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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Breaking: FBI Raid Mar-a-Lago?

Breaking: FBI Raid Mar-a-Lago?

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295Comments

  2. 2.

    Emma from Miami

    Mary, Joseph, and the wee donkey. What the hell led a federal judge to issue THAT warrant?

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    And no warning whatsoever. No leaks to the FTNYT or Politico or whatever even hinting that this might be coming. Just a team showing up with the search warrant and proceeding to execute it.

  4. 4.

    Ihop

    My aunt passed last month. It was probably her most desired non-family related wish that the orange fuc*bag would go down in her time.

    Go Jane go.

  6. 6.

    TaMara

    This thread might answer some folks questions:

  8. 8.

    stacib

    Even if they don’t find anything, it’s worth it for the amount of fear the government just put into his ass.  And they thought he had trouble sleeping before.  That SOB will be looking around corners for the rest of his days.

  11. 11.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @dmsilev: Nah, this is why they were trying to claim to be “in talks” with DOJ.  As if they had any choice about this.

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    From FTNYT:

    The search, according to two people familiar with the investigation, appeared to be focused on material that Mr. Trump had brought with him to Mar-a-Lago, his private club and residence, after he left the White House. Those boxes contained many pages of classified documents, according to a person familiar with their contents.

    Also, some bonus schadenfreude:

    “They even broke into my safe!” he wrote. “What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee? Here, in reverse, Democrats broke into the home of the 45th President of the United States.”

  14. 14.

    Kent

    Good lord, it could be for so many different things from 1/6 to tax evasion to perjury in a dozen different instances to treason to mishandling of classified information to God only knows what.

  15. 15.

    PAM Dirac

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: More from Popehat:

    /16 As
    @jbarro
    and I were just discussing, it’s rather surprising to me that the misappropriated documents (even if classified) would get DoJ to execute a warrant. Not what I’d expect them to find adequate to do something this big. So I suspect there’s more

  18. 18.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Trump confirms that federal law enforcement is executing a search warrant at Mar-A-Lago.

    This means a federal judge found that there is good reason to believe that a crime was committed and that evidence of that crime was located in Mar-A-Lago.

    Trump should be very concerned. –Renato Mariotti

  20. 20.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dmsilev:

    “They even broke into my safe!” he wrote. “What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee? Here, in reverse, Democrats broke into the home of the 45th President of the United States.”

    What is “due process under the supervision of a Federal judge who approved a search warrant”?

    I’ll take obvious answer to stupid questions for four hundred, Alex.

  21. 21.

    dmsilev

    @TaMara: From the tail end of that thread,

    /14 A search doesn’t ensure they will charge Trump — or anyone –but it suggests they’ve found the political will to do so if necessary and overcome any policy or legal theory reasons not to move forward.

    The very unlikely (Trump being charged) has become fully plausible.
    — ComprisedHat (@Popehat) August 8, 2022

    Popehat is a fairly cautious guy on such matters, so this is a big shift.

  30. 30.

    Ksmiami

    Why is there so much dang dramatic news every day? This is getting ridiculous with no let up

  32. 32.

    Gravenstone

    Yeah, just saw this, including reports of Trump complaining that they even “broke into” his safe. More power to ya, fellas. Hopefully it was a very fruitful haul of evidence of illegality.

  35. 35.

    Ksmiami

    @Suzanne: it’s been an exhausting 6 years tho… of course I want Ketchup tosser to go to jail, it’s just we don’t ever have a slow day anymore

  36. 36.

    bbleh

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: … he wrote. “What is the difference between this and Watergate …?”

    Trump is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about that!  In BOTH cases a Republican President abused the power of his office and committed federal crimes that ultimately were discovered and led to federal investigations.

    I certainly hope the parallel continues to the sentencing phase.

  37. 37.

    dmsilev

    So, did the Senate secretly sign off on the search warrant last night, authorization buried on page 546 of the IRA bill?

    I know that’s not how it works, but it’d be hilarious if it were so.

  39. 39.

    dmsilev

    @Ksmiami: The past several years have really hammered home the truth of the apocryphal curse “may you live in interesting times”.

  40. 40.

    Ken

    @Ksmiami: I assume some White House reporter said “Biden is booorrrring, I wish we had something exciting to cover like when Trump was president,” and was in earshot if a passing djinn.

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    @Ksmiami:

    it’s been an exhausting 6 years tho 

    Truer words, etc etc etc.
    In some ways, I feel like I am an entirely different person than I was in 2016.

  43. 43.

    MagdaInBlack

    Just saw Jesse Waters and Dana Loesch loosing their minds over this on fox. It was delightful

    Eta: and Dan Bongino says this is some 3rd world bull-shit.

    Oh this is so fun.

  45. 45.

    counterfactual

    Given how stringent the requirements for a federal warrant are, that raises the question:

    Who flipped on the Don?

  47. 47.

    Elizabelle

    @counterfactual:   Thinking it was Mark Meadows?

    And maybe others.

    I look forward to more J6 hearings this month, even if they are not scheduled at present.

  50. 50.

    Baud

    Reddit commenter

    The Director of the FBI—which is currently raiding Donald Trump’s home—was appointed by Donald Trump.

  51. 51.

    Jager

    @dmsilev:

    Pelosi wrote it on her plane ride back from Asia. Schumer added volatile lines, the 1/6 committee reviewed the warrant, and they shopped for a Federal Judge. Found one and lined up every FBI Agent who had ever mentioned a negative word about trump. The entire thing is just another witchhunt. No president has ever been treated worse…

  53. 53.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Trump was also accused Trump of stealing a lot of the gifts from foreign governments to the US and showing them off like trophies at Maro Largo is on brand for Dumb Ass Donny.

