Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Peak wingnut was a lie.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

When I was faster i was always behind.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

You are here: Home / Balloon Juice / Women’s Rights Are Human Rights Open Thread: If Only We’d Listened…

Women’s Rights Are Human Rights Open Thread: If Only We’d Listened…

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Conservative, ex-China expat, former Republican:


Your papers, please, citizen!

… Due to its connection to social programs provided by the government, which assigns benefits based on agricultural and non-agricultural residency status (often referred to as rural and urban), the hukou system is sometimes likened to a form of caste system. It has been the source of much inequality over the decades since the establishment of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, as urban residents received benefits that ranged from retirement pension to education to health care, while rural citizens were often left to fend for themselves. In recent years, the central government has begun to reform the system in response to protests and a changing economic system, while some Western experts question whether these changes have been of substance…

Reader Interactions

164Comments

  1. 1.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the list of “If we’d only listened to Hillary Clinton…”

    Max Burns @themaxburns · 22h
    We forget that the exact reason we are in this post-Roe nightmare is because the @GOP was unafraid to provoke legal challenges. They aren’t afraid to make the fight the story. Democrats can learn from that

    Huh. I have other ideas about “the exact reason” we’re here (see above)

  2. 2.

    schrodingers_cat

    It is funny and infuriating to see that the followers of the cult leader who said that Planned Parenthood is the establishment discover women’s rights after Roe was overturned. After spending years tweeting about m4A and the GND and more recently student loans. Come up with ridiculous unworkable solutions like using National Parks for family planning clinics and criticize the Democratic leadership for R actions.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    as urban residents received benefits that ranged from retirement pension to education to health care, while rural citizens were often left to fend for themselves

    Maybe I’m missing something, but this sounds like a good deal.

  8. 8.

    Matt McIrvin

    Naderite “progressives” were dismissing the threat to Roe 22 years ago and Nader himself was contemptuous of “gonadal politics”. I distinctly remember it. I remember Michael Moore assuring us that the Republicans wanted to win elections too badly to ever really get rid of Roe.

    And then there was the 2016 hit, “I don’t vote with my vagina.”

  9. 9.

    Baud

    I can’t click through, but that Politico excerpt sounds like the dumbest thing written about abortion so far, and that’s saying something.

  10. 10.

    MomSense

    @schrodingers_cat:
    It’s absolutely gaslighting at this point.  These assholes have discovered the word codify and think it contains mystical properties that make it unlike any other law that SCOTUS could decide is unconstitutional.

    We literally had one job- vote for Clinton to defend the courts. Now they want to pretend they didn’t reject this warning and that voting isn’t enough because they did vote and blah blah blah.
    They’re treating their role in a democracy like it’s a fucking Yelp review. I’m furious.

  12. 12.

    Layer8Problem

    There’s been way too much astroturfed “BIDEN’S FAULT BIDEN#S FAULT ALL BIDENZ FAULT NOT A DIME,S WORTH OF DIFRENCE BLAH CODIFY ETC and so on” on Reddit, between the Supreme Court and the Great Biden-McConnell Deal for a Seat That’s Not Apparently Open.  There’s a repetitive sameness to all of it.  Somebody’s up to something.

  15. 15.

    Ohio Mom

    Many of the laymen anti-nuts seem to think it’s only a matter of time until viability is moot. Somehow medical science will be able to nurture a six week embryo to term.

    In the fifty years of Roe, viability has moved from an iffy 28 weeks to an iffy 23 weeks. That’s a year every decade, not exactly lightening fast progress. And lots of those neonates don’t make it, or are left with disabilities the RWNJs don’t want to fund services and supports for.

  16. 16.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Baud:

    Gotta say, my thoughts are changing and I’m kinda OK with that

    Discouraging brain drain to urban spaces by establishing the TVA, electrifying the ruralities and improving life for rural folks led us to this juncture. Shoulda let those rugged bootstrappers bootstrap themselves to more diverse places.

  17. 17.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @schrodingers_cat: well put

    @Matt McIrvin: Heh, I was just gonna ask if I was the only one here who remembered “gonadal politics”.

    Nader said he did not think there would be much difference between the justices Gore would choose and those Bush would appoint. After all, Democrats had helped confirm Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, hadn’t they? Besides, “You can’t really predict how Supreme Court justices will behave.” And he called the possibility that a court packed with Republican appointees could overturn Roe v. Wade a “scare tactic.” Nader said that even if Roe v. Wade was overturned, the issue “would just revert to the states.“ Just?

    ”Here’s what happened on that,“ he said wearily. ”The scare tactic is that would end choice in America and I just said that’s not true, but I should have been astute enough not to mention that.“ He said he did not in any case believe for a moment that Bush would seek to overturn Roe v. Wade. ”The first back alley death, and the Republican Party is in deep trouble and they know it,“ he said. He described the party’s opposition to abortion as just for show, ”just for Pat Robertson.“

    he said wearily

  19. 19.

    p.a.

    Last comment went to the ether, no error message, so let’s try:

     

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2022-06-27/the-story-behind-irelands-abortion-ban-and-its-reversal

     

    In the internet age, the deaths these fucks are enabling won’t be anonymous, or just notes in ‘local news’ sections like in the pre-Roe world.  Sad it comes to this, but this change in info tech can be a big aid in chipping down anti-choice support to the hard core of sociopaths.

  21. 21.

    MisterDancer

    It’s understandable that even well-intentioned people, in a panic because they have not paid much attention, even when the draft came out, are flailing out for answers.

    It’s not GOOD, mind you, on many levels! Pushing and screaming for answers without showing any awareness of who’s come before and is still doing the work, is inane. If they’d had, at least, said they disagreed with the approaches of, say, their local Abortion Fund, that would be one thing.

    Robin Marty — who has done the work; hell, she’s comms director at a now ex-Abortion clinic in Alabama, so you can imagine the hell she’s dealt with! — is right. Too much of this “Just do X!” dialogue is just re-hashing old ideas, presenting as “new” concepts Reproductive Rights and Justice orgs have considered and put aside for decades, now. And in some cases, they are just people willing to steamroll over, say, Indigenous People, just to get the hope of care.

    I swear, if some people would just SHUT UP AND LISTEN, try to actually not be the solution — the hero — to every problem right off? We might get somewhere as a movement.

    I have all the sympathy for people afraid — or at least I’m trying to. But fear doesn’t make us unaccountable for our words, or deeds.

  22. 22.

