Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

All hail the time of the bunny!

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

Come on, man.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

So many bastards, so little time.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

You are here: Home / Politics / National Security / T R E 4 5 O N

T R E 4 5 O N

by | 345 Comments

This post is in: 

So, who wants to see that in skywriting over Washington DC?

It’s already been covered in other posts, but I think the most distressing thing may be this:

Open thread.

h/t Baud for the headline.

Updated to add the additional 4 tweets with more information.

 

Reader Interactions

345Comments

  1. 1.

    SteveinPHX

    Frist?

    It this is true and provable in a court of law, then a firing squad in a public square might be the way to go.

  9. 9.

    New Deal democrat

    *If* among the documents Trump kept at MAL were identifiers of US human intelligence assets in other countries, there is simply no other reasonable explanation except that he intended to profit by selling the information.

    As somebody else wrote in response the that tweet, I am sure that US intelligence agencies are proceeding on the assumption that *all* of the information Trump had in those documents has been copied and is in the possession of US adversaries.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    You really want to hurt Trump, in a way that he will actually care about? Go after his wallet. Like this:

    Truth Social faces financial peril as worry about Trump’s future grows:

    Former president Donald Trump’s Truth Social website is facing financial challenges as its traffic remains puny and the company that is scheduled to acquire it expresses fear that his legal troubles could lead to a decline in his popularity.

    Six months after its high-profile launch, the site — a clone of Twitter, which banned Trump after Jan. 6, 2021 — still has no guaranteed source of revenue and a questionable path to growth, according to Securities and Exchange Commission filings from Digital World Acquisition, the company planning to take Trump’s start-up, the Trump Media & Technology Group, public.

    The company warned this week that its business could be damaged if Trump “becomes less popular or there are further controversies that damage his credibility.” The company has seen its stock price plunge nearly 75 percent since its March peak and reported in a filing last week that it had lost $6.5 million in the first half of the year.

    I suppose “dragged out of his golf cart by a team of FBI agents chosen by lottery among those that he has disparaged” might count there. Anyway, you’ll be pleased to note that Truth Social continues in the grand Trump tradition of stiffing its vendors and not understanding the basics of actually running a business:

    There are signs that the company’s financial base has begun to erode. The Trump company stopped paying RightForge, a conservative web-hosting service, in March and now owes it more than $1 million, according to Fox Business, which first reported the dispute.

    The company also has struggled with some basics of corporate operation. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office this month denied its application to trademark “Truth Social,” citing the “likelihood of confusion” to other similarly named companies, including an app, “VERO — True Social,” first released in 2015.

  11. 11.

    Cathie from Canada

    One thing that struck me today was that if Trump had just left it alone — like, explained away the raid two weeks ago by saying it was just a misunderstanding by his staff, nothing to see here, move along move along — then maybe he would have got away with it?

    But of course he couldn’t do that — the bluster and loud demands  and shouting and court actions that the warrant and affidavit be published have resulted in everybody connecting the dots.

    More proof of the Trump truisms: “it’s always worse than it looked at first” and “everything Trump touches dies”.

  15. 15.

    MattF

    Yeah, I’m thinking we’ve actually reached that line-in-the-sand that shouldn’t be crossed. We shall see.

  17. 17.

    Mike in NC

    That photo from Helsinki is one for the history books: Trump emerging with the look of a drooling imbecile while his mentor Putin smirks with delight. We’ll probably never know what they talked about since the notes were destroyed. Maybe Vlad told Trump he was going to invade Ukraine and crush its government and military in three days, and Trump’s reply was “whatever”, so long as the family got to keep laundering money for Russian oligarchs.

  18. 18.

    Jonas

    Isn’t this the wrong way around? Wouldn’t he have to get the list first in order to give any names to Putin? And i think if the IC really suspected that POTUS himself had compromised human assets, we’d have heard it by now. Pulling a real Alderich Ames requires more cunning than i think Trump possesses.

  21. 21.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    @Jonas: Well, there was more than one convo with putin. Could have been: They talk and putin says “get me the names”, trump gets the list, they talk again after where he slobbers all over him and says “look daddy, I got what you wanted!!!”

    I agree trump is not smart enough to orchestrate literally anything more complicated than a KFC order, but he had people around him who had functioning brains. Evil ones, mind you, but functioning.

  22. 22.

    Nelle

    @Jonas: No, it was at the meeting that Putin put in the demand.  That’s why tge notes were destroyed.  A few days later, Trump complies by asking for the names.

    Edit..others type faster.

  23. 23.

    dm

    I know it’s FTNYT, but they apparently devoted the whole front page to this story this morning (if the screen cap at DKOS is to be believed — it’s certainly not obvious from the homepage at nytimes.com).

  24. 24.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    10/5/2021: “CIA Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants”. (NYT).  That’s one way of putting it.

  25. 25.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Jonas: 1: Putin told him what he wanted

    2: Trump got the list as requested/required

    3: People were killed..

    4: And here we are.

  26. 26.

    JanieM

    @Jonas:

    Isn’t this the wrong way around? Wouldn’t he have to get the list first in order to give any names to Putin? And i think if the IC really suspected that POTUS himself had compromised human assets, we’d have heard it by now.

    Do you think that if he spoke to Putin once he could never speak to him again? The implication is that Putin asked for the names on 7/31 and Clickbait requested them a few days later. It would be nice to have a record of a phone call or communication right after that, but I wouldn’t assume that because we don’t have it, it didn’t happen.

    And why assume the IC would say anything about it to the public? We’re talking about secrets, after all

    ETA: Heh, i needn’t have bothered.

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    WaPo – TFG spoke privately with VVP at least 16 times as of October 4, 2019.

    I’m no expert, but it’s my understanding that the NSA’s entire “signals intelligence” mission is to hoover-up every electronic signal outside the US border and figure out what it means. If it crosses the border, it’s fair game. So while I don’t know, obviously, I would not be shocked if every conversation that VVP has ever had with anyone over any electronic device has been recorded by the NSA.

    What can and would be done with that information? Dunno. The TLAs obviously never like to give up “sources and methods” and if there’s another way to get to the result needed without doing so, I assume they will go that route.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Jonas

    @Eunicecycle: Okay but then wouldn’t we have to have evidence of a later conversation with Putin or other Russian officials that nobody listened in on where he could deliver the names? As far as I know that only happened one time in Helsinki but maybe I’m not remembering another.

  32. 32.

    patrick II

    I think I have read about that incident some time ago, but one of many Trump crimes that just seemed to overwhelm following up. I guess mar a Lago puts it in a new light.

  35. 35.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Jonas: That’s assuming it was at a face to face meeting where the secrets were spilled.

    I’m assuming that everything kept in that storage closet was photographed by foreign intelligence agents over a year ago, and I’m sure our intelligence agencies are assuming the same thing.

    Not just Putin. I doubt there’s an adversary that DOESN’T have the whole trove by now. Plus probably the French and the Israelis, who both have a history of spying on us.

  36. 36.

    patrick II

    I can’t think of a reason having to do with presidential duties that would inquire that list other than . Putin. maybe Trump hwanted to send then all Christmas cards.

  39. 39.

    Steeplejack

    I was advocating going back to “TFG,” because “FPOTUS” (including “POTUS”) gives him too much respect, but then I saw this, which cleared things up for me.

    The only thing you need to know is that there were documents released that refer to him as FPOTUS, which is FBI shorthand for fuckopotomus.

    — SP (@SethTellsTales) August 27, 2022

  41. 41.

    JoyceH

    It will be highly classified, but someone somewhere has the list of the intel assets we’ve lost. Someone with appropriate clearance needs to compare that list with the info seized at MAL. If it’s a match, Trump should be arrested immediately and placed in pre-trial confinement. Teams of FBI agents need to go back to MAL and do a complete and thorough search, and same for Bedminster and Trump Tower.

  42. 42.

    leeleeFL

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):  The dead spies might not be Americans, but foreign assets.  CIA would consider them their people, yes?

    I am totally not shocked, sadly. I knew what he was before the deplorables laid down on him and set the goddamn bed on fire!🔥🔥🔥

    I do not give a rat’s ass if the whole damn thing blows up, that traitorous SOB has to be prosecuted, convicted and punished!  If it was Hillary Clinton, she’d have been lynched!

    IT FUCKING MATTERS!

    What he has done to my Country makes me physically ill!

  45. 45.

    Anonymous At Work

    1. When was Helsinki?
    2. Trump’s too dumb and impulsive for coded messages.  Allowing documents to be photographed by foreign agencies sounds about right, though.
    3. Unlikely ever to see any such analysis, but the question for CIA is *when* did the loss of informants increase from normal baseline?  And was there any pattern to such a loss that can be attributed to leaked intelligence?
  47. 47.

