Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

White supremacy is terrorism.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

The lights are all blinking red.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

That meeting sounds like a shotgun wedding between a shitshow and a clusterfuck.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

“Alexa, change the president.”

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Perry Mason Moment

The Perry Mason Moment

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Detestable conspiracy-mongering turd and snake-oil peddling fraud Alex Jones at least has the self-awareness to know when he’s screwed:

Haven’t been following this trial closely (just the occasional clip on Twitter), but damn!

Yesterday, one of the Sandy Hook parents whom Jones has relentlessly maligned and tormented by inciting dangerous crackpots with “false flag” lies confronted him in court: [NYT]

“Truth — truth is so vital to our world. Truth is what we base our reality on, and we have to agree on that to have a civil society,” Scarlett Lewis, whose son Jesse, 6, was among the 20 first graders and six educators killed in 2012 at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., told Mr. Jones from the witness stand…

“Alex, I want you to hear this,” Ms. Lewis said, fixing him in her gaze. “We’re more polarized than ever as a country. Some of that is because of you.” Mr. Jones nervously shook his head.

She’s right. Jones is garbage, but he’s not a lone piece of trash. He’s part of a much broader effort to overthrow truth in the service of liars, culminating in the post-truth presidency of Trump and the ongoing lies about the 2020 election that may yet tear this country apart. If there’s any justice, the court judgment will pauperize Jones and he’ll take up residence under a bridge like a common troll.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

257Comments

  1. 1.

    J R in WV

    We watched a young woman who worked (works?) for Infowars as a producer, being examined by a lawyer for the Sandy Hook parents. She squirmed quite a bit, wiped her nose with a hanky, was altogether unpleasant to have with us for lunch, bean soup. Lunch was great, tho.

    All of these Infowar people are despicable, lying about people to make money, what could be worse?

  2. 2.

    Emerald

    They got two years of texts–everything that was on that phone. Your friendly reminder that Jones was heavily involved in 1/6.

    The word “schadenfreude” was coined for this moment.

  3. 3.

    HumboldtBlue

    I was waiting for this. Watching this thumb-faced canned ham turn redder than a beet while being forced to read his own fucking emails is just more cherry on top of the Kansas cake.

    Caption this.

  4. 4.

    Dangerman

    Hit him where it hurts.

    I meant him him in the pocket book, but that will work fine just as as well.

  6. 6.

    different-church-lady

    It’s nice to know there are still some places on earth where bullshit (in the Harry Frankfurt definition) has no power.

  7. 7.

    Steeplejack

    The hearing is also bringing out evidence (laboriously, like pulling hen’s teeth, because Jones fought discovery and a lot of it is coming out through his and his attorney’s incompetence) that InfoWars was making at least $100,000 a day in 2016-18—probably much more. Jones could be hiding as much as $300 million.

  11. 11.

    Suzanne

    I’m wondering how accidental that was. I would not be surprised to learn that his lawyers hate him as much as we do.

  13. 13.

    Betty Cracker

    This American Life did a segment a while back featuring the work of Lenny Pozner, whose son Noah was murdered at Sandy Hook. Thanks to Jones and his deranged scumbag listeners, Pozner’s full-time job is pulling down conspiracy websites. I knew the Sandy Hook parents were being hassled by these freaks, but I didn’t know how relentless and widespread it was until I heard his story. These conspiracy fucksticks are lower than whale shit. There’s no penalty the court could impose on Jones that would be commensurate with his crimes.

  14. 14.

    CaptPhealy

    The first rule of “Perry Mason” club is: never say “I’ll kill [you/him/her/them]!” (Or any variation thereof.)

    The second rule of “Perry Mason” club is: shut your trap when under cross-examination.

  15. 15.

    bbleh

    Oh my.  That plaintiffs’ lawyer will never have a better day in his life.  That is, like, lawyer fantasy world.

  18. 18.

    Old School

    So what happens to the rest of the text messages on the phone?  Is that fair game to be disclosed to others?

  20. 20.

    Lyrebird

    @Emerald: Yes, DKos reported this:

    According to NBC, Bankston was heard on a hot mic at recess noting how no one in the courtroom has yet thought about what happens when the trove of texts goes to law enforcement.

     

    It won’t bring their kids* back, but I am hoping so hard that this leads to bringing down more conspirators.  Let Alex Jones be known for his lies and for his sloppy record keeping that brought down a conspiracy.  Maybe this will offer a little solace to those who have suffered so much because of Alex Jones.

     

    *or moms etc, there were some fantastic devoted teachers slain along with the little ones.

  24. 24.

    different-church-lady

    @Lyrebird: ​
      Would love to hear from the lawyers (practicing or dilettante) in the BJ crowd about how this works legally. Now that the Jones prosecution has them, do they get to disseminate them at will to law enforcement?

  25. 25.

    SamIAm

    I think his lawyer(s) hate him as much as nearly everyone else.  I find it very difficult to believe anyone can “accidentally” send two years of texts to the plaintiff’s lawyers.

    That’s not a one button, “oops!” move.

  26. 26.

    different-church-lady

    Just realized that the prosecution gets to read Jones’ own incriminating texts out to him one by one and ask if he sent them or not.

  27. 27.

    citizen dave

    @different-church-lady: Love the Harry Frankfurt reference!  I read that book just a few years ago, around the start of TFG years.  It is so apt.

    I watched that Jones clip.  I get the impression that Jones is commenting (sometimes non verbally) on his own cross as it’s happening, but also like he’s doing an episode of infowars.

  28. 28.

    patrick II

    The title of this post could be “Another Perry Mason Moment”, or “The Penultimate Perry Mason Moment” because he has been having so many of them at this trial.
    At one point, after yet another blantant lie, the judge told him the courtroom isn’t a radio show, truth matters.

  29. 29.

    Suzanne

    @different-church-lady:

    Just realized that the prosecution gets to read Jones’ own incriminating texts out to him one by one and ask him if he sent them or not. 

    I might need a cigarette after that.
    And I have never smoked a cigarette.

  31. 31.

    geg6

    @Suzanne: ​
     
    I followed a bit of it yesterday. His lawyers are every bit the asshole he is. I have no doubt it was incompetence. Zero.

  32. 32.

    Steeplejack

    Dan Solomon:

    While we’re still on jury instructions, here’s what happens next: Lawyers will make closing arguments on the matter of compensatory damages owed to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis. Jury will deliberate, then award those damages and those damages only—NOT punitive damages

    This trial is bifurcated, so the question of Jones’s net worth is not a consideration for the jury when determining appropriate compensation. Once the jury returns that verdict, a second (much shorter) trial begins with testimony on the matter of Jones’s net worth.

  33. 33.

    dexwood

    I’d rather see Jones take up residence under a piss-splattered tombstone. Such an evil, greedy toad.

