Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Not all heroes wear capes.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Don’t mess with the librarians

Don’t mess with the librarians

by | 243 Comments

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As he tries to lie his way out of the classified document hoarding scandal, Tangerine Baal dragged President Obama into it, posting the following lie on his tumbleweed-choked Twitter knock-off platform:

President Barack Hussein Obama kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified. How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots!

This tells us that the rumors about Trump keeping nuclear documents in Melania’s shoe closet must be true, or he wouldn’t have bothered with the “pertained to nuclear” line. But the entire statement is a big fat lie, according to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), i.e., the librarians and archivists who oversee presidential papers.

According to the New York Times, that organization “confirmed on Friday afternoon that Mr. Obama had not kept his documents — classified and unclassified — as required under the Presidential Records Act of 1978.”

Moreover, the organization detailed which of its facilities stores the “approximately 30 million pages” of records and said, “As required by the [Presidential Records Act], former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the presidential records of his administration.”

Most of us learned not to fuck with librarians during grade school. Trump is learning that TODAY at age 76.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

243Comments

  1. 1.

    MisterForkbeard

    You know, stealing Top Secret documents isn’t the way I expected Trump to go down, but it was in the top 10.

    Also, my sister is a librarian. Betty’s got it right – don’t fuck with them.

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    Yes, but can they get him to shut up? Either in person or on his Twitter knock-off site?

    That would be real power.

  5. 5.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to have overdue books

  6. 6.

    MisterForkbeard

    Since this is technically OT – what do we think the punishment realistically could be for Trump for this? They’re not going to throw a former president in jail (for security reasons, and for optics).

    I figure… at most, House Arrest with his internet access locked down, no/rare interviews and kept under constant surveillance.

  12. 12.

    CaseyL

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Security isn’t a problem.  They can find a facility where no one else is held and keep him there.  Maybe build one on a desert island.

    “Optics” I don’t much of a damn about.  I think showing the world that former leaders can go to prison if they do something awful enough is a good thing.  It will also be something for our local Trump Wanna-Be’s to contemplate.

    But if house arrest is how they want to go, it better not be MAL with all that space and amenities.  No private chefs, no servants, no company.

  13. 13.

    Cameron

    I don’t know whether Trump is literate or not; I strongly suspect the only time(s) he’s been in a library is for a photo op.  One of my sisters recently retired after working as a librarian in Texas, and she tells me first-hand what the effect of Trumpism has been and continues to be on libraries and literacy in general.  And, no, it’s not good – anywhere the Cletus Cult has any stroke, libraries are being terrorized, public education is turning into a grift mill for charter schools….sorry, I’ll shut up now.

  14. 14.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MisterForkbeard:

    You know, stealing Top Secret documents isn’t the way I expected Trump to go down, but it was in the top 10. 

    You did?  We all knew he was blabbing shit to everyone during his squatting in the White House, but I didn’t think the shitstain would steal documents from a job he clearly hated.

  15. 15.

    MisterForkbeard

    @mrmoshpotato: I don’t know, I figured “taking sensitive information and selling it” was a definitely possibility. This is just his own special way of doing that.

  16. 16.

    Ken

    Let’s see if the suspiciously-specific deflections continue tomorrow.  “Obama’s 33 million pages also include lists of US intelligence assets in foreign countries!” perhaps.

  17. 17.

    MattF

    That statement from Trump also includes Obama’s middle name, just incidentally, but also necessarily.

  19. 19.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @CaseyL:

    Security isn’t a problem. They can find a facility where no one else is held and keep him there. Maybe build one on a desert island.

    Just like how they handled Napoleon

  20. 20.

    Suzanne

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I didn’t think the shitstain would steal documents from a job he clearly hated.

     

    I didn’t think he did any work and ergo didn’t produce any documents.

  27. 27.

    Kent

    @CaseyL:Security isn’t a problem.  They can find a facility where no one else is held and keep him there.  Maybe build one on a desert island.

    Guantanamo?

  28. 28.

    cope

    One of the first practical lessons I learned as a teacher was to be on good terms with the media specialist (head librarian).  When we were fortunate enough for my wife, an R.N., to work at my high school in the health academy magnet program for a year, I made sure to get her on good terms with our media specialist who, by then, had become my buddy.  Her fellow R.N. teachers were impressed that she always got quick responses from him whenever an LCD projector needed a new bulb or a Scantron grading machine was low on toner.  He was both an Army vet and a Navy vet, built like one of the tanks he used to drive and very intimidating.  Media specialists and secretaries ran schools as I learned at the time.

    Sadly, the state of Florida has mostly eliminated school media specialists, using those allocations for additional teachers and farming out media services to I.T. folks.  ‘Tis sad.

