Do we know if it applies to grad schools? I took out $58k for my St. John’s LLM, which I am fully prepared to pay back. But I certainly wouldn’t mind paying back $48k instead.
waiting for the pre-talk hot mic message “we have learned that spies and terrorists have infiltrated the Mar-A-Lago compound, the bombing begins in 5 minutes”
8.
geg6
And I know there was a comment in the last thread complaining that the new repayment option is too complicated. That could only be said by someone who hasn’t had to navigate all the different payment options that have been put into place since the Obama administration. And who doesn’t know that every student loan borrower now has to complete exit counseling, which explains each plan in detail and also allows students to calculate their payments for each option. Not to mention all of the financial aid officers in all the colleges and universities all over the nation who will be explaining this to graduating students. Don’t underestimate us.
Students entering repayment will have all the information they need to take advantage of all of this. None of this existed when I was in college or grad school. I wish it had been.
9.
jackmac
This will lift a huge financial burden off my kids and our family. Thank you President Biden.
This is why we support and vote for Democrats. They get things done!!!
A quick glance says it’s mainly undergrads, but I haven’t read it closely enough to know for sure.
I do know that the public service loan forgiveness is for both undergrad and grad students.
11.
mali muso
Yay! Anything that helps students and families is a win in my book. I had Pell when I was a student and would have benefited tremendously from this, but I’m not going to be mad that I’ve already paid my loans off.
12.
trollhattan
Cars go vroom, then cars go boom, you can’t explain that.@KyivIndependent
Russian collaborator killed by car bomb in Zaporizhzhia. Russian collaborator Ivan Sushko, the Russian-appointed head of the occupied village of Mykhailivka in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, was killed by a car bomb on Aug. 24, Russian collaborator Vladimir Rogov wrote on Telegram.
13.
Urza
Think any of the whiny kids who lost interest in Biden for not cancelling student debt on 1/20/21 will be happy enough to vote now?
I don’t see how this harms people who paid off their loans. They pay taxes anyway. The money is better spent this way than in a bunch of other ways.
15.
Barbara
@Old School: Yeah, in my day too, when my out of state tuition was $800 per semester and all-in annual costs were around $6000. It now costs out of state students around $50,000 to attend the same school
ETA: Or, in shorter words, “tell me how old you are without telling me how old you are.” You could do worse than ask what your all-in costs of going to college were.
My limited view into such things is, so far, revealing interest and excitement, especially about the proposed rule.
17.
UncleEbeneezer
Anyone pearl-clutching today about the “outrage” of Biden’s modest loan repayment plan must be compelled to explain their silence when Trump foolishly started a trade war w/China & when it failed, announced a $16 BILLION BAILOUT to farmers. Actual cash.
18.
oldster
I paid off all my loans, my wife paid all her loans, we helped two kids all the way through so that they would not have to take out loans.
And I am delighted by this. It’s good politics and it’s the right thing to do.
People who demand that others should suffer as much as they did are bad people.
The top of their website is usually all about Ukraine and about Trump.
And how unpopular Biden is. And giving outsized consideration to anything that Republicans say or spin.
The FTF NY Times is a sick, sick, sick organization.
28.
dnfree
@geg6: We only had one child with undergrad student debt, graduating in 2003, and we as parents watched the situation like hawks. She only ever borrowed the maximum federal loan each year, and we took on no debt. I paid her interest (very small amounts) during the four years she was in college, and we helped her get set up for the 15-year repayment plan with loan consolidation. She paid it off in the 15 years, something just over $100 a month. No one explained any of this to her or to us. I just read all kinds of financial advice articles. It’s kind of criminal that this wasn’t explained to everyone. I’m glad to hear it is now.
On the other side of the coin, we have a relative now in his 40s with three children. He claims that back when he was in his twenties, a banker told him he’d never pay his school debts off, so he might just as well not pay at all. By the time he realized this was terrible advice, his loan had skyrocketed. I guess his parents must not have realized what he was doing, but neither of them went to college and I think they just didn’t understand how it worked.
29.
Kropacetic
@Elizabelle:The FTF NY Times is a sick, sick, sick organization.
You haven’t polished this Republican turd to a glossy enough sheen, liberal bias!!!
30.
Dangerman
Covers Grad School? If so, suddenly I don’t and won’t have a penny of debt outside of a mortgage (remaining GS was under 10k). Well, shit. Premium ice cream for lunch!
31.
zhena gogolia
I guess I missed that TFG called Chao “crazy” and when they asked Mitch about it he said he had no comment.
32.
Erieg
I am happy for those this will help. The issue I have is that this doesn’t address the root cause. I have seen lots of very happy people with student loans that will be helped but what about soon to be students who will be taking out the same loans? This does nothing for them.
My son will benefit from this but my daughter who goes to college in 2024 will be out of luck. I asked my son and his friend about the disparity and the response was “Thats her problem”
It’s totally different now. Before a new student’s loans can disburse, they have to complete loan entrance counseling, which is a very good explainer for new borrowers. At my campus, our First-Year Seminar has financial literacy as a major component. Then, when graduating, students complete the exit counseling which, unlike the entrance counseling, now has real numbers attached. I wasn’t a big fan of the Obama DoE, but implementing the entrance and exit counseling were pure good.
34.
Mimi
I know I’m old, but back in the day Pell was a grant, not a loan.
I work for a graduate program and never, ever talk about this stuff with the students because I don’t have to and I don’t want to make them cry.
35.
Ken
@zhena gogolia: Maybe McConnell and Cruz can start a club. Or since they don’t seem to care, maybe their wives will start one.
Oh, I understand it well enough. I can be a selfish, hateful bastard, too.
I just try not to base my entire political world view on being a selfish, hateful bastard, and then dressing up my spitefulness in the language of grievance and high dudgeon.
I cannot watch the President’s remarks at work, but the fact sheet I posted above did not exclude future borrowers from what I could see in a cursory glance. Did he specifically say that future borrowers are excluded?
