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You are here: Home / Domestic Terrorism / Late Night Open Thread: Wouldn’t SCA / Larping Have Been More… Sensible?

Late Night Open Thread: Wouldn’t SCA / Larping Have Been More… Sensible?

by Anne Laurie|  July 24, 20221:36 am| 62 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Terrorism, Open Threads

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"Patriot front" incels training in Utah.
Where do I begin with this. My grandma hits harder.
you can see the rest of the clips on https://t.co/q8EetLwF5D pic.twitter.com/Dzoxiip3YQ

— ALT-immigration (@ALT_uscis) July 21, 2022

3/ if you ant to dive into the patriot front data leak. link below.
I spent to hours on it and I can't stop laughinghttps://t.co/oEHfWbpFcA

— ALT-immigration (@ALT_uscis) July 21, 2022

There are gaming stores in Utah, guys!

you laugh but this is why they need guns with high-capacity magazines https://t.co/wK4WkQfgP3

— Sen. Lemon Gogurt (I – Podcastia) (@Ugarles) July 21, 2022

Late Night Open Thread: Wouldn't SCA  / Larping Have Been More... Sensible?

If I didn't know better I'd think this was about current events. https://t.co/tVbItCQYCl

— K. Chen (@tznkai) July 21, 2022

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Reader Interactions

62Comments

  1. 1.

    Penn

    July 24, 2022 at 1:44 am

    As an SCA-person and a LARPer, that’s the first time I’ve heard either called sensible. In the context I guess it fits though. :)

  2. 2.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 24, 2022 at 1:47 am

    Ya know what? Fuck these jamokes.

    Here’s Pepper Persley as a sideline reporter for the WNBA. Pepper is 11.

  3. 3.

    Anne Laurie

    July 24, 2022 at 1:54 am

    @Penn: As an SCA-person and a LARPer, that’s the first time I’ve heard either called sensible. In the context I guess it fits though. :)

    Many of my (our) dearest friends from college are SCAdians!  We had a medieval-themed wedding, back in the early 1990s, because if I was gonna spend that much money on a dress, I wanted one I could use again!

    (But actually, the title is a personal call-back to an old Doonesbury strip, where Virginia asks her aspiring boyfriend Clyde, Wouldn’t a Gremlin have been more sensible? )

  4. 4.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 1:54 am

    @HumboldtBlue: Why are all the best reporters in sports? Very good, and even younger than Ezra Klein when he started.

  5. 5.

    eclare

    July 24, 2022 at 1:58 am

    My cousin is heavily involved with SOLAR which is an SCA type group.  I asked why he wasn’t in SCA, and he said SCA is a 501(c)(3) group, so they have to do a number of charitable projects.  SOLAR is not.

    Now that he is around sixty, he said he plans to stop participating and to sell the two branches that he owns.

  6. 6.

    eclare

    July 24, 2022 at 2:00 am

    @HumboldtBlue:   Impressive young lady!

  7. 7.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:06 am

    Re SCA : What is the medievalist society that was not focused on nobility? My baby sister used to be active in that one.

  8. 8.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 24, 2022 at 2:13 am

    @sab:

    Because it’s one of the best ways to learn how to report.

    Sports reporting offers one great advantage for reporters.

    You know who is playing, you know when they are going to play, and you have a general sense of who is actually going to play that game.

    You have some advance knowledge of what will take place at a basic level — a high school coach hands you a lineup card — and in the end there will be a result, a concrete result, win or lose, that gets reported.

    It’s a great training ground. Reporting is hard, daily news reporting is very hard, and daily sports news reporting is a great way to learn how hard it is.

    The interviews, the pre-game calls, the in-game notes, the post-game chase for a reaction, a word, a quote.

    Sports is theater, drama, conflict, learning how to watch and understand that dynamic means you can then learn to report on the courts (known players, conflict, result) or the legislature, or the water board, wherever there is conflict, you’ve learned that there is always another story to tell.

    There is always something more.

  9. 9.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:24 am

    @HumboldtBlue: And their audience wants facts, not spin

    ETA I got goosebumps watching her. So young, so professional.