    Scout211

    How do you defend this treason? Well, lets’s learn from DJT,jr as he defends his treasonous dad. The best defense is is a good . . . crotch shot? WTF? Redact this! Meme.

    Warning! (But you gotta see it).

  48. 48.

    WaterGirl

    @Jonas: He meets with Putin.  Putin tells Trump he wants the list.  Trump gets the list.  Trump shares the list with Putin.

    Trump doesn’t have to share a piece of paper in person in order to share the list.

    That’s why it’s mind-boggling to me that people are suggesting that maybe Trump made a copy of some of this stuff.  Surely Trump or SOMEONE took a photo of absolutely EVERYTHING.

    Am I alone in thinking this?

  51. 51.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    @Spanky: To be clear, I am against capital punishment.

    But it does bring to mind George Carlin’s clever ideas. My favorite one being: Dip a guy in brown gravy and lock him in a small room with a wolverine who is high on angel dust.

  54. 54.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: I agree. I would not be surprised at all if there are documents that are now missing, though. That would be another level of treason.

  55. 55.

    Another Scott

    @Anonymous At Work: I remember him yucking it up in the Oval Office with Lavrov in 2017 (from November 2017):

    President Donald Trump sparked widespread concern within the US and Israeli intelligence communities earlier this year when he disclosed details of a highly classified Israeli operation to Russian officials, according to a new Vanity Fair report.

    The Washington Post first reported in May that Trump told Russia’s foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, and ambassador to the US at the time, Sergey Kislyak, about the terrorist group ISIS’s work to develop a laptop bomb that could pass through airport security undetected — information Trump had received from Israeli intelligence officials.

    The information was highly classified and had not been disclosed even to close American allies.

    Vanity Fair reported on Wednesday that a top American spy told Israeli intelligence officials during a meeting at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, a few weeks before Trump’s inauguration that US intelligence believed Russian President Vladimir Putin had “leverages of pressure” over Trump.

    […]

    Trump met with Lavrov and Kislyak in the Oval Office on May 10, the day after he fired James Comey as FBI director. Trump told the Russians that he had “faced great pressure” as a result of the investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 US election — and whether the Trump campaign colluded with Moscow — that Comey was leading, calling him “crazy” and “a real nut job.”

    Trump then reportedly described the broad outlines of the Israeli intelligence and named the Syrian city in which it was gathered.

    It’s all connected, and we’ve know about all this for a long time. As Pelosi said, “all roads lead to Russia with [TFG]”.

    None of the new revelations are shocking – they’re just more confirmation of what’s been obvious for years.

    Still, it’s good it’s coming out because it lets those on the other side continue to dig their holes deeper trying to excuse him…

    Grrr…,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    cain

    @Gravenstone:

    @SteveinPHX: Hang him. Then leave the corpulent corpse dangling to bloat and rot.

    He needs to go to a supermax jail and rot there. In addition, he needs to make himself available to throw the entire GOP party under the bus. Believe me, he’ll do it. He’ll also describe himself as the perfect traitor, nobody has been a better traitor than him, he understands how to be a traitor. Bigly.

    Motherfucker.

  59. 59.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @dmsilev: hurting this treasonous  mofo only.financially isn’t good enough.  He needs to be in a supermax along with all his enablers. Don’t tell me other people didn’t know this shit. And I hope to god, the gang of eight do not get any of the info on the case.

  60. 60.

    cain

    @Another Scott: I hope fucking Comey and the New York FBI office is happy with their work. They put a man who betrayed his entire country and destroyed norms everywhere.

  61. 61.

    jonas

    I don’t doubt for a second that stuff Trump had at MAL put vast swaths of US natsec and intel at risk. That’s why he was raided. I’m just not seeing a convincing connection yet between that 10/21 NYT story and the Trump/Putin timeline. If you look at the story, it’s discussing a top-secret CIA memo detailing losses or compromises of human intel assets over the previous decade, not just in the previous year, and not just in Russia, but around the world. Let’s just all calm down here before we too start getting into Pepe Silvia territory and remember Trump’s Razor.

  63. 63.

    FelonyGovt

    We already know lives were lost from COVID due to his bungling and downplaying the disease. Now it appears Americans and others who were American intelligence assets probably lost their lives (or their liberty) as well. Top it off with, how are any foreign governments, even our Allie’s, ever to trust us with sensitive information again?

  64. 64.

    cain

    @Mai Naem mobile: That includes all the senators and congressman who supported the big lie – they are all culpable.

    Trumpers should be looked upon with derison – for the longest time they’ve been walking around like they are some kind of super patriots. They should feel our wrath and cower before it.

  66. 66.

    Jinchi

    @WaterGirl: Surely Trump or SOMEONE took a photo of absolutely EVERYTHING.

    Am I alone in thinking this?

    That was my thought too, but then again, I’m constantly reminded that TFG is a moron.

    He never had to steal the original documents. He could have just photographed them with his phone and departed for Mar-a-Lago with no one the wiser.

    But instead he took at least 26 boxes of documents with him.

  67. 67.

    Gravenstone

    @cain: He can languish in prison between trial appearances for all his co-conspirators. But in the end, if this is true, he swings.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Another Scott:

    ETA: WHOOPS, n/m, I obviously failed to read your whole blockquote! Sorry.

    ***

    Wasn’t that Oval Office meeting with Lavrov the same day as (or within a day one way or the other) of TFG firing Comey from the FBI? It always felt to me as though those two events were somehow connected beyond the chronology.

  70. 70.

    jonas

    @jonas: ​
      Adam Schiff and the HPSCI have asked the CIA and other agencies for a damage assessment related specifically to what was seized at MAL. When that assessment has been made, then we’ll know (or at least those with clearance to know) more specifically what Trump himself, or people in his orbit, may be responsible for.

  73. 73.

    mrmoshpotato

    @FelonyGovt:

    We already know lives were lost from COVID due to his bungling and downplaying the disease. Now it appears Americans and others who were American intelligence assets probably lost their lives (or their liberty) as well. 

    Yup.  It’s truly amazing what a shitstain the orange bastard is.

  75. 75.

    leeleeFL

    @MagdaInBlack:  If there was a larger blackout strip, enough to remove TFG completely, I would be delighted to redact THAT!  The tRump clan has to be the worst example of America, bar-none!

  76. 76.

    cain

    @Gravenstone: I’m not sure.. he needs to made a symbol of Christianfascism and destroyed in front of them – and then paraded constantly in front of them.

    You know how these people are they will gas lit everything. Start with the “no true conservative..” I’m more interested on a political beat down on his people – the kind of people who would vote De Santis for president.

  77. 77.

    jonas

    @Jinchi: ​
     

    He could have just photographed them with his phone and departed for Mar-a-Lago with no one the wiser.

    I’m surprised they didn’t show up at Bedminster and seize his phone(s). I would be absolutely shocked if he didn’t have all kinds of classified shit on there — photos, texts, etc.

  79. 79.

    Urza

    @JoyceH: It wouldn’t even have to match what was found if it started with documents in 2019.  He could have gotten new lists.

  86. 86.

    Suzanne

    @cain:

    Trumpers should be looked upon with derison – for the longest time they’ve been walking around like they are some kind of super patriots. They should feel our wrath and cower before it.

     

    Agreed very much.

  88. 88.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m of the opinion that complete isolation with NO external validation what-so-ever would be extremely painful, with zero blood lost. That man being forced to spend forever alone in his own head…can you imagine that torment?

  89. 89.

    piratedan

    i’m gonna go against the grain here and not state that TFG is/was a moron.  He is very capable of using his money and force of personality to bend people to his will., he buys them or bullies them.  He has a gift of finding weaknesses and exploiting it.

    He doesn’t see himself as an American, he’s “above all that”, he’s a citizen of the world and we are the cannon fodder that are expendable to make him the star of his own production.  Whoever and however are just ways and means to allow him to do what he wants, when he wants.

    The part that rankles me the most, is that the bastard could have been shut down years ago, but the GOP is filled with petty, racist asshats, just like him.  Now they get to own him and their protection of him, same goes for Uncle Rupe’s shop, if it comes to pass that all of the accusations stick (why not, everything else has), those fuckers should be hounded out of the public, if not the country.

  92. 92.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @jonas: He wasn’t “raided.”  Federal law enforcement executed a legally-justified and court-approved search warrant.

    Breanna Taylor was “raided.”  Trump was not.  “Raid” has a connotation of an aggressive group of heavily armed officers busting down the door with guns drawn. That’s not at all what happened at MAL.  Trump and his supporters have been falsely using the term to make him appear as a victim and we shouldn’t help them by echoing their bogus framings

    Otherwise, I co-sign the rest of your comment.  I’ll wait and see before jumping to too many conclusions, though I wouldn’t be shocked if we find out there was some dealings with foreign enemies.