    Ohio Mom

    @MomSense: Yeah, the word “codify” is being treated like some magical spell.

    It’s like clicking our heels together three times while saying “”Roe is now federal law”, why didn’t we do that to start with?

  23. 23.

    Edmund Dantes

    Weird how Biden changed his tune. It’s almost like criticizing  Dems for taking moronic stances and not just reflexively defending them at every turn with “you’re hurting us by not focusing on the people we have no control over” gets the Dem politician off a vote suppressing and losing stance of “I disagree with court reform and filibuster reform” post Dobbs.

    It’s almost like you need people pushing from the left to get Dems to do the right thing , but I see the usual suspects are here reflexively bashing the “left”

     

    funny how that works.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    @Ohio Mom:

    It’s a bad faith argument meant to distract.  It’s best not to get into it.  The only way we can help people is by getting more Senators and keeping the House.

    Remember, we are the only game in town that can protect the innocent.  Keep the focus on them, not the haters.

  26. 26.

    Starfish

    So in this context, Biden is trying to give Mitch McConnell an anti-abortion judge. The right wing of the Democratic Party is reflexively defending this. At this moment, you do not given Mitch McConnell anti-abortion judges. How hard is that?

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @Edmund Dantes:

    Our bashing of the left is not reflexive, it’s quite thoughtful.

    And to clarify once again, most of the “left” stands with us. It’s really only a small portion that we have an issue with.

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropacetic: those of you who forgot the (very recent) past condemned the rest of us to relive it, with worse and even longer-term consequences

  30. 30.

    Another Scott

    There’s a lot of cynicism masquerading as savvy right now. We all have agency here.

    — Aaron (@BobbyBigWheel) June 30, 2022

    +1

    “Republicans don’t lie to be believed. They lie to be repeated” – LOLGOP

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  31. 31.

    Kropacetic

    @schrodingers_cat: I suppose they should just shut the Congressional switchboard then. No need for anyone to hear from their constituents

    Given the particular two you mentioned  I’d imagine both and certainly at least one would have done the diligence on the feasibility of the particular idea.

    Is it ideal? No. Will there be problems implementing it? Absolutely. Have you heard any better ideas? I haven’t, but if you have I’m open.

    Let’s identify better ideas and disseminate them, together.

    ETA: This Supreme Court horror show is stressing all of us out. You might not like the way some act on it. Intramural fighting isn’t helping.

  32. 32.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @MomSense: This is the part that bugs me probably more than anything (except for obviously the tremendous damage, loss of rights): the fact that these motherfuckers are now pushing us to just “move on” or “get over 2016.”  I am NOT OVER IT!!  And I’m not gonna be for a very long time.  And that emotion is 100% justified and appropriate.  We SHOULD be pissed at all the assholes allegedly on our side, that helped let this happen.  I will never forget who they were (in my world and my social media follows) and I will never forgive their ambivalence.

  34. 34.

    Served

    @Edmund Dantes: it’s like clockwork here.

    I get that we are on the knife’s edge, but it’s irrational to be so defensive and reactive to criticism of Biden or Dem leadership. It’s perfectly healthy to have that kind of pressure on political leaders! It reminds me of a lot of church’s “don’t criticize the pastor, because it will hurt our Message” culture. It’s anti-democratic.

    The pressure played some role in getting leadership and candidates to the desired position. That’s great! We have leaders who listen, even they may not agree or decide to adopt a specific critique as policy.

  35. 35.

    waspuppet

    … the hukou system is sometimes likened to a form of caste system. It has been the source of much inequality over the decades …

    Republicans: We know.

  36. 36.

    mistermix

    What I think is completely defeatist is to say that the Supremes will overrule the codification of Roe after it is passed by Congress.  Maybe they will, but if we have the legislative power to codify Roe — which means that we have a majority in the Senate for, at minimum, a filibuster carve out for women’s rights — then we also have the legislative power to react to the Supremes’ actions.

    Same is true for voting rights, which died in the Manchinema anti-Democratic and anti-democratic vortex.  Once Senators get used to overruling the filibuster to get our priorities passed, they might get used to getting some positive press for doing something other than one gigantic reconciliation per year.

  38. 38.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @UncleEbeneezer: I’ll get over 2016 (and 2000) when trump’s accomplices on the anti-Dem Left, and those who joined the misguided cause later, show some sign of having learned its lessons

    there are even a few people who really should know better who have put a foot, or a foot and a half, in their camp

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    @Edmund Dantes: FDR’s (possibly apocryphal) “I agree; now make me do it” quote comes into play here. Biden has moved left on a lot of issues because he’s a politician who is responding to changing currents within his party / the electorate.

    Moral of the story: Punch Nazis, not hippies.

  40. 40.

    Kropacetic

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bruh, I voted for Hillary Clinton. I donated. I told all my friends they ought to do the same. She one my state by a wide margin, and every neighboring state by at least a little.

    What more should I have done?

  43. 43.

    Baud

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not quite as bad, but….

    Sanders believes that by keeping his focus on economic populism, he has a shot — a long one, he admits — at beating the historical odds. “Once you get off of the social issues — abortion, gay rights, guns — and into the economic issues,” he says, “there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand.”

    ,…

    Through the Obama years, the Democratic Party’s strategy has been to specifically target the so-called coalition of the ascendant — young people, minorities, college-educated women — by heightening contradictions with the GOP on issues like immigration, LGBT rights, overpolicing and abortion. Sanders rarely mentions these issues, except when questioned by audience members at town halls.

     
    Bernie is solid on abortion policy, but we don’t need to be preached on the issue by anyone.

  45. 45.

    mistermix

    @Served:

    I get that we are on the knife’s edge, but it’s irrational to be so defensive and reactive to criticism of Biden or Dem leadership. It’s perfectly healthy to have that kind of pressure on political leaders! It reminds me of a lot of church’s “don’t criticize the pastor, because it will hurt our Message” culture. It’s anti-democratic.

    Yep, the Democratic party is healthy when our elected Ds listen to the base, and that’s what happened here.

  48. 48.

    mistermix

    @Betty Cracker:

    FDR’s (possibly apocryphal) “I agree; now make me do it” quote comes into play here.

    Obama said something like this pretty regularly, too.

  51. 51.

    Matt McIrvin

    I don’t mind the left wing of the party pushing for their favored policies, as long as they’re inside the tent pissing out. What enrages me is not the Squad or Elizabeth Warren, it’s the people on the “left” who are always actively trying to defeat the Democratic Party for some clever-clever ironic double-switchback heighten-the-contradictions reason (and then blame it when their own efforts contribute to hindering it)

    That’s not anyone in Congress. It *is* Nina Turner, Nader, Michael Moore, Greenwald, half of Left Twitter, etc. Sometimes the Sanders wing of the party dances with them too much.

