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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: To the Moon!

Monday Morning Open Thread: To the Moon!

by Anne Laurie|  August 29, 20226:52 am| 150 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Readership Capture, Space

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50 years after the last Apollo mission, NASA is getting ready to go back.

NASA’s most powerful rocket yet is set to blast off on its debut test flight, kicking off the US space agency’s Artemis mission to take humans back to the moon https://t.co/tByectbAIX pic.twitter.com/1vqfU5OBvf

— Al Jazeera English (@AJEnglish) August 29, 2022

LIVE NOW: The #Artemis era of exploration begins today with @NASAArtemis I, the first flight test of the rocket and spacecraft that will take humanity to the Moon. The launch window opens at 8:33am ET (12:33 UTC). https://t.co/mFyoeRMC6q

— NASA (@NASA) August 29, 2022


????#Artemis 1: Everything you need to know about the launch of NASA’s first Moon mission in 50 years pic.twitter.com/oAtpnGBOfm

— Euronews Next (@euronewsnext) August 29, 2022

Of course, Artemis has its critics:

After years of cost overruns and delays, damning reports by government watchdogs and criticisms from space enthusiasts and even parts of NASA’s own leadership, NASA’s SLS moon rocket is ready to fly. https://t.co/yhoeOj782W

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) August 28, 2022

And somewhat beyond…

So fitting! "Second star on the right, straight on til morning"https://t.co/uxDcVWb59S

— Portia "Virgo Season” ?? McGonagal (@PortiaMcGonagal) August 27, 2022

… Per a press release sent to The Root, her ashes will be included aboard the upcoming Celestis’ Historic Deep Space Mission. Accompanying her on ULA’s rocket (named Vulcan) will be Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, his wife and “First Lady of Star Trek” Majel Barrett Roddenberry, beloved Star Trek actor James “Scotty” Doohan, and VFX maestro and Hollywood icon Douglas Trumbull, and others—making for a historic Star Trek Reunion flight.

Additionally, fans from all over the world will be able to participate in this mission in various ways. They can celebrate Nichols and her life as well as take part in this mission with her by sending their name and tributes to her on the Celestis web site. This will serve as the worldwide public memorial page for the late actress. Those who choose to participate will have their names and messages digitized and launched with her on her journey. They can also send in drawings, writings, music scores, photos, scripts, and poems (in the form of what is known as a Celestis MindFile).

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Reader Interactions

150Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 6:54 am

    Too cool.  I thought I heard the launch might be delayed due to weather.

    ETA CNN

    The weather is looking good for launch. For the beginning of the Monday launch period, the chances of favorable weather have gone up to 80%, according to the 6:45am ET Sunday US Space Force forecast. However, closer to the end of the launch period the chances decrease to 60% as the chance for scattered showers and storms increases

  2. 2.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 7:03 am

    Artemis feels like a weird technological dead end to me, not anything that would lead to a coherent program of exploration. But if they get some good science out of it that would be cool, even if there are less expensive ways to do it.

    I also do like the symbolic opportunity to get some people on the Moon who aren’t white men, which will surely happen if the program succeeds.

  3. 3.

    JeanneT

    August 29, 2022 at 7:06 am

    I’m looking forward to watching the video of the launch with my grandkid.   At 3 years old he loves the countdown and the flames and smoke from lift off best, but he’s also been absorbing information about building rockets and shuttles and what astronauts wear.  By the time the crewed mission takes place in 2025 he’ll be able to explain it all to me, I’m sure!

  4. 4.

    oatler

    August 29, 2022 at 7:08 am

    @JeanneT:

    It’s spelled “crude”, ma’am.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    August 29, 2022 at 7:12 am

    Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊

  6. 6.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:12 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:14 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I thought this was the first step to a moon base and then Mars.

  8. 8.

    gene108

    August 29, 2022 at 7:14 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The SLS is pretty backwards technology wise, but NASA gets limited by what Congress can order it to do it, and reusing old technology is something Congress pushed on NASA for this system.

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:17 am

    @gene108:

    They added more ka-boom in place of new tech.

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    August 29, 2022 at 7:19 am

    There’s cloud cover here now, but hopefully by 8:30 it will be clear enough to see the launch if I go out on the dock and look ESE. Kennedy Space Center is 115 miles away.

  11. 11.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 7:21 am

    @Baud:

    I thought this was the first step to a moon base and then Mars. 

    The Nazis beat us to the moon base bit.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:34 am

    @gene108:

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation prison for Trump and his cronies built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon

  13. 13.

    PAM Dirac

    August 29, 2022 at 7:34 am

    Seems like they had some weather issues last night along with some liquid hydrogen issues, which were resolved, but now there is a problem getting one of the engines to the correct temperature. Pretty much a certainty that it won’t go at 8:33, but they are still working to launch before the window closes at about 10:30.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:37 am

    MJ complaining that the student loan forgiveness doesn’t go far enough.

  15. 15.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    August 29, 2022 at 7:43 am

    This should drive the moon truthers nuttier

  16. 16.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 7:43 am

    Replying to John Fetterman:

    Not even Zoidberg would promote homeopathy or energy medicine or useless diet pills or talking to the dead or detoxes or hydroxychloroquine or iridology or astrology or conversion therapy or https://t.co/3j6oa2FAJB— Phil Plait (@BadAstronomer) August 27, 2022

  17. 17.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:44 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

    I for one will be grateful for proof that the moon isn’t flat.