  99. 99.

    apieceofpeace

    Terrific headline, Baud!

    I’m an old, not like the 45, who is literally losing it and reverts to what he knows used to work for what he referred to as “my people”, so keeps right on shouting, insulting, lying, but he remembers how good those old venues felt and wants more.   This is dementia, or possibly Alzheimers.  Or maybe a fucking crazy guy

    Was he ever anything more?   For this century, he just became slimier and slimier.  It’s effortless on his part, and he loves easy.  May he fall headfirst into his golden toilet.

    On another note,  might all mankind use this experience and spend a moment speculating on what kind of culture turned out a creature like him and what must change going forward, so mankind survives.

  102. 102.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl: I certainly think he has, but the string of events in the initial tweet are not proof of it.

    ETA: I’m not against a little irresponsible speculation, but I don’t want to get ahead of actual events.

  103. 103.

    El Muneco

    @Baud: Arnold slander. He saved the country at least twice before his betrayal, and was frankly ineffective afterward and didn’t do a lot of actual harm. It’s more the symbolism that makes him infamous than the amount of damage he did.

  104. 104.

    Ken

    @Spanky: No, stick with hanging for the extra psychological torment.

    “Now, what is your weight? We need it accurate to within three pounds for a clean break. Otherwise either you strangle slowly for twenty minutes, or your head is torn off.”

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:

    Surely Trump or SOMEONE took a photo of absolutely EVERYTHING.

    I wouldn’t count on anything intelligent or sneaky or reasonable if SFB is involved in any way, shape or form. He wears all his shit on the outside, only because he’s too stupid and arrogant to do otherwise. He’s been this way for over 5 decades. Everything about him is a con. Every Damn Thing Is A Con if he is in any way involved. He wouldn’t know honest if it slapped him upside the head. He never has and he never will, he’s incapable of any behavior, thought, process, concept, if it involves honesty or anyone else benefiting. He has been this way his entire life since he could speak.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I am watching Crossing Lines and the episode I watched yesterday had a high-up person in law enforcement in collusion with a really bad guy.  Once the law enforcement guy outed himself as being in collusion with the human trafficker (and more) they put out a cover-up story to save the reputation of the big law enforcement agency, whose reputation would be too damaged by the truth.

    I don’t actually think that’s too far off of what might happen here.  A lot will be known, but not all that much will be known by people like us.  Not exactly sure how I feel about that because sunlight really is the best disinfectant.  But there are way too many secrets to protect.

  109. 109.

    jonas

    @piratedan: ​
     

    He doesn’t see himself as an American, he’s “above all that”, he’s a citizen of the world

    Nah, that’s scary (((globalist))) talk there. The problem with Trump is that he perceives no difference between his own interests and those of America. The presidency wasn’t some way to serve the nation, but was just a kind notch in the bedpost. Another conquest in the path of the world’s most awesomest leader and dealmaker. He was outraged to find out people in the executive branch and military swore an oath to the Constitution instead of a loyalty oath to him personally. Secret government documents were his to keep because, you know, l’etat, c’est moi. Pure, distilled narcissism combined with lethal levels of Dunning-Krueger arrogance. His only quality of intelligence — if you can call it that — was sniffing out certain people who mistake his personality flaws for some kind of strength and turning them into abject toadies (aka Dignity Wraiths).

  110. 110.

    Lyrebird

    @Jackie: I want to see a TRE45ON banner flown over his next Saudi-hosted golf tournament being held in NY.

    I want it flown over Mar a Lago, too!

    I remember when the Speaker of the House and some other people, did that include Chuck Grassley?

    got a briefing about classified stuff, gave no comment after, but looked ashen.

    I thought that might have been when they were told that the Traitor in Chief had encouraged a mob hit against our own ambassador to Ukraine.

    I want him to live long and see consequences for his betrayals, and I want him to keep giving evidence inadvertently.  We need to find out what other betraying roaches are hiding from the light.  Rand Paul makes his subservience to an emny power quite clear, but who else?

  115. 115.

    scav

    @Ken: Speaking of slow, for some ironic — or would that be iconic? —  twisted reason, I saw the Orange one being dropped from the rope on an escalator.

  116. 116.

    raven

    @Ruckus: My old man left me this porthole when he died 20 years ago. My step-mom just now sent it to me and I wonder what you think. The old four stackers had portholes but, when they converted them to APD’s, the were removed. The story we got from the old man was that he requisitioned one and kept in in his locker the entire war. When I talked to one of his shipmates after he died the guy was skeptical because there was so little room on those old scows.  I found a maritime antique dealer online and he said he’d never seen one like it with the five dogs.

  117. 117.

    jonas

    @trnc: ​
     

    Obviously still evil, but expect it as a defense from wingnuts.

    At this point, we’re probably not far off from someone at Fox or OAN just saying outright: ” ‘Intelligence? Intelligence? Isn’t that something coastal elites are always cramming down the throats of average Americans? C’mon! Who even needs that? If Trump gave up the names of ‘intelligence’ sources, they were probably liberal pinheads and in the way of MAGA.”

  118. 118.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Lyrebird:

    I remember when the Speaker of the House and some other people, did that include Chuck Grassley?

    got a briefing about classified stuff, gave no comment after, but looked ashen.

    If we’re thinking of the same post-briefing photo, well, I don’t remember Grassley one way or the other, but I do have a mental image of Dianne Feinstein looking a combination of gobsmacked and utterly bereft. Not sure if that would have been the same briefing or something quite different.

  119. 119.

    cain

    @trnc: This would make intelligence very hard now given that they had a mole in their organization and it was the president of the united states. Let that sink in.

  120. 120.

    JoyceH

    Open thread question: What do you call that thing when the TV news creates a “cover page” for a news story, has like a title and illustration? They all have their own now for the Mar A Lago story. Reason I ask is that whatever it’s called, CNN just had one for “Mission To The Moon”, and it was a bit of a surprise how THRILLED I was to see it. Mission To The Moon! Ahhhh! It’s been too long!

  121. 121.

    Urban Suburbanite

    I wonder if the documents were intended for the Saudis, rather than Putin. It would explain the huge investment the kingdom gave to Kushner (although that might have been for the dissidents he’s suspected of handing over to Prince Bonesaw) and the money being plowed into that golf tournament.

    And remember that racist as fuck couple in Rochester? They had a press conference where they turned on the tears, bewailed their victimhood, and insisted on how totally not racist they are – except for the wife having a super racist Twitter account.

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    @apieceofpeace:

    I am old, only 3 yrs younger than SFB. I’ve seen most of two entire generations get old and what’s involved and what it looks like. You are correct that he is aging out. From all I’ve seen over the last few years he is on his way out. Now it could take him some time to get all the way there, but his timeline looks to me to be less than 5 yrs. Physically he is getting worse by the day, mentally he’s getting worse by the day. He has enough cover to keep prying eyes away from seeing all the progress but that does not stop that progress. This progress can be slowed some but it takes effort and admitting that effort is necessary is the first step. A narcissistic of his magnitude is never going to be able to admit that he isn’t perfect or that he isn’t going to live for ever.  And he is the only one that can slow (but never stop) this normal progress to the end. And like everything else that normal, reasonable humans can do, he can’t. His “wealth” can’t help him, being so relativity without any, time is not on his side, his personality will never listen to anyone that doesn’t suck his ….. so that leaves him an old fart in crappy health, with shitty eating habits, stress out the ass, way over weight, with no concept of any actual exercise.

  124. 124.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Omnes Omnibus: Weren’t they all hung except one man who was crushed to death with large rocks under a board (called “pressing”, if I remember correctly)?

  128. 128.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Ruckus: Yeah, I just saw a closeup picture of him at the top of a news story and he looks frail and old, much worse than I remember from when he was infesting the White House. Good.

  129. 129.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MagdaInBlack:

    I’m of the opinion that complete isolation with NO external validation what-so-ever would be extremely painful

    Narcissists generally commit suicide when put in jail for a long time.  A life that isn’t indulging their emotional whims isn’t worth living.  It’s why I find it completely believable that Epstein committed suicide, and at most someone made it easy for him.

    @Pennsylvanian:

    What the fuck does Putin have on him?

    Really hard to say.  Putin could have all kinds of blackmail material, could have all kinds of bribery leverage, but probably didn’t need any of it.  Trump slavers over brutal dictators.  Idolizes them.  Remember the North Korea nonsense?  Putin is the king of that club.  I don’t think there’s much Trump wouldn’t do just to make Putin happy.