Pell is still a grant and not a loan. The point is that the lowest income borrowers, those who qualified for the Pell Grant, will get the $20K forgiveness.
ETA: It may be confusing to you because you work with grad students. Grad students don’t qualify for Pell. And I sure hope that, at the very least, your financial aid people are discussing this with your students. Doesn’t matter if they cry or not. They need reality.
39.
Erieg
@geg6: I didn’t see it mentioned. What I read is that it is estimated to cost 300 billion which leads me to believe it’s a onetime thing.
72% of Black students received pell grants so this plan disprorprotionately benefits Black borrowers. This definitely has VP’s handprints on it. During her campaign she used pell grants as a way to target support for Black folks since you obviously can’t use race explicitly.
42.
SteveinPHX
Uncle Joe just kicked some ass! I have 2 kids in grad school and one that may start in a year or so. I’m not wealthy, so this helps me AND my kids.
Saw his comment dissing Chao a few days ago. I have no use for the woman, but that’s still a very shitty way to talk about a hand-picked member of your own Cabinet (for all but the last three weeks of your administration). Apart from everything else — the grift, the treason, the incitement to violence, the racism, the sexism, the stupidity, the craziness, the incompetence, the nepotism, etc. etc. etc. — TFG is simply not a nice person.
45.
geg6
I’m guessing I’ll have to wait for my NASFAA (National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators) newsletter to come out to tomorrow to get the finer details. It should be ready and waiting for me in my inbox when I come into work tomorrow.
46.
Erieg
I just read the fact sheet. I see a whole lot of pissed off high school seniors.
@Erieg: You remind me of the old joke about the guy who prays to win the lottery, and God shouts back “Meet me halfway! Buy a ticket!” Once the high school seniors actually have student loan debt, some of the provisions will apply to them.
EDIT: Or what WaterGirl said.
51.
Erieg
Yes, those High School seniors. Lowering the monthly payment is nice but it doesn’t help the original cost which is where the problem comes in. Great, they pay 5% instead of 10% of discretionary income. Thats nice but when you are looking at a state school that charges 20k a year its still a very large amount that they owe.
“Building off of these efforts, the Department of Education is announcing new actions to hold accountable colleges that have contributed to the student debt crisis.”
Ok, like what?
52.
raven
I owed $3300 in the last thread and still do! I wonder if old people are included?
53.
raven
@Erieg: And what exactly do you expect the feds to do about that?
54.
Omnes Omnibus
@Erieg: Golly, this one action did not solve the entire problem. I guess it was pointless, right? It was a positive step.
Jesus. Those high school seniors will have only 10 years of repayment and all loans forgiven.
As for debt beyond what the federal loan system allows a student to borrow over their lifetime ($31, 000 for dependent students and $57,500 for independent students), there is nothing Biden or Congress can do about that. Those students borrowed from private lenders. The private lenders can do what they want.
Maybe those high school seniors should look at a community college or a state school that costs a hell of a lot less than $20,000 a year. Since my university is considered one of the most expensive public universities in the nation, I would really like to know what schools are doing that. An in-state student here at any single one of our 24 campuses pays much less than $20K/year. Only out-of-state students pay that much here.
I am reminded of Senator Marsha Blackburn’s husband, Chuck, who got a cool $20k in PPP bailout money during the pandemic for his “consulting business.”
58.
Ksmiami
@UncleEbeneezer: and the bank bailouts and the GOP fakers that took ppp cash etc.
@oldster: I like Biden’s approach on this- targeted, smart and helpful. And no I don’t begrudge helping kids that were overwhelmed and overcharged on interest anyway. We need an educated population or we pay the price for an ignorant one.
Community College is now free in California. Spend two years there and transfer to a UC or CSU, and it’s far more affordable for everyone.
60.
Erieg
First, the loans will be forgiven after 10 years if they were 12k or below originally unless I miss read that.
Second, please note. I am not against this at all. I just don’t see the great benefit to future students. Thats all. Both my wife and I went to school on scholarship so student loans were foreign to me until my son started a few years ago.
61.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: What does it mean if one wants people to suffer more than one did? Asking for a friend.
62.
EarthWindFire
@oldster: The whining is both predictable and unbelievable. I saw a conservative post about how she grew up poor in government housing and worked for her GI bill. So she wasn’t responsible for YOUR (her caps) student debt. Questions about whether she would pay the government back rent for housing were met with silence. Try to fake surprise.
63.
Barbara
@Baud: “I had measles and chicken pox and your kids should too!”
There are definitely nuances to the issue of student loans, and it’s important I think to target forgiveness at those who are most burdened.
My problem with taking on the solution from the other side, which is to say, the Sanders approach to make state universities tuition free, is that it is a blunt instrument that helps those who don’t need any as much as those who do.
On the other hand, making college at least cheaper is a worthy goal, and to the extent the availability of loans has exacerbated hikes in tuition, there needs to be a policy approach that is based on sound research. One idea would be to somehow limit the availability of educational loans to the lesser of a certain amount or a certain percentage of overall costs. If a school won’t do that, it won’t be eligible for federally subsidized loans and grants.
Democrats are getting stuff done and trying to win? Must be my birthday.
It is my birthday.
68.
Ken
@Baud: (quoting Oldster): People who demand that others should suffer as much as they did are bad people
Except for doctors, of course, where there are fundamentally important educational reasons for the suffering involved in the medical internship and residency programs.
@Ksmiami: Seriously. Especially on the for-profit loans. My sister became overwhelmed with credit card debt and if you ever wonder why, if you ask, you can usually get a big reduction, it’s because, as she pointed out, she had long ago paid more than the principal amount through interest fees.
to the extent the availability of loans has exacerbated hikes in tuition, there needs to be a policy approach that is based on sound research.
This was tried when they put the limits on how much a student can borrow each year and for a lifetime (for undergrads only). What happened was an explosion in private loans and the Parent PLUS program.