  18. 18.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 7:47 am

    @Baud: I demand a cheese sample.  My taste buds have a right to know.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:49 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Mmmm. Government moon cheese.

  20. 20.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 7:53 am

    @Baud: Who is MJ?

  21. 21.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 7:54 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Morning Joe.

  22. 22.

    JeanneT

    August 29, 2022 at 7:56 am

    @oatler:  Yeah, I know!  But the relatively crude launch vehicle for the crewed mission will still be inspiring for the grandkid.

  23. 23.

    germy shoemangler

    August 29, 2022 at 7:58 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Voting for Republicans is like letting Lauren Boebert perform brain surgery..

    — 𝐓𝐢𝐦🇺🇸#VOTE🗳️ ®™️ (@MstrKnowItAll) August 28, 2022

    Legitimately one of the funniest details of our reality that one of their biggest dummies (Ben Carson) literally is a brain surgeon https://t.co/LPjbxTRxNu

    — Prime Minister Dennis B. Hooper (@dennisbhooper) August 28, 2022

  24. 24.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 7:59 am

    @Baud:  Ah, thanks.  I can keep up with most of the cast of characters, but not with all the nicknames, acronyms, etc.

    Maybe it should have been bigger, but this isn’t just half a loaf, it’s more like 3/4, and for many low-income college grads, it’s the whole loaf.  I’m all for calling this a win, and moving on to figuring out how to make college more affordable in general.

  25. 25.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 8:01 am

    @PAM Dirac:

    Pretty much a certainty that it won’t go at 8:33, but they are still working to launch before the window closes at about 10:30.

    Yeah, liftoff will probably be right in the middle of my 9am meeting.  And it’s one where I need to be paying attention most of the time.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 8:02 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Agree.  Joe wasn’t wrong.  But having a fake discussion as if Biden had announced “amd this is the end of the line on reform” is off-putting.

    ETA Joe’s complaint wasn’t about the size, but that it didn’t reform the system going forward.

  27. 27.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    August 29, 2022 at 8:10 am

    Who’s on first?

    Moon base!

  28. 28.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 8:16 am

    @Baud: I’m all for reforming the system going forward, but even Joe should be able to see that that’s a genuinely challenging problem that’s well beyond the scope of an executive order.

  29. 29.

    Amir Khalid

    August 29, 2022 at 8:18 am

    Given the budget constraints in NASA, is a moonbase financially doable in the first place? It seems hair-raisingly expensive and complex, and would surely need to be a long-term multinational project like the International Space Station.

  30. 30.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    August 29, 2022 at 8:18 am

    Fun fact: Ralph Kramden was the first to propose sending women to the moon

  31. 31.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 8:19 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Right. But I don’t think I heard the word “Congress” once.

  32. 32.

    jonas

    August 29, 2022 at 8:20 am

    @Baud: ​
     

    according to the 6:45am ET Sunday US Space Force forecast

    Wait, “Space Force” is actually still a thing? I thought they just had a couple of Air Force guys don stupid costumes to placate Trump during a signing ceremony or something then went back to their real jobs.

  33. 33.

    Jesse

    August 29, 2022 at 8:23 am

    @jonas: it’s a real thing. It’s been brewing for many years. It’s just that during the Trump tenure, all threads finally came together. Trump didn’t order it into existence.

  34. 34.

    twbrandt (formerly tom)

    August 29, 2022 at 8:24 am

    Has anyone heard from Immanentize? (Perhaps that was covered in another thread and I missed it)

  35. 35.

    Booger

    August 29, 2022 at 8:24 am

    @jonas: Well yeah, but it was cancelled after two seasons.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:24 am

    @jonas:

    Wait, “Space Force” is actually still a thing? I thought they just had a couple of Air Force guys don stupid costumes to placate Trump during a signing ceremony or something then went back to their real jobs. 

    Same here.  Also, when the dumb thing was created, a bunch of people said “Wait.  Part of the Air Force already does this.”

    Manbaby’s gotta have his “legacy.” But Space Force! ain’t it.

  37. 37.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:26 am

    @Jesse: It was in the works for years?  Who started the stupid ball rolling – W?

  38. 38.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 8:27 am

    @Amir Khalid: The only bits of this that are planned in any detail are the program through the initial landings and the Lunar Gateway, which is a space station in lunar orbit that’s supposed to serve as some kind of exploration base. Everything gets increasingly vague from there on and I am increasingly skeptical.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 8:27 am

    There’s a reddit thread about skyrocketing insurance in FL.  One commenter said flooding was going to get worse next decade because of a moon related reason I hadn’t heard of before.

    The moons orbit has an 18.6 year cycle that either suppresses or amplifies tides on Earth. It’s a result of lunar precession; during the high tide phase or “minor lunar standstill” the gravitational forces are more aligned with the Earth.

     

    We’re currently in the high phase. In the late 2020’s we’ll enter the low phase so things will look fine for a while but in the mid 2030’s the next cycle will start, which when coupled with higher sea level means more frequent severe flooding all along the coast.

  40. 40.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 8:29 am

    @jonas: They really did re-designate the part of the Air Force that handles space operations as a separate uniformed service, and there are now Space Force bases and such. It seems like a lot of pointless activity but they’re not going back on it. They call the members “Guardians” which just makes me think they’re either hanging around with a talking raccoon or that they’re planning to invade Savathun’s Throne World and prepare for the coming of the Pyramid Fleet.

  41. 41.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 29, 2022 at 8:29 am

    Hopeful news from Alaska. Come on, Peltola!

