion” is also overlooking the fact that the GOP absolutely wants white women to have more babies. This is linked to the Great Replacement. The socons are contemptuous of women who don’t have lots of kids, especially married white women.
thisismyonlinenym
@JanieM:
I’d think it’ll be a big can of worms. Asserting property rights in people in non-slave states was a big impetus that propelled the country to civil war.
Fuck me if it isn’t the same goddamn kind of people with the same goddamned religious bullshit and the same goddamned insistence to do what they want with other people’s autonomy.
stinger
From the OP:
The “national operative” underestimates the level of outrage and determination of postmenopausal women, who have living memory of the bad old Before Times. And who often have daughters and granddaughters they are determined to protect.
Kent
We had the fake MAGA elections fraud canvassers come by not long ago. I would have damn near shot their asses had I owned a gun. These assholes.
https://www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com/local/people-going-door-to-door-in-washington-state-claiming-to-be-election-officials-are-frauds/article_5b455fa6-c569-11ec-978d-9f337dcb0301.html
Brachiator
@James E Powell:
RE: The issue of reproductive rights is not going away. It will be an issue at the midterms. It will be an issue in 2024.
I don’t do prophecy. But as I told my sister, I think this is the first time in my life where I have watched a branch of the federal government take a right away.
And this Supreme Court is feeling Frisky. They are very much in tune with Republicans and extreme right wingers who not only believe that everything was better in the good old days, they believe that they government has a duty to bring back the good old days.
This vile Supreme Court decision may really resemble the Dred Scott decision. Instead of ruling narrowly, that Court sought to solve too much and also overreached and decided that black people in the United States had no rights at all.
This Supreme Court does not seem to care what chaos their decisions might bring about. They are having too much fun correcting past errors.
No one can say how this will turn out.
H.E.Wolf
High-five, former postcarding co-conspirator! :-)
For anyone who’s writing –or planning to write – GOTV postcards: prices go up July 10th. If you buy “forever” postcard (and first class) stamps before that date, you can use them… forever.
Kay
@stinger:
I agree. If anything I think actual pro choice VOTERS might be more older women just because older people vote more reliably.
The article reads defensive to me- like the reporter got snookered into just repeating their denials that the issue might matter. They don’t sound confident.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
That’s fair. We want our volunteers to not only feel, but be safe. Even in the before times, we would counsel canvassers to use the buddy system and not go anywhere that seemed unsafe. Nowadays, I’ll do postcards and help with data. It’s too bad because I enjoyed speaking with people in person. They were much more welcoming at the door than over the phone.
Urban Suburbanite
@Suzanne:
I cannot bring myself to have Nextdoor on my phone again. If it’s not dumbass vigilante fantasies, it’s constant hysterics about homeless people and demanding they be put in concentration camps.
geg6
@stinger:
This.
Matt McIrvin
Been seeing a lot of political memes giving people advice for demonstrations, supporting abortion access where it’s illegal, etc. that use euphemisms like “camping” for abortion or “enthusiastic walk” for a demo, obfuscating things to the point where the memes are actually difficult to understand. I guess it may have come to that, maybe we do need to talk that way to keep goons from busting down the door. But the messages are getting lost.
Honus
@Delk: who feeds their kids large amounts of bacon these days? Probably the guy who left his F250 running in the parking for the 30 minutes i was in the grocery store today. Yeah, inflation and high fuel prices are a real hardship to these working class patriots.
frosty
@geg6: I haven’t heard of any grassroots orgs here. I know York County Democrats but that’s it.
OFA in 2008 was amazing, clearly the work of a former community organizer. But it and the workers all disappeared after the campaign. In my view anyway.
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
Rich women are not going to have more children than they want. Period.
More middle class and lower income women may die from pregnancy complications, especially if Republicans pass laws that will interfere with medical decisions that a woman might need to make.