  58. 58.

    RandomMonster

    Trump later: “…And occupied by a large number of FBI agents. Big burly men with tears in their eyes, saying, ‘Sir, we don’t want to do this! You’re the most innocent and perfect President ever in the history of presidents!’”

  61. 61.

    HumboldtBlue

    And it’s only Monday. Now that fucking ghoul Stephen Miler is on Fox, and he’s ranting ABOUT HER EMAILS AND SECRET SERVER!

    Also, Dark Brandon is having himself a week!

  62. 62.

    Mike in NC

    Tonight might be a good time for the Trump Crime Cartel to get on a plane to Moscow.

  63. 63.

    Roger Moore

    @dmsilev: ​
     

    What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee?

    A warrant? That seems like a significant difference.

  64. 64.

    Ihop

    @Ken: I wonder if the orange fuc*bag had the same djinn as nandor the relentless did and used all of his wishes on his hair, glorious hair.

    Anybody?

  66. 66.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    MSNBC talking heads have referred to trump as “the President” four times in the last few minutes.

    Drives me crazy. “Former”, “trump”, “ex-president”. It’s not hard.

  68. 68.

    Spanky

    I pity the lacky that has to clean up after the brat’s tantrum tonight. Fortunately, the current job market is great!

  70. 70.

    PAM Dirac

    More Popehat:

     

    /19 The more I think about it, the more I suspect recent, highly actionable intelligence, possibly from a cooperator, drove this and its timing. The need for freshness — proof that the evidence is there NOW — is key.

  79. 79.

    OGLiberal

    Somewhere, Brandon Straka and Marge Greene are in a cell crying and praying over this.

  81. 81.

    Fair Economist

    @Roger Moore:

    What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee?

    A warrant? That seems like a significant difference.

    Zing!

  83. 83.

    LeftCoastYankee

    I will have some Freude mit un side of Schaden, and hold the WWII German Generals.

  85. 85.

    Liminal Owl

    @Emma from Miami: Not the pee tapes, but along those lines…some activity with actual agents of an enemy government (that compromised national security) AND minors. And maybe a corpse or two.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    I think Popehat offers a clue – they are unlikely to execute a search warrant for the removal of classified documents because, well, former presidents routinely have access to classified documents. They are permanently entrusted with classified information.

    But if those classified documents were related to Jan 6 or to some other criminal activity by the WH. Well, that’s a different matter. I suspect the *contents* of the classified docs are what makes this special and there’s not really been any indication of the contents of the classified docs removed, but I don’t think it’s a huge leap to think that case is connected to Jan 6 in some way.

  91. 91.

    Van Buren

    “Trump shows profound ignorance of the law”….and every other subject covered in Wikipedia.

  95. 95.

    Josie

    I am as happy tonight as I was when I watched Nixon resign. Actually, maybe even happier. Difficult choice.

  98. 98.

    Suzanne

    @OGLiberal:

    Brandon Straka and Marge Greene are in a cell crying and praying over this. 

    I was about to say something really, really inappropriate for a family blog, but I will refrain and just call for another round of the Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme.

  99. 99.

    West of the Rockies

    Speculation Alert:  I bet Republicans wish they’d allowed Merrick Garland a SCOTUS seat now.  Someone else might not be putting together the cautious, methodical sort of case he likely is.

  104. 104.

    jonas

    @MagdaInBlack: ​
     

    Dan Bongino says this is some 3rd world bull-shit.

    No, Dan. This is some first-world, country with a Constitution that follows the rule of law righteous shit. Letting Trump run around doing whatever he wants is banana-republic, third-world bullshit.

  106. 106.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    First president to be impeached twice

    First president to lose the popular vote twice

    First president to be raided by law enforcement

  107. 107.

    PAM Dirac

    @Josie:

     

    I am as happy tonight as I was when I watched Nixon resign.

    A very happy day indeed. My buddies and I grabbed a pizza and headed down to the ellipse to yell at the bastard as he left. The biggest cheer was when a moving van passed by. As for this day, I’ll be happier when the FBI/DOJ give some details. I don’t think with something this big the FBI/DOJ can get away with a “no comment on an ongoing investigation”.

  109. 109.

    Suzanne

    @MagdaInBlack: Just that Brandon Straka and butterface MTG looked like they were on the set of a terrible porn film.

    But if there is video of this raid — or of TFG’s meltdown when he learned about it — I hope that shit goes on Pornhub because that is hot.

  110. 110.

    RaflW

    As to what evidence DoJ may have recently come to have which could trigger a search, I gotta wonder if Alex Jones’s phone image at DoJ now?

    That HUGE gift came available a matter of days ago. It would not shock me if two paranoid and emotionally unregulated chaps were following zero infosec and just texting each other with abandon.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    Looks like ol’ Tucker is NOT up on the air doing “Tucker Carlson Tonight” at the moment (someone else appears to be hosting or reporting)…he’s probably bonkers trying to figure out how to spin this.

    RUN GOP RUN

  112. 112.

    JoyceH

    @counterfactual:

    Given how stringent the requirements for a federal warrant are, that raises the question:

    Who flipped on the Don?

    Exactly what I was thinking! If this was about the documents that were removed from the WH over a year and a half ago, in order to get a warrant, they’d need some more specific information, so somebody important must have flipped. “Oh, yeah, sure – I saw those on the credenza just last week.”

