Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV. pic.twitter.com/4jBbc3uKOJ
— Dave Whamond (@DaveWhamond) August 16, 2022
Some of the other Trump scandals were a little complicated to understand but this one is so straight forward. He yoinked classified documents and took them to imaginary White House. They asked for them back and then he just… ignored it. And this is the generous view of events. https://t.co/gnBe3FXxof
— AdotSad (@AdotSad) August 31, 2022
Our Respectable Mainstream Media, here in the Second Gilded Age, has grown increasingly lazy about the pursuit of actual ‘news’, preferring to act as stenographers to the moneyed classes and the GOP (but I repeat myself), secure in the knowledge they could always steal material from various social-media outlets when something really important happened. But now… some of the middle ranks, at least, sense a potential ‘Watergate, but global’ in the making. Per the Washington Post:
… The filing traces the extraordinary saga of government officials’ repeated efforts to recover sensitive national security papers from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club, centered on a storage room where prosecutors came to suspect that “government records were likely concealed and removed … and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.”
The agents also came to doubt claims by Trump’s team that the storage room was the only place where such documents might be found…
The 36-page filing also reveals, for the first time, the text of a written assurance given to the Justice Department by Trump’s “custodian of records” on June 3. It says Trump’s team had done a thorough search for any classified material in response to a subpoena and had turned over any relevant documents.
Trump and his representatives gave the Justice Department 38 classified documents that day, the filing says, in addition to 184 others that were discovered in boxes sent to the National Archives earlier in the year.
The filing says Trump’s lawyer told Justice Department officials that all White House records that remained at Mar-a-Lago nearly 17 months after Trump left office were contained in the storage room, and that all boxes in the room had been searched.
Yet when FBI agents raided the Trump property in August, they found more than 100 additional classified papers, which, prosecutors wrote, “calls into serious question the representations made in the June 3 certification and casts doubt on the extent of cooperation in this matter.”…
According to a partially redacted affidavit unsealed Friday, the agents who conducted the search of Mar-a-Lago were seeking all “physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation” of three federal laws, including a part of the Espionage Act outlawing gathering, transmitting or losing national defense information. The warrant also cites laws on destruction of records and concealment or mutilation of government material.
The search is part of a criminal investigation into whether Trump and his aides took secret government papers and did not return all of them, despite demands from senior officials, and whether anyone obstructed government efforts to recover all of the classified material.
The reference to the exhibit in the text indicates that FBI found all these documents "in a container" in his office (NB not in the storage room). So it stands to reason the FBI team arranged them this way for this photo. https://t.co/lBI6Yy6xAH pic.twitter.com/w6trd0n3C4
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) August 31, 2022
Lol it's literally the standard "guns/drugs/money" 'raid haul' format…….just with a bunch of classified docs (with the SCI coversheets most prominent of course, just like they always put the scariest looking guns up front)
— Mike Black (@MikeBlack114) August 31, 2022
For those asking:
HCS = HUMINT (Human intelligence)
SI = COMINT (Communications intelligence)
TK = not going to explain the letters, but I’ll say that it’s IMINT (image intelligence)Three of our most closely guarded secrets.
— Angry Staffer ?? (@Angry_Staffer) August 31, 2022
Oh dear pic.twitter.com/JfT8y9QL37
— Laura Walker ????????? ?????????????? (@LauraWalkerKC) August 31, 2022
The picture is so great because people might assume 'top secret' is some tiny footnote written in the margins but lol no. Big, bright fuck-off color coded cover pages. As subtle as a fundraising email. pic.twitter.com/iCpP4uSilS
— zeddy (@Zeddary) August 31, 2022
New picture in the WH instead of the official picture of Frump.#TrumpMeltdown #TrumpStoleClassifiedDocuments pic.twitter.com/m71KhHggEt
— Now He's Going To Jail. ?? (@Jckruse79) August 31, 2022
Absolute Karma that the FBI picture of all the classified docs found in Trumps desk shows a framed Time Magazine cover that says "Knock knock" and has Joe Biden & Kamala Harris in it.
Bwahaaahaaa ??#TrumpMeltdown incoming! pic.twitter.com/A3BphcPbnw— Real Republican (@JohnBar00589422) August 31, 2022
I actually keep up with the Trump investigation easily, by consistently saying that Donald Trump is bad and should not have done that. RIP to your midterms but I’m different https://t.co/NErjtYTDvK
— counterfax???? (@counterfax) August 30, 2022
#TrumpMeltdown EXPLAINED:
“He’s guilty as sin.” – @gtconway3d pic.twitter.com/4T5Zfmm5HD
— Grant Stern is boosted! (@grantstern) August 31, 2022
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Some classification trivia. A lot of people will say things like “above top secret” and “SCI is the highest level of classification”
The security people will tell you pedantically that there is nothing above TS. SCI is more like a formal “need to know”. And at the bottom of the photo you can see a cover sheet marked “SECRET/SCI”
Baud
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
What about Tippy Top Secret?
Danielx
His appearance in Wilkes-Barre with Oz and Mastriano is gonna be lit.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Baud: That’s different too because of the Pinky Swear you have to do before sharing it
.
germy shoemangler
@Danielx:
His audience will love it. They always do.
OzarkHillbilly
“He’s guilty as sin.” So is the GOP for aiding and abetting him.
Danielx
@germy shoemangler:
I know, I know – sorta like seeing a punk rock show back when. One reviewer says “these jagoffs don’t even know how to play their instruments!” and another is raving about “raw authenticity!”. One attendee of the rally (as a witness) will say “this guy is crazy – head trauma crazy, fucking nuts” and a true believer will proclaim “Trump should and will be president forever!”.
jonas
@Danielx: Really? Their carts are still firmly hitched to that traitorous buffoon even as both are falling further behind in their respective races?
Cacti
We are truly in strange (and dangerous) times.
Never in the history of the republic have we had an ex-POTUS who was an overt national security threat. Who knows the extent of the damage he’s already done.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: THIS
The opportunity to stop theft of government documents has passed, so now they are just all in.
rikyrah
Been watching movies and tv shows, and didn’t know for real if the Government actually used TOP SECRET
for that kind of intelligence.
Is it a special color?
a bar code?
a folder?
No. It’s like the phucking movies.
