Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Let there be snark.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Republicans do not trust women.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

We still have time to mess this up!

“But what about the lurkers?”

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War For Ukraine Day 162: Where Exactly Does Amnesty International Think Ukraine Should Be Defending Itself?

War For Ukraine Day 162: Where Exactly Does Amnesty International Think Ukraine Should Be Defending Itself?

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Earlier today Amnesty International decided to issue a report on Ukraine’s defense of Russia’s re-invasion. The bottom line is that Amnesty International slammed Ukraine for actually fighting the war that has been forced upon them where the war actually is. This, according to Amnesty International means that Ukraine is responsible for putting civilians at risk. Given that Russia has re-invaded Ukraine while still occupying those portions of Ukraine from its 2014 invasion, I’m not really sure where Amnesty International thinks Ukraine should go to defend itself, but, apparently, it is not where the Russian invaders actually are. As you might imagine, Amnesty International’s report did not go over well in Ukraine. Especially with its Ukrainian staff!

  • Ukrainians are defending themselves, Russia is deliberately attacking Ukrainian civilians and leveling cities. The scale of alleged🇺🇦 violations is just incomparable. Equating two sides at the time when interest and support to Ukraine is fading is morally questionable at minimum
  • P.S. It’s not the first blunder by @amnesty re Ukraine. I remember them welcoming the sentencing of a Ukrainian soldier in Italy to 24 yrs in a trial where Ukrainians were accused of attacking civilians. The verdict was overthrown and the page deleted from Amnesty website🤷🏻‍♂️
  • One more thing: often civilians feel better protected when Ukrainian armed forces are nearby. That’s what my relative who refused to leave Donbas tells us. People saw well what Russian did to civilian population if 🇺🇦 forces left and they got to occupy land: see Bucha, Kherson
  • Head of Amnesty Ukraine@OPokalchuk in a Facebook post says Ukrainian office did not participate in drafting this report and their objections to its contents were ignored. She denounces ‘bureaucracy, misunderstanding of local context, inflexibility, disregard of 🇺🇦 team opinion

Here is the English translation of the Ukrainian lead for Amnesty International (h/t: Alison Rose in comments):

The Russian embassy in London wasted no time in latching on to the Amnesty International report, repurposing it for Russian information warfare purposes, and blasting it out.

Here is tonight’s address from President Zelenskyy. Video below, English transcript after the jump (emphasis mine):

Ukrainians!

Today, Russian terrorists once again fired at Toretsk, Donetsk region, hitting public transport stop. Eight people died, three children are among those injured. Residential buildings were damaged by projectile fragments and the blast wave – those are ordinary high-rise buildings. St. Panteleimon Church was also damaged, the priest was wounded.

It was a deliberate strike by the occupiers, another act of terror – cynical and calculated. They knew where they were hitting, and they obviously wanted people to get hurt.

However, we do not see clear and timely reports from some international organizations  regarding this and thousands of other crimes committed by Russian terrorists. We saw today a completely different report from Amnesty International, which unfortunately tries to amnesty the terrorist state and shift the responsibility from the aggressor to the victim.

There cannot be – even hypothetically – any condition under which any Russian attack on Ukraine becomes justified. Aggression against our state is unprovoked, invasive and openly terroristic. And if someone makes a report in which the victim and the aggressor are allegedly the same in something, if some data about the victim is analyzed and what the aggressor was doing at that time is ignored, this cannot be tolerated.

Almost 200 religious buildings alone – temples and prayer houses of various denominations – were damaged or destroyed by Russian strikes. Almost 900 medical facilities. Over 2,200 educational institutions. Dozens of universities, hundreds of schools and kindergartens. The occupiers repeatedly deliberately fired artillery and mortars at people queuing for water, at evacuation buses, and repeatedly at public transport stops. The Russian army did not even refrain from striking at the memorials to the victims of the Holocaust, at the cemeteries… At the camp with prisoners of war in Olenivka. And there are no reports about it for some reason. This is immoral selectivity.

