Looking at the front page of the Post this morning, I count six Cheney stories, and the latest is that she might run for President in 2024, since she said the following in her concession speech:
The great and original champion of our party, Abraham Lincoln, was defeated in elections for the Senate and the House before he won the most important election of all. Lincoln ultimately prevailed, he saved our Union and he defined our obligation as Americans for all of history.
Anyone who understands the current state of the Republican Party knows that a Cheney 2024 run ends with her being denied entry to debates, probably being expelled from the party, and likely becoming a spoiler who sucks votes away from Joe Biden. Need I point out that Liz got walloped by a clown last night? The only thing Republicans want from Liz and her dad is for them to go away, and Democrats should be concerned about her potential as a spoiler.
Setting aside her rather premature comparison to Lincoln, the Cheney problem isn’t really Liz. Rather, it’s the incredibly thirsty DC press that is chasing two windmills: the first is the notion that there’s a core of the Republican Party that’s upset with the current direction of the party, and the second is the view that a savior will rise from within the party to get it to tone down the racism and treason. The DC press wants the old Cheney Republican Party, with sensible policies like never-ending war, no social safety net, and forced birth after a reasonable interval of 6 weeks after conception.
Unlike the status quo aficionados in the press, the current Republican Party realizes that the only way they’re going to win is by openly and, if necessary, violently, stealing elections. They also want to energize a group of gravy seal incel commandos who will shoot at FBI agents, do violence to the minority and LGBTQ communities and generally promote an agenda of the stupidest among us via stochastic terrorism and gun fetishism. They are the dumb and mean party, a group that enjoys wallowing in their stupidity and forcing it upon the rest of us. The only thing these numbskulls understand is winning and losing, so they need to lose long and hard in order to change their ways. They certainly can’t be rescued by someone who needs help from Democrats to eke out 28% of the vote in a primary.
Edited to add: I see that Paul Campos at LGM thinks that a Cheney 2024 third-party Presidential run would siphon votes away from voters who would otherwise support Trump. I don’t agree. I think she’d give wobbly Republicans who might otherwise hold their nose and vote for Biden a place to stash their vote.
Baud
QFT.
cintibud
Oh great, another Cheney thread
JPL
@cintibud:🤨🤣🤣🤣
Jeffro
Have to agree, MM.
It’s long past time for the media to wake up. Catherine Rampell, normally insightful and sensible, in her column yesterday actually asked, “is there nothing trump can do that will make Republicans abandon him?” NO, Catherine. Are you kidding us? It’s 2022. Most of us figured out that the GQP was going to follow him all. the. way. down. the spiral back in 2015-2016. That’s 6+ years where our snooze media could have been reporting on the rolling festival of degradation and slime that the Republican Party has become.
They’re domestic terrorists trying to overthrow our government. Any reporting that doesn’t note this is wasting people’s time.
Scout211
I disagree. I think it’s fine to talk about Cheney, Cheney, Cheney right now. Using Cheney in news stories about the Republican Party seems to make it more okay for journalists to criticize the crazy in the Republican Party. They don’t seem to be able to do that when it’s just MAGA Republicans vs. Democrats. It’s more a both sides contrast. And Cheney vs. the MAGA wing is still both sides, but both sides of the Republicans in disarray story.
Shalimar
I’m not sure there are Republicans who would vote for Biden. After 35 years of “Democrats are always evil” propaganda, the best you can hope with Republicans is convincing them to not vote.
different-church-lady
And I used to think Loomis was the only outright idiot at LGM…
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Scout211:
I’m in the category of thinking that this is an awful development, and shows Republican cowards that the way to go is to grovel before the forces of Trumpism while turning up the shrieks and howls.
A decade from now, the Joint Powers Occupation of the Former United States will name Liz to serve in a ministerial post in a provisional government, with the idea of drafting a new organizational document with a unicameral parliamentary legislature and weak executive. She’ll help administer the repair of civil war damaged urban infrastructure in the South, Rust Belt and Midwest.
Relatively undamaged areas along the East and west coasts will continue to be guarded by their own national guard and police units as multinational peacekeeping forces continue to pacify interior areas of the country.
different-church-lady
@Jeffro: The media just can’t bring themselves to call the GOP what it has now become: a cult of personality.
Kropacetic
Any once-Republicans who would vote for Biden, or any Dem, likely changed parties years ago.
Man, looking at those Wyoming election results. Cheney got trounced and she still got more than ten times as many votes as the winning D candidate.
different-church-lady
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Except she’ll be one of the first ones the rebels murder.
eversor
Saying Liz shouldn’t run or spoiler is like saying RBG shouldn’t have quit under Obama instead of hoping for Clinton. It may be right, but it’s still sexist.
Baud
@Kropacetic:
Go Grey Bull!
CaseyL
A WaPo editorial a few days ago pointed out that the Bush-Cheney Admin (until Trump, the Worst Ever) planted the shoots of maladministration, corruption, norm- and law-breaking that flowered under Trump.
Cheney-the-Veep was the architect of all that.
Cheney-the-Rep, it should be noted, supported everything Trump did, stopping only at the insurrection itself.
I appreciate her work on the J6 Committee, but weep no tears for her losing her seat.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@different-church-lady:
My money is on Lizardbreath. She’d choke out whatever Meal Team Six goons showed up with her bare hands.
satby
@eversor: oh, poor thing, you have no grasp of anything do you?
A statement that would be true regardless of the gender of the person the statement is about is not sexist just because the named person’s gender is female. And does not compare to the vilification heaped on RGB when she did what scores of men have done before her, and died in office.
