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Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

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Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: To the Moon!

Monday Morning Open Thread: To the Moon!

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Of course, Artemis has its critics:

And somewhat beyond…

… Per a press release sent to The Root, her ashes will be included aboard the upcoming Celestis’ Historic Deep Space Mission. Accompanying her on ULA’s rocket (named Vulcan) will be Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, his wife and “First Lady of Star Trek” Majel Barrett Roddenberry, beloved Star Trek actor James “Scotty” Doohan, and VFX maestro and Hollywood icon Douglas Trumbull, and others—making for a historic Star Trek Reunion flight.

Additionally, fans from all over the world will be able to participate in this mission in various ways. They can celebrate Nichols and her life as well as take part in this mission with her by sending their name and tributes to her on the Celestis web site. This will serve as the worldwide public memorial page for the late actress. Those who choose to participate will have their names and messages digitized and launched with her on her journey. They can also send in drawings, writings, music scores, photos, scripts, and poems (in the form of what is known as a Celestis MindFile).

Reader Interactions

150Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Too cool.  I thought I heard the launch might be delayed due to weather.

    ETA CNN

    The weather is looking good for launch. For the beginning of the Monday launch period, the chances of favorable weather have gone up to 80%, according to the 6:45am ET Sunday US Space Force forecast. However, closer to the end of the launch period the chances decrease to 60% as the chance for scattered showers and storms increases

  2. 2.

    Matt McIrvin

    Artemis feels like a weird technological dead end to me, not anything that would lead to a coherent program of exploration. But if they get some good science out of it that would be cool, even if there are less expensive ways to do it.

    I also do like the symbolic opportunity to get some people on the Moon who aren’t white men, which will surely happen if the program succeeds.

  3. 3.

    JeanneT

    I’m looking forward to watching the video of the launch with my grandkid.   At 3 years old he loves the countdown and the flames and smoke from lift off best, but he’s also been absorbing information about building rockets and shuttles and what astronauts wear.  By the time the crewed mission takes place in 2025 he’ll be able to explain it all to me, I’m sure!

  8. 8.

    gene108

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The SLS is pretty backwards technology wise, but NASA gets limited by what Congress can order it to do it, and reusing old technology is something Congress pushed on NASA for this system.

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon.

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    There’s cloud cover here now, but hopefully by 8:30 it will be clear enough to see the launch if I go out on the dock and look ESE. Kennedy Space Center is 115 miles away.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation prison for Trump and his cronies built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon

  13. 13.

    PAM Dirac

    Seems like they had some weather issues last night along with some liquid hydrogen issues, which were resolved, but now there is a problem getting one of the engines to the correct temperature. Pretty much a certainty that it won’t go at 8:33, but they are still working to launch before the window closes at about 10:30.

  16. 16.

    mrmoshpotato

    Replying to John Fetterman:

    Not even Zoidberg would promote homeopathy or energy medicine or useless diet pills or talking to the dead or detoxes or hydroxychloroquine or iridology or astrology or conversion therapy or https://t.co/3j6oa2FAJB— Phil Plait (@BadAstronomer) August 27, 2022

  22. 22.

    JeanneT

    @oatler:  Yeah, I know!  But the relatively crude launch vehicle for the crewed mission will still be inspiring for the grandkid.

  24. 24.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:  Ah, thanks.  I can keep up with most of the cast of characters, but not with all the nicknames, acronyms, etc.

    Maybe it should have been bigger, but this isn’t just half a loaf, it’s more like 3/4, and for many low-income college grads, it’s the whole loaf.  I’m all for calling this a win, and moving on to figuring out how to make college more affordable in general.

  25. 25.

    lowtechcyclist

    @PAM Dirac:

    Pretty much a certainty that it won’t go at 8:33, but they are still working to launch before the window closes at about 10:30.

    Yeah, liftoff will probably be right in the middle of my 9am meeting.  And it’s one where I need to be paying attention most of the time.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Agree.  Joe wasn’t wrong.  But having a fake discussion as if Biden had announced “amd this is the end of the line on reform” is off-putting.

    ETA Joe’s complaint wasn’t about the size, but that it didn’t reform the system going forward.

  28. 28.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: I’m all for reforming the system going forward, but even Joe should be able to see that that’s a genuinely challenging problem that’s well beyond the scope of an executive order.

  29. 29.

