American Democracy needs Charlie Crist to beat Ron DeSantis and become Governor of the State of Florida. I’m convinced this is a critical race, on many levels. Maybe I’ve learned the wrong lessons from reading Betty Cracker; I’ll accept that.
This started with me pondering how Jim Crow developed. How Southern states, in the US, used terror attacks and “we all hate Negros” and “Brother versus Brother!” and the sheer exhaustion of our Civil War’s aftermath to break what goodwill existed for equality. From that lens? DeSantis terrifies me.
For example, here’s one of many key issues:
DeSantis has taken over all three branches of government in Florida. There is nobody in the state willing and able to hold him accountable. The Miami Herald editorial board calls it “unchecked one-man rule.”
Trump is a Trumpist. But DeSantis is a fascist. (Emphasis Mine — MD)
I see in him the capacity to build a modern Jim Crow system of perpetually abusive and fascist governance. No “Gilead” babble, this time. Just straight-up “here’s how we abuse people to hold power“ in our modern era. And yes, that’s different from using a mess of ad hoc asshole attacks for petty gains.
What gives me hope? We, as a Country, are in a position to break the back of that effort. At least, for a time.
DeSantis is not smart. Yet neither were most of the architects of Jim Crow. Like them, DeSantis is fairly methodical. He’s also clearly ruthless, and beyond any norms of morality or empathy. He’s also patient, willing to play a somewhat long game.
I’ve worked for a “patient racist,” briefly, in Strom Thurmond. I never want to fight one in the White House — and neither do you, I’m sure.
Worse: Abbot and others wish they were like DeSantis, I suspect. DeSantis emboldens the rest of these assholes, even more than they already are! His ambitions — and the support he’s getting for them — are where my opinion that he needs stopping now comes from.
Stopping DeSantis’ rise now sends the strongest possible signal, next to controlling all of Congress, that America is rejecting even warmed-over Trumpism. It’s a rejection that even the worst of the bothsiderism-addicted media cannot ignore. It allows us some small space to work on breaking apart the normalization of fascism he’s driving, right now, in our national media and elsewhere.
And his defeat signals other states, can cool their eagerness to follow down this dark road.
Now, I’ll close by saying the fight doesn’t stop there. Nixon rose back, as did…others. DeSantis losing will actually inflame some elements. Others will be eager to climb to power over his presumed political corpse. I don’t pretend this one act will Save Democracy.
But it’s a hell of a lot easier to keep ’em down, than to stop them once they get real fame and power.
(NOTE: I know Trump’s an issue, yet he’s an issue we talk a lot about. I’m concerned about who we aren’t looking hard enough at right now. Cool?)
MagdaInBlack
It’s cool. He scares crap out of me too. Definitely worthy of concern.
bbleh
Yeah he’s definitely in the top 2 or 3 most dangerous right now. But one thing that gives me some hope is, he’s personally really unlikeable, and it comes across immediately whenever you see or hear him. He frowns and he whines and he oozes hostility. The Fascists are beyond hope — they like some of that, and they’ll project their Übermensch ideal onto the rest of him no matter how he appears — but a lot of Normies when they first see him won’t like him. I don’t think he would fare well at all against Smilin’ Joe in a debate (which makes me think that, if it comes to it, there’s a good chance he’d refuse to participate), and sooner or later he’d have to make personal appearances beyond carefully orchestrated TV ads. And the other thing that gives me a little hope is, Trump will work to take him down, and Trump has a lot of money, and a deeply pathological need not to be #2 to anyone. Bring that one on, please, and I’ll root for injuries! (I also recall Chris Christie, and before him Pete Wilson, who seemed toweringly dangerous while they were still in their home states and then failed miserably on the national stage. It’s a big country, and what plays to a combination of Deep South, cranky retirees, and angry expats in Florida won’t necessarily play elsewhere.)
Shalimar
DeSantis is smart. Don’t underestimate him because he has chosen a boorish idiot public image. He’s a functioning sociopath on a level Trump can never be.
Elizabelle
I will write some postcards.
DeSantis is worse than Trump, no doubt.
FastEdD
Yes I worry we are spending so much energy trying to rid ourselves of the Orange Pustule that Baby Fascist will try to ooze in to fill the void.
Baud
Go Crist!
zhena gogolia
@bbleh: This is basically my take too. He doesn’t have TFG’s pre-fab TV image, and the image you get is really a turnoff.
But I’ve been wrong before!
HinTN
@Shalimar: You make the criticism I was winding up to make. I agree that he’s not at all personable but he is most definitely smart. That’s the scary part. The next one in line will have more personality, too. This shit never stops, it must be stopped.
Scout211
I see DeSantis as the front-runner right now, not F-POTUS. I posted an article last week that named a few GOP mega donors who are starting to contribute more to DeSantis now than F-POTUS. One of those mega donors is the owner of the SF Giants, so it made news here in NorCal.
Gavin Newsom agrees that DeSantis needs to be defeated.
Geminid
I hope DeSantis will debate Crist, and more than once. Crist has a good TV presence, and has shown no reluctance to hit DeSantis hard.
An Impact Research poll was taken after the primary and featured by Florida Politics. It showed DeSantis leading Crist 51-46%, within the poll’s 3.5% margin of error.
Property insurance is a very big issue for Floridians now. Crist was probably alluding to this in his primary night speech when he said:
Mike E
@Shalimar:
@HinTN:
This. Us being “smart” gets us to where we are now; what we need to be to defeat these fascists is “effective”.
Elizabelle
@Scout211: I wonder if massively publicizing DeSantis’s donors would help.
He’s appalling, and they are deplorable. Sunshine would be advised for all of them.
raven
Jamie Harrison didn’t balk at Biden’s “semi-fascist” characterization! “Let’s call it what it is”!
Scout211
@Elizabelle: Here is the article.
Elizabelle
If anyone has a link for how best to write postcards to Florida voters, please share it in this thread.
Many thanks.
@Scout211: Thank you. Not on twitter, but publicizing DeSantis’s donors would be a good reason to join… Shame them.
Cameron
I consider DeSantis far more dangerous than Trump, if for no other reason than that Trump is incompetent pretty much across the board. I tried to think of something that DeSantis has done for Florida and Floridians, and I can’t think of a single thing.
Josie
@Elizabelle:
Yes, the donors should be publicized with emphasis on what they hope to gain from his win. People need to see that he is not interested in making their lives better. I saw Crist allude to this in an interview, and I think it is a good way to present the facts.
MagdaInBlack
@Scout211: One of our local Chicago billionaires, Ken Griffin, decamped to Florida because he couldn’t buy a Governor here
Eta: He went to Boca Raton HS, so….back to his roots.
Leto
Defendants targeted in DeSantis’ voter fraud crackdown were told they could vote
DeSantis suspends four Broward County School Board members, appoints replacements
And for the trifecta:
Ron DeSantis replaced elected attorney with one bringing back “Biking while Black” policy
Elizabelle
@Josie: Let’s do it.
Perhaps we could organize it via Balloon Juice.
With any name other than “Actual Citizens United.” I hate that one. It’s derivative. We can do better.
I will have to learn to use social media. Alas.
sdhays
@Leto: Why the fuck are these positions “elected” if the governor can just dismiss them and appoint replacements?
Leto
@Cameron:
Here’s a quick 5 point list.
MisterDancer
@Elizabelle: Peeking at Postcards To Voters, their Facebook says they are working on local races in FL (among places). I don’t know if they have plans with Crist.
Leto
@sdhays: That’s the part I don’t understand, the legality of it. But authoritarians/fascists don’t give a shit about the law except how they can use it to inflict harm to their enemies.
Elizabelle
The Miami Herald (quite a good paper) has launched an Elections 2022: Facts and Fiction electronic newsletter. In English and Spanish.
