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You are here: Home / Balloon Juice / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Preach, Madam Vice President!

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Preach, Madam Vice President!

by Anne Laurie|  July 3, 202211:49 am| 130 Comments

This post is in: Balloon Juice, Biden Administration in Action, Civil Rights, Commentary, Open Threads, Politics, Proud To Be A Democrat!, Republican Crime Syndicate

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MVP’s answer about coalition building is what makes her a great leader. She understands that not only are our civil rights connected but that the opposition threatens those rights to alienate us from one another. #StrongerTogether pic.twitter.com/Q3izjhu31d

— Renee (@PettyLupone) July 2, 2022

Vice President Kamala Harris on Saturday drew a connection between the Supreme Court overturning the landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling to the legacy of the US government “trying to claim ownership over human bodies” during an appearance at the Essence Festival in New Orleans.

“This is a serious matter,” Harris said of the high court’s elimination last month of the federal constitutional right to an abortion. “And it requires all of us to speak up, to speak out, and to be active.”

Harris participated in a fireside conversation with actress Keke Palmer before an audience of several hundred people at one of the country’s largest African American culture celebrations. During the conversation, she discussed the cyclical fight for civil liberties and the urgency to not take any rights that appear to be protected by “settled law” for granted…

“The statement has been made that the government has a right to come in your home and tell you as a woman and as a family what you should do with your body,” Harris said.

“We have to recognize we’re a nation that was founded on certain principles that are … grounded in the concept of freedom and liberty,” she said.

“We also know we’ve had a history in this country of government trying to claim ownership over human bodies, and we had supposedly evolved from that time and that way of thinking,” the vice president added. “So this is very problematic on so many levels; the impact that it is going to have on women without means.” …

Harris channeled a spirit of hope at the event and touted her work on maternal health while acknowledging more has to be done, especially for Black women.

“Don’t be overwhelmed to the point that we are disheartened, and we think that we can’t do anything about it. It’s the nature of it that these gains will not be permanent, so we must be vigilant, and we must … remember we are always going to have to fight to maintain these rights,” Harris said…

During the fireside discussion, Harris commended young leaders and urged their peers to volunteer, make their voices heard on issues they care about with people in their lives and build coalitions.

“There is power in knowing that the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. See, the people who are trying to attack our rights are trying to make people feel small and feel alone,” Harris said, adding: “Because they want you to believe you don’t have power and that you’re out there by yourself.”

He beat scotus by getting voted in for 4 terms and replacing 8 of the 9 justices. He literally beat them by people voting for him consistently https://t.co/HIQSqDjIy8

— Elisabeth???????????????????? (@foodsevelt) July 2, 2022


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130Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 7:54 am

    See, the people who are trying to attack our rights are trying to make people feel small and feel alone,” Harris said, adding: “Because they want you to believe you don’t have power and that you’re out there by yourself.”

    Preach.

  2. 2.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 3, 2022 at 8:26 am

    Augghhh, I just got twitter-jailed for saying that if ever Confederate officer over the rank of colonel had been hanged, we wouldn’t be dealing with Trumpism today.

  3. 3.

    Scout211

    July 3, 2022 at 8:27 am

    In the “proud to be a Democrat!” category, Governor Newsom is running ads in Florida against DeSantis.

    Newsom now is going on the air against DeSantis in Florida – with what he says is not the first ad of the 2024, or even the 2028, presidential race – with the goal of trying to get Democrats to reclaim a sense of collective identity that could enable them to beat Trumpism in the long term.
    With $105,000 on Fox News, Newsom’s new ad, first provided to CNN and set to air on July 4, is a mashup of a classic campaign spot, business investment pitch and one of those California tourism commercials full of celebrities saying how much better it is there, wrapped in the existential terror that’s wracking progressives these days.

    The ad is paid for by Newsom’s reelection campaign, though this clearly isn’t about racking up potential absentee voters who have retired to the Sunshine State for what’s expected to be an easy win for California governor in November.
    “He’s running for president,” Newsom told CNN last week. “I care about people. I don’t like people being treated as less of them. I don’t like people being told they’re not worthy. I don’t like people being used as political pawns. This is not just about him, but he is the poster child of it.”
    “We’re as different,” Newsom said of both the governors and their states, “as daylight and darkness.”
    Over the course of a 20-minute phone interview, Newsom called DeSantis a bully, a fraud, an authoritarian, a fake conservative, a betrayer of Ronald Reagan’s legacy and, several times, “DeSantos.”

  4. 4.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 8:28 am

    @Scout211:

  5. 5.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 8:41 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: The things people get punished for on twitter and facebook!

  6. 6.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 3, 2022 at 8:43 am

    Good morning, everyone

  7. 7.

    Uncle Cosmo

    July 3, 2022 at 8:43 am

    Preying DeMantis

  8. 8.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 8:45 am

    @Baud: I loved that. And the interviewer was really good! Harris seemed more self-assured and eloquent than before she became VP. I think she’s learning some stuff from Joe, as I believe she has influenced him profoundly.