  10. 10.

    SpaceUnit

    July 24, 2022 at 2:26 am

    Lotta anger boils up when a dude realizes deep down that he’ll probably never get laid.

  11. 11.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:28 am

    @SpaceUnit: Idiot. Cheapskate. There are professionals out there.

    ETA Incels can always get laid. They will just have to pay for it. This isn’t rocket science.

  12. 12.

    Soprano2

    July 24, 2022 at 2:31 am

    I read on Twitter that at the Turning Point conference TFG said he wanted to give himself the Congressional Medal of Honor but was told it would be inappropriate. 🤮🤮🤮🤮 That is so gross. How anyone who has been in the military can support him I will never understand.

  13. 13.

    eclare

    July 24, 2022 at 2:36 am

    @Soprano2:   In 2004 somehow John Kerry’s service in Vietnam became a negative.  I have no idea.

  14. 14.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:37 am

    @Soprano2: What a demented jerk. If you give yourself a medal it means nothing  beyond you like yourself.

    We really should focus on not electing madmen to run our country.

  15. 15.

    SpaceUnit

    July 24, 2022 at 2:37 am

    @sab:

    Please.  These bozos live in their moms’ basement.  They can barely afford bus fair to the klan meeting.

    ETA:  And if they ever got a windfall they’d blow it on guns.

  16. 16.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:41 am

    @SpaceUnit: You have a point. Maybe Mom should spend money on hookers not assault rifles.

  17. 17.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 24, 2022 at 2:41 am

    Women’s 4×100 Team USA world champions!

  18. 18.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 2:51 am

    @HumboldtBlue: Everyone can say that we had home field advantage, but these guys broke many world records.

    I wasn’t much interested, but my spouse was a high school track star, and he has been thrilled. The girls outran everything he ever did. While jumping hurdles. He is so proud of them.

  19. 19.

    Mallard Filmore

    July 24, 2022 at 3:12 am

    @sab: 

    ETA Incels can always get laid. They will just have to pay for it.

    That is sad, and I mean that without scorn. The only human comfort they will know is what they can buy.

  20. 20.

    sab

    July 24, 2022 at 3:14 am

    @Mallard Filmore: Sad, but better than them mass slaughtering in frustration.

  21. 21.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 24, 2022 at 3:25 am

    Speaking of sports reporting, here’s Jim Salisbury.

    Castellanos if he heard the boos tonight. “No man I lost my hearing…that’s a stupid question.” Big Money Bum has lost his hearing and his ability to hit.

  22. 22.

    BeautifulPlumage

    July 24, 2022 at 3:32 am

    Oof, went down the rabbit hole…one file has 63 images of lost & found items, probably a PF camping thingy. Looks like the incels left sleeping bags, tents, tent parts, neck pillows…a very organized bunch.

     

    And watching them flail about trying to hang a banner on an overpass? Lovely.

     

     

     

    left tents, sleeping bags, tent parts, neck pillows,

  23. 23.

    something fabulous

    July 24, 2022 at 3:36 am

    I will say, I was actually *in* a Ren Faire for two summers in the 90s and we had to learn stage combat for the various melees and things, and all of our wenches and drunken sailors and mud beggars looked far more ferocious than this, in costume OR in sweatpants still in rehearsal.

    Huzzah.

  24. 24.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 24, 2022 at 4:07 am

    @Soprano2: That would’ve have been hilariously bizarre if Trump had done that. I can see him having the medal on a cardboard cut out of himself.

  25. 25.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 24, 2022 at 4:13 am

    If they these Patriot Front bois joined something like the SCA/HEMA/MMA they would be involved in an actual martial art, with rules and lots of  people are who more skilled at it than they are, plus the usual, get your ars kicked a lot until you get good.  This way they can pose as bad ass in their own little pond without having to work at it.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    July 24, 2022 at 4:58 am

    @Soprano2

    TFG said he wanted to give himself the Congressional Medal of Honor

    The word Congressional is outright strike one; award nominees are voted on by act of Congress. That it applies only to recipients active in the military at the time of their achievement(s) (the c-in-c is not a military rank, it is a civilian status position), that’s strike two. The standards for consideration are strike three:

    Public Law 88–77, July 25, 1963: The requirements for the Medal of Honor were standardized among all the services, requiring that a recipient had “distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty.” Thus, the act removed the loophole allowing non-combat awards to Navy personnel. The act also clarified that the act of valor must occur during one of three circumstances:

    1. While engaged in action against an enemy of the United States
    2. While engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force.
    3. While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. Source

    Theoretically* the Congressional Gold Medal could be voted on to be awarded.