  53. 53.

    debbie

    Am I the only one who remembers Karl Rove’s “permanent majority” and Dick Cheney’s “because it is our due”? Someone needs to plant themselves in front of both of them and ask if this is really what they meant.

  54. 54.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @MisterDancer: One of the big problems is that a lot of the people who helped get us here by hand-waving away concerns about SCOTUS/Roe and even cried “Blackmail” when we told them “this is why we all need to support Hillary” and the Dem Party (at every level), aren’t interested in being held accountable for their culpability.  They love to talk a big game about accountability when it refers to other people, but they won’t even admit they fucked up.  And instead of acknowledging that we all make mistakes (I voted for Nader…ugh…learned my lesson, never happen again) they just want to gaslight the rest of us and pretend that 2016 never happened or that Roe fell for all these other reasons than the glaring fucking obvious one.  I don’t know how Accountability works with people who simply refuse to be held accountable.  Personally I’m for reminding everyone at every turn that these people screwed up the easiest, most obvious political lay-up in history and we should always remember that going forward.  Personally I’ve been doing this for years whenever a new person tries to join my Indivisible group or my circle of civically-engaged friends.  I go back to their FB feed and see what they were saying/doing in 2016, and judge them accordingly.  If they were still complaining about the Rigged Primary or flirting with Jill Stein, I know right away what type of person I’m dealing with.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    A few main things:

    1. Discourage directly or indirectly the act of voting for Dems (e.g., suggesting both sides are the same).
    2. Spread misinformation about Dems.
    3. Engage in what whataboutism (e.g., why didn’t they do this 50 years ago!) to distract from the focus on restoring abortion rights.
    4. Suggest without evidence that Dems (other than Manchin and Sinema) can’t be trusted to restore abortion rights if they have sufficient votes to do so.
    5. Impose litmus tests that distract from the main issue of restoring voting rights.

    I did this on the fly, so I don’t promise it’s comprehensive or refined.

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    @Matt McIrvin: I agree with that; there are dirtbags who just want to watch the world burn. It’s not a large group but it has an outsized voice.

  58. 58.

    Kropacetic

    @schrodingers_cat: my leftist betters

    Your words…

    Please though, criticize all you want, but can we try to be constructive?

    Eta: That’s “we;” you, I, and everyone.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    @mistermix:

    I don’t know what that about. If you’re arguing look forward, not back, fine.  But then we should vehemently push back on voices that try to look back at supposed Dem failings.

  62. 62.

    Scout211

    @schrodingers_cat: @Starfish:

    There has been a constant back and forth in the comments about the debunking of this “deal with the devil” between Biden and McConnell, but it’s now in the mainstream news.

    It almost makes me believe hope that the story was leaked on purpose by the White House. The sudden rise in resistance from Democrats to this deal has me hoping that it is designed to make it impossible for Biden to agree to it.

    Or maybe it’s just me and my silly hopes.

    U.S. Rep. John Yarmuth, D-Louisville, who confirmed Biden is poised to nominate Chad Meredith to U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky, called it a “huge mistake.”

    . . .
    Gov. Andy Beshear, said Thursday he also strongly opposes the pick, saying his team was informed last week that Biden intended to nominate Meredith.
    Beshear said his understanding is that Biden has not yet submitted the nomination, “which I hope means in the very least it’s on pause.
    “If the president makes that nomination, it is indefensible.”
    . . .

    A White House spokesman declined to speak on the nomination, saying “we do not comment on vacancies.”

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Matt McIrvin:

    That’s not anyone in Congress. It *is* Nina Turner, Nader, Michael Moore, Greenwald, half of Left Twitter, etc. Sometimes the Sanders wing of the party dances with them too much.

    Bernie and his sidekicks endorsed and campaigned for Turner, twice, after she campaigned with Jill Stein in ’16 and said there was no difference between Joe Biden and Donald trump– two indistinguishable bowls of shit– in September of 2020.

    Like I said, when they show me some sign they learn from their mistakes, I’ll at least pretend to forget. I don’t really do forgiveness.

  65. 65.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Thanks — was curious if it aligned with my definition. I still don’t know because a lot of those descriptors are purely in the eye of the beholder, but that’s the nature of the beast, I suppose.

  66. 66.

    MomSense

    @Edmund Dantes: 
    you seem to be missing that part of the problem is the message that voting doesn’t work which is voter suppression at a time when our existence is at stake.

  67. 67.

    catclub

    @Ohio Mom: It’s like clicking our heels together three times while saying “”Roe is now federal law”, why didn’t we do that to start with?

     

    As far as I know, the Hyde amendment, forbidding ANY spending of federal dollars to support abortion, is still in force.  That is how far we were/are from enacting laws codifying Roe V Wade.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    @Steeplejack:

    If people convince Biden not to do this, I hope they put in extra effort to keep the Senate in Democratic hands so the remaining judgeships can go through.

  69. 69.

    ARoomWithAMoose

    Open thread.  Is there any sort of data analysis on new nyms and whatever story they are pushing? Is the comments section even instrumented for that beyond the person choice of activating the PIE filter on certain nyms?

    Seeing all these new nyms immediately pushing stuff like the debunked “Biden appointing…” story from two evenings ago, that thing won’t die and was front paged over on LGM same evening without a public retraction.  Add to it the number of “you can’t do anything about it, the Dems are feckless, stay home” comments…

    I get that we’ll see triggered folks finally jumping in, but how to fight this sort of disinfo and disruption or at least train folks up on recognizing the signs?

  71. 71.

    Eolirin

    @Edmund Dantes: Please show me where Biden expressed resistance to a filibuster exemption for abortion rights post Roe being overturned. Or where he’s expressed a shift in court packing since saying he’s not in favor of that?

    I don’t see any evidence of the angry masses causing a shift in strategy right now. Dems have tightened their message a little, making things more explicit, but they started with Roe is on the ballot and I don’t think the leadership is unable to count. There’s no way we’re getting 60 Democratic senators so the only way that was gonna work is with a filibuster exemption.

  74. 74.

    Miss Bianca

    @Starfish: Jesus Christ, THAT STORY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED ALREADY. If you’re amplifying bad signal, you’re not helping. Stop with your anti-Biden crap, it’s getting really old and smelly

    ETA: Even if there are “pending developments”, I’m still wary about accepting this story at face value.