You should sign up for it.
https://t.news.miamiherald.com/webApp/mccSignUp?newsletter=miamiherald_election_2022_newsletter&ac_cid=DM690191&ac_bid=762704119
Scout211
From Open Secrets.
MisterDancer
I suspect the original intent was to quickly replace people who aren’t doing a good job, ala impeachment.
DeSantis abuses the process to install yes-people.
Baud
@raven:
👍
Scout211
nevermind. Thanks for the rescue from moderation. 😊
Josie
@Elizabelle:
I really don’t want to use social media. I am definitely interested in using the post cards to voters if there is an organization for Florida. I just recently learned of a program by Beto’s organization for writing letters to voters in Texas. I plan to join them soon.
https://act.betoorourke.com/go/LetterWritingHub
If anyone has a link for a Florida organization, please post it here.
oatler
He’s using the old “destabilize, cause chaos, and in the middle of civil disorder, move in.”
Ruckus
@Shalimar:
This.
I think death santa gets along in FL because of the nature of the state. A lot of retires with a smidgen of money who seem to me to have been a bit more conservative than liberal. The type that doesn’t understand why they need to pay for public education or public health care, they did fine, they are taken care of so why should they support those who can’t support themselves just because the world has changed a tad in the last 50-60 yrs, after all they got along fine and live in nicely maintained closed housing developments. And along with them is a wide range of people with many types of jobs, living in a beautiful state, (and yes I’ve been there and have known people that live there in days gone by)
However. death santa has decided that he is going to be the next step in the development of a conservative, white, stupid country. I believe that the bigger stage will make his attempt to outdo SFB in his boorish, garish, stupidity fall flat. I believe that what Joe is doing will far outweigh that persona that death santa is bringing to the stage. People have seen what stupid racist hate gets a country this size, and while many will be drawn into that stupid racist hate whirlpool, at the end of the day that whirlpool always sucks in those not smart, nor human enough to move beyond their own hate and stupidity, and it drowns them with same. We can be better, we outnumber them, they are the asshole of humanity, the rest of the body is bigger and doesn’t smell as bad.
Barbara
@MisterDancer: When I write postcards the focus is usually the local races but we are also instructed to include something about the statewide races as well. So it’s a ground up kind of thing, starting at the district level, but incorporating statewide races. Turnout for locally competitive races also helps statewide races.
Suzanne
DeSantis isn’t the embodiment of the shitty low-potential white man’s id in the same way that Trump is. He’s like if you bought TFG off of Wish.
Cameron
@Leto: My fault – I should have specified anything useful.
CaseyL
It also helps DeSantis that the Florida Lege is stacked with RW nutjobs who won’t oppose anything he does, like Trump’s first 2 years when the GOP controlled the Senate.
My Mom (who lives in Pompano Beach, after most of her adult life spent in Miami Beach) says the northern part of Florida is divvied up into many, many small counties – all of them very GOP/RW – while in the bluer areas in the southern part of the state, where most of the population lives, the counties are drawn to be huge. Since the state Lege is county-based in terms of representation, the tiny northern counties can always be counted on to outnumber the southern counties. It’s basically gerrymandering on a county level, and it’s permanent.
Obvious Russian Troll
@zhena gogolia: Scott Walker was once thought to be a front runner in the 2016 primaries. That worked out really well. I’m also not convinced that DeSantis will end up as the nominee.
Having said that, whoever ends up as the Republican nominee will almost certainly be both terrible and terrifying.
Frank Wilhoit
@HinTN: Smart? I don’t see it. DeSantis has not done anything that shows me imagination or resourcefulness, only brute-force domination. I think his bag contains very few other tricks. In this, I think he is exactly like Trump. The affect is different, but that is only because New York. (Florida is famously inhabited, even today, by carpetbaggers: where is DeSantis from? I get a little bit of an Indiana/Kentucky vibe from him.)
Baud
I was out and sitting next to me were a group of very loud white people from Florida.
And they HATED DeSantis!
Anecdatum. But nice anecdatum.
Citizen Alan
@Scout211:
Can anyone name a single billionaire who’s not evil in some way?
Ruckus
@Cameron:
death santa doesn’t do anything for Florida. He does everything for death santa, which of course makes everything far worse for everyone other than death santa. Now SFB is similar except for one part. And that is that death santa is a tad smarter. He’s no more nor no less racist. His tad smarter gives him a better/worse launching pad for being a member of the worst human segment. The only saving grace is that because even though he’s smarter than SFB, and therefore more dangerous, he’s also even more of a racist fuck and therefore his hate and racism is far more obvious. Which of course seems impossible. But it is a pivot point for anyone opposing him and it should lose him wide support.
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
Illinois’s governor.
I’m not sure William Buffet is evil.
Bill Gates gave us better 5G reception.
Lyrebird
And when his idea of a good soldier is one like his press secretary, ginning up violence against teachers, parents, kids…
I am scared of him too.
Ruckus
@Frank Wilhoit:
death santa is smarter than SFB. That does not make him less evil, it makes him more. It means he won’t step on his own dick as often, it doesn’t mean he never will. SFB at least tried to focus some of his stupidity on making money rather than making racists. death santa is more focused, thinks more about how to get, well not ahead, his only gear is reverse but he thinks more about how to hate. SFB had to split his limited brain power between getting money (not making it – getting it) and pure racist hate. death santa gets support for focusing on racism and hate. And that is why he is more dangerous.
MisterDancer
There’s a few reasons I used terms like “methodical” and “patient” to describe DeSantis.
One of them is that “smart” is a stupidly broad term in a lot of ways. There are too many ways to succeed for smart to mean much.
The example I give are the people who seem to lack any awareness or interest in anything. But bring up their favorite sport, and their deep memory, attention to detail, and data analysis will blow your mind!
DeSantis, to me, is dangerous in part because he knows how and when to strike to cause maximal harm, while courting the rich people we’re talking about. That doesn’t take a ton of IQ, but it does take a focus and presence of mind we need to be, well, mindful of.
This isn’t an IQ test, in my mind, and debating it as such risks missing exactly how he’s approaching enabling his Fascist approach.
Brachiator
@Scout211:
A side note. I don’t know who these businessmen are, or how they earned their money, but they all clearly seem to want an ugly America. DeSantis and Trump share some bad character traits. They both seem to thrive on ignorance and sullen resentment. They both enjoy hurting those who defy them.
The plutocrats who donate to DeSantis must be some screwed up individuals.
Geminid
@Frank Wilhoit: I think DeSantis’ mother was from the Youngstown, Ohio area.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Nice.
He is so repulsive. Hard to be more repulsive than TFG, but if you squint while looking at TFG, you see this big powerful blonde guy with a red tie. No squinting helps with DeSantis. And he can’t carry off the “elf” type insults with the same brio as TFG.
My husband scared me when he first saw TFG, back when he was sparring with Megyn Kelly and saying blood was coming out of her everywhere. I was showing it to him to show him how ridiculous TFG was, but he said, “He’s very effective,” in an apprehensive voice. He thinks DeSantis won’t get anywhere. I hope he’s right, as usual.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: But that phrase “in some way” covers a lot of ground. Gates is evil “in some way.” I can’t think of any billionaires who aren’t evil “in some way.”
But maybe that’s true of all humans.
Geminid
@Ruckus: I think the principal difference between DeSantis and trump is DeSantis is not as lazy.
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
@Ruckus:
the lowest of low bars
Brachiator
@Citizen Alan:
Oprah.
hells littlest angel
DeSantis does have Mussolini’s squinty piggy eyes.
JPL
IMO Youngkin is another that might run. He’s more appealing than DeSantis, but his policies are the same.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
True.
