Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

This really is a full service blog.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

You are here: Home / Elections / 2022 Elections / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Repubs in Disarray!

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Repubs in Disarray!

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Sorry, Rep. Kinzinger — don’t pretend it’s the Democrats who rejected Peter Meijer…


Even Josh Barro gets it:

Only Democrats have agency, the pundits insist, but only Republicans have the Wingnut Wurlitzer… which may turn out to be a double-edged sword:

Reader Interactions

286Comments

  2. 2.

    JPL

    Since I lost my democratic representative to extreme gerrymandering, Kinzinger can just whine to someone else.

  3. 3.

    SpaceUnit

    Modern GOP is like a version of Lord of the Flies where the adults never arrive on the island.

  5. 5.

    dm

    As I understand it, all the Democrats did was run an ad saying Meijer’s primary opponent was awfully Trumpy,  which is something that could serve to motivate the Democratic base seeing the ad.  It’s not as though they ran ads saying “Vote for this guy!”

  6. 6.

    Hoodie

    I don’t get the pretzel logic of Republicans like Kinzinger.  So, he’s saying it’s a bad thing for the Dems to tell people who Meijer’s challenger (Gibbs) is, i.e., he is Trump’s preferred candidate?  I would think you’d believe that being supported by Trump is a bad thing and that, if your GOP base was so worthy of representation by “reasonable” republicans such as yourself, the Dems would have been helping your cause by helping accurately define Gibbs.  Is he saying reasonable Republicans have to be able to bamboozle the GOP electorate in order to win?  Seems to be an admission that their version of the GOP doesn’t exist and that, still worse, they are bamboozling “reasonable” Republicans into thinking it does.

  7. 7.

    EarthWindFire

    I hate this DCCC strategy but goddamn, no one made GOP voters want these nutjobs. They did that all by themselves. Kinzinger can suck it.

  8. 8.

    Immanentize

    This whole “Dems paid money to support Gibbs” is just a steaming Alex Jones lie. And how did the Democrats “help” Gibbs win? They ran an add saying what a horrible Trumper he was. That’s it. They told the truth from the Democratic perspective that Gibbs was a bad, bad man. They did not run ads to support Gibbs or oppose Meijer. They just said what a shyte Gibbs was. And he is.

    And Kinzinger thinks this is supporting Gibbs? Well, only in the “Republicans are crazy law breakers world” Kinzinger has helped nurture for years. He is only slightly better than Meijer because of his work on the J6C. Beyond that, he is a hateful Republican that will lie himself to tear down Dems.

    Fuck him.

  11. 11.

    bjacques

    Kansas Republicans pulled every trick in the book to slip an anti-abortion amendment into the state Constitution, but Democrats (and maybe some Republicans and Mugwumps) twigged and flushed it down the toilet. Yet, Republican Trumpy voters picked a Trumpy candidate over a Trump apostate but otherwise reliable Republican (i.e., another Liz Cheney) because of DCCC flummery. Not likely, but not a good look for that state’s Republican voters even if it were.

  12. 12.

    JeanneT

    A week ago I got a call from Meijer’s campaign (I live in district) urging me to vote in the Rep primary and support Meijer. Right after that I heard him say that he supported Trump’s policies and that he believed human life began at conception. I decided to let the true Trumpy believers sort out who best represents them – and I donated $100 more to Hillary Scholten’s campaign.

  13. 13.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    does anyone doubt Meijer would have voted for McCarthy, or Jordan, or Stefanik or whatever trump supplicant the caucus coughed up, for Speaker if called upon?

  14. 14.

    Geminid

    I am ambivalent about Democrats throwing their weight behind Republican primary candidates. In the case of the Michigan 3rd CD primary, Democrats ran attack ads against the leading Republican. That’s justified I think as getting in their licks early. It may have influenced Republican voters in favor of Meijar’s opponent, but it did not turn the primary result. Meijer was going down anyway, just as fellow Impeacher Tom Rice went down in June in the South Carolina 7th CD primary with no interference by Democrats.

    I would expect Republicans to whine about this tactic, but I don’t like how left wing critics of Democrats are using this as proof that Democrats somehow are not serious in their opposition to Republican radicalism. This is a bad faith argument but I’m not surprised that Chris Hayes and his ilk have used it.

  15. 15.

    Ken

    I expect the Democrats will keep running that ad, now that Gibbs is the nominee. After all, the money’s been spent, and the message “Gibbs is a lunatic Trumpist ass-kisser” remains true.

  16. 16.

    geg6

    @Hoodie:

    They pulled this same whine out here in PA when Shapiro ran some ads pointing out how awful Mastriano is as a person. As if it’s Shapiro’s fault that their voters picked the biggest shitbag in the PA Senate to run for Governor.  Fuckem.

  18. 18.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: What does “throwing their weight behind” mean to you?

    That Democrats should under no circumstances spend money in a Republican primary? That seems foolish.

    You want Queensberry Rules to apply to Democrats when we are all Wilde?

  20. 20.

    eclare

    @Geminid:   No wonder I don’t watch Chris Hayes.  I don’t understand that argument at all.

    I like Pelosi’s simple advice:  just win, baby.

  21. 21.

    Immanentize

    @geg6: yes indeed, fuck em.

    Mastiano is a product of the School of the Americas. He is running an anti-democtratic insurgency, not a campaign. Oddly, I expect voting violence more in PA than in any other state.

  22. 22.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    What’s an “accelerationist”?

    Wrong & Bad Tweeter: “Everyone’s an accelerationist on every front”

    Gonelikehellmachine: “the fastest and easiest way to get on television is to go full accelerationist”

  25. 25.

    Miss Bianca

    @Geminid: I haven’t actually seen the ad. Is it true, as some commenters here have said, that it basically just points out what a Trumper Gibbs is? Because if so, I fail to see what the big deal is.

  26. 26.

    Suzanne

    @geg6: Mastriano is terrifying.

