Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Books are my comfort food!

The words do not have to be perfect.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Second rate reporter says what?

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The Wheel Turns

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The Wheel Turns

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And the worm turns…

Rubbing it in:

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254Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    The Democrats

    @TheDemocrats

    This is the choice on the ballot.

    And I’m still seeing people complain that Dems aren’t messaging on abortion.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    Reposted from the thread below. Fits better here.

     

    Everyone everywhere seems to be thanking Jon Stewart for the burn out bills, and it’s deserved.  But since this is BJ, let’s give a shout out to Biden and congressional Dems

  3. 3.

    Betty Cracker

    From ESPN:

    Tiger Woods turned down an offer between $700 million and $800 million to join the LIV Golf Invitational Series, LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman confirmed in an interview that aired Monday night.

    Good for him. And fuck Norman, who was complaining about it on the Tucker Carlson White Power Hour.

  7. 7.

    satby

    @Baud: It took all three. But Stewart’s obvious, emotional passion rebutting the Republican nonsense was effective in ways that the Democrats probably couldn’t be. Which is fine. Everyone has a part to play to keep democracy going, and allies can be intemperate and emote in ways that an elected official probably shouldn’t.

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I went to bed last night a septuagenarian. I woke up this morning an octogenarian. This is a situation which strikes me as absurd, ridiculous, ludicrous, and utterly preposterous. EIGHTY!!

    Anyhow:

    NOW THAT YOU’RE EIGHTY

    If you could change one romance in your past, is there anyone you would have hooked up with, now that you’re eighty?
    Warren Beatty.

    Is there somewhere in the world you’d like to have visited, now that you’re eighty?
    Haiti.

    I expect you have figured out the secret of life. What’s your opinion of my question, now that you’re eighty?
    Ooh, weighty.

    Finally, do you regret any decisions you’ve made in your life, now that you’re eighty?
    None of them, Katie.

    Also, a very happy birthday to beloved commenter Omnes Omnibus, with whom I am annually proud to share this day!!

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

    Also thanks to the GOP for being such lowlife muthaphuckas that they high-fived after taking away healthcare for sick veterans. Without that visual, they wouldn’t have backed down.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    @satby:

    Everyone has a part to play to keep democracy going, and allies can be intemperate and emote in ways that an elected official probably shouldn’t.

     

    QFT.

  19. 19.

    Jeffro

    The majority is speaking up, finally, about restoring reproductive rights across this country.

    Now let’s hear from the even bigger majority who appreciate their kids’ and grandkids’ local public schools…before it’s too late:

    The teacher shortage in America has hit crisis levels — and school officials everywhere are scrambling to ensure that, as students return to classrooms, someone will be there to educate them.

    “I have never seen it this bad,” Dan Domenech, executive director of the School Superintendents Association, said of the teacher shortage. “Right now it’s number one on the list of issues that are concerning school districts … necessity is the mother of invention, and hard-pressed districts are going to have to come up with some solutions.”

    It is hard to know exactly how many U.S. classrooms are short of teachers for the 2022-2023 school year; no national database precisely tracks the issue. But state- and district-level reports have emerged across the country detailing staffing gaps that stretch from the hundreds to the thousands — and remain wide open as summer winds rapidly to a close…

    Why are America’s schools so short-staffed? Experts point to a confluence of factors including pandemic-induced teacher exhaustion, low pay and some educators’ sense that politicians and parents — and sometimes their own school board members — have little respect for their profession amid an escalating educational culture war that has seen many districts and states pass policies and laws restricting what teachers can say about U.S. history, race, racism, gender and sexual orientation, as well as LGBTQ issues.

    “The political situation in the United States, combined with legitimate aftereffects of covid, has created this shortage,” said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers

    The number of teachers and administrators that I know who are flat-out leaving the field entirely is astounding.  Many companies are eager to hire these folks (at significant pay raises and sane working conditions) and they are talking to their friends who are still in the schools.

    Public school parents really need to step it up and:

    1. tell their legislators and governors to find the funds for really big pay raises, retention bonuses, moving allowances, and more.
    2. get organized and tell the loud, Rufo-loving crazies to sit down and shut up.
  21. 21.

    Ken

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I saw a tweet claiming the number of votes on the KS abortion amendment was larger than the two governor primaries combined.

    Now some group will claim fraud, and demand to go through the ballots and set aside the obviously-fraudulent votes (i.e. the Democratic primary ballots, and any R ballots that voted to keep abortion rights), so the measure passes.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    Happy birthday to Omnes too.  He’s probably aged out of a Supreme Court appointment in the Baud! administration, much to his relief.

  26. 26.

    Immanentize

    My question on the abortion issue in Kansas:

    Does this suggest, like legalization of marijuana, the protecting abortion rights is a ballot initiative that can inspire Democratic/independent voters, even in swing states to turn out? If so, should it be a strategy in 2024 in other states?

  29. 29.

    Immanentize

    @Ken: Totally self-inflicted wound by the forced birthers. Ha! They really live in a bubble in which all agree with them.

  31. 31.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jeffro: I read that article this morning. What a shit-show. Republicans who stirred up fanatics to disrupt schools (first over masks, then nonsense like CRT, gay/trans panic, etc.) deserve massive blowback, and I hope they get it, good and hard. 

  33. 33.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: ​that can inspire Democratic/independent voters, even in swing states to turn out?

    I don’t know about that but we should still put it on every ballot we can.

  34. 34.

    Ken

    @OzarkHillbilly: Someone said earlier that the Republicans put this on a primary ballot because unaffiliated voters can’t vote in those. Is that not the case?

    In Illinois primaries, you can get a “non-partisan” ballot for primary elections.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ken: In Illinois primaries, you can get a “non-partisan” ballot for primary elections.

    It’s the same here in Misery and from what I’ve read the same in KS. The abortion amendment was a non partisan issue. I read the same blurb you did and it gave the wrong impression:

    Remember that Republicans scheduled the Kansas abortion referendum for the primary rather than the general election because there are many more registered Republicans in the state than Democrats and unaffiliateds can’t vote in primary races. Abortion rights still won handily

    No they can’t vote in primary races but that just explains why so many unaffiliateds don’t bother to vote during primaries.