Ruckus
@Cameron:
death santa never does anything that he doesn’t think will help him hate more. He is pure racist hate. Which is why he is more dangerous than SFB. SFB is like a racist mayor of a small town. death santa is more like an ignorant Hitler.
hells littlest angel
@Citizen Alan: I can’t think of a single human being who isn’t evil in some way.
Baud
Is DeSantis someone who would be under the thumb of foreign adversaries?
JPL
Nikki Fried just posted this
oatler
The ABC show is on now, and the headline theme is DEMS DIVIDED. Christie is opining on Mar-a-Lago.
bbleh
@sdhays: @Leto: @MisterDancer: I think state law actually specifies that people who hold many (all?) of those and similar positions can be removed for cause by the Gov. And it would appear that right now DeSantis is using “I don’t like it and I can make it seem at least temporarily politically unpopular” as “cause.”
Baud
@JPL:
👍
Baud
@oatler:
What are we divided on?
bbleh
@zhena gogolia: Good point: the TV history is another thing, and one that is too often overlooked when it comes to TFG. I’m reasonably comfortable saying that in 2016 most of what most people thought they knew about TFG was directly from, or built around or spun off from, his Apprentice persona. DeSantis ain’t got that.
(And along the same lines, I think that’s what the Republicans are trying with Oz and to some extent with Walker — count on celebrity to win the election — and so far it doesn’t seem to be working nearly as well.)
Geminid
@JPL: I have a hunch Youngkin will bide his time and lay the groundwork for a run in 2028. But you never know when it comes to ambitious politicians.
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
@Brachiator: I wouldn’t call her evil but she did give us Oz and Dr Phil, so……………..she’s not NOT evil.
Baud
@Geminid:
He’ll have to wait until 2032 if a Republican wins in 2024.
bbleh
@Baud: It is our intrinsic nature, you see. It is written in the Book of Narratives (Chapter 2).
Brachiator
@Baud:
Interesting question. I only have an image of DeSantis as a small town, or state political boss. I wonder if there are good stories about his rise to power in Florida.
kalakal
DeathSantis is potentially far worse than TFG as he’s smarter and more focused ( a low bar, but still). OTH he comes across terribly in person. For MAGAts who see TFG as ‘like them’ & ‘not a politician’ he’s hopefully not that appealing. He’s just a whiny man in a suit. TFG has some weird charisma, can’t see it myself , but millions vote for him, get fired up by him. No one is going to get fired up by the personal charisma of Ron, the I-Speak-Your-Weight- Machine, DeathSantis. He scares the hell out of me and in any sane world would lose by a mile.
Baud
@bbleh:
I thought it might be about our deep division over whether Republicans are semi-fascist or full frontal fascists.
bbleh
@Citizen Alan: @Baud: @zhena gogolia: @Brachiator: @hells littlest angel: MacKenzie Bezos seems to be doing okay so far, but maybe that’s cuz she didn’t have to do evil things to get the billions.
Jager
@Baud:
We stayed at the Sheraton in Honolulu on vacation last week. We rode down on the elevator one morning with a cranky white couple, the guy had on a MAGA hat and a scowl on his face. We ended up following them out of the hotel. As we strolled through the concourse, several other guests actually told the guy to “fuck himself”. I’m sure he had a wonderful vacation. I would guess Hawaii’s diversity was making him very nervous.
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
@bbleh: Well, she did have to fuck Jeff Bezos…
Baud
@Jager:
Hahaha. His feelings were fucked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Obvious Russian Troll:
I agree with you, z-g, and bbleh. He may be dangerous and the front-runner for 2024, but a lot of these people do not scale up well. They are formidable in their states, but cannot make the leap to national politics. I have yet to see how DeSantis differs from such previous behemoths as Christie and Walker. Or Rubio and Cruz for that matter.
Geminid
@Baud: That is true. But 2024 will be a a shitshow on the Republican side that Youngkin may want to avoid. He’s a shrewd guy and might not see 2024 as a good year for Republicans. And he could easily wind up in the second spot on the 2024 ticket anyway.
Paul Ryan is another Republican who is laying back and probably waiting for 2028. But if DeSantis gets knocked out by Crist the field will be reshuffled. I think Christie and Pompeo are running for sure.
bbleh
@Baud: “Democrats are deeply divided over whether to use the ‘F-word’ at all. Here to discuss the matter are (1) a professor of linguistics, who will attempt to describe the origins and meaning of the word until interrupted by one of our Republican panel members, (2) a professor of history, ditto, (3) a Republican who will argue fiercely that it’s actually Democrats who are Fascists because Obama something Hillary something Vince Foster emails PC cancellation school loan forgiveness, and (4) a Republican who will ask Serious Questions about whether being a Fascist is really such a bad thing anyway.”
Elizabelle
@Jager:
More of this.
They want to wear the swastika, they get the blowback.
Germany didn’t do that. We can. Ukraine shows the way.
Omnes Omnibus
@Citizen Alan: Bruce Wayne.
Elizabelle
@oatler: Seriously? Have you emailed or called them about it to register a complaint?
JPL
@oatler: From what I gather the shows were highlighted Biden’s spending spree. It’s possible that we have the biggest national security scandal ever, and they let it go.
Baud
@bbleh:
A diverse array of voices from across the political spectrum.
Elizabelle
@JPL: If you weren’t telling me what the Sunday “public affairs” shows were doing, I would never know.
They’re for Republicans and defense contractors.
Do you think younger people watch them? Other than the MSM masturbating each other, do they have any effect?
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Franklin Templeton. Charlie is the founder’s son, showing yet again that inherited wealth creates the Bestest Americans. His giving patterns reveal a deeply cynical individual.
Not to worry, there are six Johnson kids to carry on the legacy.
satby
@Citizen Alan: Pritzker, Governor of IL.
NeenerNeener
@Brachiator: Oprah gave us John of God, Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil, among other nasties. She’s got some explaining to do when she meets her maker.
Mike in NC
Many people are saying DeSatan is Trump with a brain.
Scout211
My sister lives in Orlando and is a Democrat, but is a normie. She always calls DeSantis an idiot, but she lives in “deep blue” Orlando and somehow feels insulated and protected living there. Orlando just re-elected Jerry Demings mayor of Orange County and she was happy about that.
But she also told me that this was the first election since moving to Florida 30+ years ago that she studied each and every state and local race on the ballot and voted on all of them. As insulated as she feels, she is more engaged this year than she ever has been.
She is only one person, but retired people in Florida are not always Republicans. Many of them could be normies like my sister. Hopefully, the Democrats have a strategy to reach out to them and help them get engaged in the election this fall.
Baud
@Scout211:
👍
trollhattan
Meanwhile, Saudia Arabia continues to bring fifteenth century values into the current one.
RaflW
@Leto: I don’t understand what authority the governor has to remove these people. I read the article about the school board and it just says he did it, and relied on the grand jury report for justificaiton.
But justification is not the same as legal authority. I suppose the FL Supremes are as bought-and-paid-for GOP operatives as the scrotus six and would just ‘find’ the ability of DeSantis to run roughshod over any elected underling.
But it’s f’ing shocking.
Jackie
@Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:
Was just going to post exactly that!👍🏻
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Bruce Wayne’s intentions might not be consciously evil. But his/Batman’s obsession with bringing down every bad guy in Gotham City frequently leads him into morally questionable territory.
Cameron
I don’t know about the rest of the state, but wingnuts ousted moderates from both the school and health boards in Sarasota county.I was a little surprised by that.
Mike in NC
The thing is, in 2000 George W Bush cast himself as a bogus “compassionate conservative”, but by 2016 the Republican base wanted no more of that crap. Nobody going forward will get nominated as GQP candidate unless they prove on a daily basis that they are angry, hateful assholes. Remember that awful woman in Floriduh, working at some prison, who complained that the Fat Orange Clown wasn’t hurting the people he needed to hurt. Nice.
