Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

It’s a doggy dog world.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

The new temporary speaker of the house is a spiteful little shit.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

… looking like a winsome Bee Gee who has stumbled into teaching geography

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

A consequence of cucumbers

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

How are Republicans going to find someone with more charisma and personal charm than Jim Jordan?

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Let’s finish the job.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

I was promised a recession.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

Fani Willis claps back at Trump chihuahua, Jim Jordan.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Of Course Trump Kept the Glengarry Leads

Of Course Trump Kept the Glengarry Leads

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From the Post:

Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Experts in classified information said the unusual search underscores deep concern among government officials about the types of information they thought could be located at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and potentially in danger of falling into the wrong hands.

“Falling into the wrong hands” LOL. Those fucking documents weren’t going to “fall” or be “misplaced”. Trump was going to sell or trade them. It looks like what happened is that Trump first turned over some documents voluntarily, then he was subpoenaed for some more, then a little bird told the FBI that there were still more documents, so they executed a search warrant and carried them away. I’ll bet there are some more documents squirreled away in his laundry hamper or hidden under one of his packages of adult diapers.

I’d like to think that this will hurt Republicans, especially those who came out with their “defund the FBI” bullshit, but watching the immense gullibility and ignorance of the so-called liberal press makes me think that whatever the next round of horseshit that Republicans dream up to cover up for this massive, unprecedented security breach will be eagerly lapped up by Maggie Haberman and other book writers who have hitched their wagon to Trump.

Still, this motherfucker was never going to keep just the Patels, and I think he’s in deep trouble.

Reader Interactions

227Comments

  2. 2.

    Lyrebird

    Could you fill in what you mean about keeping just the Patels?  I know of Kash Patel, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.

    Thanks for a great post as well!

  4. 4.

    Tinare

    If I were writing a fiction novel like this, I’d write in a tip off of a deal being discussed for a sale of the documents at a Saudi sponsored golf tournament at the former President’s golf club causing the warrant to be issued…

  5. 5.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    I’d like to think that this will hurt Republicans, especially those who came out with their “defund the FBI” bullshit, but watching the immense gullibility and ignorance of the so-called liberal press makes me think that whatever the next round of horseshit that Republicans dream up to cover up for this massive, unprecedented security breach will be eagerly lapped up by Maggie Haberman and other book writers who have hitched their wagon to Trump.

    It’s nuclear secrets, as in nuclear weapons, if true. It doesn’t get more stark or simple than that, imo. That can’t be defended or justified. What the hell would he need with them?

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The motherfucker (to borrow and apt turn of word from Beto) is guilty, guilty, GUILTY! (to borrow three words from Marc Slackmeyer).

  7. 7.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Trump was going to sell or trade them.

    There are two things I am sure of.  First, this is going to be stupid.  Second, Trump is panicking about this in a way he almost never does over scandals.  I certainly can see ‘Trump kept whole boxes of nuclear secrets because it made him feel like he’s still president’ fitting those two requirements.

  8. 8.

    moonbat

    I’m praying that they had MAL bugged or at least had willing eyes telling them who was coming and going.

    I’m also praying Putin kicks the bucket before he can make use of whatever Trump passed to him. Because you know he passed SOMETHING.

  12. 12.

    insert clever nickname here mistermix

    @Lyrebird:

    Could you fill in what you mean about keeping just the Patels?  I know of Kash Patel, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.

    It’s from a scene in Glengarry Glen Ross.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIel6cBzQkI  Warning: lots of profanity, but the idea is that Patel leads are worthless and Glengarry leads are the best.

  13. 13.

    MagdaInBlack

    There is twitter speculation about the contents of Ivana’s casket, seeing as how she was cremated. The trumps are such a bunch of freaks, I’m willing to to entertain that possibility that it’s full of stolen documents.

    Sorry if this has been mentioned, I’m just catching up on my blogs.

  14. 14.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    It looks like what happened is that Trump first turned over some documents voluntarily, then he was subpoenaed for some more,

    What’s more, is he ignored that grand jury subpoena. Lawyers, what happens when normal people try to ignore grand jury subpoenas?

  15. 15.

    moonbat

    In a single day I’ve gone from cheering the FBI on for getting this material secure to ready to scream at them, “Why did you wait so long?!”

    No need to treat this ass with kid gloves. He tried to overthrow the government for christsakes. I am SURE the Biden people had the smarts to change every code the second they took office, but nuclear  secrets? That’s not the kind of stuff you just leave in the hands of the most feckless, venal man ever to hold the office for a year and a half.

    EVERYONE in the inner circle of Trump’s administration needs to go to jail.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @moonbat: The codes change regularly every 24 hours in the first place.  However, information on deployment, technical specs, stuff like that does not, and that’s most likely what is involved.

  23. 23.

    Repatriated

    @moonbat:

    but nuclear  secrets? That’s not the kind of stuff you just leave in the hands of the most feckless, venal man ever to hold the office. 

    FISA taps on everyone. Secret Service on site that Trump trusts. Covert agents embedded in the staff. Docs probably subverted/disinfo as well.

    Highest-stakes honeypot ever.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    @Tinare: a deal being discussed for a sale of the documents at a Saudi sponsored golf tournament at the former President’s golf club

    Or maybe the batch of documents he voluntarily returned in June includes the letters from Kim Jong-Un, and he forgot that one of them said:

    “Thanks for the nuclear bomb designs! And I’m thinking about that trade you offered, plutonium for the exclusive right to build a luxury casino-hotel in Pyongyang! Hugs from your fave dictator!”

  28. 28.

    Rory Montana

    If they can’t prove he was going to sell them this is going to turn into a debate about overdue library books and he’s going to walk.