  34. 34.

    SamIAm

    Hey, Jones was at the January 6th mob inciment.  Wonder if he’s got some relevant texts about that.  😁

  35. 35.

    Redshift

    @Suzanne:

    I’m wondering how accidental that was. I would not be surprised to learn that his lawyers hate him as much as we do.

    I doubt that. He seems to have the same kind of lawyer Bannon had, willing to pull garbage stunts and defy the judge’s orders in hopes of getting a mistrial, because he’s aware Jones is guilty as hell and that’s the only way he’ll “win.” If he hated Bannon, he could have just stuck to the rules and let him suffer, with much less harm to his own reputation.

  36. 36.

    Lyrebird

    @different-church-lady: ​
     

    I’m also eager to hear… Not sure if any of the DKos commenters on that thread are lawyers, but apparently the defendant’s former wife is planning to subpoena the records, too.

  37. 37.

    Steeplejack

    @Ken:

    Jones testified today that InfoWars was making $60-70 million a year, but he squirted out a cloud of “but those were the best years,” “before we were deplatformed,” etc. And of course there’s no reason to believe anything he says anyway.

    Another thing that has come out is that his margin is about 30-40% on the bullshit supplements he sells, maybe more.

    I think the plaintiffs are seeking $150 million.

  38. 38.

    delphinium

    @Betty Cracker: If there’s any justice, the court judgment will pauperize Jones and he’ll take up residence under a bridge like a common troll.

    Where he will hopefully be repeatedly kicked in the nuts. Hard.

  39. 39.

    Redshift

    @citizen dave:

    I watched that Jones clip. I get the impression that Jones is commenting (sometimes non verbally) on his own cross as it’s happening, but also like he’s doing an episode of infowars.

    One of the things the judge raked him for yesterday was making “asides,” that is, talking to the jury about things other than the answers to questions he’s asked.

  40. 40.

    Steeplejack

    @Suzanne:

    😹 Jones’s own lawyer’s last question to him was whether Jones thought he got a good legal defense. “Yes.” That will be helpful in the eventual malpractice trial.

  41. 41.

    Steeplejack

    @Old School:

    The plaintiffs’ lawyer said he would review the phone material for possible referral to law enforcement but would not (my words) toss it out to the public.

  43. 43.

    Redshift

    Yesterday he did his show and trash talked one of the plaintiffs while the trial was going on, claiming he seemed “slow” or “on the spectrum” and might be getting manipulated. The plaintiffs introduced that as evidence later in the day. The judge asked him if he understood the court’s instructions about what he is and isn’t allowed to talk about, and he said he thought doing that was okay.

    He really does seem so sociopathic that he can’t grasp the danger of repeatedly demonstrating he takes no responsibility and has no remorse.

  44. 44.

    Miss Bianca

    @HumboldtBlue:

    thumb-faced canned ham

    That, sir/ma’am/gentlebeing, is some Betty Cracker- or Tony Jay-level of invective.

    So, of course, I’m swipin’ it for further use.

  47. 47.

    SamIAm

    @geg6:

    I’m really sceptical about that.  Even if Jones texted his lawyers once a day that’s 730 texts that had to be individually selected.  And for what purpose were they being sent?

    And if it was accidental who was the lawyer thinking he was sending those to?  Unless one of his associates has a name the same or very similar to the plaintiff’s lawyers I don’t see how it could have accidentally been sent to them.

  50. 50.

    Dan B

    @Xantar: Fantastic piece.  White conservatives are so clueless and sheltered.  That was superb shade – mega or ultra shade?  Shade bomb?  Nuclear shade?

  52. 52.

    zhena gogolia

    @Steeplejack: How would you define a “Perry Mason moment”?

    I think it’s when Paul, in a salt-and-pepper sports jacket, sits on Della’s desk swinging his leg after a case well won and bites into a turkey sandwich on rye.

  55. 55.

    Steeplejack

    @SamIAm:

    Jones’s lawyer put the entire contents of his phone in a DropBox that was being used to share data with the plaintiffs’ attorney. He didn’t have to individually forward hundreds of texts. And he might have done it inadvertently, thinking he was just putting it somewhere in “the cloud” for safekeeping.

    The plaintiffs’ lawyer notified Jones’s lawyer and said the stuff should probably be removed. No response, and after 10 days (yesterday, I think) the plaintiffs’ lawyer could legally access it. 🎉

  57. 57.

    eversor

    Hot take but I don’t want him under a bridge.  The threat of being homeless is a major control factor the right, capitalism, the rich, and the Church have used to cow people into submission and I don’t think it should be picked up by other groups.   There are other, more unsual methods.

    Take most of his money and donate it to gun victims causes and their families.  Let him live a working/middle class life.  Make him go through lengthy psychological evaluations because he’s clearly bonkers.   If/when he’s found sane make him use his show to shutdown conspiracy theories.

    Some people are just nuts and should be pittied but housed and cared for.   Other people were sane but then they found Q, the Church, white naitionalism, or the lizard people and went off the deep end.  I’m not sure how self aware Jones is.  I’ve had more than a few military buddies with masters degrees (multiple in some cases) who were totally fine, dated a Christian girl and went to Church, and became stak raving nutters.  People who do know better because they are cleared and who should know that nobody is coming to take your arsenal dude you’re a fucking vet.  But once you are the whirlpool you can’t get out.

    There’s sort of a zone of Conservative Media, Christianity, Conspiracy Theories, where once you buy into one for even a moment you’re all in on all of it.  It’s always been this way, and it’s not just America this exists all over Europe.  We are either going to rip all three out by the roots from our society or we are doomed for the crazies to take over.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    @zhena gogolia:

    My “Perry Mason moment” is when he makes a cryptic comment, usually to Della and/​or Paul, indicating that he knows who the murderer is but there is some critical detail still left to be nailed down. And of course he leaves them (and us) in suspense.

  59. 59.

    Msb

    I saw some of the testimony of Jones’ employees, plainly lying their heads off. I knew Jones was bad, but they appear to be just as evil.
    Bankston for the plaintiffs has been doing good job. Hope the jury gives Jones the hell he has earned.

  61. 61.

    Josie (also)

    Rolling Stone Magazine has reported that the January 6 Committee has said they will subpoena the phone records.

  63. 63.

    West of the Cascades

    @Lyrebird: On a deadline myself today, but the Texas disciplinary rules of professional conduct seem to only require notifying the opposing party’s lawyer that they received “confidential” information (and even then the Ethics Committee’s opinion on it – excerpted below – seems to consider the notification requirement a ‘suggestion’).