    *(much //)

  27. 27.

    Tony Jay

    July 24, 2022 at 5:20 am

    Is the SCA the one that’s “The Middle Ages as they should have been”?

    Tell you what, though. In the event of civilisational collapse and the kind of ‘freedom to be yourself’ these incels think they crave, my money is on the guys and gals in the chainmail and surcoats.

  28. 28.

    Rusty

    July 24, 2022 at 5:32 am

    @sab: They could meet someone, but that would require being a decent person, thinking of the other person, compromise and more.  It’s also requires being realistic.  They won’t, like the rest of us, be dating a supermodel, and that person isn’t going to cater to your every need.  That all take work and change.  They would go up a lot just in the attempt.  There is someone out there for each of them, they are just to lazy and self centered to find them.

  29. 29.

    Marmot

    July 24, 2022 at 6:20 am

    Are PF members self-described incels?

  30. 30.

    eclare

    July 24, 2022 at 6:22 am

    @Marmot:   What does PF mean?  I googled it, no luck.

  31. 31.

    Tony Jay

    July 24, 2022 at 6:26 am

    @eclare:

    Patriot Front. The paramilitary cosplay wing of Reddit’s Incel sub-culture.

  32. 32.

    eclare

    July 24, 2022 at 6:29 am

    @Tony Jay:  Thanks!  I was trying to work out how it could be Proud Boys with no luck.

  33. 33.

    raven

    July 24, 2022 at 6:31 am

    @Soprano2: Maybe because there is no such thing as “The Congressional Medal of Honor”?

     

    The medal is normally awarded by the president of the United States, but as it is presented “in the name of the United States Congress”, it is often referred to (erroneously) as the “Congressional Medal of Honor”

  34. 34.

    Geminid

    July 24, 2022 at 6:36 am

    @BeautifulPlumage: In the aftermath of 31 Patriot Front members getting arrested in Cour D’Alene(sp?) Idaho, reporters Patrick Malone and Jim Brunner of The Seattle Times wrote an article about Patriot Front and its local members. It’s a good, long article titled “Patriot Front arrests in Idaho unmask a new generation of hate groups” June 19 2022.

    Evidently most PF members have jobs, and a few have girlfriends. PF members are told to keep their affiliation on the downlow; when they go on these weekend trainings they are instructed to tell family or girlfriends that they are just going camping.

    The exercise in the first video looks like it’s directed at imaginary Antifa opponents. This may never amount to more than a recruiting and bonding exercise, but I think the organizers have bigger things in mind for the future. Then they won’t be leaving their firearms at home.

    Something else that stands out in these videos is that the PF guys favor khakis and polo shirts even for training, and they also affect the hitler haircut- long on top and short on the sides

  35. 35.

    Tony Jay

    July 24, 2022 at 6:37 am

    @eclare:

    From the looks of it these are the runts who couldn’t get into the Proud Boys because their fake IDs weren’t convincing enough to fool the doormen at Hooters.

  36. 36.

    raven

    July 24, 2022 at 6:37 am

    The name of the Medal is simply “Medal of Honor” — the word “Congressional” is sometimes mistakenly used because the Medal was created by Congress; however, the Medal is purely a military award. The Congressional Medal of Honor Society was chartered by Congress, which is why the word Congressional precedes the Society’s name.

  37. 37.

    Shalimar

    July 24, 2022 at 7:02 am

    @sab: Even the most pathetic, worthless guys make a positive impression on a handful of women a year, and vice versa. It’s about finding someone we’re happy with, not winning a beauty contest.