    EDIT – @Kent:

    if you want to be pedantic

    And on Balloon Juice we ALWAYS want to be pedantic.

  130. 130.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @zhena gogolia: And he submitted to that so his family wouldn’t lose all their assets, correct?

    ETA: from Wikipedia: He was subjected to pressing in an effort to force him to plead—the only example of such a sanction in American history—and died after three days of this torture. Because Corey refused to enter a plea, his estate passed on to his sons instead of being seized by the local government.

  132. 132.

    Scout211

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Omnes Omnibus: @WaterGirl:

    So far, none of the statements here have risen to the level of “duty to warn,” as in my former profession. Thoughts are not the same as actionable plans.  Just saying.

    While it is surprising to me that some here go first to violent revenge fantasies, I do, however, understand how F-POTUS and his actions can trigger that kind of response.  

    So fyi jackals: thoughts okay, actionable plans not okay.  Okay?

  133. 133.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    Just from looking at it, it is for sure older than you or me. I’d say close to 100 yrs or so. It is possible it was from a late 30s ship but I’d doubt that. I saw some old boats when I was in. The five clamps with the glass cover is not something I recall ever seeing but the oldest ship I was ever on (other than the USS Constitution in Boston Harbor) was a WWII sub that was still commissioned in 1970. That’s the boat I gave tours on in my have nothing else to do time during school in San Diego 1970.

  134. 134.

    zhena gogolia

    @A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): That’s what it says in the online article I just read!

    He refused to plead guilty or not guilty, because then his family would lose his assets. The pressing was ostensibly a torture to get him to confess, not an execution. But he didn’t submit, and his last words were “More weight.” But apparently he himself had killed an indentured servant. Not that that makes it okay.

  136. 136.

    Poptartacus

    Oh lord Jesus, baby Jesus, god, creep, and scar please make that orange muthafucker pay for his sins.

    Amen

    I have evoked the supernatural, I can do no more(except donate and vote)

  137. 137.

    raven

    @Ruckus: Yea, the Crosby was built at Fore River in 1918 and mothballed until the mid 30’s.  There are tons of exterior photos but I can’t find and below decks. I think I will just go with it!

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @jlowe:

    Several online stores, including RedBubble and Zazzle, have had TRE45ON t-shirts for sale for a while. I was tempted to buy one a few weeks ago, resisted temptation, but now I’m feeling salty enough that I probably will.

  140. 140.

    RSA

    As much as I’d like to see TFG behind bars, points 2 and 3 are not as closely related as the timeline suggests.

    2. 8/3/2019: Trump issued a request for a list of top US spies (The Daily Beast)

    3. 10/5/2021: “CIA Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants”. (NYT)

    2: Trump’s request was to the “Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) for a list of all its employees at the federal government’s top pay scale…” ODNI’s role is “to lead intelligence integration and forge an intelligence community that delivers the most insightful intelligence possible,” and all ODNI employees must be U.S. citizens.

    3: The cable from the CIA was about “troubling numbers of informants recruited from other countries to spy for the United States being captured or killed.”

    That is, 2 and 3 are about different sets of people: U.S. intelligence analysts and so forth at ODNI versus foreign national spies recruited by the CIA (which reports to ODNI). If there’s an indirect path between them, I think that would have to involve foreign governments recruiting our intelligence people in either ODNI or the CIA, which would be very scary.

  141. 141.

    trollhattan

    @apieceofpeace: @Ruckus:

    You’re both right, of course, and Donny seems to have regressed much further than many in his age cohort–hate and shitty diet do take their toll, it seems–but given how readily Reagan was reelected I don’t believe any Trump supporter circa 2016 would hesitate even a minute before filling out the dot next to his name in 2024.

    But he can’t campaign from prison or from a convalescent hospital bed, should he pop the stroke we expect to happen, so here’s hoping he’s not around in two years.

  143. 143.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    I know! It’s one of my faves! But there was just something about ZG’s particular turn of phrase here that made me specially love it.

  144. 144.

    eversor

    @SteveinPHX:

    Firing squads IIRC are still reserved for those who served.  It’s a dignity Trump sure as fuck did not earn.  This is a hanging offense.

  149. 149.

    eversor

    @veyesok569:

    Quit this shit right now.  Snarking over a shitty candidate only helps Trump walk.  This has ceased to be funny a long time ago.  And snarking to defend “her emails” lowers the gravity of what happens.

  153. 153.

    trollhattan

    @dmsilev: “Letter from Birmingham JailClub Fed will endure long after Donny is gone.

    “I’ve been treated so unfairly, and what the hell kind of curly fries are these, anyway?!?”

  157. 157.

    Ken

    @Pennsylvanian: WTF does Putin have on him?

    A psychological workup with “narcissist” underlined three times in black sharpie, and a MICE assessment with three checks next to Money, eight next to Ego, and the note “self worship” next to Ideology. Conscience is of course scratched out.

  162. 162.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cain: ​

    He needs to go to a supermax jail and rot there.

    This. Life without parole. And not a single digital device to play with, let alone communicate with the outside world with.

    And while he’s there, he needs to get the very best health care, so that his punishment lasts as many years as possible. A (comparatively) quick death by execution is too kind to him.​

  163. 163.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cain:

    I hope fucking Comey and the New York FBI office is happy with their work. They put a man who betrayed his entire country and destroyed norms everywhere.

    This too.

  164. 164.

    eversor

    @Scout211:

    No it’s not.  Clinton was a shit candidate and we are now in a world of shit.  That snark, because she did fuck up, is a way out for them.  We have to stop defending shit and snarking because it works in the in group and lets the out group get away with what they want.   She’s not defendable, and too many people were tricked into not liking her.  And everyone marching about snarking on it only helps Trump.  It’s dumb.  She was screwed over yes, but we all need to make a commitment not to mention her in relationship to this ever again.   It may feel good for you, but it’s a cheap high that pulls a nail out of this vampires coffin each time you do it.

    No more Clinton shit, no more she was right, no more emails.  Focus on this and don’t drag that idiocy back into it or you give them a way to win.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    @eversor:

    You might as well pie me because I plan to keep defending Clinton.

    But her emails forever!

    ETA: I ♥️ that she’s been retired for six years and still triggering people.  Even in the face of Trump’s treason.

  169. 169.

    eversor

    @Baud:

    Then, vote Trump!

    The issue is to take down the traitor.  Trying to prance around that you were right draws the conversation in another way and costs you a win.  I voted for Clinton I felt robbed as well.  But the none stop “Hillary was right” only puts power to the Trump side.   This is one of the reasons why we lose.  People don’t like the snark, and the snark creeps out, and then we all hold our hands in the air and call people stupid.

    Quit the vindication of Clinton, focus on taking down Trump.  All there is to it.  It’s self sabotage for the sake of snark.

  170. 170.

    Baud

    @eversor:

    Why would I vote Trump? I’m an American.  You’re the one who is distracting from Trump because Hillary triggered you.

  171. 171.

    eversor

    @Elizabelle:

    He actually managed to get elected and is loved.  Can you not see the difference?  Or you going to throw away a Trump take down to say you were right on voting.  Choice is yours.

  172. 172.

    SteveinPHX

    @apieceofpeace:

     

    Wanted to reply to your last paragraph. I don’t see much changing/improving mankind. We have always had TFGs in our midst, always will. We just gotta be vigilant.
    Bill Shakespeare’s plays are replete with these creeps. Human nature hasn’t changed in the last 500 years; only the toys/weapons have changed. Richard III was a damaged man. So is TFG. There will be more.
    We HAVE to be vigilant!

    (sorry for being preachy)

  173. 173.

    Chetan Murthy

    @eversor:

    Clinton was a shit candidate and we are now in a world of shit.

    The fuck you on about.  Put down the goddamn crack pipe, motherfucker.  Jesus fuck.  She got 3m more votes than TFG, and the only reason she fucking lost is that the entire Establishment went after her tooth-and-nail.  Jesus fuck dude, what the fuck is your fucking DAMAGE?  And DIDN’T YOU FUCKING NOTICE THAT EVERYTHING SHE FUCKING PREDICTED HAPPENED?

    Jesus fuck.

  176. 176.

    eversor

    @Baud:

    Not triggered, I just hate the fact that “should have voted Clinton” keeps going out.  I voted for her!  In the primary as well!  But the fact is she’s toxic.  And if the Republicans get this back into a debate of Clinton VS Trump they are going to win.   We did not learn this in 2008, we did not learn this in 2016… you want to go 0-3 now?  For what?  It’s beyond dumb.  Focus on the target, not your own vindication.  I can’t believe I have to say this to grown ass adults.