Joe Falco
Open Thread so my focus today is on Giuliani’s highly anticipated appearance in Georgia to testify before a grand jury as part of the Fulton County DA’s probe. I haven’t seen any pictures, but was he seen in a wheelchair and on oxygen given him claiming he’s still “recovering” from whatever medical procedure he had earlier this summer? Perhaps he’ll feel the need to flee the country before his passport is taken as well.
eversor
@CaseyL:
Not supporting her now is like screaming RBG shouldn’t have resigned rather than give the R’s a seat on SCOTUS. Technically correct, but sexist. And the latter part matters more.
Kropacetic
@satby: You were able to parse that?
Betty Cracker
@Scout211: That makes sense to me. I also find the implicit longing for the return of a “normal” Republican Party that wanted to wage war forever, shred the social safety net, lard the SCOTUS w/ FedSoc drones to deregulate business, subjugate women, etc., nauseating.
But we live in a country where about a third of our fellow citizens want a Christo-fascist authoritarian state. Anything that prevents them from gaining power is a GOOD thing. To the extent that coverage that contrasts Trumpists with Cheney elevates awareness of that, I’m all for it.
eversor
@satby:
She’s the only SCOTUS judge that people got tatoos of. Spare me the bullshit tales of horrible treatment of the only SCOTUS judge people get tatooed on them. You poor thing.
MattF
I’ll just note that it was through commenting about Papa Cheney that I learned to spell ‘fascist’.
satby
@ever sore: you’re as clueless about sexism as you are about religion. Begone!
Edmund Dantes
@CaseyL: Dick Cheney’s minority report on the Iran contra scandal is a piece of work too.
different-church-lady
A) pie
b) ignore
c) play with like a mouse
Decisions, decisions…
Another Scott
She said she will work to stop TFG. I don’t see how that means that she’s going to be a candidate herself.
This “Is X going to run for President?!” stuff is as old as modern political reporting. It’s lazy.
Of course she has no chance at the GQP nomination in 2024. (Even if TFG keels over or is in Leavenworth, the MAGA horde is still out there.)
3rd-party / independent stuff is very, very rare. Perot made it work because he had the money. Which billionaire would fund her for 2024? There isn’t one AFAICS.
But, we’ll see…
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
I have absolutely no concerns about Cheney as a spoiler. None.
satby
@Kropacetic: I have experience with the demented. Unfortunatly.
Kropacetic
@satby: I’m pretty sure its algorithm is on the fritz.
I, myself, am a purveyor of inscrutable sentences. I look at that and really just don’t understand what its saying.
gvg
I disagree. I think her type does siphon votes from the crazy republicans and not from democrats.
Look we are used to our own party being a coalition of different interests that try to stick together because apart we have no influence and we all lose.
But the republican party is also a coalition. It’s just not as obvious lately. We knew there was the religious and the money coalition. Unspoken was the racism and misogyny. The money was also kind of an anti tax coalition but there is also a stability in financial matters part of it that gives democrats so leverage. Roe falling is putting some cracks in some of it. Some of them aren’t quite that far gone now they are looking it in the mirror. In fact the reality of the policies is shaking some assumptions up. There was also a foreign policy part of the republican coalition, an assumption of patriotism and a strong loyalty to America which was not very real for a lot of them but was for some and that is going to peel some off, especially if we get some trials and charges. I think we need more than just Trump though. I think we need…….some others. I have suspected for some time that it wasn’t just Trump and not even just the ones around him. Suspicion is not proof though.
I don’t think it’s just the US either. In fact I think some other places it is worse.
Anyway, If the GOP loses like 3 or 4% of all it’s voters all accross the country, it will start losing a lot of elections for quite awhile. That will change city, county and state governments as well as Federal which will really change things. So Liz types standing up and taking some can make a big difference even if they lose for now. Someone has to start doing it. I do wish she was a better person in other ways.
satby
@different-church-lady: c) is only fun for two tries. Gets old fast.
Kropacetic
C. Always C. You always get the most revealing comments that way.
Besides, you’re good at it.
different-church-lady
@Kropacetic: Yeah, but I haven’t had my coffee yet.
Matt McIrvin
I am finding Paul Campos increasingly hard to read–he thinks he has an unerring ability to predict the future even though his track record is pretty bad.
His last great idea was that Biden should strategically dump Kamala Harris because Biden is too old, and somebody other than Harris would have better poll numbers if Biden died or had to step down. It’s pure pundit brain.
kindness
It’s absurd to think Cheney runs in 2024. Where is she going to get the funding to do so? She can’t dig up that kind of coin, so don’t waste time on her. She isn’t our problem.
MattF
I think the few people who would vote for Cheney rather than a Trumpist would never vote for a Democrat. The would-be spoilers are a minority of a minority of a minority.
Kropacetic
@different-church-lady: That’s why I leave half a case of Red Bull in the fridge before I go to bed at night.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
Agree. As far as presidential politics goes, she’s the new Kasich.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: Except for Nexon, Trump broke all the other male brains over there.
Brachiator
OT. Film director Wolfgang Petersen has passed away, age 81. He had an interestingly varied filmography: Das Boot (an amazing, tension inducing film about a German sub in WW2), Troy, The Neverending Story, Air Force One, and an underrated and quirky science fiction film called Enemy Mine.
different-church-lady
@Kropacetic: You’re Tony Jay and I claim my five pounds.
gvg
The key is for democrats to keep sticking together while republicans start fighting. If we can do that, we can win. Keep telling people that.
Matt McIrvin
@different-church-lady: It’s always great when we get a top post from Shakezula or Cheryl Rofer.
Baud
@gvg:
👍
Kropacetic
Not I. I’m from New England, not Old England.
different-church-lady
@gvg: So you’re saying we’re doomed?
different-church-lady
@Kropacetic: Fine, I claim my decimalized five pounds.