    ETA: Oh, that was Keke Palmer. Very eloquent.

  9. 9.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @Uncle Cosmo: Good one! Make sure Betty sees it. (Although probably some witty Floridian has coined it already, I don’t know.)

    It would work with “Praying” too.

  10. 10.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 3, 2022 at 8:48 am

    David Hogg:

    FDR didn’t just tell people to vote harder when scotus stood in the way. He took matters into his own hands and called for the expansion of the court. The court is about to end our constitutional republic as we know it with the independent state legislature case. Expand the court

    Elisabeth:

    He beat scotus by getting voted in for 4 terms and replacing 8 of the 9 justices. He literally beat them by people voting for him consistently

    FDR didn’t have state legislatures that had gerrymandered themselves into perpetual GOP legislative majorities regardless of how people vote, that are about to be given control over Presidential elections at the very least.

    Sure, we should by all means vote, and make sure the people we know vote too. BUT the politicians we put in office need to use all the powers at their disposal to fight this battle while it’s still winnable.

    If we hold the House in November, and if we’re no longer dependent on Manchin and Sinema for our Senate majority in January 2023, then yes, we should absofuckinglutely expand the court, so that the GOP’s gerrymandered state legislatures can’t throw the Presidential election in 2024.

  11. 11.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 8:48 am

    @Scout211: I’m not sure how that ad will land with Florida voters, but I appreciate Newsom taking the fight directly to DeSantis and calling him a fraud and a bully and a threat to freedom. It’s the truth and I wish more high-profile Dems would say it that plainly.

  12. 12.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 8:49 am

    @Betty Cracker: It struck me that it would not appeal to Florida people at all.

  13. 13.

    sab

    July 3, 2022 at 8:51 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Banned for speaking truth.

    Have you heard anything yet about Akron police murdering a 25 year old Black Door Dash driver last week? They chased him all the way across town then killed him in a hail of 90 bullets. The body cam footage is being released today, and they are saying that there is no evidence whatever of him threateng the police.

  14. 14.

    Nicole

    July 3, 2022 at 8:51 am

    Good on our VP for clearly making the connection.   Every time I see some (always white and male) Twitter commenter posting a defensive, “bUt iT’s nOt iLLegAL iT’s jUst goNe bAck tO tHe stAtes” I think of how that’s how right wingers also sell the Civil War- it wasn’t about slavery; it was about the states’ rights!  Never mind that it still means ownership of one’s individual body is being dictated by a government, not an individual;.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think most of these losers would have an issue over that, either.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 8:54 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    New rule: Anyone who invokes FDR or LBJ should be muted. Let’s leave fake nostalgia to the GOP.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 8:55 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    and if we’re no longer dependent on Manchin and Sinema for our Senate majority in January 2023, then yes, we should absofuckinglutely expand the court,

     
    I don’t think we’ll have the votes for that unless we sweep the table. 52 won’t be enough.

  17. 17.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 3, 2022 at 8:58 am

    I just saw a post from someone I used to work with that at one time, “experts” said women shouldn’t ride on trains because at speeds over 50mph, their uterus could fly right out of their body. One of my female grad students then commented, “If only.”

    I thought that summarized our current situation pretty well

  18. 18.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:00 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Thanks to the GOP, women are henceforth to be governed by the biology equivalent of flat earthers.

  19. 19.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 3, 2022 at 9:03 am

    And have to resort to thoughts and prayers.

    You know what though, the court decision that I would up thinking about in the night was the one that said coaches, teachers, etc could lead prayers in schools. If I had a child in that school, what would my options be? I for sure don’t share the same religion as that coach does

  20. 20.

    bjacques

    July 3, 2022 at 9:03 am

    @Baud: except, of course, to say “Fuck LBJ”.

  21. 21.

    Tony G

    July 3, 2022 at 9:04 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Hating treasonous slave owners is so un-civil!

  22. 22.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 3, 2022 at 9:08 am

    @Baud:

    I don’t think we’ll have the votes for that unless we sweep the table. 52 won’t be enough.

    I’m sure you’re right, but whatever we get, we should lean on them anyway.  These are not normal times, and our Senators need to wake up to that reality.

    Might be hard to wake Feinstein up, though, since she’s apparently fairly far along the road into dementia.

  23. 23.

    Tony G

    July 3, 2022 at 9:09 am

    @Baud: 52 votes — actually just 50 votes — would be enough if those 52 also voted to eliminate the filibuster.  But the problem, I suppose, is that Manchin and Sinema are just the tip of the iceberg of right-wing Democrats.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:11 am

    @Tony G:

    Yes, as a question of math.  I’m saying there’s not going to be enough support for the idea. That’s my guess, anyway.

    With 52 Dems, I do think there will be enough to protect abortion rights.

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 9:13 am

    @Baud: I’m not sure what remedy can be applied if SCOTUS rules in favor of the independent state legislature doctrine.