    That said, when dealing with confidential information that is inadvertently obtained, one has to be careful in disseminating it – there may be other laws protecting it, and if it truly is privileged information (e.g. an email from Jones to his lawyer asking for legal advice) there may be separate protections against disclosure under court rules or rules of professional conduct. The smart approach is what the plaintiffs’ lawyer is doing – not disclosing it to the public, but I also imagine that if the emails are subpoenaed they would wait a reasonable time (for Jones’s lawyers to intervene and oppose the subpoena), but not fight too hard and let Jones’s lawyers fight any attempt to disclose them to his ex-wife. And if they deal with matters of interest to law enforcement, I don’t know that Jones could stop their being shared with, e.g., DOJ or the IRS.

    legalethicstexas.com/getattachment/c8d53973-f4a9-4ce6-a89f-33fee90abfc1/Opinion-664

    QUESTIONS PRESENTED

    2.    Do lawyers violate the Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct if they fail to notify an opposing party or its counsel that they have inadvertently received confidential information of the opposing party?

    STATEMENT OF FACTS

    In a second situation, Client A’s lawyer inadvertently receives confidential information belonging to the opposing party outside the normal course of discovery. In each situation, the confidential information is relevant and favorable to Client A’s case.

    DISCUSSION

    In this opinion, “confidential information” refers to any private information, including but not limited to privileged information, obtained from the opposing party or the opposing party’s lawyer in an unauthorized manner or as a result of an inadvertent transfer.

    . . .

    CONCLUSION

    The Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct do not prescribe a specific course of conduct a lawyer must follow upon the unauthorized or inadvertent receipt of another party’s confidential information outside the normal course of discovery. Although the Texas Supreme Court has stated that, upon the unauthorized receipt of such information, a lawyer should aspire to the standard of conduct prescribed by now-withdrawn ABA Formal Opinion 94-382, a Texas lawyer does not necessarily violate the Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct by failing to follow that standard, including the requirement that the lawyer give notice of the receipt of such information to the opposing party. In a given situation a lawyer’s failure to take action upon the unauthorized or inadvertent receipt of another party’s confidential information might violate one or more of the Texas Disciplinary Rules dealing with criminal, fraudulent, dishonest, deceitful and misleading conduct. Whether such a violation occurs will depend on the specific facts of each situation, the applicable law, and the rules of the governing tribunal. In determining the course of action to take in response to the receipt of another party’s confidential information, a lawyer should explain to the client the possible responsive actions and the potential consequences of those actions.

  65. 65.

    Barbara

    I have not followed this closely but I don’t quite understand how sending the messages was a “mistake.”  Okay, he didn’t mean to send them, or his client was taking the position that they were non-responsive or whatever, but it sounds like material that was asked for in discovery and was relevant — except that Jones lied about whether the texts actually contained the material that was considered to be responsive.  So essentially, Jones and his lawyers were trying to perpetrate a fraud on the court and the plaintiffs.  At some level Jones’ lawyer might have even realized that sending them by “mistake” was the least bad option, given that he almost certainly knew that telling Ps that they had no responsive texts was a big fat lie.

  67. 67.

    Dan B

    I suddenly realized why the name of the prosecuting attorney was familiar.  It’s the son of blogger “Juanita Jean” (Bankston) who blogs as proprietor of the “Most dangerous beauty salon”.   She is often Betty Cracker level snark.

  68. 68.

    Barbara

    @West of the Cascades: There is a threshold question whether this information is “confidential” in a manner that would be protected by law.  If, in the context of this rule, confidential simply means “non-public” then okay, this rule might apply.  But lots of stuff is non-public but not actionable as a breach of confidentiality under state law.  If you find yourself in possession of it, you have no obligation to do anything.  Confidential doesn’t necessarily mean “legally protected.”

    Just to further that thought, you can include anything you receive from the other side in your filings and those filings are public unless someone asks for them to be filed under seal, and in most jurisdictions, that’s a heavy burden. BTDT.

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Barbara: I suspect that is the case as well.  If the docs were arguably responsive and not privileged, Jones’s counsel had no choice.

  73. 73.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Barbara: with lawyers such as this one, I’m always torn between wanting them disbarred for lying to the court and wanting them to represent every one of my opponents because they are incompetent

  75. 75.

    Raoul Paste

    This reminds me of an old Thurber cartoon depicting an astonished witness who has just been confronted.

    The attorney in front of him has a kangaroo on a leash , saying “Perhaps THIS  will refresh your memory”

  76. 76.

    J R in WV

    @different-church-lady: ​
     

    Now that the Jones prosecution has them, do they get to disseminate them at will to law enforcement?

    There is no prosecution here, it is a civil case solely to decide the damages Jones must pay to the plaintiffs. But evidence in a civil trial becomes facts available to anyone; presumably the DoJ and J6 SC would be interested in this information.

  77. 77.

    Immanentize

    @Steeplejack:

    The plaintiffs’ lawyer notified Jones’s lawyer and said the stuff should probably be removed. No response, and after 10 days (yesterday, I think) the plaintiffs’ lawyer could legally access it. 🎉

    And this is exactly what lawyer ethics require — an opportunity to correct a digital mistake by the other side before reviewing the material sent by accident.

    This is all so complicated. The info. Should have been sent in discovery, but the lawyer for Jones should have reclaimed the phone info. But. But. But.

    And here we are….

    ETA I expect all sorts of sanctions motions against the attorneys.

  79. 79.

    Ken

    New conspiracy theory coming soon to InfoWars: Alex Jones, deep state agent, spent years creating a cover identity so he could embed himself in the January 6 planning, then “accidentally” release his text messages with co-conspirators.

  80. 80.

    eversor

    @Steeplejack:

    I’ve done law firm IT for one of the top ones and “the cloud” is always a no no.   Generally the way it’s done is virtualized computer desktops and when you are out of the office you hit over VPN to even have access to anything at all.   As your documents and other stuff ain’t on it.  This is for security reasons and demanded by some industries.   All your phone and tablet stuff is in a seperate secure locker (iOS and android support this) and the data can’t be moved out.  If you are going to a place like China or to a trial where there won’t be internet you get a “dumb” device which means it cannot connect to a damn thing and all the ports but the video are disabled at the BIOS level or physically severed.   So you can throw info on the screen, but you can’t connect to the internet ever, and thumb drives don’t work.

    This is pretty standard practice for any sort of serious organization.   Which means that 1.)  these guys are morons, 2.) there were no protocols put in place to stop this, and 3.) they were too cheap to pay for a competent IT department and farmed it out for penny wise dollar stupid reasons.

    If you must do direct transfers what’s set up is sort of an FTP system where you can create access and levels of access and then put documents there.  These always already in place and spinning up a space for a client/matter (client is the client, matter is the issue that is being worked on and not everyone needs to see it) takes like 20 mins for helpdesk, sysadmin, or networking to get done.   It’s who see’s it first.   There file security is set to where it can be taken out of the box, or it can just be worked on in the box.  You always go to the side of caution.  People bitch, whine, pull their puds, throw fits over it but I always said “we are adhering to industry standards so we are allowed this client and I am covering you from the chance of catastrophic data leakage”.