What most people have no understanding of is that the vast, vast, vast majority of student (not parent) loan debt is private loan debt. When you hear of anyone with more than $5500/year for freshmen, $6500/year for sophomores and $7500/year for juniors and seniors, you are looking at someone with a lot of the most expensive and least flexible debt, private loan debt.
73.
Kropacetic
@Baud: @Omnes Omnibus: Thank you. 39. Watching the top digit on that odometer closely.
Have a good day, folk, taking my sister and bestie to watch Bodies, Bodies, Bodies.
74.
CaseyL
Seeing all the whining, butt-hurt whataboutism over on Twitter around the college debt forgiveness program makes me remind myself, once again, that Twitter is not real life.
Seeing that the GOP and the Hard Left will once again link hands to downplay and condemn the program makes me remind myself, once again, that extremist politics are a not a bell curve, but a horseshoe a self-eating snake.
75.
Barbara
@geg6: Right. My view would be to consider an approach that looks at all loans, even if the metric is an average. What is the percentage of tuition that is paid for with loans from any source? If it is over a certain amount, the school won’t qualify for certain types of federal subsidies. I am not saying it is THE answer, but it should be considered, or at least considered for schools that charge tuition beyond a certain amount. You definitely have to consider the unintended consequences.
I have 2 kids in grad school and one that may start in a year or so. I’m not wealthy, so this helps me AND my kids.
Other than the $10K in forgiveness, none of this applies to graduate students. Undergrad only. A major deficit.
78.
Ksmiami
@Barbara: I mean at this point, the government has bailed out:
bankers
large, land rich farmers
auto companies
business owners during a pandemic
so Actually getting the money directly to yoots- I’m fine with it
79.
Kropacetic
@Old School: Haha, thanks, and no. He’s a delight, though, smart and plainspoken.
I’ve considered Youtube. Need to get over my laziness and self-perception as kind of an oddity. For example, I often attempt humor. I’m often told I’m funny. I’m rarely told I’m funny in response to an attempt at humor.
80.
SteveinPHX
@Suzanne: They have undergrad loans. I should have been more specific.
81.
zhena gogolia
@Kropacetic: Are you Jack Benny? (that will tell you how old I am)
What most people have no understanding of is that the vast, vast, vast majority of student (not parent) loan debt is private loan debt. When you hear of anyone with more than $5500/year for freshmen, $6500/year for sophomores and $7500/year for juniors and seniors, you are looking at someone with a lot of the most expensive and least flexible debt, private loan debt.
According to The Guardian, approx. 40% of student loan debt is held by graduate students. They don’t specify if those grad students hold that through the government or through private banks. Do you have insight into that? I know none of the yearly caps on loans don’t apply to grad programs.
Hence the “In debt $350,000 to learn how to save your life” signs.
83.
Kropacetic
@zhena gogolia: Hey, I’ve heard that name before; frequently as a reference I never got on Nick at Nite. All my favorites talked about him; Lucy, Ethel, Mary, Rhoda, Archie, Edith. Thanks, also, and it’s all the age in (of) your heart that matters
@zhena gogolia: The reference is that he always claimed to be 39, not matter how old he got.
Brilliant. I’ll have to start to use that.
84.
zhena gogolia
@Kropacetic: The reference is that he always claimed to be 39, not matter how old he got.
All but one of my parochial schooled still active Catholic nieces and sisters-in-law are as outraged by the Supreme Court as I am.
88.
scav
@Kropacetic: Remember earlier discussions of the men who don’t hear or see women in any circumstances? Conversations with a silent invisible non-entity? All they see is floating boobs (rather like what stares back in their own mirror, actually. No wonder they’re enamored with the sight.)
89.
sab
@scav: Elizabeth Drew at the New Yorker built quite a career by being an intelligent attractive woman listening silently but intelligently at DC cocktail parties and then reporting what she had heard. The politicians would have been more discreet in front of a potted plant.
90.
Kropacetic
@scav: Conversations with a silent invisible non-entity? All they see is floating boobs
The life of disembodied breasts sounds lonely, indeed.
I am choked up about this Administration always trying to look out for ‘ the least of these’. The Pell Grant increase? Absolutely fabulous. Who got Pell Grants except for those most in financial need.
@Baud: Oh, okay. I googled it and apparently there is a lot of naughty stuff on the internet with his name on it, but it’s not the real Jack Benny, I guess.
BIDEN: Is it fair to people who, in fact, do not own multi-billion-dollar businesses if they see one of these guys getting all the tax breaks? Is that fair? What do you think?
97.
catclub
colleges raise tuition when student loans are subsidized – who knew?
BIDEN: Is it fair to people who, in fact, do not own multi-billion-dollar businesses if they see one of these guys getting all the tax breaks? Is that fair? What do you think?
I know some people find it irritating and long-winded, but personally I find it quite endearing whenever Biden tells stories about his dad and uses whatever the story was about to illustrate how Biden Administration policies are meant to help ordinary, decent people.
I am not an expert in graduate debt as my experience is strictly undergrad. However, it does not surprise me. Federal student loan debt is actually quite reasonable. I mean, $31,000 lifetime is not horrible. It is parent and grad debt that makes up the vast majority of debt. Until the creation of the Federal Parent PLUS (1980) and Grad PLUS programs (2006), which are fairly new as far as federal loans go, almost all student debt was private loan debt, especially for grad students. And with the cost of most grad programs, let alone professional programs like law or med school, that’s gonna add up fast. So that number of 40% sound maybe even a little low.
105.
hueyplong
“Since the fall of Roe v. Wade, it’s increasingly hard to see the once-clear signs of a G.O.P. advantage.”
Looks like someone needs to make another trip to a Pennsyltuckian diner to commune with his soulmates and be reminded that there are still holdouts who see November as a binary choice between Red Wave and Worst Ever Voter Fraud.
106.
Another Scott
@Erieg: I guess you missed the part where he said that this wasn’t the end, and that he was working with Congress to double Pell grants.