  31. 31.

    prostratedragon

    Brian Beutler reminisces.
    I always thought that DOJ wanted to go as big as possible, and that assembling the means to do so, not tone calculations or whatever people were talking about, was the reason things were taking so long. Looks like we’re about to find out. If this news bears out, it might carry with it a need to act pretty soon.
    “Michaelangelo 70,” Piazzolla

  32. 32.

    patrick II

    It often seems like dealing with a five year old boundary testing more than having rationa! motives

  33. 33.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @moonbat: I’m also praying Putin kicks the bucket before he can make use of whatever Trump passed to him. Because you know he passed SOMETHING.

    Somebody tell me if they also remember this sequence of events:

    Trump takes office.

    Makes the first of his many unrecorded calls to Putin.

    Next day, a bunch of highly-placed people in Russia are accused of being CIA assets, rounded up with bags over their heads and taken off (presumably to be executed).

  34. 34.

    Sebastian

    I am just saying that Ivana was cremated but then buried in a casket and ten (!) pall bearers struggled to carry the casket.

    If I were the Feds I would dig up that grave and check the contents of that grave.

  36. 36.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jonathan Chait @jonathanchait 19m

    We’re in that short, golden period when anti-anti-Trumpers disappear from Twitter, awaiting their new talking points.

    the silence of the Lowry

    ETA: they had fallen off my radar before we had never-trumpers and anti-antis, but if I had been asked to bet years ago, I would’ve gotten it exactly backwards which side of the line Rich Lowry and Jonah Goldberg would land on

  39. 39.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I think it comes down to Meadows, Ivanka or Jared.  Jared because his daddy went to prison and so has an idea how this stuff works. He’ also a self entitled prick with a law degree. Ivanka because daddy is close to eighty and a good chance he will kick the bucket before he gets to do any time, while chances are she’s got another 50 years of life to live and doesn’t want to spend any of that time in prison. Meadows because he’s about as stupid as TFG and was in on everything. Cippolone doesn’t seem like he was in TFG’s inner inner circle.

  40. 40.

    Ken

    @David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: He just became radioactive

    Metaphorically, or does the tracking system for these documents include tracer isotopes?

    (I was watching an old Adam West “Batman” a couple of days ago, and they were putting radioactive Bat-Spray on something so they could track it from a couple miles away. Uh, dynamic duo, if it’s that active you just killed yourselves…)

  43. 43.

    Ken

    @patrick II: It often seems like dealing with a five year old boundary testing

    Remember the Cheney Doctrine: He’s in his seventies, stop using excuses you wouldn’t accept for a five-year-old.

  44. 44.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @patrick II: Olivia Nuzzi once described trump’s odd speech as “at once sinister and child-like”. It applies to so many aspects of The Beast

  45. 45.

    Baud

    Reddit comment

    There was something about our nuclear capabilities that Trump always wanted to publicly brag about, but obviously couldn’t. From one of Bob Woodward’s books:

     

    In the midst of reflecting upon how close the United States had come in 2017 to war with North Korea, Trump revealed: “I have built a nuclear — a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before. We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before. There’s nobody — what we have is incredible.”

     

    Woodward was able to confirm that we had built some kind of secret nuclear weapon system, but, unsurprisingly, couldn’t get any details beyond that. He did note that the people he confirmed it with were very surprised that Trump had disclosed that information to Woodward. You know it eats Trump up inside that he can’t – or isn’t supposed to – talk about things like this, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he snagged some documents related to the program that he uses to show off to friends. He could also be selling the information to the highest bidder, who knows. Can’t really rule anything out when it comes to Trump.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Rory Montana:

    If they can’t prove he was going to sell them this is going to turn into a debate about overdue library books and he’s going to walk.

    Classified government documents, especially nuclear secrets, are not the same as “overdue library books”

  47. 47.

    Ken

    @zhena gogolia: А вы в Москве или в Петербурге?

    I’m half expecting Trump will be in one of them tomorrow, and a hell of a lot of people in Congress and on Fox will be flailing for a way to disassociate themselves from him.

    (I humbly suggest that they give away all their worldly possessions, take a vow of silence, and enter a religious order where they will hoe a vegetable garden and flagellate themselves for the rest of their lives.)

  48. 48.

    Kristine

    @Sebastian:

    If I were the Feds I would dig up that grave and check the contents of that grave.

    Is there some way to scan the contents–sonar, GPR–to see if there’s a body present w/o digging?

  49. 49.

    Poe Larity

    Nukular secrets are so antwacky. At least he could have squirreled away all those Benghazi docs in case Hillary runs in 2024.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    Woodward was able to confirm that we had built some kind of secret nuclear weapon system, … You know it eats Trump up inside that he can’t – or isn’t supposed to – talk about things like this, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he snagged some documents related to the program that he uses to show off to friends.

    Wow.

  51. 51.

    Scout211

    Of course, nuclear secrets missing is a serious, but did you know that the SHARPIE PEN MAP IS MISSING!!?!

    😂

    The link goes to a nice timeline explainer on CNN.com, beginning in May of 2021 when the National Archives started asking for missing documents. (Like the sharpie map).

  52. 52.

    Baud

    If Trump stole nuclear secrets, I can’t even imagine the types of things Hillary had done.

  53. 53.

    WV Blondie

    The Reichwing’s new talking point is that TFG declassified them. The problem with that argument is that he/his lawyers would have already told the National Archives (the agency this whole thing started with). And he would have whined to Faux Noise or OAN about it.

  54. 54.

    Tony G

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That’s right, of course.  But our “liberal media” (The New York Times, NPR, etc.) will probably treat this like “overdue library books”.  (Unlike Hillary Clinton’s “email crimes”.)

  56. 56.

    eldorado

    i’m old enough to remember just yesterday when ‘the daily’ had maggie on for an extended segment that talked a lot about a ‘raid’ and ‘descended’ and ‘searched the premises’ but somehow managed to not mention anything about a warrant

  58. 58.

    hueyplong

    I’m reading this stuff and am horrified by the realization that any of them could be true, and that the more idiotic the scenario, the more likely it is that that’s the one.