    That this COULD happen indicates a comedic level of incompetence on the part of the legal side.   There should have been dozens of safeguards in place with a team of competent tech times running it.  But nobody likes paying 70-200k for IT “what is it you people do exactly, my Outlook doesn’t work types”.  I know!  I’ve been on the recieving end of that one for years.  (You’re Outlook works fine, you just turned send recieve off, here let me take off capslock before your type in your password)

  81. 81.

    Barbara

    @Immanentize: Which is to say: they were caught red-handed trying to perpetrate a fraud on the court and the plaintiffs.  We’re actually not allowed to use Dropbox for anything unless a client insists.  It’s just too dicey.

  85. 85.

    Barbara

    @eversor: Right, but my impression is that once you go down in size, a lot of insecure practices persist, but generally, your clients aren’t the kind of people who have trade secrets or in progress research that has to be protected from disclosure as a business imperative.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    The hateful crackpots people like Jones (and Trump, and Bannon, etc.) activate are more disturbing than the principals in a sense because they have no somewhat relatable motive like greed — they seem purely driven by a combination of stupidity and hate. They don’t make money off the harassment; in fact, sometimes they lose everything they have, including their families.

    There was a story about one such contemptible wretch in the This American Life segment linked above, IIRC, though it could have been in another podcast or article on the topic I read. It described a woman who became consumed by this bullshit and spent almost all her time harassing grieving parents. Her grown children disowned her, and she lost what little she had because of court judgments, etc., but she would not stop — she was completely obsessed.

    Even if you believed the lies about the Sandy Hook parents being “crisis actors,” why would you be willing to destroy your own life and lose your family over something that had absolutely nothing to do with you? It’s unfathomable to me. 

  87. 87.

    eversor

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    So… calling a racist bad is OK.  Calling a Trumpist bad is OK.  Calling out whiteness, republicanism, the rich is OK.  But you throw shade at the root cause of many of these, if not most, Christianity, and that’s bad.

    Got it!  Again, that’s why we lose.  We won’t fight the actual enemies cause lord almighty forbid we call that out.   This is also why we are going to lose big time.  Cause this is breaking down into conflict within 20 years.  And the smart people are going to run out and side with the right while they march through streets killing people under the Christian battle flag and we yell “don’t get mad, vote! Also you’re doing Christianity wrong, despite the entire Bible being vastly to the right on social issues now than even the GOP is”.

    You either fight the Christian fight or you are not fighting.

  88. 88.

    Steeplejack

    @Immanentize:

    Plus there was other stuff in the DropBox “mistake,” including the medical records of a plaintiff in another trial against Jones. Bankston (plaintiffs’ attorney in this trial) deleted that material.

    Jones’s lawyer seems incredibly incompetent, but maybe that’s some strategery to avoid “criminal” sanctions (if “criminal” applies in a lawyer situation like this).

  89. 89.

    Immanentize

    @West of the Cascades: The ethics rules are a bit of a mess about what must be done when an inadvertent disclosure is discovered. The ABA model rule is 4.4:

    (b) A lawyer who receives a document or electronically stored information relating to the representation of the lawyer’s client and knows or reasonably should know that the document or electronically stored information was inadvertently sent shall promptly notify the sender.

    So the minimum is notice, and different jurisdictions do more or less after that requirement. But notice plus 10 days wait for a demand or further action from opposing counsel sounds reasonable.

    ETA: Even though an attorney’s first duty is to their client, they also must maintain the rights of third parties — here, Jones.

  91. 91.

    Immanentize

    @Barbara: exacatickatackily.

    Although, contra Eversore, the cloud is here to stay in law. Might be more vulnerable, but encrypted cloud storage is ubiquitous.

  93. 93.

    MattF

    On the question of J6 relevance, Jones was in the small group leading the march from the Ellipse to the Capitol. One may or may not believe that his presence was merely coincidental. But I’d check and see who he was in touch with around that time.

  96. 96.

    eversor

    @Barbara:

    Kinda?  The reason IT certfications exist and matter more than degrees for getting a job is you are trained up to those standards and passed the test, and you can’t pass these with a D grade like in college many are brutal.

    These are all made public.  IE DISA (Defense Information Systems Agency) publishes it’s requirements as STIGS and you can download software to run to see if your configuration passes.  All industries do this.

    But what you hit on is somewhat correct in that small firms don’t have standards to meet so they can’t enforced.  However this is a high level trial with a presumed high powered law person.  When I last did law work we handled big IP issues with tech firms you all know but also did criminal crap for rich people and part of the sell was out standards.

    The other issue is if people are cheap on IT those you want working on it will back out of it before they get named in an issue and those who stick around are not so good at what they do.  Even if you go with a managed service team you contract out to you get what you pay for.   People hate paying for IT, people hate IT, we are like HR scum of the earth evil assholes who exist only to tell you no and lock you out of things.  But having a good IT team that is not bossed about by some partner on a rampage is an asset, it will save you from shit like well… what just happened.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    Omnes! Don’t do it brother! It’s your birthday.

    Let the crank troll be under the bridge. No Billy Goat OO today because — today is not that day!

    Luv, Imm

  98. 98.

    eversor

    @Immanentize:

    Kinda, it’s not the cloud like you think of it.  Yes Azure AD and locked locations do exist.   But stuff like “I want to upload to dropbox” is still a hard no.  I meant cloud storage, not services.  I myself do Azure and AWS by day.

  100. 100.

    Barbara

    @Immanentize: The problem with using the cloud or DropBox like this for “convenience” means that nobody really knows what the intent behind the disclosure is.  I don’t know the terms of their agreement — maybe they set it up so that one party would inform the other by email when it made a production, just as a kind of double check to avoid mistakes.  So seeing documents in the pipeline but with no cover email might have put the attorney on notice that it might have been a mistake.  But in my view, if you park something in a site that you know the other side has access to you have to assume that they will look at it.

  103. 103.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @eversor: Tell Rev Warnock and Rev Barber that.   My guess is that they do more in a week for our side than you do in a year.

  104. 104.

    Tony G

    I hope that Jones ends up homeless and begging for food after this.  But how on earth could the lawyer have done this “mistakenly”??   Weird.

  109. 109.

    Betty Cracker

    @eversor: I’ve got absolutely ZERO use for religion and agree that it has caused untold misery and destruction in the world (not just Christianity). But lumping the Unitarians in with the Southern Baptist Convention is simply inaccurate and declaring them all enemies is nuts. Even among the born-agains, the spectrum runs from Jimmy Carter to Robert Jeffress.

  111. 111.