He’s not king. There’s only so much he can do without Congress.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
107.
JWR
@HumboldtBlue: Is that the voice of Peter “The Douche” Doocy shouting the question?
108.
zhena gogolia
@JWR: Sure sounds like it (it’s a woman first, but then he chimes in after Biden’s answer).
To be fair, as just small cog in the system, but how exactly do you expect to provide qualify education if you don’t want to pay what it’s worth or for those who provide to be paid what they are worth?
Do what European countries do and make all US college and universities free and pay the taxes to cover that. Otherwise, go ahead and make us cut tuition and cut the salaries of the professors and professionals like me who do all the other stuff and see how many quality people you have in those positions on the loan limits Congress sets. You’ll have the same people Ron Deathsantis is sending in to teach FL K-12. People with no knowledge or experience or education. Yeah, that’s the trick. Pay me even less than the pittance I get for what I do. I’ll be gone tomorrow.
110.
Calouste
@HumboldtBlue: Dollars to donuts that that reporter had their parents pay the tuition of whatever Ivy League finishing school they attended.
@Kropacetic: And – That is a fine rant by Trae! (We’re on a first name basis. /) “Student loan, oh is that where you get a student to be a slave in your office?” Still chuckling.
118.
Nelle
@geg6: I may be late to the party, but I don’t think you are among the people who many would like to see on the sacrificial altar. The number of top administrators making sky high $$ is definitely part of the problem.
I knowingly worked as a low paid adjunct while I raised my kids, but that is how we got benefits when my husband was self-employed. I never made over $21,000 a year as an adjunct, though. Meanwhile, the chancellor’s salary went from about $150,000 to over $600,000.
119.
Dan B
@catclub: I thought that colleges raise tuition when states cut subsidies. There are other reasons but I believe that’s a biggie.
120.
Suzanne
@geg6: Mr. Suzanne and I have solely public loans, solely for graduate school, and we are at much more than $31K. Honestly, this forgiveness will not do anything for us specifically, as our interest will continue to grow the balance and we will get to the end of the 20-year period without paying it off. Or we will die.
It’s a step in the right direction. It helps some undergrads, and that’s important.
121.
Geminid
Two views on Biden’s student loan debt initiative:
from the sarcastic Ragnarok Lobster,
The right: “Biden is trying to buy votes.”
The left: “Biden isn’t trying to buy enough votes.”
So it goes.
@eclecticbrotha August 24 2022
And from the thoughtful Mangy Jay,
Protecting more of my income from monthly payments + eliminating interest during the income based repayment period might sound “dry” to those who have not lived through it, but for me, & for many others, this could be life changing.
Grad school limits are different than undergrad. I don’t remember the grad limit for federal student loans off the top of my head but it’s much, much, much higher than the 31K for undergrads. And if you max out on that, you can get a federal Grad PLUS. So that’s very different. Grad school is the cause of an awful lot of student debt.
The horrible administration of the loan forgiveness program over the past several years has also created a lot of unnecessary debt.
123.
Another Scott
@Dan B: I started at the University of Chicago in 1979, just as tuition increases were starting to take off ($1500 my first quarter, I think it was around $5000 my last quarter in 1983).
I think what caused the huge increases was a few things:
The inflation of the 1970s finally catching up with college labor demands for reasonable salaries.
The Ivys had a cartel-like system from the 1950s onward (30 page .pdf from 1992) in which they would agree together on what their tuition would be in the next year (so that they wouldn’t have a race to the bottom of some sort). Schools that wanted to be regarded as Ivy-like would watch those results carefully. (Apparently there are yet again complaints about cartel-like behavior.)
Reagan and the GQP cut student aid and “revenue sharing” money sent to the states in the early ’80s, while states were still struggling with the aftermath of the giant inflation-crushing recession. Colleges and Universities hoping to get a big payoff from StarWars DoD money needed to upgrade their research facilities and staff to be competitive.
Boomer kids were going to college and they needed to expand their facilities and hire more staff.
The PC revolution was starting and lots and lots of people suddenly needed $2500-$5000 boxes and expected Colleges to have them and teach kids how to use them.
It was kind of a perfect storm of colleges needing to expand, needing to modernize, and needing to be nimble while at the same time funding was being cut. The money had to come from somewhere, and “everyone knows” that the path to the heart of the middle-class is via a good college education, so kids (and their parents) felt they had to pay the price.
This is very true. It’s the main reason public college has gotten so expensive. We only get about 4.5% of our budget from the state. But we’re the state’s flagship university.
125.
surfk9
@geg6: My wife filed for Public Service Loan Forgiveness a year and a half ago.She went to law school on loans. She was supposed to retire last September but wasn’t sure if she qualified so she kept on working. We keep getting conflicting information from the feds. She was notified last month that she had met all of the requirements for forgiveness. She keeps getting emails saying that she is in forbearance through longer and longer periods. She is now up to February 2023. It’s dizzying.
It’s truly awful how that program has been run. Totally unnecessary. The Biden team has been trying hard to fix it but it’s a mess and that takes time to clean up. Have faith!
127.
surfk9
@geg6:
Apparently the servicer qualifies a candidate for forgiveness and then it goes to the department of education for verification and then to the Treasury department for the actual forgiveness.
128.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: WaPo says graduate student loans qualify. I assume more clarity and details will be at the DoE website eventually.
Old School
“Back in my day, I worked through the summer to pay for tuition!”
Etc. etc.
geg6
I am so excited about this. The $20K forgiveness for Pell recipients has me tingling with excitement to tell my students.
gwangung
And isn’t there suspension of interest? That sounds big.
