Big Liz Cheney story this weekend from the AP:
And while her allies may be optimistic about her long-term future, Cheney would certainly like to avoid a blowout loss next month in her home state.
It won’t be easy.
Facing consistent and credible death threats, she has been forced to abandon traditional retail campaigning, trading public rallies and town halls for private events where her presence is often revealed to the public only after their conclusion, if at all.
She has essentially been excommunicated by the Wyoming Republican Party, which voted last year to censure Cheney before deciding to stop recognizing her as a Republican altogether. Local GOP offices offer yard signs for Hageman and many other Republicans on the ballot but not Cheney.
Left with few options, she has turned to Democrats for help. Her campaign website now features a link to a form allowing voters to change their party affiliation to Republican to participate in the Republican primary.
Just a reminder that Liz was never that popular or politically successful in her “home state” because she lacks the attribute that every Wyoming politician needs to succeed: she’s not a native. She was born in Madison, WI, attended Colorado College for undergrad (not U Dub) and only spent a short part of her childhood in Casper when Dick was in Congress. She graduated from MacLean, VA high school, and got her JD from the University of Chicago. Those are not the credentials of a successful Wyoming politician. (And before you throw John Barasso back at me, note that the guy grew up and was educated in the East, but he put in ~20 years of practice in Casper before becoming a Senator, and Barasshole first got the seat by appointment when Craig Thomas died. Cheney never lived in the state for an extended period of time.)
I’ve detailed the fail parade that was her first campaign for Senate, here, here and here. It’s notable that supposed local political powerhouse Liz didn’t even try to challenge dumb-as-shit Cynthia Lummis when Lummox ran for Senate in 2020. That’s because, like her dad, she used the state as a launching pad for what would have been a DC-centric insider career, if Trump hadn’t come along.
So, while I do appreciate Liz’ work on the 1/6 committee, her primary difficulties aren’t a big surprise. I’m also uber-skeptical that Wyoming Democrats willing to switch parties (a small percentage of a small number) will make a difference.
FledtheUS
I non-ironically refer to Liz as “spawn of satan” and keep reminding myself she is still a Republican. She is doing good on the committee, but not because she believes in anything other than Liz.
artem1s
Hey, if she wants to disavow her party platform and spend the rest of her life carpetbagging from state to state challenging DINOs and RINOs that the Dems want to light a fire under or get out of office, I’d be all for that. Be a perpetual third party threat on behalf of the democracy and Constitution she claims she wants to protect. Great way for her to actually atone for her sins and the sins of her father.
No way should the Dems ever let her win a seat that would put the Speaker’s seat in reach of her or the GOP though.
OzarkHillbilly
As good a reason as any other to start drinking at… 8:08 in the morning.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Her work in the hearings may be having a negative effect on her in WY, despite positive effect elsewhere. Yesterday, I was shocked when my group of secret Ds was drinking on the patio, and one couple said they might vote for Cheney. Someone said if she ran for what office with what party, and they said just anything. At which point, I said no. The woman said but– and I interrupted and said no again, adding if you need someone to shoot someone in the face for you, Liz is your girl. Otherwise, no. At that point, the woman stopped talking about it. I suppose I was rude. I can’t always tell
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a good question, and the fact that it flew over the temporary Cheney’s fans heads says a lot. Are they gonna move to Wyoming? Or if LC carpet-bags (home) to Virginia? I appreciate her work on the committee, her ability to hate the right people (this time), but she’s a hard-right social conservative Neo-con who is probably quite happy with the current Supreme Court
I wonder if Bloomberg is fantasizing about bankrolling some “unity ticket”, and who they think could balance out Dick Jr in the second spot.
Ken
Paul Ryan has been tanning and resting for years, hoping someone would ask that question.
Danielx
Speaking of blowouts, anybody heard from Cole?
bbleh
Root for injuries!
bbleh
@Ken: I heard he’s down to a 2:50 marathon!
TS
Does TFG still have such a hold on republicans that they are going to install their mini dictator as ruler of the United States of America. It would seem after spending all of the 20th century fighting to preserve democracy around the world, they would give it up for someone who will have millions go visit his grave for the obvious reason.
JML
@Ken: That’s hardly the “unity” ticket someone like Bloomberg and his ilk in the “can’t we just get along” group that wants things to go back to the 80’s and frequently means pushing down people of color, trying to pretend that trans folk don’t exist again (they don’t mind the gays so much so long as they’re not getting too uppity). That’s just an old school 90’s GOP ticket.