     

    New Alaska count: Mary Peltola (D) expands lead over Sarah Palin (R) to 16,347 votes. Depending on how many ballots “exhaust,” Palin probably needs 68-70% of Begich second place votes to prevail. It’s going to be close. #AKAL pic.twitter.com/5NDTB6lo2U— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) August 27, 2022

  42. 42.

    Geminid

    August 29, 2022 at 8:29 am

    @jonas: The Space Force  was established by act of Congress, so it’s here to stay. There is even a Space Force March, although I think they have to borrow bands from the other services when they want to play it.

    There is also a White House space council. Vice President Harris chairs it. She and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff are at the launch site this morning, and Ms. Harris is scheduled to deliver remarks at noon.

  43. 43.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 29, 2022 at 8:30 am

    @Matt McIrvin: So do people enlist directly in Space Force? Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:31 am

    @Baud: Contact tidal expert Bill O’Reilly.

  45. 45.

    Jesse

    August 29, 2022 at 8:32 am

    @mrmoshpotato: I think it goes back a couple of decades. FWIW it’s still very small; not even remotely close to, say, the size of the army. Maybe several hundred people total, I think. And I think there’s some sharing with the Air Force; could be that many aren’t even 100% full-time Space Force. But that will probably gradually change as it grows.

    theres often some overlap between branches of the military and their capabilities. E.g. if I told you what the SEALs do, you’d probably guess it’s the Army, but it’s Navy. The Army also as plenty of planes, not just the Air Force. And so on. Gets confusing. IMHO having a Space Force might even add some clarity to the situation.

    (When will there be a Moon Force split off from Space Force?)

  46. 46.

    SteveinPHX

    August 29, 2022 at 8:32 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

     
    Alice was his designated astronaut.

  47. 47.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of. 

    Hahaha!

  48. 48.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m not even sure if they’ve figured that out yet.

  49. 49.

    Mai Naem mobile

    August 29, 2022 at 8:35 am

    @lowtechcyclist: i like to call it Morning Ho.  I keep on hearing about Biden buying the votes of younger voters via the student loan payoff. Anybody know what is meant by younger voters? The 4 people i know who are having issues with paying off their student loans are in their early to mid 30s. And they got the loans before the Obama  reforms on the for profit schools kicked in.

  50. 50.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:35 am

    Scrubbed!

  51. 51.

    RobertB

    August 29, 2022 at 8:36 am

    Bummer, they just scrubbed the launch for the day.

  52. 52.

    Amir Khalid

    August 29, 2022 at 8:36 am

    @Jesse:

    I am disappoint. I had always thought of it as Trump’s take on Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers.

  53. 53.

    PAM Dirac

    August 29, 2022 at 8:36 am

    Launch is scrubbed. Next try is is Sept 2 I think.

     

    ETA: Yes the next available window is Sept 2 at 12:48. Remains to be seen whether the problem will be fixed by then.

  54. 54.

    jonas

    August 29, 2022 at 8:36 am

    Uh oh. Looks like Artemis launch was scrubbed for today due to a technical problem (“engine bleed”).

  55. 55.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 8:38 am

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Anybody know what is meant by younger voters?

     
    People they need their base to hate.

  56. 56.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 8:38 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    So do people enlist directly in Space Force? Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

    Good question!  I’ve got another, for anyone who can answer it: as a branch of the armed forces, what duties does the Space Force have?

    I assume it would only be responsible for military activities taking place in space, and that stuff happening in the atmosphere would still be the USAF’s territory.  So: military satellites? ICBMs?  Doesn’t seem like enough to organize a new branch of the military around.

  57. 57.

    jonas

    August 29, 2022 at 8:39 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
     

    Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

    “Hey Fred, what are you doing here? Didn’t we meet at that disciplinary hearing back in March?”

  58. 58.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:39 am

    @Amir Khalid: Go Go Space Force Rangers!

  59. 59.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 8:39 am

    Two related XKCDs here and here. I’m happy that the second one is turning out wrong, and I’ll bet cartoonist Randall Munroe is as well!

  60. 60.

    Jesse

    August 29, 2022 at 8:40 am

    @lowtechcyclist: https://www.spaceforce.mil/About-Us/FAQs/

  61. 61.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 8:42 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’ve got another, for anyone who can answer it: as a branch of the armed forces, what duties does the Space Force have? 

    Defending us again Gidney, Cloyd, E.T., Marvin the Martian, and the Man in the Moon?

  62. 62.

    jonas

    August 29, 2022 at 8:42 am

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
      At the time iirc the argument was something like what if the Chinese or Russians start weaponizing their satellites or something we need to have a response capability. But yeah, why this couldn’t continue to be the AF’s balliwick, I’m not sure.

  63. 63.

    Geminid

    August 29, 2022 at 8:43 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: If Ms. Peltola wins out she will fill the remaining term of the late Rep. Don Young. There was an open primary held at the same time for the upcoming Congressional seat. The top four finishers, including Peltola, Begich and Palin, advance to a ranked choice election in November. If Peltola wins the special election she will increase Speaker Pelosi’s narrow margin between now and the new Congress. Perhaps she could team up with Alaska’s two Republican senators to bring home some more bacon to Alaskans.

    Or smoked salmon, since Peltola is “pro-fish.” The federal government has a very extensive impact on Alaska, and its citizens really prize the goods its representatives in Washington bring home.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 29, 2022 at 8:43 am

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Anybody know what is meant by younger voters? The 4 people i know who are having issues with paying off their student loans are in their early to mid 30s.