JR
@satby: If Souter didn’t retire, he would have been getting it in the ear on a daily basis. And rightfully so. There are no heroes. I don’t give a fuck about the individual Supreme Court justices, only their votes count. Republicans have known this for a long time. Once upon a time, Democrats did too.
lowtechcyclist
I’m not gonna worry about what Liz Cheney’s next act is until after the midterms. Eyes on the prize, and all that.
Kropacetic
No, we need to start a movement. Every D and loosely D affiliated should hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Let’s start here, spread word across the blogosphere.
That appears to be $6.04. You take Cashapp? I always round up to cover the fee.
different-church-lady
Getting tattoos of famous people is just… fucking… weird.
Elizabelle
@JR: I was so relieved when Breyer went.
Thank you for your service, and thank you even more for getting a clue.
If we give Biden a big enough majority, maybe we can see some Supreme Court reform. Expand it, and term limit the justices.
To not reform the USSC means working so hard to achieve an accomplishment and then — poof! The Trump “justices” destroy it.
germy shoemangler
Will Cheney still participate in the Jan. 6 hearings or is she now disqualified (not holding public office and all)? I saw a comment elsewhere saying she’d still be on the panel. Is this true?
different-church-lady
@germy shoemangler: She remains a rep until January.
germy shoemangler
@different-church-lady:
I hope to see many more Jan. 6 committee hearings in Sept., Oct. Nov., etc.
Leto
@germy shoemangler: she’s still in office until her replacement is sworn in, so she’s still on the J6 Committee.
germy shoemangler
@Leto:
Her replacement sounds like a loon to me, but I wonder how much of that is calculated ambition vs. actual delusion?
Noskilz
It is quite bizarre, and does underscore how unable or unwilling much of our commercial media is to deal with the situation facing it: the only way Cheney differs from the rest of the GOP is that she both thinks that overthrowing the government for Donald Trump is a bad thing AND is willing to do something about it.
Don’t get me wrong, that’s a pretty significant difference, and good for her, but that doesn’t really alter all the other stuff she’s perfectly willing to sign off on.
Some of it is probably just that she’s the flavor of the month for due to the hearings and now with this primary loss, so I’ll be curious how much of this attention persists once she’s out of office. I expect she’ll turn up on CNN poking her former colleagues the way Michael Steele does, but is that going to matter?
MomSense
She isn’t going to run third party. I think she is betting on DOJ decapitating the party and then swooping in.
Jeffro
It’s funny to see all the “Cheney 2024?” speculation, all the different takes, all the guessing by pundits and what not. “There’s THIS path!” “No, HERE’s what would happen!” LOL
To an outsider, it must look like Americans seem to have only one way – one vote for one office – to express their feelings, vent, focus all of their political efforts, and pick the person who will magically run the entirety of our government (as well as being responsible for gas prices, inflation, and so on).
The rest of the world is like, “You do know that you have states, local governments, other branches of government, the ability to form other organizations, the ability to act on your own, and so on, don’t you? It’s not just about one person filling one office…right?”
But no – we just get endless speculation on “Cheney 2024”. Sigh.
cain
Liz’s bet is this – one day, Trumpism is going to collapse and she’ll be one of the architects of that. At that point, the GOP is going to look for someone who hasn’t been touched by Trump and that is going to be Liz and Adam Kinzinger. It might not happen in 2024, I think Liz plays the long game.
She’ll be back, and I think the GOP will at one point have no choice but to pick her.
Baud
@Jeffro:
Agree.
Geminid
@germy shoemangler: Cheney’s a Representative until a couple days after the New Year, when the new Congress is sworn in. That’s when the select J6 Commitee will lapse (the new Congress could revive it). So she’ll participate in Commitee work until then.
Since it’s future in the next Congress is in doubt, I expect the Commitee will wrap up its work this year. They will submit a very fat report that will contain a lot of material not addressed in public hearings.
cain
@Noskilz: I would argue that – Wyoming probably is in full support of whatever Cheney is signing off. I don’t know if that is personally how she feels about these things. But that state is a shit hole state.
waspuppet
Which is exactly what the Trump Party is (except when it comes to Russia, of course, where they roll over and show their bellies). Our political press have no problem with Trumpism; like Liz Cheney, they’d just prefer they pass the laws to make another Jan. 6 unnecessary.
And as for Cheney herself, let her spend the next four months campaigning for Democrats, and I’ll consider letting her on the bus.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@different-church-lady:
Heh heh, it took me a while to figure it out, but nope, Lemieux is a bigger idiot and Campos of late hasn’t been far behind. I’m still scratching my head about Rofer’s move there.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I think the front pagers get paid there.
wegners shoppers club member mistermix
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I’m not.
satby
@JR: I was replying about sexism, not the relative merits of justices retiring or croaking in office. Previous justices who died in office were not vilified for it because they were male and the appointment is for life, whether or not it was convenient for their original political party. We can be unhappy RGB gambled (and lost) on hanging on so Clinton could appoint a successor without vilifying her. She was capable and writing incisive opinions/ dissents until her last days. I think her retiring earlier and assuming Obama would have been allowed by Moscow Mitch to appoint a successor rewrites a bit of history, as Merrick Garland would probably point out.
Greg
No Democrat will vote for Cheney. Not with her position on abortion. Or the environment. Or on any other Democratic priority. She will only take votes from the Republican nominee. Those that have to hold their nose and close their eyes to vote for Trump will have a place to put that vote. Granted, it is not a +2 to the Democratic nominee, but +1 is a good result.
Imagine 10 voters, 5 R, and 5 D. With Liz in the mix, you might get 5 Dem, 4 Trump, 1 Liz (+1). That is a win, even if it is not one R flipping, and giving 6 Dem, 4 Trump (+2).
rikyrah
Cheney lost.
Do I care?
No.
She voted consistently against MY rights.
So, phuck her.