Anyone who amnesties Russia and who artificially creates such an informational context that some attacks by terrorists are supposedly justified or supposedly understandable, cannot but realize that it helps the terrorists. And if you provide manipulative reports, then you share the responsibility for the death of people with them.

Every day we expand the possibilities of our foreign policy – formal and informal. I spoke today with representatives of the African media – from Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya and Ghana. African countries can be affected very seriously by the destabilization of world markets and global relations provoked by Russia, in particular due to the food crisis. At the same time, in Africa there is a shortage of true information about the Russian war against our country and a surplus of Russian propaganda. We’ll do everything to change this balance.

Negotiations with the President of Guinea-Bissau took place for the first time in the history of our bilateral relations. I noted that Ukraine is ready to be a guarantor of food security for African countries. We discussed the support for our state in international organizations.

Tomorrow there will be new negotiations with a leader of an African country, and in general, only recently we started proper communication with eight leaders of African states.

Every day and in various ways, I remind some leaders of the European Union that Ukrainian pensioners, our displaced persons, our teachers and other people who depend on budget payments cannot be held hostage to their indecision or bureaucracy. 8 billion euros for Ukraine are currently suspended. And such an artificial delay of macro-financial assistance to our state is either a crime or a mistake, and it is difficult to say which is worse in such conditions of a full-scale war.

I don’t want to name the European country that is slowing it down now. Let’s believe that this is still a mistake and that it will be corrected.

I held a meeting of the Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief today. Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksiy Reznikov reported on the current provision of troops with equipment and ammunition. Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhny, Head of the Security Service Malyuk, Minister of Internal Affairs Monastyrskyi also delivered reports. We analyzed the situation in the most acute areas of the frontline, in particular in the Donetsk region. Particular attention was paid to the state of implementation of the previous decisions of the Staff, all of them must be implemented by 100%.

I signed another decree on awarding our warriors. 192 combatants were awarded state awards, six of them posthumously. In total, more than 25,500 of our defenders have already been awarded for bravery and effectiveness in battles since February 24. More than 4 thousand – posthumously.

Eternal memory to all who died for Ukraine!

Eternal gratitude to everyone who fights against Russian terrorists!

Glory to Ukraine!

Here is tonight’s operational update from Ukraine’s MOD:

The operational update regarding the russian invasion on 18.00, on August 4, 2022

Glory to Ukraine! The one hundred sixty second (162) day of the heroic resistance of the Ukrainian people to a russian military invasion continues.

The enemy is concentrating its main efforts in the East of Ukraine in order to establish full control over the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts within their administrative borders. Continues hostilities to hold the temporarily captured districts of Kherson and part of Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, and Mykolaiv oblasts. There remains a further threat of air and missile strikes on military and critical infrastructure facilities throughout Ukraine.

The situation has not undergone any significant changes in the Volyn, Polissya, and Siversky directions. No signs of the creation of offensive groups of the armed forces of the russian federation and the republic of belarus were found.

In order to demonstrate the presence and restraint of the Defense Forces, the enemy used barrel and rocket artillery to shell civilian and military infrastructure in the areas of Medvedivka, Mykolaivka, Chernihiv oblast and Krasnopilla, Myropilla, Mykhailivka, Velyka Rybytsia, Sumy oblast. Conducted aerial reconnaissance.

In the Kharkiv direction, the enemy carried out fire damage from barrel and jet artillery in the areas of the settlements of Kharkiv, Lebyazhe, Borshcheva, Dementiyivka, Korobochkyne, Velyki Prohody, Ruski Tyshky, Stary Saltiv, Pryshyb, Tsirkuny, Mospanove, Bezruki, Karasivka. Attempts are being made to break through the defenses of our troops near Husarivka, hostilities continue.

In the Slovyansk direction, the enemy is using tanks, barrel and jet artillery to shell the areas of the settlements of Bohorodychnye, Mazanivka, Husarivka, Adamivka, Kurulka, Khrestyshche, Sulyhivka, Dovhenke, and Velyka Komyshuvaha.