    I’ve moved beyond Schadenfreude to Brando contemplating a worm on a straight razor, i.e., no longer enjoying it.

  59. 59.

    mrmoshpotato

    Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Regardless of what comes of this ongoing shitshow, congrats to all of the stupid, selfish shitstains who screamed, “Fuck you, Hillary!” with their ballots.

  60. 60.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @WV Blondie: There’s also a rather elaborate physical process that takes place when you declassify documents that I doubt very much TFG had the attention span to follow.

  61. 61.

    cain

    I can imagine that a lot of people are going to be interviewed in regards to who had access to those documents. This is going to be a pretty big deal – GOP people grandstanding on this is going to not only look bad, but could be criminal.

    A lot of people are going to be in big trouble if they were exposed to that box of documents.

    I’m kind of thinking that it’s going to be like raiders of the lost ark when they open the ark and shit goes downhill from there.

  63. 63.

    RSA

    For context:

    Information may be classified “Top Secret” if its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security. This classification should be used with the utmost restraint. Examples of “exceptionally grave damage” include armed hostilities against the United States or its allies; disruption of foreign relations vitally affecting the national security; the compromise of vital national defense plans or complex cryptologic and communications intelligence systems; the revelation of sensitive intelligence operations; and the disclosure of scientific or technological developments vital to national security.

    Confidential information would cause “damage” and secret information would cause “serious damage” if publicly available. Top secret? Exceptionally grave damage. This is drilled into government employees in annual training. No one in their right mind treats it lightly.

  69. 69.

    Scout211

    @cain: From the CNN timeline.

    “someone who served in the White House counsel’s office under Trump, who was the point of contact for recordkeeping matters.”

    Patsy Baloney?

    An official from NARA contacts Trump’s team after realizing that several important documents weren’t handed over before Trump left the White House. In hopes of locating the missing items, NARA lawyer Gary Stern reaches out to someone who served in the White House counsel’s office under Trump, who was the point of contact for recordkeeping matters. The missing documents include some of Trump’s correspondence with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as well as the map of Hurricane Dorian that Trump infamously altered with a sharpie pen.

  70. 70.

    different-church-lady

    @cain:

    A lot of people are going to be in big trouble if they were exposed to that box of documents.

    The documents themselves are nuclear?

  71. 71.

    Bill Arnold

    @WV Blondie:

    The Reichwing’s new talking point is that TFG declassified them.

    Ah, but J. Biden reclassified them shortly after taking office, using … a similar procedure.

  72. 72.

    Ken

    @cain: I can imagine that a lot of people are going to be interviewed in regards to who had access to those documents.

    Apparently, anyone wandering around Mar-a-Lago, at least up until they put a padlock on the room with the file boxes of nuclear secrets.

    The one bright spot is that we know the security at Mar-a-Lago is very strict: your check has to clear before your wedding party is given the run of the place.

  73. 73.

    PPCLI

    This is a time when my mind wanders back over all the pictures of Trump desperately currying favor with Russians. The laugh-fest with Lavrov and that Pillsbury dough boy ambassador. Eager-puppy-style trying to catch Putin’s eye at dinner and making that frantic hand gesture “Look at me! Want to have a chat, like pals?” And of course Trumpie’s gloomy whipped dog walk, a half stride behind Putin doing his best the strutting banty rooster imitation.

    That guy would do anything to impress his hero.

  74. 74.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @RSA: I held a TS, but I never actually read a TS document, never had a need to know, only got the clearance so I could be put on a roster of officers for nuclear related duties.  I did see a TS cover sheet, once.  That’s as close as I got.  And yes this shit is drilled into you.  Omnes, for example, would know all about that sort of thing, in the Field Artillery you had to be TS to deal with nuke stuff.

  77. 77.

    JanieM

    @zhena gogolia:

     I don’t believe Jared has a law degree.

    It is kind of hard to believe, but according to Wikipedia it’s true:

    Kushner enrolled in the joint–J.D./M.B.A. program at New York University School of Law and New York University Stern School of Business, and graduated with both degrees in 2007. Kushner interned at Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau‘s office, and with the New York law firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison.[26]

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    For eyes only:

    In the past few hours many of us have watched the discussion regarding classified documents & their appropriate storage.Since like most senior officers I had some experience in this area, I thought it would be helpful to provide some BASIC info.So, this new 🧵is born! 1/21— Mark Hertling (@MarkHertling) August 12, 2022

  83. 83.

    Chetan Murthy

    @PPCLI: As we all know, retroactive classification of public domain material is a thing.  So retroactive reclassification would par for the course.

  85. 85.

    CaseyL

    Hate to rain on everyone’s parade, but the only source we have for this story is an anonymous one talking to WaPo.

    And considering how the MSM loves to hit Warp 7 if they have a scoop, I’m guessing there was no effort to find a second source, or get confirmation of any kind.

  86. 86.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Why?

    I mean, this is all a far, far cry from email server management practices.

     

    Dear god, I hope every last media dope who piled on Hillary gets their twitter feeds DROWNED in scorn.

  89. 89.

    Chris T.

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Lawyers, what happens when normal people try to ignore grand jury subpoenas?

    IANAL (and also, I am not a lawyer), but as I understand it, the usual thing is that the judge issues a bench warrant. This means the person is now subject to arrest. Depending on the reason for the subpoena and how fast one’s lawyers can tap-dance, you can get the bench warrant deferred or even quashed by spending enough time, effort, and money.

  90. 90.

    JaySinWA

    @Sebastian:

    If I were the Feds I would dig up that grave and check the contents of that grave.