  75. 75.

    Ksmiami

    Go after the Federalist society. Elect more aggressive and young Dem reps and senators and start playing hardball with hhs funding

  76. 76.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly.  Which is why I will probably NEVER get over 2016.  I can’t think of almost any of the people who pulled anti-Hillary/Dem bullshit, encouraged people to vote 3rd Party etc., who have actually owned up to their mistake.

    Some were just real quiet as soon as Trump won and have wisely learned to shut the hell up, but the vast majority have simply pretended that they did nothing wrong and have doubled-down on BothSides/DemsR2Blame bullshit to a response of amens and high-fives from their purity pony circle of friends.

  77. 77.

    Kropacetic

    @MomSense: you seem to be missing that part of the problem is the message that voting doesn’t work which is voter suppression at a time when our existence is at stake.

    Luckily this POV doesn’t penetrate my small, curated information flow. Balloon Juice and Youtube are the extent of my social media consumption. I’ve dipped my toes into Reddit and haven’t encountered it there in any significant way either, isolated posts with a lot of pushback from the group.

    We can choose not to focus on things that are actively pissing us off.

    Eta: Twitter is a plague.

  80. 80.

    Eolirin

    @mistermix: Oh my God, they were already doing this. The base didn’t need to push them to do it. Ffs.

    They clarified their language at best.

    They’re not actually out of touch the way you want to portray them as being.

  81. 81.

    schrodingers_cat

    Bern brigade is ageist, its always boomer this and gerontocracy that. Biden and Feinstein are too old but Green Mountain Man who had a heart attack is a spring chicken. Make it make sense.

  82. 82.

    Another Scott

    @Steeplejack:

    Something something Sold Us Out!!11

    A Reuters story about the paywalled KY paper story said that the agreement was that Biden would appoint the RWNJ in KY in return for Moscow Mitch agreeing not to block every other Biden judicial appointee if Moscow Mitch gets control of the Senate in January.

    True?  No idea.  Sensible agreement for us?  No idea.

    It’s our job to do our best so that Moscow Mitch is not in that position.  Elections have consequences.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  85. 85.

    Cacti

    @schrodingers_cat:  On this, I think they actually have a point, but for their glaring omission of Bernie.

    Too much of the current Dem leadership is a bunch of blue hairs, with 20th century thinking, and in search of comity that has gone the way of the dinosaur.  I’m ready for some party leadership whose ages don’t start with 6, 7, or 8

    In Bernie’s case though, he never outgrew being a 1960s university student.  Vulgar class reductionism is an antiquated and thoroughly discredited idea.

  87. 87.

    Ksmiami

    @schrodingers_cat: Goddamit that’s because the gop does exactly that. No one ever says shit When the GOP shoves bad legislation/decisions down our throats w bare majorities or minorities. We need to do the same

  88. 88.

    gvg

    @Starfish: Don’t you recognize bullshit when you hear it? That rumor never made any sense and has been debunked.

    Some rumors can have a chance of being true and no politician is perfectly in agreement with me or you, but that stupid story was always too dumb to pay attention to.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    @Kropacetic:

    We can choose not to focus on things that are actively pissing us off.

     

    For others, not me, this stuff permeates their real life relationships, from what I hear.

  91. 91.

    MomSense

    @Scout211:

    If this deal is true – this is actually Biden acting like LBJ. Fast tracking a bunch of judicial nominees in return for 1 in Kentucky is a deal I would take in a second.

  92. 92.

    Eolirin

    @Ksmiami: They don’t pass legislation. When they had 52 votes under Trump they did not advance their policy objectives except the tax cuts. They could not get the ACA repeal through and they did literally nothing else the entire time they were in power.

  94. 94.

    Kropacetic

    @schrodingers_cat: I was equally anti-Bernie and anti-Biden in 2020.* None of it had anything to do with age.

    I’ve heard stories about Feinstein that give me pause, but until I witness something they’re just stories.

    *The actual administration has been better than I dared to hope. I suspect the same would have been true for Bernie. I still feel I’d have preferred the roughly six people on my list I would have put above them, but at this point that’s neither here nor there.

  96. 96.

    Kropacetic

    @Baud:For others, not me, this stuff permeates their real life relationships, from what I hear.

    It used to for me, though in my case it was Republicans not leftists. I dropped those fools.

    Eta: Those were the ones who, after several attempts of “let’s just not talk about these things,” persisted at pushing their BS.

  97. 97.

    Eolirin

    @MomSense: You do not enter into an agreement with McConnell unless you get what he’s giving before you give what he wants. Period.

    He’s broken every promise he’s made with the senate democrats when he was majority leader.

  98. 98.

    Another Scott

    @catclub:

    Time.com (from July 2021):

    The House of Representatives passed a package of spending bills this week without provisions banning federal funding for most abortions in the U.S. and abroad, marking the first time in decades that the restrictions have not been included.

    The changes face long odds in the evenly divided Senate, where moderate Democrats and Republicans have said they oppose removing the abortion limits, but the House’s move represents a milestone in the national battle over abortion access.

    “Finally, the right to reproductive freedom has been recognized by the majority of Democrats,” says Rep. Barbara Lee of California, who has championed the effort to repeal the funding bans for years.

    TheHill (from October 2021):

    Senate Democrats on Monday for the first time in decades left out an amendment from their annual government funding bills that blocks people from using Medicaid or other federal health programs to cover abortion services.

    The provision, also known as the Hyde amendment, was omitted from legislation to fund the Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education departments. The bill was unveiled by Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) on Monday afternoon.

    Yeah, it’s still there, but Democrats are trying to get rid of it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  99. 99.

    mistermix

    @Eolirin:

    Oh my God, they were already doing this. The base didn’t need to push them to do it. Ffs.

    They clarified their language at best.

    They’re not actually out of touch the way you want to portray them as being.

    Nope, Biden had expressed reluctance to get rid of the filibuster up until yesterday morning, and Pelosi dodged the question up until a couple of days ago.  I posted on Pelosi’s change two days ago – just scroll back a page or so.

    Another person to read on this is Josh Marshall, who is by no means a flaming lefty.  He had a NYT Op-Ed, in addition to his postings at TPM, detailing how the party had to move from their current post-Roe strategy.

  102. 102.

    catothedog

    @Baud:

    Thank you for that list. I’m going to spread it everywhere I can

    One thing I have noticed is that young people have no fekking clue about the past. All they know is Dems are in power and why are they not doing anything.