  26. 26.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 3, 2022 at 9:13 am

    @Tony G: I wouldn’t characterize anyone in the Senate besides those two as ‘right-wing Democrats’ but Mark Warner is a cautious centrist, and Dianne Feinstein’s ability to grasp concepts is dubious these days.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:15 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Congress can override that, per the Constitution.  That’s what the voting rights act that Dems tried to enact would have done.

    Now, if the GOP 6 ignore the Constitution, then we have a major problem.

  28. 28.

    Scout211

    July 3, 2022 at 9:19 am

    @Betty Cracker:I wish more high-profile Dems would say it that plainly.

    The point that VP Harris made and that Gov. Newsom is trying to make is that it is time for Democrats to resist the constant attempt from the Right to divide the Democrats against each other to make our side weaker.

    It’s no surprise that Newsom picked CNN for a sneak peek of his ad and interview to give the message in the ad a national audience.  This needs to be a nationwide message to Democrats.  We are not all exactly alike (even here on BJ, LOL) but we really need to band together, not pick each other apart.

  29. 29.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 3, 2022 at 9:20 am

    @Baud:

    If the worst happens and the independent state legislature doctrine becomes the law of the land thanks to the GOP 6, what will the Biden administration do come 2024 if they lose thanks to it?

    I suppose immense backlash could overcome it

  30. 30.

    JML

    July 3, 2022 at 9:23 am

    @lowtechcyclist: It’s a shame about DiFi, who was a fine public servant for a long time and an important person in turning California blue (people forget just how red it was), but she needs to be replaced. Dementia is just horrible, a brutal and unrelenting condition. but trying to pretend she can still function does a disservice to everyone.

  31. 31.

    Gvg

    July 3, 2022 at 9:23 am

    @Baud: things go in cycles and gerrymandering and anti gerrymandering reaction with legislation has happened before in our history. I am trying to remember, but I think FDR may have benefited by being closer to right after an anti gerrymandering push whereas we are at a gerrymandering I hope peak, and I hope about to have a back lash.

    We need to tie Gerrymandering to specific corruption I think to get full backlash across political tribal benefit.

  32. 32.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 3, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @sab: I live down in Canton; and I’m pretty gobsmacked about it.

  33. 33.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 9:25 am

    @Baud: Ian Millhiser at Vox says Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch have already signaled a maximalist interpretation of the independent state legislature doctrine and that with the Moore v. Harper case, the fate of democracy may come down to Bony Carrot. If that’s accurate, dog help us!

  34. 34.

    zeecube

    July 3, 2022 at 9:27 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): good morning!

  35. 35.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 3, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I just don’t know what’s going on in their heads, that they don’t think or don’t care that this very well could lead to the next civil war

  36. 36.

    sab

    July 3, 2022 at 9:32 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: My husband has retired Akron police friends amd they are pretty gobsmacked about it also. They say the middle of the night shifts are all police with five or less years experience. Akron only has had bodycams for a little over five years.

  37. 37.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 3, 2022 at 9:34 am

    @Baud:

    Congress can override that, per the Constitution. That’s what the voting rights act that Dems tried to enact would have done.

    The thing is, Congress already passed the Voting Rights Act.  I don’t understand how this cockamamie theory wouldn’t immediately put it back in effect, and invalidate the Bogus Scotus’ undermining of it.

  38. 38.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 3, 2022 at 9:39 am

    @sab:

    That’s absolutely horrible

  39. 39.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 3, 2022 at 9:39 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I used to think that “backlash” would make a difference, that people wouldn’t put up with minority rule forever. I don’t know any more

  40. 40.

    BlueGuitarist

    July 3, 2022 at 9:39 am

    @Baud:

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Don’t forget DC statehood, expanding the Senate, good in itself and helpful in expanding SCOTUS.

    If gerrymandering under control expand the House, also change the reapportionment method replacing the small-state bias of the current formula.

  41. 41.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 3, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Gvg: ​
     

    We need to tie Gerrymandering to specific corruption I think to get full backlash across political tribal benefit.

    I think ‘corruption’ is a bad word choice. People associate that with taking bribes and stuff like that, but not with the wholesale gaming of the system that the GOP is engaged in.

    But ‘gaming the system,’ ‘rigging the game,’ etc. are short, simple, and applicable phrases that people understand.

  42. 42.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 3, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    If that was the expected outcome, do you think the GOP 6, reportedly, would be going maximalist in favor of it?

  43. 43.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 9:41 am

    @Scout211: Newsom’s spot is the top topic on the CNN site, and there are excerpts of an interview. It sounds like he’s hoping to rally Dems behind a more aggressive approach:

    Newsom insists he’s not taking digs at President Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi when he says he’s trying to prod his party into getting angrier and more activated. He called the hearings held by the House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol a “master class” but said Democrats need to be looking past Trump and toward how Trumpism is evolving.

    After spending much of the pandemic watching and reading right-wing media, Newsom said he’s grown more and more alarmed to see how much is taking root.

    “My expression is one of frustration, watching now for many years, in many ways predating the current climate and the current administration,” Newsom said in the interview. “The success of the right to define the terms of the debate, the success of the right to dominate the narrative … they’re winning in ways that are alarming to me.”