  38. 38.

    Immanentize

    @Ken: in some states, unaffiliated voters cannot vote in primaries (so-called “closed” primaries). But such voters can vote on any non-political primary issue, like a referendum. The play by the Republicans was that if voters thought they couldn’t vote for everything, they would stay home.

    This is why the referendum vote numbers exceed the primary vote numbers combined.

    Or, what Ozark said!

  40. 40.

    sdhays

    @Ken: I think the idea is that unaffiliated voters can’t vote in the primaries, so under normal circumstances this vote wouldn’t have had anything to do with them. But they of course can vote on a Constitutional amendment, and they turned out exclusively to vote that down.

    Kansas Republicans didn’t expect that.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    Across the U.S., more than 2,500 crisis pregnancy centers (CPCs) provide free services and counseling for women struggling with unplanned pregnancies. They outnumber abortion clinics 3 to 1 nationwide, and as some states shutter clinics after Roe’s reversal, that ratio will grow.
    But when two NBC News producers visited state-funded CPCs in Texas to ask for counseling, counselors told them that abortions caused mental illness and implied abortions could also cause cancer and infertility.

    These are growing fast in Texas. Hundreds of millions in public funding flowing to fundamentalist religious groups to indoctrinate and brainwash women and provide fake, low quality, substandard “medical care” and diapers but ony if they take madatory Bible classes. It’s a fundamentalist Christian employment program and it’s unregulated, has no oversight and is overtly partisan Republican. That’s what Texans are paying for instead of real professional and dignified health care for women. This low quality, dangerous junk is what women get because that’s all they are worth in the “pro life” movement. A baby production vessel. They’ve set women back a hundred years and it will ripple culturally- it already has. They’re now defending the rape of 13 year olds as perhaps consensual. Backwards. The US will be an outlier on womens rights- archaic and backward. I expect them to roll back marriage age laws. They’ll just marry off the 13 year old. They already essentially do in a lot of these sects.
    Horrifying. I hope women finally get it, before it’s too late. That career and education and free life you wanted and had before these peope came to power? They can’t allow that. They’ll be so far up your ass and in your business you won’t be able to move. They’re already peering over yur shoulder at the physician’s office. How far can it go? FAR.

  43. 43.

    Ken

    @OzarkHillbilly: Ah, OK, I misread that. So I’ll amend my earlier post: the fraudulent ballots can be recognized by the (D), or by the “no” vote on an (R) or unaffiliated ballot.

    And I’m sure after this defeat, the good people of the Kansas Republican party are looking for ways to keep unaffiliated voters out of elections.

  44. 44.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Immanentize: I think so.

    Abortion rights was an electoral loser for Democrats for a long time because, even though a majority favored protecting them, there was an intensity difference: Roe meant that Democratic voters didn’t see it as high-stakes (however erroneously), but there was a fanatical Republican constituency that could be relied on to turn out to oppose abortion. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    Klobacher was on MJ this morning and expressed confidence Sinema would sign on to the Schumer-Manchin deal and said Schumer was talking to her.  FWIW. Could easily be spin.  We’ll find out this week.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    The other problem with the GOP is that they put so much effort into branding themselves as pro-FREEDOM! We all knew that it was a lie, but they way the acting like kids in a candy shop of oppression as soon as the Supreme Court gave them to the ok must have sent some normies heads spinning.

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    I saw something that suggested that a decent % of KS voters turned out JUST to vote on the abortion question.  Dobbs is going to bring folks to the polls in November, no doubt about it.

    Meanwhile, in Virginia, Governor Fleece Vest wants to revisit his proposed (and failed) gas tax cut, because he “wants people to think of (VA) Senate Democrats when they fill up at the pump”.  That’s all ya got, Gov?

    Inflation slowing, gas prices dropping, Dobbs hovering over everything…what’s the GQP to do??  Is it possible for Hunter Biden’s laptop to lead a CARAVAN!!1! to the border or something?

  54. 54.

    Ken

    @Jeffro: Is it possible for Hunter Biden’s laptop to lead a CARAVAN!!1! to the border or something?

    In the real world, no. But on Fox, sure.  They’ll even work in teachers indoctrinating kindergarteners with CRT

    (Which is silly — in my experience, kids of that age are very good at spotting things that are unfair, and don’t care one whit about the gender, race, or age of those involved. It takes years of training to change that. I think South Pacific has a song about that…)

  55. 55.

    Geminid

    There still are “fiscally conservative, socially liberal” voters, and many of them are Independents. That may account for Republican governors winning blues states like Maryland, Massachestts, and Vermont..

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Immanentize: Many, many Americans honestly did not believe that conservatives would overturn Roe the moment they got the chance, even though they openly said they were going to 24/7 in every forum other than Supreme Court nomination hearings.

    The idea that abortion rights were safe, so it was safe to torpedo Democratic candidates in general elections to punish them for not being progressive enough, was key to left third-party and anti-electoralist movements. These were always marginal but they got their main support among the age demographics who ought to care about these things the most. Now they’ve switched to saying we should punish Democrats for not stopping this, but I don’t think many are buying it.

  59. 59.

    Geminid

    @Baud: David Dayan wrote in The American Prospect that the carried interest taxation provision in the bill did not account for much revenue and that it might be sacrificed to placate Ms. Sinema.

  61. 61.

    JAFD

    Happy birthday to my fellow Leos.  Unfortunately, we’re not ‘in our prime’ anymore. ;-)

  62. 62.

    Josie

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
      Happy birthday to you (and Omnes). You are not alone. I’m not far behind you.
    ETA: I have decided that in my last year before 80, I will become the strongest 80 year old woman ever – mentally and physically. What else do I have to do at this point?