    And of course Marco Rubio still had $100K in student loans when he was running for Senate in 2012, when he was already past 40.

    Then suddenly his writing potential was realized.  Who knew?

  65. 65.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 8:45 am

    @Baud: It’s interesting that this is so close to but not the same as the saros cycle, which governs the timing of eclipses. (The saros is about the relative positions of the Sun, Moon and Earth seen from “above”, but this cycle is about the Moon’s motion above and below the plane of the Earth’s orbit. I imagine the slight difference in their length causes funky interference effects of some sort.)

  66. 66.

    RobertB

    August 29, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @Jesse: One I read a few weeks ago in reference to a Marine jet purchase, “The Navy’s Army’s Air Force.”

  67. 67.

    Mai Naem mobile

    August 29, 2022 at 8:47 am

    Just anecdata here. We have Grand Canyon Christian University here. I’ve talked to a couple of first generation hispanic  prospective college students and GCU does a really good marketing job. It’s not a bad school or a scam school but its more expensive than ASU or going to community college and then transferring to ASU. They seem to emphasize the Christian part ofcourse and I believe  students’ foreign born parents think ‘private’ means better than ‘public’ because that’s the way it is in their native countries.

  68. 68.

    lashonharangue

    August 29, 2022 at 8:48 am

    deleted

  69. 69.

    Kay

    August 29, 2022 at 8:50 am

    Anti-abortion groups lobby for and get more public funding for their fake clinics where women are only given low quality “services” (a sonogram and a diaper bag with some coupons) if they agree to religious and political indoctrination:

    The Legislature passed the “More Options for Maternal Support” (MOMS) program into law earlier this year, appropriating $500,000 toward funding nonprofit organizations that encourage alternatives to abortion. These organizations, often called pregnancy centers, provide services such as pregnancy and adoption counseling for expecting and new parents.Program funds have not been distributed yet. Alex Carfrae, a public information officer with the Iowa Department of Health and Human Services, said the goal was to have services in place before the start of the next fiscal year. The next fiscal year starts July 1, 2023The department is working to hire a program manager to develop a request for proposals, which will seek a program administrator to build out a “statewide network of pregnancy support providers,” Carfrae said.

    Texas is spending tens of millions on it. Nothing additional for real, high quality medical care, but millions diverted to Right wing religious/political groups for unregulated, low quality “counseling” where women must learn their proper place in society in exchange for a package of diapers and a car seat.

    It’s a Right wing religious employment program and it’s all public funds- let the grift begin!

    Iowa’s program was modeled after the one in Texas, which also faced criticism after reports of “significant financial irregularities” on the part of one of the network’s subcontractors.

  70. 70.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 8:51 am

    @lowtechcyclist: Basically the Space Force does the same stuff the Air Force Space Command used to do. So they operate the spysat and GPS fleets, military comsats, the X-37B spaceplane, stuff like that (not the ICBMs). And, no, it doesn’t seem like enough to me either.

  71. 71.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 8:57 am

    @Jesse: FWIW it’s still very small; not even remotely close to, say, the size of the army. Maybe several hundred people total, I think.

    Yes, not remotely close to the size of the army 😄 unless you meant Monaco’s.

    There is something of a battle of science-fiction tropes here, between the ones that base their setup on naval vessels, and those that go all libertarian with plucky individuals setting out in their personal rockets.  Given the cost of fuel and the sheer tonnage of supplies humans need — a nasty combo of the rocket equation and the wagon equation — I’m going to guess that the navy model wins.

    Besides, as Charles Stross put it in one of his science-fiction novels, a space habitat is going to crush any libertarian impulses pretty damn quick. There is no such thing as personal freedom in a place where opening a door wrong can kill everyone.

  72. 72.

    Layer8Problem

    August 29, 2022 at 8:59 am

    @Matt McIrvin:  Spare no expense or geometric increase in bureaucracy; any excuse for a Cool Uniform.  Although I don’t think the uniforms are all that cool.

  73. 73.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 8:59 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Go Go Space Force Rangers!

    It’s gonna delay things another couple decades if the spaceships also have to transform and combine into a giant robot.

  74. 74.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    August 29, 2022 at 9:00 am

    Biden made a mistake putting Rick Moranis in charge of Space Force

  75. 75.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 29, 2022 at 9:00 am

    @Mai Naem mobile: For-profit colleges are an abomination

  76. 76.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 9:01 am

    @Ken: Among right-wing space fans, the battling attitudes seem to be “the government can’t do anything right, space belongs to plucky entrepreneurs and garage tinkerers” and “actually space travel is one of the few legitimate functions of Big Government–eliminate welfare programs so we can have cities on Mars”. The latter tend to be the people who looked into what it actually takes to go into space, so it’s the one kind of large social endeavor where they have some degree of expertise.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    August 29, 2022 at 9:02 am

    Hopefully we will see the launch on Friday.

    OT  I looked through some of yesterday’s blogs, and congratulations to Subaru Diane for the generous match for the world Central Kitchen.

    btw Amazon sells some of his products with the proceeds going to the WCK.   Keep that in mind when you are shopping for a gift.

  78. 78.

    dmsilev

    August 29, 2022 at 9:02 am

    SLS launched scrubbed for today; problem with one of the engines. If it’s something easily fixed, the next launch window is September 2. If the thing has to be rolled back off the pad to do more serious work, we’re probably looking at weeks or maybe a month or two of delay.

    Given the …fraught history of the program, not at all surprising.