    The ad, he promised, will be the start of much more to come.

    “Things have changed, rules of engagement have to change,” Newsom said. “You’ve got to take the fight to them.”

    I think he’s right.

  44. 44.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 3, 2022 at 9:42 am

    @sab: I’ve seen the usual white suspects saying that the victim ran and therefore killing him was appropriate; but that’s it so far.

  45. 45.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    “Things have changed, rules of engagement have to change,” Newsom said. “You’ve got to take the fight to them.”

    Amen to that! I also like how he expressed the need to get more aggressive without attacking our own side. :)

  46. 46.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:45 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    what will the Biden administration do come 2024 if they lose thanks to it?

     
    I don’t know, and I’m not going to ask Biden to tell us.

  47. 47.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 3, 2022 at 9:46 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: White Americans (in general) are perfectly okay with *white* minority rule.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:47 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Newsom insists he’s not taking digs at President Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi when he says he’s trying to prod his party into getting angrier and more activated.

     
    Yet that’s how media and social media will portray it.

    A Dem can’t have an opinion without it been seen as a slam against Dems with different opinions. That’s how they keep us divided.

  49. 49.

    sab

    July 3, 2022 at 9:54 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: The medical examiner shared her notes with the press before she had written any report. The police are releasing all the bodycam footage instead of just three as per usual. The mayor cancelled all the downtown 4th of July festivities, saying celebrations would be inappropriate at this time. There is a press comference with the mayor and our newish police chief scheduled for 1 o’clock. So it doesn’t so far seem like the usual circle the wagons and slander the victim.

    90+ rounds fired, so it seems like every cop involved in the chase fired at the young man.

  50. 50.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 9:55 am

    @Baud:

    That’s how they keep us divided.

    The MSM has certainly made a good living over the years from “Dems in Disarray!”

    That said, I suppose we could try not to cooperate, even on this almost top-10K blog. A difficult undertaking to be sure (moving on from past hurts and prejudices is hard, for myself included), but the fate of our democracy just might be worth the effort.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:56 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    But ‘gaming the system,’ ‘rigging the game,’ etc. are short, simple, and applicable phrases that people understand.

    I’m ok with the phrases, but I think you need to pithily explain how they are gaming the system and rigging the game.  I have the same problem with “corruption.” It is used to cover a lot of activities.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    That said, I suppose we could try not to cooperate, even on this almost top-10K blog.

    I don’t disagree.  But it’s difficult because we don’t have a unified sense of how to distinguish between good-faith debate and activity that intentionally or unintentionally helps the GOP.

  53. 53.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @Baud:

    Yes, the ability to distinguish is critical and difficult. But maybe start with not taking unsubstantiated potshots at “centrists” or rehashing 2016 (which I am guilty of), however justified we might feel.

    Our country is at a perilous tipping point. It seems both reasonable and possible to discuss the merits of proposed rescue plans without slagging each other. More than that, it is imperative. Our democracy’s survival is at stake. We can return to our backbiting games once this crisis is over.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 10:08 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    We can return to our backbiting games once this crisis is over.

    That’s an incentive to win quickly!

  55. 55.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 10:08 am

    @Baud:

    A Dem can’t have an opinion without it been seen as a slam against Dems with different opinions.

    True across the board, and internal tone policing is at a fever pitch these days too: talk about this, not about that. Wouldn’t surprise me if there’s not already an organized effort on Twitter to tell Newsom to sit down and shut up.

  56. 56.

    Suzanne

    July 3, 2022 at 10:08 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    If I had a child in that school, what would my options be? 

    Your choices are to endure it or leave.

    This is how the great sorting happened and continues to happen. Entire areas of the country become inhospitable to people. The problem is that there is simply no way the United States persists as a political entity if that continues to happen. There are places in the country that are so bad that, if I were driving through, I would rather piss in a bush than spend money in a convenience store to use their restroom. I sure as fuck am not going to let them weigh in on how I may live my life. I only begrudgingly want to provide them with Covid vaccines, and that’s because they spread germs like filthy toddlers. And they feel the same about me. I think, at some point, this becomes unsustainable.

  57. 57.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:09 am

    @Baud:

    You perceive my plan.

  58. 58.

    WereBear

    July 3, 2022 at 10:09 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: I’m happy with what works best and suppressing diversity isn’t Democratic. Let everyone do what they do.

    No one thing will save us.

  59. 59.

    rikyrah

    July 3, 2022 at 10:10 am

    Good Morning, Everyone

  60. 60.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:12 am

    @WereBear:

    Hmm, I’m not sure where I suggested suppressing diversity or One Big Fix. Can you explain what you’re responding to?

    My comments stem from the fratricidal battles on BJ (and elsewhere), where MUCH energy is expended slinging blame onto one Democratic faction or another, to the detriment of developing actual policy solutions and strategies.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 10:13 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  62. 62.

    The Truffle

    July 3, 2022 at 10:13 am

    @Betty Cracker: I hope the federal government and Congress have a plan to address all this.