    Shapiro’s campaign is freaking me out, though. I signed up to volunteer, and they texted me and said they would call me about getting me on the calendar, and I haven’t heard from them. I hope they get some volunteer tasks organized!

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    So:  Republicans are complaining they are losing their primaries because of Democrats?

    I’m all for that.  Bring it on.

  32. 32.

    Danielx

    Sounds like Kinzinger’s issue is that Dems are starting to play by Republican rules.

    Rule #1: you have to WIN.

    That’s it. If pulling for Meijer’s opponent helps win in November, it’s acceptable. I understand Kinzinger’s sentiments, but being ‘nice’ by his standards has gotten Dems precisely nowhere.

    I will say Kinzinger has a guaranteed future as a political commentator. The FNYT would hire him in a New York minute as an expert in both-sides-ism. Or he could make bank as a foil on Fox News, provided he has a strong stomach.

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Bernice is dead, but I have her teeth, Mr. Literary Allusion Man.

    ETA:

    You say : “‘Ere long done do does did”
    Words which could only be your own
    And then produce the text
    From whence was ripped
    (Some dizzy whore, 1804)

  34. 34.

    StringOnAStick

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Well, the anarchist accelerationist view is to “enhance the contradictions” by making things as bad as possible so the whole system collapses, and then after the partisan civil wars, bloodshed and whatnot, you get the Glorious Workers Paradise.  I suspect the RW accelerationist has the same goal of making it all burn down, but then you get the Libertarian White Man Paradise.

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    I can see how Kinzinger would feel protective of Meijer, since they were both isolated votes to impeach, standing against an insane GOP caucus.  Those votes have come back to haunt those who cast them, although history will be sort of kind to them.

    But:  the GOP feels no gratitude towards them, and does not respect a vote of principle.  The GOP voter has devolved into a malicious score settler, with an appetite for ugliness and outrage.  Oh, and they don’t want to pay taxes, or actually pay for the marvels of modern life.

    Democrats did not build candidate Gibbs.  This is what Fox News and grievance world want.

  39. 39.

    Immanentize

    @StringOnAStick: the accelerationists are just the opposite of those (like me) who want to “immanentize the eschaton” which really refers to creating heaven here on earth.

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    We had this situation in Virginia when Tea Partying Dave Brat knocked Eric Cantor out in the GOP primary.  I had a friend confide that she regretted she’d voted for Brat, thinking he would be unelectable.

    However:  Brat was out in two terms.  Defeated by Abigail Spanberger.  It was a necessary step in the evolution of the district.

  43. 43.

    dmsilev

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    does anyone doubt Meijer would have voted for McCarthy, or Jordan, or Stefanik or whatever trump supplicant the caucus coughed up, for Speaker if called upon?

    Yeah, this is the key point. What matters most is who you support for Speaker, because the entire agenda of the House flows from that decision. A “moderate Republican” is still going to vote for Speaker Kevin McCarthy, still going to vote for all of the frothing maniacs potentially in line to chair the various committees, etc.

  44. 44.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle: Kinzinger can talk to the hand and to all the Democrats who lost after voting for the ACA. Republicans have always been whiny bastards who would use any advantage, lie, cheat, etc. to get power.

  49. 49.

    StringOnAStick

    Has anyone else gotten a “survey” in the mail from conservative Hillsdale College?  This was addressed to me, and we haven’t lived here that long.  They carefully mix in questions like “should the US Constitution be taught in schools” with “should we allow liberals to continue to teach children the evil anti ‘Merikan CRT?”  I filled it out, made some choice comments about how they are helping destroy democracy, noted that they should take me off their mail list, and put it all back into the postage paid envelope.

    Hillsdale in is MI, and my husband’s cousin has restored her marriage in all but legal standing to the libertoonian who is the father of their children.  They spend summers in MI now, and winters here, and he and I have had a few mild head butts over politics.  I suspect he put me on their mailing list because of that since he seems like the passive aggressive type.  His wife told me she’s getting increasingly fed up with his rants about trans kids in sports, asking why that even matters to him or anyone; I’d say hubby and the restored relationship are on thinning ice at this point.  Their entire social group here is liberal, and she’s been warned by one old college friend that if hubby starts doing the political rants he was known for before they got divorced, the friend will get up, tell Dave he’s an idiot, and walk out.  I think she values the old friendship very highly and has warned ol’ Dave the Libertoonian, but I’m betting on some fireworks this winter and I am here for it, especially once we crush the tRumpists at the polls.

  51. 51.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: By “throwing their weight” I mean using resources to influence the outcome of Republican primaries. Like I said, I’m ambivalent about the tactic. Claire McCaskill famously benefited from this it in 2012, and now a lot of people want to use it.

    McCaskill was a little lucky, though. It was not a given that Todd Akin would put his foot down his throat with his appalling comment about rape. Although I guess McCaskill could quote baseball manager Leo Durocher, who said that luck is the residue of good planning.

    But I’m not saying Democrats should under no circumstances spend money in a Republican primary. That is obvious from the part of my comment where I said that Democrats’ attack ads on Gibbs were “justified I think as getting their licks in early.”

    As for “Marquess of Queensberry rules,” I’m not advocating following any such doctrine. My attitude about attack ads, for instance is: “Below the belt? What belt?”

    I just question whether resources can not be used better. And if we make this a practice Republicans will too. We call this “ratfucking,” with good reason.

  52. 52.

    Jackie

    Former RNC Chairman, Michael Steele was subbing for Nicole Wallace today. He flat out said he thinks if Dem incumbents and challengers run on abortion/womens’ healthcare, and gun rights – Democrats will hold the House!

    I so hope he’s prophetic!!! I’ve felt that way since the Roe leak, and the recent mass shooting.

  54. 54.