  113. 113.

    prostratedragon

    @Narya: ​ Events do have their rhythm. DOJ would hardly hold this up even for an hour (talk about fucking around!), so this must be just how it came out.

  117. 117.

    CaseyL

    @Martin:

    former presidents routinely have access to classified documents. They are permanently entrusted with classified information.

     

    Not this one. The Biden Administration made it clear pretty much from Inauguration Day that courtesy would not be extended to Trump.

  119. 119.

    Dangerman

    Curiously, they found 19 testicles in the safe; someone mist have lost one in a previous accident…

    …and some judge apparently has one hell of a set. Damn.

  121. 121.

    Jeffro

    @Narya: I know, right???

    We need a new holiday – August has no good excuses for adults to get out and party, other than their kids are going back to school.

    I propose National Stain Removal Day (brought to you by Clorox)

  122. 122.

    Spanky

    @Jeffro:

    Looks like ol’ Tucker is NOT up on the air doing “Tucker Carlson Tonight” at the moment (someone else appears to be hosting or reporting)…he’s probably bonkers trying to figure out how to spin this.  get out of the country undetected.

    Ftfy

  124. 124.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Dana Bash in on CNN saying “this great news for dump” – something, something about base will rally to him.

    It’s always sunny for republicans in the DC media.

  127. 127.

    prostratedragon

    @Jeffro: other than their kids are going back to school
    According to friends who have kids, nothing else is really needed. However, how about Reckoning Day? (Might lie uneasily between the two A-bomb days, but then, … )

  129. 129.

    Jeffro

    @Spanky: I’ve been keeping an eye on the TV feed via the Faux website, but I might just have to turn on the tube and mainline the floundering and flailing firsthand.  =)

  133. 133.

    PaulB

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:Dana Bash in on CNN saying “this great news for dump” – something, something about base will rally to him.

    It wouldn’t surprise me to find he’s half right. This might well (temporarily) help Trump with a wavering base, some of whom were thinking they’d go with DeSantis.

    Where he’s wrong, though, is that this doesn’t help Trump in the general election, since even those supposed independent voters are likely sick and tired of the drama and just want him to go away. And the rest of us already weren’t going to vote for Trump, anyway.

    In any case, this incident alone isn’t likely to impact the 2024 election unless something else comes of it, like an actual indictment. If this just disappears, there will be newer events that will dominate the 2024 election discourse.

  134. 134.

    different-church-lady

    Theses are the 1-2 headlines for the WaPo on my phone at the moment:

    FBI searches Trump’s safe at Mar-a-Lago club, former president says

    Inside Biden’s hot streak, from the poolside to the Capitol

    Methinks the narrative worm has turned.

  135. 135.

    jonas

    @Dangerman: ​

    Curiously, they found 19 testicles in the safe; someone mist have lost one in a previous accident…

    Gotta be more than that. Letsee. 44 male Republican senators, 184 GOP representatives = Wow. A hell of a lot of missing testicles. Trump must keep the others in jars at Bedminster where he laughs at them every day before going to bed.​
    ETA: ok, forgot to account for the couple of pair that Trump hasn’t managed to collect the full set of, including Kitzinger’s. And maybe only one of Romney’s. But it’s a substantial collection nonetheless.​

  136. 136.

    Spanky

    @PaulB: I sincerely doubt that an fbi raid on a former president’s residence is going to simply disappear. I only hope the inevitable indictment is not sealed.

  137. 137.

    HumboldtBlue

    @PaulB: ​

    One detail, Dana Bash is a woman.

    Also, if he’s convicted of destroying Fed documents, he gets barred from holding elected office.

  138. 138.

    PaulB

    @Jeffro:he’s probably bonkers trying to figure out how to spin this.

    Honestly, this one is easy to spin. They’ll just reuse the same shit they’ve been using all along, that the “Deep State” is involved, that Trump is “the most persecuted politician in history,” that this is a sign of “how desperate Biden and Democrats are,” that this is “purely partisan politics,” ad nauseam. Hell, they’ll even bring Obama, Clinton, and Russia into this.

    It won’t convince anyone but their base but that’s the only audience they’re going after.

  139. 139.

    CaseyL

    I just had a thought: the classified info Trump took with him is a couple of years old by now. Might not be of much value.  But he made sure to leave a bunch of moles throughout the government, quite possibly in the State Department, Defense, and DHS.  I wonder if any of them continued to send him classified info that came across their desks…

  140. 140.

    Emma from Miami

    @dmsilev: According to my sister who was listening to the news on her way home, it has to do with the documents they withheld from the National Archives​
     ,

  142. 142.

    mrmoshpotato

    @West of the Rockies:

    Speculation Alert: I bet Republicans wish they’d allowed Merrick Garland a SCOTUS seat now. Someone else might not be putting together the cautious, methodical sort of case he likely is. 

    Hahahahaha!

  144. 144.

    PaulB

    @Spanky:I sincerely doubt that an fbi raid on a former president’s residence is going to simply disappear.

    I’ve certainly been very badly wrong before with my political prognostications, so I’m not going to bet anything on this. I’m just thinking about how far away 2024 is, how rapid our news cycle is, and how many fresh outrages Trump generates on a regular basis. I’m also remembering that Giuliani was similarly raided and that nothing came of it.

    But, as I said, my track record in the Trump era just isn’t very good so I could be completely off-base.

    My apologies to Ms. Bash for mis-gendering her. Thank you to HumboldtBlue for correcting me. I missed the cutoff to edit my post by just a few seconds.