    I would guess that would be a great hiding place for physical stuff that was looted, like gifts that wouldn’t deteriorate. It seems less likely they’d stash documents there, but maybe

    ETA how many reams of paper can you fit in a coffin and how much would it weigh?

  93. 93.

    moonbat

    You know, sometimes I wonder whether the right wing nut jobs come to this blog to harvest their next talking points.

    Something Baud throws out as a joke I’ll see a day later as a straight-faced explanation on the Twitter machine.

  94. 94.

    Bill Arnold

    Trump’s cover story will be that this is related to development of defenses against the Chinese Hurricane Gun, but really, it was about weapons like (cough) the HAARP-steered Cassaba Howitzer.generated[1] nuclear plasma bolt, for defense against aliens. Eat Hot Nuclear Plasma, Alien Spacecraft!

    Or, he’s fucked, if the search found any such documents.
    [1] Sorry, http link ’cause their cert is broken.

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    Wow.

    Trump revealed: “I have built a nuclear — a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before.”

    He built it all by himself with his tiny, tiny hands.

  102. 102.

    Princess Leia

    @CaseyL: ​
      Thank you for pointing this out- could be a strategy to make anything less bad look like a nothingburger.

  103. 103.

    moonbat

    @geg6: I sincerely hope they do. I’ve read conflicting reports that they were seeking but had not yet secured them.

  106. 106.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Sheesh. I am afraid the classified information may already be in Russian/Chinese/Israeli hands.

  107. 107.

    TS

    @CaseyL:

    WaPo says more than one source

    Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking,

    Whether “they” spoke to the Post separately or together is not discussed.

  108. 108.

    CaseyL

    @MisterForkbeard:

    @Princess Leia:

    If it turns out to be true, and if anyone (Saudis, Chinese) had a chance to so much as glance at the information, then… well, I can’t even imagine the shitstorm.

    @TS: Ah.  They did get confirmation.  Though I really, really dislike anonymous sources.  The MSM keeps using the ones who have lied to them.

  109. 109.

    Ken

    @moonbat: We’ve already seen it, but with Obama (“took 33 million pages of classified documents”), not Hillary Clinton.

    I suspect you’re right, though, and the RW noise machine will start talking about Hillary soon enough. Oh, the more sensible among them might not want people to be contrasting email server best practices with nuclear secrets; but the sensible have not been in charge of the right for some time.

  114. 114.

    Ksmiami

    @YY_Sima Qian: fucking execute him- trial, firing squad. Done. Bury his ashes by Ivana  or Bin Laden. And jail every single person in his inner circle that played a part.

  115. 115.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    Kash Patel says,  “Trump declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government that he thought the American public should have the right to read themselves,”

    Yet oddly enough we don’t know what these documents are, never mind what they say.

    Kash Patel, former aide to Devin Nunes. What kind of person is an aide to Devin Nunes?

    “Only the best…”  Gah.

  116. 116.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Spanky:

    I mean, it’s the New York Post and all, but you don’t usually use terms like “buried” and “laid to rest” when discussing the disposition of cremated remains. I actually haven’t seen anything, except here at BJ, to suggest Ivana was cremated. (Not that I’ve looked; didn’t really care until the speculation started about documents in the casket.)

  118. 118.

    Redshift

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Isn’t the Trump Razor that it’s always the stupidest explanation?

    That’s why I still think the most likely thing is he kept them to show off and make himself look important. Maybe Jared or someone else in his circle traded some for influence, but more likely the major risk is the many foreign spies who are club members getting a look at them for free, just by flattering him.

    That’s the stupidest explanation I can come up with that fits the facts. Maybe someone with more imagination can come up with something stupider.

  120. 120.

    Jay

    @JaySinWA:

    8 boxes of 8 reams, so 400lbs, not including the coffin.

    Some coffins are air tight and sealed against the elements and will stay intact for more than 50 years.

    the ones with bells and semaphores in case the occupant was buried alive went out of “style” in the 1920’s and were never adopted by Mob Bosses,….

  122. 122.

    Major Major Major Major

    @CaseyL: Also, “classified documents relating to nuclear weapons” could mean anything from “lucrative details of nuclear technology to the Saudis” to “satellite photos of North Korea’s launch sites” or whatever. Will definitely be waiting for any details at all, but meanwhile enjoying the takes!

    They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking, including whether it involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation. Nor did they say if such documents were recovered as part of the search.

    Alrighty then.

    Either way, still a big nasty felony!

  123. 123.

    MobiusKlein

    I’m thinking the word Sought leaves a lot of wiggle room.

    Not Found but looking if they might be some there. Might be one of twenty categories of classified info the were looking for.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I was dozing off while Bradley Moss was talking to Lawrence O’Donnell, but apparently nuclear secrets are a whole ‘nother kettle of fish, and the magic declassification wand doesn’t work in this case, due to the Atomic Energy Act

  125. 125.

    PaulWartenberg

    the way this story keeps escalating we’re going to find out trump actually traded some documents already to the Saudis in order to host that LIV tournament at his golf course.

  126. 126.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Josh Marshall @joshtpm

    ·
    You thought it was Jan 6 that would be his undoing. You thought it was the taxes. The perfect call. You never thought it would be the nuclear weapons schematics and yield simulations stored in the shoe wardrobe at Mar-a-lago.

    Just, wow.

  131. 131.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @PaulWartenberg:

    trump actually traded some documents already to the Saudis in order to host that LIV tournament at his golf course.

    We have it, the stupidest possible explanation.  Trump kept a bunch of nuclear secrets so he could feel like he’s still the president, like he still uses the presidential seal.  A year later, he brags about it to the Saudis.  They offer to let him host their tournament in exchange for friggin’ NUCLEAR SECRETS and Trump thinks this is great, so the FBI has to stop trying to handle this delicately and move in immediately to prevent the trade.