Baud
@Mike in NC:
They will put on any face they need to to win elections.
Violet
@Brachiator: I’m waiting for her apologies for Dr. Oz and Mr. Phil
artem1s
@bbleh:
weird how many of the state level GQP fascists who seemed dangerously unbeatable were completely destroyed by their own party in 2016. Christie, Giuliani, Cruz, and most especially JEB! all passively let TFG cake walk thru the primaries because they thought they could take him out at the end after the rest had been voted off the island. DeSantis’ biggest challenge in 2024 will be surviving whatever primary scrum Faux News and the GQP decides to cook up to keep the MAGAt and Kochs entertained. I haven’t seen enough of DeSantis to tell how effective he would be during a debate at cowing the other candidates. But I have seen enough to think he probably not entertaining enough, especially if Fox is running interference to keep TFG or one of the other batshit loonies on stage as long as possible.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
@Omnes Omnibus:
Richie Rich?
Amir Khalid
Hmmm.
Mike in NC
@Scout211: Why is it that so many right-wing billionaires own football teams?
bbleh
@Baud: well, for a MSM network perhaps. Faux wouldn’t bother with any ee-leetist “professors” or their dumb ol’ “facts.”
Kent
I can think of a whole lot of things….
Oh wait…you meant GOOD things.
geg6
@Brachiator:
Au contraire! She brought us Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil and Marianne Williamson. Fuck that shit.
Amir Khalid
@Mike in NC:
Let’s see.
Ruckus
@MisterDancer:
I don’t disagree with you at all. This is a hate fest, not an IQ test.
Both of these assholes hate, both with a passion. To me the difference is as you point out death santa is worse because he is more focused. Yes I think he’s smarter but I do think that smarter is focused on pure hate, that makes death santa a bigger threat. SFB is always trying to “get ahead,” death santa is trying to hate with more passion and a better understanding of his focus and how to obtain his goals.
I don’t think we disagree, I think we are just looking from different perspectives.
Kent
@trollhattan: It is honestly shocking to me that people still think they can be public dissidents against countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran and then go back home and visit and expect no consequences. What the Saudis are doing is horrific, but it is nothing if not predictable.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
So this part doesn’t actually happen. They worship the right wing Quarterback maybe, but not the owner.
Dangerman
@Citizen Alan: I’m going to modify that; can anyone name any legacy billionaire (i.e. family money like Koch, Walton, Trump) that isn’t evil in some way?
Another Scott
I agree that we need to take his threat seriously and work to defeat him and his enablers.
I haven’t seen this mentioned above:
BlackEnterprise.com:
The rest of our system needs to do its job as well.
And elected people need to be brave enough to stand up:
MiamiHerald:
Cheers,
Scott.
West of the Rockies
I live in California and no little about Florida politics. What exactly has DeSantis gone that is good or positive for Florida, or is his popularity just about hurting and humiliating the right (wrong) people?
Jager
@Mike in NC:
The owner’s share of the national TV contract covers the workers, the operating costs, and management. They get all the rest, tickets, concessions, merchandise, parking, and local media. If they don’t spend up to the salary cap, they keep the money. The teams split all the national advertising partnerships. Of course, many teams have gotten the local governments to pony up the cash for their stadiums too. Seems like it’s the perfect system for rich guys.
Kent
You have clearly not spent time in Dallas around Cowboy fans. They love them some Jerry Jones. It is kind of like the Trump cult, and many of the same people.
Now that piece of human garbage who owns the team in Washington DC? That’s a different story. I’m not sure he is very popular except among the most hard-core sex-offender MAGAts.
James E Powell
I may be too cynical & ignorant about the Florida electorate, but I expect both DeSantis & Rubio to win by comfortable margins. I confess that I do not understand it. Obama won twice, so it’s not like it’s Alabama or even Texas.
What it takes to unseat an incumbent is usually at least two serious claims against that are easily understood and widely believed. It can be one if it’s huge (economic collapse or major scandal), but it usually takes more than one.
Question for people in or familiar with Florida, what would be those claims against DeSantis? What would you say to try to convince a low information voter that he should not be governor anymore?
Ruckus
@Geminid:
@Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:
I think we all agree, both SFB and death santa are shit, nothing more.
I think SFB works as hard as he is capable of and thankfully that was not horribly hard – but he did have help, and death santa is yes, more focused and not as lazy. And yes both are the lowest of low bar humans. death santa seems more dangerous to me, because he is more focused and less of an idiot.
geg6
@Amir Khalid:
The Rooneys are the exception to these rules, thank FSM.
Ruckus
@Baud:
We are all capable of the same emotions and traits.
How we grew up, how we react to things, how we use or abuse our traits and experiences, how we use our intellect, how we view other people, those are where we are different, where we have choices, to be better humans, or worse.
Scout211
@James E Powell: this is a big issue.
ETA: Crist is hammering away at DeSantis on this, effectively, IMHO.
Kent
I would suggest it is virtually impossible to earn a billion dollars in this or any other country without making morally egregious decisions along the way.
On the other hand, to answer your question. I would suggest that MacKenzie Scott, the former wife of Jeff Bezos, seems to be decent person who is doing a lot of good giving away her legacy billions. I’m not sure she is evil in any obvious way.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
And then they can still move the team if it suits their purposes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
In 2018, DeSantis won by less than .5%. Scott beat Nelson– who was apparently a nightmare of a candidate by just about every measure– by about .2%, about 10K votes out of 8M.
bbleh
@Amir Khalid: @Brachiator: And kudos to SF for telling the 49ers organization to get stuffed. (They did much the same thing to the Giants too, except it was a loan that was paid back.)
citizen dave
The thing about DeSantis that I think is not given attention by people, and the media, is that the guy BARELY won in 2018. 49.59% to 49.14%. Around 33K votes. Yet once in office he consolidated power and is treated by the media as a “rising star”, etc., and essentially the dictator of Florida. It’s bullshit.
I could see it he were POPULAR. Our longtime Senator Richard Lugar won with wide margins (until he was primaried by a nut), like in 2000, 66.6% to 31.9%; and in 2006, the Dems didn’t even have a candidate, and Lugar had 87.4% of the vote. Now that’s a popular politician.
Ruckus
@kalakal:
“He scares the hell out of me and in any sane world would lose by a mile.”
Since when has this been a sane world? Not in my nearly 3/4 of a century.
It has at times been saner than others and at times far less sane. We all have the same emotions, many of us let some of those emotions run wild and rule our lives. I believe that because of how many of us there are, we can no longer let the less sane run the place. That means conservatives, who think that going back to a time when getting their hate on was good times. We could never afford that, but now, given our world population we can afford it far less. We have to learn to live together, in a more crowed world or most/all of us won’t survive. I don’t have a great amount of time left, but humanity can, if it could learn to grow the hell up, rather than act like too many fucking kids on a playground, with guns and bombs and zero vision for what comes next other than more hate.
Martin
@Mike in NC: What part of ‘I want to own sweaty men that fight each other for sport and serves as a massive tax shelter’ doesn’t scream ‘Republican billionaire’ to you?
lowtechcyclist
@oatler:
Figure I should say upfront that the following invective is aimed at ABC (and the media-industrial complex generally), not at you.
In what alternate universe are these people living?? We just passed a bunch of new laws, which meant that practically every Dem House member voted for each one (and I think the ‘practically’ could be dropped in most cases), and EVERY SINGLE DEM U.S. SENATOR voted for them.
This is the most UNdivided I’ve ever seen the Democratic Party. It’s a fucking miracle, is what it is. WTF are these media loons saying we’re divided about??
Our so-called ‘liberal media.’ What a bunch of worthless schmucks. I’d just laugh at them, except the way they present things has a lot to do with how many Americans perceive the state of our politics.