  145. 145.

    prostratedragon

    I’d assumed that there’d be no big indictments until well into next year. Wonder whether and how this affects that timeline?

  146. 146.

    jonas

    @PaulB: ​
     

    Where he’s wrong, though, is that this doesn’t help Trump in the general election, since even those supposed independent voters are likely sick and tired of the drama and just want him to go away. And the rest of us already weren’t going to vote for Trump, anyway.

    Also, even the most hardcore Republican big money donors will tend to shy away from people under federal indictment, even if it riles up his base. And Trump will never self fund because he’s too much of a tightwad and plus, there’s no grifting angle. And there always has to be a grift, or else it’s no fun. But I expect at least for the time being, he’s rubbing his hands together just thinking about the donations that are going to roll in to his not-at-all-personal-slushfund-“PAC” to help him *chortle!!* fight the Deep State out to get him *phffft! chortle!!

  148. 148.

    Villago Delenda Est

    As I said in the last thread, if I’d pulled this shit when I had access to classified documents, you wouldn’t be reading these words, because I’d be in Leavenworth.

  149. 149.

    Albatrossity

    Hannity is going bananas, wondering “Why doesn’t this happen to a Democrat? Is equal justice under the law dead in this country?”

    Words fail me. But the cultists will lap it up and puke it out in even more vile puddles.

  150. 150.

    Starfish

    So much Republican whining on Twitter! It’s awesome. Let me bathe in their tears.

    When there is a search warrant for a former President doing crimes, threaten the DOJ.

    Attorney General Garland: preserve your documents and clear your calendar. pic.twitter.com/dStAjnwbAT
    — Kevin McCarthy (@GOPLeader) August 9, 2022

    Yes, make sure they all suspect one another, Asha.

    3. Also, on this point, I have to wonder whether the FBI has a source in MAL, to confirm the presence and location of docs. Staff? Secret Service? I can’t imagine them taking a chance to search a former president’s home and coming up empty handed (😬)
    — Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) August 9, 2022

  156. 156.

    West of the Rockies

    @Spanky:

    Well, wasn’t a warrant served on Gaetz?  His giant potato head is still free in public.

    I’d not expect any rapid follow-up.

  157. 157.

    Scout211

    Some legal speculation on CNN.com.

    If it’s true that the search warrant is about the presidential documents:

    Legal experts tell CNN that any unauthorized retention or destruction of White House documents raises a red flag under a criminal law that prohibits the removal or destruction of official government records.
    But for a charge like this to fly, prosecutors would need to show that Trump had “willfully” violated the law – a high bar, though one that prosecutors could potentially meet given the frequent efforts within the White House to try to preserve records Trump would habitually mutilate.
    Furthermore, other criminal laws could come into play as well, if an investigation by the Justice Department progresses.
    “If the intent was ‘Let me get these documents taken out of the way because they could look bad, they could be damning for me in an investigation, in a lawsuit,’ then you’re talking about potential obstruction of justice. So the devil will be in the details here,” said CNN legal analyst Elie Honig.

    Are there other laws with teeth?
    Maybe.
    One criminal law prohibits destroying government property – provided the person charged intentionally violated the law.
    As a former officer of the United States, Trump also has an ongoing obligation to protect classified information he received as president.
    While in office, he had the ability to declassify, making his own decisions. But that power ended when he left the presidency, and it’s unclear whether he declassified any records held at Mar-a-Lago while he was still in office.
    “If there was intentional, knowing destruction of classified documents, that’s a federal crime,” Honig said on CNN.

  163. 163.

    PaulB

    I’ve seen some of the MAGAdroids absolutely furious that Trump got raided and that Hillary Clinton never did. That’s “proof” to them that Trump was right about everything.

  164. 164.

    jonas

    Of course the incredible irony of all this is that — if the current reporting is correct — Trump could end up facing federal charges for the very thing he spent years demanding Hillary Clinton be “locked up for” for all eternity, namely mishandling classified material. Whole conferences on psychological projection will have to be organized around this. It’s a world-historical case study.

  165. 165.

    HumboldtBlue

    Maddow’s guest pointing out Garland had to have signed off on this. Chuck Schumer is up next on her show.

  166. 166.

    piratedan

    @Spanky: maybe Trump confiscated all of those Secret Service, Homeland and Pentagon phones and had them just sitting around to use as future burners.

  167. 167.

    RSA

    @stacib: That SOB will be looking around corners for the rest of his days.

    I’m guessing some security contractor is going to have a lot of new business, with daily scans for eavesdropping devices throughout the entire property.

    Too bad, because Trump will stiff them in the end.

  168. 168.

    RaflW

    @OGLiberal: Marge Greene tweeted “Defund the FBI” this evening.

    One could get whiplash turning from how horrible and unAmerican it was for kids to say “defund the police” to where we are today.

    But folx like Marge are not consistently anything. Except stupid.

  169. 169.

    Starfish

    Olivia Julianna, the young lady who raised over $2 million dollars for abortion funds when Matt Gaetz called her names, has taken the Dark Biden meme to create Dark Garland.

  171. 171.

    jonas

    @Starfish: Somehow I don’t think Garland will see this as some kind of threat. You know, because he’s not a crook and knows what he’s doing. Republicans still haven’t gronked this somehow. Like when they were sure they had Hillary Clinton dead to rights and instead got this.

  172. 172.

    Scout211

    @Baud: Yes, and those “three anonymous sources to CNN” have been quoted everywhere as factual.   No one (except for Trump) is on the record.