BIG AZZ LETTERS
THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM ACROSS THE ROOM.
ALL ON IT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE
TOP SECRET
IN BRIGHT COLORS
jonas
So Trump’s now claiming that it doesn’t matter what’s in those pictures because they were all declassified! (Narrator: “They weren’t.”) So I guess next up is Trump explaining why he unilaterally “declassified” some of the nation’s most sensitive national security secrets — stuff that will put our troops in danger, cripple our intelligence capabilities, and likely get people killed. In other words, he’s claiming he stole raft after raft of highly classified government secrets and then more or less put them up on Wikileaks. I guess he’ll be joining Edward Snowden for that tickertape parade.
p.a.
Repub’s endgame- no place to turn: stick with Dump and go down, turn on Dump to try saving themselves and lose his yowling mob of mud people, and go down.
How will the Dump appointed, Fed Society shitstain judge play it?
Leto
Yeah, we don’t tiptoe around it. Everyone and their mothers know what you’re handling, which is also another indicator of “FUCK OFF” if you’re not supposed to be there.
@Cacti: I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and how we probably won’t know for a very long time just how bad it is. We’re only starting to connect some of the dots (the disappearing CIA assets) but we’re basically still in the storm. Everything going on here is why the rest of our allies still have concerns about what type of partner we will be moving forward.
jonas
@rikyrah:
You’ll also note that none of those covers are marked with a “declassified” stamp.
Eunicecycle
@Cacti: The fact that he had 3 documents in his desk makes me think those are ones he was actively using, for sale? For kompromat? At first I thought he kept the stuff just because of his juvenile “You’re not the boss of me” attitude but I am changing my mind.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve started to wince at every revelation of something terrible Trump did because my response is no longer “this is the thing that will get him for sure,” it’s “this is another crime that will now mysteriously be normalized as OK”.
Eventually we get to the point where it’s normal for a Republican President to go on a Fifth Avenue shooting spree.
jonas
Our only indication will probably be how pale and shaken members of the HPSCI look when they exit the briefing room with the DNI after the intelligence damage assessment is completed.
Nettoyeur
@Cacti: Aaron Burr would like a word…..
Nettoyeur
@Eunicecycle: The ones kept near his passports might be for his Go Bag…
Matt McIrvin
@jonas: He doesn’t have to explain why. He’s the King and if the King says it’s OK, it’s OK.
Roger Moore
@jonas:
They’re left with nothing but bad choices. If they stick with Trump, they risk whatever bad stuff he runs into sticking to them. If the repudiate him- and make no mistake, his supporters will see refusing to attend a rally with him as repudiation- they’ll lose their strongest supporters.
Matt McIrvin
(Of course, there are historically limits to what kings can get away with and the response is not pretty.)
Leto
@jonas: if he had declassified them, the public would have that information. Again, easily disproved. It’s to our nation’s detriment that the media won’t simply say that everything out of his bloated mouth is a fucking lie. 24/7/365 lies.
Matt McIrvin
@Leto: The theory is that he automatically and silently declassified them by walking out the door with them.
Leto
@jonas: “We’d like to let the public know just how damaging this is, but we’re still coming to grips with it ourselves.” – HSPCI
bbleh
@rikyrah: @Leto: @jonas: And at least in my experience EVERY PAGE is stamped TOP AND BOTTOM with big red classification stamps. Sometimes EVERY PARAGRAPH has a marking at the beginning.
And if and when it’s declassified, markings are lined through, there’s a declassification stamp, and there’s information provided as to when it was declassified and under what authority.
Just seeing these pictures gives me heartburn …
danielx
@jonas:
Who the hell knows? If we were talking about rational actors I’d guess they’d be talking about sudden family issues that would tragically preclude them from being in the same building (or county) with TFG on the specified date. But I can’t understand the thought processes of someone who would attach themselves to Trump’s ever more widening and toxic ass in the first place.
Then there’s the unappealing prospect of being branded a coward and traitor by TFG himself for failing to appear with him and stand up for him. THAT kind of unendorsement can put you in somebody’s sights these days.
bbleh
@Leto: @Matt McIrvin: And of course, just to be pedantic, NONE of the three statutes cited in the warrant turn on whether material is classified or not. The Espionage Act, in particular, refers only to “National Defense Information,” the significance of which would be up to a jury. Classification (which system came only decades after the Act was passed) is technically immaterial (although of course a jury could infer from it that the material is indeed sensitive).
steppy
@Danielx: You know what will be lit? If he’s arrested in Wilkes-Barre as he prepares to make his appearance with the quack and the dollar-store fascist.
I know, but a boy can dream, can’t he?
Roger Moore
@Eunicecycle:
I don’t know if you can assume Trump has the same motivations as a normal person. In particular, I think it’s telling that some of the classified documents appear to have been kept in the same box as framed Time magazine covers. That says to me that some of them, at least, were kept primarily to stroke his ego.
Kristine
Given how things are going, maybe checking out that coffin that is alleged to hold Ivana’s remains wouldn’t be a bad idea. **
At least monitor the area for suspicious shoveling activity in the middle of the night.
**Not sure how it could be done quietly, though. If announced, the MSM/GOP howls would shatter glass for miles around.
Geminid
@p.a.: Right now Republican leaders are caught in a bind of their own making. They want desperately to win back the House and Senate, and they know they can’t without trump’s hard core supporters. Republicans would like to see this matter pushed into the background but trump’s not about to let that happen.
Ken
I’ll just put that theory over here with phlogiston, the luminiferous aether, and the flat earth.
gvg
What I can’t get past is there is just no legitimate reason for him to have taken any of these documents at all, ever, for a minute. These are the kind of things that I would expect even the President to be taken down to a special secure basement to be told about them. And the President does not really need to know the actual agents in place names in most cases and should avoid knowing stuff he can give away inadvertantly by reaction. I mean really. He isn’t the CIA director or someone who actually manages agents or evaluates information. The President decides policy based on what information they can bring him and what influence they can help him project. And this guy always disbelieved them anyway.
If I had been working in a defense or intelligence agency then I would have tried to obscure and delay any real detailed facts on agents to him all along. No President needs to know the agents names all over the world except maybe once in awhile like say we have warning County x is planning a nuclear preemptive launch and we need to know if the report might actually know what they are talking about before the President stakes the USA’s rep on a big action…….which Trump never did actually.