  63. 63.

    jonas

    I woke up happy to see the outcome of the Kansas vote. Does anyone know whether the abortion measure failed due to a broad swathe of the electorate voting against it (which would be majority Republican) or did we just see phenomenal turnout in the state’s few heavily-D districts? If it was the former, that’s a pretty stunning rout for the anti-choice movement among its own base.

  64. 64.

    jonas

    @Geminid:  might be sacrificed to placate Ms. Sinema.

    She’s threatened to blow the whole thing up so a few *billionaires* don’t have to pay higher taxes? How many hedge funds are headquartered in Arizona? I can’t even wrap my head around this. Even large majorities of Republicans (voters, that is, not their well-bribed representatives) want to see the CI loophole go.

  65. 65.

    delphinium

    @Kay: These fundamentalist “Christians” are such anti-life, misogynistic, ghouls. It is beyond rage-inducing that these centers can lie to and manipulate women and children, potentially putting their life in danger, without facing repercussions.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    @jonas:

    She sucks, but are we going to blow it up because of the CI loophole?  The most important parts of the bill are the ones that deal with climate and the parts that help people, like the ACA subsidies. Until we get more Senators (while keeping the House), we need her vote just like we needed Manchin.

  67. 67.

    Geminid

    @jonas: Well, she hasn’t threatened to blow anything up yet. Dayan seemed suggest that the carried interest provision may have been included as a bone to throw to Sinema. As he pointed  out, it did not account for very much revenue.

  68. 68.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: She (and Manchin + all Republicans) have been remarkably successful in keeping most of Trump’s massive corporate tax cuts in place — contrary to the wishes of the rest of the party and the majority of voters. She should vote for this damn bill and take a victory lap. It might be her last.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    I agree she should.  I’m just saying we have no effective way of forcing her to do anything.  We have brinkmanship, but the downside if that fails is massive.  Depending on the scope of what she’s asking for, I wouldn’t pull that trigger yet.

  73. 73.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Josie:

    I have decided that in my last year before 80, I will become the strongest 80 year old woman ever – mentally and physically.

    What a great idea! Wish I’d thought of that.
    :-)

    Thanks to everyone for the nice birthday wishes. And I just had a phone call from a florist wanting to make sure I’d be home for a 💐 delivery today. And I should be getting my new (to me) laptop today or tomorrow!

  80. 80.

    bjacques

    Don’t wanna jinx it, but getting Sinema’s vote this week would cap a damn good week for Democrats.

    Meanwhile…

    (apologies if done before)

    EDIT: NYT Pitchbot: Can reasonable men even now find common ground  on abortion limits?

  82. 82.

    The Moar You Know

    Many, many Americans honestly did not believe that conservatives would overturn Roe the moment they got the chance, even though they openly said they were going to 24/7 in every forum other than Supreme Court nomination hearings.

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s not just that they said they would do it, they’ve been saying for FIFTY YEARS that they would do it!   What the hell?  How could this have been a surprise to anyone?

    And yet it was.  I despair of my fellow citizens, often.

  83. 83.

    satby

    @The Moar You Know: The same way so many vets voted for Republicans (but now a few less will); and so many SS dependant retirees vote for Republicans (and probably now less will). Because they never believed they would actually accomplish the things they were promising, it was all just campaign talk. Once it became real, calculations had to change. And though political junkies think that’s crazy, an entire news media pushing both sides, horse race bullshit without any policy outcome reporting until it was too late made that delusion possible.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    @The Moar You Know:

    How could this have been a surprise to anyone?

    It shouldn’t have been, but I have heard many a talking point that overruling Roe was not something the GOP was serious about and they were doing it just to rile up their base and raise money.

  86. 86.

    EriktheRed

    Can anyone tell me who is the “close friend of Trump’s guests” being referenced in that last tweet?

  87. 87.

    Baud

    @satby:

    Mark Udall has been dubbed ‘Mark Uterus’ on the campaign trail. That’s a problem.

    Colorado Democratic Sen. Mark Udall has talked about contraception and abortion more than just about any other 2014 candidate. Roughly half of his ads are about women’s issues.  The focus has been so intense that Udall has been nicknamed “Mark Uterus,” with local reporter Lynn Bartels of the Denver Post joking that if the race were a movie, it would be set in a gynecologist’s office. In a debate between Udall and Rep. Cory Gardner last week, Bartels, who moderated, used the moniker to describe him.

    For all of that focus — and the insistence from Democrats that Gardner’s record on women’s issues was the key to Udall’s reelection — the incumbent has watched the race slipping from his grasp in recent weeks, an erosion that many strategists believe speaks to the limits of the  “war on women” strategy.

    Sure, the “war on women” approach paid huge dividends in 2012, but it worked partly (largely?) because GOP candidates made insensitive and tone-deaf comments about rape and abortion.  But if you look at this chart detailing issues of importance to voters heading into the Nov. 4 election, abortion and birth control just aren’t hot-button issues. At all. Voters view those issues with about as much urgency as climate change, which is to say with not much urgency at all.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @The Moar You Know: You got me. It always struck me as mysterious.

    I mean, it did take them a long long time to manage to do it (though there was a lot of gradual erosion leading up to that), so a short-term outlook could be enough.

  89. 89.

    The Moar You Know

    Can anyone tell me who is the “close friend of Trump’s guests” being referenced in that last tweet?

    @EriktheRed: al-Zawahiri.  Good friend of the Saudi royal family.  Now sprayed all over part of downtown Kabul.

  90. 90.

    sdhays

    @Ken: I really wonder if they’re going to keep going hard after teachers the closer we get to the election and the teacher shortage, particularly in places like Florida, gets a lot of coverage. They might want to distract from education altogether, since that looming disaster has the real potential to make their favorite nasty governor a one-termer.

  91. 91.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: That’s the Cult of the Savvy, always insisting that a thing is the opposite of what it plainly appears to be, because if you can perceive that it makes you very clever.

  93. 93.