    HumboldtBlue

    Lawyers is this a thing that is or will happen?

    Somewhere in the Capitol complex right now, a lawyer from the January 6 committee is writing a letter to the Sandy Hook parents’ lawyers requesting they produce Alex Jones’s phone records. Somewhere at DOJ, a different lawyer is doing the same thing.

  112. 112.

    germy shoemangler

    @Tony G:

    He won’t have to beg for food.  He probably has warehouses full of unsold pre-packaged disaster meals.  He could live for decades on them.

  113. 113.

    germy shoemangler

    Three details about Alex Jones and January 6 that may be of interest:

    1) Two of Alex Jones’ employees, Owen Shroyer (who testified in this trial) and Sam Montoya were arrested last year, August and May. They’re claiming to be considering pleading.

    — emptywheel (@emptywheel) August 3, 2022

  115. 115.

    germy shoemangler

    As the world turns

    Alex Jones’ ex-wife here, and I’m going to subpoena this data! Won a jury, lost my kids for blowing the whistle on infowars. Subpoena request will go out t o d a y. t.co/uu90cvQuOl

    — Kelly Jones (@RealKellyJones) August 3, 2022

  117. 117.

    terraformer

    we need a *long* series of people getting their comeuppance before I start to feel better that bad people in positions of power and influence do indeed receive their just desserts

  119. 119.

    The Moar You Know

    Even if you believed the lies about the Sandy Hook parents being “crisis actors,” why would you be willing to destroy your own life and lose your family over something that had absolutely nothing to do with you? It’s unfathomable to me. 

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve been told something that can’t possibly be true, that when considering a motto for the United States, “In God We Trust” narrowly beat out “Mind Your Own Business”.

    What a better country we might be if “Mind Your Own Business” were the national motto.  Too good to be true.

  120. 120.

    Tenar Arha

    @Old School: @Lyrebird: @different-church-lady:

    I think that they have to be subpoenaed, bc there’s one in the works from the J6 committee already. Like almost as soon as it was revealed in court.

    These internal deliberations among the committee, which is probing former President Donald Trump’s role in causing the deadly Jan. 6 Capitol riot, began within minutes of the lawyer’s revelation being heard on the trial’s livestream on Wednesday afternoon.

    i Just hope the DOJ is working on one too 😏

  121. 121.

    Sure Lurkalot

    It is more than maddening that the horrific event this trial is occasioned upon happened almost 10 years ago. How many more people were poisoned by infowars in the meanwhile and how much further down the rathole the already lost?

    Bannon is out there every day promoting and inciting civil unrest.

    Even when they get caught, they’re free to carry on.

    That this is lucrative to an extreme is awful. How does a society stop unjustly enriching these provocateurs?

  122. 122.

    HumboldtBlue

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Rolling Stone has an answer.

    Exclusive: Jan. 6 Committee Prepares to Subpoena Alex Jones’ Texts, Emails
    Jones’ lawyers in a Sandy Hook defamation case fumbled three years worth of texts and emails. The committee would like to know more about any contacts with Donald Trump’s team regarding the Jan. 6 Capitol attack

  123. 123.

    germy shoemangler

    Pelosi: “They didn’t say anything when the men came.” A reference to the fact that in April, US senators Lindsey Graham, Bob Menendez, Richard Burr, Ben Sasse, Rob Portman, and Ronny Jackson visited Taiwan. pic.twitter.com/TwW8t36Bxy

    — Melissa Chan (@melissakchan) August 3, 2022

    It is curious that no one really seemed to mind nearly as much when the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee & five other Senators visited Taiwan. t.co/Vb1RFYkd4f

    — Mark Copelovitch (@mcopelov) August 3, 2022

    It’s almost like it’s a… manufactured controversy.

  124. 124.

    eversor

    @Betty Cracker:

    Unitarians aren’t Christians!  Yes Christianity is hard left caring for the poor and all that good stuff, but it’s even harder right on patriarchy, gender, sex, capitol/physical punishment.  Not just the old testement, also the new!  Also Jesus, Paul, and it’s teachings.

    Actual Christianity is extreme right socially and extreme left economically.   So either buy into both or you aren’t really Christian.  Which is why the far right gets it more correct than anybody else.  If you think women should work and not be killed for adultery and shouldn’t submit to their husbands, you’re not Christian and you’re just twisting shit and denying the reality of it.   Again the same, if you aren’t donating to the poor, helping the weak and sick, y ou aren’t Christian and you are just twisting it and denying it.  But you cannot pull appart the left wing economic views and toss aside the far right social views and call it a day.

    That’s why hope is 20 or 30 years out.  Where the younger generations who are very not religious but are economically left take power.  Climate change also depends on removing Christianity.

    Good Christians are like good Republicans.  Sure they exist.  But they are a minority, don’t understand the group they are in, get what they are supporting wrong, and only serve to give cover to the real problem.   And if we didn’t have Christianity we wouldn’t have a Republican problem.   So go to the root problem, get rid of the cross.

  125. 125.

    Steeplejack

    Popehat, appropriately renymed “Somewhat​Problematic​Cross​Examination​Hat,” weighs in:

    Jones case is reminding me of action movies where it’s not enough that the bad guy gets shot or stabbed at the end he’s got to be like decapitated and exploded and impaled at the same time.

    — Somewhat​Problematic​Cross​Examination​Hat (@Popehat) August 3, 2022

    He’s also got a new Substack essay, “Alex Jones at the Tower of Babel.”

  130. 130.

    BeautifulPlumage

    The revelation of the texts his lawyer sent to the prosecutor are proof that Jones committed perjury. Who would be the prosecuting party in that case? The court where he perjured himself?

  132. 132.

    eversor

    @germy shoemangler:

    Insert a thousand jokes about MRE here (Meals Refusing to Exit, Meals Ready not Eddible).  Unless it’s all chili and beans, chili pasta, or chili mac you don’t want to eat it.  Most of them suck.

    IMHO the Koreans have the best plastic heat it up stuff and the French take the cake as if you get the good ones you get canned seafood and meats, which is not viewed as cheap food there and done much better.  Anytime it comes in a can you know it’s what you want.

  133. 133.

    Miss Bianca

    @germy shoemangler: God damn it – exactly. Why is it “a controversy” when a DEMOCRATIC WOMAN LEADER visits Taiwan, and a nothingburger when it’s a bunch of male Republicans?

  134. 134.

    Old School

    @eversor:

    If you think women should work and not be killed for adultery and shouldn’t submit to their husbands, you’re not Christian and you’re just twisting shit and denying the reality of it.

    As Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.  No one?  OK, sinners can throw too as this woman needs to be put to death.”

  135. 135.