  132. 132.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Sebastian:

    I am just saying that Ivana was cremated but then buried in a casket and ten (!) pall bearers struggled to carry the casket.

    If I were the Feds I would dig up that grave and check the contents of that grave.

    Why would you hide your documents via a big flashy public ceremony instead of like, literally any other way?

  133. 133.

    NotMax

    Open Thread?

    What a despicable waste of protoplasm. Lies piled atop lies. (WaPo link.)

    A Virginia police officer who prosecutors say lied about his actions before, during and after the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot, including his military service and his marriage, was sentenced Thursday to 87 months in prison.

    Thomas Robertson and Jacob Fracker were members of the police department in the small western Virginia town of Rocky Mount when they joined the mob that stormed the Capitol. Both have since been fired. Source

  137. 137.

    different-church-lady

    @Redshift: I’ve got one even stupider:  he was convinced he’d be reinstated as president within a few weeks and took them for the day he’d be back in charge.

  138. 138.

    Ken

    @MobiusKlein: It’s also quite possible we won’t get confirmation of this immediately, or ever, even if Trump agrees to the release. The DOJ request for release notes that some redaction will be done for security purposes, and various people have said that even document titles can be classified.

    Still, a long list of black boxes, each implicitly saying “this is so secret we can’t even show you the title”, will have its own impact.

  139. 139.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @different-church-lady: ​

    he was convinced he’d be reinstated as president within a few weeks

    …you know what? This is the dipshit who believed Hillary’s secret server with her 30,000 deleted emails was in Ukraine, and the one who ate up all the conspiracy theories batshit Kraken Woman fed to him about the stolen election. Your theory is actually plausible.

  140. 140.

    Ken

    @Major Major Major Major: Why would you hide your documents via a big flashy public ceremony instead of like, literally any other way?

    It does provide some evidence for the theory that we’re in a fictional universe, with a not-very-good writing team. In this case they’re leaning on the “arrogance of evil sowing the seeds of its own destruction” trope.

  141. 141.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    This is the dipshit who believed Hillary’s secret server with her 30,000 deleted emails was in Ukraine 

    I’d forgotten about that particular dumbassery.  I don’t thank you for the reminder.

  142. 142.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken:

    It does provide some evidence for the theory that we’re in a fictional universe, with a not-very-good writing team. In this case they’re leaning on the “arrogance of evil sowing the seeds of its own destruction” trope. 

    We are living in a Scooby Doo episode then!  (No offense to the ridiculousness that was Scooby Dooby Doo.)

  143. 143.

    Shalimar

    @WV Blondie: Declassification is pretty easy to prove from the documents themselves.  They all have classification info on them.  If they are declassified, each document is marked as declassified.  It isn’t a magic spell where he can just do it instantly without going through the proper procedures.

  148. 148.

    Mike in DC

    The nuclear secrets–the crown jewels, as it were–are not something you take with you inadvertently or accidentally.  And certainly declining to return it twice, first when asked politely and again when subpoenaed, is indication of knowledge and intent.

    He should go to prison.  Lock him up.

  149. 149.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken:

    So someone’s going to rip Trump’s rubber face off, and we find out it was Hillary all along? 

    LMAO!

    Sadly, there most definitely are Trump trash schmucks who are waiting for that to actually happen.

  151. 151.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @mrmoshpotato: I’m guessing that was a tongue-in-cheek response to trump’s claim that the former First Courtesan’s wardrobe was be-rummaged.

  153. 153.

    Princess

    In addition to whatever he was going to sell, I’m sure there was stuff there he was using to blackmail people with.

  154. 154.

    Jay C

    @Shalimar:

    If they are declassified, each document is marked as declassified.  It isn’t a magic spell where he can just do it instantly without going through the proper procedures.

    Amazingly, I just read an NBC News piece featuring opinions by various ex-Trump-Admin assclowns making that exact argument – that the actual specified procedures for declassifying secret/sensitive government documents are more-or-less irrelevant: if Trump wanted to declassify them, his intentions (i.e. just thinking about it) was enough to render said documents, in effect, declassified; and never mind all the petty bureaucratic minutiae like, y’know, writing it down, getting approval, signing off on things, etc.: Trump’s *thoughts* on the docs was all that mattered.

     

    Seriously, they seem to actually believe this.

  156. 156.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    Dumbest Fox Chyron Ever  (seen on Jesse Waters’ show):

    “FBI Snoops Through Melania’s Closet”

    Of course the FBI searched the entire premises as authorized by the warrant. Including the closets.

    That’s SOP, but Jesse Watters is trying to create outrage by implying its not standard operating procedure. 

  159. 159.

    kalakal

    I just can’t get my head around this.

    I know he’s stupid but to take nuclear weapons secrets?!?!?! Organisms found in petri dishes aren’t that stupid.

    I wonder who actually selected the documents, I doubt TFGs ability to actually be able to distinguish between a top secret document and a bar tab.

    If this all checks out there will be hell to pay

  161. 161.

    eversor

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s still TS though.  I held a TSI SCI.

    Also WOW at what they got at the golf course.  Can we take him out back of the Pentagon and Old Yeller his ass then toss him in the Potomac yet?  Good fucking god he stole nuke shit?  If there was ever a reason to fucking field execute a jackass this has to be it.  I mean this is clearly hanging stuff, if not draw and quarter.

  162. 162.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: In another forum I follow, which boots right-wing bloviators but is tolerant of just about anything else, there was a lot of “but her emails” chortling followed by: “I’m more interested in those Honduran death squads she helped set up. Checkmate liberal pretending to be a leftist.”

    So yeah.

  164. 164.

    Bill

    @Villago Delenda Est: silly question but are these papers that can be run through the copier or PDFs that can be scanned to a thumb drive or highly encrypted files no one can open …what are we talking about here ??