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I don’t know, I figured “taking sensitive information and selling it” was a definitely possibility. 

    I was assuming during his bastard presidency.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MisterForkbeard:

    True, that wouldn’t be nearly as satisfying to us as the orange-jumpsuit-perp-walk-in-leg-irons scenario we’ve been dreaming of — but it would be a miserable existence for him, and that’s almost as good.

  33. 33.

    Sparkedcat

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    The documents will be DNA swabbed before they are fingerprinted.

  34. 34.

    Josie

    Retired school librarian here. The kids quickly learned I was their best friend when they needed help or information and their worst enemy when they misbehaved in my library, Maybe TFG is going to learn that lesson now at his advanced age.

  36. 36.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    I propose one of those abandoned mental hospitals that are featured in those ghost hunting shows.

  37. 37.

    JoyceH

    Just a reminder that Spandau prison operated for over twenty years with ONE total inmate, because it was considered necessary for Nazi Rudolph Hess to serve his full life sentence behind bars.

    Not to say that Trump needs to be entirely alone there, because it occurs to me that he didn’t commit these offenses all by himself. For one thing, highly classified documents tend to be written above a fourth grade level, so there’s no way Trump himself would know which documents would be the most lucrative.

  42. 42.

    CaseyL

    @JoyceH: Oh, yesssss.  Put all of his enablers and co-conspirators in with him.  The non-stop back-and-forth recriminations will be a joy to hear.

  48. 48.

    Captain C

    @JoyceH: If his three kids by Ivana go down on Federal crimes, maybe they can all have a setup like from the end of Seinfeld.

  49. 49.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Salman Rushdie update, from the NYT: He’s out of surgery and on a ventilator, but:

    “The news is not good,” the author’s agent, Andrew Wylie, said in an emailed update. He said Mr. Rushdie might lose an eye and his liver had been damaged. The celebrated author, who has long faced death threats, was stabbed in the neck and abdomen by a 24-year old New Jersey man. A motive was unclear.

  50. 50.

    Captain C

    @Omnes Omnibus: We can let them set up a termater-throwing stand at the edge of the prison (only to be used on TFG and/or his spawn and/or his other co-conspirators) and they’ll probably be fine with it.

  51. 51.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Captain C:

    Hey, Tiffany’s a lawyer! Maybe she could represent her siblings!

    BTW, how much longer are Melania and Barron likely to stick around?

  53. 53.

    japa21

    Obama’s purloined 33 million pages are about 3 miles from me in a former furniture store. It is very secure. My understanding is that most of them are stuffed into sleeper sofas.

  58. 58.

    Calouste

    @CaseyL: Attu Island, the westernmost of the US Aleutian Islands, has an abandoned Coast Guard Station that could be repurposed. I’m sure dimwit Donnie will find the temperatures there refreshing after the oppressive Florida heat, and just like at Mar-A-Lago, he’ll have a lot of rats for company.

  60. 60.

    Kent

    @Omnes Omnibus:@Kent: @Captain C: Aren’t we supposed to be making nice with Cuba?

    I expect the Cubans might actually cheer housing Trump at Guantanamo.  He wasn’t exactly their best friend.  Didn’t he pull the plug on a bunch of Obama’s Cuban-friendly initiatives?

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    CNN analyst says the intel Trump stole are so sensitive that FBI agents will begin FINGER PRINTING each document to find out who actually touched them.

    If they’re that sensitive, then we’re talking TS/SCI Q level shit. Q is DoE for TS, and it means it involves nuclear weapons information.

  62. 62.

    Captain C

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Hey, Tiffany’s a lawyer! Maybe she could represent her siblings!

    If so, hopefully she’s smart enough to get paid up front.  Certainly, she knows what happens if she doesn’t.  And I’m quite sure TFG has no qualms about stiffing his own kids.

    BTW, how much longer are Melania and Barron likely to stick around?

    As long as it’s profitable, or maybe until just before TFG declares another bankruptcy.

  63. 63.

    Scout211

    Kash Patel has now changed his story. Yesterday he was telling reporters that Trump declassified everything at MAL, because he could.  Today he is blaming the General Services Administration.

    And he is also saying that  the National Archives have to “sort that out.”

    He is really full of it.