    I wish someone created some easy primer/ memes about the path to how we got here. and how the US govt works and how power works in the govt.

    The most agitated people have no clue about the past, and the path to fighting the coming rightwing rule  TO WIN. They are easy prey to disinformation on social media.

  103. 103.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Eolirin: the still-unconfirmed details of the deal suggest that it’s not about the future, it’s about getting more judges (and apparently) US attorneys?) confirmed now, before the mid-terms.  I’ve seen the number of judges Biden gets in return for this one (and he does look like a bad actor even for a KY Republican) as 15, but that was twitter so I wouldn’t put too much stock in it

  104. 104.

    Elizabelle

    @Kropacetic:

    We can choose not to focus on things that are actively pissing us off.

    Just wanted to see that sentence again.  Yes, we can.

  106. 106.

    Edmund Dantes

    @MomSense: no. There are plenty of times perfectly valid criticism of Dem politicians gets someone labeled here a Bernie dead ender (my personal favorite as I’ve never been a Bernie supporter) a stupid progressive, you’re  hurting Dems, and a bunch of other stuff.

    I’ve been reading and commenting on this blog a long long long time (I pre-date the Schiavo conversion). And there is reflexive need amongst a “loud” segment to shout down any criticism of Pelosi, Biden, Obama, and others as being out of bounds, aiding the enemy, etc.

    Yes the gop is mostly responsible, but Dem politicians made a lot of mistakes (and continue to make them) in suppressing their own voters, chasing after “swing” voters while telling their base to “suck it up”, etc

    I give as the perfect example. The leader of the Democratic Party after a 2 month heads up coming out with “I disagree with court reform and reforming the filibuster”. When reforming the filibuster is the only way we are codifying Roe unless you magically belief we are getting 60 seats in the senate anytime soon (ignoring the reality of the Senate and its natural gerrymander of red state senators).  Why did it take Biden a week of yelling at him to understand how politically stupid that was?

    And now we have Maloney the head of the Dems battle to take back the House lamenting the need for the GOP of yesteryear. You know the ones that still voted for all this horrible stuff but were polite about it? We need to break the Dem establishment of the siren song of the GOP that has never existed (or really were just Dems calling themselves GOP before the southern strategy).

  107. 107.

    Eolirin

    @mistermix: Show me actual quotes of Biden saying I’m not in favor of lifting the filibuster over this please.

    Coordinating messaging behind the scenes is a good reason to hedge, and provide non statements until the exact strategy is worked out and everyone is on board with it, but again, they both came out saying Roe was on the ballot pretty much immediately.

    Are you accusing Pelosi of all people of not being able to count? Does Biden not know how the senate works?

    Wtf did you think that meant?

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    @Steeplejack: Thanks.  The Reuters story was from yesterday.

    […]

    Biden on Wednesday announced his 103rd and 104th circuit and district court nominees, including a pick for the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Delaware Supreme Court Justice Tamika Renee Montgomery-Reeves.

    While the Senate has confirmed 68 district and circuit court nominees, progressives have fretted that time is running out to confirm more before November’s midterms, when Republican could retake the Senate.

    John Collins, a law professor at George Washington University, said Biden could be seeking a deal to avoid an en mass blockade of his nominees if they reclaim it.

    “I’m sure it won’t be limited to Meredith, either—it’ll probably be a package of red state nominees,” he said.

    I have no idea how plugged-in to the plans Collins is. And nothing’s done until it’s done.

    My bottom line is – Biden’s not stupid. He knows how all this stuff works better than anyone.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    Kropacetic

    @Eolirin: Coordinating messaging behind the scenes is a good reason to hedge, and provide non statements until the exact strategy is worked out and everyone is on board with it, but again, they both came out saying Roe was on the ballot pretty much immediately.

    This, precisely.

  110. 110.

    Cameron

    @Baud: Ah, the old ‘precognitive hindsight’ gambit – “Now that we know that X is true, why didn’t you do Y at the time?”  This may be specific to lefties (or self-proclaimed lefties); I can’t imagine what the wingnut version of this would be.

  111. 111.

    gene108

    @Served:

    I get that we are on the knife’s edge, but it’s irrational to be so defensive and reactive to criticism of Biden or Dem leadership. It’s perfectly healthy to have that kind of pressure on political leaders!

    We are not in healthy times. We are in very unhealthy sick times.

    50% of the media (including social media) will do everything in their power to promote and defend Republicans and tear down Democrats. The other 50% is predisposed to side with Republicans.

    Most voters aren’t as plugged into news as BJ’ers are. They don’t go much past the headlines, or even if they do they are not so broadly versed in American history to understand any broader context.

    All they digest is “Democrats are weak”, “Democrats don’t do anything”, “Democrats suck”, etc. You want to call Democratic Congress people to complain, or state legislators, or county commissioners, go ahead. But slamming Democrats in public just reinforces the “Democrats suck” narrative that permeates media.

    The American Rescue Plan was a big boost to a lot of people. I bet 90% of Americans don’t even know it ever existed. It reduced my monthly health insurance premium from $562/month to $11/month, while I was unemployed last year.

    The entire response to the COVID pandemic that’s created almost record low unemployment has been based on Democratic ideas. The CARES Act, the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, the American Rescue Plan, and all the supplemental spending bills are about putting money into the hands of the people who need it most. They weren’t based around tax cut “magic”.

    Since the majority of coverage is based on the “Democrats suck”, “Democrats are weak, unlike Republicans”, etc. narratives very few people realize Democrats have gotten stuff done. All the public criticism just reinforces these dominant narratives about how awful Democrats are.

    Winning elections is all about voter enthusiasm and turnout. I fail to see how the endless criticism of Democrats, with almost no recognition of what they’ve accomplished, improves the enthusiasm of people to turnout for Democrats this year.

    If there’s anything Democrats need to learn from Republicans is (1) winning is the top priority, and (2) stay on message. You can grab a hundred Republicans and they’ll keep repeating the same points, which saturates the media and sets the narratives that reach most voters.

  112. 112.

    zhena gogolia

    @Cameron: Anyone who could not predict that a Trump victory would lead to the end of Roe v. Wade is a complete moron.

  114. 114.

    mistermix

    @Eolirin:

    Are you accusing Pelosi of all people of not being able to count? Does Biden not know how the senate works?

    No.  You’re completely misrepresenting what I’m saying.