    CliosFanBoy

    Hi all.  I need some advice, especially from the Buckeyes amongst you jackals. I have a cousin in Greene County whose family desperately needs help.  (Note, I am NOT asking for money, just advice.) Their house is falling down around them. They haven’t had hot water in two years and have not had electricity all summer. They are so far behind on their property tax they expect to be evicted. My cousin’s teeth are so rotten she can barely eat, and she has so many health issues she can’t work. They have a dog, but I’m sure it’s never seen a vet or gotten his shots. I have suggested to my cousin’s daughter that she take her Mom’s dog to a vet, and I’ll pick up the tab.  She’s agreed and is trying to arrange it.

    My cousin’s husband works more than fulltime, an 80-hour week is a short week for him, but it’s a low-paying job and I suspect a lot of goes to cigarettes for my cousin. Husband’s family has money but are MAGAnuts and have disowned him for being a Democrat so there’s no help in that quarter. Cousin’s stepmother is another MAGAnut and stole (!) all the money my uncle tried to leave his daughter, so my cousin didn’t get a penny.  And to add to the sorry tale, cousin’s 30-ish son lives at home but has no driver’s license anymore and doesn’t work. His Dad lives in the area, and they seem to get on well, but son refuses to ask for help.

    Unfortunately, both my cousin and her son suffer from such severe depression that they’re totally incapacitated.  Her married daughter and her daughter’s husband try to help, but they can’t do much financially, and my cousin and her son refuse to accept help.

    I’ve done as much as I can from 500 miles away. I’ve bought things for their home (like new sump pumps), paid their property tax bill in the past, and have offered to do more, but they refuse.  One of her friends in the area and I worked together to get my cousin’s teeth fixed (and share the cost between the two of us), but my cousin would not follow through, and when her friend’s child ran into severe health problems the friend had to back away.  BTW, my cousin does have health insurance through her husband’s job but refuses to use it! “It’s too much trouble.”

    My wife and I are both close to my cousin, but it’s so frustrating that she and her son will not take even the smallest action to help themselves. Sometimes we just want to throw up our hands and say to heck with it.

    Should I ask for help for my cousin from county or state social services? My cousin tried to apply for Social Security disability but found the process so confusing she gave up.  I think what she needs is a counselor who will walk her through what she needs to do but given this is Ohio we’re talking about; I wonder if such services even exist anymore.  I’ve looked through the Greene County site but haven’t found much there that’s helpful.

    Again, I am NOT asking for money, just advice.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    @StringOnAStick: I get their crazy newsletter in the mail every few weeks.  I figure they got my name from an ancient John McCain mailing list (I gave to him and Bill Bradley before New Hampshire in 2000 – I had weird political ideas back then).  I don’t think you should blame a family member for getting their mailings.

    I haven’t bothered to tell them to take me off.  I figure they can waste their funders money on me just fine and have less to spend doing effective damage.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: Surprise!! Republicans have been doing this for decades, mostly through PACs. How many he’s with AOC ads have run in Dem primaries to soften up candidates? Hundreds.

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    @Jackie: I think Steele is right. I just don’t see things getting that much better for the Republicans, and possibly a whole lot worse. I hope and pray that we retain the house and senate, and improve numbers in both. Voters know an out of control minority when they see one. Overturning Roe and flooding public places with guns?  Voters have had enough.

  65. 65.

    Al Rennick

    I don’t like how left wing critics of Democrats are using this as proof that Democrats somehow are not serious in their opposition to Republican radicalism. This is a bad faith argument but I’m not surprised that Chris Hayes and his ilk have used it.

    Shame on you Anne Laurie and all the commenters for advancing this incredibly bad faith and intellectually dishonest argument.  You’re all 100% dead wrong and Adam Kinzinger is 100% correct.

    You can’t say in one breath that Trump is an existential threat to this country and then turn around in the next breath and prop up his most delusional, crackpot supporters.

    This tactic endorsed by Pelosi and Biden is disgusting, despicable, and beneath contempt.

    Have you people no sense of decency? If you stab Republicans in the back for voting to impeach Trump, you have no moral compass.  Obviously, I want Democrats to win as many seats in Congress and in state and local offices as possible, but if they have to lose some races I want them to lose to sane, rational Republicans and not to deranged, batshit crazy MAGA Trump supporters.

    You people are a bunch of fucking hypocrites and are beneath contempt.

  66. 66.

    narya

    @CliosFanBoy: five rivers health centers. They’re federally qualified health centers, they serve people w/o regard for ability to pay. It looks like they have dental care, too, and likely behavioral health. They almost certainly have benefits navigators who can help with paperwork.

  68. 68.

    different-church-lady

    LEOPARDS WHO EAT FACES: “We’ve eaten all the faces except our own.”

    OTHER LEOPARDS WHO EAT FACES: “We’re called the ‘Leopards who eat EVERYONE’S faces Party.’ So… let’s get to it!”

  69. 69.

    Another Scott

    @CliosFanBoy: I’m sorry you and they are going through all that.  It sounds like they need a mental health advocate.  Depression is horrible and can be debilitating and can lead to all kinds of other problems that make things worse.

    OhioCares lists some resources that are available, but probably over-worked and under-funded. :-( Maybe start there?

    There could be other things going on – strokes can cause cognitive problems in addition to physical problems. It can all be overwhelming…

    Everything’s connected.

    It’s good of you to try to help. I hope there are resources closer to them that can do more.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    Roger Moore

    @Geminid:

    Although I guess McCaskill could quote baseball manager Leo Durocher, who said that luck is the residue of good planning.

    FWIW, that was Branch Rickey, not Leo Durocher.  Rickey was the planner behind both the farm system and desegregation of baseball.  Durocher was famous for saying “nice guys finish last”.  He also was a proponent of grabbing women he was interested in by the pussy.  If he got rejected, at least it happened fast enough he had a chance to move on to the next prospect.  If he wasn’t rejected, he knew he had found a woman who would sleep with him.

  73. 73.

    Immanentize

    @CliosFanBoy: @narya:
    Great suggestion. Although contrary to popular belief, many states prefer it when folks in trouble get the benefits they need and are entitled to. It actually save counties and states lots of money in the long run to sort things before the emergencies begin.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    @CliosFanBoy: Depression makes everything so much harder. Social services might be able to help but there are others here who can give better advice in this area than I could.