Attempts by the enemy to attack in the Dolyna and Bohorodychne areas, thanks to the skilful actions of our troops, ended in failure and escape.

In the Donetsk direction, the enemy is trying to dislodge units of the Defense Forces from occupied positions using tanks, barrel and rocket artillery. For the purpose of reconnaissance of logistics support routes and critical infrastructure facilities, the UAV conducted aerial reconnaissance.

In the Kramatorsk direction, shelling was recorded near Siversk, Mykolaivka, Starodubivka, Spirne, Kryva Luka, Verkhnokamyanske, Hryhorivka, Serebryanka, Raihorodok, and Kalenyky.

In the direction of Bakhmut, the enemy shelled military and civilian infrastructure near Pokrovske, Rozdolivka, Vershina, Yakovlivka, Bakhmut, Kodema and Soledar. Aviation was used for strikes near the last four settlements.

The occupiers tried to improve the tactical position in the areas of Bakhmut, Soledar, Yakovlivka and Vershyna by assaulting them, but were unsuccessful and withdrew. Fighting continues near Travneve and Kodema.

In the Avdiivka direction, the enemy fired from tanks and various types of artillery in the areas of Pisky, Prechystivka, Shevchenko, Volodymyrivka, Novobakhmutivka, Nevelske, Netaylove and Krasnohorivka settlements.

The enemy made another attempt of offensive actions in the area of ​​the settlement of Pisky, without success, hostilities continue.

In the Novopavlivsk and Zaporizhzhia directions, the enemy did not conduct active offensive actions, but carried out shelling from tanks, barrel and rocket artillery along the entire line of contact. Carried out airstrikes near Novopola. It unsuccessfully tried to break through the defenses near Maryinka, suffered losses and withdrew.

In the South Buh direction, the enemy is concentrating its efforts on preventing the advancement of units of the Defense Forces of Ukraine deep into the temporarily occupied territory.

There remains a high intensity of shelling from the weapons of tanks and artillery at the positions of our troops along the contact line. Aerial reconnaissance by UAVs does not stop.

The enemy carried out airstrikes in the areas of Mykolaiv, Luch, Lymany, Nova Zorya, Novomykolaivka, Kobzartsi, Lyubomirivka, Kiselivka, Andriivka, Lozove, Bilohirka, Osokorivka, Potemkine, Zeleny Hai, Bila Krynytsia, Balka Khutirska and Ivanivka.

Our soldiers stopped the enemy’s offensive in the areas of Bilohirka and Lozove and drove the invaders back.

We believe in the Armed Forces of Ukraine! Together to victory!

Glory to Ukraine!

There was no DOD backgrounder today.

Here is today’s assessment from Britain’s MOD:

And here is their updated map for today:

Here is former NAVDEVGRU Squadron Leader Chuck Pfarrer’s updated map and analysis for the battle in Kherson:

Notice the reference to Ukrainian Special Operations Forces and partisans acting as forward observer controllers regarding targeting.

We also now know, because it has been reported, that the US and Britain have been helping the Ukrainians in terms of intelligence. The Telegraph has the details:

Britain is helping Ukraine hunt Russian spies targeting Western-supplied weapons, the acting deputy head of Kyiv’s military intelligence has said.

Finding and destroying military aid flowing into Ukraine from Western countries is “goal number one for Russian agents”, according to Major General Vadym Skibitsky.

Long-range artillery pieces, such as the US-supplied Himars system, have brought Moscow’s advance almost to a halt and in recent days have rendered bridges in the Kherson region impassable to Russian vehicles, cutting off troops as Ukraine prepares a counter offensive.

Western officials believe Moscow has instructed intelligence agents, possibly including spies from the GRU’s Unit 29155 – deemed responsible for the 2018 Salisbury nerve agent attack and other attempted assassinations – to find the weapons donated by Western partners.