    Amir Khalid

    Given the budget constraints in NASA, is a moonbase financially doable in the first place? It seems hair-raisingly expensive and complex, and would surely need to be a long-term multinational project like the International Space Station.

  30. 30.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Fun fact: Ralph Kramden was the first to propose sending women to the moon

  32. 32.

    jonas

    @Baud: ​
     

    according to the 6:45am ET Sunday US Space Force forecast

    Wait, “Space Force” is actually still a thing? I thought they just had a couple of Air Force guys don stupid costumes to placate Trump during a signing ceremony or something then went back to their real jobs.

  33. 33.

    Jesse

    @jonas: it’s a real thing. It’s been brewing for many years. It’s just that during the Trump tenure, all threads finally came together. Trump didn’t order it into existence.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    @jonas:

    Wait, “Space Force” is actually still a thing? I thought they just had a couple of Air Force guys don stupid costumes to placate Trump during a signing ceremony or something then went back to their real jobs. 

    Same here.  Also, when the dumb thing was created, a bunch of people said “Wait.  Part of the Air Force already does this.”

    Manbaby’s gotta have his “legacy.” But Space Force! ain’t it.

  38. 38.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Amir Khalid: The only bits of this that are planned in any detail are the program through the initial landings and the Lunar Gateway, which is a space station in lunar orbit that’s supposed to serve as some kind of exploration base. Everything gets increasingly vague from there on and I am increasingly skeptical.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    There’s a reddit thread about skyrocketing insurance in FL.  One commenter said flooding was going to get worse next decade because of a moon related reason I hadn’t heard of before.

    The moons orbit has an 18.6 year cycle that either suppresses or amplifies tides on Earth. It’s a result of lunar precession; during the high tide phase or “minor lunar standstill” the gravitational forces are more aligned with the Earth.

     

    We’re currently in the high phase. In the late 2020’s we’ll enter the low phase so things will look fine for a while but in the mid 2030’s the next cycle will start, which when coupled with higher sea level means more frequent severe flooding all along the coast.

  40. 40.

    Matt McIrvin

    @jonas: They really did re-designate the part of the Air Force that handles space operations as a separate uniformed service, and there are now Space Force bases and such. It seems like a lot of pointless activity but they’re not going back on it. They call the members “Guardians” which just makes me think they’re either hanging around with a talking raccoon or that they’re planning to invade Savathun’s Throne World and prepare for the coming of the Pyramid Fleet.

  42. 42.

    Geminid

    @jonas: The Space Force  was established by act of Congress, so it’s here to stay. There is even a Space Force March, although I think they have to borrow bands from the other services when they want to play it.

    There is also a White House space council. Vice President Harris chairs it. She and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff are at the launch site this morning, and Ms. Harris is scheduled to deliver remarks at noon.

  45. 45.

    Jesse

    @mrmoshpotato: I think it goes back a couple of decades. FWIW it’s still very small; not even remotely close to, say, the size of the army. Maybe several hundred people total, I think. And I think there’s some sharing with the Air Force; could be that many aren’t even 100% full-time Space Force. But that will probably gradually change as it grows.

    theres often some overlap between branches of the military and their capabilities. E.g. if I told you what the SEALs do, you’d probably guess it’s the Army, but it’s Navy. The Army also as plenty of planes, not just the Air Force. And so on. Gets confusing. IMHO having a Space Force might even add some clarity to the situation.

    (When will there be a Moon Force split off from Space Force?)

  49. 49.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @lowtechcyclist: i like to call it Morning Ho.  I keep on hearing about Biden buying the votes of younger voters via the student loan payoff. Anybody know what is meant by younger voters? The 4 people i know who are having issues with paying off their student loans are in their early to mid 30s. And they got the loans before the Obama  reforms on the for profit schools kicked in.

  53. 53.

    PAM Dirac

    Launch is scrubbed. Next try is is Sept 2 I think.

     

    ETA: Yes the next available window is Sept 2 at 12:48. Remains to be seen whether the problem will be fixed by then.

  54. 54.

    jonas

    Uh oh. Looks like Artemis launch was scrubbed for today due to a technical problem (“engine bleed”).

  56. 56.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    So do people enlist directly in Space Force? Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

    Good question!  I’ve got another, for anyone who can answer it: as a branch of the armed forces, what duties does the Space Force have?

    I assume it would only be responsible for military activities taking place in space, and that stuff happening in the atmosphere would still be the USAF’s territory.  So: military satellites? ICBMs?  Doesn’t seem like enough to organize a new branch of the military around.