    Feathers

    Having worked in faculty support doing IT issues, this sort of thing happens often, but with lower stakes consequences. Boss is told, no, you can’t do that. Let me set it up for you and get everything you need set. Boss: Eff this shite, you can’t tell me what to do, I want to access this on my phone at Starbucks and you can’t stop me. Proceeds to upload phone files to plaintiff lawyer’s Dropbox instead of the “Wow! Check out the nudes Alex Jones gets sent!” Dropbox.

    Honestly, pretending your agent dropped your phone into the North Sea before doing the backups required by the judge, but after the request was made, was a better move than this. In case you didn’t follow the WAGatha Christie case, the lying fool lost big. She leaked a “friend’s” private instagram posts to a tabloid. Got caught when friend set a trap to find out who was doing it. Friend publicly called her out. Instead of taking the L, fool sued. Fool now out millions.

    Quite the week for phones in court cases.

  138. 138.

    eversor

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Than every anti republican, conservative, trumper comment here is biggoted.  You still don’t get that.  You want to protect this one little thing that caused all the other things while being free to rage against all the other things and don’t get why shit is so bad.  You have to let go of it.  That one thing caused all the other things, and if you won’t destroy it now you will only delay it’s true triumph and then we will suffer for it.

    At the core, the enlightenment and democracy are anti Christian.  So which side do you want to stand on, you can’t do both.  Quit acting like you can.  Quit saying you can be pro choice and Christian cause you cannot be now, that’s even more insane than being a pro choice Republican or pro choice Trump voter.   Until you see this you have lost everything, will gain temporary wins, until a grand defeat.  If you will not admit this is the reality you face, then you are like a “save the Republican party” level fool but on a worse level.  Because the evil of Christianity and all it’s horrors has existed far longer than the evil of the GOP, infact it’s Christianity that really fucked up the GOP.

  139. 139.

    Betty Cracker

    @eversor: As you acknowledge, socially and economically liberal Christians exist. They might be the minority of people who call themselves Christians (at least in America), but they aren’t the enemy, and good luck convincing them they aren’t really Christians. It doesn’t seem to work that way. People interpret their foundational texts in all kinds of ways.

    I totally get the link between levels of religiosity and social dysfunction (again, not just in Christianity), but I don’t think religion is the root cause of human ills. Some of the world’s most monstrous atrocities have been committed under non-religious banners. Human nature is the problem, IMO. Maybe it will get better. Maybe it won’t. But wiping out religion is probably impossible, and it isn’t a practical solution to what ails us anyway.

  142. 142.

    misterpuff

    @The Moar You Know:  Of course, to protect The Homeland, our motto is now “If you see something, say something”.

    A nation of snitches and secret police….thank Dog for the crowd sourced snitchers that identified many of the Jan 6 rioters.

  143. 143.

    Fair Economist

    @Xantar: The best part is when the black guy in slave costume walks up to the spiral staircase where one of the white women is doing a Scarlett O’Hara routine. She gets this horrified look on her face and starts pointing to him and (based on body language) complaining.

    Hah. Hoist by her own petard.

  145. 145.

    Jay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    rumour is, ( some what substantiated) is that Alex Jones took regular trips down to Central America/Caribbean, for oxy binges and sex with underage male sex workers.

  148. 148.

    ian

    @eversor:

    Unitarianism (from Latin unitas “unity, oneness”, from unus “one”) is a nontrinitarian Christian theological movement that believes that the God in Christianity is one singular person. Most other branches of Christianity define God as one being in three persons: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    You are not in charge of deciding who passes as what religion.

  151. 151.

    Feathers

    @Xantar: That is hilarious. His costume was so well done. He even got pictures of himself picking cotton in the plantation’s field. I like the fact that his close friends found it hilarious.

    In case people were wondering, the HR lady who thought the whole thing up got fired. Head of HR contacted OP, he got a promotion, with slightly increased responsibilities and a highly increased wage. Also work from home privileges. He sounds very happy with the outcome.

  152. 152.

    BruceFromOhio

    That worthless bag of rotting meat passing for a human being already started the process of hiding from justice when its ‘company’ declared bankruptcy. Two-bit ratfuck soulless criminals like this lack the wiring for humanity, compassion, empathy – such things can be feigned under duress, and jettisoned the first possible moment. As such, there is no such thing as justice in the world, it seeks only profit and an audience as thinly disguised reasons for existence. Even jailing the dumb fuck would make it worse, the rest of the meat bags would just make it a martyr. No paupers end here, it will continue to grift and con the rubes, there’s plenty to go around.

  154. 154.

    satby

    @HumboldtBlue: Didn’t wish her harm, but not going to be missed. She was a horrible person, and represented South Bend very badly. Sedition caucus member invisible in her district.

  156. 156.

    eversor

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    We had military style power bars, lighter, and washed down faster, if we asked.  Plus when we got back we had the Navy mess on the ship after a bit where it is real cooked food all the time and you can pig the fuck out.  Carrier food is pretty good, if way overcooked.  Surf and turf, crab legs, burgers how you want, stewed beef, pork chops, fried chicken, all the norm.  Plus omletes how you like each morning.  Due to my position i could raid the Admirals Mess and go get items in the middle of the night and nobody cared…. I did once get yelled at by an O-3 but he got shut down pretty fast (was in a bathrob and didn’t have my command badge on).  Plus 24/7 breakfast because Navy ship.   Bean burritos and softboiled eggs are really all you need.

    Our situation was while on ship and on watch if you wanted to eat, go fucking eat.  But since you can’t bring food back to the watch (this was a TFCC attached to triple SCIFS that also attached to the admirals chambers, and also CIC and some sub stuff we never knew what was done there) we were told to raid his kitchen and ask his night cook who did nothing but play Playstation 2.  So if you wanted fried PBJ and bannas it was on offer.  The ships officers hated us enlisted doing it but the admiral gave no fucks as it was mostly a 10 foot walk ordering 10 of them up and then coming back and doling them out.  So faster and easier for him.

  159. 159.

    raven

    @eversor: Back in the day they made special C-Rats just for the three ROK (two Army one Marine) units because they couldn’t hack ours.

  163. 163.

    RaflW

    @ian & others: I’ve been a UU – Unitarian Universalist – for over 40 years. Yes each branch has roots in Christianity, with the Unitarians being by definition non-trinitarian of course.

    But as practiced in these times, as a non-credal faith, one cannot say we are or are not Christian. Because we welcome members and friends who inform their personal theology via many paths, including Christ. And Gautama Buddha. And Sufism. And the prophet Muhammad. And humanism. And so on.

  167. 167.

    Steve in the ATL

    @RaflW: I’m down with non-Trinitarian. In this busy world, who has time for three gods when one will do?

  168. 168.

    raven

    The google informs me that “C-Rats” were discontinued after WW2 and replaced with Meal, Combat, Individual (MCI) We called them C-Rats!