Speaking exclusively to The Telegraph from Kyiv’s heavily fortified government security district, Gen Skibitsky said tracking down the Russian spies searching for the supply lines was “impossible” without help from Britain and other international partners.

“As far as military intelligence is concerned [Britain and the US have provided] almost everything from information to equipment.”

Gen Skibitsky gave no specific details of the support Britain is providing, but said the assistance was “minute-to-minute, real-time information [of] all kinds”.

A significant portion of the lethal aid flowing into Ukraine is originally flown into the Rzeszów-Jasionka airfield in Poland, close to the border.

Russian agents thought to be operating near the airfield are suspected of tracking military flights, passing information to colleagues in Ukraine. It is thought these operators then follow the weapon transfers to find the storage sites.

These locations are then targeted for destruction by Russian long-range weapons such as Kalibr cruise missiles fired from submarines in the Black Sea.

Some Russian spies have been found as far west as Chernivtsi, near the border with Romania.

Russia claims to have destroyed several Himars rocket launchers in recent weeks, including two on Monday. However, Ukraine and Western sources say none have been damaged by Russia.

The Ukrainians, as we’re well aware, have been busy!

Not that we needed further evidence that the Amnesty International folks, safe in their homes in London, really do not understand what is going on in Ukraine, nor the stakes of the war the Ukrainians are waging to defend Ukraine…

Toretsk:

Kharkiv:

Melitopol:

WNBA professional basketball player Brittney Griner was sentenced to 9 and 1/2 years in prison today in Russia. Now that her sentence has been handed down, whatever prisoner swap that the US can get Russia to agree to for her and Paul Whelan can now move forward. I still think the most likely trade will be for Viktor Bout.

Watch the video of them bringing her into court. I counted seven armed guards in various types of uniforms. Eight if you count the actual canine in the K9 duo. I realize she’s bigger than all of them and stronger than all of them, but even if she was interested in making a break where exactly did they think she would go where they couldn’t find her. She’s a 6’9 non-Russian speaking Black woman with full sleeve tattoos on both arms. She’s not exactly going to blend in. Which is one of the reasons why the Biden administration has to work out a deal to get her back. If she actually gets sent to prison in Russia it will not be pleasant.

Guess which side Trump picked in regard to Griner’s arrest, trial, and sentencing? I bet you can’t guess:

Last night Alison Rose asked the following question in comments:

I read things like this through exceedingly non-military eyes, but

While Winter will slow operations in Ukraine, it is clear that Ukraine’s leadership is worried what the effects of the EU being cut off from most of Russian energy supplies will mean for its continued support.

…I mean…shouldn’t those worries make EU countries more willing and ready to support Ukraine rather than less? It’s obviously not quite this simple, but it seems to me in a broad sense that the more support Ukraine gets from other countries–be it money, weapons, training, etc–the more powerful a response it can give to russia, and (me being a Pollyanna) the sooner the war would end, or least wind back down to a pre-February-2022 type deal. But if support of any type is greatly decreased or pulled altogether, as much as I admire and am in awe of the Ukrainian people, obviously their victory gets harder to envision. No?

I am just a dumdum civilian so I could be off-base. (I didn’t mean that as a pun, but I’m leaving it there.)

What Russia is hoping to accomplish, with its economic warfare providing the means for its information warfare against the Europeans, is to create overlapping crises that it can then exploit to the detriment of Ukraine, NATO, the EU, and the US. By establishing the conditions to first overwhelm Europe with Ukrainian refugees and then second with African, Middle Eastern, and southeast Asian refugees as a result of creating a food crisis, Putin hopes to inflame nativist and nationalistic public sentiment in the EU states that his proxies in those states and societies can exploit. By creating an energy crisis going into winter, Putin hopes to further exacerbate the refugee and food crises he’s created through both direct Russian information warfare and indirect information warfare via Russian proxies that blames the Ukrainians for overlapping problems hitting European states and societies all at once. If he can bring down a few governments, great. If he can just ramp up extremists targeting anyone identified as a refugee, Ukrainian or otherwise, also great. If he can create enough chaos and problems to force some of these states to back off the economics and sanctions regime, as well as their support for Ukraine and to the Ukrainians, even better.