  57. 57.

    jonas

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
     

    Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

    “Hey Fred, what are you doing here? Didn’t we meet at that disciplinary hearing back in March?”

  59. 59.

    Ken

    Two related XKCDs here and here. I’m happy that the second one is turning out wrong, and I’ll bet cartoonist Randall Munroe is as well!

  61. 61.

    mrmoshpotato

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’ve got another, for anyone who can answer it: as a branch of the armed forces, what duties does the Space Force have? 

    Defending us again Gidney, Cloyd, E.T., Marvin the Martian, and the Man in the Moon?

  62. 62.

    jonas

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
      At the time iirc the argument was something like what if the Chinese or Russians start weaponizing their satellites or something we need to have a response capability. But yeah, why this couldn’t continue to be the AF’s balliwick, I’m not sure.

  63. 63.

    Geminid

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: If Ms. Peltola wins out she will fill the remaining term of the late Rep. Don Young. There was an open primary held at the same time for the upcoming Congressional seat. The top four finishers, including Peltola, Begich and Palin, advance to a ranked choice election in November. If Peltola wins the special election she will increase Speaker Pelosi’s narrow margin between now and the new Congress. Perhaps she could team up with Alaska’s two Republican senators to bring home some more bacon to Alaskans.

    Or smoked salmon, since Peltola is “pro-fish.” The federal government has a very extensive impact on Alaska, and its citizens really prize the goods its representatives in Washington bring home.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Anybody know what is meant by younger voters? The 4 people i know who are having issues with paying off their student loans are in their early to mid 30s.

    And of course Marco Rubio still had $100K in student loans when he was running for Senate in 2012, when he was already past 40.

    Then suddenly his writing potential was realized.  Who knew?

  65. 65.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: It’s interesting that this is so close to but not the same as the saros cycle, which governs the timing of eclipses. (The saros is about the relative positions of the Sun, Moon and Earth seen from “above”, but this cycle is about the Moon’s motion above and below the plane of the Earth’s orbit. I imagine the slight difference in their length causes funky interference effects of some sort.)

  67. 67.

    Mai Naem mobile

    Just anecdata here. We have Grand Canyon Christian University here. I’ve talked to a couple of first generation hispanic  prospective college students and GCU does a really good marketing job. It’s not a bad school or a scam school but its more expensive than ASU or going to community college and then transferring to ASU. They seem to emphasize the Christian part ofcourse and I believe  students’ foreign born parents think ‘private’ means better than ‘public’ because that’s the way it is in their native countries.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    Anti-abortion groups lobby for and get more public funding for their fake clinics where women are only given low quality “services” (a sonogram and a diaper bag with some coupons) if they agree to religious and political indoctrination:

    The Legislature passed the “More Options for Maternal Support” (MOMS) program into law earlier this year, appropriating $500,000 toward funding nonprofit organizations that encourage alternatives to abortion. These organizations, often called pregnancy centers, provide services such as pregnancy and adoption counseling for expecting and new parents.Program funds have not been distributed yet. Alex Carfrae, a public information officer with the Iowa Department of Health and Human Services, said the goal was to have services in place before the start of the next fiscal year. The next fiscal year starts July 1, 2023The department is working to hire a program manager to develop a request for proposals, which will seek a program administrator to build out a “statewide network of pregnancy support providers,” Carfrae said.

    Texas is spending tens of millions on it. Nothing additional for real, high quality medical care, but millions diverted to Right wing religious/political groups for unregulated, low quality “counseling” where women must learn their proper place in society in exchange for a package of diapers and a car seat.

    It’s a Right wing religious employment program and it’s all public funds- let the grift begin!

    Iowa’s program was modeled after the one in Texas, which also faced criticism after reports of “significant financial irregularities” on the part of one of the network’s subcontractors.

  70. 70.

    Matt McIrvin

    @lowtechcyclist: Basically the Space Force does the same stuff the Air Force Space Command used to do. So they operate the spysat and GPS fleets, military comsats, the X-37B spaceplane, stuff like that (not the ICBMs). And, no, it doesn’t seem like enough to me either.

  71. 71.

    Ken

    @Jesse: FWIW it’s still very small; not even remotely close to, say, the size of the army. Maybe several hundred people total, I think.

    Yes, not remotely close to the size of the army 😄 unless you meant Monaco’s.