    On Pelosi:  Here’s the link to the article by a reporter who covers the House for a living and is quite good.  Basically, he, correctly, says that Pelosi deflected anti-filibuster questions up until her press conference two days ago, when she clearly stated the position that we need two more senators in the Senate to stop the filibuster.

    On Biden:  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/biden-filibuster-voting-rights/619431/

    One example of his long-standing rhetoric on the filibuster.  There are newer ones,

  115. 115.

    catclub

    @Another Scott: wow. thanks for the update of my priors!

     

    Am I correct that leaving it out in one step of the legislation is not the same as ‘left out of  the final legislation’?

  116. 116.

    schrodingers_cat

    @zhena gogolia:  I warned the BS or bust person in my life again and again. Begged and pleaded but no they could not bring themselves to vote for history’s greatest monster (their words) against the Orange Error.
    When they defended the Muslim ban that was it for me. I ended that friendship of more than a decade

    It was a hard thing to do because this was a close friend

    I was trying to change their mind since 2014, is when they turned against Obama.

  117. 117.

    Eolirin

    Also, social media is fucking awful at distorting what people are actually saying and doing, even when the person doing the distorting is not a bad faith actor. That’s why I want to see direct quotes with context on pretty much any claim before I’m going to accept it, even stuff that the right is doing.

    There is way too much acceptance of things that when you actually click through the links and look at the direct source is literally the opposite of what everyone is claiming it is. It’s absolutely maddening.

  120. 120.

    West of the Rockies

    Question for the community: how can I best donate cash to most effectively fight back on climate change and the SCOTUS EPA ruling?
    (On a personal note, we’ve already gone solar on our home.)

  121. 121.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    One of the problems with Bernie-ism was the whole thing was based in a fantasy of executive action (which itself was built on the fantasy the Sanders could win a general election in this country), which fantasies still permeate, or infect, that wing of the party. So we get Dem-leaning, low-info voters who don’t get that politics is hard work, that incrementalism isn’t a corrupt political theory but the way politics work in this country. Sprinkle in the weird deification of LBJ based on half-understood and mostly apocryphal anecdotes, and they start spreading arguments like: Biden can just open abortion clinics in National Parks! and when the flaws in that nonsense are pointed out, One Weird Twist is added to One Weird Trick: He can build the clinics and then just lease them to Planned Parenthood! Because Republicans are, I suppose, just going to sit on the sidelines muttering in frustration about those meddling, and oh-so-clever, kids like Scooby Doo villains. The focus shifts from the hard work of changing things in a complicated political system (three co-equal branches and states vs feds), where centuries-old institutions have stacked the deck against Democrats in ways unforeseen in 1789 and the late 19th century, to “Why doesn’t Biden just….!”

    From there it’s a pretty quick hop to: Roe was repealed while Biden was President. Ergo, the repeal of Roe is Biden’s legacy.

  123. 123.

    Betty Cracker

    @Steeplejack: Damn, this isn’t just a bog-standard Fed Soc creep — Meredith is completely toxic. From the linked article:

    When in Bevin’s office, Meredith defended a 2017 Kentucky abortion law requiring doctors who perform abortions to first perform an ultrasound and describe the image to the patient, losing first at a trial in federal court before the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals later upheld the statute.

    As the top appellate lawyer for Cameron, Meredith also successfully defended a state law in the Kentucky Supreme Court that stripped Gov. Beshear of his emergency power to implement COVID-19 restrictions.

    Beshear said Meredith should be disqualified from a nomination for his work on the controversial pardons and commutations of Bevin at the end of his term, saying the deputy counsel “aided and advised on the most egregious abuse of power by a governor in my lifetime.”

    I hope rumors of a deal turn out to be false, #1 because Meredith is horrible, and #2 McConnell is a lying snake who won’t hold up his end of any bargain struck.

  124. 124.

    Another Scott

    @mistermix: Pelosi has less than zero impact on Senate rules and procedures.  Normal voters have more influence than she does on that topic.  Seriously.  There’s historical animosity between the Houses.  What benefit is there in her commenting on it?

    Sure, fire up the base.  But it’s perfectly sensible for her – as Speaker – not to get involved with arguments about Senate procedures.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125.

    Edmund Dantes

    @Eolirin: 2 months to prepare and this was his press secretary speaking for him:

     

    “MS. JEAN-PIERRE: So, I know I’ve — I’ve been asked — I was asked this question yesterday, and I’ve been asked it before — and I think the President himself — about doing — about expanding the Court. That is something that the President does not agree with. That is not something that he wants to do.”

     

    and here is the section on filibuster reform where he wasn’t for it even though without 60 Dems senators (it’s not happening without filibuster reform) he has his press secretary talking about a magical world where filibuster reform is not needed .

     

    “Q And on that, what is the President’s reform on — position on filibuster reform? He says, you know, “Elect more Democrats.” Let’s say he got two more Democrats in the Senate who would be okay with killing the filibuster on this issue so he had 50. Would he then support that stance?

    MS. JEAN-PIERRE: I mean, look, if we got more — more members of Congress, more — more members of Congress who support Roe, then the thinking would be that we would be able to pass a law to get that done. I don’t think the — I don’t think the filibuster would play a role there.

    But that’s what we have to do. We got to make sure that we elect more members, or we have more members come in to — come in to Congress that can actually make a difference here.

    I’ve got to be careful, because I can’t talk about — (laughs) — elec- — as you know. So I’ve got to be careful of what I say.

    But the point that I’m making is: I hear — I hear you — I hear your point about the filibuster. But I think if — if we’re able to — if Americans are able to use their voice at the ballot box, bring in more members into Congress that support this issue, then there is movement that we can make. There is a way that we can restore Roe. And that is the most important thing that we can do.”

     

    So yeah asked a direction question on does the President support filibuster reform. She dodged.

    They had 2 months to prepare for Dobbs and what there response would be and this is it.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2022/06/25/press-gaggle-by-press-secretary-karine-jean-pierre-and-nsc-coordinator-for-strategic-communications-john-kirby-en-route-munich-germany/

    This was an uncontested layup, and the Biden White House tripped over its own two feet

     

    the statement should have been short simple and too the point

     

    “I whole heartedly support a womens right to chose. If that requires legislation, I support it. If it requires a filibuster carveout, I support it. If it requires court reform, I support it. If it require a constitutional amendment, I support it.”

  126. 126.

    Kropacetic

    @catclub: Am I correct that leaving it out in one step of the legislation is not the same as ‘left out of  the final legislation’?