    PST

    @SiubhanDuinne: Also happy birthday to you and OO and everyone else getting promoted today. I’ve been thinking about aging lately and it has led to a decision to join a gym. You hear all the time that resistance training is good, but the claimed benefit was never concrete enough to get me past my laziness and inertia. I didn’t care about big muscles. But I realize now, as I approach 70, that the reason to go beyond aerobic exercise is so I can be the most kick-ass 85-year-old possible. Orthopedic injury can be a terrible set-back then. My back, my joints, my balance, my risk of injury can all be improved by strengthening my core, my ankles, etc. I want to make that my guiding principle: no exercises that will wear out joints, only exercises that help them. I look around me and see that one’s 70s tend often to be a great time of life (this can depend very much on prosperity) but it can take a lot of effort as well as luck to keep that going later. Not trying to be a bummer, of course, but getting ready for my 80s has been on my mind the the birthday comments triggered me.

  95. 95.

    Geminid

    @The Moar You Know: It was Al Zawahiri, but the “guests” referenced are more likely the Taliban that trump wanted to host at Camp David, and Mike Pompeo met with in Qatar. Al Zawahri was killed on the balcony of a house owned by a senior member of the Haqqani network, a key partner in the Taliban government.

    The reference might have been to the Saudis, but I’m not sure it’s applicable. Al Zawahiri was hostile to the conservative Gulf States’ leadership.

  96. 96.

    Geminid

    @PST: Tai chi can be a good form of exercise, and might improve balance and footwork in a way that could prevent future orthopedic injuries.

    And if you really apply yourself to this martial art you can send people flying with what looks like a gentle push! If you have a partner, you two can go dancing chi to chi.

  97. 97.

    Edmund Dantes

    @satby: well it was all part of the whole “we presented people with the GOP’s actual policy positions and people didn’t believe anyone could be that cruel”. Now they are no longer policy positions but actual laws and those people are finally realizing denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    but the “guests” referenced are more likely the Taliban that trump wanted to host at Camp David,

    Amazing how that’s been memory-holed, but that hole is so crowded I guess it’s easy to lose track of the individual items in there

  99. 99.

    Edmund Dantes

    @EriktheRed: the Al Qaeda leader killed. As in Saudi Arabia (LIV Golf owners) sent a lot of money to Al Qaeda through the years and thus friends with the people that executed 9/11.

  100. 100.

    Feathers

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s a reverse conspiracy theory world isn’t it? People are saying terrible things out loud, so it must mean they don’t actually believe it.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Happy birthday! I went through a strong Warren Beatty phase. Even had his phone number for a while. Never called it. I had a summer internship on Capitol Hill and it was in my boss’s Rolodex. Robert Redford had stopped by the day before I started. Sigh. Maybe a rewatch of Reds tonight.

  101. 101.

    stacib

    @Jeffro: My granddaughter was in first grade last year.  During that one year, four different teachers quit and the vice principal ended up finishing out the year.

  102. 102.

    Ken

    @Edmund Dantes: As in Saudi Arabia (LIV Golf owners) sent a lot of money to Al Qaeda through the years and thus friends with the people that executed 9/11.

    I thought we didn’t have any idea who was behind 9/11?  At least, I heard that quite recently, from a source that received Presidential Daily Briefings for four years and would surely know.

  105. 105.

    Feathers

    @PST: I’ve been doing this guy’s workout: Hybrid Calisthenics. It’s body weight exercises that actually start gently enough for non fit people to do. His mother died of a stroke and he realized she didn’t do the assigned exercises because she couldn’t – they were above her fitness level. So he started this  program where everything has progressions up and down. Push-ups start at wall pushes and go to very fancy advanced one arm push-ups.
    It’s been doable for me and highly recommend it. He’s also a total sweetie of a guy.
    Link: https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/

  106. 106.

    eclare

    @PST:   My eighty-something healthy and vibrant aunt teaches Silver Sneakers Tai Chi.  She is a firm believer in it.  She also lives in a two story house where her bedroom is on the second floor, so she has to stay fit.

  108. 108.

    J R in WV

    @EriktheRed:

    …who is the “close friend of Trump’s guests” being referenced in that last tweet?

    Mohammed Bone Saw, putative ruler of Saudi Arabia. And his front man, just killed in Kabul, Afghanistan, al–Zawahiri.

  109. 109.

    Matt McIrvin

    @sdhays: They really want to kill public education through the standard privatization death spiral: starve and hobble public services so that they are shitty, and then get people to punish them and eventually replace them because they are shitty. It works to some degree because the funding of these systems tends to depend on enrollment and parents rationally don’t want their kids to be in a hobbled public system if they can afford to get them out.

    I think the one thing that might prevent it from working 100% is that most people are actually sympathetic to teachers in an abstract emotional sense–the people who aren’t tend to be people who don’t have school-age children and are bothered that they still have to fund education.

  110. 110.

    p.a.

    @Geminid:

    That’s my take also.  I remember aQ as gladly taking Saudi $$$ but being hostile to the ruling family and its lifestyle and connections to the West, at least.

  113. 113.

    lowtechcyclist

    Happy 80th birthday to SiubhanDuinne from this 68 year old kid, and happy birthday to Omnes as well!

    @JAFD:

    Unfortunately, we’re not ‘in our prime’ anymore. ;-)

    Speak for yourself!  SiubhanDuinne will be in her prime in another three years (83 is a prime).  For all I know, Omnes might be in his prime right now.  (Is your age a prime? If you’re younger than 121 and your age isn’t divisible by 2, 3, 5, or 7, then it’s a prime.)

  114. 114.

    sdhays

    @satby: Our political system also has a ridiculous number of veto points, some built in, some by choice (like the filibuster), so a lot of the time, nothing seems to happen.

  116. 116.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Matt McIrvin: I think the one thing that might prevent it from working 100% is that most people are actually sympathetic to teachers in an abstract emotional sense

    The real thing that keeps it from working is the logistical impossibility of it all.  87% of school-age children attend public schools.  There just isn’t anywhere else for them to go.

    You could double the number and capacity of private schools, and you could double the number of parents home-schooling their kids, and you’d still have three out of every four school-age kids attending public schools.