    There is something of a battle of science-fiction tropes here, between the ones that base their setup on naval vessels, and those that go all libertarian with plucky individuals setting out in their personal rockets.  Given the cost of fuel and the sheer tonnage of supplies humans need — a nasty combo of the rocket equation and the wagon equation — I’m going to guess that the navy model wins.

    Besides, as Charles Stross put it in one of his science-fiction novels, a space habitat is going to crush any libertarian impulses pretty damn quick. There is no such thing as personal freedom in a place where opening a door wrong can kill everyone.

  72. 72.

    Layer8Problem

    @Matt McIrvin:  Spare no expense or geometric increase in bureaucracy; any excuse for a Cool Uniform.  Although I don’t think the uniforms are all that cool.

  73. 73.

    Ken

    @mrmoshpotato: Go Go Space Force Rangers!

    It’s gonna delay things another couple decades if the spaceships also have to transform and combine into a giant robot.

  74. 74.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Biden made a mistake putting Rick Moranis in charge of Space Force

  76. 76.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ken: Among right-wing space fans, the battling attitudes seem to be “the government can’t do anything right, space belongs to plucky entrepreneurs and garage tinkerers” and “actually space travel is one of the few legitimate functions of Big Government–eliminate welfare programs so we can have cities on Mars”. The latter tend to be the people who looked into what it actually takes to go into space, so it’s the one kind of large social endeavor where they have some degree of expertise.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    Hopefully we will see the launch on Friday.

    OT  I looked through some of yesterday’s blogs, and congratulations to Subaru Diane for the generous match for the world Central Kitchen.

    btw Amazon sells some of his products with the proceeds going to the WCK.   Keep that in mind when you are shopping for a gift.

  78. 78.

    dmsilev

    SLS launched scrubbed for today; problem with one of the engines. If it’s something easily fixed, the next launch window is September 2. If the thing has to be rolled back off the pad to do more serious work, we’re probably looking at weeks or maybe a month or two of delay.

    Given the …fraught history of the program, not at all surprising.

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    @dmsilev:

    SLS launched scrubbed for today; problem with one of the engines.

    Did they try turning it off, then on again?

    Or is it on, then off again? 🤔

  83. 83.

    Ken

    @Layer8Problem: Space Force pulls them in with the naked co-ed showers.

    (Also something that won’t be available in space — showers, I mean. Weight of water, danger of drops getting into the electronics, danger of drowning in a surface-tension mishap….)

  85. 85.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Layer8Problem: “And why don’t today’s young people appreciate Robert Heinlein? I don’t understand it! I loved those books so much when I read them in 1964!”

  87. 87.

    catclub

    @Kay: ​
     

    of “significant financial irregularities”

    it is all about the grift. even moreso when the GOP legislature is trying to direct state education funding to religious private schools. and the SC wants more of that.

  90. 90.

    dmsilev

    @mrmoshpotato: Heh. I don’t think “try unplugging and plugging it back in” is part of the NASA troubleshooting routine.

    More seriously, the problem was that the engines have to be cooled to very low temperatures as part of the startup process (because the fuel is liquid hydrogen and oxygen, both very cryogenic liquids) and one of the four engines wasn’t cooling properly.

  91. 91.

    artem1s

    @gene108:

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon.

    even if the eventual goal is Mars (with interim trips to the asteroid belt objects) it’s been 50 years since NASA sent a crewed mission outside of earth’s orbit. They will have a decade (or more) of smaller step missions with and without crew before they can even think about landing humans anywhere again. The budget for Artemis was established years ago (under W I think). It’s pretty much been spent so no use in scrubbing it now. Once this is over NASA can turn their attention and budget back to reworking our human space exploration – unless some future POTUS decides to hamstring their budget with some glorified ‘man in a can’ mission again.

    Bigger waste of energy, attention and $ is TFG’s Starship Troopers boondoggle. Get that scrubbed and the space exploration budget out of the defense department and back into NASA. Time to put it in the scrapheap with Star Wars.

  92. 92.

    eversor

    @catclub:

    This is not really about grift though.   This is firmly that the GOP wants prayer in schools and Christian education, full stop.   The bible readers would have no problem with public education if there were classes on Christianity and forced prayer.  Their horror is that the younger generations have realized Christianity is not only bullshit, it’s extremely toxic and root of most of our issues.