    Kash Patel, who has been designated by former President Trump to handle issues with his presidential records, blamed the General Services Administration (GSA) for boxes being at the Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida, where the FBI recovered classified material during a search on Monday.
    “The GSA mistakenly packed some boxes and moved them to Mar-a-Lago. That’s not on the President. That’s on the National Archives to sort that out,” Patel said on Fox.
    Patel, a former national security official in the Trump administration, said that at the end of Trump’s presidency in December 2020 and January 2021, Trump declassified sets of documents. He wouldn’t say whether the boxes recovered at Mar-a-Lago were part of that declassification.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    @Calouste:@CaseyL: Attu Island, the westernmost of the US Aleutian Islands, has an abandoned Coast Guard Station that could be repurposed. I’m sure dimwit Donnie will find the temperatures there refreshing after the oppressive Florida heat, and just like at Mar-A-Lago, he’ll have a lot of rats for company.

    I’ve actually been there.  It has since been turned over to the Aleut Native Corporation (Alaskan equivalent of a tribal government) and they are investing in commercial fishing installations out there.  So it isn’t a military installation anymore.

    I doubt that the Aleuts want him.

    EDIT:  I’m thinking of Adak not Attu.  I think Attu is uninhabited so they would need to punish all the guards who get sent there too.

  65. 65.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @Baud: ​
      she behaves like a spy

    According to The Washington Post reporting, U.S. Air Force Gen. John E. Hyten, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the military’s second-highest-ranking officer allegedly was quizzed by Melania Trump about the location of the United States’ ICBMs.

    “I also spent a lot of time talking to Melania Trump about the locations of all our intercontinental ballistic missile fields. She was more inquisitive and smarter than the president.”

  66. 66.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @CaseyL:

    Oh, yesssss.  Put all of his enablers and co-conspirators in with him.  The non-stop back-and-forth recriminations will be a joy to hear.

    Record said recriminations and turn it into a play. You could title it No Exit 2.

  67. 67.

    Roger Moore

    One point I have not seen made in exactly this way is that Trump has frequently used ignorance of the law as an excuse.  In the case of the Espionage Act, he can’t plausibly do that, since he’s the one who signed the law making mishandling of classified documents a felony.  If those are the charges, he’s faced with the unpleasant choice of accepting that he knows what the penalty is or admitting he signed stuff without knowing what it meant.

  68. 68.

    HumboldtBlue

    ‘Rushdie’s agent…said Friday evening that Rushdie was on a ventilator and could not speak. “The news is not good,” Wylie said in an email. “Salman will likely lose one eye; the nerves in his arm were severed; and his liver was stabbed and damaged.”’

  69. 69.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Suzanne: The animal disease research center is being phased out, with the long-term intent of turning the island into a wildlife refuge. Let’s not pollute it with that trash.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    BTW, how much longer are Melania and Barron likely to stick around?

    My bet is they’re on the first plane to Europe, with all the jewelry and cash they can carry, while Ivanka is still posing for “candid” photos of her standing thoughtfully by the graveside at Bedminster in carefully arranged Vera Wang widow’s weeds. “Delete that one, Bobby! The fucking veil was blocking my cheekbone, and it cost a fucking fortune. C’mon, we’re losing the golden hour and he’s gonna start to stink. Let’s do it again in three, two…. GO!”

     

  73. 73.

    piratedan

    @MisterForkbeard:

    well…. the espionage citing is what draws my attention…. and sure, mishandling secret material is one thing… but this is 45 that we’re talking about…

    so my assumptions are…. he procured those documents and shared them already… espionage/treason/conspiracy

    or…. he was going to auction them off and was taking bids…

    or he was just being vindictive and petty and removed them because he was told not to (which may be a factor, but this is 45 and he rarely does anything without some personal wealth angle)

    what also will be telling, we know that he’s not a reader, so someone who is, knew what was there and identified them to be removed….

    so who would do that… Flynn?  who would they sell/share them with?

    I’m less concerned with DJT, simply because there’s so much crime, something is going to stick, but who else orchestrated this side hustle… that’s worth knowing for sure as they thought that Garland would never drop the gauntlet.

  76. 76.

    Roger Moore

    @CaseyL:

    Security isn’t a problem. They can find a facility where no one else is held and keep him there.

    Or they could just use a facility that was designed for handling prisoners who need to be kept especially secure.  There’s such a facility in Florence, Colorado, and one at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

  77. 77.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
      Not only did she ask for locations of missile silos but she also asked for location of Moose and Squirrel

  79. 79.

    bbleh

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @WaterGirl: @Villago Delenda Est:  methinks it may have something to do with the DOJ head of counterintelligence having watched the security tapes, presumably to get some idea of how many people accessed the basement closet where they were stored.  It has been suggested that this was one of the factors that caused them to push the big red button and go for the warrant.

  80. 80.

    Spanky

    @japa21: Oh jeez! Is that the old Marlo store? That’s where I bought my way-too-fuzzy sofa/loveseat/chair combo.

    Don’t judge me. It was the 70s and my first apartment.