  63. 63.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 3, 2022 at 10:15 am

    @Baud: I’m just looking forward to Newsom being blamed by RoseTwitter/Dirtbag Left if DeSantis wins. /sarcasm

  64. 64.

    The Truffle

    July 3, 2022 at 10:15 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

     

    Just call it cheating.

  65. 65.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:16 am

    @The Truffle:

    Just call it cheating.

    Win!

  66. 66.

    Jesse

    July 3, 2022 at 10:18 am

    I laughed out loud imagining FDR actually saying “vote harder” in his genteel manner.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 10:19 am

    @Jesse:

    October 15, 1944

    Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves—and the only way they could do that is by not voting at all.

  68. 68.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 3, 2022 at 10:21 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Biden wouldn’t be the person with the power to do anything about it. It would be the people in the swing states where their votes got thrown in the bin. (Since this is specifically about presidential electors, they could still presumably do their best to toss out these state legislators if they are dissatisfied. But measures beyond elections might be necessary.)

  69. 69.

    Jesse

    July 3, 2022 at 10:23 am

    @Baud: Great quote. Guy was rock solid. What I had in mind was FDR literally saying “vote harder”. Like this:

    ”I welcome their hatred. So vote harder.”

  70. 70.

    WereBear

    July 3, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: i was agreeing. Sometimes I skip that part Sorry

  71. 71.

    Ksmiami

    July 3, 2022 at 10:27 am

    @Baud: change the numbers required then. This is a fucking war

  72. 72.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:28 am

    @WereBear:

    No worries. I would hate for us to fight over the topic of not-fighting. ;)

  73. 73.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 10:29 am

    @Jesse:

    Literally no one says “vote harder” except for people mocking voting though.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 10:29 am

    @Tony G: There is a lot of speculation about who besides the Terrible Two are reluctant to ditch the filibuster. I think Warner, Feinstein, Tester, King (who won election as an Indepedent) and Coons are in this group. Mark Kelly, Catherine Cortez-Masto and Maggie Hassan won’t be making it a campaign pledge this year and they are smart to do so in their purple states, I think.

    But I do not accept the framing that these are “right wing Democrats.” They could be described as being on the right end of their Senate Caucus, but their votes in total show that they are not “right wing” in it’s general sense, but instead are solidly within their party’s center-left coalition.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 10:31 am

    @Geminid: Everyone except the two have voted to ditch the filibuster for voting rights.  I suspect they would also vote to ditch the filibuster for abortion.  Less clear whether there are the votes to ditch the filibuster for anything else, although once we do it for those two things, the filibuster is all be gone anyway if the GOP ever takes control.

  76. 76.

    sab

    July 3, 2022 at 10:32 am

    @Geminid: Good point.

  77. 77.

    Anyway

    July 3, 2022 at 10:35 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Wisconsin and North Carolina are where the Rethugs pushed this through in the last 10-12 years. Barely any change in the overall R-D split statewide but a supermajority in the gerrymandered legislature and a heavily wingnut state Supreme court in WI. I know the Dems there try to fight them but Rs are ruthless, well-funded and Ds are constantly out-maneuvered. It’s very disheartening.

  78. 78.

    BlueGuitarist

    July 3, 2022 at 10:39 am

    @Baud:

    @Jesse:

    Also FDR on states, voting rights, and congressional responsibility, 1944:

    “Our soldiers and sailors and marines know that the overwhelming majority of them will be deprived of the opportunity to vote, if the voting machinery is left exclusively to the States under existing State laws – and that there is no likelihood of these laws being changed in time to enable them to vote at the next election….. It is the duty of the Congress to remove this unjustifiable discrimination against the men and women in our armed forces – and to do it as quickly as possible.”

    That speech is mostly famous for the “economic Bill of Rights,”

    and also includes warning against “yield[ing] to the spirit of Fascism here at home.”

  79. 79.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 3, 2022 at 10:41 am

    @Anyway: We haven’t yet seen the situation actually play out where the majority in a state gives a clear majority to candidate A, then in December or January the state legislature pulls an accusation of fraud out of their asses (maybe against the governor’s objections) and simply appoints electors for candidate B, and it just stands. Closest was Florida 2000, but there, there was genuine uncertainty about who had won the state. In 2020 there were pushes to do this in several states but the legislators ultimately chickened out–the fake elector slates that did get submitted were not certified by the state.

    I think it might play differently if this actually happened. For many voters, the Presidential election is the only one they care about.

  80. 80.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 10:41 am

    The NYT magazine is assuring us that the “Moderate Democrat” is an endangered species.

    Have they paid the slightest attention to what’s happening in the Republican Party?

  81. 81.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 10:46 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    What is it that Baud so often says?

    Oh yes, the NYT is garbage.

    Unfortunately for us and our democracy, it remains influential garbage.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 10:46 am

    @Baud: The Republicans may need a wave to give them enough votes to end the filibuster. I’m not sure Romney, Collins, and Murkowski would go along (I’m assuming that Murkowski wins reelection this year, and I think she will). Those three are incentivized to preserve the filibuster because it makes them essential parts of any 60 vote super majority. One could say they are like my Senator Mark Warner, at risk for “Gang” membership.