    Sure the people at the top may want to grift it, but the reason it’s massively popular is the bases wants Jesus.  This is also the reasons CHUDS are completely OK with detonating their social security, unemployment, and everything else.   Send those funds to the church.  So that anybody who needs any help ever has to bow before Jesus and live acording to traditional biblical and Christian values of patriarchy, gender roles, and sexuality.

  93. 93.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Then Republicans will say “see, we do allocate money to help women and children, what are you complaining about?”. They’ll probably rob money from the health services that really do help people. It’s disgusting.

  94. 94.

    artem1s

    @Layer8Problem: ​
     

    @Matt McIrvin: Or they saw Starship Troopers and said “That! That’s where I want to live!”

    Or worse, saw First Contact and thought, “I’m gonna change my name to Zefram Cochran, steal a nuke, invent warp drive and be a ga-zillionaire”.

  95. 95.

    artem1s

    @eversor: ​
     
    This is not really about grift though. yes it is. White Hat Management alone stole 1 billion of taxpayers money from Summit County in Ohio by opening up crappy charter schools. That was the early days of voucher programs. They are robbing the states blind and putting the dollars in their own pockets. Keeping the rubes dumb and placid is a by product of the grift, not the main goal.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    @artem1s: The third Artemis mission is supposed to be the crewed landing. But it’s this weird Frankenstein mission, like they took an old Wernher von Braun scheme and grafted it onto the remains of the old Constellation program: Orion launched by SLS, actual landing done with a modified SpaceX Starship that gets launched separately with a SpaceX rocket and refueled with multiple launches so this huge thing can go to the Moon, land and take off. Astronauts come home in the Orion. The Starship is just a lunar lander so it doesn’t have to do atmospheric entry, which is the most technologically risky part of the program.

    I have to admit it’s ambitious. The astronauts get a really luxurious huge spacecraft to land in.

  99. 99.

    MisterDancer

    Accompanying [Nichols] on ULA’s rocket (named Vulcan) will be Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, his wife and “First Lady of Star Trek” Majel Barrett Roddenberry[…]

    That’s damn interesting. Forgive me diving into now-ancient behind the scenes stuff. I promise an interesting payoff!

    So Nichols’ autobiography made clear she — like Majel — had also been a lover with Gene (yes, while Gene was still married to his first wife. It’s a whole-assed mess.) No exact idea when, save it was before Gene hired her for Trek.

    That said, from all accounts, Nichelle and Majel were friends. In fact…they actually have the First Interracial Kiss on Trek (and thus, arguably, Television!)

    It’s a “blink and you miss it” background moment, but in the episode “What Are Little Girls Made Of?,” they share a brief smooch as Majel’s character is leaving the bridge of the Enterprise. I think “we” miss it because the later kiss in “Plato’s Stepchildren” was deliberate and the focus — plus two women kissing was just seen as friendly, not romantic…

    …but so was that kiss Nancy Sinatra gave Sammy Davis Jr. on TV, and that still caused a MFing ruckus, from what I hear.

    Anyway. So now you all know that the “first” Interracial kiss, was also same-gender!

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ken: I remember that causing a lot of confusion when the project was first announced ages ago, because of course a lot of space fans are fascinated by the original Orion proposal.

  101. 101.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @gene108: ​

    From what I’ve read, one of the biggest engineering challenges to a moon base is radiation, from cosmic rays and solar storms. The stuff our atmosphere and magnetic field protect us from. Apollo just got lucky that there were never any moon walks during a solar storm event, though I’ve read that at least one mission just missed a storm.

    If there’s ever human habitation on the Moon (and this may go for Mars as well), it’s not going to be a glass dome on the surface. It will probably need to be underground.

  103. 103.

    germy shoemangler

    @Matt McIrvin:  I also do like the symbolic opportunity to get some people on the Moon who aren’t white men, which will surely happen if the program succeeds.

    I’m so old I remember when white astronauts turned the moon’s surface into a golf course

  104. 104.

    Ken

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: That fits well with the movie tropes, where we get a (matte painting of) an elaborate domed city on the surface of Mars, after which the rest of the movie looks like it was mostly filmed in a windowless office building, except they got use of a factory for a couple of fight/chase scenes.

  105. 105.

    Wapiti

    @Ken: And any Libertarian who refused the Covid vaccine due to personal liberty would not be an acceptable candidate for a manned space mission.

  106. 106.

    dnfree

    @lowtechcyclist: every time I see MJ here I have to run through a mental list.  Michael Jordan?  Seems unlikely.  Michael Jackson?  Deceased.  It still takes me a while to get to Morning Joe.