I think that’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron!

There are no new tweets on Patron’s official account, but I did find this:

The cuteness, it burns!!!!

Here’s the link for you Patron junkies out there:

Here’s a new video from Patron’s official TikTok:

@patron__dsns

А у вас таке було?😁 #песпатрон #патрондснс

♬ Funny Song – Cavendish Music

He’s clearly checking that carpet for unexploded ordnance hidden between the warp and the weft!

The caption translates as:

Have you had this?😁 #pespatron #patrondsns

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

59Comments

  1. 1.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    I hadn’t heard about the Amnesty report until I watched Zelenskyy’s video earlier, and I was like, the fuck? So I Googled and then I was like THE FUCK??? What an absolute load of horseshit. I’d like to think the people responsible for the report were just too stupid to realize what a gift it is to the russians, rather than mendacious enough to know it and go ahead. But I fear that’s wishful thinking on my part.

    Thank you for answering my question! What you say makes sense…even though I wish it didn’t.

    I am SO BUYING one of those crocheted Patrons.

    Thank you as always, Adam.

  2. 2.

    marklar

    Re: Brittney Griner

    I sent messages to my Congresswoman and Senator Casey recommending legislation revoking the visas of all Russian hockey players in the country. Russians (and Putin) bask in the glory of their accomplishments here (e.g., Ovechkin), and this will sting.

    And thanks again, Adam, for another post.  They are essential reading.

  3. 3.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: Amnesty has been shilling for russian interests since at least 2014. I wish Adam had linked to the statement from their Kyiv office – it is available in English. I’m just not in a position to link to it at the moment.

  4. 4.

    oldster

    I watched that film of the HIMARS strike on the 40-car ammo train. Then I watched it again. Glorious. A lot of expensive munitions that will not be launched at Ukrainians.

    A few days old, now, but still a source of good cheer.

    Thanks, Adam!

  10. 10.

    SamIAm

    Amnesty international’s report is confusing because Adam neither quoted it nor linked it.  Why is that?

    Whether you agree or disagree with AI it’s fundamentally dishonest not to include what they actually wrote.

    Since Adam won’t I will:

     

    Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February,” Amnesty International said in a statement. “Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets.”

    Russian strikes have hit civilians in populous areas where Ukraine has set up bases, Amnesty said.

    Ukraine’s tactics have put civilians in harm’s way in 19 towns, in part because they launched strikes from residential areas and based themselves in civilian buildings in the Kharkiv, Donbas, and Mykolaiv regions, according to the organization.

    The NGO said Ukraine’s strategy of placing military operations in populated areas “does not in any way justify indiscriminate Russian attacks.”

    So AI isn’t criticising the Ukranian goverment for defending their nation.

    They’re saying operating weapon systems in hospitals and schools violates International law.

    Why didn’t you include this information?

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gin & Tonic: I included the link to their statement on their Facebook page in Olga Tokariuk’s second to last tweet. I haven’t seen an official English language statement. If you email it to me, I’ll update the post.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SamIAm: I didn’t include it so you’d have something to complain about.

    When you start paying me, you can both dictate how I do my posts and complain when I don’t do them to your specification.

    Since you don’t pay me, go away and bother someone else.

  17. 17.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SamIAm: Also, what Amnesty is asserting is Russian propaganda to justify their war crimes going back to February. I’ve debunked this propaganda several times. Neither Amnesty nor Russia actually has or can provide any actual evidence to document and substantiate these assertions. Which is why I didn’t link or post it as I don’t want to be front paging Russian agitprop created to rationalize their genocidal war against Ukraine.

  18. 18.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    @SamIAm: Did you read the tweets Adam included from Olga Tokariuk? She addresses this very clearly. It is not “Ukraine’s tactics” that have put people in danger, and it’s repugnant bullshit to say otherwise. Or to agree with and amplify such statements.