    I would consult the final legislation, when available, to answer that.

  128. 128.

    mistermix

    @Edmund Dantes:

    I’ve been reading and commenting on this blog a long long long time (I pre-date the Schiavo conversion). And there is reflexive need amongst a “loud” segment to shout down any criticism of Pelosi, Biden, Obama, and others as being out of bounds, aiding the enemy, etc.

    I think part of this is an incredibly naive view of the power of what is posted on this blog.  B-J is a great place, but it is not that influential.  I view it as an “inside baseball” type of blog that is a good place for political junkies to talk about the pros and cons of different political positions and messaging.

    And, news alert, Democrats criticize messaging.  Here’s a great example from Rep Ruben Gallego (D-AZ) today:

    https://twitter.com/RubenGallego/status/1542818790521671682

    CNN: “What do you say to those families that say, ‘listen, we can’t afford to pay $4.85 a gallon for months, if not years?’”

    BIDEN ADVISOR BRIAN DEESE: “This is about the future of the Liberal World Order and we have to stand firm.”

    Gallego:  “Democracy just say Democracy, we are helping defend a Democratic country. Stop talking to Americans as if they read Foreign Policy magazine.  F*^K why is this so hard”

  129. 129.

    Another Scott

    @catclub: It will be astounding if the Hyde Amendment is successfully stripped this cycle.  There are not yet enough obvious votes to do so – as usual the problem is the Senate.

    We’ll know when it happens – the RWNJs will not shut up about it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    Kropacetic

    @mistermix: I think part of this is an incredibly naive view of the power of what is posted on this blog.  B-J is a great place, but it is not that influential.  I view it as an “inside baseball” type of blog that is a good place for political junkies to talk about the pros and cons of different political positions and messaging.

    But we all go elsewhere, even real life places on earth, and culture spreads. Forming good habits and best practices here then exercising them elsewhere may produce little, but it won’t be nothing.

  132. 132.

    Kropacetic

    Edmund Dantes: The message is this is wrong, anti-autonomy, anti-democratic, will kill people, and lead to additional loss of rights. . It has been coming through loud and clear since the leak.

  133. 133.

    Eolirin

    @mistermix: Yeah uh, that second article doesn’t say what you think it says, or you were just ignoring what I was asking for. And looking at that article, I really think you’re just not worth engaging on this topic. It’s entire premise is green lanternism, for one, so that you took it seriously is extremely disappointing, but I asked you for an instance of Biden expressing opposition to filibuster reform specifically on abortion rights, and specifically *after* Roe got struck down, and you come back at me with a “WHY WON’T BIDEN LEAD” screed that doesn’t even quote Biden saying anything about a procedural issue in a different branch of government that’s supposed to be co-equal and doesn’t currently have the votes to do it anyway. Jfc.

    Senate has to decide on this stuff. If the President or the Speaker of the House is going to weigh in it has to be exceptional circumstances and in coordination with senate leadership. It’s not their jobs to deal with it and it isn’t their place to throw the senate under the bus. They’re using it as a campaign issue now though, and these count as exceptional circumstances, and I guarantee Schumer was part of the strategy over making that call. Any time prior to now would not have made sense.

  135. 135.

    Eolirin

    @Edmund Dantes: She said we support filibuster reform without saying we support filibuster reform. Presumably so as not to step on Biden making that the official position. The few day delay on doing that may have been for any number of reasons. Including not wanting to step on the stuff going on foreign policy wise.

    There’s really no other way to take those statements.

    If she’s saying we don’t believe the filibuster will be an issue it’s because the administration believes it will be lifted for that vote if there are enough new senators. It certainly doesn’t suggest the administration is opposed to that happening.

    It took them less than a week to get their messaging to where it is, and Pelosi is calling votes on a bunch of bills too soon for them to not have already been being worked on. They were preparing.

  136. 136.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I’m bummed. It’s likely we’re going to lose in ’22 because the usual suspects both here and there automatically buy into the “Democrats Never Do The Right Thing” narrative. Because they can’t admit that they fucked up in 2016, they’re doubling down on amplifying the voices of the Kewl Kids who have done nothing of any legislative value. It’s depressing.

  137. 137.

    kalakal

    There’s a magic word ‘Solidarity’ and there’s 2 more ‘Party discipline’. Most political parties worldwide have a public forum for it’s members to debate policy and select their leaders/representatives In the UK it’s party conferences & local commitees. In the US it’s much more open with the primary system. In both cases once the debating/voting is done  you publicly abide by the result until the next time. The way to change policy is not to kneecap your own party. If you want to be proud, independent and free in public go right ahead but don’t do it as a member of the party. And if you criticize do it in good faith, US presidents have enormous powers but the ability to conjure a senate majority is not one of them.

    it really pisses me off to see all the social media comments by purity ponies believing they’re putting themselves  on the right side of history  they’re a self indulgent privileged gits and should look up Ernst Thalmann* and then go take a long walk off a short pier.

    I have equal contempt for, and the same advice for, bad faith actors like Manichema who have no equal in sabotaging Biden’s agenda.

    Link

  138. 138.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Eolirin: it simply amazes me how many political junkies, and even elected politicians, can’t let go of the idea that Senators, or for that matter Representatives, are somehow subordinate to the President of their own party.

  139. 139.

    mistermix

    @Eolirin:

    Yeah uh, that second article doesn’t say what you think it says, or you were just ignoring what I was asking for. And looking at that article, I really think you’re just not worth engaging on this topic.

    Edmund Dantes posted what you asked for up farther in the comments.  I just did a quick Google search for “Biden Filibuster” and found that.  He has consistently been against filibuster reform, including recently.

    But look, you can accuse me of whatever you want.  I’ve been posting here for 10+ years and when the archives are recovered, you can make your judgment on my faith, good or bad, by clicking on my name and reading what I wrote.

  140. 140.

    mistermix

    @Eolirin:

    t took them less than a week to get their messaging to where it is, and Pelosi is calling votes on a bunch of bills too soon for them to not have already been being worked on. They were preparing.

    My god, the Roe decision was leaked in early May IIRC.  They had over a month to prepare.

  141. 141.

    Eolirin

    @Anyway: None of which required legislative action other than accepting nominees. That was the point I was making? They don’t pass legislation. Passing legislation is hard. Bare majorities don’t let you govern like FDR, and that applies to the GOP too. That’s why they don’t even try. Much easier to break things via the the executive branch and the courts.