No unity BS. The GOP is flailing and could potentially have a massive rift. When your opponent is drowning, throw them an anchor. They must be utterly broken, then maybe, maybe we can have a sane second party again.
Cameron
@Danielx: It’s still a bit early in the day for Fecal Update, don’t you think?
SFAW
@JML:
That’s much less likely than the Democrat Party being declared a Terrist Group, and hunted down accordingly, if/when the Rs take over.
Betty Cracker
Cheney’s political views are appalling (except on marriage equality — she came around on that), and I’d vote for any elected Democrat over Cheney, even someone terrible like Rep. Cuellar. But I give Cheney full credit for opposing the Trump coup. It would have been easy to go along with the rest of the cowards and retain her leadership position in the caucus, but she didn’t. That took courage and integrity. Period.
Danielx
@Cameron:
This is Balloon Juice, never too early for critical news.
coin operated
@Cameron:
If you’ve spent any time in the nursing field, you’d know that anytime is a good time for a fecal update….
Immanentize
Hmmm, that’s interesting, I am certain that I had the first comment on this thread commenting on the Monday morning big footing. But it oddly disappeared!
Ken
@Cameron: It’s always too early in the day for that.
OzarkHillbilly
What you were, was blunt. Some people take that as rude but that is on them if they do.
Jerzy Russian
@JML:
I think we should throw them an anvil. However, I concede that reasonable people can disagree on this point.
Matt McIrvin
@TS: Right now, most Republicans actually don’t seem to want Trump to be the nominee. Currently I think they’ll give it to DeSantis as “Trump, but smarter and more focused on sticking it to the libs”.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker: Yes.
The Moar You Know
Hey, credit where credit is due, but if I were so unfortunate as to be a Wyoming Democrat, I wouldn’t vote for her. No fucking way. Her dad tried to take over the country just as surely as Trump did, he was just far more polite about it.
JML
@Jerzy Russian: I’m not fussy about the traditionally heavy object to be thrown. Anvil. Anchor. Dump Truck. Space Shuttle.
VOR
Liz Cheney’s sister Mary is in a same-sex marriage. In 2013 there was a rift between the two when Liz publicly came out against same-sex marriage during her Senate campaign. Liz later (2021) publicly stated she had changed her mind and voted for the 2022 Respect for Marriage act.
Agree, she could have easily gone with the TFG camp but decided to put the country first. You could chalk it up to an attempt to position as a non-Trump conservative, but fact is she has been effective on the J6 committee public hearings.
dww44
@FledtheUS: I disagree. She is a principled supporter of our representative democracy and is to be applauded for that, particularly because she is a lifelong Republican. One doesn’t have to like her support of policies which are anathema to Democrats, but she is a person with whom we can cross the partisan divide and do what’s best for the country. At this present juncture that is what is important…. finding common ground with members of the GOP who are unafraid of standing up to the Big Lie. There are all too few of them.
Jerzy Russian
@Betty Cracker:
Yes agreed.
The sad/scary thing is that she is by far the sanest GQP candidate for Wyoming’s Congressional seat. I never thought the day would come when I am rooting for the spawn of Richard B. “Penis” Cheney.
Matt McIrvin
@JML: The “unity ticket” *is* a 90s GOP ticket. The “meet in the middle” shtick always involves ignoring the compromises that Democrats already make and have made, and pretending that they are as extremist as Republicans.
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Democrats are such idiots sometimes.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: I am perpetually considered rude.
And sometimes I even intend it.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Bunch of insecure motherfuckers. I hate it so much.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jerzy Russian: Did you see that clip of the R primary debate in WY? It was Liz vs. a bunch of lunatics. The kind who claim Dr. Fauci is the most corrupt person in DC
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
If I lived in Wyoming, I’d cross over and vote for Cheney. The Democrat there has no chance, and a Republican that believes in Democracy is better than whoever the Wyoming GOP will puke up to challenge her. Outside of that, I would mostly be unwilling to vote for her. I said mostly, because there are political positions I would seriously consider her for, like any attorney general role. She has proven to me she is very adept at going after criminals.
CaseyL
@zhena gogolia: We like Shiny New Objects and make heroes of them just as much as the MSM, unfortunately.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: DeSantis also is not as lazy and narcissistic as trump.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: “I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
– Harry S Truman
zhena gogolia
@CaseyL: And dump on our own.