  176. 176.

    Starfish

    @Baud: What happens if in a search for documents related to crimes, you find documents related to different crimes?

  180. 180.

    Ken

    I’m going to assume the urgency was because they spotted a “4SALE — government secrets — $1.000,000 or best offer — no posers” ad on eBay, or maybe Craigslist.

    (Now wondering if I’m going to get put in moderation for looking like spam….)

  182. 182.

    bbleh

    @Baud: Concur.  There is the issue of imminence — why was this raid necessary NOW?  If it’s just to recover some documents for the archives …  ?!

    (Plus, of course, why did it happen now, and why only at MAL, vs, say, all his clubs/residences simultaneously?)

  183. 183.

    CaseyL

    @UncleEbeneezer: He also tweets that mishandling classified information all by itself is unlikely to lead to an FBI raid, so there must be something else going on.

    Like, say, selling or otherwise sharing the information. To the Saudis? Putin?

    I would almost have to laugh myself into a coma if it turns out Trump sold US secrets to China.

  185. 185.

    NorthLeft

    I have to laugh about TFG’s reference to a third world country. It was Deadbeat Donald’s efforts that put the US on the path to being one of those corrupt shithole countries.

    Biden and the Dems in Congress have been making pretty good progress, under the circumstances, to turn that around.

    Showing that there is one standard of justice for everyone is probably the most important part of that effort. Keep up the good work and get this crooked grifter into a courtroom and a judge and jury.

  186. 186.

    rikyrah

     

    THEE TreBien (@TreBien_Beauty) tweeted at 4:50 PM on Mon, Aug 08, 2022:
    Here’s the thing, I like President Biden. I liked him when he was Vice President Biden, I used to call him Uncle Joe because he was like America’s straight forward uncle that couldn’t help but to swear at the dinner table. And I like him now. 1/2
    (https://twitter.com/TreBien_Beauty/status/1556759742185320448?s=02)

    THEE TreBien (@TreBien_Beauty) tweeted at 4:51 PM on Mon, Aug 08, 2022:
    2/2 I laughed at the Biden /Obama memes in 2016 and I was proud to vote for him in 2020 (no need to hold my nose). I’m proud to have him as my President now. He’s a great person and a good president and I truly hope he knows that he makes us so very proud #DarkBrandonToTheRescue
    (https://twitter.com/TreBien_Beauty/status/1556760022167588864?s=02)

  187. 187.

    jonas

    @dmsilev: ​
      Trump is in Bedminster, NJ for the summer and Mar-a-Lago is basically shut down. I doubt any SS agents were even on the premises.

  189. 189.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Scout211: I have destroyed classified documents in the course of my official duties.  I documented the destruction, and a witness signed off on the document.  This is absolutely routine in the military.  The catch here is, TFG probably didn’t bother to document the destruction.  Which means the documents might as well be in the wind for the GRU to cart away.

  190. 190.

    different-church-lady

    @zhena gogolia:

    Hannity: If you are associated with Donald Trump in any way, you better cross all your i’s and dot all your t’s

    Isn’t that what got them in this mess to begin with?

  192. 192.

    RSA

    @Scout211:

    “If there was intentional, knowing destruction of classified documents, that’s a federal crime,” Honig said on CNN.

    I’m not an expert, and I haven’t seen the context, but I think the gist is that unauthorized knowing destruction of classified documents is a federal crime, and if the U.S. government doesn’t have copies of those documents, it’s a bigger crime.

  203. 203.

    RaflW

    Still not totally excused for his past work with the GOP, but Michael Steele has become a pretty sharp critic.

    @MichaelSteele
    Remember, November is not about governing, it’s about retribution. #vote

    @GOPLeader McCarthy
    Attorney General Garland: preserve your documents and clear your calendar.

  204. 204.

    jonas

    @zhena gogolia: Hannity: If you are associated with Donald Trump in any way, you better cross all your i’s and dot all your t’s

    “Excuse me. There’s a knock at my door…”

  205. 205.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I was interested to hear Jackie Allemany, Washington Post reporter, say that one of the documents in question seems to be one of the infamous “love letters” from Kim Jong-Un.

    The Beast was always freakin’ weird about those. He insisted people read them, but he never published them, which surprises me

  206. 206.

    Narya

    Chuck Rosenberg was saying that they’d take this step if they knew things were missing AND they didn’t trust TFG to not destroy them or to return them.

  207. 207.

    Another Scott

    @HumboldtBlue: Nothing at Justice.gov/news yet, either.

    The world of reporters which thinks that they have the need to have justice and the government work at Twitter speed must be apoplectic.

    All in good time… :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  210. 210.

    Frankensteinbeck

    God damn, conservatives are losing their shit.  I’ve never seen anything like this, at least in scope.  The whining and variations on “I’m going to get my daddy to beat you up!” are a tidal wave of toddler tantrum tears.

  211. 211.

    Ken

    @mrmoshpotato: Sean (Individual 3?)

    I’m a little confused because of all the places where TFG is listed as Individual 1.  I’m wanting to say that Hannity was involved with the lawyer who was paying off porn stars to keep quiet, and maybe paying for a few abortions???

  213. 213.

    Gravenstone

    @Starfish: You could respond to basically everything she tweets “you are an extraordinarily stupid person” and have it be true.

  215. 215.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Kaitlan Collins @kaitlancollins
    News — In early June, investigators made a rare visit to Mar-a-Lago seeking more info about material taken from the White House. The 4 officials, including Jay Bratt, chief of Counterintelligence & Export Control at DOJ, met w/ two of Trump’s attorneys. Trump stopped by briefly.