  82. 82.

    Raoul Paste

    If Trump ever ends up in the pokey, I suspect there will be a lot of food on the walls

  83. 83.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MattF:

    I can imagine that whoever briefed Trump on the significance of the documents emphasized their sensitivity. 

    What specially-designed picture book did they use?

  84. 84.

    topclimber

    @Cameron: You don’t remember that famous picture of Trump, surrounded by his cabinet officials, including General Millay, holding an upside down copy of The Art of the Steal in front of the Library of Congress? “We’re going to find out why they only have one copy of this book!” he said. “Nobody cancels me.”

  87. 87.

    Captain C

    @Kent:

    I’m thinking of Adak not Attu.  I think Attu is uninhabited so they would need to punish all the guards who get sent there too.

    Give him a basic facility with a bed, WC, shower, chair, table, microwave, and whatever inbound media he wants, and leave him (and any Federally convicted spawn) alone on the island.  Keep the guards on a luxuriously-outfitted corvette-size ship offshore (with ASW and anti-air capabilities if someone like Putin tries to rescue him), for, say, 3-month tours.  Trebuchet his supplies onshore from the ship, including microwavable frozen fast foods; let him cook for himself if he wants something else.

    Every so often he’s allowed (or just gets) a medical checkup.  Other than that, perhaps extremely limited visitation from family members only.

  88. 88.

    bbleh

    @Scout211: I was a little surprised by this.  The “he already declassified them” story is almost certainly false and in any case legally irrelevant, but it had political legs.  This one, however, is just eye-rolling laughable, especially since it was reported long ago that Trump was packing boxes in the residence for a while and wouldn’t let anyone else in.

  91. 91.

    Spanky

    What’s wrong with the Dry Tortugas? There’s already a facility there, and it handled similar cases.

  96. 96.

    Jackie

    @MisterForkbeard: I hope for a threat: Sign this contract stating you will NEVER EVER run for any government office again, OR you will be tried with espionage against the USA.

    He will be shunned by all who were forced to worship him, as he will now be worthless to their political aspirations.

  97. 97.

    japa21

    @Spanky: Nope.  Neither I nor Mrs. Japa can remember the name off hand.  It’ll probably come to us at 2 AM, but it was a fairly high end store.​
     

    ETA: Plunkett Furniture.

  99. 99.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Captain C: Put the guards on one of the confiscated mega yachts, so tfg can see it and never ever be on it. I’m not above taunting as punishment.

  100. 100.

    Redshift

    @Scout211:

    “The GSA mistakenly packed some boxes and moved them to Mar-a-Lago. That’s not on the President. That’s on the National Archives to sort that out,” Patel

    Bwahahaha! That is possibly the most weak-ass deep state blaming I have ever heard. “It’s the movers’ fault all of this illegal stuff is here! They’re the ones who moved it!”

    Nobody but the Trumpist base is going to believe the GSA put classified documents in TFG’s personal safe as part of the move-out process.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    Holy shit. Apple TV is interviewing Juan Soto while he’s playing in the outfield.

    I can’t believe MLB allows that.

  104. 104.

    Roger Moore

    @Spanky:

    What’s wrong with the Dry Tortugas?

    They’re a National Park, and I’ll be damned if Trump gets to take over any part of a National Park, even if it’s for the prison he’s kept in.  Similar thing with Alcatraz, which is now part of Golden Gate NRA.

  106. 106.

    Leto

    @Redshift:  How can they say that it’s both Trumpov declassified them, but also WHOOPS! this was an accident? Bottom line: get fucked, you worthless traitor assclowns. You’re all going down in history with Benedict Arnold, except Saudi Arabia won’t build a statue in your honor.

  107. 107.

    dmsilev

    @Scout211:

    “The GSA mistakenly packed some boxes and moved them to Mar-a-Lago. That’s not on the President. That’s on the National Archives to sort that out,” Patel said on Fox.

    Right, which explains the year and a half worth of stonewalling as the Archives tried to get everything back.

    Is Patel so stupid that he thinks that’s a plausible excuse, or does he think his audience is that stupid? Or both?

  108. 108.

    Leto

    @Baud: considering only paint drying is slower than an inning of baseball, I’m more surprised it hasn’t been done earlier.

  109. 109.

    Skepticat

    Trump is learning that TODAY at age 76.

    Sadly, he still is learning nothing and never will. I just hope there finally are some consequences, but I’ll be shocked if anything happens.

  110. 110.

    Baud

    @HumboldtBlue:

    That’s nuts.  Dugout interviews during the game are one thing, but not while they’re playing.

    As I was typing this, Soto caught a fly ball while being interviewed.

  111. 111.

    E.