And of course Republicans won’t care that women might not have health insurance.
geg6
@Matt McIrvin:
No they are not. Many of my former students have seen my posts like this and have thanked me. They aren’t stupid.
Kay
@Kent:
It changed for me after 2020. The Trump people were really aggressive. Right on your ass in the big stupid trucks gunning the engine with those giant flags, whole caravans of them honking horns through town. They “slow rolled” a two lane state highway – traffic was crawling behind them for miles and law enforcement are sympathetic to them or actually members of the cult so they didn’t do shit to protect normal people.
I’m not sending anyone up to their doors. They’re all armed to the teeth and looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
thisismyonlinenym
@Kay:
Not just door to door. The trumper hate poison and barely restrained violence is now in schools too.
My middleschool age son was threatened several times at school a few months ago by some other students for wearing a mask. One kid told my son that he was a Lib because he was wearing a mask, and that they need to kill all the Libs. That was their little code word, KAL. Kill all the Libs.
We got the Principal involved, he found out this had indeed happened several times and other students had heard this happen. The kid was suspended. But my son says that wasn’t the only kid doing that.
Their kids are picking up the eliminationist hate and rhetoric from their shitty Trumper parents and carrying it into schools.
So yeah it is too dangerous to go door to door in some communities.
Suzanne
@Honus:
The same people who shared the meme about inflation raising their grocery bill and the picture was of $200 worth of Mountain Dew, Cheetos, cookies, and frozen pizza?
TheTruffle
@Mnemosyne: I hope you are correct about this. Admittedly I could see things going two ways:
frosty
@Suzanne: I guess I’ll give canvassing another go, but lord it’s hard on an introvert.
Nelle
@frosty: I’m in charge of getting out the Democratic vote in my neighborhood. We got twice weekly updates of who had turned in absentee ballots so I would go to those who hadn’t and check if they intended to vote in person on Election Day or what. I think some voted just so they wouldn’t have to see me. 100% of registered D’s in my turf, as we call them, voted in 2020.
O. Felix Culpa
@Matt McIrvin:
Good point.
geg6
@frosty:
The organizers left here, too. But we locals learned a ton from them and have been at it ever since. You can start your own group, you know. That’s how ours happened.
Suzanne
@Brachiator:
No, they aren’t, but the GOP dudes who are forcing this on us all are not doing so with an “out” in mind. Rich women will figure this shit out without the men in their lives.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
All the major food groups!
BlueGuitarist
@Suzanne:
@Kay:
Also residents can be nervous about having someone knock on their door. The last time I canvassed a very red area, several registered Ds nervously asked me to leave quickly before their neighbors saw.
Another canvassing anecdote: after disconcerting interaction with jerk with chainsaw, guy came to the door wearing a vest with local gun club logo, and asked which party? And then: “good, because I’m never voting for a Republican again.”
O. Felix Culpa
@Nelle:
Heh. Once voting has started, we tell people ever so nicely that the best way to get no more calls, door knocks, texts, etc. from us is to vote. Then they fall off our lists and we move on to other
victimsvotersETA: Great turnout in your turf! A+
Sister Golden Bear
@thisismyonlinenym: Yes, violence at Pride is what the Right wants. Is the case here, probably not.
I suspect it’s same thing that’s happened in past years when straight dudes who’ve been drinking all day — because they view Pride as a rainbow version of Drinko De Mayo where you can get hammered outside — start shit with each other that ends up in a fight.
frosty
@geg6: “Dammit, geg6, I’m an engineer, not an organizer!”
Good advice and it’s a good route forward, just not for me. Maybe we can find someone to get this started.
Suzanne
@BlueGuitarist: I have a few stories like that. My favorite houses were the ones where someone had never voted before and I got to help them with their voting plan.
Arizona has the PEVL (permanent early voter list) and a lot of our efforts were getting people on that, which is why they have such a high percentage of vote-by-mail.