    Investigators asked to see where docs were stored. Trump’s attorneys took them to a basement room and they looked around before leaving. Days later, Trump’s attorneys got a letter asking them to further secure the room. Aides subsequently added a padlock, I am told.

  216. 216.

    eversor

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Those burn bags with chain of custody, shredded, then incinerated.  Also chain of custody on who opens any damn safe at any time.   All drives removed and put in safes.  Lockers for phones and other stuff.  Disabled USB anything or bluetooth.

    But then again, Trump was using a private cell phone!  Now there does exist a SLES style hyper secure android phone that you can self create, beyond Trump of course but there are more than a few people here who could.  Then there is the souped up NSA version of this same thing or a hardened blackberry but he refused those.

    I’m sure their actual “computer” security was just as sloppy but this entire thing is a parade of fail, bad, and stupid.  But that’s what you get when you shitcan professionals for nebulous reasons (always called “performance”) and then hire up a bunch of yes men or contractors that will tell  you what you want to hear.  I once lost a job for BIOS nuking and then passwording USB and bluetooth ports on laptops due to them being deployed overseas.  People didn’t like it, also hated the RSA authenticator and encryption.  So I was out a few a months later a scandal hit the place and I was offered back and no, just, no.

    People that don’t know, just don’t know.  The typical version now is “macs don’t get virus” nonsense which LOL, just LOL.

    Also nobody likes the INFOSEC guy.  You have to be a pitbull to do it and it will get people mad.  “Why am I not allowed” always ends badly.

  217. 217.

    prostratedragon

    @Baud:  Guest on Rachel (Rosenberg? Memory getting old) suggested that it might mean DOJ does not trust TFG to voluntarily hand over documents that might be sensitive to national security. They could have subpoenaed, but chose to search directly. So if he has stuff that’s sensitive enough to trigger a precautionary action, might make more believable that the docs are the main point for now.

  218. 218.

    eversor

    @RSA:

    It doesn’t have to be classified to be a crime.  The destruction is the crime.  The classification and records hold placed on it is just the scale of it.

  220. 220.

    eversor

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    He wouldn’t use a fucking approved phone.  Now, this get’s into “but Hillary did it” and yeah, and she should not have.  But not for everything.  And everyone else who did when cell tech and smart phones were new god fucking damn knew well enough that you have “your device” and then “the device they set up to me” and you don’t cross the streams.

     

    They are morons, all up and down on all of this.  “mycrimes.jpeg” or “I have icloud” are not the halmarks of competent people.

  221. 221.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Mark Levin sounds like an angry Jets fan ranting on the radio.  Currently losing it on hannity.

  223. 223.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    The Intercept’s Chief Tara Reade Correspondent has Concerns

    Ryan Grim @ryangrim · 21m

    I think there are a lot of crimes you could lock Trump up for but classified documents? That sets a precedent that could lock up most former senior white house aides.

  224. 224.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @Baud: I know someone in federal law enforcement who thinks that someone flipped, as they would have been able to get a search warrant for the classified documents a long time ago.

  225. 225.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken:

    I’m wanting to say that Hannity was involved with the lawyer who was paying off porn stars to keep quiet, and maybe paying for a few abortions??? 

    Maybe.  I’m not in the mood to look it up, and Hannity can go fuck himself.

  226. 226.

    Ruckus

    @Josie:

    I was very glad to see Nixon resign.

    This is different. Nixon knew he was guilty from the get go. He knew the limitations of the job and he did crap anyway.

    SFB thinks he can do no wrong, never has, never will for he’s the perfect human, just ask him. He believes that no matter what he’s done, it is his right to do that. Because he’s president for life, just ask him.

    He’s been a massive jackass his entire existence because he believes he can do no wrong, just ask him.

  227. 227.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    God damn, conservatives are losing their shit. I’ve never seen anything like this, at least in scope. The whining and variations on “I’m going to get my daddy to beat you up!” are a tidal wave of toddler tantrum tears. 

    Hahaha!  Savor it.

  228. 228.

    eversor

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    An organization that has an interesting in stealing information.  Again, the removal, copying, altering, destruction, is the issue.  The classification of it is just how bad it was.  But you do not do this.

  231. 231.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Le Brandón Sinistre @agraybee 56m

    It’s easy to make fun of Republicans flipping their shit, but I would argue that them railing against the FBI is more logically sound than railing against their own party for not preventing this with magic.

  235. 235.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Another Scott: ​ 

    I just had a quick exchange with a friend on Twitter who was banging on Schumer declining to talk about the issue in any way. I told her I was with Chuck on this one, there is nothing he can add that wouldn’t be used as fodder for the Trump fever swamp and that this is just day one, there will be plenty of time to comment in the coming weeks and months.

  236. 236.

    jonas

    @prostratedragon: ​ Not a L or NATSec guy or anything, but if this is really about the top secret material Trump absconded with, it could be the FBI became concerned that whatever it was had been, or was about to be, compromised and that the only way to secure it was to send in the Feds. The National Archives raise the alarm last year about classified stuff Trump had taken with him, but I don’t recall if any action about it was taken at that time. It didn’t seem to set off major alarm bells. Perhaps this is related to stuff the NA *didn’t* know about and that the FBI/CIA only realized was compromised because they overheard some Chinese intelligence people or whoever boasting about having acquired some serious shit from MaL.​

  237. 237.

    different-church-lady

    @HumboldtBlue: I would hope that in a functional version of our democracy the FBI and justice department would be independent from the senate.