    I think there is an unwanted “not” in the sentence “ confirmed Obama had not kept his documents “ quote.

  112. 112.

    mrmoshpotato

    @David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

    “I also spent a lot of time talking to Melania Trump about the locations of all our intercontinental ballistic missile fields. She was more inquisitive and smarter than the president.” 

    What the fuck?  ICBM research  is a hobby of that gold-digging, birther bitch?

  115. 115.

    Suzanne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The animal disease research center is being phased out, with the long-term intent of turning the island into a wildlife refuge. Let’s not pollute it with that trash. 

    It’s a line from Silence of the Lambs. Starling offers it as a deal to Lecter.

  116. 116.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Roger Moore:

    Similar thing with Alcatraz, which is now part of Golden Gate NRA.

    Are you saying throwing rotten tomatoes isn’t a recreational activity?  Party-pooper!

  120. 120.

    Spanky

    @mrmoshpotato: I sincerely hope he spent all that time trolling Natasha with misinformation, because he should be well-versed in counter-intel.

    Sadly, I’m not optimistic.

  124. 124.

    Tony G

    Jesus, what an idiot.  One of the rules of the Mafia (at least in Martin Scorsese movies and “The Sopranos”) is “Keep you mouth shut”.  Trump is a wannabe mobster that wouldn’t have lasted a week with the real wise guys.  Because he can’t stop himself from insulting Obama, he has now effectively admitted publicly that he did leave the White House with documents related to nuclear weapons.  What a moron.  I hope that he dies in prison.

  125. 125.

    columbusqueen

    The really critical punishment is getting Orange Shitgibbon banned from holding elective office ever again. Given what a security risk he is, it must be done.

  126. 126.

    David 🌈☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    This is a real photo of my mom, 16 year old me and @joebiden in a parking lot at the University of Delaware.

    He took the time to tell me about his wife who went to my highschool and give me some words of encouragement.

    Joe is a good man. He has always been an inspiration to me and I believe he can lead our country into better times.

    Aubrey Plaza (photo)

  128. 128.

    Captain C

    @piratedan:

    so who would do that… Flynn?  who would they sell/share them with?

    Wasn’t Jared said to be asking for all sorts of secret documents that were well-outside his wide and ill-defined purview?  Given that the Saudis basically gave him $2 billion to play with and rake from, that would seem to be a productive angle of investigation.

    Among other possibilities, of course.

  129. 129.

    Leto

    Trump Warrant Revealed: Receipts Show Search Was Valid

    Ari Melber going over the search warrants, but the more interesting part is former CIA officer David Priess explaining further about how many of the documents were there, as well as part of what happens when TS material leaves secure custody. A few of the things we were discussing today are discussed here.

  136. 136.

    The Pale Scot

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’ve probably said this before. My wish for the Fartbag is a one bed trailer in central Florida with his neighbors continually knocking on his door asking if he has a cigarette he can spare. Jarad doing 20 at that Alabama prison farm, Ivanka working at the HSN hawking Kardashian knockoff

     

    Add:

    internet access locked down

    With only cartoons to watch and a pink jumpsuit to wear as they do in Arizona

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    @mrmoshpotato: I don’t think there’s anything classified about the location of the land-based ICBM fields.

    Defense.gov:

    VIDEO DETAILS

    More than 10,000 people provide up to 400 on-alert, combat-ready LGM-30G Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missiles, or ICBMs, in hardened silos across five states.

    […]

    The current ICBM force consists of Minuteman III missiles located at the 90th Missile Wing at F.E. Warren Air Force Base, Wyoming; the 341st Missile Wing at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana; and the 91st Missile Wing at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota.

    Now if she wanted to know where the nuclear subs were at a particular time, well, …

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Dan B

    OT:  DOJ is investigating the Southern Baptist Convention over handling of sexual abuse..

     

    Go Dark Merrick!

  143. 143.

    Chetan Murthy

    @The Pale Scot: I am imagining a reality show where TFG, his Jarvanka, and Melanoma are all in prison, in a block they share together, but isolated from the rest of the population.   Like solitary, but for the four of them.  As they say, “hell is other people”.  Or as in The Good Place, their hell will be to make each other miserable.  I think it would make great teevee.

  144. 144.

    Cameron

    @topclimber: Indeed.  Who can forget defining moments in history like this, comparable to George Washington’s “No cherry tree!  No cherry tree! YOU’RE the cherry tree!”  BTW, book review of Trump vs. military didn’t impress me a lot.  Tries to paint Millay Vanillay as some righteous dude caught up in a world he doesn’t understand….horseshit.

  147. 147.