  21. 21.

    Chetan Murthy

    @SamIAm: Oh honey, you think that quoting AI means you’re writing the truth?  Oh honey, really, get a clue.

    Oh, and get fucked.

  22. 22.

    Chetan Murthy

    @SamIAm: And let me BE FUCKING CLEAR, BITCH: I DGAF if UA drops a bomb onto YOUR FUCKING HOUSE in FUCKING MOSCOW, ASSHOLE.  All you Russians deserve to fucking die, you fucker.

    Burn in hell, Boris.

  24. 24.

    SamIAm

    @Adam L Silverman:

     

    “We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.

    “Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”

    Not every Russian attack documented by Amnesty International followed this pattern, however. In certain other locations in which Amnesty International concluded that Russia had committed war crimes, including in some areas of the city of Kharkiv, the organization did not find evidence of Ukrainian forces located in the civilian areas unlawfully targeted by the Russian military.

    Between April and July, Amnesty International researchers spent several weeks investigating Russian strikes in the Kharkiv, Donbas and Mykolaiv regions. The organization inspected strike sites; interviewed survivors, witnesses and relatives of victims of attacks; and carried out remote-sensing and weapons analysis.

     

    They have documented evidence from people on the ground in Ukraine.

  26. 26.

    SamIAm

    @Chetan Murthy:

     

    The Russians have dropped bombs on my cousins’ houses in Ukraine.  I have relative there dipshit.

     

    If you have family there too I understand your anger but this post is not helping Ukraine’s cause.  But I am done replying to you.

  28. 28.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    @SamIAm: Do you work for AI? Why are you so invested in propping up this garbage? Many, many people–including people who work for Amnesty Ukraine, for God’s sake–have pushed back vehemently. You know who hasn’t? russia. Nice side you’ve chosen.

  32. 32.

    Chetan Murthy

    I know this is a bit off-topic, but only a *bit*.  The PRC is taking careful notes from RU.

    In case your French is not too rusty, you can listen to Chinese ambassador in France proudly saying on TV that after the “reunification”, China will start “re-educate” Taiwanese people. https://t.co/3VF9Y9rfPz
    — Pierre-Yves Baubry 🇺🇦 (@pybaubry) August 4, 2022

  34. 34.

    Another Scott

    @SamIAm: If what the Tweet from Ukraine says is accurate, then the UK branch rushed ahead to get this report out.  It’s not a good look, to say the least.

    You could say, we’ll, AI has principles that it doesn’t compromise on and among those is that military equipment should never be put in civilian areas.  That can be a fine principle, but it is not actually realistic in a highly populated modern country – witness the Washington Navy Yard.

    Bottom line – Ukraine was attacked and invaded by Russia. VVP is the aggressor, he is the ones putting civilians at risk, he is the ones shelling civilian areas and yes, maybe even military targets that are in civilian areas and killing civilians there.

    Amnesty’s report is not an even-handed statement about protecting civilians, it is giving VVP cover.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  35. 35.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    @SamIAm: Yes, why would they? Why on Earth would they decide to put out such a mendacious and harmful statement about a country being invaded and decimated by a maniacal bully intent on genocide? What could their motivations be?

    See G&T’s comment above, and heed Adam’s instruction to йди до біса

  36. 36.

    Carlo Graziani

    Yeah. I’m afraid I have to go figure out how to cancel my automatic monthly donation to those guys. Pity,  many things that they do are worth supporting, but this kind of prissy expectation of a victim of aggression in an active war zone is lazy, stupid, smug and wrong. Time to send a message.

  37. 37.

    Sally

    When I started university, I went to join AI.  But I discussed with them FMG.  They were strongly opposed to denouncing the practice, on the basis that it was “cultural”.  As we have discussed here recently, culture is not an excuse for bigotry or torture.  I found their patronising arguments disingenuous.  Was it because it targeted “only” women, I asked. They told me there were higher priorities.  Can’t walk and chew gum, I asked.  Culture must change when it subjugates people, and it must be appropriately denounced.  I argued that FMG is torture, not culture.  It took years before they came around to my thinking.  A day late and a dollar short, for me.  I never donate to Amnesty, and I tell them why.