HumboldtBlue
Citizen Alan
Do we know if it applies to grad schools? I took out $58k for my St. John’s LLM, which I am fully prepared to pay back. But I certainly wouldn’t mind paying back $48k instead.
geg6
Here is the White House fact sheet:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/
M31
waiting for the pre-talk hot mic message “we have learned that spies and terrorists have infiltrated the Mar-A-Lago compound, the bombing begins in 5 minutes”
geg6
And I know there was a comment in the last thread complaining that the new repayment option is too complicated. That could only be said by someone who hasn’t had to navigate all the different payment options that have been put into place since the Obama administration. And who doesn’t know that every student loan borrower now has to complete exit counseling, which explains each plan in detail and also allows students to calculate their payments for each option. Not to mention all of the financial aid officers in all the colleges and universities all over the nation who will be explaining this to graduating students. Don’t underestimate us.
Students entering repayment will have all the information they need to take advantage of all of this. None of this existed when I was in college or grad school. I wish it had been.
jackmac
This will lift a huge financial burden off my kids and our family. Thank you President Biden.
This is why we support and vote for Democrats. They get things done!!!
geg6
@Citizen Alan:
A quick glance says it’s mainly undergrads, but I haven’t read it closely enough to know for sure.
I do know that the public service loan forgiveness is for both undergrad and grad students.
mali muso
Yay! Anything that helps students and families is a win in my book. I had Pell when I was a student and would have benefited tremendously from this, but I’m not going to be mad that I’ve already paid my loans off.
trollhattan
Cars go vroom, then cars go boom, you can’t explain that.@KyivIndependent
Urza
Think any of the whiny kids who lost interest in Biden for not cancelling student debt on 1/20/21 will be happy enough to vote now?
Dorothy A. Winsor
I don’t see how this harms people who paid off their loans. They pay taxes anyway. The money is better spent this way than in a bunch of other ways.
Barbara
@Old School: Yeah, in my day too, when my out of state tuition was $800 per semester and all-in annual costs were around $6000. It now costs out of state students around $50,000 to attend the same school
ETA: Or, in shorter words, “tell me how old you are without telling me how old you are.” You could do worse than ask what your all-in costs of going to college were.
Baud
@Urza:
The whiney kids were probably Russians.
My limited view into such things is, so far, revealing interest and excitement, especially about the proposed rule.
UncleEbeneezer
oldster
I paid off all my loans, my wife paid all her loans, we helped two kids all the way through so that they would not have to take out loans.
And I am delighted by this. It’s good politics and it’s the right thing to do.
People who demand that others should suffer as much as they did are bad people.
Baud
@geg6:
Snippet from that link.
Elizabelle
“Anal”ysis from the FTF NY Times. How begrudging is this?
Kropacetic
All our hard work down the drain…
WaterGirl
Biden up!
Baud
@Elizabelle: Does the NYT really use periods when writing GOP?
TerryTime
@oldster: I came to say exactly this.
Well stated!
Miss Bianca
@Elizabelle: that merits nothing better by way of response than a big ol’ “GEE, YA THINK?!”
zhena gogolia
@oldster: Yes, I do not understand that attitude at all.
Elizabelle
@Kropacetic: That’s what I think, too.
The top of their website is usually all about Ukraine and about Trump.
And how unpopular Biden is. And giving outsized consideration to anything that Republicans say or spin.
The FTF NY Times is a sick, sick, sick organization.
dnfree
@geg6: We only had one child with undergrad student debt, graduating in 2003, and we as parents watched the situation like hawks. She only ever borrowed the maximum federal loan each year, and we took on no debt. I paid her interest (very small amounts) during the four years she was in college, and we helped her get set up for the 15-year repayment plan with loan consolidation. She paid it off in the 15 years, something just over $100 a month. No one explained any of this to her or to us. I just read all kinds of financial advice articles. It’s kind of criminal that this wasn’t explained to everyone. I’m glad to hear it is now.
On the other side of the coin, we have a relative now in his 40s with three children. He claims that back when he was in his twenties, a banker told him he’d never pay his school debts off, so he might just as well not pay at all. By the time he realized this was terrible advice, his loan had skyrocketed. I guess his parents must not have realized what he was doing, but neither of them went to college and I think they just didn’t understand how it worked.
Kropacetic
You haven’t polished this Republican turd to a glossy enough sheen, liberal bias!!!
Dangerman
Covers Grad School? If so, suddenly I don’t and won’t have a penny of debt outside of a mortgage (remaining GS was under 10k). Well, shit. Premium ice cream for lunch!
zhena gogolia
I guess I missed that TFG called Chao “crazy” and when they asked Mitch about it he said he had no comment.
Erieg
I am happy for those this will help. The issue I have is that this doesn’t address the root cause. I have seen lots of very happy people with student loans that will be helped but what about soon to be students who will be taking out the same loans? This does nothing for them.
My son will benefit from this but my daughter who goes to college in 2024 will be out of luck. I asked my son and his friend about the disparity and the response was “Thats her problem”
geg6
@dnfree:
It’s totally different now. Before a new student’s loans can disburse, they have to complete loan entrance counseling, which is a very good explainer for new borrowers. At my campus, our First-Year Seminar has financial literacy as a major component. Then, when graduating, students complete the exit counseling which, unlike the entrance counseling, now has real numbers attached. I wasn’t a big fan of the Obama DoE, but implementing the entrance and exit counseling were pure good.
Mimi
I know I’m old, but back in the day Pell was a grant, not a loan.
I work for a graduate program and never, ever talk about this stuff with the students because I don’t have to and I don’t want to make them cry.
Ken
@zhena gogolia: Maybe McConnell and Cruz can start a club. Or since they don’t seem to care, maybe their wives will start one.
oldster
@zhena gogolia:
Oh, I understand it well enough. I can be a selfish, hateful bastard, too.
I just try not to base my entire political world view on being a selfish, hateful bastard, and then dressing up my spitefulness in the language of grievance and high dudgeon.
I leave that to Republicans.
geg6
@Erieg:
I cannot watch the President’s remarks at work, but the fact sheet I posted above did not exclude future borrowers from what I could see in a cursory glance. Did he specifically say that future borrowers are excluded?
geg6
@Mimi:
Pell is still a grant and not a loan. The point is that the lowest income borrowers, those who qualified for the Pell Grant, will get the $20K forgiveness.