    Mike in DC

    @Another Scott:  What’s above top secret is the actual underwater “routes” followed by the missile subs.  They are the last resort of our deterrent.

  148. 148.

    Captain C

    @Tony G:

    One of the rules of the Mafia (at least in Martin Scorsese movies and “The Sopranos”) is “Keep you mouth shut”.  Trump is a wannabe mobster that wouldn’t have lasted a week with the real wise guys.

    Trump seems like a store brand John Gotti (or really, -wannabe).  Gotti enjoyed the hell out of being the Don, and wanted everyone to know it.  And like Gotti, Trump got away with it by audacity, intimidation, and bribery until he didn’t (which is hopefully starting right now).

  149. 149.

    Danielx

    @The Pale Scot:

    Meanwhile: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, GW Bush and Barack Obama are all living (one hopes) reasonably happy and fulfilling lives. Free of entanglement with DOJ and the FBI, amazingly enough.

    eta: so okay, Dubya could stand a few decades in Purgatory.

  151. 151.

    Martin

    Man, the FBI must really be pissed at themselves as it turns out all of those documents that they planted at Mar A Lago Trump had been declassified, per Trump, all the more impressive as Trump’s been in New York the whole time and didn’t even get to see what was planted. He just knew, you know?

  152. 152.

    Captain C

    @The Pale Scot:

    I’ve probably said this before. My wish for the Fartbag is a one bed trailer in central Florida with his neighbors continually knocking on his door asking if he has a cigarette he can spare.

    And a couple next-door tweeker neighbors who insist on doing their various deconstruction/ “maintenance” projects on their appliances and/or vehicles at 3am almost every night.

  154. 154.

    Gravenstone

    @Redshift: Even in the bullshit version of ‘reality’ where that happened, why were the docs not returned months ago when first identified and subpoenaed?

  156. 156.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @The Pale Scot:

    My wish for the Fartbag is a one bed trailer in Tornado Alley in central Florida with his neighbors continually knocking on his door asking if he has a cigarette he can spare.

    There. [Dusts hands in satisfied fashion, exits left.]

  159. 159.

    Feathers

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: There was a joke going around DC after the 1986 bombing of Gaddafi’s compound: When told of the raid, Reagan said “The Libyans? I thought you meant the librarians.”

    For anyone who wants more info about the Reagan vs the librarians battles, this ALA newsletter from the time has been digitized and put online: Less Access to Less Information Link

  160. 160.

    Gravenstone

    @Baud: Fox was interviewing Joey Votto during the “Field of Dreams” game yesterday. He stopped midsentence to shout out “runner!” when the Cubs player on first took off to steal second. It’s been an occasional thing for a while now.

  163. 163.

    p.a.

    Are all the Aleutian Islands populated?  That would be a good spot, with a vegan-only menu.  I just pity the jailers, cook, etc.

  165. 165.

    CaseyL

    @Frank Wilhoit: Isn’t that the one Napoleon escaped from?​
     

    ETA: Though if you mean St. Helens, as in Mt. St. Helens, the volcano in Washington State, that works, too!

  171. 171.

    TS

    The first item listed on the property receipt is perhaps the oddest — an executive grant of clemency for Roger Stone, a longtime Trump friend who was convicted by a jury of seeking to impede a congressional investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    And why would he want to keep this?

  172. 172.

    kalakal

    @CaseyL: That was Elba, which is about 10 km from mainland Italy. St Helena is in the middle of the Atlantic, it’s about as remote as it gets. The locals wouldn’t want him

    Bikini seems to be vacant these days…

  176. 176.

    Gravenstone

    @TS: Saw someone remark that they hoped it didn’t mean there was actually a second, more expansive pardon for Stone. Of course, still wouldn’t protect from the shit he’s done since Trump left office.

  177. 177.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Suzanne: Obviously a movie I am not familiar with

    ETA: The history of the place is interesting. Some years back the Feds wanted to sell it off and use the proceeds for a better facility in Kansas. Things moved slowly, the bottom fell out of real estate, and suddenly it wasn’t such a good idea. Eventually the Senate delegations from NY and CT joined forces and got the legislation (to sell) repealed. The repeal legislation was signed by TFG in December(?) of 2020.

  178. 178.

    hilts

    @Captain C:

    Trump seems like a store brand John Gotti (or really, -wannabe).

    Unfortunately, Trump’s teflon coating has been much more effective than Gotti’s and there’s no chance in Hell that he’ll ever see the inside of a prison cell.

  193. 193.

    Tony G

    @Dan B: “Southern Baptist Convention”.  Those are the Baptists that split off from the other American Baptists in 1845 because they were in favor of slavery.  Deeply evil people, then and now.  Of course they’re involved, as an institution, in sexual assault.  America “journalists” should never refer to the Southern Baptist Convention or to one of its “leaders” without at least parenthetically mentioning the organization’s support of slavery.  Every one of the members of that group is choosing to be part of an evil organization.