Steeplejack
@Winston:
Re used car prices: No joke! I get periodic “vehicle updates” on the doughty K-Whip from Carfax (I have no idea why), and the “trade-in value” has gone from $2,600 in June 2020 to $3,600 a year ago to $5,000 a week ago. It’s an average 2009 Kia Rondo; biggest plus is low mileage: ≈ 70,000.
dww44
@Mike E: I first voted for LBJ in 64 and have voted for every Dem Presidential nominee since. Never had any qualms about voting for any of them. Also, I guess I am Indeed old. And today I kinda feel like it after being in the yard all day. But tomorrow I will be less tired.
Sister Golden Bear
@Martin: I’ll just note that some states have already made illegal for parents of trans kids to get necessary healthcare in other states (because it’s banned in the state where they live). IIRC it carries a 10-year sentence
Canaries, coal mines.
H.E.Wolf
@frosty:
“I guess I’ll give canvassing another go, but lord it’s hard on an introvert.”
This introvert writes postcards. Slowly (as in: slow like a snail).
And with each one, I say to myself: Revenge is a dish best served cold. :)
There are loads of great GOTV postcard groups – I like PostcardsToVoters.org, because they provide the verbiage, and it’s generally a max of 3 sentences.
Another introvert option is to volunteer for data entry. They will *love* you.
Alison Rose
@Urban Suburbanite: Sounds like we have similar neighbors.
frosty
@H.E.Wolf: I’ve done postcards too. Not much need for data entry any more though. With the MiniVAN app I enter the data in the field as it’s collected.
Suzanne
@Sister Golden Bear: If we are now punishing Americans for engaging in interstate commerce, we truly are no longer a country and I’m no longer interested in paying taxes to be distributed to those states.
Redshift
@O. Felix Culpa: Yeah, a coordinated campaign is one of the big improvements in Virginia since the start of my time in politics. Candidates do their own fundraising, advertising, etc, but if you’re volunteering for canvassing and phone banking, you’re doing it for all the candidates. It’s sooo much better.
Also the VA Dems clamped down on access to their voter file, so now to get access campaigns are obligated to send back the voter information they collect in return. In the past campaigns (especially losing campaigns) would just shut down and take their info with them.)
Redshift
@JanieM:
I doubt criminal charges for out of state actions are going to fly, but what about Texas-style laws allowing citizens to sue? I don’t know of those would work interstate either, but I could imagine there might be more doctors who wouldn’t risk it.
moops
Hopefully Russian sanctions and high levels of scrutiny will prevent Putin from handing over financing to GOP politicians and PACS.
moops
As the stupid NYT article demonstrates, there will be many “victims” with standing to bring the law and the courts against women that seek out of state abortions. Roe was as much about privacy and right to person and body as the specific act of abortion. Men are going to start asserting their “rights” over women and demand the laws and the courts give them more power.
O. Felix Culpa
@Redshift:
Good point about the voter files. That was our experience too.
Redshift
@Kay: That sucks. I can’t argue with people staying safe, but of course it’s part and parcel of violent right wing extremism to make people afraid to participate in civic life.
I feel fortunate that conditions in my area aren’t like that, but that’s also because my area is now solidly Democratic. The places we need people knocking on doors are the places they’re making dangerous.
Gretchen
There’s an abortion vote in Kansas on August 2. Republicans tried to slip a constitutional amendment to allow regulating ( or banning) abortion into a low turnout primary election. Then this happened. I had to wait in line in the crowded Democratic Party office on Friday to pick up some Vote No signs, there were so many pissed off women. Everybody’s talking about it in this blue Kansas City suburb, including the young people. I hope we send a message.
Suzanne
J.D. Vance is getting his ass kicked on Twitter. He tweeted “If your worldview tells you that it’s bad for women to become mothers but liberating for them to work 90 hours a week in a cubicle at the New York Times or Goldman Sachs, you’ve been had.”