  144. 144.

    ksmiami

    @Eolirin: Just wait – if they get 51 senators, they will put a nationwide mom death bill – Abortion ban – and eliminate the filibuster as quick as can be. As I’ve said before, time to flip the game board over. We are not in the same country we were 10 years ago.

  145. 145.

    ksmiami

    @mistermix: The messaging has been tentative, reactive and horrible. That is not beating on our side – that is the fundamental truth. And we need to fix it

  146. 146.

    Gretchen

    The anti-travel nuts forget that lots of people work in one state and live in another. Kansas City is on the state line and thousands of people cross the line in both directions to go to work every day. Planned Parenthood is about a mile from the line. Are they going to have a pregnancy test stop to make sure nobody is getting lunch hour abortions?

  147. 147.

    ksmiami

    @Eolirin: Biden was my first choice, but on the Inferior Court’s overturn of the 21st century, he has been completely hapless and flatfooted. HE IS THE PRESIDENT – He can voice clear, powerful support and he can enlist some of the best marketing minds to do it.

  148. 148.

    kalakal

    @ksmiami: They’ve already got rid of the filibuster where it counts for them, appointment of SCOTUS judges and reconciliation ( tax cuts for their owners bills ), they love it otherwise, lets them block everything. If they want to pass a Breeding Units bill they’ll invent a one off justification.

  150. 150.

    Eolirin

    @mistermix: What he posted does not address what I asked for either.

    I don’t think you’re operating in bad faith btw. I just lack the patience to try to bridge the way you process language and information and how these systems work along with your priors with the way that I do and my priors. We’re operating from very different places.

    For instance when I ask for a statement of opposition I am not making a request for evidence of an unwillingness to actively push for something or explicitly demand it, especially when the person in question does not have direct ability to make that change, I’m asking for an actual statement of opposition. They’re not the same thing to me. 

    It makes trying to talk to you very annoying, because you frequently come across as not actually hearing what I’m saying. That’s partially on me for not being able to adjust to where you’re at, but I’m not willing to put the effort in right now. It’s better to not have the conversation.

  151. 151.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Edmund Dantes: The problem is that the people who want to level valid criticisms of Dems would also tell you that Emails and GoldmanSachs!!1! were valid criticisms.  They broadcast them publicly and then those things get weaponized by the GOP/Russia/Incel Trolls and next thing you know, the rest of us are out in swing districts trying to get people to vote Dem and hearing those exact same arguments as justifications for why they just can’t bring themselves to vote for Dems.  We literally saw this happen in 2016.  I literally know people who voted for Jill Stein and used the same criticisms, verbatim, that Progressives had been screaming throughout the Primary and General Election.  Mainstream and Social Media are all too happy to amplify this shit, and they only do it for us, they never do it to the GOP.  This is an own-goal by our side not knowing when to use our inside voices and keep our shit behind closed doors.  It can turn away large swaths of potential Dem voters and throw elections with razor-thin margins to the GOP.  Don’t believe me?  Just ask Russia.  They saw this tendency on the US Left and weaponized it in 2016.  Our side needs to learn that not every conversation has to be public.  Every criticism doesn’t need to be “on blast.”  Part of being part of an effective coalition is knowing when to hold our tongues, when speaking our opinions can hinder the greater goal.  We’ve already seen what happens when we don’t, and here we are.  Dems and Biden are both down in polls and we need to lift them up to win the Mid Terms and the Presidency in 2024.  That’s it.  That’s the “you had one job” challenge for us .  Anyone who won’t do that work is either standing aside as Democracy dies and the world burns, or even worse, helping to accelerate both.

  153. 153.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @mistermix: Biden pushed for filibuster carve outs on Voting Rights, avoiding default and now Abortion Rights.  This is closer to being pro-reform than any elected President in history.  I don’t think he’d veto legislation if the Senate (which actually makes their rules) abandoned the filibuster.  Manchin, Sinema (and others) are opposed to filibuster reform.  Lumping Biden’s position in with them is disingenuous.  He’s clearly moved (and is moving) more in the right direction.

  155. 155.

    MisterForkbeard

    @schrodingers_cat: I did a similar thing in 2020 when a Bernie or Bust friend of mine was just constantly attacking Biden a couple months before the election. He would do the “vote for biden because he’s a monster pedophile and also a secret republican but Trump is worse” thing, and I when I asked him to just stop attacking the literal only hope for democratic government and to stop using republican sources, he snapped at me repeatedly:

    “When IS it going to be okay to criticize Dear Leader, huh?”

    I told him I was done with him, his drama, and he need to attack the only people with the power and desire to help him and ended that friendship on the spot. I have no patience for that shit anymore.

  156. 156.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @mistermix: Pelosi hasn’t talked about the filibuster before because it’s a Senate rule and she is in the House.  I would expect that her thoughts haven’t change but that the situation is dire enough that she is willing to offer advice to the notoriously thin-skinned other chamber.  FFS!

  158. 158.

    Bill Arnold

    @Betty Cracker:

    As the top appellate lawyer for Cameron, Meredith also successfully defended a state law in the Kentucky Supreme Court that stripped Gov. Beshear of his emergency power to implement COVID-19 restrictions.

    That makes Meredith a mass murderer, beyond a reasonable doubt (3 or more killings; in a 4.5M population, blocking important and effectual public health measures to slow down the spread of a deadly virus has a very very very very very very very high probability of killing more than that.)

  160. 160.

    Citizen Alan

    @Bill Arnold:

    I’m certainly not going to defend this nazi asshat. But the complaint that he “successfully defended” stupid Republican laws before the Kentucky supreme court implies that he actually has some power over the Kentucky Supreme Court. As  opposed to not fucking up the oral arguments to the point that the Kentucky Supreme Court rules against him even though the Kentucky Supreme  Court is ultra conservative and inclined to rule in favor of the Republican side even if the attorney representing it drops his pants and shits on the podium

  161. 161.

    Bill Arnold

    @Citizen Alan:
    Fair enough. It’s just a little disturbing to see a mass murderer nominated. If Biden can guarantee a lot of additional non-radical-right approvals, perhaps with an agreement about ordering the confirmation votes, then it might be worth it.
    FWIT, The Christian Supremacist SCOTUS majority is also responsible for mass death from banning of some important anti-COVID restrictions.

  162. 162.

    Starfish

    @gvg:
    @Miss Bianca:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There are sitting office holders who confirmed TODAY that this decision had been discussed with them.

    I hope, like the person said up thread, that this was leaked, so it could be smashed into the ground.

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