  195. 195.

    kalakal

    I’ve been to HMP Rampton which is high security psychiatric hospital in England.

    Very secure, very depressing. It has an Enhanced Personality Disorder Unit that would be the very place. The UK is a bit short of cash thanks to Brexit. Just call it a trade deal and they’d lap it up

  200. 200.

    Jackie

    @TS: On msnbc it was speculated it might have been for a different pardon, maybe J6 related?, that wasn’t used.

  205. 205.

    eversor

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    We know he took shit related to nuclear weapons, SIGINT, and a damn NOC list.  This is penalty by death level stuff.  Multiple people here hold all sorts of clearance levels for various reasons and others can chime in as well but we are so far past stupid we are in “why hasn’t he been shot and thrown off Key Bridge in Rosslyn” level area.

    We are well in SAP, SCI, Q, TS, Yankee White level idiocy now.  He fucking stole the documents on the French president as well.  Like, how in the hell?

  206. 206.

    Bill Arnold

    Librarians almost kept me from graduating from college; they were not amused by my extended-borrowing habits. :-)
    If the actual documents that were illegally taken to and stored at Mar-a-Lago are of the sort conjectured about, I do not see how Trump spins away from this with his political influence intact. He might retain his freedom, but perhaps not that, either. I mean, Reality Winner spent a lot of time in prison for revealing that Russia had probed US election systems in 2016(?) (and exposing methods in the process). And Trump signed a law felony-criminalizing what he appears to have done after he signed the law.

    Tagging this phrase: “Green Moon Event”.  Depends on what the Feds conclude about motivations, (May be related to this image about a hurricane. (alt link) :-) )

  209. 209.

    tokyokie

    @CaseyL: I think a couple of buildings at Alcatraz should be refurbished and brought up to specifications and that he should be held there for the remainder of his life.

  210. 210.

    different-church-lady

    Repost from downstairs:

    There’s a kind of flow chart for this:

    *He didn’t do it

    *He did it, but it’s not illegal

    *He did it, and it’s illegal, but it’s not all that bad

    *Okay, it’s really bad, but OTHER PEOPLE DID IT MORE! (This is the step we’re at.)

    *He did it, it’s illegal, it’s really bad, and HE’S GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT AND THAT MAKES HIM MORE AWESOME THAN EVER!!1!

  211. 211.

    hilts

    Trump’s latest bullshit explanation regarding his stash of classified documents:

    As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time. American presidents are no different. President Trump, in order to prepare the work the next day, often took documents including classified documents to the residence.

    He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the president of the United States.

    The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat with classification authority delegated by the president needs to approve the declassification is absurd.

    h/t https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trumps-office-issues-statement-claiming-he-gave-a-standing-order-that-automatically-declassified-any-documents-he-took-home-with-him/

  213. 213.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @MisterForkbeard:

    what do we think the punishment realistically could be for Trump for this? They’re not going to throw a former president in jail (for security reasons, and for optics).  I figure… at most, House Arrest with his internet access locked down, no/rare interviews and kept under constant surveillance.

    Trump should banished to one of these three places:

    Bouvet Island is a subantarctic volcanic island, situated in the South Atlantic Ocean at the southern end of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, making it the world’s most remote island.

    The Kerguelen Islands are a group of islands in the sub-Antarctic constituting one of the two exposed parts of the Kerguelen Plateau. They are among the most isolated places on Earth, located more than 2,100 miles from Madagascar.

    Tristan da Cunha is the most remote inhabited archipelago in the world.

  217. 217.

    Scout211

    @hilts: when the point man on any news story is John Solomon, you know it will be laughable.

    That story is one big fairytale.  “He waved the magic wand over all of his kingdom and possessions and they became declassified. It was magic! Oh, but he waved it before January 20th, 2021, he really did.”

  218. 218.

    MagdaInBlack

    You know, as dumb as he is, it’s very possible he had very little idea what in all was in those boxes. Who ever chose and packed it up did, though.  ( Hi Jared)

    Eta: Or did Melamine his handler do the packing?

  219. 219.

    hilts

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Dear sweet jeezuz, wtf is that bs??

    Reading this buffoonish explanation from camp Trumpenstein, I’m reminded of a David Steinberg joke.  After reading a student’s answer to an essay exam question that she concluded was bullshit, she wrote across the page: “Next  time, use a bigger shovel.”