I was lying in bed this morning remembering that petulant asshole trying to film a 3-minute video, and I remembered that Biden’s approval ratings are worse than his, and I said to my husband, “There’s no hope for America.” I don’t usually like to be like that. Maybe it’s my slow hip recovery that’s got me down.
Matt McIrvin
@CaseyL: The Democrats I know who don’t want Biden to run again are behind either Harris or, if they don’t like Harris, Pete Buttigieg. They’re sort of casting about for a hero. I am deeply skeptical that either of those could win in the current environment but I’m also worried that the complainers are not thinking about the effects of their words and what kind of influence campaign they might be buying into.
zhena gogolia
@CaseyL: I will admit that I’ve been pleasantly surprised by L. Cheney. I don’t want to vote for her (although if I were a Democrat in WY I would), but she and Kinzinger are the type of Republicans we need. They seem like people who deserve to be in the US Congress, unlike every other Republican now serving, bar none.
zhena gogolia
@Matt McIrvin: Bingo.
I sense a Russian hand behind a lot of this, as well as the whingeing about Garland.
jnfr
I don’t vote for Republicans, period. I sincerely believe that they want to see me and all people like me dead (feminists, queers, creative people, anyone who believes in and tries to create a people-powered, multicultural society). They will not allow us to live our lives freely, in peace. I won’t vote for my own destruction.
Nicole
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Nah, you did the right thing. Back in 2000, I expressed some positive feelings about John McCain during the primaries and an older, wiser woman shut me down pretty quick. The media is so desperate to find a principled Republican they’ll spin anyone. My friend was right, and so were you.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I read that Liz Cheney opposed legal representation for Guantanamo prisoners. I can’t find a source now, so I’m not sure that’s true.
Geminid
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I read that a lot of Wyoming Democrats and independents register as Republicans because that party’s primaries are the only game in town. Reregistering day-of-primary is allowed also.
South Carolina does not register by party so primaries there are truly open. Tom Rice (SC-7) was another Impeacher, a seven term Rep. with a trump endorsed challenger. Rice did not even come close in last month’s primary there. I thought that did not bode well for Cheney.
Impeacher Peter Meijer faces a trump endorsed challenger in his western Michigan district (maybe tomorrow?). That will provide another data point as to Republican tolerance of trump impeachers (four are retiring).
germy shoemangler
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Jerzy Russian
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes, I saw that clip. Everyone on that stage except Cheney was approaching the “wear your underwear on the outside” level.
Ohio Mom
I drove through Wyoming once, it was breathtakingly beautiful.
Have no desire to ever go back and I’m glad as anything I don’t live there because I would be tempted to switch parties in the primary to reward Cheney and I couldn’t live with myself if I did.
In one way, it would be a wash, Cheney would vote the same as any Republican on almost every issue. On the other hand, she has big ambitions and I don’t want any responsibility for her possibly attaining them.
Redshift
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Hmm, in one hand, all of the current Republicans in Congress from Virginia are demonstrably worse than her. But in the other, she’s no more a native in those areas than in Wyoming, and the base there are Trump cult members, so it wouldn’t help anyway.
Scout211
@Betty Cracker:
Her original no vote was especially appalling since her sister is gay and both of her parents were pro marriage equality at the time.
On the positive side, she voted with the Dems for codifying the right to birth control. Only 8 Republicans voted yea.
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022385
Maybe she is trying to make herself into a moderate these days. Who knows. Who cares. (Not me).
eclare
@Scout211: Yes, I saw how she voted on birth control. It’s disgusting that in 2022 we cheer Republicans who vote that women should have access to birth control, but here we are.
frosty
@Jerzy Russian: As a practical matter, anchors are generally easier than anvils to throw.
Jinchi
I always assumed that the Republican party would react to Trump the way Cheney did in the end. Which is to say, vote overwhelmingly for their shared agenda, but smack him down hard any time he edged towards his obvious authoritarian fantasies.
Everyone knew Trump was a con man who would happily betray anyone up to and including his own family. He bankrupted or defrauded anyone who did business with him. Even before he took office, the guy was openly soliciting bribes from foreign nationals and would have been a willing puppet for Putin. If he’d won re-election he would have purged most of the sitting Republican members of Congress in hopes of replacing them with his own hand picked stooges. You don’t want someone like that controlling all the levers of power.
The party position wasn’t just cowardice, it was stupidity.