    Would be interesting to see which states have the most and least severe teacher shortages.

  118. 118.

    oatler

    The AZ election is over and the winner was the one who loved T the most and America the least.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Ken:

     kids of that age are very good at spotting things that are unfair

    So true. I love how they talk about it, too. It’s a code- rules. There are mitigating and aggravating factors “he said it but his father just died” – she said it and it’s worse because it’s the second offense. Proportional force! “He’s bigger so it’s unfair”. They’re the fairness police.

  121. 121.

    Matt McIrvin

    @lowtechcyclist:

    The real thing that keeps it from working is the logistical impossibility of it all.  87% of school-age children attend public schools.  There just isn’t anywhere else for them to go.

    I’d expect the intended endpoint to be the privatization of the existing public schools, and perhaps a takeover by religion-affiliated entities something like the Catholic hospital system.

  123. 123.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud & @Matt McIrvin: At the risk of outing myself as a savvy cultist, I will say I think there’s some truth to the notion that the establishment GOP doesn’t really give a shit about abortion. There are definitely true believers, but Republicans like McConnell, Graham, McCarthy, the Bushes, etc., and most big donors and activist organizations like FedSoc, Koch Industries, et al., use culture war issues to rile the rubes and gain power, which they need to deregulate businesses and shield the wealthy from taxes.  

    Of course, their motivations are immaterial to a woman who’s going septic due to an incomplete miscarriage. But the decades-long fight to reverse our rights is built on fanaticism AND cynicism, IMO.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    1h
    “Nearly three quarters agree that, despite promising to be an independent voice, Kelly has been in lockstep with Biden’s policies and agenda. Furthermore, a clear majority of Arizonans expected to get someone much more moderate than what Kelly has turned out to be…”

    Haberman should just come out and identify as a conservative. Her entire Twitter feed is like this- it’s all promoting Republicans. It gets worse and worse. I hate that she’s billed on cable as some kind of independent analyst- I haven’t watched but it’s in her bio. It’s dishonest.
    The NYTimes political team is a disgrace. The rest of the paper should be embarrassed.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    They’re depending more and more on the religious Right to win in places like Ohio. That’s what Vance is doing- he’s trying to get that group. They backed Mandel. It may work. It worked when Bush did it in 04 by bashing gay people – just gross. You know, Kasich won two terms in Ohio. They didn’t used to have to bring out every religious fundamentalist to win. They do now. DeWine is now far, far Right. He was a moderate. They can’t win without the extremists.

  128. 128.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Investigation debunks bogus ‘audit’ claiming 300 dead people voted in Arizona in 2020

    “After spending hundreds of hours reviewing these allegations, our investigators were able to determine that only one of the 282 individuals on the list was deceased at the time of the election. All other persons listed as deceased were found to be current voters,” Arizona’s attorney general, Mark Brnovich, a Republican, wrote in a letter on Monday to state senate president, Karen Fann, who authorized the review.

    Brnovich added: “Our agents investigated all individuals that Cyber Ninjas reported as dead, and many were very surprised to learn they were allegedly deceased.”
    …………………………….
    Officials also investigated reports of dead voters from “other sources”, alleging 409 dead voters and another report flagging nearly 6,000 registrations as potentially deceased.

    “These claims were thoroughly investigated and resulted in only a handful of potential cases. Some were so absurd the names and birthdates didn’t even match the deceased, and others included dates of death after the election,” he wrote. “While our office has successfully prosecuted other instances of dead voters, these cases were ultimately determined to be isolated instances.”

    “We supported the Arizona Senate’s ability to conduct an audit of Maricopa county’s elections and understand the importance of reviewing the results. However, allegations of widespread deceased voters from the Senate Audit and other complaints received by the [Election Integrity Unit] are insufficient and not corroborated,” the letter ends.

    The Deep State strikes back!

  129. 129.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:   Agreed. I would be fine if someone dropped a missile on Haberman, Peter Baker, Jeremy Peters and all the other Republican whisperers.  They do so much damage, dishonestly.

    The FTF NY Times political team is appalling.  Because so are their owners, I guess.

    Fuck ’em.

  130. 130.

    jonas

    @Baud: ​  No, I’m not saying that the CI loophole is a hill to die on, just observing that, wow, she sucks. And for no discernible reason. I could see a senator from NJ, NY, or CT balking at taking on the hedge fund Olympians, but AZ? Weird.​

  131. 131.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    She’s constantly tweeting about how powerful Trump is. She should get the book out before he loses steam.

    The books ruined them. They’re not political reporters. They’re some kind of weird “recent history” people. How is this useful to anyone? We all lived thru the last 6 years. They could hire any of us to comment. Dave Weigel is the only national POLITICAL reporter. There’s ONE :)

  133. 133.

    Lapassionara

    @SiubhanDuinne: Happy birthday! I will join this club at the end of September. I would like the 8th decade of my life to be full of meaning and purpose, but right now it is full of tedium and failing body parts.

  136. 136.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:   She first worked at the New York Post, didn’t she?

    It shows.  The FTF NY Times is kind of the Kyrsten Sinema of major dailies.  They have no respect for their readers/subscribers.  It shows.  You are just not a good paper if the most popular reader comments are more informative and honest than your vaunted reporting.

    I really do wonder about their subscription numbers being up.  To who?  I wonder about their financing.  I really do.

  137. 137.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: what kind of poll asks two questions in one polling question?:
    1) Kelly “promis[ed] to be an independent voice,” AND
    2) “Kelly has been in lockstep with Biden’s policies and agenda.”

    I refuse to take the time to run that crap down, but I call double dog bullshit

  138. 138.

    Geminid

    @jonas: Sinema is weird. I know that people attribute her actions to a desire to serve the wealthy and corporations, and that may be true. I also think she may be conditioned by winning office first in a purple House district and then a red state. But a jackal who saw Sinema’s career at first hand has an explaination of her that sounds true: Sinema is a social climber.