  221. 221.

    hilts

    @Scout211:

    For me, the most ridiculous line is this one “everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time” because Trump was the laziest goddamn President we’ve ever had.  The notion of work is a completely alien concept to this Neanderthal.

  222. 222.

    different-church-lady

    @MagdaInBlack: I really have the feeling they just grabbed everything that was in the Oval Office at the moment, dumped it all in boxes and took it with them without any other thought or intention involved.

  224. 224.

    MagdaInBlack

    @hilts:Took his work home to Mar-A-Lago?  And as Hal Sparks keeps pointing out: it’s not a home, its an event venue. Anyone can rent space or buy their way in. He’s Howard Hughes living in his hotel. Enough already with this ” his estate” nonsense.

  225. 225.

    Scout211

    @hilts: True. That line was such a weak attempt to appeal to the “ordinary citizen.”  But added to your point is the blaring fact that ordinary citizens who retire from their companies don’t bring work home after they retire!  And they certainly don’t take company property home with them after they retire.  That would be theft!

  227. 227.

    Scout211

    @different-church-lady:  I suspect that those boxes of goodies were adding up and piling up for 4 years, items saved for possible use at a later date. They just didn’t think they’d have to remove them so quickly.

  228. 228.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Tristan da Cunha is the most remote inhabited archipelago in the world.

    I’d feel guilty inflicting Trump on the Tristanians, or whatever it is they call themselves.

  230. 230.

    hilts

    @MagdaInBlack:

    @Scout211:

    This statement is so absurd that the first time I read it I thought it must have been created by a staff writer for Trevor Noah or Stephen Colbert.  Good point about Howard Hughes.

    Trump’s advisers are going to get motion sickness from all of the idiotic spin they’re concocting to defend his indefensible actions.

  233. 233.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Scout211: ​Yet again, if I, or Eversor, or Omnes, or Raven, or Adam, or any of the various members of the Juicetariat who had access to classified documents (even Cole…he was the driver for a battalion commander, which means he had to have a CONFIDENTIAL clearance, minimum) took them home to work on them, they’d be facing charges. It is simply not done, no one who has ever held a clearance can buy into this without being a deranged MAGAt cultist.​

  234. 234.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @hilts: ​

    The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the president of the United States.

    This is simply untrue. Whoever classified it can unclassify it, with an explanation of why. Usually this is in the form of the “controlling authority” which can be an Army headquarters, or a Naval command, or something along these lines.

  235. 235.

    Pappenheimer

    @Kent: “Able was I ere I saw French Frigate Shoals…”  Hey, we used to stow chemical weapons there, and the call sign is FFS.

  237. 237.

    eversor

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Quasi true but I worked in compartments.  A lot of shit is classified by ask and a lot of shit is classified on creation.  As such there are rules about some of this.  Which is also why Trump can’t just “declassify nuke stuff in his head” which is the argument I see now, which, just, I don’t even know, what, wait, my brain broke.  No he can’t, that’s classed on creation and has an authority body.  Lord fucking knows I hate this bullshit and it is dumb and petty but you cant just think it’s not classified so it is and if you or I tried that argument they’d take us out back and Old Yeller us.

     

    I’m not sure what’s going on anymore because this is all far stupider than anything I’ve ever seen in my life.   Though “the nuclear plans aren’t classified cause he declassified them in his head” might just take the cake for “what in the hell?”?

  239. 239.

    brantl

    @TS: maybe he thought he could edit his copy, for when they found out ALL THE SHIT that Stone had done. He’s dumb enough to think that would work, isn’t he?

  241. 241.

    Bill Arnold

    @hilts:

    He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.

    Wait until Treason Team Trump realizes that they cannot prove that Joe Biden did not reclassify all such improperly declassified documents, in his mind, with a simple thought, shortly after taking the oath of office, when he gained the power to do so.

  242. 242.

    WaterGirl

    @Leto: Years ago when I worked with the Rape Hotline and Rape Crisis Services, we were advocates for women who had been raped.  We could go with them to the hospital, or to meet with the States’s Attorney, or to the hospital.

    I went to court with several women and this was a very common defense:  I didn’t have sex with her but if I did it was consensual.

    Ridiculous to any thinking person, but as long as but parts weren’t uttered in the same sentence the lawyers shamelessly used both arguments with the same jury, and they were okay with that.

    This seems very similar to that.  Whatever sticks, I guess.

  243. 243.

    J R in WV

    Actually, my Wife worked as a reference librarian in her second job after we were wed. Answered questions from people back before Google knew everything. Do not mess with her at all…
    ~
    Last governor who messed with her went to a Federal Prison camp in Alabama, where he wore an orange jumpsuit to do lawn maintenance. True, perhaps a coincidence, but.. . . ;~)

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