  177. 177.

    CaseyL

    i remember reading about some intelligence networks that were rolled up soon after Trump took office, and thinking at the time that he had burned them.  It was a minor (!) story that had no follow-up.

  178. 178.

    eversor

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Don’t matter if you are right if a critical mass of people don’t like you and don’t believe you.  I voted for her in 2008 and 2016… and I knew this was over the moment she had her first debate.  Our system is rigged, yes, but that means we can’t and should not nominate on ability, we have to on ability to appeal.

  180. 180.

    lowtechcyclist

    @JoyceH: ​
     

    Reason I ask is that whatever it’s called, CNN just had one for “Mission To The Moon”, and it was a bit of a surprise how THRILLED I was to see it. Mission To The Moon! Ahhhh! It’s been too long!

    It’ll be 50 years in December. It still blows my mind that nobody’s been back since.

    My position on human exploration of space is almost entirely “hell no, send robots.” But we put men on the moon with the tech available in the freakin’ 1960s. I’d like to see a lunar mission just to see what differences another 50+ years of technological advances can make.

  181. 181.

    eversor

    @zhena gogolia:

    I know it’s not about what happens HERE but I see too much of it in other places and in public to ignore we don’t own goal all the damn time and then double down on doing it faster.   Your basic actions define what you do, focus on fuck trump the traitor, not goody clinton was wronged.  Focus all the time and for everything on trump, do not try to smart ass clinton was right into it.

  182. 182.

    Ruckus

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I believe that narcissists recognize other narcissists that are in deeper than they are, which would explain SFB’s regard for vlad. And as most narcissists that are deep into their narcissistic crap, someone like vlad is going to recognize a lessor example of his type, and SFB is certainly a lessor example of vlad’s type – narcissistic asshole deluxe. vlad is more narcissistic, smarter by quite a bit, and in his own arena far stronger, something SFB would recognize and admire. And vlad would know how to work SFB like few others would. Which of course he would and did in about a millisecond of first noticing any opportunity.

    Narcissistic assholes, of which vlad is not only a club member but a leading club member, would never skip a shot at someone like SFB when he could get something out of him. SFB is an easy take for someone like vlad. In his sleep easy.

  183. 183.

    jonas

    @RSA: ​
      Thank you. Whoever put together that “timeline” was looking at headlines, not reading the actual articles. A damage assessment of the MAL trove is underway now by the ODNI and, quite frankly, we may never actually know if anything was truly compromised because the intelligence is so sensitive that to merely acknowledge it was compromised is hugely damaging to national security.

  184. 184.

    Scout211

    @eversor: I can’t believe I have to say this to grown ass adults.

    I can’t believe that I have to say to you that we all are entitled to our own opinions and our own points of view.  We don’t all have to see it the same way you do.

  185. 185.

    RaflW

    @Geminid: Jared and Donald, together in an unairconditioned ‘white collar criminal’ federal detention facility dorm room.

    With no other room mates to regale with his stories of amazing prowess and how horribly he’s been wronged.

    The two of them deserve each other, and none of the rest of us do.

  188. 188.

    Lyrebird

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
     
    Yea I bet we are thinking of the same photo.

    Many commenters here on the places I read are beyond frustrated with the Mueller report. I don’t know, but I do remember that some things still had to be left out or left alone because of ongoing intelligence investigations.

    I guess we are learning more know about what those were about.

  189. 189.

    eversor

    @Scout211:

    You’re opinion is yours, I’m just saying that the non stop “but her emails” stuff isn’t working, hasn’t, has made shit worse.

    She was doomed from the start for a lot of reasons out of her control in 2016.  But running her and clearing the field, and the results of that lead directly to the end of Roe.

    You deal with the hand you are dealt, not the hand you think you have.

    Focus on Trump.

  191. 191.

    eversor

    @Citizen Alan:

    Don’t have to.   It’s not me you should care about.  It’s the fact that among everyone I know my age group who would vote democractic and did under Obama walked out over that stupid meme you throw out.

  194. 194.

    Chetan Murthy

    @zhena gogolia: What @eversor: has failed to understand, is that any long-standing Dem politician, and esp. any long-standing Dem female politician, is going to get this treatment.  Look at what they’ve done to Pelosi over the years?  And what they’re doing to Harris!  Yeah, The Establishment has it in for female Dem pols alright.

    People forget that:

    1. that “server” she kept her email on was vetted by WJC’s Secret Service detail
    2. No evidence has ever emerged that ANYTHING was ever lost from that server
    3. And by contrast, the State Department servers she was ostensibly *supposed* to be using, *were* penetrated and emails stolen

    What this slagging on Hillary is, is a defensive crouch that assumes, admits, concedes, that if the GrOPers don’t like a Dem pol, then we have to abandon her.  And.  That.  Is.  Some.  Primo.  Grade.  Bullshit.  There.

  195. 195.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid: ​
     

    I don’t believe in physical torture, but I wouldn’t mind making trump share a cell with Laura Loomer.

    He’d probably ignore her blatherings and just grab her by the…

  196. 196.

    Lyrebird

    @jonas: ​to merely acknowledge…

     

    Yeah that very handsome man in Nat Sec who testified for the J6 committee, the one who was so proud of what the 45 administration had accomplished up until J6?

    I wonder if he still feels that pride. UGH.

  199. 199.

    lowtechcyclist

    @eversor:

    What’s your favorite flavor of pie?  I’ve used the filter on passing irritants before, but this will be the first time I’ve used it on a regular poster here.  But I’ve gotta admit I’m tired of your crap.  So what’s your favorite pie?

  200. 200.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    Photography at that time would be a major pain in the ass inside a navy ship. Outside was tough enough but lighting inside a WWI destroyer with just more than zero room to even breathe would be rather close to impossible. That WWII sub that I gave tours on was a hoot because everyone had to climb down a vertical ladder of about 9-10 feet, on a smallish ship tied up to a dock, so there wasn’t a lot of movement but more than most would be used to. The compartment that the ladder went to the middle of was completely cleared of all equipment so maybe five close friends could stand in it. Every group, one person always stated how much roomier it was than they expected. Then I’d take them back into the rest of the ship. One person always grasped at how tight it was. Good times.

  202. 202.

    Gin & Tonic

    TFG may have torn up the Helsinki notes, but I can’t understand why nobody subpoenaed the interpreter. S/he will certainly recall what was said.

  203. 203.

    The Moar You Know

    I’d like to see a lunar mission just to see what differences another 50+ years of technological advances can make.

    @lowtechcyclist:  I agree but we are missing one big piece of tech that is going to cost a few billions to do.

    Spacesuits.  For pressure suits, all we have are the old Shuttle suits, and those are 40 years old and most of them pretty beat up.  They are dangerous.  We are still using them on the ISS but it’s long past time for some new ones.

  205. 205.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:

    Oh I think you are absolutely correct except I don’t believe his trajectory is less than 2 yrs. Been wrong before and wouldn’t mind being so again but I’ve seen a lot of aging, some in a mirror, and his timeline seems a bit more than 2 yrs. And no, I’m not taking any bets.

  210. 210.

    Citizen Alan

    @eversor: . The only reason I haven’t pie’d you is because comment sections become unreadable when assholes like you spam us with your bullshit. I genuinely do not believe you when you say you voted for Hillary. I think you’re lying. I think you’re really a Bernie bro who is still bitter to the point of madness that your God king lost in a fair fight to a Woman.  But pretending you voted for her even though you think she is the worst candidate in the history of politics allows you to delude yourself into thinking we’ll listen to your shitty bad faith arguments

  212. 212.

    JPL

    The republicans had the power to stop trump, and they chose not to.   They own that.

    Some republicans will be able to see what documents were uncovered.    I assume they will squeal to the boss.

  213. 213.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JPL: Whenever I see somebody slagging on Clinton, the first thing that comes to mind is Comey’s “elect more women” t-shirt.  the fucker.  The unmitigated gall of that fucker.

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    @Citizen Alan:   I know.

    “She was such a shitty candidate, I voted for her in the primary too!”

    Do tell.

    Clinton and Christian both start with C.  This one triggers easily.

  216. 216.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Citizen Alan:

    But pretending you voted for her even though you think she is the worst candidate in the history of politics allows you to delude yourself into thinking we’ll listen to your shitty bad faith arguments

    Amen.

  217. 217.

    Tony G

    @Baud: Right.  And it should not be forgotten that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by about three million votes.  If the U.S. was an actual democratic republic then she would have had at least term as president and Trump would be the answer to a trivia question.

  219. 219.