So I am actually alarmed they let him have this much real info. He was obviously always unfit and plenty of them could see that all along.
lollipopguild
@Baud: Double Secret Top Secret then Triple Secret and so on…..
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@bbleh: Not “sometimes”. Every paragraph MUST be separately marked. And so is the title, and every caption.
You try to have unclassified titles but we’ve heard in the reporting that even the titles of many of these documents were classified.
Ken
So far it’s been a popcorn-worthy illustration of rake-stepping. Every time he’s demanded a release of information, the DOJ has done so, and the information makes things ever so much worse.
In the overnight thread, I said I expect that next he’ll demand release of the security images, and we’ll all be treated to the sight of him feeding classified documents into a photocopier.
Suzanne
@Danielx:
So back in 2016, SuzMom and I went to a Trump rally and heckled the shit out of him. And I started arguments with the MAGAts in line, etc. I think I was even commenting here from my phone.
There is absolutely no way in hell I would ever do that today. I would absolutely get shot.
CaseyL
Neither Oz nor Mastriano have the intellectual or moral capacity to see/acknowledge how fucked it is to have Trump’s endorsement and appear with Trump right now.
Roger Moore
@Matt McIrvin:
Which is still BS, but just requires a bit more effort to demonstrate. It’s true that Trump could have changed the classification rules so he could declassify stuff that way, but he never did. He never issued a new executive order on classification rules, so for stuff to be legally declassified it still had to go through the process as defined by previous presidents. Most importantly, “I declassified it” would be an affirmative defense, so Trump would have to produce evidence of his standing declassification order to make it work.
Furthermore, there is some classified information- notably nuclear secrets- that can only be declassified by a process that’s defined by statute. No matter what he says, Trump couldn’t declassify that stuff by fiat, and there is an indication the documents found at Mar-a-Lago include those kinds of secrets.
Elizabelle
Anybody asking James Comey for his hot take on this? This is fruit of his poisoned act. All of it is.
I don’t understand why Trump is not in custody. And I hope that his other residences are being searched. All of them.
catclub
@Baud: Also Double Secret probation
Geminid
@Suzanne: This upcoming rally will be exceptionally fraught. I expect trump’s mood will be savage, and the crowd’s too.
MisterForkbeard
@Leto: There are rare times when I wish Ballon Juice had upvotes or awards. This is one of those times.
The dude likes constantly. Why is it hard for media to note that? Just report it that way: Trump days X but this has no evidence and he regularly lies, so this should be assumed to be false”
Roger Moore
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
My (civilian) understanding is that is common for compartmentalized information. People aren’t supposed to know these things even exist unless they’re read in on them. You can understand why, too. Just revealing that we know certain information might be enough to compromise the program that generated it.
Betty Cracker
This slimy hack is meeping about the DOJ’s manipulation of “optics”:
Nothing Trump does is surprising — would anyone be shocked if proof emerges that he auctioned off intel assets to the Kremlin? But the lengths his slimy hack defenders will go to defend the indefensible — good God, whining about optics.
RSA
A frivolous thought occurred to me last night: By Trump rules, the President can declassify documents with the power of his mind. With such a flexible power, why couldn’t Joe Biden just reclassify those same documents? Checkmate.
jonas
With one simple FOIA request, you can get the CIA’s list of its most highly-placed moles in the Kremlin. How cool is that!
Leto
@Matt McIrvin: ah, the ole “ABRACADABA!” declassification technique. Niiice.
Mike in NC
Every single shabby Trump property needs to be visited by a wrecking ball to uncover more stolen classified documents that were going to be sold to Putin, Xi, and Kim.
Barney
‘Watergate, but global’.
Could we finally have a new suffix for subsequent scandals? “-a-Lago” is very easy to tack onto the end of something (if it ends in a vowel, drop the “-a”), and easily identifiable. Goes best with a single syllable prefix, I think.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: Intended for public consumption is good.
We have QAnon fanatics. People who disbelieve the moon landing.
Photographic evidence is powerful. It’s why Turley is mewling.
Barbara
@gvg: Right. Most people that work with sensitive information realize eventually that it is better not to know the nitty gritty details of certain information so that you can’t disclose it inadvertently.
I also agree that one of the good things about this craziness is that it is so easy to explain. Unlike other scandals, it takes a lot of effort to “contextualize” it with arguments like, “well, it wasn’t really classified anymore,” or “it was subject to executive privilege.” As the DOJ points out, executive privilege is a concept that exists vis a vis Congress, not against another executive agency like NARA! There is no “executive privilege” for documents that are being maintained by the main repository for all executive documents, even those that might be privileged against disclosure requests from Congress. But I guess Trump thinks uttering the words executive privilege is like casting a magic spell.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: Shorter Turley: “Why did they have to make him look so guilty!”
rikyrah
Tell that TRUTH![]()
Tom Watson (@tomwatson) tweeted at 7:37 AM on Wed, Aug 31, 2022:
Let’s be completely honest here: the entire White House press corps knew who he was – all four years, hell from the escalator on down – and pretended he was a legitimate political figure. The failure is astounding. Not of skill – but of character and ethics.
(https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/1564955648344948738?t=NFjbHl84vfWMy6UspbpKAQ&s=03)
Leto
@bbleh: correct. And like you said, if this goes to a jury I hope the fact that it was TS/SCI helps to establish how grave this is, as well as finally helping to nail his dried orange husk to the wall.
@jonas: with one FOIA request, and a simple $5000 donation, you too can receive from the Trumpov Circus a list of CIA assests! Call now, operators are standing by!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I gotta think Turley’s an embarrassment to his law school, colleagues, alumni and students.
I can’t find with a google, but isn’t there a story that one of his students tricked him into cancelling class by setting up a fake radio interview?
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: “How dare the FBI and DOJ push back against trump’s lies with highly prejudicial photographic proof!”
MazeDancer
Is there a deal Trump can make where he says, “I didn’t realize I couldn’t take these things”. Pays a big fine. And can still run for office?
Would be big pressure for DoJ to take it for “the good of the country”.
Leto
@Mike in NC: that should be job #1 of the new Public Works Admin.