    Incels’ problem is they obsess so much about “hot” women who can’t stand them that they can’t pick up signals from those who might be interested with any effort at all.

  38. 38.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    July 24, 2022 at 7:15 am

    A good analysis of that sort of mindset can be found by feeding the term “Objectivist jerky” into your search engine of choice. John Scalzi is discussing taxes-as-theft libertarians, but the analysis is also good for these Patriot Front cosplay guerillas.

    Alternatively, play through the original Bioshock.

  39. 39.

    Feathers

    July 24, 2022 at 7:15 am

    @Rusty: And one of the tragedies is that if one of them does meet an actual human woman who would make a good life partner, the guy’s friends will bully him and run her off. Saw it happen many times. An actual woman who is a match in attractiveness is a danger to the fantasy of the perfect woman (and the friend group) so there is huge pressure about how ugly she is and he can do better. Tragic.

  40. 40.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    July 24, 2022 at 7:20 am

    And as for TFG awarding himself a Medal of Honor, I’m reminded of the old Soviet joke:

    ”Was that an earthquake?!”

    ”No, just Comrade Brezhnev’s greatcoat falling off its hangar.”

  41. 41.

    MagdaInBlack

    July 24, 2022 at 7:21 am

    @BeautifulPlumage: I fell down that rabbit hole too. That was probably me you heard snickering and snorting in disgust.

  42. 42.

    Ken

    July 24, 2022 at 7:27 am

    @Tony Jay: Is the SCA the one that’s “The Middle Ages as they should have been”?

    To steal a line from Neil Gaiman, if they really wanted to re-create the Middle Ages, they’d spray you with shit as you walk through the gate.

    (Hob Gadling in “Sunday Mourning“.)

  43. 43.

    Tony G

    July 24, 2022 at 8:09 am

    These dweebs re-enacting their favorite gladiator movies.

  44. 44.

    Tony G

    July 24, 2022 at 8:19 am

    @SpaceUnit: The irony is that most of these idiots WOULD get laid if they were willing and able to treat women like people instead of treating them like a collection of body parts.  People — even these jerks — CAN change for the better if they are willing to try.  But these guys are happy in their misogynistic, fascist world.  They have made their choice and they do not want to change.

  45. 45.

    Liminal Owl

    July 24, 2022 at 8:37 am

    @sab: The Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia?

    @Tony Jay: Good choice. Though, alas, it brings to mind a guy I knew in early 1980, who wanted to marshal a group of SCA fighters to go rescue the hostages in Iran.  (For that matter, he was the one who told me of Marklanders.)

  46. 46.

    Anne Laurie

    July 24, 2022 at 9:16 am

    @Ken: As I’ve heard any time in the last fifty years:  It’s the Society for Creative Anachronism, not for Compulsive Authenticity!

  47. 47.

    Tony G

    July 24, 2022 at 9:27 am

    @Tony G: (Why, yes — I did take Psychology 101 in 1974.)

  48. 48.

    lofgren

    July 24, 2022 at 9:34 am

    When I was younger, I took boxing through the YMCA and martial arts through a theater program near my house.

    I don’t think these guys are starved for other ways to find male companionship and train to toughen themselves up, if that’s what they want.

    Looking at them, I’d say it’s pretty clear they are not looking for companionship or training. They are looking to LARP once a month doing fake military drills.

    If their goal was actually to learn a skill and make friends, they would look like people who put up their dukes more than once a decade.

  49. 49.

    Miss Bianca

    July 24, 2022 at 10:23 am

    @Anne Laurie: I quoted another Doonesbury cartoon at a neighbor the other night – “your loss, Toots!” – which only earned me a bemused stare and a rambling on about how his dad used to use the word “Toots”.

    Oh, well. I would use the excuse, “I’m old,” for the apparent comprehension gap, but this particular neighbor is older than me. (And drunker, now I come to think of it.)

  50. 50.

    The Pale Scot

    July 24, 2022 at 10:45 am

    Love the CV. “Fit, not overweight, can benchpress 135lb

    That’s me ……………..in eight grade

  51. 51.

    WaterGirl

    July 24, 2022 at 11:08 am

    @Soprano2:

    TFG said he wanted to give himself the Congressional Medal of Honor.