So then he got a response, “Your wife Usha Chilukuri Vance—the liberated mother of your three children—is an associate at Munger, Tolles & Olson who leads m “complex civil litigation and appeals in a wide variety of sectors, including higher ed, government, entertainment and tech””.
Have I mentioned how much I hate these people?
Steeplejack
@Wyatt Salamanca:
So . . . not safe at all? Not sure the Huckabeast makes the point she thinks she is.
H.E.Wolf
@frosty:
Hooray for MiniVAN! It’s been a boon to canvassers.
The Truffle
@schrodingers_cat: I have been hopeful about that. Also hopeful that we can reverse this in 5-10 years, tops.
Lyrebird
Yes indeed. I think they are either whistling past the graveyard or actively trying to distract… Welp, I would be interested to see the ActBlue totals from this weekend.
Let’s give ’em a midterm surprise or three… per state!
Martin
@Sister Golden Bear: This is why the military is having to draw down bases in some states – soldiers with transgender kids have to transfer to bases in other states.
I don’t think the red states quite understand the economic toll this is going to take on them. But they seem to understand that driving the liberals out of those states just further cements their hold on the electoral college.
Gretchen
@Suzanne: i was canvassing for Sharice David’s in Kansas but while I was at it they gave me literature to leave on the governors and other races and told me to encourage people to vote for them all. Sharice and Governor Kelly both won!
Eolirin
@Martin: Right, that’s exactly it. The economic damage isn’t ever going to compel a change because making a place terrible to live in and thus encouraging all the reasonable people who can get out to leave cements their grasp on power locally, never mind the EC.
Impoverishing their base only helps them. People are more angry, more hopeless, more spiteful and they’re already primed to put all the blame on the other.
The only thing we have going for is is that they don’t actually have enough control over enough states yet. And haven’t been able to trash all of the places they do have control. This tactic doesn’t really work as well in Texas as it does in Oklahoma. Anywhere cities are seeing decent growth we have a chance to eventually reverse things.
Suzanne
@Martin:
I am all about turning red states into poor backwaters. I will do my part.
Kristine
The thread may be winding down, but Cindy Otis (ex-CIA analyst/disinfo specialist/author) reposted a great thread about how to handle the deluge of news–first tweet below. I know it may seem obvious but sometimes you need someone to tell you it’s okay to walk away for a bit and pet the dog.
Kristine
@H.E.Wolf: A friend of mine does postcards. She really enjoys it.
It sounds like my speed. I really do need to sign up.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: Better to turn them into thriving blue states in the long run. Just wish that was more possible.
frosty
@Kristine: Thanks for the link. I’m going to forward this … and I think I’ll take her advice, sign off now, and read some fiction.
James E Powell
@Eolirin:
Arizona & Georgia are bluer than we dreamed possible even four years ago. We have the better policies, we are the better people. We can keep them on our side.
prostratedragon
@Kristine: I checked it out and found that I’d bookmarked it when it first ran. Plenty good advice there.
Cultural displacement, accent on My:
Gretchen
@Suzanne: Im in a blue part of Kansas and would rather convert the rest of the state.
Felanius Kootea
Almost dead thread but another consequence I hadn’t thought of is that this decision is going to affect medical school (LCME) and residency (ACGME) accreditation in red states.
A fourth year medical student in Ohio reported on Twitter that her family planning elective was just canceled because of Ohio’s 6 week medical ban. She’s scrambling, looking to complete it in another state that doesn’t have the ban.
Ob/Gyn residents in red states will have similar problems. The training for handling some miscarriages (D&C) is the same as for an elective abortion and the training for handling an ectopic pregnancy is also an abortion. I don’t know how accrediting bodies will handle medical schools/teaching hospitals and residency programs that can no longer teach skills required for accreditation. Possibly shipping trainees to CA, IL, or NY for certain rotations. What a mess this is going to be.