  139. 139.

    Nicole

    @SiubhanDuinne: Happy birthday and congrats on reaching your ninth decade on this good earth! (I did the math correct, yes? Eighty= start of ninth decade?)  Wishing you many more years and many more comments on this fine site.

  143. 143.

    Central Planning

    @Elizabelle: Just to be pedantic (THAT should be a rotating tag), the new decade will start at 81.

    @PST: Get a rowing machine. It’s low impact and a full-body workout. Or use one at a gym. Just make sure you get a lesson on proper technique so you don’t hurt yourself. My FIL is 91 and rows 5k/day. And if you want to join a cult, join your local on-the-water rowing club.

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    @jonas: Republicans in many areas are in a bind now: they can’t win without the radicals, but they can’t win with them either.

    But Republican elites welcomed the radicals and bible thumpers into the party with the idea that they could be harnessed to the elites’ purposes, so they have no one to blame but themselves.

  145. 145.

    Miss Bianca

    @The Moar You Know:

    It’s not just that they said they would do it, they’ve been saying for FIFTY YEARS that they would do it!   What the hell?  How could this have been a surprise to anyone?

    This has always blown my mind, as well. That people just honestly did not – or would not – see what was so incredibly obvious.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @Central Planning: Disagree — our age is not like a decade. Every age year represents one year lived — so 1 y.o means you have already lived one year. 80 y.o. means you have already lived 80 years. so, your 80th year, is actually your 81st on the planet. Therefore, hocus pocus, presto chango, the beginning of your 9th decade (as long as decades are still 10 years long)

    Contra Abbey Road cover: “28 IF”

  149. 149.

    C Stars

    @Geminid: My mother (who lives in AZ) has a theory that is popular among herself and her friends, which is that Sinema grew up dirt poor, really really poor, and now is simply helpless to resist the money that is being thrown her way by bad actors. I hate to criticize a fellow woman in this way, but it kind of looks like she spends more time shopping for clothes than thinking about what’s best for her constituents.

  151. 151.

    Central Planning

    @Immanentize: I understand what you’re saying, and the non-pedantic part of me agrees. Strangely, the CompSci part of me agrees too because you’re starting counting at 0.

    The pedantic part of me is just doing its job.

  152. 152.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Sinema is a mystery in that she’s done remarkable things like reinventing herself as a politician and winning a U.S. Senate seat, which makes me suspect she’s no dummy. But then she does things that seem colossally dumb, like making herself odious to her own state party, to the point where she’ll probably get bounced in the primary. I don’t get it.

  153. 153.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @C Stars: Josh Marshall said that people who know her (so, “sources close to”, FWIW) say she genuinely believes she has a chance at the presidency, and lots of people say (so again, FWIW) that she really thinks she can follow McCain as a model. Hard to believe a grown-ass woman and professional politician, who must have some talent and brains and whatever to have won that seat, could really miss the whole “POW/War hero” thing, to say nothing of McCain’s ability, and eagerness, to win over the media

  157. 157.

    Nicole

    @Immanentize: I have decided to single-handedly start an anti-anti-ageism campaign, where the older, the COOLER.  We’ll even give out a yearly award, which we’ll call the Betty White Memorial.

  158. 158.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Great point about the importance of media relations in the McCain model. In fact, that was the McCain model. Remember the tire-swing days? And when McCain called the press his base?

  159. 159.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Marshall thread on “terrible person” Sinema

    There’s another equally important thing to understand about Sinema. In 20 yrs she went …

    6/ from a freak show Green party activist to the first Democratic senator elected in Arizona for two generations. That is a huge,huge feat. Hate her but don’t take that away from her. You simply don’t manage to pull that off and be planning to end your career after a single term.

    7/ It’s simply not in the DNA. The money ain’t THAT big and there are better ways to make it. I don’t put myself forward as an expert on Sinema. But over a few years I have talked to A LOT of people who have known her well over the years. I’ve yet to talk to a single one …

    8/ who thinks her antics are part of a plan to land a cush lobbying job. Most of them think she sees herself as presidential material. Yeah, she sucks. But people don’t manage that kind of trajectory if the goal is money. It’s ego.

  162. 162.

    trollhattan

    @Betty Cracker:

    In my slog through “Reaganland” I recently got to the bit where Reagan, in the 1980 campaign, promises some prominent fundy that he will only appoint anti-abortion judges. And that issue was not anywhere on the Republican RADAR, but Reagan was busy lassoing the whacko faction into the party who; in turn, were hosting gleeful pro-Reagan events.

    Yay.

  164. 164.

    Mike E

    @Feathers:

    @Elizabelle:

    I will 2nd the rec for hybrid calisthenics, I’m doing Hampton’s (modified) body weight workouts and cardio on my bike(s). The trick is doing what you can, for however many reps and sets you can safely manage. Having home workouts with limited equipment (bike stand, broom handle) keeps me getting after it while shielding me from exposure to covid, which is never seemingly going to disappear. Sadly.

  166. 166.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Betty Cracker: The Bushes prior to George W.’s generation were literally active in Planned Parenthood, so it was clearly a calculated move there. But I think there’s something going on like the cult dynamic where the founding generation are in on the grift, but eventually, a younger generation of true believers takes over and usually fucks it up.

  167. 167.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Matt McIrvin: also the Romneys, from George to Willard to Ronna notRomney

    I think there was some talk of one of the Mittlets testing the waters in MA or UT a few years back, but it’s been a while

  169. 169.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    But I think there’s something going on like the cult dynamic where the founding generation are in on the grift, but eventually, a younger generation of true believers takes over and usually fucks it up.

     
    Agreed.

  172. 172.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    And I will be a square!

    My cousin’s guest on his open line radio show this morning was the former police chief of Aurora, Illinois. She wished me a happy birthday, which was awfully kind, considering she’d never hard of me until 30 seconds earlier :-)

  174. 174.

    Nicole

    @Immanentize: Well, I can’t very well call it the commemorative.  But no shame in a 99-year run.  And an internet meme to the very end (and likely beyond)!  We should all be so lucky.