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Definitely goes for Mars as well. Mars lacks a global magnetic field like Earth’s to cut down the incoming charged particles. Nor does it have a significant ozone layer to protect from UV light, but that’s easier to deal with.

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    MJ complaining that the student loan forgiveness doesn’t go far enough.

    Joseph of the Morning himself? Or some of his sidekicks?

  115. 115.

    The Moar You Know

    This rocket may make it into orbit – someday – but it will never go any further.

    The federal contracting model has ensured that this thing will be a failure out the gate.  And will cost ten times as much as it should have.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    A report by the Kyiv Post from two hours ago is headlined, “Ukrainian counteroffensive underway in Kherson region.”

    The article said that a Ukrainian battle group claims it has pierced Russian front lines defending the southern port of Kherson and that instead of counter attacking, Russian paratroopers were “fleeing the battle field.”

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Speaking of Beltway Conventional Wisdom, yesterday launched another round of “trump happened because you lies were mean to Our Willard, The Virtuous!” on twitter, to the point where Romney is trending this morning.

    His flirtations with birtherism (etc) are being thoroughly rehashed, but has anyone else noticed that Romney has been very quiet about trump’s violations of the Espionage Act? Or is this just me not paying attention to CNN again?

  119. 119.

    Kent

    I have to admit that I had to look up “Artemis” to find out what the name meant. Paraphrased from Wikipedia:

    ARTEMIS:  Greek goddess of the hunt, the wilderness, wild animals, nature, vegetation, childbirth, care of children, and chastity.  In Greek tradition, Artemis is the daughter of the sky god and king of gods Zeus and Leto, and the twin sister of Apollo. In most accounts, the twins are the products of an extramarital liaison. For this, Zeus’ wife Hera forbade Leto from giving birth anywhere on land. Only the island of Delos gave refuge to Leto, allowing her to give birth to her children.

    So illegitimate twin sister of Apollo.  I never knew that.

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    Just waking up here in Southern California.

    Sorry to see that the Moon rocket launch has been delayed.

    So illegitimate twin sister of Apollo.

    And of course Apollo and Artemis are both lunar missions.

  121. 121.

    Subsole

    @HinTN:

    Honestly? You probably want something very bright. White or silver. You’re likely going to be soaking a lot of sun, even on the moon. So you want to reflect as much as you can to keep your temperature regulated.

    Also, if your tether snaps and you do a little one-way EVA, you very, very badly want to be visible. And, y’know, carrying a radio beacon that could fry pigeons. Because locking-on to a radio pulse is a LOT easier than scanning for a person over a three AU arc…

  122. 122.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Does the Morning Joe crew give a desired number for student loan forgiveness, say $50,000? Or no  income limit for recipients?

    Or are they just arguing for an abstract “more?” That’s easier to do.

  124. 124.

    Subsole

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Forget Mars. The real place to be is Venus. If I recall correctly, room air is a lift gas in Venusian atmosphere. So you could build MASSIVE balloons, coat them in some sort of ceramic glaze to keep the acid off, and hey voila, Lando’s your uncle.

    Also, I believe the vagaries of orbital mechanics mean it is actually easier to sling cargo inward to Venus, then sling it outward, say to the Belt or Mars, rather than just going A to B.

     

    So it kind of figures that Elon’s ass wants Mars. I wish him luck.

    Gonna be a trip watching his Conditionally-Manumitted Life-Contract Guest-Workers grow crops in soil that’s like 50% perchlorate, and by all accounts sterile.

  125. 125.

    Mike in NC

    The best show on TV is “For All Mankind” on Apple. An alternate history of the space program where the USSR made the first landing on the moon, and where NASA, the Soviets, and a private American company are racing to be the first to land on Mars. Outstanding cast and special effects. One character is a female Republican who defeated Bill Clinton to be president. She has a large painting of Nixon above the Oval Office fireplace, which probably implies that he wasn’t a rotten scumbag who resigned in disgrace. Hey, it’s science fiction after all.

  126. 126.

    Miss Bianca

    Is anyone besides me just chuffed that the successor to the Apollo program is named after his sister Artemis?

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    They were arguing for reform of the system going forward, especially lowering tuition rates.

    credit where due, that’s an important part of the discussion that’s been overshadowed by the desire for big bold executive action for its own sake

    ETA: another issue where on-line progressives ought to spend more time focusing on state governments

  130. 130.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kent: “Artemis” makes more sense than “Apollo” as a name for a Moon program, since she has Moon associations.