Nettoyeur
@Martin: It will be national news when doctors and a hospital in some red state let a woman bleed to death from an ectopic pregnancy due to state law, and her family, backed pro bono by ACLU, PP and the AMA etc takes the docs, hospital and state to court for wrongful death. It will be take years, it will be horrible, and many other women will die in the process, but it will blow up, expensively, in the faces of these idiots. In the meantime, I urge people of childbearing age to do everything they can to avoid living in the craziest states. I live in TN, which was once more or less reasonable, but is now nuts. I will retire soon. As a senior leader, I am supposed to recruit and mentor my successors, but will privately tell applicants not to come here, it’s risking the lives of their families’ women and girls. In some cases they may be able to work remotely from a safe state. My guess is that the inability of TN companies to recruit leading talent (most of which comes from out of state…..Bible thumping Trumpers don’t much like critical thinking) will abort much promising high tech development in TN. Education and the medical system will deteriorate as well, taking the state back to its poor, ignorant, white supremacist past. My wife and I will likely take our money and retire to a blue state or overseas. The big question for the US is whether this Dark Age wave swamps the whole country.
H.E.Wolf
@Kristine:
@Kristine:
“A friend of mine does postcards. She really enjoys it.
It sounds like my speed. I really do need to sign up.”
The great thing about it (note: I can only speak from my experience with PostcardsToVoters.org) is that you can try it once and if it’s not your cup of tea, you can bail out after the first small number (I think 4 is their minimum). And if you like it, you can continue doing whatever quantity suits you best, at a pace that works for you.
There are folks out there who do amazingly huge numbers of cards, with elaborate artwork – and there are folks like me who contribute on a very small scale, writing very plain cards. It’s all helpful, no matter what!
Mnemosyne
@Nettoyeur:
I mean, I hope so. In Ireland, the death of Savita Halappanavar convinced people to vote in favor of a referendum to legalize abortion.
But in the US, unless it’s exactly the “right” victim — a white, blonde, middle-class housewife with small children who are left without a mother — the right wing will be able to rationalize it away. Hell, they’ll be able to do that no matter what, so we probably shouldn’t count on a case like that making any difference.
livewyre
What bugs me about the positive mention of turning states red isn’t just the adjacency to secession (both exceedingly unlikely and vastly destructive), but that it smacks of “the worse the better”. Let them take over, let it burn, build again from the ashes – if there are even any left.
Accelerationism is enough of a temptation that it can serve to radicalize others in favor of “temporarily” supporting fascism, especially if they don’t have any distinguishing attributes that might put them at particular risk. That inclines me to be more than a little wary around it.
Yutsano
Waitaminute…THAT’S what Rudy called an assault? Really? That’s barely a love tap!
Felanius Kootea
@Mnemosyne: When Missisisippi’s voters rejected the 2011 personhood amendment to the MS constitution (AKA life begins at fertilization), it was by a margin of 58% to 41%. I don’t think even a majority of conservative voters are where the Supreme Court is at. We’ll know for sure this fall.
prostratedragon
@Yutsano: Like this man, maybe? Stay yourself, Rudy, I’d be lost otherwise.
frosty
@Mnemosyne: If D&Cs were illegal many years back my brother and I would both be widowers.
frosty
@Yutsano: And “scumbag!” That’s a term of endearment in New York!
Citizen Alan
@Mike E:
At the time, I just couldn’t bring myself to vote Gore/Lieberman. I was in Mississippi, so it hardly mattered either way. But between Gore’s pro-death penalty stance, Tipper’s censorship campaign, and Lieberman being awful in pretty much every way, I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. In retrospect, though, I wish I’d just stayed home instead of voting for Nader, which I now consider the greatest embarrassment of my life.
Citizen Alan
@Kent: I will say this: Democrats back in 2000 were not responsible for Alito and Roberts. Osama bin Laden was. The day before 9/11, Bush’s approval rating was underwater, and he made it through his first term without a SCOTUS vacancy. I think he’d have lost in 2004 without the “rally around the flag” effect. Honestly, I’m amazed at how close Kerry came to winning.