    A local Habitat for Humanity group might be able to help out on the house. Some churches do that kind of work also.

  78. 78.

    different-church-lady

    @Al Rennick: ​
     

    Obviously, I want Democrats to win as many seats in Congress and in state and local offices as possible

    Oh. Yeah. Obviously.

  82. 82.

    different-church-lady

    Seems like lately there’s a lot of wingnuts going around shouting, “Goddammit, these are supposed to be our dirty tricks!!!”

  86. 86.

    TS

    @Geminid:

    The GOP use all and any tactics. Given what is at stake, the Democratic Party surely has to use any legal tactics available. Going “high” has not been a winner since 2008.

  88. 88.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Immanntize

    @gwangung:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Thanks for identifying yourselves as morally bankrupt and intellectually dishonest.

    I’ve been saying that for years! Finally someone backs me up, and it’s totally not a troll!

  90. 90.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Immanentize: You’re saying Republican PACS are trying to shape Democratic primary results with “he’s with AOC” ads? I have not seen this. Is there a particular primary race you have in mind?

    I’ve seen plenty of such ads in general elections, though.

  92. 92.

    Al Rennick

    @different-church-lady:

    The problem with you and the other jackals is your inability to tell the difference between sane Republicans and MAGA Republicans.

    This isn’t a fucking game and this is no time to try playing 6 dimensional chess with these Republican primary races.

  93. 93.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Al Rennick: Hi stranger!

    Beneath contempt, are we?

    Well, that’s just like… your opinion, Man.

    Don’t worry, there will still be plenty of Republicans. Those mean Democrats aren’t omnipotent.

  105. 105.

    Steve in the ATL

    @TS:

    Going “high”

    I thought the phrase was “getting high”, not “going high”. Though the morning thread suggested that the new term is “Cali sober”.

  115. 115.

    Kent

    The reality is that there is zero difference between Meijer and Gibbs on anything that actually matters.  And no, a couple of GOP votes on impeachment didn’t actually matter. The real action was in the Senate.

    Both of them will vote for the same exact GOP agenda if the GOP takes back the House.  Of course they will.  On very major vote that actually matters.

    The only thing that matters is making sure that doesn’t happen.  If Gibbs is easier to defeat then that is an obvious thing to do.

    I’m not actually convinced that the GOP could manage to do the same thing in a closed Dem primary.  Because activist Dems who actually vote in primaries are far less likely to be fooled by GOP meddling.  And it would likely rebound to help the opposite candidate.  We just aren’t as feral and lizard brain as the GOP.

  118. 118.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Kent: if I may link your comment to Mr. Rennick’s, one can get an excellent chocolate cream pie at Meijer’s. Not that I get one and stash it in my hotel fridge whenever I’m in the Midwest….

  120. 120.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    This is bare knuckles campaigning.  It’s something LBJ would have done. (chef’s kiss🤌)

  124. 124.

    Steve in the ATL

    Are we getting too high brow tonight?  Don’t want to scare off the proles who keep this site almost in the top 10,000!

  125. 125.

    mrmoshpotato

    everyone’s more or less vying for trump’s acceptance, but trump himself is completely an absentee leader, he just rewards the people who get on the television.

    This is pathetic to the point where I feel sad for a party that’s been a god-damned, fucking pile of shit for my entire life.

    You poor, miserable bastards.

  127. 127.

    Kent

    @CliosFanBoy: Sometimes there isn’t much you can do.

    I have a cousin who we have all tried to help to no avail.   Her mother (my aunt) married an abusive psycho who died young and left the kids with the psycho in a double-wide in Tallahassee.  We sort of lost touch because he  kept the kids away from family events.  There were three kids, all my first cousins.

    Ten or so years later he dies.  My mother tries to help as best as she can.  The kids by now are 18-22.  The youngest girl they managed to get into nursing school.  She is married and doing well and living in north Chicago suburbs near where she went to school.  The middle boy is still living in the double wide in Tallahassee, still clerking at a convenience store after 10 years, and probably using/dealing meth.  The oldest cousin fell deep into Q-Anon world, was completely unemployable and unreachable.  She left Florida to try to join an older man from Quebec who she met online but couldn’t get across the border into Canada during Covid because she didn’t have a passport or current ID and ended up living homeless in some town in Maine.  No one could get her any help or reach her, not even her successful sister.  A few months ago we got the news that she had died homeless of an opioid overdose, probably Fentanyl.

    Not much any of us could have done short of kidnapping her and institutionalizing her against her will.  People have agency and they make their own choices, no matter how poor.

  129. 129.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    I love that woman [Nancy Pelosi]. I just worship her.

    The idea of a political campaign is to win the election. It acts in its own interest. In the state of Pennsylvania, it clearly was in Josh Shapiro’s interest that the republicans nominate Doug Mastriano.

    I wholeheartedly endorse this idea of being involved in primaries to help them nominate the stupidest, goofiest extreme person they can.

    ~ James Carville

  131. 131.

    Ken

    @different-church-lady: Hmm. I’d think it’s more likely that some of the leopards would announce they were more equal than the others, in the style of Animal Farm, and start chomping on the less-equal leopards.

    But I’m only saying that based on recent Republican infighting, which might not be a perfect analogy to face-eating leopards.

  132. 132.

    PAM Dirac

    @Geminid:

     

    By “throwing their weight” I mean using resources to influence the outcome of Republican primaries.