ETA: It may be confusing to you because you work with grad students. Grad students don’t qualify for Pell. And I sure hope that, at the very least, your financial aid people are discussing this with your students. Doesn’t matter if they cry or not. They need reality.
Erieg
@geg6: I didn’t see it mentioned. What I read is that it is estimated to cost 300 billion which leads me to believe it’s a onetime thing.
John Revolta
@Urza: “NOW? Now it’s too late!”
UncleEbeneezer
SteveinPHX
Uncle Joe just kicked some ass! I have 2 kids in grad school and one that may start in a year or so. I’m not wealthy, so this helps me AND my kids.
HumboldtBlue
A lot of people asking why @votevetswent into #NY19 for @PatRyanUCwhen almost no one else would. It’s not very complex. Here’s a quick thread on why we spent over $500,000 to help Pat win.
SiubhanDuinne
@zhena gogolia:
Saw his comment dissing Chao a few days ago. I have no use for the woman, but that’s still a very shitty way to talk about a hand-picked member of your own Cabinet (for all but the last three weeks of your administration). Apart from everything else — the grift, the treason, the incitement to violence, the racism, the sexism, the stupidity, the craziness, the incompetence, the nepotism, etc. etc. etc. — TFG is simply not a nice person.
geg6
I’m guessing I’ll have to wait for my NASFAA (National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators) newsletter to come out to tomorrow to get the finer details. It should be ready and waiting for me in my inbox when I come into work tomorrow.
Erieg
I just read the fact sheet. I see a whole lot of pissed off high school seniors.
WaterGirl
@geg6: It would be great if you wanted to write up a simple document outlining the changes and explaining the benefits in plain english.
I would happily put that up as a post.
WaterGirl
@Erieg: High school seniors who won’t have to pay more than 5% of their discretionary income on student loans they get?
High school seniors who will have a simple way to not have to pay, with the simplified public service requirements?
High school seniors whose student loans will be forgiven after they have paid them for 10 years?
HumboldtBlue
Pres. Biden spoke to NowThis about the details of his just-announced plan for student debt relief
Ken
@Erieg: You remind me of the old joke about the guy who prays to win the lottery, and God shouts back “Meet me halfway! Buy a ticket!” Once the high school seniors actually have student loan debt, some of the provisions will apply to them.
EDIT: Or what WaterGirl said.
Erieg
Yes, those High School seniors. Lowering the monthly payment is nice but it doesn’t help the original cost which is where the problem comes in. Great, they pay 5% instead of 10% of discretionary income. Thats nice but when you are looking at a state school that charges 20k a year its still a very large amount that they owe.
“Building off of these efforts, the Department of Education is announcing new actions to hold accountable colleges that have contributed to the student debt crisis.”
Ok, like what?
raven
I owed $3300 in the last thread and still do! I wonder if old people are included?
raven
@Erieg: And what exactly do you expect the feds to do about that?
Omnes Omnibus
@Erieg: Golly, this one action did not solve the entire problem. I guess it was pointless, right? It was a positive step.
geg6
@Erieg:
Jesus. Those high school seniors will have only 10 years of repayment and all loans forgiven.
As for debt beyond what the federal loan system allows a student to borrow over their lifetime ($31, 000 for dependent students and $57,500 for independent students), there is nothing Biden or Congress can do about that. Those students borrowed from private lenders. The private lenders can do what they want.
Maybe those high school seniors should look at a community college or a state school that costs a hell of a lot less than $20,000 a year. Since my university is considered one of the most expensive public universities in the nation, I would really like to know what schools are doing that. An in-state student here at any single one of our 24 campuses pays much less than $20K/year. Only out-of-state students pay that much here.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oldster said it best upthread.
fancycwabs
I am reminded of Senator Marsha Blackburn’s husband, Chuck, who got a cool $20k in PPP bailout money during the pandemic for his “consulting business.”
Ksmiami
@UncleEbeneezer: and the bank bailouts and the GOP fakers that took ppp cash etc.
@oldster: I like Biden’s approach on this- targeted, smart and helpful. And no I don’t begrudge helping kids that were overwhelmed and overcharged on interest anyway. We need an educated population or we pay the price for an ignorant one.
HumboldtBlue
@geg6:
Community College is now free in California. Spend two years there and transfer to a UC or CSU, and it’s far more affordable for everyone.
Erieg
First, the loans will be forgiven after 10 years if they were 12k or below originally unless I miss read that.
Second, please note. I am not against this at all. I just don’t see the great benefit to future students. Thats all. Both my wife and I went to school on scholarship so student loans were foreign to me until my son started a few years ago.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: What does it mean if one wants people to suffer more than one did? Asking for a friend.
EarthWindFire
@oldster: The whining is both predictable and unbelievable. I saw a conservative post about how she grew up poor in government housing and worked for her GI bill. So she wasn’t responsible for YOUR (her caps) student debt. Questions about whether she would pay the government back rent for housing were met with silence. Try to fake surprise.
Barbara
@Baud: “I had measles and chicken pox and your kids should too!”
There are definitely nuances to the issue of student loans, and it’s important I think to target forgiveness at those who are most burdened.
My problem with taking on the solution from the other side, which is to say, the Sanders approach to make state universities tuition free, is that it is a blunt instrument that helps those who don’t need any as much as those who do.
On the other hand, making college at least cheaper is a worthy goal, and to the extent the availability of loans has exacerbated hikes in tuition, there needs to be a policy approach that is based on sound research. One idea would be to somehow limit the availability of educational loans to the lesser of a certain amount or a certain percentage of overall costs. If a school won’t do that, it won’t be eligible for federally subsidized loans and grants.
JWR
@Elizabelle:
But rest assured, we’ll keep looking! (Hmm, signs of GOP life must be around here someplace… )
cain
@Baud: They think it builds “character” – morons.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
It means one is a registered Republican.