Gin & Tonic
@Jeffro: That other stuff is boring.
rikyrah
@Jeffro:
NOTHING BUT TRUTH
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: Most other democracies actually have far fewer things they vote for–most things depend on a general election that happens every several years where you’re effectively voting for which party you support, and that’s it. (I think the complexity of US elections effectively works as a vote-suppression tactic.)
I find that, because of this, foreigners are more likely to misunderstand the way American elections work than Americans are. Partisan voter registration is particularly mystifying–they’ll think the US government forces you to tell it how you’re going to vote in advance.
MomSense
@satby:
Yup. I’m also so fucking sick of all the attention being on the big names at the top. Liberal/progressive voters are to blame. The courts were on the ballot in every election. Too many didn’t care enough. Now they want Biden to fix it. Fuckem.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
The MSM wants that, wrapped in the Frank Luntz-approved language. They miss it. They want it back. That language gave cover to all the dogwhistles that they pretended not to notice.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
“a cult of personality.”
a cult of absolutely shitty personalities.
FIXIT for you.
nasruddin
@Jeffro: “is there nothing trump can do that will make Republicans abandon him?”
I have a feeling some of them are still going to be voting for him after he’s dead.
Ruviana
@Joe Falco: Not sure if you’re joking but Soledad O’Brien saw him in the hotel restaurant where she was eating last night. Via Twitter.
nasruddin
@Greg: Inclined to think you’re right. The number of votes she will siphon off is quite small (see Tue nite finals) but if you believe in the Lincoln Project strategy that might be enough in states that matter.
Kropacetic
Not that trading in the dogwhistles for a bullhorn changed the tenor of MSM coverage.
satby
@Jeffro: We have only to look at how our media covers politics to see why: there’s very little news analysis of how legislation and government policies affect the public and most coverage is positioned as a ongoing game of “Congress” vs “President”. Congress as a whole, not the repetitive party line votes, so that Republicans routinely get away with claiming credit for public benefits they voted against. The recent PACT act was a divergence in coverage primarily because a high profile, uncivil celebrity was willing to go on every media outlet that would have him to call out the bad faith of the Republicans voting against it.
Also agree with @Matt’s take at #74
Geminid
@Greg: A average set of voters now would be 4D, 3R, and 3 Independent. At least, that’s about how party registration numbers are nationally.
But I don’t think Cheney will run third party or Independent in a general election. The signs so far are that if she runs it will be as a Republican, a “kamikaze” primary candidate against trump.
Jeffro
@Gin & Tonic: my bad, I forgot to add that the presidency must also excite and serve an entertainment function for the country as well. ;)
We really should raise the actual requirements for president, by, like, a LOT. (and in a hurry, too, before we get President Swift or President “The Rock” Johnson). I’d love it if every two-bit glory hound and grifter knew that there was no point in running for our nation’s highest office in order to promote their upcoming album or movie…’cause they hadn’t already served a couple of terms as Rep or Gov, disclosed a decades’ worth of taxes, passed a basic security clearance, etc.
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
“I appreciate her work on the J6 Committee, but weep no tears for her losing her seat.”
Is her opponent better or worse than her? Because as conservative as she is, she doesn’t seem to have picked up every tick of her fathers politics. IOW is her opponent far worse or a tiny bit better? I’d bet, given current day conservative politics and that her opponent is a trumper and therefore is a lot worse.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
Sure. He got booed for telling his fans to get vaccines, for example, but he dropped that quick. There’s nothing Trump wants to do that will make Republicans abandon him. Fuck, they’ve been saying Democrats stole every election for decades, Trump just pushed it the way no Republican president has until now. They barely care about him kowtowing to Putin as long as Russia is their ally against the queers and the darkies. They liked his gross stupidity and crassness. Put any name and any Republican up there and the base would punish anyone who sided with Democrats against Republican malfeasance. Trump isn’t doing things that drive Republican voters away, he’s doing things they have been screaming for other Republicans to do.
Matt McIrvin
@different-church-lady: Loomis is a guy who is very knowledgeable and smart about one thing, namely labor issues and labor history. Unfortunately he talks about all sort of things. His extreme doomerism on environmental issues (basically “nothing anyone does matters at all because capitalism still exists”) is, I think, actively harmful. And then there was the strange period when he went kind of YOLO/fatalist/minimizer on COVID, long before vaccines existed.
Mike in NC
Dick Cheney is probably a billionaire thanks to all those no-bid contracts Halliburton got from the Iraq war. His daughter will inherit a fortune. The end.
spc123
@different-church-lady: It’s hard to tell that would happen if she ran as an independent – I would rather she didn’t though just to be safe – it could go either way or have no impact whatsoever.
Ryan
She’d siphon money that’d otherwise go to the Lincoln Project also too.
Immanentize
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: LGM has a tightly controlled comment section. Off topic comments are deleted and some violators punished. Rofer did not like the free for all of the more democratic Balloon Juice. Also, she really hated that guy from Alaska.🙂
DaBunny
@eversor:
Seriously? Deciding not to support a hard-core conservative Republican because I disagree with her politics is sexist?? What the actual fsck?
Does this apply to all female politicians? Am I sexist because I don’t support Tulsi Gabbard? Sarah f-ing Palin??
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Also a much bigger audience for her area of expertise.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I liked the guy from Alaska. He was a music freak which is a good thing.
different-church-lady
@nasruddin: some of them will still vote for him even if he shoots them on Fifth Avenue.
different-church-lady
@DaBunny:
Pro tip: you’re the cat, not the mouse.
Immanentize
@satby: This is such an on-point, uh, point!
One of my favorite quotes was from Thurgood Marshall: “I was appointed for life and I intend to fulfill that appointment.” (He didn’t, but close).