    I’m not even sure the main effect is on the R primary. I think it mostly insures that Ds who don’t pay attention to the R primary are clear on who the whack jobs are. I’m sure every specific case is different, but here in MD there was much whining about Ds doing the same thing; putting up ads that say this guy is a whack job Trumper. I think the biggest effect is to try to make candidates run on what they are and minimize the chances that they can reinvent themselves after a primary. In MD the only chance for a R to win state wide is to have a low key, relatively low red meat R primary and then play the sane and sensible R in the general so that the suburban D folks can feel all superior and bipartisany when they vote R in the general. If one candidate really is sane and sensible, then they can attack the whack job in the primary and if the R voters want a whack job, how is that Ds fault? If the other candidate wants to kind of present as a whack job in the primary and if they win go back to playing sane and sensible for the general why should Ds make that easier? I also find it weird that the underlying assumption is the R primary voters can’t possibly know who the whack jobs are unless the Ds tell them. I don’t think anyone endorsed by drumpf will not be known to the R voters. In MD there is certainly no evidence that the Ds ads made much of a difference. The R nominee for AG is even more of a whack job than the nominee for gov and the AG nominee actually did a bit better in the primary without the “help” of any D ads.

  139. 139.

    Kent

    @Al Rennick:

    Remind me again, who beat Hillary Clinton in 2016?

    Yes, there’s absolutely no chance at all that this brilliant strategy of promoting flat Earth MAGA Republicans in primary races has any chance at all of backfiring on Democrats in the 2022 midterm contests in November.

    So was Hillary Clinton the nominee due to GOP meddling in the Democratic primaries?

    Or was Trump the GOP nominee due to Democratic meddling in the GOP primaries?

    If not then your comparison to 2016 is meaningless.

    As for this is not a strategy that the GOP uses?  Don’t make me fucking laugh.  The ENTIRE Trump Ukraine extortion effort that led to his first impeachment was nothing more than an effort by Trump to pick his opponent in the 2020 election. That is all it was about.   Trying to dirty up Biden so he could get an easier opponent.  Democrats just aren’t as stupid as the feral MAGA bunch.

  142. 142.

    Jay

    @CliosFanBoy:

    as a depressive married to a depressive, the fundamental thing is diagnosis, acceptance and treatment.

    Breaking the spiral one day at a time, works.

    Many depressives refuse help, not because they don’t need it, but because they feel they don’t deserve it.

    Sometimes, relocation helps. We burned ourselves down to nothing in Kamloops, relocated to Vancouver, where there are jobs and services, and in 3 years, have gone from nothing, to doing okay for now, with some savings.

    As much as it frustrated me to go to a mismanaged place every day and bust my ass, for few attaboys, during Covid, it got me out of bed every day.

  144. 144.

    Steve in the ATL

    Remind me again, who beat Hillary Clinton in 2016?

    Republican Secretaries of State, aided and abetted by try Roberts/Taney court. But thanks for playing.

  146. 146.

    Steeplejack

    @Al Rennick:

    The problem with you is your inability to see that there are no sane Republicans. They vote for the same things as the MAGA Republicans and they push the same bullshit policies. The only way they differ is that they thought Trump was a little too icky in his endgame. At this point they all want Trumpism but without Trump.

  147. 147.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: That’s a very good point.  OTOH it’s a great way to spend Subaru Diane’s birthday, so it all works out.

  149. 149.

    PAM Dirac

    @patrick II:

     

    The big deal is that some Republicans are angry because it worked. As Trump becomes less popular I hope we see more.

    As noted above I’m skeptical that it works in the sense of changing the outcome of a primary. The expaination I heard that makes more sense is the “sane and sensible” Rs are mad that they lost and since they can’t blame the R voters, they blame the Ds.

  153. 153.

    geg6

    @Al Rennick:

    If you think the suburban college educated women of the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh regions are going to vote for Mastriano after months of pro-Shapiro ads painting Mastriano as the right wing Christianist  lunatic and insurrectionist that he is, thenI have a lovely bridge for sale.  I think you’ll really like it.

  154. 154.

    Geminid

    @Al Rennick: If Republicans take back the House it won’t be because Democrats are trying to manipulate the outcomes of a few Republican primaries. The respective contenders are in every case solid votes for a Republican Speaker. You can credibly argue that primary interference might lead to some worse Republicans being elected, but it won’t result in more Republicans being elected. It could even result in fewer Republicans being elected, which is the intent. Peter Meijer was going to lose regardless of any Democratic intervention, just like Tom Rice lost without Democrats sticking in their noses in the SC 7th race. The effort made to tear down Gibbs was general election resources well spent I think.

    I have yet to see the outcome of a Republican primary changed by Democratic spending so far this year. I think this issue is a tempest in a teapot ginned up by Republicans and soreheads like Mr. Hayes.

  159. 159.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SpaceUnit:

    Well, perhaps I’m a bad person but if the Dems make gains in the midterms I’m going to enjoy watching Republicans killing and eating one another. 

    Can I join your watch party?

  161. 161.

    japa21

    @Geminid: Agreed.  It also makes it harder for the candidate to suddenly start coming across as some type of reasonable candidate.  He/she has already been defined.

  162. 162.

    Immanentize

    @eclare: I still have my Pop’s vinyl of Herb Alpert. It gave a pre teen much to ponder. And the music was good too!

  163. 163.

    different-church-lady

    Right, so let’s see if I’ve got all this straight:
    SEMI-SANE GOP: “We don’t want the really crazy guy to win”
    DEMS: “Here’s an ad that says, ‘Do NOT vote for the really crazy guy. He’s really crazy.'”
    GOP VOTERS: [votes for really crazy guy in droves]
    SEMI-SANE GOP: “THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!”​

  167. 167.

    Ken

    @PAM Dirac: the “sane and sensible” Rs are mad that they lost and since they can’t blame the R voters, they blame the Ds.

    I don’t much care how they blame, as long as they sulk and stay home in November.

  169. 169.

    Miss Bianca

    @Al Rennick: yes, the food is so terrible here and the portions are so small too! Why don’t you ride your high horse on out of here and find more congenial company, bucko? Preferably sparing us another insufferably self-righteous screed before doing so.

  172. 172.

    piratedan

    hey you guys, go easy on Al or else you’ll force him to vote for GOP candidates just to validate his moral superiority.