Kropacetic
Trae Crowder on Student Loan Forgiveness:
It is my birthday.
Ken
Except for doctors, of course, where there are fundamentally important educational reasons for the suffering involved in the medical internship and residency programs.
Baud
@Kropacetic:
🎉🎈🎁🎂🍰
Barbara
@Ksmiami: Seriously. Especially on the for-profit loans. My sister became overwhelmed with credit card debt and if you ever wonder why, if you ask, you can usually get a big reduction, it’s because, as she pointed out, she had long ago paid more than the principal amount through interest fees.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropacetic: Happy birthday.
geg6
@Barbara:
This was tried when they put the limits on how much a student can borrow each year and for a lifetime (for undergrads only). What happened was an explosion in private loans and the Parent PLUS program.
What most people have no understanding of is that the vast, vast, vast majority of student (not parent) loan debt is private loan debt. When you hear of anyone with more than $5500/year for freshmen, $6500/year for sophomores and $7500/year for juniors and seniors, you are looking at someone with a lot of the most expensive and least flexible debt, private loan debt.
Kropacetic
@Baud: @Omnes Omnibus: Thank you. 39. Watching the top digit on that odometer closely.
Have a good day, folk, taking my sister and bestie to watch Bodies, Bodies, Bodies.
CaseyL
Seeing all the whining, butt-hurt whataboutism over on Twitter around the college debt forgiveness program makes me remind myself, once again, that Twitter is not real life.
Seeing that the GOP and the Hard Left will once again link hands to downplay and condemn the program makes me remind myself, once again, that extremist politics are a not a bell curve, but
a horseshoea self-eating snake.Barbara
@geg6: Right. My view would be to consider an approach that looks at all loans, even if the metric is an average. What is the percentage of tuition that is paid for with loans from any source? If it is over a certain amount, the school won’t qualify for certain types of federal subsidies. I am not saying it is THE answer, but it should be considered, or at least considered for schools that charge tuition beyond a certain amount. You definitely have to consider the unintended consequences.
Old School
@Kropacetic: You’re Trae Crowder?
Happy birthday!
Suzanne
@SteveinPHX:
Other than the $10K in forgiveness, none of this applies to graduate students. Undergrad only. A major deficit.
Ksmiami
@Barbara: I mean at this point, the government has bailed out:
bankers
large, land rich farmers
auto companies
business owners during a pandemic
so Actually getting the money directly to yoots- I’m fine with it
Kropacetic
@Old School: Haha, thanks, and no. He’s a delight, though, smart and plainspoken.
I’ve considered Youtube. Need to get over my laziness and self-perception as kind of an oddity. For example, I often attempt humor. I’m often told I’m funny. I’m rarely told I’m funny in response to an attempt at humor.
SteveinPHX
@Suzanne: They have undergrad loans. I should have been more specific.
zhena gogolia
@Kropacetic: Are you Jack Benny? (that will tell you how old I am)
Happy Birthday!
Suzanne
@geg6:
According to The Guardian, approx. 40% of student loan debt is held by graduate students. They don’t specify if those grad students hold that through the government or through private banks. Do you have insight into that? I know none of the yearly caps on loans don’t apply to grad programs.
Hence the “In debt $350,000 to learn how to save your life” signs.
Kropacetic
@zhena gogolia: Hey, I’ve heard that name before; frequently as a reference I never got on Nick at Nite. All my favorites talked about him; Lucy, Ethel, Mary, Rhoda, Archie, Edith. Thanks, also, and it’s all the age in (of) your heart that matters
@zhena gogolia: The reference is that he always claimed to be 39, not matter how old he got.
Brilliant. I’ll have to start to use that.
zhena gogolia
@Kropacetic: The reference is that he always claimed to be 39, not matter how old he got.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: He also had a thing for topless women.
Kropacetic
The part you talk to is on top, seems kind of important.
sab
@Elizabelle: Oops SCOTUS.
All but one of my parochial schooled still active Catholic nieces and sisters-in-law are as outraged by the Supreme Court as I am.
scav
@Kropacetic: Remember earlier discussions of the men who don’t hear or see women in any circumstances? Conversations with a silent invisible non-entity? All they see is floating boobs (rather like what stares back in their own mirror, actually. No wonder they’re enamored with the sight.)
sab
@scav: Elizabeth Drew at the New Yorker built quite a career by being an intelligent attractive woman listening silently but intelligently at DC cocktail parties and then reporting what she had heard. The politicians would have been more discreet in front of a potted plant.
Kropacetic
The life of disembodied breasts sounds lonely, indeed.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: What?
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Arrghh. Memory fail. I was thinking of Benny Hill, not Jack Benny.
rikyrah
I am choked up about this Administration always trying to look out for ‘ the least of these’. The Pell Grant increase? Absolutely fabulous. Who got Pell Grants except for those most in financial need.
rikyrah
@geg6:
I think it’s fabulous :)
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Oh, okay. I googled it and apparently there is a lot of naughty stuff on the internet with his name on it, but it’s not the real Jack Benny, I guess.
HumboldtBlue
catclub
colleges raise tuition when student loans are subsidized – who knew?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I love it!
(but when does this serpent choke to death? Or at least find itself unable to talk?)
Baud
@HumboldtBlue:
Isn’t that the type of message the Internet has often said it wanted to hear from a president?
JWR
@HumboldtBlue:
Damn! No, hot damn
ETA That’s the friggin’ No Malarkey Express!
gwangung
@Baud: Damn straight it is.
Is anyone going to give him credit for it? No one in the pundit class.
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
I know some people find it irritating and long-winded, but personally I find it quite endearing whenever Biden tells stories about his dad and uses whatever the story was about to illustrate how Biden Administration policies are meant to help ordinary, decent people.
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
I am pretty sure it’s a message that will resonate.
Also, what’s wrong with having a thing for topless women?