Miss Bianca
Eh. If I lived in Wyoming as a Dem, I’d consider the switch to vote for her in the primary. However, I imagine that Wyoming Democrats are a tiny fraction of an already tiny population.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I yield to no one in my belief that John McCain was a wildly, even dangerously overrated, war-mongering mediocrity, but like Liz, he knew how to hate, and if he hadn’t died when he did, the last few years might have been a bit different. (everybody sees the words “might have been”, right?)
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: Pew Rearch did some interesting polling of voter self-identification in Wyoming. I think that Republican was in the mid 40s percentage wise, Demorat were in the low 30s, and independents were mid 20s. Registration figures are much more lopsided.
Omnes Omnibus
It is possible to think that someone may be a believer in our system of government, a courageous person, and a vicious political in-fighter while also recognizing that most of her political views are horrific and therefore have no interest in ever voting for her.
Betty Cracker
@Jinchi: If not for Trump, maybe the GOP wouldn’t have clowns like Walker, Vance, Oz, etc., putting seats where Republicans should have a major advantage this fall in play. But on the other hand, if Republicans had turned on Trump after 1/6, he wouldn’t have just gone away. Maybe he still endorses those people, and maybe they still win their primaries? I don’t know. If retaining and amassing power is the goal (rather than preserving democracy, for example), maybe placating Tangerine Baal isn’t the dumbest play.
Skepticat
@Betty Cracker: This.
trollhattan
Do wonder, between Monday coffees 1 and 2, whether a Cheney leopard can change her spots? She now has had a frontrow seat to the Trump-Era Republican Party for six+ years and while obviously learning how insane and deeply corrupt they have become, has she also reconsidered some other of her automatic, parentally approved political positions?
Is there a tax cut she would not cherish? Is there a war she would not support? Does Obamacare remain the worst stain on America since the Dodgers moved to LA?
Call it a mild curiosity, not a hope she’ll become a Democrat. In the meantime, I’ll continue applauding every Trump minion she uses for batting practice while on the committee.
RaflW
@TS: “after spending all of the 20th century fighting to preserve
democracyaccess to commercial markets & exploitable natural resources around the world” now it turns out the GOP are all still deeply invested in white guys finishing firstLiz would like to be a white gal finishing first (ie: being Potus). But I don’t think she’s gonna make it. Losing WY, however, will be a blip on that possible trajectory. In fact it would open her calendar for a lot more campaigning.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Republicans think that control of the House and maybe the Senate are within their grasp, and they are desperate to achieve this. They would do a lot to appease trump, but he’s so fickle no one knows how. It’s kind of fun to watch.
kindness
@dww44: but she is a person with whom we can cross the partisan divide and do what’s best for the country.
Liz vote with Trump 92% of her votes. I wouldn’t call 8% crossing the aisle.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: Last week Ari Fleischer, in one of the more transparent attempts to manipulate trump through his own megalomania, suggested on twitter that it would be “smart” if trump announced his ’24 campaign on the anniversary of 1/6, so desperate are they to keep his profile as low as possible over the next few months
Cameron
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe I’m screwing up basic math, but I thought 1/6/23 would be the two-year anniversary of the insurrection.
RaflW
@Ohio Mom: I spent a few nights in Jackson Hole to snowboard. What a strange place. Some laid back big mountain steep-n-dee- skiers + hundreds of dually diesel quad cab honker pickup trucks (a few of them are actually even ranchers!).
I was there too late in the season for the good snow, so only stayed a couple nights then GTFO’d on east.
Brit in Chicago
@JML: That “potentially” in your second para is doing a lot of work. I fantasize about there being two GOP candidates for President in 2024 (and, ideally, for lots of other offices—Senate seats especially). But I’m not sure it’s likely. TFG is too lazy and disorganized to get on the ballot if he’s not the R nominee, and I’m now pretty sure he won’t be. Would Rep. Cheney want to be an independent party candidate if (say) DeS were the likely R nominee? I doubt it.
Does that mean I should be rooting for TFG to be the R nominee? Maybe it does, but I don’t think it will happen, and I don’t think the eventual nominee will be someone much better for the country (though it might be a less awful human being).
jeffreyw
Liz has a bright career ahead in reenacting Civil War campaigns. She would make a dandy Sherman marching through Georgia.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cameron: I’m thinking Ari got lots of noogies in the Bush White House that rattled his brains
eclare
@Cameron: Math is not their strong suit.
Suzanne
Did everyone see JD Vance’s comments about people should stay in bad or even violent marriages?!