Gvg
@Tony G: Doctors are mostly a part of a system. They have to have insurance and they mostly work for corporations. It’s all interwoven. There are licenses and other factors. They are not free actors alone, it needs a group organized support. There are lots of specialists and lab technicians.
I think IVF is going to stop or already has in some states. Cancer treatment is going to be interrupted. I think a lot of people including women are going to find out immediate impacts they didn’t expect. Lots of doctors that aren’t abortion docs will be impacted and will not have a clear way through.
religious fanatics have a history of not understanding science. All women trying to be pregnant will have a hard time getting good care.
sab
@Gvg: Any medical event you have gets filtered through the billing process. Your ectopic pregnancy rescue and your post miscarriage d&c are all billed as abortions. Billing changes are glacially slow. All your life saving medical procedures for the next decade will be billed as abortions, and any evil prosecutor can go nuts with it. Doctors will know that. Your life this time ( and their license) v the chance to save lives later. Basically doctors have to decide to limit their care within these parameters, or quit, or move to a better jurisdiction.
Is this the environment you want your doctor to practice in? If I save you I might lose my license?
This isn’t about abortion only. It’s about adequate health care.
Soprano2
@Kay: It shows they think of pregnant people as incubators with no rights of their own. These people have a “fetus fetish”.
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: Many people of good will fell for Nader’s patter. Magdi Semrau, aka Mangy Jay, has described how she came to campaign for the Green Party candidate in 2000 (she was too young to vote). Now she uses this as a cautionary tale. Ms. Semrau in particular emphasizes how much better Gore would have been on climate change. Gore would definitely put us on a better path in this area as well as many others.
But the “both parties are the same” idea still has traction these days. I guess one change since 2000 is that the pushback from committed Democrats is broad and fierce.
brantl
@Kent: There are more Independents than Democrats, more Democrats than Republicans. If we don’t get more of the independents than the Republicans, we lose.
brantl
@Baud: Pretty much the same thing, both don’t think, but only one has a pulse.
Baud
@Geminid:
I agree. It’s a big change from where things were a decade ago.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I remember Michael Moore arguing all year that it wouldn’t be that bad if Nader spoiled George W. Bush into office, and he specifically said that the Republicans would never let Roe be overturned because they needed the issue to turn out their voters. The idea that they might be true believers on this, and that Supreme Court Justices weren’t necessarily driven by electoral strategy, didn’t cross his mind.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah, people are wary of the infighting, but this conflict has been simmering for a long time. I don’t see how we move forward without resolving it one way or the other.
Kay
@Soprano2:
They absolutely do think of pregnant people as incubators with no rights of their own, which is why you don’t want to find yourself helpless in some kind of emergency pregnancy situation with these people overriding medical decisions as to your care.
They’re absolutely, 100% sacrificing the mother. Every time.
I had a “fall off a cliff” delivery where everything was fine until it wasn’t and everyone in the room was frantically scrambling to save my life. It ended fine but that same evening when I was post op I got stuck with a religious nut nurse who gave me this odd, low voiced lecture about how what I had gone thru was God’s will. I was afraid of her. I asked my husband to tell them I did not want her back in my room and when the hospital called after I was home to ask about my hospital stay- some kind of customer service interview- I reported her.
These people can have their own medical care decided by a tribunal of priests if they want- just don’t drag me into it.
David ☘The Establishment☘ Koch
@Citizen Alan: Dont forget Bush was losing the last week of the election and then bin Laden dropped a video on the final Friday before voting and the media went hysterical for the next 72 hours (“please save us Daddy Party”)
Nettoyeur
@Brachiator: Woodruff and her interviewees have long since had their children, have millions in riches and live in safe blue states. They won’t have any skin in the game for Roe, Trump etc until there is a full blown fascist takeover, by which time it will be too late. Pretty much what happened in Germany in the 1930s.