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    “And I hope that everyone dumb enough to vote for that lowlife thug motherfucker feels my intense ridicule.”

    If they could feel intense ridicule they wouldn’t have voted for SFB in the first place. He only offers 3 points for some shithead to vote for him, his total incompetence, his ability to bullshit and his racism. They like him because he’s one of them but says the stupid shit out loud.

  239. 239.

    jonas

    @HumboldtBlue: ​
      That’s absolutely right. Dem leaders need to completely STFU about anything related to this, save for a “let the legal process take its course” comment or whatever. The pundits and twitterati and whoever can feel free to pile the fuck on, but politicians need to stay out of this and let the professionals do their thing. In other words, the complete opposite of what the Trumpists would do. Less cathartic, to be sure, but the right thing in the long run.

  242. 242.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Schooley @Rschooley 2h

    Fox News seems like they prepared for this like the BBC has the plan for when the Queen dies.

  246. 246.

    Ken

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ryan Grim: That sets a precedent that could lock up most former senior white house aides.

    Only the ones who have broken the law.

    (Is that difficult to understand? I’m not having trouble with it, but there seem to be a bunch of people who are. The same could be said of the earlier thread about the IRS adding staff — it’s not a problem for anyone who pays their taxes.)

  249. 249.

    jonas

    @Ken: ​
     

    but there seem to be a bunch of people who are. The same could be said of the earlier thread about the IRS adding staff — it’s not a problem for anyone who pays their taxes.

    Just think of it as a kind of “stop and frisk” policy for tax scofflaws! Supposed to work wonders for law enforcement. Or so I’ve heard.

  250. 250.

    Geoduck

    If it hasn’t already been mentioned.. you know it’s bad when even Lindsey Graham is attempting to put some distance between himself and the Shiatgibbon.

  253. 253.

    Wapiti

    @jonas: Hell, when I left the Army I went through my house and collected up about 40-50 black skillcraft pens that had migrated over a decade and dropped them off at the office. Classified information? Not no but hell no.

  255. 255.

    Ramona

    I am so sorry for your loss but so glad you have this opportunity to imagine her glee at this development. It must feel bitter-sweet.

  256. 256.

    Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nobody remembers Sandy Berger.

    But it’s relevant to my comment above. There are classified documents that the DOJ will not go to the wall over. That’s how policies work – you need to have a policy that you can enforce as robustly as you can imagine needing to, and you can be lenient on that policy if it seems suitable. But if you don’t have the policy, you can’t make it up once that moment you imagined comes to pass.

    You only go to the wall like this if the documents were immediately relevant (not like most of the previous thefts which were of civil war era documents with the intent to sell them) and if Trump refused to return them. Any staffer that did that would be doing 5-10 at club fed.

  259. 259.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Martin: Lawrence O’Donnell brought up Berger. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor, got probation and lost his law license.

    That was a strange and sad case

  260. 260.

    sdhays

    I wonder if the transcript of the conversation with Zelensky that trigger the first Impeachment was in Tramp’s safe.

  261. 261.

    Wapiti

    @Martin: former presidents routinely have access to classified documents. They are permanently entrusted with classified information.

    I don’t think that’s true in Trump’s case. Because a former president may be helpful as an advisor, they have typically been given clearance and access to the daily briefings. GHWBush was apparently very serious about the post presidency role. But my understanding is that Biden did not extend this to TFG; suggesting TFG was seen as less than useless for advice.

  265. 265.

    bbleh

    I keep coming back to the IMMEDIACY.  Why would they seek a no-notice warrant, and why would a magistrate grant one?  (And also, why at MAL only, instead of all his playpens?)  IANAL, but aren’t these warrants supposed to be pretty specific?  Why there and why now?

    Just recovering documents for the archives — even if they’re classified, and even if he’s been stonewalling — just doesn’t seem to me like it would clear the bar for an FBI raid on a former President.

    And if he was, eg, trying to sell them, or they were being stolen from under his nose, oh my …

  266. 266.

    Ken

    @Wapiti: Biden did not extend this to TFG; suggesting TFG was seen as less than useless for advice.

    Advice, obviously, but it could have been an excellent channel for feeding Putin false information.

  268. 268.

    jonas

    @Martin: ​
     

    . I suspect the *contents* of the classified docs are what makes this special and there’s not really been any indication of the contents of the classified docs removed, but

    I think that’s probably the case. Either the FBI became aware that he was having docs related to 1/6 destroyed, or, as I wrote above, that other NatSec stuff he absconded with when he left the WH had been leaked/compromised. I thought that stuff had been secured and repossessed by the National Archives Administration, but maybe there was some stuff he still hid and which is now in the hands of an unfriendly nation. Just a civilian spitballing here. But the takeaway is that for the FBI to raid the residence of a former president, ostensibly because of classified documents he was still hiding there, is a BFD.

  273. 273.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    J-L Cauvin @JLCauvin 3h

    If a sexual assaulting tax cheat who tries to blackmail a foreign leader and instigate a coup can have a legal search warrant executed on his home, are any of us really safe?

  274. 274.

    JaneE

    I remember speculation when the boxes of records were recovered and the classified documents were discovered as part of the hoard that selling that information was not out of the realm of possibility for TFG. I wonder if the FBI is investigating something of that level of seriousness.

    Did the GOP really think they could win political points by putting a genuine crook into the presidency? Because if he was selling secrets to anyone, that is not something that will go over well in suburbia or anywhere outside the cult.