    If only we hadn’t suffered thru Watergate, Reagan sabotaging Carter’s Iran hostage negotiations, Iran-Contra, the hypocrisy of shrub regarding Iran and ignoring Al Queda and the latest round of SCOTUS justices lying their way onto the bench, then perhaps holding the moral high-ground would have some sort of reward…. yet all we have to show for it is the disenfranchisement of voters, living in a quasi police-state and women losing the right to make medical decisions of their own bodies.

    we can all return to being nice to one another as soon as we deal with the hostage takers.

  176. 176.

    different-church-lady

    Oh christ almighty there’s kiddie porn in the Alex Jones documents…

    Never mind, old news report, I’m not going to look into whether it’s legit.

  182. 182.

    Geminid

    @PAM Dirac: Well as I’ve said, the attack ads on Gibbs were money well spent. And I don’t think the result of any Republican primary has been altered by Democratic spending anyway.

    It’s something “clever” Democratic strategists, professional and amateur, like to talk about though. The way Claire McCaskill helped determine her opponent is seen as a really neat trick that can be copied.

  191. 191.

    Immanentize

    @Miss Bianca: One of my friends in death penalty trials used to say during the punishment phase closing:

    “Everyone respects the truly righteous. But few can stand to be around the self-righteous.”

  194. 194.

    different-church-lady

    Welp, I’m about 25 min. away from knowing if an OS restore rescues the 14 year old laptop, or if I need to rebuild it from scratch.

  195. 195.

    Immanentize

    @Steve in the ATL: How about a better song:

    Aim for the body rare, you’ll see it on TV
    The worst thing in 1954 was the Bikini
    See the girl on the TV dressed in a Bikini
    She doesn’t think so but she’s dressed for the H-Bomb
    (For the H-Bomb)

  201. 201.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    Thanks to all for the good wishes last evening. Here is the promised update on my situation.
    Still not much change as far as imaging shows. My surgeon thinks we’ve given the conservative options* enough time with no joy, and I agree, so he will be doing surgery late tomorrow to try and clear out this blockage. I don’t look forward to the extra days of recovery in hospital, but have had no solid food and precious little liquid since July 24 and I’m starting to get weird electrolyte imbalances. Plus, I’m tired. So, under the knife I will go, with a clean conscience and hope in my heart.

    *Damned conservative options never live up to the hype. Trickle down voodoo crap.

  202. 202.

    lowtechcyclist

    @SpaceUnit:

    Enjoy the stars, but we’re still in the gutter.

    Speak for yourself!  I’m crawling through the storm drain pipes.

  204. 204.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: I agree with you, but — sad to say, the DCCC has plenty of cash sloshing about and if it helped at the margins great, if not, it may have appeased some of the “dosomethingactlikerepublicans” crowd. I read the ad buy was total 400k.

  207. 207.

    MazeDancer

    @CliosFanBoy: What if you hired a “case manager”? A social worker in Ohio that visits them a couple times a week. Who knows the system.

    Helps them with paperwork. Helps them with using their health insurance.

    They can pretend they came from the state.

    You can’t help people who won’t help themselves. But maybe a professional can.

  209. 209.

    CarolPW

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: ​
     You know, if you had trickle down crap you would be going home by now!
    Best of luck to you, hope they can just untangle things without excising anything important. Wishing you a small incision and rapid recovery.

  210. 210.

    Immanentize

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: You KNOW I both sympathize and empathize. Recovery is quick, and you will be sipping, then drinking, then chewing very soon afterwards.

    Good luck and dont forget to ask them for pictures! (My son said, after his surgery, “do you have any cool pics of my surgery?” And the surgeon, surprised, said yes. And texted them to him.)

  214. 214.

    lowtechcyclist

    @StringOnAStick: ​
     

    Has anyone else gotten a “survey” in the mail from conservative Hillsdale College?

    No, but I must’ve signed up for one of their mailing lists under the name Rufus Firefly, which apparently didn’t make anyone suspicious, since “Rufus” is getting periodicals from them delivered to my address.

    The most recent one had a piece about how they’d brought in Christopher Rufo as a visiting scholar or something like that, which tells you everything you need to know about their intellectual integrity.

  215. 215.

    Princess

    @Al Rennick: how is running an ad that says a candidate is a terrible guy who supports Trump, “propping up Trump”? We’ always hear you need to define your potential opponents early, before they can define you, but when the Dems do that, people clutch their pearls and faint.

  217. 217.

    Immanentize

    @David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

    If Shapiro can’t beat Mastriano, he was never going to win against a more moderate Goper. There were 9 candidates in that primary and no selfless acts by any of them. Mastriano couldn’t even get to 50% in his primary. And he is really radical on abortion (6 weeks, no exceptions). And yet, it is too tight for comfort.

  218. 218.

    Baud

    @lowtechcyclist:

    No, but I must’ve signed up for one of their mailing lists under the name Rufus Firefly

     

    That you didn’t choose this as your nym is a sin against this blog.

  221. 221.

    JMG

    The Beltway guys and gals will always, ALWAYS, faint dead away when Democrats do anything suggesting they’re tough and are ready to play hard. Their ideal Dem is that brow-furrowed ditherer Dick Durbin.

  222. 222.

    James E Powell

    Watching CNN and what is this? An ad promoting Democrats & the whatever it’s called act & urge your congressperson and it actually does not suck

    Related: Watching CNBC this afternoon, host was asking a hedge fund manager about Biden & the Democrats going after carried interest. He said it wouldn’t impact investments. She kept pressing him to say he was against, but he kept saying he didn’t care what congress does, that it wouldn’t change what he was doing in his business.

    I’ve seen too much cable news this summer. A lot of propaganda. Way more than I thought. No wonder we Democrats are always struggling.

  223. 223.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Steve in the ATL: ​
     

    @Immanentize: work Loverboy in there and you have most of what I hated about music in the eighties!

    And Foreigner. Can’t forget them. (dammit.)

  227. 227.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Does Kinzinger clutch his pearls when GOP leaders spend years painting every Dem as a radical Defund/Antifa in order to help Republicans win?