  83. 83.

    The Thin Black Duke

    July 3, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @Suzanne: The biggest danger about these assholes that make the places they live uninhabitable is they want to make the rest of the United States the same. No place to run, no place to hide.

  84. 84.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @Baud: Maybe, but the fact is, the filibuster protects Senate Republicans, which McConnell knows even if the mouth-breathers don’t, so he doesn’t want it to go away. He may have no choice if Dems force his hand, but it will not redound to the GOP’s benefit, and McConnell understands that.

  85. 85.

    Immanentize

    July 3, 2022 at 10:52 am

    Just a quick drop in. A while ago I wrote a longish article about rape and race of victim prosecutions, with a heavy reliance on the civil war amendments. I am now working on a sequel for our times about rape and no abortion. I already have a great title, but I am holding it back for the moment.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @Immanentize:

    Oh, I’m glad. Please link when you have it.

  87. 87.

    Suzanne

    July 3, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @The Thin Black Duke: Agreed. And that is inherently unstable.

    And saying that the solution is to vote is both correct and incomplete. Our opponents are not committed to the peaceful transfer of power and they have been amassing firearms. Even if we do outvote them, it requires misplaced faith in norms and process and “comity” and traditions to think that we’re ever going to be allowed to exercise power again.

  88. 88.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 10:58 am

    @zhena gogolia: They are not paying too much attention to what is happening in the Democratic party either. I won’t read the article, but I’m guessing the writer cherry picked some examples and mischaracterized others. I could write that article myself if I wanted to prove that Dems are in disarray.

  89. 89.

    zhena gogolia

    July 3, 2022 at 11:01 am

    @Geminid: Aren’t about 85% of our congresspeople moderates?

  90. 90.

    dww44

    July 3, 2022 at 11:08 am

    Just watched CBS legal correspondent, Jan Crawford, on Face The Nation talking about the SC and overturning Roe v Wade.  She was carrying water for the SC 6 and saying that they didn’t outlaw abortion but returned it to the states as it wasn’t mentioned in the constitution. And  if the Congress was so disfunctuonal that it couldn’t legislate on the problem ( no mention of why) then so be it.

    She noted that a majority of the states were passing laws to prevent/outlaw abortion, implying that that is the democratic process. She was not critical of the SC majority,  nor did she share any of the dissenting views.  She’s endorsing the former’s originalism.  CBS is courting the right. Woe be to the country.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 11:11 am

    @dww44: That’s not wrong.  It’s simply not how they would react if liberal justices ever overruled gun rights and said states could well regulate the well-regulated militia.  They wouldn’t talk about returning it to the states or the democratic process.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 11:14 am

    @Suzanne:

    And saying that the solution is to vote is both correct and incomplete.

    IMHO the message should be (1) everyone needs to vote for their Democratic candidates and (2) here’s what else those who can do more should do.

    The number of people who are able or willing to do (2) will be a fraction of those who are able and willing to do (1).  But (1) and (2) should never be in conflict.

  93. 93.

    Suzanne

    July 3, 2022 at 11:17 am

    @Baud: I can be on board with that.

    The hurdle is that (2) may be as extreme as “prepare for a civil war”, or “flee the country for your safety”, or at the very least “move your children to a blue area”.

  94. 94.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 11:18 am

    @zhena gogolia: The House Democratic Caucus has three “ideological” caucuses. The Progressive Caucus numbers ~96 members, the New Democrat Coalition has ~ 96, and the notorious Blue Dog Caucus has 19 (down from 25 in 2020). Some members are in two different caucuses, and some like Joyce Beatty and Lauren Underwood are not affiliated with any.

    While the New Democrat Coalition is considered “moderate,” and the Progressive Caucus is considered “liberal,” their members overlap considerably on policy matters. To some extent membership is more a matter of branding that is conditioned by the electorate in the member’ district. The same is true of the Blue Dogs.

    The special masters who ended up drawing Virginia’s new Congressional map did me a big favor when they made Greene County the southwest corner of the new 7th CD. Abigail Spanberger is the incumbent and a member of the Blue Dog Caucus. The Blue Dogs can be very controversial in forums like this one, but I think if I took a typical 7th District Democrat aside a told them, “You know, Spanberger’s a Blue Dog, don’t you?” they would answer, “What’s a Blue Dog?”

  95. 95.

    Immanentize

    July 3, 2022 at 11:22 am

    @Baud: voting is a necessary condition precedent, but not sufficient.

  96. 96.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 11:23 am

    @dww44:

    It’s such dumb, facile “legal analysis”. As if “returning it to the states” is enough thought or analysis – they’re going to have to work a lot harder than they’re working at this. It’s complex. It’s a profound, radical change that will affect womens health care in red states and blue states and filter into many other areas of law. There are huge privacy issues for women coming up – enforcement involves tracking and collecting information. That’s just one aspect.