Does everyone believe me now that the GOP is trying to reverse everything that makes American women free humans? It is about restoring us to subservient breeder status for white men on behalf of the state.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wow, such insight. Thanks for nothing Ari, now crawl back into the box of history whence you came.
Elizabelle
Liz Cheney is a fighter, and is out front fighting the bad guys with her work on the J6 Committee.
I think that is what people are admiring and responding to. They want a fighter, and she is in a forum that lets her shine.
Also think the MSM dumps on or — more often — ignores Biden and his accomplishments constantly. People may not pick up on that. He is actually NOT that unpopular, and he is doing a hard job very well, even gracefully.
And do not forget all the dirtbag press who couldn’t complain enough about the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Liz Cheney shines because none of that is happening to her, except in the fever swamps, and most Americans don’t see that crap. They do see headlines and cable and network news blurbs.
trollhattan
@RaflW: You probably noticed Jackson Hole is extremely expensive and a favorite destination of a handful of really rich people unlike, well, the rest of the state. I’m sure it does odd things to the local economy, because SOMEBODY has to clean those McMountain McMansions and serve up $18 bespoke martinis.
Driving north to Grand Teton NP is a must-do no matter who you are–one of the most breathtaking places I’ve ever seen, plus mooses!
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: I think Ms. Cheney has the ability to grow and change. It would be mingy to not give her credit for that, if we see evidence it is happening. For all we know, the rot she is seeing is even worse than she (and maybe even we) feared, and she is reevaluating.
Who knows what the GOP congresscritters are saying to themselves behind the scenes? What they say in public and private are frequently quite different.
ETA: And Grand Teton is on my two-year bucket list. Cannot wait to see it.
NoraLenderbee
Maybe she should change her own party affiliation if she wants Dem votes. Sheesh.
Immanentize
Does anyone remember Phil Gramm? The unstoppable GOP candidate circa 1998….
Lyrebird
Ditto to all of what Betty said.
There’s a Yiddish saying I often forget, that if everybody pulled in the same direction, the world would tip over (here’s an illustrated version)
I’m so glad BJ is here, where I agree with so much. But I am also aware that the world is full of people different from me. When Rep. Cheney stands up for democracy in the US of A, I respect that.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize: . . . Gramm . . .
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: what are you talking about? 🙂
Baud
@Lyrebird:
Respect, yes.
Vote for over any Dem, no.
Jerzy Russian
@trollhattan:
I thing the plural of “moose” is “meese”.
Yes, that part of Wyoming is amazing. I need to get back there one of these days.
ian
@The Moar You Know:
I am a Wyo Dem, and I did vote for her. Her opponent is way worse- just as awful as Cheney on a host of issues. With Cheney we get a) respect for elections, b) voted for recent gun safety measure, c) voted for marriage equality. Watch the clips of the Wyo Republican debate if you want to see how god-awful Hageman really is. I’ve heard a few interviews of her on local NPR, and she if full into the big lie and the need to overturn democratic victories.
You choose the best option when you vote. The best option is not always palatable.
trollhattan
@Jerzy Russian: Meese!
https://www.heritage.org/impact/edwin-meese-iii-receives-presidential-medal-freedom
RaflW
@trollhattan: Western ski towns are quite the contrast. I visited a friend of my dad’s who lived in the original town of Crested Butte. He was one of the founders of High Country News, and a somewhat rare flaming lib among my pop’s circle of mostly corporatists-conservative buddies.
The C.B. friend did alright for himself, but the split between townies and rich ski people there was notable. Aspen is just absurd (I got a screaming priceline deal to stay in a suite at the off-mountain resort where the summer Aspen Ideas Festival is HQ’d, it was like I could feel the ooogy eddies of David Brooks energy in the dining room – eww). The number of $5-20 million dollar private jets parked at Aspen Airport was just gross. The snowboarding at Snowmass was fantastic, however. The view of Maroon Bells from the top of Ajax was also worth the price of admission.
RaflW
@Miss Bianca: The 2020 election turned out 73,491 Biden votes. Were a few of those disaffected R’s who opposed TFG? Maybe. But, yes, a rather lonely place to be a Dem. Teton County — home of Jackson — would be the one semi-oasis (67-30 Biden/dump split).
catclub
@trollhattan:
As to having a front row seat to Trumps corruption, she is a slow learner. One could even imagine the usual compassion of Republicans that only occurs to them if they are actually endangered – like by a mob incited by Trump. If a mob takes over the Michigan state house she has no problems with it.
lee
I’ve seen this on ‘the internet’ that Wyoming would be the ‘easiest’ state to flip to blue via population migration.