I really believe the Breyer must go noise was just to cover for the absolute sexism of the anti-RBG crowd. She was on the Court over 7 years after they started blowing their Hieronymus Bosch horns at Ruth. And the work she did during those years was fabulous. Fuck them.
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
This.
Conservatives do not want the country that we want. For whatever reason, they believe that this country has gone in a very wrong direction, that no one other than pure white and pure racist should have any word whatsoever in running this country, making it’s laws, enforcing it’s laws, speaking out loud, any freedom whatsoever, that slavery was the highlight of the country and that the civil war was actually won by the better side, not the one that claimed it as a win.
Yes, that is bull and shit but that’s what they want the country to be, that they can get their hate and control on over all the scum that runs it now. Go back over the last 100 yrs and tell me of any republican president that wasn’t actually trump with better manners. They screwed up the country, did illegal crap, caused a depression, wars, crap economies, etc, etc. (Dwight D. may not belong in that list)
Jeffro
@Geminid: and after that, she can still run as a write-in. Unless some other Republican wins the nomination, and then she’ll revert to her old “principled” “conservatism”.
Oh well – kneecap trumpov any way you can, Liz!
Kay
Interesting. The new registers skew young, which isn’t surprising. It was incredibly patronizing and dumb to assume young women wouldn’t object the full set of rights and adult agency they grew up with.
Kropacetic
With a rare few “one of the good ones” exceptions. I think the main goal is conforming to their narrow view of culture, best described as “Leave it to Beaver” on a bad acid trip.
Immanentize
@MomSense: ooo, ooo. I didn’t mean to start that discussion (but I agree with you).
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Cheney said that she was considering a 2024 run for the presidency. The speculation did not come from nowhere.
I will note, however, that I have not read any of the stories. Just not interested.
Immanentize
@different-church-lady: or, another way to put it:
You are Billy Goat Gruff, not the uhm, what was it?
Poe Larity
The NYT Utah voter interview thing was interesting, all these Republicans talking about how hyperpartisan every side was, how they were reasonable, and Liz was a self-centered traitor monkey for only voting Trump 95% of the time.
They also were hurt they were underrepresented with two senators and a rep who actually sponsored/cosponsored legislation for a state with 1/6 of 1% of the US population.
Perhaps Liz and one of Stephen Douglas’ ancestors can get together and do a speaking tour through Illinois in the General Lee.
Kay
New York Times and WaPo ahould have invested in covering the aftermath of banning abortion instead of relegating it to tiny stories on the back pages. They misread the level public interest.
Hmmm. I wonder why they would decide it was not important?
Baud
@Kay:
Good.
Kropacetic
Well, she didn’t specify a year and only insinuated she would run. Then again, Republicans run on insinuation.
Immanentize
@Kay: I also saw a large D swing is happening, not among all men, but among men who are fathers. This is a nascent change that needs nurturing.
Ken
@Kay: I expect the Federalist Society is looking for Nineteenth Amendment workarounds.
Kropacetic
But enough about my Grindr account…
Kay
@Immanentize:
I can’t make the numbers make sense in that poll. There’s something wrong with it.
Immanentize
@Kropacetic: I had to look at the nym because I thought Baud wrote that. Respect.
Baud
@Kropacetic:
Baud!/Cheney! 20XX!: Bipartisanship for America!
Kropacetic
@Immanentize: Haha, thanks. I was posting very sparsely for a few years, so you’ve been spared a lot of jokes on my promiscuity.
Immanentize
@Kay: I agree the swing among “Dad’s” was so large it should have affected the “men” data more. But I think some positive change is nonetheless likely.
hueyplong
Aside from her good work on the J6 committee, the most important thing Cheney did is to make it clear beyond question that zero GOPers attempting to retain office will support her stand in any way. Zero.
She prevents FTFNYT and others from pretending that “decent Republicans” would stand up to Trump if only someone emerged and led them to the light. Someone attempted to do that. No one followed.
She got, what, 20% of the primary vote as an incumbent with impeccable right wing credentials and lineage? The already-proven cowardly officeholders in the GOP are probably furiously attempting to engage in further acts of supplication as we speak, fearful that someone in their district might tell Trump that they harrumphed at some point about something.
It’s pure misinformation to print those items about how anonymous GOPers don’t approve of Trump. If they have to be quoted as if they’re in witness protection, they don’t actually oppose Trump in any way that matters and it’s time the media stopped pretending they are anything other than sniveling cowards to a degree previously unimaginable.
Immanentize
@Kropacetic: please generally continue with that posting strategy of not over sharing.
Kay
@Baud:
I’m amazed they somehow discerned reproductive rights were at real risk in Wisconsin an Michigan given the lack of news coverage – they must have read it on Jezebel. Saw women talking about it in Twitter.
Kropacetic
@Immanentize: Oversharing is overcaring.
ETA: And it wasn’t an unwillingness to share that dropped my commenting rate. It was 2016. I assume no further explanation will be needed.
MomSense
@Kropacetic:
well played
Baud
@Kay:
They say young people don’t watch traditional news.
Ruckus
@Kropacetic:
I agree on the bad acid trip, but I’m not sure there is enough acid in the world to make their policies anything other than pure shit.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
There is some quote from Liz Cheny that she expects couple of election cycles of the GOP being crazy before they go back to stealth lizard man mode. I think she sees herself running for president in 2028.
cintibud
@MomSense: uh, who is the “guy from Alaska” ?
Kropacetic
Mike Gravel?
Ruckus
@hueyplong:
Why do you say it was previously unimaginable? The only real change in republican politics in my seven decades has been that they are more willing to shout out loud how shitty their shitty policies are. And while they have lost some support because of being more open, they have also gained more vocalization for the same reason.
cintibud
@Kropacetic: lol, if I was being stalked by a dead person I’d leave too!