  79. 79.

    Layer8Problem

    August 29, 2022 at 9:02 am

    @Ken:

    . . . if the spaceships also have to transform and combine into a giant robot.

    Muh tax dollars!

  80. 80.

    Layer8Problem

    August 29, 2022 at 9:05 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Or they saw Starship Troopers and said “That!  That’s where I want to live!”

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 29, 2022 at 9:05 am

    @dmsilev:

    SLS launched scrubbed for today; problem with one of the engines.

    Did they try turning it off, then on again?

    Or is it on, then off again? 🤔

  82. 82.

    catclub

    August 29, 2022 at 9:09 am

    @mrmoshpotato: ​
      spray some ether in the intake.

  83. 83.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 9:10 am

    @Layer8Problem: Space Force pulls them in with the naked co-ed showers.

    (Also something that won’t be available in space — showers, I mean. Weight of water, danger of drops getting into the electronics, danger of drowning in a surface-tension mishap….)

  84. 84.

    catclub

    August 29, 2022 at 9:11 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: ​
     

    Biden made a mistake putting Rick Moranis in charge of Space Force

    John Candy was unavailable.

  85. 85.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 9:12 am

    @Layer8Problem: “And why don’t today’s young people appreciate Robert Heinlein? I don’t understand it! I loved those books so much when I read them in 1964!”

  86. 86.

    Mai Naem mobile

    August 29, 2022 at 9:14 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: the real scam are the majority of charter schools which may as well be called for profit K-12 schools.

  87. 87.

    catclub

    August 29, 2022 at 9:14 am

    @Kay: ​
     

    of “significant financial irregularities”

    it is all about the grift. even moreso when the GOP legislature is trying to direct state education funding to religious private schools. and the SC wants more of that.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 9:14 am

    @Ken: Skylab actually had a shower, a sort of enclosed tube that used airflow to make the water move. There’s a reason they never built anything like it again, though–the astronauts felt it was too much trouble to use.

    https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36066/how-did-skylabs-space-shower-work

  89. 89.

    Layer8Problem

    August 29, 2022 at 9:19 am

    @Matt McIrvin: “Farnham’s Freehold hasn’t aged a day!”

  90. 90.

    dmsilev

    August 29, 2022 at 9:20 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Heh. I don’t think “try unplugging and plugging it back in” is part of the NASA troubleshooting routine.

    More seriously, the problem was that the engines have to be cooled to very low temperatures as part of the startup process (because the fuel is liquid hydrogen and oxygen, both very cryogenic liquids) and one of the four engines wasn’t cooling properly.

  91. 91.

    artem1s

    August 29, 2022 at 9:21 am

    @gene108:

    What interests me is if NASA can get a human habitation built and occupied on the moon that’s part of the broader goal for this return to the moon.

    even if the eventual goal is Mars (with interim trips to the asteroid belt objects) it’s been 50 years since NASA sent a crewed mission outside of earth’s orbit. They will have a decade (or more) of smaller step missions with and without crew before they can even think about landing humans anywhere again. The budget for Artemis was established years ago (under W I think). It’s pretty much been spent so no use in scrubbing it now. Once this is over NASA can turn their attention and budget back to reworking our human space exploration – unless some future POTUS decides to hamstring their budget with some glorified ‘man in a can’ mission again.

    Bigger waste of energy, attention and $ is TFG’s Starship Troopers boondoggle. Get that scrubbed and the space exploration budget out of the defense department and back into NASA. Time to put it in the scrapheap with Star Wars.

  92. 92.

    eversor

    August 29, 2022 at 9:22 am

    @catclub:

    This is not really about grift though.   This is firmly that the GOP wants prayer in schools and Christian education, full stop.   The bible readers would have no problem with public education if there were classes on Christianity and forced prayer.  Their horror is that the younger generations have realized Christianity is not only bullshit, it’s extremely toxic and root of most of our issues.

    Sure the people at the top may want to grift it, but the reason it’s massively popular is the bases wants Jesus.  This is also the reasons CHUDS are completely OK with detonating their social security, unemployment, and everything else.   Send those funds to the church.  So that anybody who needs any help ever has to bow before Jesus and live acording to traditional biblical and Christian values of patriarchy, gender roles, and sexuality.

  93. 93.

    Soprano2

    August 29, 2022 at 9:23 am

    @Kay: Then Republicans will say “see, we do allocate money to help women and children, what are you complaining about?”. They’ll probably rob money from the health services that really do help people. It’s disgusting.

  94. 94.

    artem1s

    August 29, 2022 at 9:26 am

    @Layer8Problem: ​
     

    @Matt McIrvin: Or they saw Starship Troopers and said “That! That’s where I want to live!”

    Or worse, saw First Contact and thought, “I’m gonna change my name to Zefram Cochran, steal a nuke, invent warp drive and be a ga-zillionaire”.

  95. 95.

    artem1s

    August 29, 2022 at 9:29 am

    @eversor: ​
     
    This is not really about grift though. yes it is. White Hat Management alone stole 1 billion of taxpayers money from Summit County in Ohio by opening up crappy charter schools. That was the early days of voucher programs. They are robbing the states blind and putting the dollars in their own pockets. Keeping the rubes dumb and placid is a by product of the grift, not the main goal.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 9:32 am

    @artem1s: The third Artemis mission is supposed to be the crewed landing. But it’s this weird Frankenstein mission, like they took an old Wernher von Braun scheme and grafted it onto the remains of the old Constellation program: Orion launched by SLS, actual landing done with a modified SpaceX Starship that gets launched separately with a SpaceX rocket and refueled with multiple launches so this huge thing can go to the Moon, land and take off. Astronauts come home in the Orion. The Starship is just a lunar lander so it doesn’t have to do atmospheric entry, which is the most technologically risky part of the program.