It would take about 150k Democratic voters moving to WY to flip it blue. Still not really feasible, but I’ve always found it interesting.
O. Felix Culpa
@satby:
LOL.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
The rethuglican party is about money, who has it, who gets it, who keeps it. They want an extremely regressive party and platform because that gives them the control of money. What I’m saying is that they want to maintain the old monied class and be the old monied class. They think that they can convince enough people to be subservient to them to get paid to do the uber wealthy’s bidding. It’s worked out OK for them up till not long ago. But it is pretty obvious that to be a current rethuglican office holder in many places, one has to be rather regressive. But the more regressive they go, the more obvious what and who motivate them, the more they lose overall support. That won’t stop them – till it does. This is not newish territory for them, they have done this style before, just not so obvious as their trumping. Does anyone think that deathSantass would be a better president than SFB? Or that there are more than a very small handful of national rethuglican politicians that would not like the regressive rethuglican crap we are seeing, from the SC on down? The rethuglican party is attempting to sell their irresponsible 16th century politics as reverting to a better nation. They have been behind the curve for most of my decades here but they used to be better at hiding it. What we are seeing on their side is desperation/doubling down. And it is getting more obvious as the days go on. Sure they will have support, they have fans, ie: SFB is still getting morons to support him. I’m praying that this destroys their party, but I’m thinking there will always be people who see that being better is the worst thing in the world.
WaterGirl
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: If the Der has no chance, they Cheney will win anyway. Why give a Republican your vote?
Hoodie
The fact that Cheney’s only hope for retaining the WY seat was to keep supporting Trump is more reason for giving her credit for supporting impeachment and her work on the 1/6 commission. Sounds like she really doesn’t have a constituency anywhere in particular except on the Sunday talk shows. That said, the GOP is known for quickly rewriting history, so it would not be surprising to see her career resurrected after someone (DeSantis?) dethrones Trump and they memory hole Orange Julius.
CaseyL
O/T: David Warner, British actor who mostly played villains, and played them quite memorably in movies like Time Bandits and Tron, has died of cancer at age 80.
I remember him also for two non-villain roles: the slowly-going-crazy husband in Morgan (not his first movie, but the first one I ever saw him in) and Angie Dickinson’s ex-husband in Wild Palms (a futuristic mini-series aired back in the 90s, where Dickinson played a skin-crawlingly evil fascist, and Warner her artist ex who joined the Underground).
RIP, David. You elevated everything you appeared in, and your villains had a terrific sly sense of humor.
Redshift
@Suzanne:
Oh, absolutely. It’s been clear forever that’s the goal of the antiabortion movement, not “saving the babeeez.”
The whole of conservatism is that there is a proper hierarchy, where everyone knows their place and stays in it. Anything that contributes to changing that is evil and wrong and must be crushed.
Miss Bianca
@ian:
QFT
Brachiator
So how vile is the person who might replace her?
Dorothy A. Winsor
Update from Cole via twitter
Ohio Mom
@Danielx: Cole announced on his Twitter he’s all done, “Worst part of the procedure was making small talk with all the highly caffeinated nurses.”
Miss Bianca
@RaflW: Who was your dad’s friend, I wonder? I knew Ed and Betsy Marston pretty well when I lived in Paonia.
Also lived in Crested Butte for a year when I was working in Gunnison. Pretty, pretty place, but it was a costly mistake for the most part.
ETA: And it would be even costlier now than it was ten years ago when I moved out of CB.
O. Felix Culpa
@CaseyL:
RIP David Warner. I first became aware of him in Time Bandits, in which he played a deeply satisfying Satan.
FledtheUS
@dww44: I understand your point, but she is not a friend. I don’t trust her and I don’t actually trust that she believes in democracy. I believe she wants the party her daddy ran back. I think she wants her own power for her own use. I also believe she thinks the only way that the name Cheney will ever have any power is if she gets rid of Trump. But that doesn’t mean she believes in democracy.
She is doing fine work on the committee. But just because the scorpion offered to carry the frog across the river didn’t mean they both made it to the other side alive.
FledtheUS
@Omnes Omnibus: You said it better than I was managing to.
brantl
@Betty Cracker: They stole her franchise. Period.
Brachiator
@CaseyL:
I also remember him in Time After Time and The Omen. Somehow in my mind, he and Alan Rickman were somewhat similar types. Warner was a good actor and I liked him even when he played a baddie.
brantl
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Only criminals who are in opposition to her, not the ones on her side, of which there are many.