Kropacetic
@cintibud: That may be the first time I ever laughed upon finding out someone died. All due respect to Mike Gravel.
Barbara
@Kay: There are many times when I look at anti-choice politicians and their MSM enablers who seem mystified that upending 50 years of “settled law” on abortion would not have electoral repercussions — My imaginary conversations with these people start with something like, “Women like to fuck. They don’t want to have to ask your permission on anything. Get over it.”
Just more evidence that there is a generational divide that is vast and deep.
cintibud
@Ruckus: (sigh) I lost a close boating buddy of mine from Tennessee. I knew he was a Republican but we never talked politics and he always seemed to be a kind and caring person. When dump was elected it was like a switch flipped and his freak flag waved proudly. I really miss the person I though he was
Ksmiami
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: My new slogan: “Vote out Republicans – they’re unsafe in any seat.”
J R in WV
@satby:
This guy is the first person I pied on my tables, where it’s much harder than on my laptop. Just do it, you will never miss anything substantive, just repulsive ranting and drool.
Ksmiami
@Kay: our national media- owned by a few male billionaires is an utter disgrace.
Barbara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The party might change. God, I hope it moves in some kind of less toxic direction, but I am doubtful that it will change back to what Cheney saw as her birthright. The essential problem has always been that there is not actually majority support for a party that prioritizes low taxes for wealthy people and ganging up on actual working people. Hence, the resort to the intertwined racism and culture war issues. It might be a distraction, it is certainly pandering to their worst impulses, but it is a key component for victory just about anywhere, and certainly in any large state.
Ksmiami
@cintibud: Seems like even more than other southern states, Tennessee has gone off the deep end of crazy recently despite all the growth and Nashville’s cultural resurgence.
trollhattan
BBC WS has been running the Cheney story up top along with the Kenyan election kerfuffle (was it stolen? let’s ask!)
They chose to interview a former Trump staffer and a Newsmax “analyst” to dig deeper into the meaning of the Cheney drubbing. Thanks for that, BBC, I learned so much.
Immanentize
@Kropacetic
@cintibud:
Sarah Palin?
different-church-lady
@Kay: “Will there be a backlash against Republicans after the fall of Roe? We asked these four white men in a diner in rural Michigan…”
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
This was the working assumption without regard to political ideology for most of the early years of the country. Although some leaders could accept the idea of a more diverse nation in principle, the reality presumed a nation run by a small group of white men of property.
There were negative reactions to the immigration and influence of the Irish, particularly Catholics, and to Eastern European immigrants and others.
And dealing with African Americans and immigrants from non European countries was a whole nother thing.
But varieties of noxious nativism has been something that always rises up and has to be resisted. Even Ben Franklin at one early period raised doubts about the ability of German immigrants to become assimilated.
And oh yeah, the name Donald became popular with German Americans because they were trying to prove that they were real Americans as a result of a nasty rise of nativism in the years around World War 1. In the UK, the German royal family magically became the Windsors, so they weren’t immune either.
Most recently, the most noxious nativists were around long before Trump, but found that he was a natural ally. Tucker Carlson and some other Fox News personalities, were always pushing this stuff, but were finally able to get it into the political conversation again as Trump demonized Hispanic immigrants and insulted immigrants from “shit-hole” countries.
Immanentize
@trollhattan: they have a very clear flow chart/algorithm to follow:
Was the election stolen? …
Did the right wing autocrat win? NOT STOLEN
Did someone other than the right wing autocrat win? PROBABLY STOLEN
trollhattan
@hueyplong: And as an utterly doctrinaire Republican (something like 95% voting in the House for Trump bills) the net legislative effect of electing the nutty sounding Trixie instead will be about zero.
She’ll still have her knife collection, but won’t have the stage on which to use them.
rikyrah
@eversor:
Not supporting Liz Cheney, is sexist?
FOH
Woman never met a right of mine that she didn’t try to strip away, and/or never defended.
Phuck that trifling trick.
Ken
“…who were having a quick lunch before returning to their Knights of Columbus conference at St. Anthony Tridentine Catholic Church.”
hueyplong
@Ruckus: I say it not about their shitty policies (agree they’ve been horrible for decades) but about the craven worship of a narcissistic, authoritarian leader in a diaper with orange makeup. That’s what I considered unimaginable, in my apparent naivite.
J R in WV
@lowtechcyclist:
I’m not gonna thing about it until at least next January, and probably not then. She will let us know when we should start to worry, and it will be unmistakable to all of us.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Hmmm. I wonder why they would decide it was not important?
Honestly?
Because, you can’t BOTH SIDES IT.
There is ONE PARTY that clearly is trying to take women back 100 years.
And ONE PARTY defending the rights of women.
There is no mushy middle.
There is a wide chasm.
artem1s
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I think The Village sees her replacing Harris on the ticket in 2024.
rikyrah
@Ken:
Make getting an abortion a FELONY
Who gets prosecuted?
WOMEN
FELONS CAN’T VOTE IN A LOT OF STATES
THERE is your workaround.
Geminid
@Brachiator: One significant fact about Nativism and the Republican Party: the nativist American (Know Nothing) Party dissolved itself in 1860, and most of it’s adherents migrated to the Republican Party. Their political descendents are there today.
Edmund Dantes
@JR: and Breyer got it in the ear for not retiring too. Until he finally relented. Which coincided with some truly farcical rulings by the 5 that showed they were truly in the fuck you cause we say so law land that even he couldn’t ignore it anymore
@JR:
Immanentize
@rikyrah: still, there is this, at least in Pennsylvania!:
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
I liked this so much I wanted to see it again, with a little new trim. Thanks rikyrah, a touchdown post if ever there was one!