Nettoyeur
David ☘The Establishment☘ Koch
@Doug R: You bring up a very good point. But the analogy is not to 2002 but rather to 1998.
That year, the media and republicans spent all year impeaching Bill Clinton’s penis and it only mobilized Dem leaning voters to turn out in droves. It was the only time in the past century when the party holding the WH added seats during their sixth year in office.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Good for you for reporting that fanatic. What an awful thing to have to deal with after such a scary experience. What a presumptuous and arrogant ass she was to impose her beliefs on a vulnerable person like that. I bet she had done it before.
David ☘The Establishment☘ Koch
@Geminid: Moreover, Gore would not have invaded Iraq and most importantly he would not have Ignored seven warning of a large scale terrorist attack on us soil.
J R in WV
@Kay:
I now think this will flip the nation politically. Once women and thinking men are in the voting booth, with secret ballot laws (still in place I assume) I think Republicans will lose nearly everywhere. As a commenter above pointed out, the RWNJs recently ran an election against abortion in Mississippi and lost.
And the large quote in the original post, a male writer interviewing Republican MEN about this women’s issue, how stupid and obviously biased is that, for DOG’s sake. Talk about reaching!!!
I have no choice but to think this way actually. Optimism at this stage of my old, old life is what keeps me alive for another month or two. Will continue to vote for Democratic candidates. I have never in my entire long life voted for a non-Democratic candidate!!
Will continue to contribute to liberal causes and candidates as long as there’s spare money, which due to lifelong saving and investing habit (and a great financial advisor!) looks to be good to go! May attempt to do phone banking, can’t really walk well enough to do door-to-door work any more — maybe if I get new knees ASAP?
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
I have a beloved cousin who was born a few years after his mom, my aunt, had emergency surgery for an ectopic pregnancy. His birth was widely considered a miracle by our grandma and other female relatives. My only remaining relative on that side of my family in my generation.
Not possible today?
Who knows!
Pittsburgh Mike
It’s clear where this Court wants to go next: getting rid of same-sex marriage, and access to contraception. There are a number of thing that we could do to block them:
1 — pass a Federal law guaranteeing access to contraceptive devices and drugs. My guess is that we could get to 60 votes in the Senate for that, and if not, make the Republicans filibuster it and then run on this issue in the fall.
2 — pass a Federal law legalizing same sex marriage in all states.
3 — use an executive order to offer space to abortion providers on Federal land. At a minimum, allow them to provide abortion pills, but I’d go for allowing full abortion services.
4 — pass a law blocking law suits like those authorized by the Texas vigilante law.
Run on preserving access to abortion rights in the first trimester or to preserve the health or life of the pregnant woman, preserving access to contraception and preserving same-sex marriage. Make Republicans campaign against these thing — they will lose the suburbs, and that’s enough.
J R in WV
@frosty:
Exciting adventure novels with elf action have been saving me for the past year nearly. Distracting from reality in the best way !!!
Pittsburgh Mike
@sdhays: Yes, this is very important — it isn’t going to be safe to be pregnant in the red states, since in an emergency, you’re going to have very limited options. And being rich, white or both won’t convince a doctor to risk jail or a lawsuit.
Jinchi
That would be phenomenal.
Demings: “We must work relentlessly to preserve our right to choose and our right to privacy. We must protect Roe v. Wade in federal law. We cannot go back to a time when women were treated as second class citizens who don’t have control over our own bodies.”
Rubio’s post-Roe plan to support mothers and babies is tax cuts, tax credits and federal funding for crisis pregnancy centers and religious mentoring for mothers. He also introduced a bill to criminalize leaking of Supreme Court decisions, although he might want to check with Ginni and Clarence Thomas before pushing that one.
brantl
@Alison Rose : EVERYONE’s IQ is smaller than HER jean size…..