  228. 228.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    I think winning is Job 1 for Democrats, and helping prop up the weakest Republican opponent is absolutely part of that. Some of y’all may remember how Doug Jones got elected to the Senate from Alabama a few years ago. The key point is that it was a low turnout special election and Jones’ Republican opponent was Roy Moore, a man even some Alabama Republicans could not stomach. jones would have had zero chance agains Big Luther Strange backed by McConnell’s money, but Moore made the race competitive. I’m pretty sure some Democratic money was spent in ads targeting Strange, with or without Jones’ knowledge. And I’m not the only Alabama Democrat who voted for Roy Moore in the Republican primary. It was a dirty job, but somebody had to do it. As it turned out Moore didn’t even need my help, GOP voters loved his mall stalker persona.

  231. 231.

    CliosFanBoy

    @MazeDancer:   Thanks, how can I find one?

    Thank you for all the suggestions. I will follow up on them.  I also suffer from depression and have been taking medicine for it for years.  I can’t imagine NOT taking it by choice. I’d crawl over broken glass to get to it. But I know some people get into a hole and simply will not do anything to climb out of it without others pulling and pushing. I’ve been talking to my niece* and her husband and we’re trying to see what we can do together.

    • Ok, she’s a cousin’s kid and not a “real” niece, but she’s always called me “Uncle Cliosfan” so hey, she’s my niece.
  235. 235.

    Immanentize

    Just in case anyone needed their blood pressure raised before bed. All day, Bernie — the friggin budget chair — has been running down the Manchin/Biden compromise budget plan. That fucker just cannot stand to see Biden succeed:

    I’m LIVE on the floor of the Senate to make clear that now is the time for MAJOR legislation that meets the needs of our people. Right now, the Inflation Reduction Act falls short of that goal. https://t.co/GCBPaqFa3H— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) August 3, 2022

  236. 236.

    geg6

    @Immanentize:

    I think the latest two polls I saw referenced on tv has Shapiro up by 9.  I’m more suspicious of polls than most, but that doesn’t seem all that close.  Sure, it’s a bit less than Fetterman’s +10 and +11, but it’s not shabby.

  237. 237.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @Immanentize: ​
      ?? Shapiro is leading 50-40, how’s that too close.

    That’s par for the course for a first time gov candidate. Bob Casey won by 2 the first time he ran and then by 30 as an incumbent. Ed Rendell won 9 the first time he ran and then by 20. Tom Wolf won by 10 the first time he ran and then by 17.

  241. 241.

    Ken

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: I’m reminded of the Far Side cartoon “What Dogs Hear”, and thinking there a few people around here who will read your comment and come away with “blah blah blah  voted for Roy Moore blah blah blah…”

  243. 243.

    Spanky

    Good news via the AP:

    WASHINGTON — U.S. Senators delivered overwhelming bipartisan approval to NATO membership for Finland and Sweden Wednesday, calling expansion of the Western defensive bloc a “slam-dunk” for U.S. national security and a day of reckoning for Russian President Vladimir Putin over his invasion of Ukraine.

    AAaaaaaaand:

    Sen. Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican who often aligns his positions with those of the most ardent supporters of former President Donald Trump, cast the only no vote. Hawley took the Senate floor to call European security alliances a distraction from what he called the United States’ chief rival — China, not Russia.

    Asshole traitor? Or traitor asshole?

  249. 249.

    zhena gogolia

    @Spanky:

    Sen. Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican who often aligns his positions with those of the most ardent supporters of former President Donald Trump,

    I guess that means Putin!

  250. 250.

    HumboldtBlue

    @CliosFanBoy:

    I get called Uncle by my nieces and nephews (and most of their adult friends), their kids, and the kids of my younger cohort of friends up here whose kids are in the 10-12 range now.

  251. 251.

    Baud

    @Spanky:

    Sen. Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican who often aligns his positions with those of the most ardent supporters of former President Donald Trump, Russia cast the only no vote.

  252. 252.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    @CarolPW:

    Thanks. Something twisted would be best case. I’d even be happy with scar tissue that needs snipping, as the doc puts it.

    @Immanentize:

    Oh how I look forward to drinking and eating again. Every morning they take me down the the huge X-ray machines in the basement. Somewhere down there is a cafeteria and my mouth starts watering as soon as the elevator doors open.

  253. 253.

    Benw

    As the great FDR once said, “and I welcome their pearl-clutching, and they can eat a bag of dicks.” I’m pretty sure

  256. 256.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    @CliosFanBoy:  Thanks. Good luck with your cousin. I have no useful thoughts, but the suggestion to hire a private “social worker” to help is intriguing. For one thing it would remove the stigma of accepting charity which can hold people back from making use of what is offered. At least in my family, that would be a factor. You are a good person to try so hard to help.

  257. 257.

    Dangerman

    @Immanentize: A man of conviction. He should run for President.

    Oh, wait.

    Nader gave us Bush 2. Sandwrs gave us Trump. At least Nader has the good graces to STFU (is he even still alive? In which case, STFU while still living)

  258. 258.

    eversor

    Willing to bet the more right wing guy had the most CHRISTIAN support, and he’s a CHRISTIAN candidate.  Protest their churches, throw blood on their doors, harass them at lunch.  That’s start of what it takes to stop the CHRISTIAN threat to this nation, democracy, and humanity.  The issue is always Christianity.  Wake up.

  261. 261.

    livewyre

    Putting on a sandwich board is certainly one approach to getting the message across. It even somewhat looks like a wedge. Not sure it’ll have the presumed effect, but can’t fault the effort.

  262. 262.

    MazeDancer

    @CliosFanBoy: Call and ask. Ask everyone. Ask local community agencies. Google search community resources in Ohio.

    Someone will know someone who left to take care of kids or something but would like some part time work.

  264. 264.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    The U.S. Senate, in a bipartisan 86-11 vote, approved a measure to provide health care and benefits for millions of veterans injured by exposure to toxins, from Agent Orange in Vietnam to burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Known as the PACT Act, the bill no longer would force generations of veterans to prove that their illness was caused by toxic exposures suffered in the military in order to get VA coverage.