West of the Rockies
Those SCI folders are the equivalent of a swollen black and red spider or brightly-colored reptile in nature. The warnings nor to touch could not be more obvious.
Is the orange moron still “Truthing” feverishly today?
Elizabelle
@Barbara: I bet Turley wanted to winge about the (masterful!) use of video in the J6 hearings, too. Can’t be ‘splaining things too clearly there. Don’t look good.
Cannot wait for the next one(s). Must see TV.
Elizabelle
@MazeDancer: Don’t even go there. Why?
I’m sick of seeing Trump get away with so much. He’s a difficult target, because he is so litigious and adept with social media.
Should not be subject to an easier criminal justice system. Time to make that clear.
Citizen Alan
So two nights ago, I dropped by the liquor store to pick up a bottle of vodka, and as soon as I step across the threshold I hear those magic words “I’m not a racist, but …” And the whole time I’m shopping, I’m trying to tune out the conversation between the owner and the not-racist hag who’s talking to him. I don’t actually hear anything the owner says, so I give him the benefit of a doubt and assume hes just nodding his head at the Craziness, which is why I didn’t just turn and leave. Anyway, the not-racist hag is angry that that “they” won’t let trump be president again, so she likes DeSantis. And two days later, I’m still angry over the fact that I didn’t start an argument with her in the parking lot, even though it could potentially have ended in violence because, well, Mississippi.
The thought of spending even another month in this barbaric hell state where 9 out of every 10 white people I cross paths with is a trump supporter Just makes me lose the will to live.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
–A Few Good Men
Renie
Don Winslow Twitter Today about NY Times Story “Documents at Mar-a-Lago Were Moved & Hidden as U.S. Sought Them Filing Suggests”
@donwinslow
Buried in today’s major NYT story is this key sentence: “But department officials are not expected to file charges imminently, if they ever do.”
God, I hope that’s not true.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Don’t know if they still do this, but I’ve heard that in the UK, at least during WW2, they used MOST SECRET. Which makes more grammatical sense.
Google tells me that TOP SECRET (“formerly MOST SECRET”) is used in the UK now. I guess the US won that language battle. What’s next, getting rid of those extra O’s in words like “colour”?
Ken
@Betty Cracker: I’m hoping a lot of the responses to Turley’s tweet are along the lines of, “Yeah, horrible, the DOJ should follow the good example of Trump and his lawyers, and stick to twitter and Fox.”
Mike in NC
Our TV just aired an ad from retired VADM Mike Franken, working to oust traitor Chuck Grassley in Iowa. Called my wife over to catch it since our families socialized a bit while we all were living in NoVA. Got to visit his office in the mid-90s when he was military aide to Ted Kennedy. He must be doing well in fundraising to advertise nationally.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I was talking to one of my neighbors this morning. She told me she’s a lifelong R but can’t vote for Trump. She was particularly horrified that he revealed the names of the FBI agents involved in the search, so now they’re getting threats.
The bad news is she thinks DeSantis is a good bet.
catclub
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Culur?
MisterForkbeard
@MazeDancer: He’d have to admit he was wrong first, so it won’t happen.
Really though, that’s what NARA and the DOJ spent 18 months trying to get. Just to get him to voluntarily return the stolen documents with no consequences. He wouldn’t do it and we’re way past the time where that could happen.
But I do expect him to be undercharged or undersentenced, because Ex President.
OzarkHillbilly
Heh. Every time somebody said to me, “Can I tell you a secret?”
I always replied, “Yes, but you probably don’t want to.”
It’s not that I am a mean spirited blabber mouth, I just don’t have any secrets, I am what I am. And what I am is all too likely to thoughtlessly disclose stuff other people don’t want out in public.
In my old age I have gotten a little better at exercising discretion but one is still better off keeping embarrassing facts to themselves.
catclub
@Citizen Alan:
We are moving. To become Massholes.
Matt McIrvin
@Leto: It’s very similar to the arguments used by tax protestors, or the inventors of perpetual motion machines–the idea is to argue backwards from the result you want to infer what the laws of physics or of the country you’re in must be.
Matt McIrvin
@catclub: There are plenty of Trumpies here but they’re not holding the reins.
Central Planning
@jonas: FOIA – the one weird trick that can get you all of the nation’s secrets!
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@catclub: Lol, oops. I meant extra U’s of course.
Garçon! More coffee! And leave the pot!
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Engage her in a conversation about public health, about education, about whether the governor can fire myriad public officials at will. Maybe even educate her about Hungary and Viktor Orban. How DeSantis is following that playbook.
How much does Mrs. Republican want to bring that banana republic nationwide?
She. Is not a good person.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@MisterForkbeard: Weeks ago, which is decades in TFG Crime Time, I heard someone talking about how he couldn’t go to prison simply because he’s still entitled to Secret Service protection and the logistics are impossible.
So I’ve personally scaled back my expectations to “miserable and tied up in court cases for the rest of his life, and never able to enjoy a single day or a single hour.”
Nelle
@Leto: Would the jury all have to be cleared for security clearances?
Suzanne
@Geminid:
These people are unhinged and armed.
See previous thread, in which I note that we never seem to call out failing white communities.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@OzarkHillbilly: “Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.” (Google tells me this was Benjamin Franklin).
William Casey, he knew how to keep a secret.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Renie: I doubt charges would be filed before the November election in any case.
OzarkHillbilly
@MazeDancer:
@MisterForkbeard:
I half expect charges to be dropped/penalty reduced with an enforceable legal agreement that he goes far far away or at least buries himself in the Marred a lago sandbox.
Leto
@Barbara:
There’s so much truth to this. Tell me the bare minimum I need to know in order to make useful decisions. It’s similar to how new commanders/officers would ask me, “Leto, how did you get this?” versus older set, “You got it? Good.”
The Moar You Know
@Betty Cracker: It’s all he has left. It’s all any of them have left. He may not technically be guilty of a crime, but he’s guilty of selling out our country and it’s all laid out for everyone to see.
Ruckus
@jonas:
These are not what you might call, the best people.
They think they are looking out for their country’s best interests. But being as they are actually fucking idiots who think that when it’s in their best interest – it’s in the country’s best interest. And it isn’t.