Along those lines, who the Sam Hill gives a good goddamn what Chris Christie thinks? He’s not remotely close to being a Democrat, and Republicans don’t pay any attention to him. But somehow he’s become one of those media go-to people.
Another Scott
@Kent:
At the base of every great fortune there is a great crime. – (simplified) Honoré de Balzac.
Gates was a monster. Ford was a monster. Rockefeller was a monster.
Taxes on the 0.1% and above need to be much, much higher.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jackie
@artem1s:
“I haven’t seen enough of DeSantis to tell how effective he would be during a debate at cowing the other candidates.”
From what I’ve seen of him recently, every sentence he utters will include “the WOKE LEFT” in it, with spittle flying out of his mouth.
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
“He’s not remotely close to being a Democrat, and Republicans don’t pay any attention to him. But somehow he’s become one of those media go-to people.”
He is, for the media, the perfect political person. He’s not an either or. He’s nothing. The media gets to put out more crap, they seem to not be on either side, and the only way to do that is someone that everyone likes or no one likes.
Who fills that first part, everyone likes?
Who fills the second part, no one likes?
It’s the no one side, Christie, that wins this one.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@lowtechcyclist: I assume Christie is still in NJ, which means he’s in the NYC area. That makes him an easy go-to for interviews.
janesays
If DeSantis ran in a primary against Cheetolini, he would get absolutely annihilated.
DeSantis is clearly the 2024 frontrunner… in any scenario in which TFG isn’t running.
It’s still the mango fascist’s party.
oatler
@lowtechcyclist:
please understand my “Dems in disarray” quote was meant to mocking of ABC.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
Actual billionaire JB Pritzker. Best governor in the country (ya, I said it, California!).
cckids
This, plus he’s apparently purposefully remaking himself, physically, in Trump’s image – the navy suits, the overlong red ties, the fat/padding – even the weird stance and all the hand movements. So bizarre, and I cannot see who it’s appealing to. And so entirely mockable.
evodevo
@Kent: Yeah…that was my first thought…why did you even go back there? That’s just a stupid move…..and what didn’t she get about universal accessibility of social media?
Brachiator
@lowtechcyclist:
TV shows depend on rolodex punditry. They like to book people who can easily show up, speak coherently and fill the time until the commercial break.
Hugh Hewitt began his TV career doing this kind of thing on the PBS TV station in Los Angeles. He could quickly appear as a scheduled or fill in guest and spew bullshit about any political or legal topic.
Kent
I’ll raise you a Jay Inslee who is most definitely NOT a billionaire. We can compare WA and IL on whatever metric you want to use.
James E Powell
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Like I said, Obama won twice, but I think those days are gone forever. Do you expect this year’s elections, specifically DeSantis & Rubio, to be that close?
In 2016, Rubio promised not to run for re-election, did so anyway, entered the race late, and won 52-44.3%
I’m expecting a similar outcome this time around.
Jinchi
I knew DeSantis was evil when his reaction to Charlottesville was to legalize vehicular homicide.
I just don’t understand how anyone outside the klan can vote for these people.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
Youngkin will pass on 2024 because he needs more time to build up a reputation as someone who will stick it to the MAGAts’ enemies, especially after a campaign where he had to come across as a nice guy. The 2024 primaries will start just over 2 years into his term, and he’s been handicapped by a Dem-controlled state Senate.
Paul Ryan and 2028: you wait too long in politics, and nobody gives a damn about you.
I remember chatting with some of my students on the campus BBS back in 1995 when Dan Quayle decided to wait until the 2000 cycle, and I said that by then, someone else will have taken over the political space that Quayle was in. Who, they asked. I don’t know, I replied, but by then someone will. Turned out to be GWB, of course, and Quayle got about zero traction in 2000.
Ryan’s already a has-been. Same with Christie, really, though he’s at least keeping himself in the media. His problem is that there aren’t a lot of Republicans looking for someone who’s both a semi-sane Republican and an obnoxious blowhard.
I’ve got no sense of what Pompeo’s base would be. He strikes me as one of those pols who has a good inside game, but I’ve never heard of him getting a crowd all worked up.
James E Powell
@citizen dave:
DeSantis doesn’t need to be popular. He only need more votes than the Democrat. And in a national election, he doesn’t even need that.
Trump never had majority popularity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
No, just pointing out you don’t have to go back to 2012 to see FL as flippable.
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
Are you ruling out the tumbrels?
FelonyGovt
@Baud: Further anecdata- in a brief car trip this morning here in Southern California, I noticed 4 Florida license plates, and I’ve been seeing more and more lately. Visitors, or just people fleeing?
I don’t know what happened to Florida, though. I’ve stopped hoping their voters will come through for us.
Jinchi
@James E Powell: DeSantis only won the 2018 election by 0.4% , but incumbency is a powerful thing and the Rs have had a long run of winning very close races there.
The margins always seem pretty purple but the final tallies make the state look deep red.
Kristine
@mrmoshpotato:
He really is.
I confess I wasn’t optimistic. I voted for him, even as I thought ‘another damned billionaire’ as I filled out the ballot. But he’s been great. Really hoping he can hold of the Trumpy idiot running against him.
Geminid
@James E Powell: Rubio’s 2016 election margin is an outlier among recent Florida Senate and Governor races. The 2018 races were decided by less than .5%. The 2010 and 2014 Governor races were decided by less than 70,000 votes out of more than 5 million votes cast.
Cacti
Jay Inslee doesn’t live in Illinois or California, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Not what Balzac wrote, but I suppose since that your simplified version is the one that gets all attention it no longer matters. Maybe we could quit attributing it to Balzac though.
Jinchi
Maybe people who want to live in California, but pretend to live in Florida for tax reasons.
UncleEbeneezer
@MisterDancer: It is said to be fairly well established that Down-Ballot voting is nowhere nearly as effective as Up-Ballot voting.
IE- voters who are sold on Dem candidates at the local level will reliably pick a Dem for whichever Gov/POTUS candidate is at the top of the ticket, whereas convincing someone to vote for a Dem at the top is no guarantee that the voter won’t pull some Biden/Collins fuckshit. So if PC2Voters is working on FL Dem campaigns, they are already helping Crist’s chances.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mrmoshpotato: as I recall, Pritzker campaigned on creating a public option in the state. Did anything ever come of that? any bill or program? not slagging him if not, just curious/interested about how difficult it is to enact any kind of health insurance reform, much less single payer
Cacti
Florida will always be the poor man’s California.
mrmoshpotato
@Kristine:
I didn’t like having a billionaire running against a billionaire either, but I would’ve voted for whomever won the Democratic nomination. (Damn you, Blago! Fuck you, Blago!)
Regarding Republican gubernatorial nominee Darren Bailey, he can fuck off back to whatever hellhole he came from. And he can go fuck himself too.
Donatellonerd
who is SFB, please ?
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not sure.
mrmoshpotato
@Donatellonerd:
Shit For Brains – it’s Ruckus’s shorthand for the orange shitstain.
Amir Khalid
@Donatellonerd:
Shit For Brains, a.k.a TFG a.k.a. Donald Trump.
Skepticat
DeInsanity terrifies, disgusts, frustrates, discourages, and infuriates me. Apart from that, he’s probably fine.
Jinchi
@Donatellonerd: Haven’t seen “SFB” used before, but based on Ruckus’s comments it’s Trump (aka TFG, DJT). I’m guessing it stands for “stupid fat bastard” but Ruckus can confirm.
FelonyGovt
@Donatellonerd: I believe that is Ruckus’s term for the FPOTUS. Not sure what it stands for
ETA or what mrmoshpotato, Amir Khalid, Jinchi said- I must type very slowly
Benw
DeSantis is Bantha poodoo
Kent
mrmoshpotato claimed that Pritzker was the best governor in the COUNTRY. There are more than just two states in the country.