  131. 131.

    Subsole

    @Ken: And Ken got there first. Shucks.

     

    Farmwise, we may also want to factor in the utter lack of sunlight and surface temperatures that pretty much guarantee water is gonna be a solid unless you put a fire under it. (Good luck starting one in all that CO2.)

     

    As Solomon Short once said, “How do the fool and his money get together in the first place?”

  132. 132.

    raven

    @Kent: They named my girl after her at the vet that saved her when she had and arrow shot through her neck (among other things).

  133. 133.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Subsole: Missions to Venus and Mercury tend to do a lot of gravity assists past Earth and Venus to bleed off excess energy (since they start out with too much, Earth being further up the Sun’s well). Takes years, but I guess you can get a lot of the required delta-v that way. Also Venus has a really thick atmosphere for aerobraking, unlike Mars.

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    @Miss Bianca:

    Is anyone besides me just chuffed that the successor to the Apollo program is named after his sister Artemis?

    I noted in a post above that it is both cool and logical.  Two moon missions named for twin gods.

    And I think Artemis is meant to put the first woman astronaut on the Moon.

  137. 137.

    Ken

    @Brachiator: @Miss Bianca: @Matt McIrvin: Clearly the lunar colony is a cover story, and the Artemis mission is to the Sun.

    UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT information, et cetera.

    As for the symbolism, most of the Artemis stories are your basic “boy sees goddess, goddess flies into rage, boy is killed horribly”, so let’s hope the missions don’t follow the pattern.

  138. 138.

    UncleEbeneezer

    John McWhorter rejects the notion: when Black folk get lower standardized test scores, either the tests are racist or something is wrong w/ Black folk. Calls this “an artificially narrowed realm of choices.” Then he explains what’s wrong w/ Black folk. 1/

    To make his case, McWhorter cites a 1983 book that ends up claiming a Black community is “almost book free.” He quotes a Black respondent who shares his racist belief that: “We don’t talk to our chil’rn like [White] folks do. We don’t ask ’em ’bout colors, names ’n things.” 2/

    “That quote does get at something in a general sense,” McWhorter says. Then he backtracks, denying what was said. “Her point wasn’t that Black culture, or working-class culture, is unenlightened or that Black people or working-class white people are in any sense inarticulate.” 3/

    “Neither she then, nor I now, say there is some flaw in Black or working-class white culture,” McWhorter writes after describing flaws in Black or working-class culture that in his view explains why Black people are getting lower standardized test scores. 4/

    This is a usual McWhorter’s op-ed on race. He challenges antiracism. He denies there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. He claims there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. He denies he said there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. 5/

    The same McWhorter merry-go-round of denial. He offers readers an escape from the discomfort of antiracism for the pleasure of demeaning Black folk as they deny they are demeaning Black folk. McWhorter has reduced himself to a popular amusement ride. He’s an embarrassment. 6/6

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: They mention the potential usefulness for in situ fuel production–I’m pretty sure that where I first heard the word “perchlorate” was that ammonium perchlorate is the oxidizer used by Space Shuttle (and SLS) solid rocket boosters. (The fuel is powdered aluminum, and it’s all mixed together in a rubbery binder.)

    But that’s not nice stuff to be around.

  145. 145.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @zhena gogolia: They know their audience.  There’s always been a huge market for Black voices who are willing to tell White People the comfortable lies that they want to hear to justify their racist beliefs.  The more respectable and seemingly academic, the better.  McWhorter does it better than just about anyone, as Kendi describes, walking just up to the line of “the problem is Black people” but never openly admitting it.

  147. 147.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  A habitation on Mars would also have to cycle the crew out periodically.  Why we will never colonize Mars or anywhere but Earth.  Living permanently in 1/6 Earth gravity is not good for the human body.  Less than Earth gravity has effects on your eyeballs, your bones and your heart and lungs among other body systems.  I don’t know exactly what would happen to someone who returned to earth after spending a couple years in 1/6 gravity but it might possible cause permanent changes to their muscles, bones, heart and lungs that made return to 1G very difficult.  I don’t even want to thing about what effects 1/6 gravity would have on trying to carry a pregnancy to term…

  150. 150.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

     ARTEMIS: Greek goddess of the hunt,

    Disappointed. I thought it was named after Secret Service agent Artemis Gordon from the old show, “The Wild Wild West” (photo)

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