  165. 165.

    Princess Leia

    TFG just posted that he is calling for the “immediate release” of the warrant docs. (Which he could do himself if he wanted to.)

  166. 166.

    leeleeFL

    @Major Major Major Major:  Because he’s Donald Fucking Trump, that’s why.  My next question would be, how did Ivana really die?  A fall just seems too simple, while a shove seems much more plausible…she wasn’t Jeffrey Epstein, but she knew things,  And a convenient funeral would give him a hidey hole, he’d think  God, I hate that MF.

  167. 167.

    Leto

    @Villago Delenda Est: Not really; I mean with all the compartmentalization we do (which is in the SCI name), it’s just part of the overall “TS” classification.

    A good refresher (which I posted in the thread below) would be: Basic Laws and Authorities

    Executive Order 12958 was amended on March 25, 2003, by Executive Order 13292, to read as follows:

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to further amend Executive Order 12958, as amended, it is hereby ordered that Executive Order 12958 is amended to read as follows:

    This order prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information, including information relating to defense against transnational terrorism. Our democratic principles require that the American people be informed of the activities of their Government. Also, our Nation’s progress depends on the free flow of information. Nevertheless, throughout our history, the national defense has required that certain information be maintained in confidence in order to protect our citizens, our democratic institutions, our homeland security, and our interactions with foreign nations. Protecting information critical to our Nation’s security remains a priority.

    NOW, THEREFORE, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

    I did this for too long, including nuclear stuff.

  168. 168.

    James E Powell

    I understand why it’s happening, but I hate the fact that during the week when Democrats could be dancing in the streets & singing about all the good they are doing with the latest giant sized legislation, the news is all Trump, all day, all night.

    I hate him, the political media, all Republicans, and everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016. In four equal-sized boxes of 100% pure hatred.

  171. 171.

    Bill Arnold

    @Jay C:

    if Trump wanted to declassify them, his intentions (i.e. just thinking about it) was enough to render said documents, in effect, declassified;

    The problem with this is that Biden, the actual President, surely preemptively re-classified with a thought everything that Trump improperly declassified with a thought. Biden didn’t need to tell anybody about this unorthodox reclassification of improperly declassified documents.
    Biden’s (boring center) Leftist Logic destroys Trump’s Wingnut Logic!

  172. 172.

    piratedan

    @kalakal: I have to believe that he’s STILL operating under the belief that since no one has ever truly thwarted him on anything that he REALLY wanted to do…. cheat on his taxes, he’s been doing that for decades… make incendiary racist statements in public, bingo… sexually assault any women that he chooses to… badda bing! Be a faux TV celebrity boosting his “business acumen”, zing!

    got impeached twice, so he suffered some bad press, no consequences; led a coup attempt… hell, he was golfing last weekend.  All this court shit, fine, he’s beat that shit before, believes he will again.

    He thinks he fucking golden and based on his history… I can see why he believes it.

    all that shit is what ENDEARS him to the crowd, they all want to be him, to cut a swath thru it all and never have to pay for any of it.

  173. 173.

    kalakal

    And how many of the NYTs finest are now shredding the drafts of their forthcoming tomes in which they reveal how thanks to their toadying to the toad in chief heroic investigative skills they’ve known about this for 2 years but were just waiting for the most lucrative right time to cash in perform their patriotic duty and let the rest of us (and the authorities) in on the secret

  180. 180.

    Leto

    @Shalimar: @Jay C:

    Sec. 3.7. Declassification Database.

    (a) The Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, in conjunction with those agencies that originate classified information, shall coordinate the linkage and effective utilization of existing agency databases of records that have been declassified and publicly released.

    (b) Agency heads shall fully cooperate with the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office in these efforts.

    It’s not like we have a whole specific office that handles all of this. (heavy sarcasm here)

  183. 183.

    Redshift

    @Shalimar:

    It isn’t a magic spell where he can just do it instantly without going through the proper procedures.

    I’m heading this a lot, and I would tend to believe that is the case, but I would swear I remember that the Shrub Administration (probably during the Scooter Libby business) argued that the president could declassify things without telling anyone, and got a ruling to that effect.

    My memory could be faulty, because that seems ludicrous, but I remember it seeming ludicrous at the time.

  184. 184.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Bill: I’ve been out of the game for so long that much of this is beyond my personal experience; we were just getting started with email and such when I got out, and the rule of thumb was to treat everything as potentially at least CONFIDENTIAL, the lowest level of the classified system, which meant disks had to be over written at least three times, TEMPEST hazard mitigation was necessary (the first word processors sent signals that could be picked up a mile away, so no classified on them).  I have no idea what they do with all this stuff now, but my understanding is that the Obama administration did almost everything electronically, with all the safeguards required, while hard copy made a comeback during the Trump years because TFG didn’t do the cyber aside from Twitter.

  185. 185.

    Leto

    Basically the entire Trumpov admin shit on this section. Just about every section of this, from Jared and incest FLOTUS’s bad security clearance (everyone remember how they couldn’t get theirs?), to the current shit we’re still having to deal with now. Every section of this. Security officials were justifiably worried about something like this happening because of their total disdain for following just basic fucking rules. I’m getting way too worked up again and it’s too late in the evening.

    Part 4. Safeguarding

    Sec. 4.1. General Restrictions on Access.

    (a) A person may have access to classified information provided that:

    (1) a favorable determination of eligibility for access has been made by an agency head or the agency head’s designee;

    (2) the person has signed an approved nondisclosure agreement; and

    (3) the person has a need-to-know the information.

    (b) Every person who has met the standards for access to classified information in paragraph (a) of this section shall receive contemporaneous training on the proper safeguarding of classified information and on the criminal, civil, and administrative sanctions that may be imposed on an individual who fails to protect classified information from unauthorized disclosure.