Paul in KY
@Jerzy Russian: Isn’t is moosii?
Hoodie
@lee: There’s a reason only 600k people live in WY. I was having beers with some new neighbors who used to work at UW in Laramie. They said there was a clear climate shift that occurred at the CO/WY state line, and that you had to be prepared for not being able to get back to Laramie if you took a trip down to Fort Collins for a taste of civilization. I remember driving through blinding snow on Elk Mountain just west of there in the middle of July. The wind never stops.
CaseyL
@Brachiator: He played wonderful baddies! I quite liked his Metatron in Karma. I think he and Rickman were very similar – not only in their looks, but in how they played villains: made them interesting, sly, and often more intelligent than the Good Guys.
Warner, as Evil in Time Bandits:
The way he said “Nipples for men,” just slayed me.
Old School
OT: Joni Mitchell performed a set at the Newport Folk Festival yesterday.
Fair Economist
In the current environment, Cheney is a huge advantage over any alternative Republican. We’ll benefit from actively supporting her.
In the future if she becomes dangerous again we can oppose her then. Political alliances are not weddings. They don’t last for life.
O. Felix Culpa
@Fair Economist:
Neither do a lot of marriages, for that matter.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Had Trump been convicted and disqualified from holding office as a result of impeachment, some of his political power might have been blunted. The GOP stupidly let him get nominated years ago. He has infected the GOP ever since. Even if he does not run again and just plays king maker, his baleful influence is bad for the country and for democracy.
trollhattan
@Old School: Wow, no idea that had happened.
Jinchi
I’ve been surprised that there is very little mention of the attacks and armed protests by rightwing mobs at statehouses across the country in the leadup to 1/6, often with the open encouragement of Trump.
At Michigan, in particular, they strolled into the statehouse, carrying guns and stood nose to nose facing the statehouse security. Trump’s reaction was to attack the governor and encourage the state to caputulate to the mob.
So it’s not a surprise that those guys figured they could stroll into Congress and force Pence to name Trump the winner. Or that Trump thought he would be able to pull it off.
RaflW
@Miss Bianca: Larry Mosher. I guess I could be wrong about him as a founder, but he was very much associated with High Country News in my mind – longtime reporter, at any rate.
I’ve also spent some time in Paonia. A Minneapolis friend married a guy who grew up there, so I visited a couple times. My first taste of (highly addictive) Rainier cherries were all their fault!
The Thin Black Duke
It’s best to think of Cheney as a temporary ally. If Cheney is the scorpion the Democrats are carrying across the river, we better be wearing body armor.
Geminid
@Brachiator: McConnell may have put the brakes on conviction in the second impeachment because he figured that a good chunk of Republican voters never would have forgiven the party for it. The Georgia runoffs provided an example of how disaffected trumpists could make or break Republican candidates. McConnell may have figured that it was better to let trumpists drift away from their hero over time.
I’m not sure Republicans, or at least the leaders made a mistake when Trump won the nomination in 2016. They tried to stop him, but they could not control their voters.
way2blue
I would do it—I would switch to Republican to vote for Liz. The conservative policies she supports bring me up short, but right now, in this moment, we need her in the House. Full stop…
artem1s
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m not at all shocked. This has been the plan all along. She will be the perfect GQP VP choice to get white women and NPR Republicans who are looking for a non-embarrassing candidate they can vote for even if they have to hold their nose because someone odious is at the top of the ticket. Exactly the role Pence played in 2016.
Will not surprise me one bit when the MSM, trolls and rose twitter start calling for the Dems to replace Biden (or Harris) with Liz in 2024. Be afraid, be very, very afraid.
SFAW
@CaseyL:
There are now only three lights.
May he RIP.
Jinchi
@Brachiator: Right. Trumps power doesn’t come from his brilliant political skills. It comes from the rightwing media echo chamber and the support if the Republican establishment. Immediately after 1/6, he’d lost support of all of them. He lost his direct line of communication, his coup had failed, staff had quit, others had refused orders. It looked like he would be impeached or removed from office before the week was out.
If they had, he’d be done. A complete failure who’d lost them the presidency, the Senate and the House. Fox and the rest would have put out hit pieces on him until every good old boy thought he was a traitor to the cause.
His power comes because McCarthy went and groveled before him and McConnell refused to move on impeachment. Republicans decided he was their guy even though he’d set the mob on them. They reconfirmed him as the leader and Republican most likely to be President again.