  39. 39.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m taking my own comment down. I got some upsetting news earlier today, I’m tired and out of sorts, and I shouldn’t be looking to pick fights. Or an excuse to get in one.

  41. 41.

    prostratedragon

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Thought I heard something off from them last year,  don’t recall what, but this here is LOUD and fucking wrong.  They are dead to me for the foreseeable.

  42. 42.

    BeautifulPlumage

    @Gin & Tonic: thanks for this, hadn’t been following them and wondered when they had changed. Seems like the life cycle of international NGO’s is to keep getting bigger until the money attracts grifters or the influence attracts political infiltration to minimize the influence.

  43. 43.

    hotshoe

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m sorry to hear that you have had upsetting news — whatever it is, none of my business — please be kind to yourself, be as safe as you can be, and we will see ya later <3

  44. 44.

    kalakal

    My opinion of AI hit rock bottom when I found out that in 1964 they dropped Nelson Mandela as a prisoner of conscience. The reason? The South African government had convicted him of violence.

    The Russians launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, they’re responsible for the murders that result from that invasion. AI can go fuck themselves

    ETA Adam Silverman sorry to hear you’ve had some bad news, take care of yourself

  45. 45.

    Bill Arnold

    @SamIAm:
    Maybe read this older Amnesty report about a town of 56000, and multiply by maybe 20 to get some understanding of the base level of the everyday Russian war crimes in Ukraine, if one just considers indiscriminate bombardment of civilian areas and ignores atrocity-level war crimes.
    Ukraine: Humanitarian Catastrophe in Izium. The Plight of Civilians under Bombardment and Siege-like Conditions (March 22, 2022)
    The largest example being Mariupol,, a city that had a population roughly 450K, that was 90% destroyed/badly damaged with several kilotons of barrel and rocket artillery and aerial bombardment, probably killing 20K+ inhabitants (with evidence subsequently (almost certainly) destroyed/obscured by the Russians; it is their way of mass atrocity; increasingly dumb, because cell phone cameras and other surveillance cameras.), because the Russians wanted control of the city. Amnesty hasn’t done a report on that city. Maybe remind yourself why.
    Amnesty either fucked up with this report, or is deliberately providing propaganda material for use by Russia. The report is already being widely used by Russian and pro-Russian propagandists, who will of course rightly assume that few people will ever read reports like the one linked above.
    And yes, they are not getting any money from me ever again, unless they apologize for publishing this recent piece.
    Anyway, here’s the collection of Ukraine reports. Some are pretty scathing about Russian war crimes (click on the all-stories button, too): https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/ukraine/#research .  (Look at the reports prior to the invasion for a feel for how AI was treating Ukraine; compare with its treatment of other countries. Looks antii-Ukraine biased to me, FWIW.)
    Links to the reports about the evils of Russia’s invasion (or maybe just Russia) should be dropped on e.g. every twitter thread that references the the AI “ukraine endangers civlions” shit.

  47. 47.

    dr. luba

    I’ve been an AI supporter for some thirty years, with monthly contributions,  Today I called and cancelled.

    No more.

    I’ll send what they would have gotten to Ukraine instead.

  48. 48.

    Jinchi

    @SamIAm: “reprehensible behavior”?

    Adam puts an incredible amount of effort into keeping us informed of the state of the war, far beyond anything I’ve seen from a single media source.

    It’s entirely a gesture of goodwill on his part and he does it in a forum that leaves you free to comment, disagree or add information yourself. 