    I have to admit it’s ambitious. The astronauts get a really luxurious huge spacecraft to land in.

  97. 97.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Speaking of old programs, am I the only one who has a moment of confusion when the Orion spacecraft is mentioned? Did no one at NASA consider the previous use of the name?

  98. 98.

    danielx

    August 29, 2022 at 9:45 am

    @mrmoshpotato: ​
     
    I thought Mel Brooks already had this covered.

  99. 99.

    MisterDancer

    August 29, 2022 at 9:47 am

    Accompanying [Nichols] on ULA’s rocket (named Vulcan) will be Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, his wife and “First Lady of Star Trek” Majel Barrett Roddenberry[…]

    That’s damn interesting. Forgive me diving into now-ancient behind the scenes stuff. I promise an interesting payoff!

    So Nichols’ autobiography made clear she — like Majel — had also been a lover with Gene (yes, while Gene was still married to his first wife. It’s a whole-assed mess.) No exact idea when, save it was before Gene hired her for Trek.

    That said, from all accounts, Nichelle and Majel were friends. In fact…they actually have the First Interracial Kiss on Trek (and thus, arguably, Television!)

    It’s a “blink and you miss it” background moment, but in the episode “What Are Little Girls Made Of?,” they share a brief smooch as Majel’s character is leaving the bridge of the Enterprise. I think “we” miss it because the later kiss in “Plato’s Stepchildren” was deliberate and the focus — plus two women kissing was just seen as friendly, not romantic…

    …but so was that kiss Nancy Sinatra gave Sammy Davis Jr. on TV, and that still caused a MFing ruckus, from what I hear.

    Anyway. So now you all know that the “first” Interracial kiss, was also same-gender!

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 9:49 am

    @Ken: I remember that causing a lot of confusion when the project was first announced ages ago, because of course a lot of space fans are fascinated by the original Orion proposal.

  101. 101.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 29, 2022 at 9:49 am

    @gene108: ​

    From what I’ve read, one of the biggest engineering challenges to a moon base is radiation, from cosmic rays and solar storms. The stuff our atmosphere and magnetic field protect us from. Apollo just got lucky that there were never any moon walks during a solar storm event, though I’ve read that at least one mission just missed a storm.

    If there’s ever human habitation on the Moon (and this may go for Mars as well), it’s not going to be a glass dome on the surface. It will probably need to be underground.

  102. 102.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 29, 2022 at 9:53 am

    @danielx: I know pretty much zero Hebrew, but does that Hebrew on the side of the ship at 0:43 say “kosher”?

  103. 103.

    germy shoemangler

    August 29, 2022 at 9:53 am

    @Matt McIrvin:  I also do like the symbolic opportunity to get some people on the Moon who aren’t white men, which will surely happen if the program succeeds.

    I’m so old I remember when white astronauts turned the moon’s surface into a golf course

  104. 104.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: That fits well with the movie tropes, where we get a (matte painting of) an elaborate domed city on the surface of Mars, after which the rest of the movie looks like it was mostly filmed in a windowless office building, except they got use of a factory for a couple of fight/chase scenes.

  105. 105.

    Wapiti

    August 29, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Ken: And any Libertarian who refused the Covid vaccine due to personal liberty would not be an acceptable candidate for a manned space mission.

  106. 106.

    dnfree

    August 29, 2022 at 10:00 am

    @lowtechcyclist: every time I see MJ here I have to run through a mental list.  Michael Jordan?  Seems unlikely.  Michael Jackson?  Deceased.  It still takes me a while to get to Morning Joe.

  107. 107.

    HinTN

    August 29, 2022 at 10:01 am

    @Layer8Problem: Shouldn’t their camo be points of light on a black background?

    /wag

  108. 108.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 10:02 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yup.

  109. 109.

    rikyrah

    August 29, 2022 at 10:04 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Been watching this race with a lot of interest.

     

    EVERY VOTE COUNTS.

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 10:09 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Definitely goes for Mars as well. Mars lacks a global magnetic field like Earth’s to cut down the incoming charged particles. Nor does it have a significant ozone layer to protect from UV light, but that’s easier to deal with.

  111. 111.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 10:16 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Last I heard, the perchlorates in Martian soil may make underground structures (much less potato farms) problematic.

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 29, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Baud:

    MJ complaining that the student loan forgiveness doesn’t go far enough.

    Joseph of the Morning himself? Or some of his sidekicks?

  113. 113.

    Mimi

    August 29, 2022 at 10:23 am

    @Baud: Thank you. I wondered what was up with Michael Jordan.

  114. 114.

    Steeplejack

    August 29, 2022 at 10:25 am

    @twbrandt (formerly tom):

    You’ve got a bad link in your nym—a space (%20) and an s at the end.

  115. 115.

    The Moar You Know

    August 29, 2022 at 10:25 am

    This rocket may make it into orbit – someday – but it will never go any further.

    The federal contracting model has ensured that this thing will be a failure out the gate.  And will cost ten times as much as it should have.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    August 29, 2022 at 10:30 am

    A report by the Kyiv Post from two hours ago is headlined, “Ukrainian counteroffensive underway in Kherson region.”