This is what republican politicians think about the country, it is in the best shape when they run it, when they make sure that the wealthy republicans make more money, some of which they manage to share with those republican politicians. Always legally of course. It is always about the money, getting the most of it in any way possible and keeping it in the same any way possible. Their best interest is the country’s best interest. Strange how that works out isn’t it? Strange how their best interest doesn’t do squat for the rest of humanity, only to the rest of humanity, isn’t it?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Elizabelle: I brought up education, since she knows I was professor. She nodded at what I said, but who knows. There’s time.
Nelle
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I can’t decide whether I want him to see justice or justice to be renditioned and we never hear of him again. Maybe renditioned would be justice? Paging Dick Cheney. It would be extraordinary if he were to be renditioned.
Ken
There were some rather grim jokes about that, around the time of his death.
Leto
@Nelle: I’ll let the lawyers step in on this one, but I think they would talk about the classification level in relation to National Defense Information, and how release of TS/SCI (grave, exceptional damage) impacts our national security.
What I’m waiting for is the subpoena of all Trumpov communication equipment. Computers, copiers, fax machines, cell phones, etc… and for them to start a forensic analysis to see how much of this information was copied/transmitted, and to whom.
RaflW
That last tweet, Conway said what I said last night in the overnight thread. The 60 tweet freakout was because for whatever reason, Fpotus’s team must have received some sort of advanced notice of the brief that broke like 12 hours later publicly.
Trump is not – despite Noem’s efforts to paint him thus – mentally unfit (I mean, he IS, but not legaly, just that sociopathic narcissists are unfit to be in office). His freakout shows that he knows he’s fk’d and is lashing out.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Leto: In the upper left of that picture, there’s something that looks like an external hard drive to me.
Steeplejack
@Citizen Alan:
Didn’t you have a job lined up in the Northeast and the trip back to Mississippi was going to be temporary? Probably I am misremembering.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
What do you mean he’s “not technically guilty of any crime”? That hasn’t been my impression; it’s clear as day he’s guilty of violating the Espionage Act, AFAIK. Am I missing somethingETA: NVM. Turley, not TFG. Thanks SiubhanDuinne
MisterForkbeard
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: That was ME. I was arguing that too – I don’t see how he goes to prison just from a logistical perspective.
I foresee some very special kind of limited house arrest. But Trump will absolutely get special treatment here, because it’s a very special case.
RaflW
@jonas: Yes. And former national security ‘hawks’ in the GOP will twist themselves in knots to defend the indefensible. Because they’ve all completely lost the ability to discern or chose right over wrong.
Cornyn, Graham, any of them. They’re all just fine selling out human intelligence assets, our best sigint and satellite surveillance, etc, to try to save Fpotus’s political life.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Renie:
mrmoshpotato
“But her emails!” screamed a bunch of stupid, shithead brats.
You dumb motherfuckers…
Paul in KY
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: SCI = Sensitive Compartmentalized Information
kindness
So going forward….we’re stuck with Trump’s illiterate and unwashed tribe of supporters on the bottom. They’re a problem in that they have big guns. They don’t threaten the Republic so much, just us. The money people that still support Trump, the Oligarchs (Kochs, Mercers, et al), they threaten our Republic. Their money dominates media and their Federalist Society judges rot the timbers of our Republic to the core. We’re stuck with them too (for now) but they need to be addressed or this will never end.
MisterForkbeard
@OzarkHillbilly: Honestly, I think the Feds would love a plea deal of some kind. Going through trial would be awful, and all you need is ONE trumper on the jury to have them nullify the verdict. And you know the rightwing would be pushing for that, egging it on and then declaring victory and martyrdom if it happened.
If they could get him to plea to obstruction and the equivalent of parole they’d probably take it in a flash.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
“The bad news is she thinks DeSantis is a good bet.”
The only thing that makes SFB bad news in her mind is that he got caught being himself and doing it illegally. death shit hasn’t gotten caught yet so he’s #1 on the hit parade. They do not want good, they want as much crap as they can get away with. The current day republican party has no morals or ideals (other than don’t get caught). Now in reviewing the last 60+ yrs of my life and the politics thereof I really don’t think that republicans were actually ever any different, they just didn’t say the stupid, hateful parts out loud. They do now.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
From the replies:
MisterForkbeard
@RaflW: They don’t have to twist themselves into pretzels. They can just say “Trump did something unwise, but he was railroaded and Hillary did much worse”. Their base will be peeved that they conceded anything but not enough to change any votes, and the media will start a lot of bothsidesing.
They know this because of the last 20 years. There is NO penalty for lying, being hypocritical, or a gigantic asshole if you’re a Republican. Only benefits.
Bill Arnold
@jonas:
J. Biden was one step ahead of D.J. Trump. On January 21, 2021, 12:00+10 seconds PM[1], he reclassified all documents improperly “declassified” by D.J. Trump, especially the ones that had been flown or were being flown to Mar-a-Lago. Biden did this with just a thought, and he did it in real time, not in attempted causality-violating time-traveler-mode like D.J. Trump.
I mean, that’s approximately as good an argument as that D.J. Trump declassified documents with his mind. And it is not falsifiable, so Trump’s argument is void.
[1] John Roberts swore J. Biden in like 12 minutes early.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The “slimy hack” in question is Jonathan Turley, not TFG.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MisterForkbeard:
If that plea could include barring him from holding office, elected or otherwise, I’d take it in a flash too
lowtechcyclist
@Ken:
I bet he doesn’t dirty his dollhands by operating a scanner or photocopier. I figure this is why he had the original documents: he wouldn’t spend hours scanning or copying them, and if he had a staffer do it, that’s one more person who would know what he was doing.
@lollipopguild:
Can’t forget Double Secret Probation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yup. Or a trumpy judge on appeal. And he will have, effectively, limitless financial resources. It always seems to me the people who are the loudest in demanding criminal prosecution are also the ones who seem to have convinced themselves that putting trump in jail is just a matter of Garland having ballz!
rikyrah
Yes.. complete self own![]()
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Hungry and Hopeful In DFW (@Kennymack1971) tweeted at 8:13 AM on Wed, Aug 31, 2022:
The Republicans are going to rage, throw out nonsensical conspiracy theories, and try everything they can to derail from the important questions like WTF was he doing with all this shit. And none of it will matter.