  50. 50.

    daveNYC

    The whacky thing about the AI report is that the implication of the way they apply their rules is that a country fighting on the defensive basically has to lose access to a large portion of their country’s infrastructure.  Saying that the military should stay in military bases is silly, since obvious target is obvious, and most military bases are unlikely to be in the exact right spot to defend against an invader; and demands that military units scoot off to a nearby field or forest is equally silly since the reason they’re in towns is because the towns are what the Russian army wants to capture.  Plus the issue that most cities and towns are going to have government buildings (which I assume would be legal to stick troops in) right up next to civilian buildings.  Then there’s the whole other issue that SAM sites probably should be pretty close to the whatever they’re trying to defend, so sticking them in town is just the way of it.

    If AI was pointing out that Ukraine parked a 777 battery in the courtyard of a kindergarten that was in session, then yeah, that’s shit and should be called out; but this report reads more like them bitching that Ukraine isn’t running the military like it’s the Napoleonic Wars, with large armies clomping around and facing off in large set battles or something.

    Just what the hell is in the water at their London HQ?

  53. 53.

    West of the Cascades

    So sorry Adam to hear you are dealing with upsetting news. Take good care, and thank you for again for putting up information daily that cannot but be upsetting itself, but is essential information to be out there.

  54. 54.

    West of the Cascades

    And, just to pile on AI, this from their Wiki page – the organization seems completely in the bag for Russia:
    2021 alteration of Alexei Navalny’s status[edit]
    Amnesty International’s decision in February 2021 to strip Alexei Navalny‘s status as a Prisoner of Conscience, due to comments made about migrants in 2007 and 2008 regarded as hate speech,[185] provoked criticism from other human rights organisations and resignations from supporters.[186][187][188] Amnesty stated that a person who has “advocated violence or hatred” is excluded from their current definition of a Prisoner of Conscience and that the use of the term was intended to “emphasize the unjust nature of his detention and our opposition to his unfounded prosecution”, but upon reviewing the case, the use of the term Prisoner of Conscience was found to be a mistake. Amnesty apologised for “poor timing” which had allowed the Kremlin to “weaponise” the controversy against Navalny’s supporters.[189] Amnesty stated it still considered Navalny a political prisoner.[190]

    An anonymous Amnesty employee[191] stated he believed a propaganda campaign was allegedly organized against Navalny, by making his previous controversial comments more prominent. Amnesty’s decision was described by western media as “a huge victory for Russian state propaganda” which undermined Amnesty’s support of Navalny’s release.[192][188] Following those accusations, Amnesty International answered: “Reports that Amnesty’s decision was influenced by the Russian state’s smear campaign against Navalny are untrue. At no point were statements falsely attributed to Navalny, or information solely intended to discredit him, taken into consideration. Propaganda by the Russian authorities is recognizable as such.”[189]

    Amnesty later redesignated Navalny as a Prisoner of Conscience, stating on 7 May 2021 that, as an initial step in a review of its “approach to the use of the term ‘Prisoner of Conscience'”, it will no longer exclude people from being called Prisoners of Conscience “solely based on their conduct in the past,” as they recognize people’s “opinions and behaviour may evolve over time.”

  56. 56.

    Gin & Tonic

    @West of the Cascades:

    due to comments made about migrants in 2007 and 2008 regarded as hate speech

    Alexei Navalny is a racist, pure and simple. He is also a russian imperialist, just one who thinks he should be in charge.

  57. 57.

    Torrey

    Adam, I echo the many good wishes you’ve received above, as well as the thanks for your hard work, time and effort in collecting and posting material that cannot be easy to look at, even for those trained in thinking about such matters.

    Re AI: if anyone is up for some prime Ukrainian snark that also makes a solid argument, UATV English has a 5-minute video on the AI report: “Amnesty for russia? Amnesty International teaches Ukrainians how to die properly.”

  58. 58.

    SteverinoCT

    A little late to the thread, per usual, but I have a question: given the reports of the ongoing Russian accuracy issues, missile and artillery, are these strikes against bus stops, food queues, etc. specifically targeted, or random chance? Just curious– with the enormous amount of metal being flung in the air, some of it is bound to come down in a bad spot.

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