  175. 175.

    Immanentize

    And, speaking of pro-Republican Maggie:

    Haberman got flagged by Twitter for her context-free tweet of the president. She is a journalist at a newspaper of record where she has a responsibility to inform & not mislead. The word "abortion" is LITERALLY in the headline of Biden's statement here: https://t.co/PauAsQd1ke. pic.twitter.com/L9so91stVn— HawaiiDelilah™ votes DEMOCRATIC BLUE (@HawaiiDelilah) August 3, 2022

    Beat sweetening can be HARD!

  178. 178.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: I want Kay to be an official “Maggie is a grifter” ombudsperson for the NYTimes.

    ETA but that would require a team of dozens.

  180. 180.

    Citizen Alan

    @The Moar You Know:

    To be fair, most people thought that the republicans were just talking tough on abortion but that they would never sacrifice such an important wedge and fundraising point.  They really are the dog that caught the car at this point.

  182. 182.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sinema will land on her feet if she is turned out of office. A Senator has a very high prestige job that can be leveraged into a highly paid, high prestige private sector job. I’ve never seen an ex-Senator who wanted to make good money not make it.

  185. 185.

    Immanentize

    @Citizen Alan: When you say “most people” I think you should put the ever silent “white” in front of that. I don’t think black people — especially BWC were ever fooled. Ask Toni Morrison.

  186. 186.

    Citizen Alan

    @sdhays:  Why would the teacher’s shortage in Florida get any media attention? Nothing else that Deathsantis does it’s santa’s does to that state does.

  187. 187.

    phdesmond

    i didn’t understand this at all:

    Biden literally just murdered a close friend of Trump’s guests, and he did it while they were trying to enjoy a festive tournament at his new tax shelter, no less.

  189. 189.

    Steeplejack

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I think the nutters want their (private, Christian, right-wing) schools to be publicly funded. They don’t care about anyone else. It’s all about “choice.”

  190. 190.

    lowtechcyclist

    @C Stars:

    Off topic but I fucking hate this Max Boot/WaPo headline and all that it stands for. This is the worst of political punditry. When are these people going to realize how tiresome and played out their stupid clickbaity pettiness reads to real people?

    Biden might be the Democrats’ worst possible nominee (except for all the others)

    Me too! The only reason Biden isn’t kicking ass as a potential 2024 nominee is the shit that the MSM has been throwing around ever since Afghanistan.  And even that was a major success; just the first couple days were really screwed up.  But they’ve basically decided to report as if Biden’s not done a thing right since those first days.

  194. 194.

    Old School

    @phdesmond:

    i didn’t understand this at all

    al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri was killed by a drone strike while the Saudi-funded golf tournament was being hosted by Trump at the resort where Ivana was buried (possibly for tax benefits).

  195. 195.

    James E Powell

    @EriktheRed:

    Can anyone tell me who is the “close friend of Trump’s guests” being referenced in that last tweet?

    I think it refers to the Saudi LIV tour at one of Trump’s golf courses.

  197. 197.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @phdesmond:

    Refers to Biden/US taking out Al-Zawahiri, who — like many of TFG’s Saudi guests at his not-the-PGA tournament — was a murderer and a terrorist.

  199. 199.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: I wonder if Sinema drew wrong coclusions from her 2018 Senate win. She was the first Democrat to win an Arizona Senate seat since Dennis DeConcini did in 1988. That’s a real accomplishment. But she was aided by one of the best GOTV forces Democrats have ever had: Donald Trump. Sinema was helped by a lot of the Democratic voters who turned out not because they liked her so much as they hated the Orange Churl. Sinema may have gotten an inflated impression of her own personal political prowess.

  200. 200.

    Another Scott

    @Immanentize: HaHa.

    But seriously, that probably should have happened in discovery, right?  (The discovery that Jones has fought tooth and nail.) IANAL.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  201. 201.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: Also, Arizona, based on a LOT of hard work by Dems had been trending Dem for years. Now, all state wide Federal elections have gone for the Democrats. She just happened to be first. And I think she also got votes because of Gabby Gifford’s getting shot.

  203. 203.

    Ken

    @Steeplejack: the train-wreck Alex Jones defamation trial

    JUDGE: “This is literally unprecedented, but I think I’m going to have to declare a mistrial after defendant’s counsel attacked and strangled defendant in an attempt to get him to shut up…”

    (Just kidding, Jones’ lawyer did not assault him. I also have absolutely no idea whether any lawyer has ever assaulted their client in court, but I would not be surprised to learn there have been many cases.)

  204. 204.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: as I recall, Martha McSally was not a great candidate, either. As I recall she couldn’t decide where to land on trump, at least early in the cycle, and tried to make up for it by running against the media

  205. 205.

    Immanentize

    @Another Scott: you are right — but Jones and his lawyer said there were no such texts or emails.  Ooopsie! Sanctions coming!

    There is one little ethics detail. I don’t know about where the trial is taking place, but when a lawyer is sent something which is privileged (or even sent by mistake) digitally, the lawyer receiving the info. Is generally under an obligation to return it without reviewing or copying. At least that is what the model rule now says.

    But this might be a very different circumstance in which the things mistakenly sent should have been revealed in discovery.

  207. 207.

    Immanentize

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: McSally! I had hoped to almost forgot about her. She was such a wooden candidate. I can think of other words, but they sound sexist in this context (shrill being the nicest). Also, didn’t she lose every other contest before she was appointed when McCain finally gave up his ghost?

  208. 208.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: That is true! And I personally would have preferred her to either Sinema or Kelly. She is still a mensch.

     

    ETA Kelly is great, but I get a bit of the Pa and Ma Ferguson feel about why he won his election — but in reverse!

  209. 209.

    Citizen Alan

    @Immanentize:  That’s kind of my point.  I suspect most black people in America who considered the issue assumed that that republicans were just using abortion as a stalking horse to get racist legislation passed and undermine on civil rights.