    MattF

    @zhena gogolia: Good for you! I’ve been getting around my apartment without a cane for a while now— but still need one outdoors. And still no climbing steps. It’s balance rather than support for me. And progress is slow— someone likened it to sitting on the hour hand of a clock. You know it’s moving, but imperceptibly.

  224. 224.

    Elizabelle

    WRT Hillary Clinton:  She is an adult.  Had she been inaugurated, she would not have demanded all the attention that Trump has sucked out of all of us.  Even when we try to avoid him.  He and his orange face are still splashed all over the news websites.  May very well be negative stories about him, but it is attention, attention, attention.

    I really resent that.

    And I love having President Biden, who is working steadily in the background, accomplishing much of value, for longterm good, while someone (worse!!) sucks up all of the oxygen in the room.  Strange that.

  225. 225.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Elizabelle:

    She is an adult.

    And she’s done what adults do when they face setbacks: moved on and tried to live her best life.  Few public recriminations.  And a consistent care for *us*, the people of America.

  226. 226.

    Princess

    Trump. Is. Not. Stupid.

    Nor is he a genius. He’s venal and selfish and makes mistakes, but he is cunning as a fox. Look how he has fooled so many of you.

  231. 231.

    Baud

    @Chetan Murthy:

    And she’s done what adults do when they face setbacks: moved on and tried to live her best life.

     
    I personally sit in a dark corner and cry. But I agree wrt Hillary.

  232. 232.

    raven

    @Ruckus: I know an Aussie who was on the Melbourne when it cut the Evans in half.

     

    On June 3 1969, while operating with the Royal Australian Navy off Luzon, USS Frank E. Evans was operating in company with the Australian aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne. At flying stations, Melbourne signaled Evans, which was to port of the carrier, to take up the rescue destroyer position. The logical movement would be to make a turn to port and describe a circle taking up station on the carrier’s port quarter. Inexplicably, instead of turning to port, USS Frank E Evans turned to starboard, cutting across Melbourne’s bow and was cut in half in the ensuing collision. Her bow section sank instantly, taking 74 of her crew down with it. At the time of the collision USS Frank E. Evans’s captain was asleep and the ship was under command of a junior officer who was not qualified to stand watch, having failed at his previous board. As a memorial to her lost

  233. 233.

    Steeplejack

    @eversor:

    Oh, lighten up. People make that joke here on a weekly, if not daily, basis, and we’ve managed to survive. And you go off on (I think) a new commenter, who will probably now be traumatized back into lurkerdom.

    You have probably offended more people here with your spittle-flecked anti-Christian rants.

    Keep commenting, veyesok569.

  234. 234.

    JPL

    WHY     

    Just in: Federal judge issues order indicating preliminary intent to appoint a special master to review seized Mar-a-Lago materials — gives DOJ until Tuesday to file response and more detailed warrant receipt under seal

    Hugo Lowell (@hugolowell) / Twitter

  239. 239.

    Madeleine

    I don’t pie people. I just scroll past them. But i’m about to pie eversor.

    Oh, nice! A variety of desserts!

  240. 240.

    Elizabelle

    Another point about “but her emails”:

    It’s not merely a pro-Hillary Clinton comment.

    It’s about the irresponsible MSM media, and its feeding frenzy.  Its terrible framing of news, its search for a narrative (that might very well be false).  They bear a LOT of blame.

  241. 241.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Mai Naem mobile: I would not be surprised to learn that counterintelligence has already interviewed the interpreter (and did so long ago), but …. well, we hoi polloi aren’t meant to know these things.  That in fact they’re very aware of all the damage that’s been done, and all this “investigation”/”assessment”/song-and-dance is for our entertainment and distraction.

    Just like they all knew he was a fucking Russian asset and didn’t shout it from every tower in every city.

  243. 243.

    Scout211

    @Elizabelle: yes.
    It’s also a snarky way to point out the hypocrisy of all the right wing disinformation put out to make Hillary look like a crook but to turn around and say nothing when F-POTUS is actually an obvious crook.

  246. 246.

    zhena gogolia

    @JPL:

    ^ Rewords earlier tweet which was clumsily phrased. Judge Cannon says the order should not be construed as a final determination on Trump’s request — schedules hearing for Sept. 1 at 1p ET at federal courthouse in West Palm Beach, Florida— Hugo Lowell (@hugolowell) August 27, 2022

  249. 249.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JPL: What rubbish.  The only thing a special master should have to do, is sort thru which documents are Federal property, and which are not.  Nothing else matters.  So sure, give TFG back his newspaper and magazine clippings.

  254. 254.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JPL: I guess she should get in line for a TS/SCI security clearance.  Gosh I guess that’ll take some time.

  255. 255.

    Barbara

    @veyesok569: ​No one appointed eversor blog police. People make that comparison all the time in one form or another. It’s what I say to myself rather than emulating The Scream when, even though we know that there is no bottom, it’s still incredible to see how low they manage to go this time.

  257. 257.

    Jinchi

    @eversor: I knew this was over the moment she had her first debate.

    Well then you were wrong.

    The 2016 election was the perfect coin.on it’s edge election. A few thousand votes out of the 120 million cast made the difference. A slight breeze could have shifted it either way.

    The pollsters weren’t wrong when they predicted 75% odds of HRC clinching it.

    But 25% odds is not zero, and we live in the Universe where James Comey dropped a bomb on her campaign a week before the election.

  258. 258.

    Layer8Problem

    @JPL:  “I mean it’s as good as putting it directly into Putin’s hands!!!”  Yeah, maybe, but too many Trump appointees in the judicial realm haven’t given him the deference he feels he’s owed.  Some of those assholes might actually say “I’m cool with child labor and the like, but not with aiding and comforting our enemies.”

  260. 260.

    Chetan Murthy

    @eversor:

    I knew this was over the moment she had her first debate.

    The fuck is this?  You mean you thought “no puppet!  no puppet! you’re the puppet!” won the debates?  jesus fuck you’re a moron.

  261. 261.

    Lapassionara

    @Chetan Murthy: This! I am hoping that our intelligence services knew enough about Trump and his affinity for Putin to find a way to mitigate the damage he could do. It may be a vain hope, but there is still a lot we do not know and may never know.

  263. 263.

    tokyokie

    If the POTUS were to approach the IC seeking a list of the names of foreign-based intelligence assets, I would hope that somebody in the “Deep State” would be cynical enough to question the POTUS’ motive for needing such information. (Hey, I’ve read enough le Carré to think that MOST of them would be that way.) And although the POTUS might have the authority to make such a request, he/she has no legitimate need for it. So wouldn’t somebody in the IC see such a request as an opportunity to provide the inquisitive fat man with a list of highly placed officials who have NOT been working for the CIA and/or other agencies? (Which is more or less the plot of The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, in which MI6 sacrifices the main character in order to compromise and remove a formidable East German agent.) The apparent roll-up of suspected spies has not crippled U.S. intelligence capabilities in Russia, as President Joe’s skillful dissemination of intel during the run-up to the war in Ukraine demonstrated. But that doesn’t even remotely excuse tfg’s actions. Sadly, it’s not legally treason, which the Constitution explicitly defines, but it is heinous enough to justify his conviction and sentencing to consecutive prison terms to ensure that he dies in a prison cell.

  264. 264.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Lapassionara: I wouldn’t hold out much hope of that.  Just as TFG is too lazy to have done more than *ordered* that his minions box up all that TS/SCI material, he’d have been too lazy to take snapshots, to shop it around, etc.  But his minions?  Sure AF they did the work.  And that means they took snapshots of the stuff and already sold it on.

    My assumption is that any document that isn’t accounted-for from 20 Jan 2021, has *already* been shopped to our enemies.  I trust our IC is getting all those agents and informants out of harm’s way.

  265. 265.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia: Are you referring to the supposed “good looking” VERY CONSERVATIVE looking young guy that you and I spoke about this week? I recall someone saying something like that, but I don’t at all recall which one it was.

  267. 267.

    Layer8Problem

    @WaterGirl:  “Gee whiz, none of this is S.O.P.  I mean he tore up my notes and ORDERED me to forget what I translated, but I just can’t forget.  Whatever will I do?”

  269. 269.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia:

    Baby steps.

    Literally and figuratively, I imagine.  Congratulations.  Not the same, but after i broke my ankle my practice walking was in the hallway where there walls on either side of me.  Made me feel much safer and more confident.

  271. 271.

    CaseyL

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​

    Was this before or after the GOP acquitted Trump in his first impeachment trial?​ Or his second?
     
    Because the GOP Senators couldn’t have been all that horrified: they acquitted him twice, and continue to stand by hm.

  273. 273.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    Did we (i.e., the USA) have an interpreter there? For some reason I thought there was just one person in the room apart from TFG and VVP, and I thought that person was an interpreter on Russia’s payroll, not ours. Hope I’m wrong.