    This kind of OBTUSE insistence that this is just limited to “abortion”, as if you “ban it” and that’s the end of the discussion,  is incredible- just repeating these slogans. Useless, lazy mush.

    There will be more and varied lawsuits and legal challenges over banning abortion than we have seen around this issue, ever. It is a PROFOUND change that is already compelling substandard medical care for women who have miscarriages.

    They gotta up their game. “Back to the states” as “legal analysis” simply isn’t going to cut it.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    July 3, 2022 at 11:24 am

    @Kay: For when you are trapped with nothing else to read:
    Rape as a Badge of Slavery.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 11:28 am

    @dww44:

    You know, maybe it doesn’t matter. Americans live in the “states” this is “going to back to”. If CBS can’t be bothered to explain or explore any of the profound legal issues banning abortion raises or find and hire someone who can I guess Americans will figure it out as it happens.

    Maybe we’ll finally realize these “analysts” add very little value and go back to paying for actual reporting. In “the states”, which are, you know, in America.

  99. 99.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 3, 2022 at 11:35 am

    @Baud: Voting is the first step of an engaged and civic minded citizen. It is not the be all and the end all of politics.
    Attending class does not guarantee you an A. But if you skip class your chances of getting a failing grade are pretty high

    Most of the leftier-than-thou advocating against voting or saying that they voted sound to me like students who complain that they should get an A because they attended lab/class.

  100. 100.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 11:39 am

    @Geminid: There are also many issue caucuses in Congress. Rep. Sharice Davids (KS-3rd)  works with three Republicans in the Native American Caucus. And Massachusetts Representative Katherine Clark, the fourth ranking member of the Democrats’ leadership team, is in the Cranberry Caucus which I think is kind of neat.

  101. 101.

    dww44

    July 3, 2022 at 11:39 am

    @Kay: She actually opined that for women nothing would change in Blue states.  Didn’t talk about the marginalized women  in those 26 Red States.  It’s like she got her talking points directly from the SC 6 themselves.  This was not even “Broderism”.  Who among us doesn’t believe the right will not stop at “leaving this to the states” ?

  102. 102.

    The Truffle

    July 3, 2022 at 11:43 am

    @Anyway: WI Dems are led by Ben Wikler, who seems like a good leader.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 11:47 am

    @dww44:

    It’s this weird, elite denial “nothing WILL CHANGE!”

    Yeah, keep telling yourself that. It’s also sexist as hell, frankly. This is all the loss of basic bodily autonomy for women deserves? This lazy, millimeter deep, hand waving about “the states?” It’s not even accurate. Republicans will absolutely introduce federal laws banning abortion and they are likely to pass. So is she’s in the predictions business maybe “nothing will change” is a bad prediction, just like all the tendentious lectures women got from this same set of people that Roe would never be overturned were dead wrong. Maybe step back a bit, read and listen a little and let this unfold before breezily announcing it’s no big deal? She’s wrong. It is now and will be a big deal. It was never just about abortion. We will now find that out.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 11:49 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Denise Oliver-Velez, a more responsible and experienced leader on the progressive side, put the matter very concisely through Twitter on June 28:

       If anyone needs more of a plan than “crush and defeat the Klan”- they be asleep, oblivious, privileged, or racist

    Ms. Oliver-Velez made a very strong 13 part tweet along these lines more recently that was disseminated widely through retweets, particularly by Black Democrats.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 11:52 am

    @dww44:

    Has she considered what she’s saying? “Nothing will change for women in blue states” means that if women want a full set of rights to bodily autonomy they have to remain in those states. 

    That’s a change. She’s breezily announcing women are now limited to half the states if they want a full set of rights and this is NOT A CHANGE to her? It’s fucking moronic. Maybe they all should all stop talking for 5 minutes and examine what they spout and see if it makes any sense.

  106. 106.

    superdestroyer

    July 3, 2022 at 11:54 am

    Image how bad the situation will be for women who want access to abortion if President Biden decides not to run for re-election and the Democrats nominate Harris.  Not only will Harris lose in a rout but Democrats will lose House and Senate seats.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 11:56 am

    @Kay:

    She’s telling white women in blue states that they shouldn’t abandon their race over this.  Nothing more.

  108. 108.

    Anyway

    July 3, 2022 at 11:58 am

    @The Truffle:

    Yes, WI Dems are fighting hard but having an extreme wingnut court handicaps them considerably.

  109. 109.

    Suzanne

    July 3, 2022 at 12:00 pm

    @Kay:

    “Back to the states” as “legal analysis” simply isn’t going to cut it. 

    “Back to the states” as a mindshift is also…. a really big fucking thing. It’s an identity issue that underlies a lot.

    The social contract is built on a foundation of a shared identity as Americans. Not as Texans or Californians or Georgians or whatever. If they start breaking this apart, literally saying that I only have bodily rights in some places, other things will break, too. Like, I don’t want to pay for Medicare or Social Security for people in red states. Why should I? I’m not an American, I’m a Pennsylvanian.