  276. 276.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    DarkTimesHat @Popehat
    /19 The more I think about it, the more I suspect recent, highly actionable intelligence, possibly from a cooperator, drove this and its timing. The need for freshness — proof that the evidence is there NOW — is key.

    /20 I keep coming back to this: based on the stuff they HAVEN’T gone after, either this is the greatest overplayed hand ever or there is something very dramatic we don’t know about.

    Interesting points. I don’t think Merrick Garland is one to overplay a hand, or bluff.

  277. 277.

    Feathers

    I admit my quiet fantasy is that we start seeing a queue of former Trump admin bozos, from cabinet to admins, getting hauled in for having lied on their security clearances.

    This will more than do for now.

  279. 279.

    RaflW

    @Jay C: Already sold and paid for, more likely.

    The guy has notorious cashflow problems, and even with the sanctions (or maybe even moreso because of them) his Russian loan sharks are going to want to get paid.
    One way to pay them, if you’re a total crook? Offer them some nat sec documents. Yes, he’s that dumb and possibly that desperate.

  280. 280.

    Chris Johnson

    I think someone flipped and said, “He keeps all of his instructions from Putin, from the very beginning. Here is where they are. Not making this up”

    Probably Cipollone, with his ‘you have to make me reveal what I know in exactly, but exactly, the right way, otherwise I will just invoke privilege until we all die of old age’. Someone flipped who had their shit extremely together and knew what they had. A lot of people have had to hang in there until they were certain they could move.

    A lot of people are moving right NOW when they didn’t yesterday or the day before.

    I bet you it’s about how Trump was run out of Russia, somehow. I bet it is purely treason, totally beyond anything about malfeasance with classified papers.

    And I bet part of the conditions for this happening are: certain Republicans, like McConnell, who were in it with him, have been given assurances they’ll be allowed to pretend like they weren’t guilty too.

    Maybe it WAS McConnell setting this up. Fucked if I know, but this is amazing :)

  281. 281.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Josh Marshall is thinking teh same way

    Josh Marshall @joshtpm 37m

    The fact that this raid took place suggests there’s more to this than we’re being told. Something more than the 15 boxes, or more than just he took them and then sent them back. Otherwise I just doubt this DOJ wld choose this as …
    4/ the first aggressive and public actions against a former President.

  283. 283.

    Tony G

    @brantl: For the past 48 years it’s been my opinion that Gerald Ford was a bigger criminal than Richard Nixon, because Ford pardoned Nixon.  That was a loud, blaring announcement that powerful people do not have to pay for their crimes, and powerful people took heed.  A despicable act by Ford.  The fact that Ford had a reputation as a “moderate Republican” just illustrates the deep corruption of the Republican Party that dates back more than a half-century.

  284. 284.

    Sasha

    The one thing that would make this perfect is if the raid was approved based on intel from Alex Jones’s phone.

  285. 285.

    JoyceH

    BTW, when people claim the raid was political, answer is that if it were, would have been on Tues or Wed- they would have let the Dems have one weekday’s news cycle to brag up their big bill and loudly point out that the Repubs killed the insulin cap. Garland stepped all over Schumer’s headlines.

  286. 286.

    JeffH

    @Sasha: And to be honest, I think it very well might have something to do with Jones’ phone. It’s awfully fast after that came to light, but if they turned up something that was serious and made them believe something important was about to be destroyed (or sold) they probably would move fast.

  289. 289.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    @BruceFromOhio: I imagine that the silence from our “main stream media” will be profound.

    After all, only Democratic people seem to have agency in the “MSM” mind.

  290. 290.

    Shalimar

    @jonas: Not classified documents, but I always go back to that picture of Navarro in the White House driveway loading a painting into the trunk of his car on the last day of the administration.   They all took off with whatever they wanted, and nothing has been done about it.

    As far as Trump goes, I think the key info is they went into his safe.  The National Archives material was in a padlocked room.  To go into the safe, the warrant would have specified that something specific was in the safe.  Whatever they were seeking was not the classified documents he admitted having.

  291. 291.

    Shalimar

    @JeffH: I would be surprised if it has anything to do with Jones.  His phone is a wealth of information about a multitude of crimes, but it’s hard to imagine he was such a close Trump confidant that he would have info on incriminating documents Trump was keeping at Mar-a-Lago.  It’s more likely that a current Trump employee is cooperating and gave up the information that led to the warrant.

  293. 293.

    Steeplejack

    @Popehat (DarkTimesHat): “Anyway this will be fascinating to watch unless we collapse into violence and civil war and stuff.”

    “Me at Little Round Top: Oh wow interesting Chamberlain is doing a bayonet charge, that’s very rare but something they teach, did you know that the manufacturers of the Union’s bayonets include 1/67”

    And underneath someone commented: “@threadreaderapp unroll.” There is no thread—it’s a joke!

    Comments are funny.

    “It’s not a bayonet charge. A bayonet charge is . . .”

    “Well, actually . . .”

  295. 295.

    Steeplejack

    As I absorb all of the coverage, one thing struck me: some talking head on Fox was ranting about why did they have to use these jackbooted-thug tactics, what are they going to get that they couldn’t get with subpoenas, etc., etc.? Well, asshole, Trump—like all of the other right-wing shitbirds—routinely ignores subpoenas or challenges them in court for months or years. A jackbooted-thug raid conveniently gets around all of that.

    And “Oh noes, unlawful attack on a political rival”—do any of these shitbirds even remember “Lock her up!” At the Republican convention even, for chrissakes.

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