  210. 210.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: McSally won two Congressional elections in Gabby Gifford’ purple, Tucson-based House district before she lost to Sinema in 2018.

    McSally’s race with Mark Kelly in 2020 was distinctive in that it featured two former fighter pilots, both from Tucson.

  212. 212.

    Immanentize

    @Citizen Alan: i think people of color believed Republicans in their communities when they said they wanted to ban abortions, birth control, gay marriage, child labor laws, public education, voting AND civil rights. I don’t think they thought it was a cynical stand in, like we think about it maybe. They believed them because they said it.

  214. 214.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Immanentize: saw you havering again yesterday about the alleged farmhouse and have concluded:

    Immanentize=Bernice

    buying farmhouse=bobbing her hair

    Is it ever going to happen?!

  216. 216.

    trollhattan

    @WereBear: Right? The degree and level of malevolence astonishes these many decades later, and the Trump era is just a loud, messy rerun brought by less-competent folks.

  218. 218.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Huh, Bulwark writers, of all people, push back against the idea that Dems betrayed Democracy for not saving Peter Meijer’s ass. Jonathan Last to start with:

    “Meijer has spent the last year-plus running away from impeachment and just kind of hoping that his voters would forget about it” wrote Last. “He took no preemptive action to defend himself against the most salient issue for Republican primary voters. He did not aggressively defend himself. He did not make his affirmative case for impeachment. He simply went into turtle guard and hoped for the best. All while he kept blaming Democrats for the world’s problems.”

    Another comment came from Christian Vanderbrouk also at the Bulwark. The GOP didn’t help defend Meijer.

    “I did not see Kevin McCarthy barnstorming Meijer’s district to give him cover for his impeachment vote. And how much money did McCarthy’s Congressional Leadership Fund PAC spend in defense of Meijer?” asked Last. “No. Meijer was on an island with his impeachment vote and his money, fending for himself.”

  226. 226.

    sdhays

    @Citizen Alan: The thing is, this is the type of thing that parents are going to fully aware of regardless of how hard the media hits them. If right-wing media keep attacking teachers while teachers are just quitting in droves, particularly in Florida where they’re going to “fix” the issue by just shoving people off the street in front of classrooms, those parents might link those two things all on their own,

    I would think it would be better to try to pretend it’s all COVID and nothing to do with the right wingers – parents and especially those in office – making teaching a living hell.

  227. 227.

    RaflW

    BTW I did the math, if we assume (though we shouldn’t, I’d wager a couple percent of Dems voted yes in KS), but if we say that every voter who picked a Dem ballot voted NO, then 257,751 Republican primary voters voted No.

    There were just shy of 451,000 GOP primary votes. So that would mean at a minimum, 57% of Kansas Republican voters were pro-choice! Wow.

  228. 228.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Steeplejack:

    I think the nutters want their (private, Christian, right-wing) schools to be publicly funded.

    I’ve long been intrigued by the notion that their God is so small and helpless that they believe he needs a government handout.

    They don’t care about anyone else.

    No argument there.

  232. 232.

    Steeplejack

    @Feathers:

    Thanks, this site looks interesting. And lately I have been smacked with the realization that in my identity as “former athlete” the key word is former—as in shrinking rapidly in the rear-view mirror.

  233. 233.

    Old School

    @RaflW: No idea of the numbers involved, but there would be independent voters as well who could vote on the constitutional amendment but not in the Democratic or Republican primaries.

  236. 236.

    Jackie

    @RaflW: I’m not surprised at all. It’s one thing to be anti abortion. It’s another thing to be 100% against women’s health care, and support zealots who don’t care about protecting a woman’s life when she’s having a miscarriage and hemorrhaging. Or, expects a child to deliver another child after being raped.

  237. 237.

    James E Powell

    @Immanentize:

    Also, Arizona, based on a LOT of hard work by Dems had been trending Dem for years.

    And here I thought it was liberals fleeing the socialist hellhole of California. Or illegal immigrants drawn into the country by America-hating Democrats.

  243. 243.

    Geminid

    @James E Powell: Independent voters will probably decide those races. I don’t know the numbers now, but in 2020 party registration was 35% R, 32% D, and 31.7% Unaffiliated. And some Republicans may defect. Overall, I like Kelly’s and Hobbs’s chances.

  245. 245.

    PST

    @Geminid: If I could have a couple of dances with Michelle Yeoh I wouldn’t care how badly I got hurt. By the way, loved Everything Everywhere All at Once.

  248. 248.

    PST

    @Central Planning:

    Get a rowing machine. It’s low impact and a full-body workout. Or use one at a gym. Just make sure you get a lesson on proper technique so you don’t hurt yourself. My FIL is 91 and rows 5k/day. And if you want to join a cult, join your local on-the-water rowing club.

    It really is the fullest full body workout there is. My college roommate was a championship rower and was without a doubt the most fit person I ever met. He’s doing ultramarathons in his 60s. But he also has some serious heart arrhythmias, and when a bunch of his old crew buddies came to his wedding a few years ago, half of them do as well. Obviously I’m not worried about that at my age, but there may be something about extreme cardiovascular fitness in youth that might over-condition the heart.

  251. 251.

    Immanentize

    @RaflW: There were also independent voters who voted on the amendment question, but voted in neither primary (because, as I understand, Kansas has closed primaries — which I support).

  252. 252.

    RaflW

    @Matt McIrvin: Worth noting that what you (accurately) describe wits well with the several BJ threads on how Russians fund and support leftists in the US to sow chaos.

  253. 253.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: What I can’t get over is how much these people have to lie about things. If what they were doing was so righteous and great, they wouldn’t have to lie about it would they? The advocates to roll back abortion rights in KS just lied and lied and lied about what they were doing and about what the amendment would do, because they knew that was the only way they could get people to vote for it. Same thing at “crisis pregnancy centers”, they can’t just tell the truth that they want to help you have your baby, no they have to lie about things in order to make women think they will be harmed if they have an abortion. What they want isn’t good enough by itself.

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