    (c) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency’s control.

    (d) Classified information may not be removed from official premises without proper authorization.

    (e) Persons authorized to disseminate classified information outside the executive branch shall ensure the protection of the information in a manner equivalent to that provided within the executive branch.

    (f) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that:

    (1) prevent access by unauthorized persons; and

    (2) ensure the integrity of the information.

  186. 186.

    eversor

    @Redshift:

    Classification exists for the executive branch and so the president can declass at will.  Congress folk get cleared by nature of being voted into office and thus don’t go through what the rest of us did when we got cleared.

    All that said this is the first president dumb enough to cart off documents related to nukes.  If he needed stuff they would have set up an SCIF at his home with a SIPRNET and JWICS drop and be done with it.

    Comedically nuke stuff is TS but the DOE clearance for it is called Q, so Trump got owned by Q in the end.  Top Secret sums it up but it’s really a Q SAP level access for DOE.  For us DOD types that’s TS SCI.

    We might see someone be soooooo fucked that it defines a new level of being fucked.  I can’t even on several levels, it’s sort of a “wait he did what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” oh you done fucked up good and proper.  Followed by several minutes of “nobody can be this dumb, it’s not possible to be this dumb, can a human be this dumb”.

  187. 187.

    Leto

    @Villago Delenda Est: we have different levels of encryption we can use with Outlook, but it’s only good for sending to other .mil/.gov addresses. Anything beyond that and we’re using our specific secure system (SIPR). SIPR is a closed loop system with heavy encryption. There’s also a myriad of different intel systems that do their own closed system stuff. Honestly, most of the time the rule of thumb was: if there’s even a hint of anything that shouldn’t be open source, get on SIPR. Most of the people who did that, outside of our COMSEC personnel, were NCOs so that was another way to limit access (section 4: safeguarding!)

  188. 188.

    Leto

    @eversor: Honestly, I feel for all the people who are going to have an extra 20-30 mins added to their annual training because of this incident. Because there’s no way this won’t be added as an example of what not to do, and how historically bad this is. I can’t wait for some dumbass to try the: he’s the president, he can do what he wants! That’ll get bitch slapped down with a quickness.

  189. 189.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Redshift: Internet lawyer T. Greg Doucette seems to think you need to announce it in one way or another https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1557919684724506624?s=20&t=WiCwjCEChMXo1RuAbDoOdA

    Also it’s only one of many possible felony charges

  190. 190.

    eversor

    @Leto:

    SIPR is only for up to SECRET level though.  Go above and we had NSANET, JWICS, GWAN.

    Thing is, an ex president can get this at home along with an SCIF.  So not doing that and taking boxes of documents to padlock them is uh, beyond dumb.

  192. 192.

    Ken

    @Leto: Perhaps one good thing to come out of it will be the, ah, de-hiring of Trump supporters who refuse to complete their assigned analysis of all the things Trump did wrong?

  193. 193.

    NotMax

    Someone has to point out that Mar-a-lago is not his only residence. What else could be lurking inside Bedminster and the Tower in Manhattan?

  194. 194.

    Soprano2

    I forgot how much I hated the constant “OMG what the fuck did he do NOW??!!” feeling I had all the time when TFG was president. It’s coming back to me….

  195. 195.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @eversor: I think that Biden cut TFG off from all classified everything, which means if there was a SCIF at the swamp palace, it was probably decommissioned.

  196. 196.

    Jackie

    @RSA: Yes, someone – a name I’m not familiar with – stated there’s different categories of *Top Secret,* and anything regarding Nuclear has its own category of Top Security, and can’t be declassified “just because.” He was on Msnbc – I believe the ODonnell show.

  199. 199.

    eversor

    @Leto:

    I’m back and forth with Amazon AWS over maybe accepting an offer which is TS/SCI will full polygraph.  Pays well, I hold the clearance, local (Arlington VA baby!), but I really don’t want to go back to living in a SCIF.  Who knows!  You can probably figure out the real client I’d work for.

    And yeah this is going to be a whole nother Snowden fiasco.  Like I get it, but I got shit to do and I don’t want to sit here for two hours of traitors and nitwits training cause I’m you know, not a traitor, might be a nitwit jury is still out.  Selling nuke secrets to Saudis was never on my bucket list or even thought about that could happen till today.

    It’s sad but we are going to all go through “don’t take nuclear weapons documents home” session as you said for 30 mins with everyone groaning at the sheer idiocy of it all.  “You don’t have to tell me not to steal nuclear weapons plans I’m not fucking stupid”.

  201. 201.

    prostratedragon

    @leeleeFL: Somewhere I saw reference to a forensic report that named torso wounds from a fall down stairs as the cause of death. So fishy that I wonder if it was a true report.

  202. 202.

    prostratedragon

    @Redshift: ​ What Marcy Wheeler used to call “pixie dust” declassification. But as I recall, it was considered dubious at best then too.

  203. 203.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Isn’t it moot whether Trump declassified these materials in his own brain?  The second he was told to turn them over, he’s been informed they are re-classified.  Hiding some instead of turning them over is stealing classified documents whether or not taking them home was.

  204. 204.

    eversor

    @Jackie:

    This is false.  Once you hit TS there are SCI and SAP programs which means the information is in a compartment.  You have to work on the program and be read in to access it.  Some of us (had/have) side clearences such as CYRPTO access (the encryption of communications) but these are not TS or above.

    A TS with SCI or SAP access requires a bit more of the flashlight up your ass to make sure you can be trusted.  But once in you simply get compartments opened and closed as you work on them.

    To make a joke Leto is obviously military with a TS and I was Navy with TS.   We are both cleared, but we don’t need to read into each others programs.  If one us moved to the others command the commanding officer would issue us a temp clearance into the program based on what we had which would be revoked the moment we left and then we could never speak of it again.