Barbara
@rikyrah: Or, you know, they are still run by men. As are most media companies. To understand the impact of this, the best example I can think of is the dimwit NBC guy (Jeff Zucker?), who hired Megyn Kelly away from Fox to host a post-Today talk show. He somehow decided that Megyn Kelly would appeal to daytime tv viewers because she appealed to him. As if the mostly under the age of 65 female viewing demographic would have tastes that were identical to Zucker’s. That’s how clueless most of them are. They really don’t see themselves as biased. They see themselves as defining whatever standard is in place for everyone. Even when that bias is obvious to many people and a complete detriment to the organizations they are supposed to be making profitable.
Soprano2
@Another Scott: Plus, people forget how hard it is to get on the ballot in some states. You can’t just show up and say “I’m running, put me on the ballot”.
rikyrah
Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) tweeted at 7:56 AM on Wed, Aug 17, 2022:
You know what would convince me that Liz Cheney is the ally everybody tells me she is? She could go to Ohio and campaign for Tim Ryan, or to Georgia to campaign for Raphael Warnock. She could work whatever moderate Republicans are left on behalf of Democrats.
Tick, tick, tick…
(https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1559886877934616576?t=BSbxTVrB6IwZXXfS4bZDXA&s=03)
catclub
@different-church-lady:
This. in 2020 there was no GOP party platform, only – whatever Trump wants. in 2016 the platform was adjusted by trump to back Russia versus Ukraine.
Immanentize
@Barbara: But that used to work! Like 40 years ago it worked! Don’t you just hate cancel culture? (Aka mortality?)
artem1s
@rikyrah:
Felons can’t run for office either. Murder has no statute of limitations. They will be conducting McCarthy-esque trials in every state making people take oaths about themselves and their sexual partners history for as long as they can get away with it. It will be a required statement on the filing papers to run for every office – “have you or anyone you know, ever had or participated in acquiring abortion services….”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
👍
This is awesome news and is proof that the backlash to Dobbs is very real
rikyrah
Jenn Wilson, Unhinged, middle aged, white woman (@THATMOMx4) tweeted at 10:33 PM on Tue, Aug 16, 2022:
Liz Cheney isn’t dead. She lost an election. She. Will. Be. Fine. Vote Democrat in the general. Then the rest of us can be fine.
(https://twitter.com/THATMOMx4/status/1559745196816048129?t=2nYrSAXZEZyVD0HlE175RQ&s=03)
J R in WV
@Ruviana:
And does anyone know where the hotel were Soledad was eating is located? NY or GA?
artem1s
@rikyrah:
bingo!
hueyplong
@rikyrah: I don’t think Charlie has thought through what last night showed w/r/t Cheney’s ability to marshal “reasonable” or “moderate” Republican support.
I bet if she offered to show up on behalf of Ryan his campaign would politely decline and ask her to avoid Ohio at all costs.
J R in WV
@DaBunny:
regarding eversore, just pie that jerk, no contribution to any conversation, no point in even seeing those posts! Not only doesn’t think about issues very well, also can’t write a grammatical sentence to save their life.
Kropacetic
@J R in WV: Pie doesn’t work for all of us. I’ve pied one person ever and I found myself constantly manually overriding it to read her comments anyway.
However, I can think of a couple instances where earnest engagement with trolls prompted behavior that resulted in the banhammer being brought down by the high muckymucks.
Ruckus
@hueyplong:
That narcissistic asshole said all the quiet parts out loud. He showed them they didn’t have to hide their racism and hate. Hateful and proud of it. That second part is the new thing, being loud and proud of being a hateful asshole. They have always been there, it’s part of humanity. We are all capable of this, we just have decided that we don’t like that and aren’t going to accept it. They just found out that being hateful, racist shit and proud of it was finally acceptable, at least on one side of the aisle, because of SFB.
rikyrah
THIS!
Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@QasimRashid) tweeted at 8:57 PM on Tue, Aug 16, 2022:
FYI—Liz Cheney opposed the Voting Rights Act, min wage increase, Equality Act, Equal Rights Amendment, George Floyd Act, BBB, Infrastructure bill, Inflation Reduction Act, $35 Insulin bill, Women’s Health Protection Act, anti-gas price gouging bill—& voted w/Trump 93% of the time
(https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1559721007459573760?t=G8s_e2rfOB1_x7B_ymFUXw&s=03)
hueyplong
@Ruckus: It’s possible I was just naive.
Geminid
@hueyplong: Ryan’s already doing a good job appealing to the more moderate Republicans and Independents anyway.
Paul in KY
@Shalimar: There were Repubs who voted for Pres. Biden in 2020.
rikyrah
Reecie @BlackWomenViews (@ReecieColbert) tweeted at 0:24 AM on Wed, Aug 17, 2022:
The Democratic Party doesn’t owe Liz Cheney shit just because she hates Trump and supports the January 6th committee like every Dem in Congress. She is not a martyr. Folks never have this low bar ass energy towards Dems & especially not Black women.
https://t.co/Bos0fFHCUX
(https://twitter.com/ReecieColbert/status/1559773052262617088?t=Z7Qmjc6ix_NuH7yGU58Q5w&s=03)
Paul in KY
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Can we wait 30 years for that? Please?
Kropacetic
Some people get very protective of “reasonable” Republicans. Perhaps an artifact of our support for the endangered species act. See also: Charlie Baker.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I did not care for him at all, but nothing I saw in the comments sections warranted a ban. Then again, one of the things I like here is the general free for all. I also don’t pie. Cheryl obviously was not comfortable here.
J R in WV
@Kropacetic:
I too must confess that I do toggle many people who I have pied to read their current comments. But not people I pie because they have hateful beliefs, like this new ever sore person. Do not care what they have to say.