But never forget…. They did this to themselves.
(https://twitter.com/Kennymack1971/status/1564964671270125568?t=n8d9eRwfseHIOb73JlOPmg&s=03)
rikyrah
Bob Vulfov (@bobvulfov) tweeted at 6:56 PM on Tue, Aug 30, 2022:
white smoke has emerged from the chimney atop north hollywood high school, signaling that leonardo dicaprio has chosen a new girlfriend
(https://twitter.com/bobvulfov/status/1564764014672060418?t=2L9ZkoiE37k1JKPNA-P0pw&s=03)
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: Please don’t despair. I hear that Minnesota has an unemployment rate of something like 2.5%. If none of your legal jobs come through I bet you can find decent work up there even if it’s not exactly in your professional field.
Betty Cracker
@MisterForkbeard: You make a great point about potential jury nullification. Trump supporters have proven impervious to facts and willing to believe outlandish twaddle from ridiculous people — even on an issue that direct affects their own health. So, it would be child’s play to get them to ignore facts presented in a trial if you invoke the right tribal markers. I’m not sure what portion of the population is that hardcore, but my guess is around 30% or so. All you need is one out of 12.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ruckus: My impression is she didn’t know anything about DeSantis except what she gets from R news. She fumbled for his name and wasn’t sure I’d know it. I think it’s possible a lot of information about him would affect how willing to vote for him.
I think we forget how little most normies know.
rikyrah
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Darth Kriss (@insanityreport) tweeted at 6:22 AM on Wed, Aug 31, 2022:
Merrick Garland and the DOJ really let Trump, his attorneys and idiot Congress supporters walk into the most obvious trap and it’s hilarious to watch unfold.
Folks gonna owe Garland so many apologies
(https://twitter.com/insanityreport/status/1564936568288296961?t=McgPl4KjCYjWSnd2Vd1TyQ&s=03)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: Also, one thing I’m not clear on: Where would this trial take place? what’s the jury pool? the crimes were committed in DC and FL, no? I believe I read at one point the Miami US Attorney was leading…. something? trump would fight like hell to get any trial (yes, the horse is couple of miles back from that particular cart) to take place in south Florida.
Baud
@RaflW:
Absolutely did not happen.
Brachiator
Yeah, this is pretty much it. I see some stories that try to Wade into whether Trump invoked executive privilege. I see the GOP making fanciful claims that the Democrats are harassing Trump.
But the bottom line seems to be: a former president cannot keep or hold back documents that belong to the federal government.
Anything else is noise and misdirection.
Any Republican defending Trump has to explain why he or she thinks that Trump has a right to hold onto these documents. Otherwise, there is no reason for a Republican to be interviewed by the media or to make any statement.
Also, at least two possibilities.
Trump is an insecure baby who wants to wave around Top Secret documents to guests to show what a big man he used to be.
Trump is insane, cannot accept defeat and surrounds himself with stuff to prove that he is the president.
ETA. Side note. How often do former president’s deliberately withhold documents or other information that might help an incoming president with a foreign or domestic issue?
Paul in KY
@Kristine: They buried alot of meth with the dead mother in Shameless. That would be the level of sneakiness that TFG would strive for.
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: It’s not just that nothing Trump does is surprising, it’s reasonable to assume pretty much anything he does is with criminal intent. To some extent, Trump uses chaos, disorganization and his over the top persona as a cover, kind of like the guy who does a shitty job of cleaning the house to get out of housework.
I’m beginning to believe he held those documents for blackmail and bribe purposes. The feds appeared, at least initially, to be uncertain as to what all he took. Because of that, he didn’t do the obvious thing – copy them and give the originals back – because then the feds would know what he had, take steps to make it less valuable and be able to track a leak back to him if they found out that info was compromised. Instead, while he probably did make copies, he (1) made the feds request that he return them and (2) doled them out in dribs and drabs to see if they would back off. He made the feds sniff out what he had on the off chance they would fail to identify some of what was missing, which he could then keep and use. People focusing on his narcissism, vanity, etc., are barking up the wrong tree. This guy is a criminal to the core of his being.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I was just remembering how Sarah Doomizior was all like, “Don’t believe the propaganda!” when it came to Garland actually carrying out justice against Trump. Whatever happens will happen, but you can’t say he hasn’t plaid his cards right up to this point, especially looking back over the last year
Paul in KY
@jonas: Former deceased moles…
Elizabelle
@Leto:
I would love if foreknowledge that was coming was behind Trump’s furor yesterday.
It could take a while before that was public knowledge, right? (Although Trump would likely publicize it immediately.)
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Going to assume this is not the right-wing golfer Tom Watson.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t know where it would take place either. A South FL jury pool would be better for Trump than a DC one, but jury nullification is probably a risk in either place. I think a lot of people would be mad as hell if the DOJ lets Trump plead out, and that would be understandable, but it could be the best option. That said, since pleading out would entail admitting wrongdoing, it’s probably a moot point because Tangerine Baal never admits he was wrong.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Brachiator: “insane…” well,
I think Trump really in some sense believes that he’s entitled to do what he does. Like overturning the 2020 election, he himself believed it was possible and his co-conspirators (Eastman, Giuliani, et. al.) really intended their plan to work. That is, for Trump to have a second term despite losing.
It’s the “whatever works” approach. Trump carries it to an extreme but you see it in the GOP responses too.
That photograph causing all the whining is a perfect riposte.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Knowing his history, this is clearly his modus operandi.
different-church-lady
Wait… the framed TIME cover is of all the Democratic candidates for the nomination coming to take the presidency from Trump? And not only did he decide to have that framed, he decided to take it with him after defeat?
danielx
@MisterForkbeard:
Preferably the Big House located in Trinidad, Colorado.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@different-church-lady: He is on the cover.
rikyrah
Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) tweeted at 7:50 AM on Mon, Aug 29, 2022:
Republicans see government as a vehicle to transfer wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich.
So they get really, really angry when Democrats use government to do things to help regular people, like cut the cost of drugs or reduce student loans.