    All 11 voting against were republicans, including Vietnam draft dodger Mittens (he spent 3 years in … [checks notes]…. Paris, waiting out draft). (link to roll call vote)

  265. 265.

    Immanentize

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: Ahhh, the scar — for the Immp’s major gastrectomy, he got a 5″ scar neatly sewed up. For this latest one, they had to open him from gaggle to zatch and no exterior stitching allowed. It was, uh, organic? That was probably the longest part of recovery, wound care. Not painful, just took time. The Docs said he would have a scar worthy of tall tales as he grew older….

  266. 266.

    HinTN

    @HumboldtBlue: I got called Uncle H by my 8 year old first cousin twice removed. I tried explaining all that and he saturated started calling me Aunt H. I let it go right there.

    Edit to correct idiot autocorrect

  269. 269.

    PaulB

    Al Rennick’s former comments:

    mistermix, This post is almost as dumb as your screen name. You’re not fit to shine John Aravosis’ shoes. You’ve reached peak toolishness.

     

    How long will you and every other commenter and front pager keep ignoring the elephant in this room?

    Biden looks and sounds incredibly decrepit and frail.  The notion of re-nominating an 82 year old to serve 4 more years is insane beyond description.

    Joe needs to graciously bow out of seeking a second term and put the national interests ahead of his massive fucking ego.

    Pie him or ignore him please, as it’s clear that he’s either delusional or a troll. Either way, he’s not arguing in good faith and certainly isn’t worth your time.

  272. 272.

    PaulB

    Case in point regarding “not arguing in good faith:”

    Yes, there’s absolutely no chance at all that this brilliant strategy of promoting flat Earth MAGA Republicans in primary races

    Note how he cannot actually point to any Democratic Party ad that “promotes a flat Earth MAGA Republican.” Nor can he identify any part of any Democratic Party ad that is in any way positive towards any Republican candidate.

  273. 273.

    topclimber

    @Al Rennick: Perhaps if you had not disparaged everyone in sight, you could have made the argument that at some point we need to have a sane second party. Ratfucking sane GOP candidates in their primaries might not help that happen.

    On the other hand, we are not yet at the point where that much matters. The crazy crowd must first be brought down hard for a few election cycles. So if a particular race looks like one that would benefit from the Dem having a loony tunes opponent, I say we help that happen. But the risk is that the crazy guy wins.

    The again, maybe there can be no sane second party. It would require that white supremacists would not be a key component of whatever becomes the party of business, neocons and conservative Christians. Maybe we are more likely to see a second party emerge on the left?

    In the meantime, Kinzinger and Meijer might consider finding a home with Andrew Yang and Evan McMullen in the Forward Party.

  276. 276.

    Feathers

    I find this propping up Republicans rhetoric so annoying. Part of the issue Dems have had all along is that Republicans go rabid in the primary and then try to pivot in the general election. Running some ads pointing out how insane their positions are, while they are running on these positions and can’t back down because they need these voters for the  primary is smart. Also, local Dems may not be following the Republicans who are running. Reminding them that these people are terrible, so even if you don’t show up for the primary, we’ll need your vote in November is also smart.

    I find the “I must be smarter than anybody stupid and corrupt  enough to do politics for a living” crowd horrible. One consequence of the Ana Mardoll/Lockheed debacle of the weekend has been discovering that a fair number of online leftists actually work for defense contractors.

  278. 278.

    Ohio Mom

    @CliosFanBoy:
    Social Security Disability (SSDI) is hard to get but not always impossible. You have to have worked/paid into the system for 40 quarters/ten years, did your cousin do that?

    I will give you the contact information for the Social Security consultant Ohio Family has worked with. She specializes in families like mine who have a child with a disability, which is a completely different program (with different requirements and benefit levels) than disability for workers who can no longer work.

    But because this consultant retired after 30 years working at Social Security, she will be able to give you advice regarding the likelihood of your cousin qualifying. She does charge but I think she will talk to you in general terms for free to start off. Her name is Debi Schwartz: http://getssahelp.com/

    The main reason I am giving you this contact is because this is something your cousin has indicated she is interested in. If I had my druthers, I’d cart her off to a doctor for her depression first. But you have to meet people where they are.

  279. 279.

    Feathers

    @CliosFanBoy: Sorry to be late, but an observation from my own life. If there is this much dysfunction and inability to take action there is probably some ADHD or other neurodivergence at the root of the depression. There’s a new paradigm emerging that for ND people, “normal” can’t be the goal. Living within one’s capabilities and getting support for when the necessary is beyond one’s capabilities is what is needed.

    I took a course on ADHD and one thing the professor said that the tragedy of ADHD in the US is that its symptoms are seen as moral failings. Which they are absolutely not. Beyond that ADHD and autistic folks are absolutely screwed by the US (and UK) disability and welfare systems, which work to divide people into the deserving and undeserving poor. And when you have a disorder whose symptoms are seen as proof of moral failings, you get the situation your family is in.

    This is getting long, but Google RSD, rejection sensitivity disorder, not a diagnostic category, but being recognized as an issue for ADHD and autism people, where the constant social rejection finally causes a shutdown and interactions which may seem benign to others are deeply and sharply painful.

  280. 280.

    Ohio Mom

    “…for ND people, “normal” can’t be the goal. Living within one’s capabilities and getting support for when the necessary is beyond one’s capabilities is what is needed.”

    Very well said. I’m going to save that wording for further reference.

  281. 281.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @dmsilev: Exactly.  If the Rep is an R, it’s a vote for McCarthy.  Fuckem.  Vote for a Dem.

  284. 284.

    SFAW

    @Spanky: ​
     
    Nah, Hawley was asserting his manly masculine manliness by voting against the cheese-eating lutefisk-eating surrender monkeys, because something something mumble something.

Comments are closed.