And over here, Tom Levenson is writing out sensible stuff.
geg6
@Suzanne:
I am not an expert in graduate debt as my experience is strictly undergrad. However, it does not surprise me. Federal student loan debt is actually quite reasonable. I mean, $31,000 lifetime is not horrible. It is parent and grad debt that makes up the vast majority of debt. Until the creation of the Federal Parent PLUS (1980) and Grad PLUS programs (2006), which are fairly new as far as federal loans go, almost all student debt was private loan debt, especially for grad students. And with the cost of most grad programs, let alone professional programs like law or med school, that’s gonna add up fast. So that number of 40% sound maybe even a little low.
hueyplong
“Since the fall of Roe v. Wade, it’s increasingly hard to see the once-clear signs of a G.O.P. advantage.”
Looks like someone needs to make another trip to a Pennsyltuckian diner to commune with his soulmates and be reminded that there are still holdouts who see November as a binary choice between Red Wave and Worst Ever Voter Fraud.
Another Scott
@Erieg: I guess you missed the part where he said that this wasn’t the end, and that he was working with Congress to double Pell grants.
He’s not king. There’s only so much he can do without Congress.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
JWR
@HumboldtBlue: Is that the voice of Peter “The Douche” Doocy shouting the question?
zhena gogolia
@JWR: Sure sounds like it (it’s a woman first, but then he chimes in after Biden’s answer).
geg6
@catclub:
To be fair, as just small cog in the system, but how exactly do you expect to provide qualify education if you don’t want to pay what it’s worth or for those who provide to be paid what they are worth?
Do what European countries do and make all US college and universities free and pay the taxes to cover that. Otherwise, go ahead and make us cut tuition and cut the salaries of the professors and professionals like me who do all the other stuff and see how many quality people you have in those positions on the loan limits Congress sets. You’ll have the same people Ron Deathsantis is sending in to teach FL K-12. People with no knowledge or experience or education. Yeah, that’s the trick. Pay me even less than the pittance I get for what I do. I’ll be gone tomorrow.
Calouste
@HumboldtBlue: Dollars to donuts that that reporter had their parents pay the tuition of whatever Ivy League finishing school they attended.
Niques
@Omnes Omnibus: It would mean one was a republican.
Oops. Too late.
zhena gogolia
@geg6: Thanks for fighting the good fight.
JWR
@zhena gogolia: Thanks!
@Calouste: Doocy: Daddy paid for all my college expenses. How does this plan benefit me?
Ken
Of course not, he doesn’t have the (R) for “Rex” after his name.
HumboldtBlue
@Calouste:
Guaran-fucking-teed.
Dan B
@Kropacetic: Prost! Happy 🎂 🥳 🎉 🎈 🎁 🎊 or however you’re enjoying it!
Dan B
@Kropacetic: And – That is a fine rant by Trae! (We’re on a first name basis. /) “Student loan, oh is that where you get a student to be a slave in your office?” Still chuckling.
Nelle
@geg6: I may be late to the party, but I don’t think you are among the people who many would like to see on the sacrificial altar. The number of top administrators making sky high $$ is definitely part of the problem.
I knowingly worked as a low paid adjunct while I raised my kids, but that is how we got benefits when my husband was self-employed. I never made over $21,000 a year as an adjunct, though. Meanwhile, the chancellor’s salary went from about $150,000 to over $600,000.
Dan B
@catclub: I thought that colleges raise tuition when states cut subsidies. There are other reasons but I believe that’s a biggie.
Suzanne
@geg6: Mr. Suzanne and I have solely public loans, solely for graduate school, and we are at much more than $31K. Honestly, this forgiveness will not do anything for us specifically, as our interest will continue to grow the balance and we will get to the end of the 20-year period without paying it off. Or we will die.
It’s a step in the right direction. It helps some undergrads, and that’s important.
Geminid
Two views on Biden’s student loan debt initiative:
from the sarcastic Ragnarok Lobster,
And from the thoughtful Mangy Jay,
geg6
@Suzanne:
Grad school limits are different than undergrad. I don’t remember the grad limit for federal student loans off the top of my head but it’s much, much, much higher than the 31K for undergrads. And if you max out on that, you can get a federal Grad PLUS. So that’s very different. Grad school is the cause of an awful lot of student debt.
The horrible administration of the loan forgiveness program over the past several years has also created a lot of unnecessary debt.
Another Scott
@Dan B: I started at the University of Chicago in 1979, just as tuition increases were starting to take off ($1500 my first quarter, I think it was around $5000 my last quarter in 1983).
I think what caused the huge increases was a few things:
It was kind of a perfect storm of colleges needing to expand, needing to modernize, and needing to be nimble while at the same time funding was being cut. The money had to come from somewhere, and “everyone knows” that the path to the heart of the middle-class is via a good college education, so kids (and their parents) felt they had to pay the price.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
geg6
@Dan B:
This is very true. It’s the main reason public college has gotten so expensive. We only get about 4.5% of our budget from the state. But we’re the state’s flagship university.
surfk9
@geg6: My wife filed for Public Service Loan Forgiveness a year and a half ago.She went to law school on loans. She was supposed to retire last September but wasn’t sure if she qualified so she kept on working. We keep getting conflicting information from the feds. She was notified last month that she had met all of the requirements for forgiveness. She keeps getting emails saying that she is in forbearance through longer and longer periods. She is now up to February 2023. It’s dizzying.
geg6
@surfk9:
It’s truly awful how that program has been run. Totally unnecessary. The Biden team has been trying hard to fix it but it’s a mess and that takes time to clean up. Have faith!
surfk9
@geg6:
Apparently the servicer qualifies a candidate for forgiveness and then it goes to the department of education for verification and then to the Treasury department for the actual forgiveness.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: WaPo says graduate student loans qualify. I assume more clarity and details will be at the DoE website eventually.
WaPo (Google cache):
Similar statements at VerifyThis.com
(There are (apparently) no Pell grants for graduate students, that’s why the $20k level won’t apply to graduate loans.)
HTH a little. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.