(https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1564234028315811842?t=7CfnBXotM2lDlgOKdgKokQ&s=03)
Hoodie
@Mr. Bemused Senior: It’s a particular form of entitlement that is strongly associated with sociopathy. Trump thinks that anyone who follows the rules – or at least lets the rules get in the way of his desires – is a sucker. This is a classic sociopathic criminal mentality.
different-church-lady
Dear Diary, today I learned that Aaron Burr was president.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): My problem with a plea bargain that barred trump from running for office is that his adherents would say this proved that this was the Biden administration’s intent all along, and that his criminal prosecutions were only a means to this end.
I’ve argued this question with my Atlanta friend. He still fears trump as a presidential candidate. I believe that as far as the general electorate goes, trump is a spent force.
Hoodie
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: With criminals you can pretty much assume that they will follow their MO.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady: I can’t find a date for that cover. Interesting that they put Biden and Harris at the front of the pack, which was…. not obvious at the time that cover was put together. It must’ve been while Sherrod Brown was a considering a run, which he passed on pretty early
Paul in KY
@Citizen Alan: I spent 8 months there back in 82. Was probably better back then. At least for a white visitor, that is…
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: What?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a lot of folks already do.
I’m confident of two things:
1) he won’t get them
2) he won’t give it a first, much less a second thought.
different-church-lady
@steppy:
You just know he’s gonna wave around another dozen docs he kept hidden in his bedroom, to prove he’s smarter than the FBI.
OzarkHillbilly
@MisterForkbeard: That’s my thinking too. Make the mess go away while ensuring trump can’t do it again.
Wapiti
@Betty Cracker: re: Turley’s tweet… The court, in this case, is a FedSoc judge, so the use of pictures suitable for public consumption *might* be needed get the bottom line across.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia:
#19.
JPL
The photograph was only released because trump asked for a special master. The whining about it today is silly, but it’s all they have.
SiubhanDuinne
@Paul in KY:
Nope. This one sounds pleasant and likeable:
(from his Twitter bio)
different-church-lady
@catclub:
DO NOT TAKE THE TRUCK ON STORROW DRIVE. I REPEAT: DO NOT TAKE THE TRUCK ON STORROW DRIVE!!!!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve seen a few of them respond with, “Well, Garland failed because Trump wasn’t immediately taken into custody when they found the stolen docs. Even if Garland filed charges against Trump tommorow he would still be too late.”
So no, they’ll just move the goalposts
Exactly
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: Haha
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: don’t take anything on Storrow Drive
Old School
So what do the letters mean? Does it describe the subject matter?
Edit: I see in one of the reply tweets that TK signifies that it was gathered by satellite.
Kropacetic
@zhena gogolia: Seconded
Ken
@rikyrah: From that same twitter thread: “At this point it’s so bad I’m not certain trumps attorneys are undercover agents.”
I’m hoping that thought gets into his head and starts bouncing around.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia:
Chances are anything you find on Storrow Drive is already crushed anyway.
zhena gogolia
@Ken: That should be “aren’t undercover agents”
SiubhanDuinne
@different-church-lady:
That struck me, too. But on reflection, I imagine he thinks that, since he “really won,”displaying that cover is like Give-‘Em-Hell-Harry holding up the “DEWEY BEATS TRUMAN” newspaper.
eversor
@Old School:
Talent Keyhole
germy shoemangler
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Have you seen this?
Ruckus
@Cacti:
“Never in the history of the republic have we had an ex-POTUS who was an overt national security threat.”
How do you know?
The only reason we know what we know is that SFB has to publicize his greatness at every turn, good or bad. Because he can do no bad, everything he does is first rate, top shelf, perfect. His narcissism will not let him see anything else and will not let him shut the hell up for 5 minutes. Everything done to him or said about him must be wrong, just ask him. In his mind, nothing he does is wrong, it can’t be wrong because he’s perfect. He has stepped upon himself with those golf spikes on, we can all see it, even if we really, really don’t want to, he can’t. And yes he’s been doing that his entire life, and not once has he been able to see what he’s done to himself. He just happened to be on a dramatically larger stage this time, and had sharpened those golf spikes so this time he’s done a lot more damage. To himself and to all of us.
RSA
Rudolf Hess spent decades in solitary confinement in Spandau. It would be expensive but not impossible.
Ken
@zhena gogolia: Yes, but I wasn’t sure of the etiquette for editing tweet quotes for grammar and spelling — which, now that I say it, would rank up there with the Augean Stables.
JaySinWA
@Baud: My guess would be the lawyer who signed the affidavit flipped and lawyered up. Someone told T the bad (for him) news. T’s freakout could just be logical conclusions from facts in evidence to his other lawyers.
The Moar You Know
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I meant Trump. He may well not be guilty of a chargeable crime, as there may not be laws to cover what he’s done. That there should be is obvious…now. I wouldn’t know; it’s going to take a very special breed of lawyer, prosecutor, and judge to make those calls.
OzarkHillbilly
It’s only a matter of time. This will not end well for somebody.
Paul in KY
@MisterForkbeard: He’s placed in special protective custody, with the agents as gatekeepers. Probably not that hard, IMO.
The agents will hate it as they will have to listen to him whine all day.
germy shoemangler
MrKite
@Roger Moore: A more chilling suggestion was made in the Twitter thread referenced above: That no one would question a foreign dignitary walking out of his office in Mar a Lago with a framed souvenir.
Roger Moore
@RaflW:
More precisely, they’ve become confused about what is right. They’ve decided the good of the party comes ahead of the good of the country. Everything else flows from that.
dmsilev
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
After WWII, the Allies locked Albert Speer up in his very own private prison for 20 years. The logistics are quite possible.
The Moar You Know
@Betty Cracker: they will also lie in a voir dire.
different-church-lady
@MrKite: Well, yeah, if someone’s gonna give you 2 billion dollars you gotta at least give them a “token” of appreciation!
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: Maybe Melanoma stored some of her keepsakes there as well…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Also, most dramatically illustrated by Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins, the sheer terror of the emptiness of their lives outside of elective office.
Lawrence O’Donnell took a two-by-four to Lindsey Graham last night, again. I wonder if he’s done and how far he’ll go.
different-church-lady
@dmsilev:
Especially with Speer being dead and all.