    The article said that a Ukrainian battle group claims it has pierced Russian front lines defending the southern port of Kherson and that instead of counter attacking, Russian paratroopers were “fleeing the battle field.”

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 29, 2022 at 10:30 am

    Speaking of Beltway Conventional Wisdom, yesterday launched another round of “trump happened because you lies were mean to Our Willard, The Virtuous!” on twitter, to the point where Romney is trending this morning.

    His flirtations with birtherism (etc) are being thoroughly rehashed, but has anyone else noticed that Romney has been very quiet about trump’s violations of the Espionage Act? Or is this just me not paying attention to CNN again?

  118. 118.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 10:32 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The whole crew.

  119. 119.

    Kent

    August 29, 2022 at 10:36 am

    I have to admit that I had to look up “Artemis” to find out what the name meant. Paraphrased from Wikipedia:

    ARTEMIS:  Greek goddess of the hunt, the wilderness, wild animals, nature, vegetation, childbirth, care of children, and chastity.  In Greek tradition, Artemis is the daughter of the sky god and king of gods Zeus and Leto, and the twin sister of Apollo. In most accounts, the twins are the products of an extramarital liaison. For this, Zeus’ wife Hera forbade Leto from giving birth anywhere on land. Only the island of Delos gave refuge to Leto, allowing her to give birth to her children.

    So illegitimate twin sister of Apollo.  I never knew that.

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    August 29, 2022 at 10:51 am

    Just waking up here in Southern California.

    Sorry to see that the Moon rocket launch has been delayed.

    So illegitimate twin sister of Apollo.

    And of course Apollo and Artemis are both lunar missions.

  121. 121.

    Subsole

    August 29, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @HinTN:

    Honestly? You probably want something very bright. White or silver. You’re likely going to be soaking a lot of sun, even on the moon. So you want to reflect as much as you can to keep your temperature regulated.

    Also, if your tether snaps and you do a little one-way EVA, you very, very badly want to be visible. And, y’know, carrying a radio beacon that could fry pigeons. Because locking-on to a radio pulse is a LOT easier than scanning for a person over a three AU arc…

  122. 122.

    Geminid

    August 29, 2022 at 11:00 am

    @Baud: Does the Morning Joe crew give a desired number for student loan forgiveness, say $50,000? Or no  income limit for recipients?

    Or are they just arguing for an abstract “more?” That’s easier to do.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    August 29, 2022 at 11:02 am

    @Geminid:

    They were arguing for reform of the system going forward, especially lowering tuition rates.

  124. 124.

    Subsole

    August 29, 2022 at 11:03 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Forget Mars. The real place to be is Venus. If I recall correctly, room air is a lift gas in Venusian atmosphere. So you could build MASSIVE balloons, coat them in some sort of ceramic glaze to keep the acid off, and hey voila, Lando’s your uncle.

    Also, I believe the vagaries of orbital mechanics mean it is actually easier to sling cargo inward to Venus, then sling it outward, say to the Belt or Mars, rather than just going A to B.

     

    So it kind of figures that Elon’s ass wants Mars. I wish him luck.

    Gonna be a trip watching his Conditionally-Manumitted Life-Contract Guest-Workers grow crops in soil that’s like 50% perchlorate, and by all accounts sterile.

  125. 125.

    Mike in NC

    August 29, 2022 at 11:04 am

    The best show on TV is “For All Mankind” on Apple. An alternate history of the space program where the USSR made the first landing on the moon, and where NASA, the Soviets, and a private American company are racing to be the first to land on Mars. Outstanding cast and special effects. One character is a female Republican who defeated Bill Clinton to be president. She has a large painting of Nixon above the Oval Office fireplace, which probably implies that he wasn’t a rotten scumbag who resigned in disgrace. Hey, it’s science fiction after all.

  126. 126.

    Miss Bianca

    August 29, 2022 at 11:06 am

    Is anyone besides me just chuffed that the successor to the Apollo program is named after his sister Artemis?

  127. 127.

    raven

    August 29, 2022 at 11:07 am

    @Miss Bianca: It was named after my doggie.

  128. 128.

    raven

    August 29, 2022 at 11:07 am

    @Mike in NC: it sucks

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 29, 2022 at 11:07 am

    @Baud:

    They were arguing for reform of the system going forward, especially lowering tuition rates.

    credit where due, that’s an important part of the discussion that’s been overshadowed by the desire for big bold executive action for its own sake

    ETA: another issue where on-line progressives ought to spend more time focusing on state governments

  130. 130.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 11:10 am

    @Kent: “Artemis” makes more sense than “Apollo” as a name for a Moon program, since she has Moon associations.

  131. 131.

    Subsole

    August 29, 2022 at 11:13 am

    @Ken: And Ken got there first. Shucks.

     

    Farmwise, we may also want to factor in the utter lack of sunlight and surface temperatures that pretty much guarantee water is gonna be a solid unless you put a fire under it. (Good luck starting one in all that CO2.)

     

    As Solomon Short once said, “How do the fool and his money get together in the first place?”

  132. 132.

    raven

    August 29, 2022 at 11:16 am

    @Kent: They named my girl after her at the vet that saved her when she had and arrow shot through her neck (among other things).

  133. 133.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 11:17 am

    @Subsole: Missions to Venus and Mercury tend to do a lot of gravity assists past Earth and Venus to bleed off excess energy (since they start out with too much, Earth being further up the Sun’s well). Takes years, but I guess you can get a lot of the required delta-v that way. Also Venus has a really thick atmosphere for aerobraking, unlike Mars.