Most folks I have pied actually were paid trolls (probably out of RU) who went away permanently pretty quickly. Others I de-pied which is as easy as putting them in the pie safe in the first place. Won’t ever be happening for ever sore.
Kropacetic
I would characterize the comments of the person I pied as “hateful.” Admittedly, she would be a lot harder to ignore than ever sore. She has a lot more of a presence here and has been here at least as long as I have (roughly 15 years).
Jim Appleton
@spc123: The cautious optimist in me looks for her not to run and to heavily support the D.
different-church-lady
@Kropacetic:
Well yeah, you gotta let them feel like they’re winning so that they really run full tilt into lose.
Kropacetic
Precisely. Give them enough rope to hang themselves with and all.
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: We’re only an afternoon away from seeing the “Dems are horrible for abandoning Cheney” op-eds.
Gravenstone
@eversor: You are indeed an utter moron. Doubling down on your stupidity only affirms it. Bye.
Gravenstone
@different-church-lady: Belittle plus A). So maybe A+?
Gravenstone
@germy shoemangler: The panel remains in force until the new Congress is sworn in next January. She’s not going anywhere before then.
StringOnAStick
@germy shoemangler: I mean towards outright loon. I’m surprised no one has pointed out that WY’s economy is almost entirely carbon extraction; strip mining coal in the east, oil and gas drilling elsewhere with a smattering of ranches/farms and tourism (Jackson Hole, the only blue dot in a sea of deep red). Of course they will elect a “clean coal” fronting loon, inadequate contact with reality is the base class status for anyone who makes a living in a field threatened by the need to eliminate carbon extraction in order to save the planet. Those extraction jobs pay quite well, and all you have to do to get down to someone’s core primal behaviour is threaten to hurt their money source/stash.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@wegners shoppers club member mistermix:
Yeah, I seem to remember that she got some really shabby treatment.
Kropacetic
One would think they’d like to be prepared when this industry inevitably dies. Pro-extraction policies may even accelerate this decline. Fossil fuels are, after all, a non-renewable resource.
Brachiator
@Geminid:
It is interesting that even though the Know Nothings in the North, especially, joined the Republican Party, their nativity was blunted by the anti-slavery sentiment of the GOP. The Wikipedia notes: “Many were appalled by the Know Nothings. Abraham Lincoln expressed his own disgust with the political party in a private letter to Joshua Speed, written 24 August 1855. Lincoln never publicly attacked the Know Nothings, whose votes he needed:”
Kropacetic
Prophetic.
Soprano2
@Kay: This is one reason why I think the R’s in the MO legislature are going to redouble their efforts to make it almost impossible for anyone to get an initiative or constitutional amendment on the ballot (except for themselves, they want to keep the current rules for the state legislature!). They know that if restoring abortion rights in some form makes it onto the ballot in MO, it will win, and they’ll be royally pissed about it.
catclub
@hueyplong:
I think a republican saying ‘do not vote for this Big lie election truther’ would have some value. It distinguishes from GOP candidates who can say the 2020 election was not stolen.
StringOnAStick
@Immanentize: I also agree. My years as a field geologist (half my working career) meant I ran into lots of “characters” and I’ve got a soft spot for them for sure.
Soprano2
They want to make the U.S. “comfortable” for themselves again. That means white straight Christian men in charge of most things (except the things women traditionally do, like raising children, teaching, nursing and administrative work), with women and non-white people knowing their place, gays back in the closet, and transgender people non-existent. That’s what they want, in the worst possible way, and some of them are willing to do almost anything to get that.
StringOnAStick
@hueyplong: Is it possible that Liz’s loss, by forcing the rest of them to more firmly attach to tRump’s butt, takes more of them down because of huge numbers of indictments of R politicians/actors in the next few weeks or months? Wouldn’t that be the ultimate in gilded court political machinations.
StringOnAStick
@Kropacetic: Ah, you’d think so, but you are rational. Ever spent much time talking to a worker in these industries? I have, and they assume the oil and gas party never ends (forgetting about every prior just that made them desperate to pay their debts) and there will always be enough pay for their latest ATV, jetski, snowmobile, toy hauler and associated giant pickup truck, while complaining loudly that their fuel costs are too high thanks to those damned D environmentalists. Of course their high salaries have zero to do with the cost of fuel. Not only do they not “believe” in global warming, they do stupid performative pissing like spraying a while can of carburator cleaner into the air to celebrate Earth Day. I saw that happen with someone just adjacent to the oil and gas;; the cult behaviour stuff was present there way back in the 1980’s.
Kropacetic
@StringOnAStick: I’m reminded of one encounter with a large truck perched at the outside access point to a corner gas station. As I pulled my little Prius through the intersection it got in front of me. It then proceeded to drive slowly, occasionally revving its engine to produce exorbitant amounts of black smoke. I had to drive so slowly to catch a healthful breath of air.
Gas was cheap then.
billcinsd
@Shalimar: I guess I don’t see why people think the objective of this sort of thing is Republicans. There are a large number of people that don’t really pay much attention to politics except for right around an election. These people could vote for either side depending on the situation. Giving them a third choice that the media will label as moderate, activates them to vote 3rd Party. Depending on the situation in October/November 2024, Cheney could easily split the anybody but Trump vote. About 2/3rds of Biden’s 2020 vote described their vote as against Trump rather than for Biden. About 30% of Trump voters said their vote was anti-Biden rather than for Trump. Thus, I think Biden may have more to lose than Trump by a Cheney run
@Shalimar:
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
IIRC, the specific comments that led to Alaskan Fisherman being banned were deleted because front pager thought they were hate speech at that time. I’m sorry, I do not recall his nym at this time, I’m terrible with names… Even real names let alone nyms on the innertube-web.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: he was banned for not in the comments stuff, which John I think mentioned, once, at the time. Don’t come at the king.