  175. 175.

    eversor

    @raven:

    A friend of mine is ROK and the bibimbap is amazing.  Kimchi is good as well.  Funny thing one of the reasons instant noodles are a thing is when the Japanese and Koreans went into space they insisted on their comfort food.

  178. 178.

    eversor

    @raven:

    A friend of mine is ROK and the bibimbap is amazing.  Kimchi is good as well.  Funny thing one of the reasons instant noodles are a thing is when the Japanese and Koreans went into space they insisted on their comfort food.

  180. 180.

    Dan B

    @RaflW: A local evangelical, Free Methodist, university, Seattle Pacific University is being sued by the State AG for firing gay employees.  They are claiming that gay students who identify as Christians are not, “because we define who is Christian.”  If the Christian right won control of the US the infighting would be a bloodbath.  The Founding Fathers knew that.

  181. 181.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Miss Bianca:

    God damn it – exactly. Why is it “a controversy” when a DEMOCRATIC WOMAN LEADER visits Taiwan, and a nothingburger when it’s a bunch of male Republicans?

    Because the Republicans are just there for a meet-n-greet with their bagmen. The Democrat is there to support democracy.

  182. 182.

    Miss Bianca

    @PAM Dirac: Yeah. They stole my schtick!

    They’re also pretty rad.

     

    btw, am going to be back in the greater Baltimore area later this month for my sister’s memorial service. How time flies…even when you’re *not* having fun.

  184. 184.

    Salty Sam

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He plays a character, and it’s like after all this time, he’s become that character. If he ever was different, he no longer is.

    “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night

  185. 185.

    Dan B

    @danielx: Me too and I’m 100% gold star GAY!!  But gross hypocrits like Alex Jones want LGBTQ people invisible and not heard so they can get away with their flavor of perversion and abuse without being called out by well adjusted and respected LGBTQ.  Thiel wanted it that way too.

  186. 186.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Unbelievable.Alex Jones' lawyer just closed his argument in the Sandy Hook defamation case with German pastor Martin Niemöller's "First they came for the socialists… Then they came for the Jews…" prose poem.Again, this was Alex Jones' lawyer.— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) August 3, 2022

  187. 187.

    germy shoemangler

    @Salty Sam:  “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”

    I never understood that quote.

    Trump pretends to be a great businessman.  He’s not.  He pretends to be a lot of things that he is obviously not.

  189. 189.

    PAM Dirac

    @Miss Bianca: I hope the service goes well. We finally buried my brother in May. Arlington knows how to do services right. Let me know if you have a chance to come by here. The road construction is finished and the 2021 wines turned out pretty good if I say so myself.

  190. 190.

    livewyre

    @Dan B: ​

    There’s a lot of leverage in wedging off Christian or religious groups in general from anything remotely progressive. Note how the point about prominent Reverends and their work was ignored. It doesn’t fit the narrative of Christianity being conservative and only conservative – which is a narrative that only works for conservatism.

  192. 192.

    Gin & Tonic

    @eversor: Couple of months ago, I was in the local Asian market and bought some clearly Korean instant noodles. Nearly everything on the package was in Korean, except for the ingredients list and the notation that it was manufactured in russia. Oh well, into the trash.

  193. 193.

    Miss Bianca

    @PAM Dirac: Awesome! I would love to sneak in a visit if there’s time. Had such a great time with you and your lovely wife last fall. And you mean I might be able to find your house now without eleventy-million texts and phone calls? SHEER MAGIC!

  200. 200.

    PAM Dirac

    @Miss Bianca: It seems the worst now is just shutting one lane down at random times and using flag guys. I’m not over confident, but I think you wouldn’t have to do a couple of mile loop. Oh and I found this note on one of Rasputina’s videos. Seems about right.

    Victorian Gothic music churned up in a cauldron, with all manner of boogie woogie witchy woo, until it comes out madder than a hatter.

  206. 206.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Re Jones: You love to see it.  I bet USAO/DOJ will be very interested in seeing all his texts leading up to and including 1/6.

  209. 209.

    Dan B

    @livewyre: True.  Christians behaving like Jesus is weak news.  2/3 of Christian churches in Seattle metro are very pro-LGBTQ+ but almost no one knows it.

  211. 211.

    RaflW

    OT, but profile in courage Rand Paul voted ‘present’ on NATO admission of SE and FI.

    Russian tool Hawley votes no.

  213. 213.

    trollhattan

    @Ken: Now that you mention it, that is in every DA’s toolkit. Considering the body count the mister racked up that night, could have been a consideration!

  214. 214.

    raven

    @eversor: My favorite in the Ville was yaki mandu. It was only years later that I learned it was a Japanese import. Kimchi was something we really disliked because the winter brand left the Koreans with flamethrower breath! WE had KATUSA’s who filled out our badly understrength TO&E.

  216. 216.

    Gin & Tonic

    @RaflW: Fucking Tom Cotton was calling Hawley out. Where do you have to be for Tom Cotton to seem sane in comparison?

  218. 218.

    raven

    @PAM Dirac: They do a wonderful job at Arlington. I’ve been to two and they were really well done. Now, when they locked out 5 Gold Star Mother’s, not so great.

  219. 219.

    Geminid

    @satby: That was a bad wreck. Reports are that Walorski and two staffers were driving south on SR19, Elkhart County, when a car crossed the center line and hit Warlowski’s SUV head on at about 12:30pm. All four people died at the scene: Warlowski, age 58; Zachary Potts, 27; Emma Thompson, 28; and the driver of the northbound car, Edith Schmucker, 56.

    Speaker Pelosi has ordered flags at the Capitol to be flown at half staff.

  220. 220.

    livewyre

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​

    Exactly. I couldn’t help but note the case being made over and over again that a vital constituency and source of advocacy for our issues and representatives is not only actually an enemy, but part of the greatest enemy of all, against whom we should presumably focus all of our energies to eliminate before doing anything else. Any port in a storm, I guess.

  222. 222.

    RandomMonster

    If there’s any justice, the court judgment will pauperize Jones and he’ll take up residence under a bridge like a common troll.

    From your fingers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s orechiette.

  223. 223.

    HumboldtBlue

    “Speech is free, but you have to pay for your lies.” — Sandy Hook family’s lawyer Kyle Farrar

    “[Alex Jones] made them live their lives in fear, fear of being harmed or murdered by people who follow the lies.”

  225. 225.

    zhena gogolia

    Hawley’s voice is like nails on a chalkboard for me. What a hypocritical asshole. I’m ashamed to have any association with Yale.

  226. 226.

    lowtechcyclist

    @eversor:

    Actual Christianity is extreme right socially and extreme left economically. So either buy into both or you aren’t really Christian.

    I’ve known the Lord for coming up on 52 years.  Since it’s way to late to make all that un-happen, I don’t really care whether you think I’m not really a Christian.  Things like that aren’t undone.