  134. 134.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 29, 2022 at 11:18 am

    @Subsole:

    @Ken: I learned a new word today, and something I didn’t know about Mars.

    Found this article which goes in depth into the problem of perchlorates and mitigation strategies.

  135. 135.

    Miss Bianca

    August 29, 2022 at 11:19 am

    @raven: : )

    TO THE MOON, ARTIE! TO THE MOON!

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    August 29, 2022 at 11:20 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    Is anyone besides me just chuffed that the successor to the Apollo program is named after his sister Artemis?

    I noted in a post above that it is both cool and logical.  Two moon missions named for twin gods.

    And I think Artemis is meant to put the first woman astronaut on the Moon.

  137. 137.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 11:21 am

    @Brachiator: @Miss Bianca: @Matt McIrvin: Clearly the lunar colony is a cover story, and the Artemis mission is to the Sun.

    UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT information, et cetera.

    As for the symbolism, most of the Artemis stories are your basic “boy sees goddess, goddess flies into rage, boy is killed horribly”, so let’s hope the missions don’t follow the pattern.

  138. 138.

    UncleEbeneezer

    August 29, 2022 at 11:22 am

    John McWhorter rejects the notion: when Black folk get lower standardized test scores, either the tests are racist or something is wrong w/ Black folk. Calls this “an artificially narrowed realm of choices.” Then he explains what’s wrong w/ Black folk. 1/

    To make his case, McWhorter cites a 1983 book that ends up claiming a Black community is “almost book free.” He quotes a Black respondent who shares his racist belief that: “We don’t talk to our chil’rn like [White] folks do. We don’t ask ’em ’bout colors, names ’n things.” 2/

    “That quote does get at something in a general sense,” McWhorter says. Then he backtracks, denying what was said. “Her point wasn’t that Black culture, or working-class culture, is unenlightened or that Black people or working-class white people are in any sense inarticulate.” 3/

    “Neither she then, nor I now, say there is some flaw in Black or working-class white culture,” McWhorter writes after describing flaws in Black or working-class culture that in his view explains why Black people are getting lower standardized test scores. 4/

    This is a usual McWhorter’s op-ed on race. He challenges antiracism. He denies there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. He claims there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. He denies he said there’s something wrong and inferior about Black people. 5/

    The same McWhorter merry-go-round of denial. He offers readers an escape from the discomfort of antiracism for the pleasure of demeaning Black folk as they deny they are demeaning Black folk. McWhorter has reduced himself to a popular amusement ride. He’s an embarrassment. 6/6

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 29, 2022 at 11:23 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: They mention the potential usefulness for in situ fuel production–I’m pretty sure that where I first heard the word “perchlorate” was that ammonium perchlorate is the oxidizer used by Space Shuttle (and SLS) solid rocket boosters. (The fuel is powdered aluminum, and it’s all mixed together in a rubbery binder.)

    But that’s not nice stuff to be around.

  140. 140.

    Subsole

    August 29, 2022 at 11:25 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Neat. Thanks.

    Maybe I’m biased, but I have a hard time trusting Plan Ayn from Outer Space to install all those expensive safety measures…

  141. 141.

    Subsole

    August 29, 2022 at 11:27 am

    @Ken: So, like father like daughter, is what you’re saying?

  142. 142.

    Ken

    August 29, 2022 at 11:29 am

    @Subsole: Plan Ayn from Outer Space

    I renew my plea for an upvote feature.

  143. 143.

    zhena gogolia

    August 29, 2022 at 11:36 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: The NYT just loves him.

  144. 144.

    twbrandt (formerly tom)

    August 29, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    @Steeplejack: fixed, thanks!

  145. 145.

    UncleEbeneezer

    August 29, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    @zhena gogolia: They know their audience.  There’s always been a huge market for Black voices who are willing to tell White People the comfortable lies that they want to hear to justify their racist beliefs.  The more respectable and seemingly academic, the better.  McWhorter does it better than just about anyone, as Kendi describes, walking just up to the line of “the problem is Black people” but never openly admitting it.

  146. 146.

    zhena gogolia

    August 29, 2022 at 1:00 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Yeah. He drives me nuts.

  147. 147.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    August 29, 2022 at 1:14 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  A habitation on Mars would also have to cycle the crew out periodically.  Why we will never colonize Mars or anywhere but Earth.  Living permanently in 1/6 Earth gravity is not good for the human body.  Less than Earth gravity has effects on your eyeballs, your bones and your heart and lungs among other body systems.  I don’t know exactly what would happen to someone who returned to earth after spending a couple years in 1/6 gravity but it might possible cause permanent changes to their muscles, bones, heart and lungs that made return to 1G very difficult.  I don’t even want to thing about what effects 1/6 gravity would have on trying to carry a pregnancy to term…

  148. 148.

    The Thin Black Duke

    August 29, 2022 at 1:15 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Malcolm X warned us about “House Negroes.”

  149. 149.

    2liberal

    August 29, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

     

    So do people enlist directly in Space Force? Or is it someplace the Air Force shifts airmen it would like to be rid of.

    Good question!  I’ve got another, for anyone who can answer it: as a branch of the armed forces, what duties does the Space Force have?

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Force

  150. 150.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    August 29, 2022 at 5:24 pm

     ARTEMIS: Greek goddess of the hunt,

    Disappointed. I thought it was named after Secret Service agent Artemis Gordon from the old show, “The Wild Wild West” (photo)

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