That’s the reason he has any sway today.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@WaterGirl: Again, this is hypothetical, because I live in MO not WY. However, the reason I would have voted for her is the same reason ian did. You choose the best option available, even if that option is bad.
SFAW
@Brachiator:
Until the ICOTUS ruled that Article II, Section 4, does not really apply to Rethuglicans, that is. The Alito Court would find some obscure quasi-religious tract/screed stating that Madison and the rest were “crossing their fingers behind their backs” when they wrote that part, so they clearly didn’t mean it to apply to certain parties.
SFAW
OT, but: over at LGM, Cheryl Rofer has written a post wherein she (more or less) points out that the FTFTFNYT is trying to outdo DougJ’s Pitchbot in their effort(s) to de-legitimize Kamala Harris as VP and possible future POTUS candidate.
Ksmiami
@JML: broken, annihilated, destroyed, dusted. Put a goddamn stake in the GOP and cover the dirt with ash. The party is Confederate revanchist and an utter toxic menace.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@brantl:
I’m not sure that is true. TFG was like catnip to the corrupt. She is cruel and pitiless, like so many in the GOP, but she is not corrupt. I’d rather her lack of empathy and desire to punish the ‘undeserving’ was being put in service of the public, by sticking it to actual criminals, instead just poor people.
Ksmiami
@Jinchi: at which point, Those mobs scared the living shit out of the genteel citizens in Oakland County and helped push them to provide Biden’s vote margins in Michigan.
Kelly
@frosty: Or as Mark Knopfler suggests in “Boom like that” if your enemy is drowning out a hose in his mouth.
Miss Bianca
@RaflW: I’ve heard that name, but never met him, that I’m aware of.
Loved Paonia so much, would love to end out my days there. There are times when I find myself wishing I’d never left.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: Ugh, no I didn’t see it but I can imagine. Does he think even 10% of the population agrees with him? I guess he’s going after the men-who-beat-their-wives demographic.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: You mean how gas prices have been dropping a lot in the past 3 weeks and yet all the stories about gas prices are still about how high they are?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I meant ‘deserving’ not ‘undeserving’.
Geminid
@Jinchi: McConnell may have figured that once trump was out of office his hold on people would fade. I think it has.
catclub
@Geminid:
is this a reference to the recent NY Post and WSJ editorials (Murdoch papers) that Trump is unsuited for the presidency. Murdoch papers are very large worm.
Geminid
@catclub: Not really. Elites have been over trump a while now. I’m thinking of polling that’s been showing a slow but steady decline in trump’s support among rank and file Republicans. Also, many of trump’s independent voters have been long gone I think.
As for Fox and the WSJ, it could be that the Murdoch machine observes a drop in loyalty to trump such that they can safely start tearing him down. They’ve wanted to anyway but the time was not yet ripe.
J R in WV
@frosty:
Maybe, if you’re talking about prissy little civilian anchors. On my USN ship the stern anchor had a chain so heavy one link would need a crane to pick it up off the deck. We almost lost that anchor one windy night, the chain was slipping out over the cog used to hoist the anchor normally…
And Aircraft carriers probably have much heavier anchors than a 1944 sub tender. Maybe, anyway. “The (Enterprise’s) starboard anchor weighs 32 tons and was first built in 1957, several years before the “Big E” went into service.” The links of heavy anchor chain weigh 500 lbs each.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And that just how stupid Ari Fleischer is — can’t count to two, or else doesn’t remember when the election and inauguration was…!!!
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
I served on a DDG, a boat just slightly smaller (450ft) than a carrier (1000ft).
Example – when we refueled from a carrier, the top of our mast was about the height of the flight deck. We had a crew of 300, carrier crew, ship’s and flight was about 5000 men. Also when we refueled from that carrier we would be standing on the deck and the bubble deck on the lower starboard (right) side of the ship was still about 20 ft above us. A DDG could sail anywhere in the world, I crossed the Atlantic 6 times, spent 6 weeks in the Caribbean, (3 nights at Gitmo) and we looked like a piece of driftwood compared to a then modern carrier.
My point is, your point is right. A carrier is a big ass ship. Really, really big ass ship. In every way.
Ohio Mom
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
@Ohio Mom:
Our comments must have crossed in the ether.
I’m always glad when anyone’s medical procedure is over. Here’s hoping no polyps were found.
TEL
@Betty Cracker: Totally agree with this.