Cacti
@Kent: But he directed his remarks to California about who is the best governor in the country.
Pete Mack
Fix your wording. “DeSantis terrifies me” translates directly to “Vote DeSantis to own the libs” in Wingnut-speak.
prostratedragon
@satby: Yep. Couple of his relatives who are not in electoral politics, from what I’ve heard, as well.
Gin & Tonic
@Jinchi: Superfluous.
prostratedragon
@Baud: Warren Buffett? Yeah, probably no more evil than average for the rest of us.
Donatellonerd
@mrmoshpotato: thanks. I thought it must be TFG but i couldn’t figure out what it was an abbreviation for. appropriate although opaque. And thanks to the other responders.
AM in NC
@Cacti: My problem with California is that the entire coastline is useless to me. Why have an ocean that is too cold to swim in?
I was so horrified that even in San Diego the Pacific was unswimmable (for me). I love so much about Cali, but I could never live where the ocean serves only as a source of mockery!
FelonyGovt
@AM in NC: It’s great for those of us who think the ocean is wonderful to look at, listen to, and be next to. In it, not so much (unless you’re into wetsuits).
MisterDancer
I know my audience. This isn’t a column for a local paper. It’s in an explicitly partisan space, and every commenter so far got my meaning.
I refuse to defuse my righteous emotional state to build a bridge those asshats’ll just burn as soon as they can.
Another Scott
F = m * a
is not intuitive.
Neato.
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
patrick II
@Obvious Russian Troll:
My handicapping system for Republican races has changed. My thoughts in the old days fit into the broader category of political races in which the best man will have the best chance to win. Now, for Republicans, it is the worst man who has the best chance to win. So, I think DeSantis is the worst and therefore has the best chance to win.
Cameron
@janesays: If Trump is indicted in Georgia, DeSantis will have a hand-picked detail of FHP to escort him to the state line.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Newton FTW!
cain
@Lyrebird:
What I’m more concerned about is putting in election officials that bear allegiance to De Santis. He’s going to steal the election again because he’s got one of his people doing the counting.
He’s got the entire state legislature behind him. It’s going to be a shit show.
Kent
Cold water is far more productive than warm water. That is why the biggest commercial fisheries in the country are in Alaska not the equatorial Pacific. It is physics. cold water can absorb more oxygen than warm water.
The California coast is also cold due to upwelling in which the prevailing winds and currents bring nutrient-rich cold water up from the deep along the Pacific coast. That is why places like the kelp forests along Monterey are among the richest and most diverse marine habitats on the planet.
Find a swimming pool if you just want sterile warm water. I will take the California coast over say the balmy warm Texas gulf coast any day.
Baud
Photoshop.
https://i.redd.it/nvad4pjb2hk91.jpg
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: I thought Ryan made a smart move when he stepped away from the House in 2018. He saw the trainwreck that was coming. It probably will continue through the 2024 cycle. He can step back into the fray in 2028 as the former Speaker and VP candidate who can put the train back on the track. If Ryan doesn’t have some gray in his hair by then he’ll get some put in.
Pompeo’s base is billionaires. The Koch brothers sponsored his private sector and political career. Pompeo’s wealthy backers will see how far his national security “resume” can take him.
I don’t think Christie can win the nomination, but Christie believes in Christie and he’s going to try. I could see him picking up delegates in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, maybe the Midwest too and even California. Blue states get delegates too, I believe in proposition to their Republican voters.
One problem in handicapping the 2024 Republican candidates is that while they are all deficient in some way, someone has to win it. I think it will be DeSantis, but he has to beat Crist first.
Cameron
@Jinchi: And he definitely got his bully cred in order by yelling at high school students who were wearing masks. What an asshole.
Edmund Dantes
@Kent: are people buying into the idea that she did nothing evil as she was a major executive company as it was growing? Do we just assume she was just along for the ride or should we actually understand she played an instrumental role in helping to build Amazon as has been told in several profiles?
Baud
I will always dislike Bernie, but I believe in positive reinforcement, so good job on the messaging.
https://i.redd.it/6ofd7iw2lgk91.png
cain
@Jager: I’m sure his wife had a wonderful time with mr. McCranky Pissy Pants. I mean, nothing like taking a stroll and watching others tell her husband to go fuck himself – such a relaxing vacation – owning the libs!
cain
@Omnes Omnibus: In many ways, him getting out of FLorida to take his shit nationally and hopefully die there means that Florida would be rid of the asshat. Of course, he could come back and try to run for Senator or something.
Matt McIrvin
@Kent: Bathwater-warm oceans are how you get lots and lots of hurricanes, too.
brantl
De Santis is this little fistula of Gladys-Kravitz anger, wrapped around this fatass-white-guy machismo wannabe image that the Republicans take as sexy, because they don’t have anyone in their own camp who are remotely like that. The last guy that they had who looked remotely manly was Schwarzenegger, and he’s basically jumped parties.
Matt McIrvin
@UncleEbeneezer:
This seems counterintuitive to me but it’s probably because I grew up in the South when the remnants of the old Dixiecrat faction were still hanging around, and you had conservative Solid South Democrats who voted Democratic for local offices but always voted for Republicans for President.
West of the Rockies
@brantl:
You forgot to mention his Eddie Munster hairdo.
Cameron
@FelonyGovt: Oddly enough, I see California plates on some cars here in Oldpeopleland, SW Florida.
UncleEbeneezer
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t have any link to share but the hosts of SwingLeft’s How We Win podcast have mentioned it multiple times and both have pretty extensive experience working on GOTV campaigns for Dems. Some voters will only vote for the candidate at the top of the ticket but leave down-ballot boxes blank. The opposite (voting for local, state, House, Senator etc.) but NOT filling in the Governor/Potus, is extremely rare. Which makes sense when you think about how many people think POTUS is all that matters and don’t really care about (or understand) the importance of down-ballot races.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I think the new paradigm is Maine going for Biden while also reelecting Susan Collins.
Citizen Alan
@Amir Khalid:
“The team’s fans will worship you — personal affirmation!” Do they? I’d always thought most NFL team owners were despised. Like Dan Snyder, frex.
Mai Naem mobile
@Baud: one reason I would like to see JB Pritzker be POTUS or Veep is to see Fox et al go nuts about all the Hyatt hotels worldwide that the Pritzkers own and how difficult and expensive it would be protect them. Also how furriners could curry favor with Pritzker…how unseemly it would be to have a POTUS owning a hotel in DC where lobbyists could buy access. They would complain even if Pritzker had a blind trust . Let’s not even talk about the favorable tax treatment he would get if he sold his holdings even though Mnuchin, Tillerson and Wilbur Ross did the same thing.
MomSense
We leave for the airport in 2 hours. Just finished all the packing. Kiddo’s girlfriend and best friend are here and I’m making linguini with meat sauce and the onions are killing me.
Matt McIrvin
@FelonyGovt: Speculation: Florida is a place where elderly people go to retire. That means it’s possible to start a feedback loop where red-meat symbolic politics rapidly attract the most reactionary retirees (and repel non-reactionary ones), reinforcing the tendency.
It has occurred to me that one of the effects of the current anti-LGBT signaling there will be to make gay retirees think twice about going to Florida.
(But this doesn’t explain recent trends in Arizona, which you’d expect would be a similar case but where if anything their historic right-wing tendency is softening. AZ has a lower median age to begin with though. And the far West as a whole has been trending more Democratic for decades.)
SteveinPHX
@Kent:
I’ll never forget an IT guy where I work, who grew up on the west coast of Florida telling me about his 1st visit to CA as a young man.
He goes to the beach while visiting West Coast family, looks at that beautiful ocean, strips down to his bathing suit and goes running into the surf. About ten steps in he realizes that he’s about to die of frost bite. Does a 180 and gets out before he congeals. Never tried THAT again!