  110. 110.

    dww44

    July 3, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    @Kay: Thank you for you responses.  You say it so much better and with more insight than I ever could.  When I watch CBS and other mainstream media, mostly I come away with how they almost always go for the facile answers.  We really do need a non-profit MSM arm in this country that is not subject to the whims and funding threats from either corporations or politicians.  When I think of Crawford sitting there with a fake smile on her face while spouting these SC talking points, I just wanta punch through the tv screen.

  111. 111.

    Betty Cracker

    July 3, 2022 at 12:03 pm

    @Geminid: I read something the other day that led me to believe Spanberger lucked out and drew a kook as her GOP opponent. I suppose that’s not good for the district because that person has a non-zero chance of winning, but it’s better for Spanberger’s chances.

    My House district will be decided in the Republican primary, and Republicans will either renominate the boring, corrupt old Bible-humper Daniel Webster, who’s been in GOP politics since the 1980s, or far-right lunatic Laura Loomer. I suspect he’ll prevail, mostly on the strength of sexism and prejudice against people who aren’t from this region. (Loomer swooped in to run this race from South Florida, which many locals regard as an alien region on par with NYC.)

  112. 112.

    Southern Goth

    July 3, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Baud:

    It sounded like a blue-state “I’ve got mine, fuck you.”

  113. 113.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Immanentize:

    @Kay:

    What Kay said. Please share when you can.

  114. 114.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 12:06 pm

    Speculation about potential Presidential candidates is another crabapple of discord people toss in hopes of getting Democrats to fight with each other.

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    July 3, 2022 at 12:07 pm

    @Kay: I saw that an anti- abortion woman on Twitter said that if only pro-choice advocates hadn’t insisted on “abortion on demand” there might have been “enough mercy” so that 10-year-olds wouldn’t have to bear their abuser’s baby. It’s abuser language – “You made us pass these laws!” Their masks, at least what was left of them, are really coming off now. For them, making abortion illegal is all about punishing the sluts. I’ve been telling people this for years, but most discounted it “They really care about life”, I’d hear. No they don’t,  that is abundantly clear. They have only ever cared about forcing their “morals” on everyone.

  116. 116.

    Anyway

    July 3, 2022 at 12:08 pm

    @Geminid:

    Yes. Walk away from the troll. Do not engage…

  117. 117.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    @Southern Goth:

    The GOP motto.

  118. 118.

    Baud

    July 3, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    @Anyway:

  119. 119.

    Anyway

    July 3, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    @Soprano2:

    “Abortion on demand” is the anti-choicers coinage. As usual their idea of what Libs want is BS.

  120. 120.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 3, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    @Geminid:

    “Crabapple of discord”

    Excellent term that fits both gardening and political threads. :)

  121. 121.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 12:14 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Republicans chose Prince William County Supervisor Yesli Vega to run against Spanberger. I thought State Senator Bryce Reeves would have been a stronger candidate, but Vega won with the endorsements of Ted Cruz, Ken Cuccinelli, the odious 5th CD congressman Bob (No)Good, and Ginni Thomas. It was a low turnout primary. Republicans seem to hope that Vega will help strengthen the Republican Latino vote.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    July 3, 2022 at 12:24 pm

    @Anyway:

    Ds are NOT constantly out-maneuvered in Wisconsin.  Ben Wikler and the Wisconsin Dems pulled off some great stuff in 2020.

  123. 123.

    Southern Goth

    July 3, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    I’m unclear, legally speaking, exactly when a uterus becomes property of a state, because that seems like where we’re heading.

    Is it when you get your driver’s license, register to vote, set foot in a state, rent an air bnb, pass through an airport?

    Which laws will apply when a uterus can  belong to two states?

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    July 3, 2022 at 12:30 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: Intersectional analysis is key these days.

  125. 125.

    Skepticat

    July 3, 2022 at 12:31 pm

    @Baud: Now, if because the GOP 6 ignore ignores the Constitution, then we have a major problem.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    July 3, 2022 at 12:33 pm

    @dww44:

    Propublica is starting a section devoted to election administration in all the states. The formerly boring subject of election administration that conservatives turned into a giant, roiling ball of conspiracy theories and nonsense. So that’s good. All the for profits can steal their work.

  127. 127.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 3, 2022 at 1:14 pm

    @Geminid: I have bookmarked that thread.

  128. 128.

    J R in WV

    July 3, 2022 at 2:39 pm

    @Kay: ​
    I really appreciate your educational comments about the many subsidiary implications of the end of Roe protections for women’s health. Once you think about them, the full horror of the whole RW fascist agenda comes home! Tracking the movements of fertile women, of activists, the purchases of feminine hygene products, etc.

    Horrible to contemplate, but necessary. Thanks again!!

  129. 129.

    livewyre

    July 3, 2022 at 2:47 pm

    PSA: @superdestroyer was working a previous thread here from a racial-strife angle and could really use a ban. Unfortunately the contact form doesn’t seem to be working.

  130. 130.

    Denali

    July 3, 2022 at 7:20 pm

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