    Thousands of us live by these rules each day and don’t violate them.  It’s serious shit.

  207. 207.

    Jackie

    Skipping through posts… IF Trump has/had possession of nuclear top secret papers – how on earth did these papers leave the WH??? Apparently, anything pertaining to Nuclear had to be accounted for, and be under watch for every moment when outside of secured security.

    These documents weren’t just brought to Trump’s desk and left to be picked up later.

  208. 208.

    Jackie

    @eversor: I think you’re agreeing with me? There’s TS and there’s Really TS. Regardless, I was pointing out that some TS info can’t be reclassified w/o jumping through extra hoops?

  209. 209.

    eversor

    @Jackie:

    You have to frame it as to what it “could” be and why he’d have access.  It can’t be codes those change daily.  Schematics and science don’t matter because the issue is the ability to make the things not the know how.

    For my money it’s plans.  Layouts, sub information, locations, other such jazz.   To take it down a level you can’t just download mythermonuclearbomb.pdf and even if you could most people are too stupid to read it and those who can don’t need it.  What a President does have is plans, locations, and all that.  Which is arguably worse.  That shit is still nuclear and classified and if you don’t agree we have a whole Navy that will roll over laughing at you.

    I’m guessing this is really fucking bad.

  210. 210.

    gene108

    @WV Blondie:

    The Reichwing’s new talking point is that TFG declassified them. The problem with that argument is that he/his lawyers would have already told the National Archives (the agency this whole thing started with). And he would have whined to Faux Noise or OAN about it.

    There’s a process to declassification, otherwise nobody else but Trump would know he declassified documents.

    He can’t just take stuff with him and when asked about it say he declassified it so no big deal.

    It’s not how things work.

  211. 211.

    Leto

    @Jackie: what the Trumpov admin was known for was meticulous attention to detail and abiding by the rule of law… (heavy snark here). Frankly I don’t care. It’s another major violation which should be prosecuted. We (the American public) have no idea if all the papers are back, what damage could have been done, or the how long the fallout will occur. It’s continuous and ongoing, and we probably won’t know the full extent for decades to come.

  213. 213.

    Jackie

    @eversor: I think we’re in agreement. Whatever Trump stole from the WH is bad. He certainly didn’t take what he took for the good of America.

  217. 217.

    Jinchi

     

    @Baud:  He did note that the people he confirmed it with were very surprised that Trump had disclosed that information to Woodward.

    Anyone who confirmed it to Woodward had no business being surprised that Trump disclosed the information. They’re guilty of the same crime.

  218. 218.

    Jinchi

     

    @eversor:Comedically nuke stuff is TS but the DOE clearance for it is called Q, so Trump got owned by Q in the end.  Top Secret sums it up but it’s really a Q SAP level access for DOE.  For us DOD types that’s TS SCI.

    “Q” is literally called “Q” because he supposedly has a Q-clearance that gives him access to all the top secret information.

     

    So maybe this is his stuff.  /s

  219. 219.

    SFAW

    @Jinchi: ​
     
    Speaking of Q: I was driving around yesterday, was behind a pickup with “ransom note style” decal letters spelling WWG1WGA on his gate. Part of me was tempted to call 911, tell them “there’s an insane person driving a black pickup, here’s his location.”

  221. 221.

    jonas

    So if this is true, that Trump was somehow able to abscond with sensitive nuclear weapons specs or weapons project plans or something raises a troubling question: was there no chain of possession process for papers that sensitive? I imagine something like that would be “eyes only”, in other words someone from DOE or DOD shows them to the President so they can discuss them, then puts them back into one of those steel briefcases handcuffed to their wrists or something and goes back to headquarters in an armored vehicle. What were they doing just “lying around” the Oval Office or WH residence as the Trumps moved out?

  222. 222.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    My brother and sister have both claimed their dual US/Canada citizenships, but my son asked me not to because he needs security clearance for his job. He’s interviewed every six months, and one question they ask is if anyone in his immediate family is a dual citizen. That’s how careful he is compared to the grifter who was in the White House.

  223. 223.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    It seems that a lot of the “nuclear secrets” are protected by STATUTE, not just by executive classification.

     

    So magic pixie dust declassification wouldn’t work. And could be evidence of guilt.

     

    GUILTY! GUILTY! GUILTY!

  224. 224.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Major Major Major Major: Agreed. Why would you have physical documents at all?

    As to what’s in the casket, my money is on money. Gold, cash in plastic bundles, stuff like that. It’s that or else it’s something that Trump (or the kids) never, ever want anyone to see.

    But, at the end of the day, there’s probably nothing in the casket. The “struggles” of the pallbearers were probably just missteps of a drunken stagger. Hell, if I was a pallbearer for that clan, I’d be drunk off my ass, too.

  225. 225.

    J R in WV

    @JaySinWA: ​
     

    ETA how many reams of paper can you fit in a coffin and how much would it weigh?

    Not only will a standard coffin hold something like a dozen banker boxes, you can actually get super-sized coffins.

    We had a morbidly obese co-worker, a really nice guy but huge, needed nearly a double-wide coffin after his fatal heart attack. Had a great sense of humor. Handled with heavy equipment, not by human pall bearers.

  226. 226.

    tokyokie

    @Villago Delenda Est: I had a TS clearance years ago when I worked as a security guard at a defense contractor. The contractor was building guidance systems for cruise missiles, and information regarding target sites for nuclear attack was kept in a “safe” (actually a couple of large metal filing cabinets that had a locked steel band around them) and I had to check to make sure the lock was in place a couple of times a shift. So I was in close proximity to highly classified documents but never saw any of them. And I thought it was pretty much security theater. If a foreign power wanted the information, compromising one of the engineers who actually was reading the documents would have been the way to go.

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