As an old Florida East Coaster, I have to agree. I’ve stuck my foot in the California ocean. Once was enuf!
Baud
@Mai Naem mobile:
The problem is that the NYT and mainstream media will also treat all those things as horrific scandals.
@MomSense:
Hugs. Is the girlfriend staying with you?
cain
@Amir Khalid: Interestingly enough, the series “Batman: The Dark Knight Returns” is exploring all about that. Frank Miller’s Batman was a highly questionable and possibly psychotic Batman.
“It was tough dragging 220lbs of psychopath up to Gotham Tower, the highest point in the city. But the scream alone was worth it”
”
Thug: No! Stay back–I got RIGHTS– [Batman seizes him and slams him through a window, with him falling onto the fire escape, cuts all over him and is bleeding profusely]
Batman: Yes, you’ve got rights. Sometimes at night I count them just to make myself crazy. And right now, you’ve got a huge shard of glass stuck in a major artery in your arm. Right now, you’re bleeding to death. And right now? I’m the only one around to get you to a hospital in time. So however long you take to tell me what I want to know? That’s up to you. Right now, would be preferable.”
Kent
Just because there are palm trees in LA doesn’t mean it is tropical. There are palm trees in Seattle too. Los Angeles is at the same latitude as central North Carolina. So it is much further north than any place in Florida. Also ocean currents generally circulate clockwise in the northern hemisphere due to the Coriolis effect so the water feeding the Southern California coast is coming from the North Pacific on the cold California Current. Whereas the water feeding the Atlantic coast is coming from the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico via the warm Gulf Stream Current.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: Yeah, though it seems like Frank Miller ended up going down that road himself, especially after 9/11 whacked him in the brain.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: I’m sure the onions are the only reason you are crying!
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s because Arizona isn’t really continuing to attract retirees like it used to. It’s now one of the younger states on average. They have a large Mexican population and lots of Mormons who have big (maybe not as big as they used to, but still big) families.
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: Snyder is especially despised because his meddling in team personnel has handicapped the team ever since he owned it. He’s also an asshole, but fans hate him because he is an incompetent one.
The NFL already fined the team $10 million and made Snyder take a leave of absence over running a work environment hostile to woman. There are additional allegations being investigated now, and the league will probably hit him even harder. But they won’t make him sell the team.
Snyder made a lot of money by age 40 by jumping into the message board business that shows advertising in public spaces and waiting rooms.
He was originally junior partner to another guy trying to by the team, but his partner was blackballed by an owner who claimed the partner cheated him on cable TV revenue, so Snyder got additional backing to buy the team.
Despite its mediocre record under his ownership it’s still a revenue machine.
piratedan
I think the not-stated but understood favoritism with GOP incumbancy, is that they are shameless about tilting the playing field when it comes to voter suppression and making voting a challenge rather than treating it as a right.
I would expect long lines generated in Dem strongholds because of a lack of machines, staff or ballots, where as those places where they are a deep red will have every possible convenience.
while our voters will be energized, don’t diminish that a GOP controlled state will do every damn thing it can to prevent those ballots from being cast.
mrmoshpotato
OT – Whoever thought having a woman invading people’s personal space and homes would be a good ad campaign? Fuck you, Priceline.
SteveinPHX
@Kent:
You’re absolutely right about the Gulf Stream. I hope global warming doesn’t change the flow of the Gulf Stream. I’ve read recently that it might be in danger.
The range of my temperature tolerance must be pretty narrow. I DO like playing in the ocean w/o benefit of wet suit tho.
Now I’m in PHX and doing without either!
All the best,
PaulB
I’m not going to try to handicap the 2024 Republican nomination, particularly if both Trump and DeSantis go at it. Some data points to consider, though:
Scott Walker was a top tier candidate in 2016. He was successful in trolling Democrats, had taken some really vile actions in Wisconsin, and had fought off a recall and subsequently won reelection there. He burned through massive quantities of campaign cash, had two lackluster debate performances, and watched as his support and cash dried up. He was out of the race shortly thereafter, one of the first to depart.
Rudy Giuliani was an early front-runner in the 2008 campaign. He didn’t even compete in Iowa, took fourth place in New Hampshire, and crashed and burned after a dismal showing in Florida, his firewall.
Jeb Bush was another top tier candidate in 2016, with both name recognition and a ton of money. He had locked down many of the major big donors early, trying to send the message that his nomination was virtually inevitable. Lackluster debate performances, poor results in Iowa and New Hampshire, and “please clap” did him in.
Mitt Romney, in 2012, was apparently neither liked nor wanted by Republican voters, as one after another of his fellow candidates took the lead in polling, only to later crash and burn, sometimes after only a few days on top. The party’s voters couldn’t coalesce around a non-Romney candidate, so Romney basically won by outlasting everyone else.
Few people, including me, gave Donald Trump much of a chance early in the 2016 primary. ‘Nuff said.
So what does all of this mean for 2024? Maybe nothing, but I did want to point out that we don’t know if DeSantis can put together a national campaign staff, strategy, and funding, and continue all of that for the full campaign life cycle. And we don’t know if DeSantis’s high-drama, anti-woke, grievance-laden campaign will do well with anyone other than the usual suspects in the Republican Party. And we don’t know yet how badly the candidates will hurt each other, particularly Trump and DeSantis. And we don’t know whether the Republican voters will want the ridiculous drama of Trump and DeSantis or whether they will want someone more low key and “mainstream.”
Right now, I think DeSantis is the de facto Republican Party front runner, regardless of the current polls showing Republican Party voters supporting Trump. I also happen to believe that DeSantis is beatable in the election (assuming that external factors, like the economy, are relatively neutral). That said, my political judgment over the past decade has been … less than optimal, so who knows?
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: What did I miss?
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Creepy, creepy damn ads on YouTube.
Dan B
@Citizen Alan: Nick Hanauer is a progressive billionaire.
eclare
@Mike in NC: Thank you for mentioning that woman. I will never forget that.
MomSense
@Baud:
Yup. Her mom died when she was young and kiddo told me she really likes being with me.
PaulB
@WaterGirl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xxQspI-hC0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h87ibfuRhVo
Dan B
@Ruckus: Deach Santa seems extremely homophobic. SFB was not – even hired some extremely right wing gay men.*
* I really wanted to use some nasty names but a willingness to work for SFB is awful enough.
Kent
Tons of young Californians go to college in Arizona because they can’t get into UCLA or UC-Berkeley and Arizona State sounds better than Cal State Fullerton. And because Phoenix and Tucson are cheaper places to live than Southern California.
Lyrebird
@Dan B:
DeSantis’ cruelty to children is enough. I agree with Newsom that stopping him now should be a national priority, just because of that.
MisterDancer
@PaulB: You’re doing a lot of “we don’t know.”
I’m doing a “let’s not wait.” I’m doing a “rack him now and kick the whole damn Fascist movement in the balls!”
I know I said I’d not talk about Trump. So bear with me: I remember the debates about “can Trump win?” It was not, despite what we all say now, clear Back Then to everyone. I mean, I recall Jon Stewart treating him like a joke, and a lot of others did — recall Graham’s cell phone ad?
Remember how many, not just the media, didn’t take Hillary Clinton’s warnings seriously?
A lot of us didn’t focus on the massive shift in the GOP. We didn’t click on how he was a real risk, not just in the moment, but in what he opened up.
And look at what we’re dealing with, now.
Again — everyone seems to slide over the “this looks too much like the train wreak of Reconstruction for me to be comfortable.” How, back then as well, people didn’t see the risk to pandering to those assholes until they forced the Federal Government to accept allowing Black folk to be kicked back to the curb.
So yeah, I’m setting off alarm bells, because these assholes depend on one “winner” to blueprint oppression. DeSantis is not Walker, and I’d not compare the two; Walker, for example, cared a lot more about what he’d considered “business,” esp. union busting.