    Of course it it is our person, they should testify ASAP (and probably already have).

  274. 274.

    Chetan Murthy

    @WaterGirl: Can I just add, that for all these balance-trainers and such, it’s really, really  important to keep a hand on some support — a bar or post or something — so if you lose your balance, you won’t come crashing down?  I was in the gym with my mom, and she wanted to try one of those wobble-boards, and so she did while I wasn’t looking.  Next thing I know, she’s falling off it (b/c she was bracing herself against a flat wall, not something she could have grabbed) and comes *this* close to banging her head on a steel pipe (the base of a bench).  So damn scary.

  277. 277.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @CaseyL:

    Well, Feinstein’s a Dem, and she’s the only one I mentioned.

    Couldn’t be sure without seeing the photo with a caption and date affixed, but I think it was probably before TFG’s first impeachment. My memory for dates isn’t all that reliable these days, though, so I guess it could have been later.

  284. 284.

    Chetan Murthy

    @SteveinPHX: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/interpreter-marina-gross-notes-trumps-putin-meeting/story?id=60374126

    Marina Gross, a State Department interpreter, was the only other American in the room during President Donald Trump‘s one-on-one meeting with Russian President Putin in Helsinki last summer.

    [….]

    But it is Gross’ work in Helsinki on July 16 that has sparked the interest of Congressional Democrats because she was the only other American in the room for Trump’s two-hour long meeting with Putin and his own interpreter.

  286. 286.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: That is what I hope it is.  IANAL but the request for detailed information from the DOJ was requested under seal.  It sounds like it will be for her eyes only, I hope

    b. In addition to the Response, on or before August 30, 2022, Defendant shall file under seal the following materials:
    i. A more detailed Receipt for Property specifying all property seized pursuant to the search warrant executed on August 8, 2022.
    ii. A particularized notice indicating the status of Defendant’s review of the seized property, including any filter review conducted by the privilege review team and any dissemination of materials beyond the privilege review team.

  288. 288.

    Lapassionara

    @WaterGirl: Who knows. I think she should have told Trump to take his request to the Judge who approved the warrant. So I view this as a not good development.

  289. 289.

    Jinchi

    @CaseyL: Because the GOP Senators couldn’t have been all that horrified: they acquitted him twice, and continue to stand by hm.

    I thought Republicans would toss him overboard at the first opportunity.

    They all knew how toxic he was and that he’d be a disaster to the party. He cost them both the Senate and the presidency in 2020 and it looks like he’ll cost them more the next couple of cycles.

    Don’t know why they stick with him. I think they’d have been much happier with President Pence.

  290. 290.

    WaterGirl

    @Chetan Murthy: Good point.  I didn’t keep a hand on something – that wouldn’t help you learn to keep your balance – but I always did them next to a soft daybed. :-)

    Especially since I broke my ankle in an altercation with the vacuum cleaner, hitting my ankle on the heavy metal piece on the wood TV stand.

    So I am very aware of what is around me!

  291. 291.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Scout211: I don’t actually know how government documents work.  But it seems to me that almost all of these documents would have original versions on very secure electronic systems, and the printed versions that TFG got were printed for him, and carefully tracked, etc, etc, etc.  Which would mean that any “review” is just basically checking each page off the list of “what’s missing from our physical inventory”, and that’s that.  And sure, there’d be magazine clipping and tchotckes in the boxes, and they’d return those.  But the idea that somehow this judge has any business telling the government how it should go about retrieving its own property from a thief ….. FFS.

  293. 293.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    I was on DDG 18 which was bigger than a WWII tin can by a fair amount. I know because when I was stationed in Charleston there was a late WWII tin can on the opposite side of the pier. I even dated one of the crew’s sister in law. This destroyer was sent to Vietnam and none of the crew expected them to even get there. They did! I have no idea if they made it back, I was reassigned to Long Beach shipyard before they were due to return.

  294. 294.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl: No, not Clark Kent, who was sitting in the audience. This was in reference to Matthew Pottinger, who was testifying. He bragged about all their foreign policy “accomplishments,” in which we are “finally competing with China,” etc. He was repulsive. He wanted a cookie for resigning after TFG’s insurrection.

  295. 295.

    Chetan Murthy

    @WaterGirl:

    that wouldn’t help you learn to keep your balance

    I was thinking of the process of building up enough strength that all that was left was regaining balance.  B/c the muscles get weak and all.  But yeah, after you get enough strength that you’re really focusing on balance, then just having a proper grab-hold nearby, so you can keep your hand right there ready-to-clasp it, is probably enough.

    Just …. boy howdy, I can see that scene in my mind even now, 2+yr later.

  299. 299.

    Ruckus

    @Madeleine:

    As of today I have 2 people in the pie safe.

    Yesterday I only had one. I was going to add the one I did today a while back but I decided to be the better person.

    Life is too short to be that much better.

  300. 300.

    Danielx

    Color me shocked but not surprised –

    I have always maintained that FTFG’s oath of office meant no more to him than any other contract, promise, etc. We all know what that means, ask his former business partners, contractors or ex-wives. It follows that he would sell out his country in a New York minute if it would be profitable to or of benefit to him in any way. As long as there were no consequences to him personally, a circumstance of which he cannot conceive.

    I’m in Indiana and I can smell the stench of desperation and flop sweat emanating from Bedminster from here.

  301. 301.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Ruckus: One of the reasons I think @eversor is lying like a rug about having voted for Hillary, is that he’s repeatedly tried to shill for cryptocurrency in this comment section.  Cryptobros are more-likely-than-not also RWNJs.

  303. 303.

    Geminid

    @Jinchi: Republican leaders were afraid of alienating trump’s hard core voters. Enough of them sat out out the January 5, 2021 Georgia Senate runoff that Republicans lost two Senate seats. The trumpers thought that the RINOs had betrayed their guy.

    Republican leaders are still afraid. They’re still walking on eggshells with regard to trump because they need every voter they can get if Republicans are to flip the House and Senate. Those die hard trump supporters are a cranky, vindictive lot.

  306. 306.

    JoyceH

    @Geminid: ​
     

    I don’t think they’re just afraid that the base will sit out the election – I think they’re afraid the base will literally kill them.

    Was a story just on CNN about a guy who ran Evan McMillin off the road and threatened him and his wife with a gun. Happened some months ago and the guy is about to go on trial – the news story didn’t say the guy was a Trumper, but what else would be his beef?

  308. 308.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JoyceH: I get why someone like McMullin deserves both protection and sympathy.  But these GrOPers who side w/TFG b/c they’re afraid?  Fuck them!  They can fucking resign if they’re so afraid of doing their goddamn duty!  But no, they want the money and power, and fuck their sworn duty.  Cowards and traitors.

  309. 309.

    Geminid

    @JoyceH: It’s certainly possible that Republican politicians fear potential physical attack. But they know for certain that if the hard core trumpers stay home they’ll lose the House, and for Kevin McCarthy and his colleagues that’s like political death.

  310. 310.

    Lauryn11

    @Scout211: If Dems/liberals snark about Hillary forever it will make not one blind bit of difference to Trump’s vile base of support or any Dem efforts to cripple Trump politically. We can’t keep our shit together because memes? This is the same child-ass “it’s all your fault” argument MAGA peeps use when they say they were forced into involuntary white supremacy by elites/libs being so damned anti-racist.

  313. 313.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Lauryn11:

    If Dems/liberals snark about Hillary forever it will make not one blind bit of difference to Trump’s vile base of support or any Dem efforts to cripple Trump politically.

    This is part of why I have no patience with people who try to slag on Mme. Secretary.  But also because what they did to Hillary, they’ll try to do to *any* prominent female Dem pol.  We have to learn how to fight back against that, and it starts with refusing to let shit-stirrers get away with that in any conversation.  I have an otherwise-stalwart Dem voter friend, who says that the reason we shouldn’t have nominated Hillary is that the GrOPers really had it in for her: I always point out that if we’d nominated any other woman, they’d have done the same thing to her; that the only reason Biden didn’t get that treatment was (a) he’s an old white man, and (b) they tried anyway — it just didn’t stick.

    If the litmus test for a female Dem pol is “doesn’t incite the shit-flinging monkeys”, then we’ll never have a female President.

    As they say: “I am 100% in favor of voting for a woman for President; just not this woman.”

  314. 314.

    Chetan Murthy

    @WaterGirl: TFG took (the interpreter) Ms. Gross’s notes and destroyed them.  That’s all we know so far.  There were calls back in 2019 for her to be called to testify, but those went nowhere (that I’m aware of).