    Oh my god.  The pathetic man is a caricature of his awful self.

  52. 52.

    CaseyL

    July 24, 2022 at 11:27 am

    I was involved in the SCA for a few years, as my then-boyfriend was a swordmaker.   Since he was a Merchant, we didn’t get directly involved in the court drama – and, boy howdy, was there a lot of that!  It struck me that people join organizations like the SCA for fun – and then, the longer they’re involved, the more seriously they take it, and bring to it all the stuff they were hoping to escape from: the status seeking, the competitiveness, the backbiting and scandal-mongering, etc. etc.  It was amusing but also sad.

    I was in/around the SCA long enough that I stopped thinking of the outfits we wore as “costumes,” they  were just “clothes.”  I do love medieval fashion, especially for women: very comfortable (no corsets!), and flattering to nearly all body types.

    I love history, and enjoy being in that kind of milieu – though for a long time, I was hoping to find a similar organization that centered on the Ancient World.  I would love to have found a cosplay group for, say, the Minoans/Mycaeneans.  Never did, possibly because there isn’t enough information about those societies to make a framework.

    Anyway, my long-winded point is one I made in the first paragraph:  People sometimes get into these organizations to escape their regular-life blues, but wind up recreating the problems they had in their regular lives.

  53. 53.

    VOR

    July 24, 2022 at 11:38 am

    @WaterGirl: He gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to such worthies as Rush Limbaugh, Devin Nunes, and Gym Jordan.

  54. 54.

    Trine

    July 24, 2022 at 11:51 am

    @Liminal Owl: i was waiting for someone to name Markland! Those were good times…!

  55. 55.

    Helen

    July 24, 2022 at 11:53 am

    @Geminid: This is enlightening information. I think dismissing these Nazi’s as inept and laughable is wrong. They are learning and will become more skillful.  We will regret ignoring the danger they represent

  56. 56.

    Taliesin WW

    July 24, 2022 at 12:20 pm

    @CaseyL: ​
     
    I don’t know how many years ago you were SCA, but in the last decade there has been a lot of expansion: we have Native American personas, more Asian and East Asian personas, as archeology digs deeper and access to it expands, we have expanded too. Also the obscure groups embedded geographically in the bread and butter groups have more focus: sure you can be Norse still, but being Sami is pretty cool also. DEI Officer is a position now. The rules about only European heraldry have been modified to include the rest of the world. And as more people do Aztec or Mongol etc., they pave the way and provide resources to the other people who wanted to but didn’t know where to start to find information.
    So if you want to take a peek at your local chapter, and see if you can find some support to be Ancient Minoan or Sumerian or whatever, I can say you will most likely be the first, but that you will likely find people supporting your efforts.

  57. 57.

    Chris T.

    July 24, 2022 at 12:39 pm

    @sab:

    Why are all the best reporters in sports?

    Sports reporters are (a) professional reporters who are (b) read by sports fans and hence must be accurate.

    Other reporters meet criterion (a) but not (b): their readers know nothing of what they’re reporting on and hence they don’t have to be good. Others (e.g., bloggers) may write for fans, meeting (b), but don’t meet criterion (a).

  58. 58.

    eddie blake

    July 24, 2022 at 12:57 pm

    @Chris T.: not to mention all the money involved. people gambling on the games need the numbers and facts straight.

  59. 59.

    Ruckus

    July 24, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    @sab:

    Yes, but. They don’t seem smart enough to actually make money working, so how are they going to pay for it?

  60. 60.

    Ruckus

    July 24, 2022 at 4:24 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    “The pathetic man is a caricature of his awful self.”

    What would you expect, he’s not smart, he’s not good, and he thinks the world revolves around the stick he put up his own……

  61. 61.

    jackmac

    July 24, 2022 at 6:51 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: As a former sportswriter I couldn’t agree more.

  62. 62.

    MinuteMan

    July 24, 2022 at 7:08 pm

    @Rusty: Even the odious Steven Miller found a wife and together they can dream of a life where they can commit crimes against humanity together.  A happy ending?

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