And DeSantis isn’t the utterly thin-skilled “Noun, Verb, and 9/11” Giuliani (Thanks, Biden!) He sure as hell ain’t Jeb “Please clap” Bush, or Mittens.
And I already touched, in my post, on why DeSantis is different than a lot of his actual peers, like Abbot.
He’s a MFer with a clear strategy for wreaking the hell out of any marginalized folx he can, to claw as much power right now as possible — and on his way to more. None of the above have brutalized their state in the way DeSantis is doing today, to the breath that DeSantis has implemented.
Sure, he might flame out. But I’ll be damned if I look FOR A MOMENT at someone acting like DeSantis, and even think “well golly, maybe he’ll just not work out?”
Screw that. I’ve read too much history, grew up with too many victims of Jim Crow, to ever been conformable with what I’m seeing coming out of FL, today.
If we can, stop it now so we’re not dealing with worse, doing to road.
That’s all I’m saying.
Geminid
@Geminid: One interesting aspect of the Impact Research poll reported by Florida Politics was that Independents favored Crist over DeSantis 52-39%. That’s a number that can kill a Republican in a purple state. Republicans outnumbered Democrats in Arizona, but Biden and Kelly won in 2024 with a majority of non-affiliated voters.
Florida Politics (floridapolitics.com) seems like a good resource. When the FBI searched Mar-a-Loco, it’s editor was the one who broke the story. Rather than publishing it in his online magazine, once he got confirmation of his tip he tweeted it out.
Cameron
@MisterDancer: Agree 100%.
Another Scott
@PaulB: No time to check, but my recollection is that TFG got in the race in 2016 the day after JEB! announced, in part to punish him for not letting him have his way in FL.
Everything’s connected when it comes to TFG….
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
I caught part of his speech in PA on NPR or some place.
About every 4th word out of his mouth was “woke” He is basically a one-man crusade against “wokeness” which is apparently anything vaguely liberal that he disapproves up and labels “woke” because that turns it into a racist dog whistle.
I don’t think he can form two sentences together without using the term “woke”
Cameron
@Kent: It’s red meat for his audience. They have no idea what it means, just that it’s liberal and Democrat and bad. If Fox, Newsmax et al. started pimping “symbiotic” as the lieberalism du jour, he’d be babbling that in every speech, tweet and press release coming out of Tallahassee.
Kent
@Cameron: I’m just saying that DeSantis is just as much of a one-note speaker as “a noun and a verb and 9-11” Giuliani.
Cameron
@Kent: Absolutely.
MisterDancer
[Removing, I saw the response to Cameron and that’s fine.]
Feathers
@Brachiator: Oprah normalized antivaxxers by having a lot of them on her show and indulging their “vaccines and toxins” caused my kid’s autism bullshit. Antivaxxers were not really accepted in polite society before she gave them a huge and sympathetic platform on her show. So a reasonable percentage of the Covid dead can be laid at her feet, as well as the refusal to mask. She made public health about feelings. Not alone, but the esteem she is held in helped enormously.
What I really hold against her, however, is the “if someone isn’t bringing positive energy into your life, cut them out of it.” She probably didn’t mean remove anyone with depression, ADHD, or other mental illness from your social circle, but the enormous rise in “deaths of despair” from suicide and drug overdose came on the heels of this attitude. There’s this weird two-step of destigmatization of mental illness while saying that you shouldn’t have to put up with behavior from other people that is frequently a sign of mental illness. So it turns into a trap of people being “understanding” of someone’s mental struggles, while harshly judging their symptoms and demanding apologies for normal things depressed people do, with a promise it will never happen again.
So, yeah, fuck Oprah. And De Santis. Throw in Drs. Oz and Phil as well.
Feathers
@MisterDancer: Yes. Democrats have not had a national target the truly evils ones while they are still relatively local. Repubs do it to our potential rising stars all the time. We tend to leave it to the locals. Need to be better about that.
eddie blake
@Another Scott: i dunno. i’m a very large guy from a large family. it’s always been intuitive to me. especially when interacting with the world, which is full of usually much smaller people.
Betty Cracker
DeSantis read Viktor Orbán’s “How to Convert a Democracy into a Fascist Autocracy for Dummies” and has implemented the plan with frightening speed.
He has has coopted state agencies by putting kooks and cronies in charge and fired public officials who cross him to silence others. He has intimidated businesses by abridging their First Amendment rights and blatantly using government power to harm them financially. He has set mobs of kooks on the K-12 public education system, attempted to indoctrinate teachers with Christian nationalist propaganda and muzzled teachers. He is destroying the state’s flagship university by intimidating professors and putting his megadonors in charge of the board. He has removed democratically elected officials and replaced them with sycophants. He is funneling taxpayer dollars to out-of-state conservative law firms to defend his unconstitutional laws. He inspires terrorist mobs to harass and threaten the LGBTQ community, and he and his comms team routinely use anti-Semitic dog-whistles.
It’s no coincidence that DeSantis is supporting fellow Christian nationalists like Mastriano in PA and Masters in AZ. If he and his fascist fellow travelers get their hands on federal power, they will do to America what DeSantis has already done to Florida. So I agree, he must be stopped. We need to make DeSantis a one-term governor and a zero-term president.
Mike in NC
Appreciate the comments regarding football team owners. We don’t follow the game but know neighbors who swore it off because they objected to players taking a knee to protest police brutality. The horror!
eddie blake
@cain: batman is a criminal. he’s always been a criminal. he says as much in miller’s sequel, the dark knight strikes again.
Sister Golden Bear
@MisterDancer:
Word.
Hope is not a strategy, especially for those us already under attack.
kalakal
@MisterDancer: well put
Pappenheimer
@Amir Khalid:
I prefer the Scottish “Hamster Heedit Bampot”, myself, but I don’t think HHB will take off.
Jinchi
True, but latitude isn’t the key difference, ocean currents are.
The waters off Plymouth, Ma. ( at about 42N) are typically around 68F in summer.
That’s 10 degrees warmer than Monterey, Ca (at 37N) and roughly tied with San Diego (at 30 N).
California waters are frigid even for a kid from New England.
kalakal
@Matt McIrvin: Apparently FLs becoming less popular with elderly retirees, nothing to do with ideology, it’s simply becoming too expensive. Property used to be relatively cheap but has exploded and insurance is rocketing
Dan B
@MisterDancer: Ha ingredient spent a year in Jim Crow Arkansas in 1960 I feel horrible echoes in Death Santa and much of the current GOP. The open embrace of the KKK was revolting. The fear in the eyes of the black residents when they were caught with white people was another awful aspect. The little town of 7,000 has not prospered since then. The downtown that never had a black person on the sidewalk looks nearly abandoned in Street View. Racism hurts everyone but it leaves black people with trauma.
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
Here’s a good article on what Balzac did & did not say, with some history of the uses, simplifications, etc. The ghost of Honoré de Balzac was not available for commentary on those or clarification as to what he meant when he said that.
Since we can’t seem to find anyone else who actually said that, I want to say “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime” and I insist that every copy of The Godfather be edited to attribute the quote to me.
kalakal
@Ruckus: Couldn’t agree more. I never thought we lived in a completely sane world but the last few years are getting me to the view that a lot of people are utterly batshit. TFG, Brexit, anti mask/antivax have radically changed my ( already jaundiced) view of much of humanity.
Dan B
@Dan B: I need to review posts for incomprehensible autocorrect edits. What did I type that got turned into “Ha ingredient”? It was probably: I agree.
buggrit
@Dan B: Bet you a cookie it was “Having.”
Ruckus
@SteveinPHX:
When I was a kid in SoCal we would go to the beach quite a bit. It must be colder now because I used to swim in it all the time and it was fine.