  315. 315.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: Even if there weren’t such heavy stakes riding on the midterms, I’d be hoping for a Democratic win just so I could see the looks on the faces of McCarthy, Scalise and Stefanik the day after.

    It would probably be their last press conference as caucus leaders.

  316. 316.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Put all together, the judge messaging the DoJ about the special master request sounds like being thorough rather than trying to give Trump what he wants.
    @Jinchi: ​

    Don’t know why they stick with him.

    They don’t. The overwhelming majority of elected Republicans have ignored what Trump wants for at least a year now. They stick with the Republican principle of Total War, which makes Democrats attacking any Republican president for anything, ever, an unforgivable crime that must be fought at every level. It also demands that Democrats only win elections by stealing them, and has demanded that for a long time.

  317. 317.

    Feathers

    @Chetan Murthy: Yup. Masshole here. Look at all the people who looooved Elizabeth Warren when she was fighting to found the CFPB, but started calling her “Pocahontas” as soon as she dared to run for office.

  318. 318.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Feathers: Yes, excellent example!  She was speared on the horns of a dilemma: if she ignored the taunts about her ancestry, they’d keep on with them; if she relented and got a test, she’d be caving, and they’d taunt her about that.  In the event, she relented, and a-yup, they taunted her about that, and b/c she was a wee bit insensitive with the wording of her announcement, she got even  more shit thrown at her.

    It was a no-win situation.  And they can and will construct such situations for any female Dem pol.

  319. 319.

    Lauryn11

    @Chetan Murthy: The decades worth of misogyny toward Hillary from the right and left may make her patient zero in our time but I will always remember Geraldine Ferraro in the debates and Poppy Bush bragging that he “kicked her ass.”  The shitstorm Kamala Harris will endure if she runs will be enormous. Before the GOP became so fashy and unmoored from reality I used to think a Republican would be the most likely first female prez.

  322. 322.

    Another Scott

    @Chetan Murthy:

    BI (from Jan 2019):

    […]

    Meanwhile, Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also called for the committee to bring Gross forward to testify on the meeting.

    “I believe the Senate Foreign Relations Committee should hold a hearing with the American translator who was present during President Trump and President Putin’s private meeting to determine what was specifically discussed and agreed to on the United State’s behalf,” Shaheen said.

    House Republicans blocked initial attempts to subpoena Gross in July. But Democrats are floating the idea once again after The Post’s report on Trump’s alleged attempts to hide the records of his conversations with the Russian president.

    House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff on Sunday tweeted, “Last year, we sought to obtain the interpreter’s notes or testimony, from the private meeting between Trump and Putin. The Republicans on our committee voted us down. Will they join us now? Shouldn’t we find out whether our president is really putting America first?”

    This also came after a report from The New York Times alleged the FBI had opened an investigation into whether Trump was an agent for Russia in response to his controversial firing of former FBI Director James Comey. The president railed against the report via Twitter over the weekend.

    ABCNews.com (from Jan 2019):

    Veteran interpreters are concerned that a Congressional subpoena of Gross or her notes of the meeting would set a dangerous precedent. They also question whether her interpreting notes would contain actual contents of the meeting itself.

    […]

    Harry Obst, the former director of the Office of Language Services who interpreted for seven American presidents, said that if he was placed in a similar situation, “I would not divulge any information.”

    “That’s because of the oath that you swear to not divulge any classified information on any level,” he said. “Because you have a top secret clearance.”

    A greater concern is the impact a subpoena could have on state leaders excluding interpreters from their meeting if they believe they could be subpoenaed by Congress in the future.

    “The whole idea of subpoenaing an interpreter is atrocious,” said Zarechnak. “What foreign leader would want to meet with the U.S. leader thinking that ‘well, the interpreter could be subpoenaed and tell Congress what the meeting was about.'”

    And a subpoena could also lead a U.S. interpreter to not rely on American interpreters.

    “The president would also have a great incentive not to use our interpreter if there was a danger that that interpreter would then be subpoenaed in Congress,” said Zarechnak.

    Zarechnak noted that was something President Richard Nixon practiced during his his one-on-one meetings with Soviet leaders in the 1970s.

    “Unfortunately President Nixon and [former Secretary of State Henry] Kissinger specifically did not use our interpreters,” said Zarechnak. “I guess for the sake of their secrecy” they relied only on the Soviet interpreters during their meetings.

    Crazy system, nicht wahr??!

    More at the links.

    Presumably Schiff and the others figured they could get the information they needed other ways.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  323. 323.

    Ruckus

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Well my comment about pieing someone was about alwayssore. This last comment was that bridge too far. And I don’t care about his politics it’s just that he works so damn hard at being a total fucking ass.

  324. 324.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    Bolts and everything else rusted to dust.

    That ship across the pier was a disaster happening every day. Someone thought the navy should have 600 ships but never had a clue how long or how much money or people it takes for that to happen. Or how much money is wasted keeping 30+ yr old barges operating. The storage fleets are almost all gone now, some of the ships in them were WWI and early WWII crap. The hulls and every thing else rust away so even the scrap value is nil.

  326. 326.

    Citizen Alan

    @Lauryn11:  It is already an article of faith among the MAGA trash that Kamala Harris is a literal prostitute. That she could never have achieved any success or prominence in her life had she not been romantically involved with Willie Brown nearly 30 years ago which the swine will all loudly insist consisted entirely of copious amounts of blowjobs.

  327. 327.

    linnen

    I considered this a matter of if, not when since 2003.

    Valerie Plame (covert in 2003) was outed to Robert Novak by the Bush administration. According to testimony given in the CIA leak grand jury investigation and United States v. Libby,most likely Karl Rove (Deputy Chief of Staff), Scott Libby (VP Chaney’s Chief of Staff) and Richard Armitage discussed the employment of a then-classified, covert CIA officer, Valerie E. Wilson (also known as Valerie Plame), with members of the press. The Grand Jury (2007) did not result in the indictment or conviction of anyone, though Libby was indicted on 5 total counts related to this. He was convicted on four counts, Bush commuted his sentence, And Trump pardoned him 2018.

  329. 329.

    RSA

    @JoyceH:  I don’t think they’re just afraid that the base will sit out the election – I think they’re afraid the base will literally kill them.

    Or somebody will.  Sometimes I read a story about a crime, and I’m sorry it happened but still find it hard to sympathize with the victim.  I should try to be a better person.

    An individual reported a fake crime at Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.) home early Thursday morning, the second “swatting” incident at her residence in as many days, authorities said…

    That individual [on the day before] called 911 using a computer-generated voice to claim an individual was shot multiple times at Greene’s house, and the individual later placed a second call saying they were upset about Greene’s views on transgender youth rights.

  331. 331.

    Tony G

    @Chetan Murthy: In general women in (or seeking) positions of power can’t win no matter what they do.  Things are better than they were a half-century ago, but not by much.

  332. 332.

    linnen

    I messed up the order of ‘if’ and ‘when’ in my first sentence.

    Given the how the GOP leadership talked up the military vs how they actually treated the military from 2000 on made it inevitable that other Republican bastions in the Federal Government be treated in the same fashion. The latest being “Back the Blue” then vs “FBI Traitors” now that is going on.

  333. 333.

    Noskilz

    Trump should end his days penniless in a supermax prison, and at the rate he is going, it’s not implausible he will.

  338. 338.

    SteverinoCT

    @El Muneco: ​
     

    Arnold slander. He saved the country at least twice before his betrayal, and was frankly ineffective afterward and didn’t do a lot of actual harm. It’s more the symbolism that makes him infamous than the amount of damage he did.

    Waaay late to the thread, but here I sit in Groton CT, where Arnold (born just up the road in Norwich) had his troops attack and take Fort Griswold, while he watched from across the river in New London. While more of his troops were burning New London. The commander of the fort, Col. Ledyard, surrendered his sword to the British troop commander, who in a fit of anger at the defense Ledyard led, stabbed him with his own sword. Not on Arnold, of course, but still.
    Granting that Arnold was a legit hero and was screwed before he picked the wrong winner.

  343. 343.

    Paul in KY

    @SteveinPHX: I would say Richard III was a much better individual than TFG.  I think Richard had his nephews murdered. He had Lord Hastings and a few others of Edward V’s detail murdered and also (along with Edward IV) illegally stole land from political opponents and he was probably in with the extra-judicial murders of Henry VI and his son.

    But, I think he was a much better person than TFG.

  344. 344.

    Paul in KY

    @eversor: If we can’t state the fact: Hillary Clinton is 100 times a better person & executive & leader than Donald Trump and should have been overwhelmingly elected President in 2016.

    Then what the Hell lie can we tell, oh Hillarysinmyheadite?

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