  227. 227.

    Another Scott

    @SamIAm: I wondered about that too.  But the plaintiff’s attorney says in the clip (IIRC) that they got a dump of the whole of his phone.  Going back 2 years.

    I’m sure several grand juries and congressional committees would love to see that information.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  228. 228.

    eversor

    Also, on K people instant noodles you’re looking at these nongshimusa.com/homev2/our-products/shin-brand/shin-ramyun/ top brand with a USA plant, also this samyangfoods.com/eng/index.do if you are getting non USA or Korea products from them something has gone wrong at the supply chain level.

    I live in NoVA and we have a Korean transplant county here and they are all over the place (for the best really, love the food, but Annandale VA is jokes as “Korean for move here”) they eat those and they would not dare get caught selling the low grade stuff.  Even the white people here would figure it out.

    Plus great events.

  229. 229.

    different-church-lady

    Well, Mr. Jones appears to have moved into damage control mode. (Also known as “Please don’t take every last bit of my money, I’m reeeeeealllly sorry!” mode)

    AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones testified Wednesday that he now understands it was irresponsible of him to declare the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre a hoax and that he now believes it was “100% real.”

    [snip]

    “Especially since I’ve met the parents. It’s 100% real,” Jones said at his trial to determine how much he and his media company, Free Speech Systems, owe for defaming Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis.

  230. 230.

    StringOnAStick

    @Jackie: Wouldn’t it it be amazing if by getting access to the Jones phone, the J6 committee gets all or a huge chunk of what the SS and various tRump government functionaries were supposed to produce, but erased?

  234. 234.

    Suzanne

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve got absolutely ZERO use for religion and agree that it has caused untold misery and destruction in the world (not just Christianity). But lumping the Unitarians in with the Southern Baptist Convention is simply inaccurate and declaring them all enemies is nuts. Even among the born-agains, the spectrum runs from Jimmy Carter to Robert Jeffress. 

    Eh.
    Groups that have relative power/privilege need to get called out as such, and if individuals don’t see themselves reflected in the statement, they should remember “if it’s not about you, it’s not about you”, IMO. That comes from feminist discourse telling men that they need to let women discuss patriarchy without insisting that people flatter them by excepting them all the time. #notallmen is just as obnoxious as #notallchristians or whatever.

    Christianity — as a power movement — deserves to get called out for its bullshit. There are certainly times when more nuance is merited, but even “good Christians” should endure some discomfort and think about whether or not their actions or institutions cause harm.

  236. 236.

    mrmoshpotato

    I know some people aren’t fans of Dan, but this is just funny.

    There was a conspiracy to bring down Alex Jones that was led by Alex Jones and Alex Jones was in on it all along. It's the only way it makes sense.— Dan Savage (@fakedansavage) August 3, 2022

  238. 238.

    livewyre

    @Suzanne: ​ That’s well and good, but what we’ve been seeing has not been a callout of actions taken in the name of Christianity, but a condemnation of the essence of the name in itself – to the point of separating the name from any possibility of good actions undertaken within it.
    Accountability is one thing; we agree that #notallmen detracts from such. But that’s different from saying – not implying, saying outright and combatively – that the problem with feminism is that it doesn’t take punitive enough measures against any concept of masculinity at all, in this analogy.​ That absolutism, that reactive bigotry, is what I and others take exception to.

  240. 240.

    eversor

    @livewyre:

    If you won’t take that also to Republicans, Trump voters, Conservatives, than you make no point.  If we can call out one we can call out all.  I say call out the the root, The Cross.

  241. 241.

    Citizen Alan

    @Omnes Omnibus:  Perhaps we can compromise. Let us agree that every religious denomination that was expressly founded for the purpose of reassuring anti bellum slave owners that God was OK with theight with them raping their female slaves and selling their bastard children on the auction block is inherently evil and should be fought tooth and nail

  244. 244.

    Citizen Alan

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, but you say that like the Southern  Baptists themselves won’t unhesitatingly dismiss the idea that liberal christians are in fact christians.  From my personal experience dealing with the Southern Baptist denominations denominations, I think most of them believe that any Christian who doesn’t tow the right wing white supremacist wine might as well be an atheist.

  245. 245.

    Dopey-o

    @Xantar: A company decided to hold a party at a plantation in Alabama with “period appropriate dress.” The one black employee showed up in the appropriate costume and caused quite a stir.

    Why are there no pictures? Ya know, it really would be much more amusing with pictures….

  247. 247.

    Citizen Alan

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, but you say that like the Southern  Baptists themselves won’t unhesitatingly dismiss the idea that liberal christians are in fact christians.  From my personal experience dealing with the Southern Baptist denominations denominations, I think most of them believe that any Christian who doesn’t tow the right wing white supremacist wine might as well be an atheist.

  248. 248.

    livewyre

    Here’s where I really think we’re getting to the root of the matter, so to speak. Per my usual refrain: is the problem one of essence or of action? Is the problem with Christianity only and entirely that it is Christian? Is that the long and short of it? At that point, the only possible thing to do about it would be to get rid of it. What it does, or what its members do, becomes irrelevant – it’s only the identity that counts. But that seems a bit off.

    So what is it that we’re actually objecting to, then? What’s founded in blood has a lot to answer for. Most sovereign countries, for instance. What’s said about Southern Baptism could apply as well to the United States and the would-be Confederacy that tried to spring from it and settled for poison instead. That’s essence for you. I think we’re better off fixing what we have, no matter what we have, or what symbol it carries. The results so far – even just today – are clear enough for me.

  249. 249.

    Kent

    I know this is probably a dead thread, but did anyone else see the parallel post on LGM where they referenced and NBC article saying that there was also CHILD PORN on Jones’ phone?  Sheesh, but of course there was:  nbcnews.com/news/us-news/child-porn-found-documents-alex-jones-sent-sandy-hook-family-n1018541

    Lawyers representing families of Sandy Hook massacre victims who are suing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones said they received child pornography in documents they were sent by the Infowars founder, according to court papers filed Monday in Connecticut.

    Consultants working with the lawyers discovered the images in the documents that were requested during a court hearing in April, the filing states. A lawyer representing the families immediately alerted the FBI, according to the filing.

    “The FBI advised counsel that its review located numerous additional illegal images, which had apparently been sent to Infowars email address,” the filing says.

  252. 252.

    Tony G

    @mrmoshpotato: My Psychology-101 training tells me that Alex Jones is well aware of what a repulsive human being he is, and he wants to be punished for it.  He should get his wish.

  257. 257.

    TerryC

    @SamIAm:

     

    @raven: We used to hate when Taiwanese military were our cargo on LSD-19 cause we had rice instead of potatoes in the mess, not really American food.

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