Ken
Oh, that’s OK then, because TFG revealed those capabilities years ago, when he tweeted a classified satellite photo of Iranian rocket facilities. There was a quick scramble to claim that TFG had used his mental powers to de-classify the photo before it was sent.
IIRC, it later came out that the tweet was sent from TFG’s unsecured cell phone, from inside a secure compartmented facility. As several of our valued jackals have noted recently, if they’d tried to bring a phone into a room like that, they’d still be scratching day-tallies onto the walls of their cell.
dmsilev
Baud
@dmsilev:
And if you have cameras, the ratings will be through the roof!
Paul in KY
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you for that info! Was pretty, very sure it was not the golfer one.
cain
@p.a.: Liz Cheney must be grinning ear to ear watching MAGA politicians get caught up in all of Trump’s hubris. Even her opponent is going to get tarr’d and feather – after all, if there are criminal prosecutions – it will at least move the independents decidedly away from these idiots.
Paul in KY
@SiubhanDuinne: He’s about that fucked up to think of it that way.
Geminid
@RSA: There’s nothing remotely impossible about rotating Secret Service teams in and out of a federal prison. They would need some dedicated space but trump might be the only prisoner on his cell block anyway.
I’m not too concerned about the mechanics of a prospective trump imprisonment, though. He might accept a plea deal before trial but I doubt that. In the more likely event that trump goes to trial, the trial prep, pretrial appeals, trial and post trial appeals will take a couple years or more. Although it may be a fascinating subject, I think the ways and means of imprisoning trump is a 2025 problem.
Maybe he’ll end up in the high security federal hospital/prison in Missouri. A Springfield jackal sounded very enthusiastic about the prospect!
Ceci n est pas mon nym
YouTube has been giving me a lot of suggestions of MSNBC clips, mostly from Ari Melber and Lawrence O’Donnell. This is one of my favorites.
cain
I think though we really should be scrutinizing the press. The FBI/CIA should be scrutinizing the press. There has to be some folks in big media that are in on this whole thing. Certainly the far right media has.
As Democrats, we should definitely not be giving any of the 24 hour news channel any kind of air. Tough sell I know.
Ken
Are there no gags?
Hmm, and could you make the argument that gagging him would be an issue of national security? Particularly if he went for a diminished competency defense? “Your honor, the risk of defendant blurting out classified information is extreme, especially as he did so before he allegedly became mentally incompetent…”
Paul in KY
@RSA: All to make sure he couldn’t blab about former Edward VIII and his wife being traitors. When he was about to be released, the British had him murdered (or executed).
Nothing much to be sad about in his death, just some juicy info about The Firm never saw the light of day.
cain
@Roger Moore: Yeh, but what’s the end game? You get into office and then what? It’s not you have much to do.. The only thing you can carp about is taxes – there is no policy to even focus on. You’re just a weight on a chair shouting at the clouds.
I guess it’s just grift. You’d think you’d get that just running for office and get paid by Koch money.
cain
@Matt McIrvin: So you’re saying if Trump turns his back on you and walks out – you’re declassified?
Ksmiami
@Dorothy A. Winsor: then she’s a fascist bitch who doesn’t deserve your kindness. Sorry, life’s too short to engage with Nazis
brantl
@Cacti: The only reason RayGuns wasn’t was because he couldn’t remember a damn thing.
Paul in KY
@Ken: Would love to see that! However, I guess the agents would have to get the clearances that would allow them to hear his ravings (or maybe have deaf agents in there! That would be very GOTish).
JWR
Whew! You guys had me all worried and sh*t about whether any of the stolen docs might still be classified. Now I know better. /s
Yep, we sure are lucky!
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
Did you see the video?
The right-wing snowflakes were stunned that folks were there to protect the show.
That they weren’t going to be allowed to bully those folks.
Marmot
@Ruckus:
They definitely think their best interests are the country’s. But respectfully, it’s not always about the money.
It’s about protecting the traditional social order — white over black, straight over gay, business over labor, christians over muslims (etc.), ex-high school football stars over college professors. Otherwise, it’s chaos! Crime! People demanding things instead of being quiet! Total societal breakdown!
They seriously believe this. It’s pre-cognitive, even. Some rulers are legitimate and others are clearly not. What! It’s just coincidence that the illegitimate ones are Black or female or non-Christian or some other weirdo! We need to go back to the values we had before this became a problem. “Stand on the tracks of history yelling ‘stop!'” /s
Money is power, so yeah, it plays a big big part.
Ken
@JWR: It occurs to me, if the service provider pulls the plug on TruthSocial because it hasn’t paid its bills for six months, they will probably be required to provide the DOJ with a dump of all messages, as potentially relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation.
The Lodger
@Ken: popcorn-worthy
Pop Secret, of course.
Elizabelle
I think it’s really important to push back on bullshit ideas like
First, that’s ridiculous. We’ve gone to the moon. We can incarcerate an elderly FPOTUS. Easily.
Think about who would benefit from shit ideas like that being “conventional wisdom.” We have DeSantis and Tom Cotton and others far more awful, in the wings. Following Orban’s playbook.
This is the time to make a stand. Do we have justice for all, or do the rich always get a pass?
At the moment, the gazillionaires are funding corrupt and bought politicians. What happens when they decide to start running, themselves? Or just paying their puppets’ legal bills, ad infinitum, because it’s a drop in the bucket given their wealth?
Are they all beyond the reach of the law? Because: money. Because: too hard. Because: political!
Think also of the very awful MSM coverage, by the networks, cable, by the big newspapers. Their owners really, really don’t want to pay taxes.
And they’re under the impression they can escape the awfulness that will follow if an even worse Trump successor gains power.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: “IF THE ZOO BANS ME FOR HOLLERING AT THE ANIMALS I WILL FACE GOD AND WALK BACKWARDS INTO HELL, THEREBY DECLASSIFYING THEM” –drilTrump
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: They could put medieval kings in prison–I just saw the cell the other day! Bizarre to think that a modern President is somehow more immune from punishment than they were.
Matt McIrvin
@Marmot: I’ve sometimes thought that if our right wing were *just* a bunch of self-interested greedheads, we’d be better off.
PPCLI
@RSA: I think Biden could do even better: Just say “This ‘magic declassify by thinking’ theory is nuts. But I do remember thinking, a few days after I became president, that anything the Former president had declassified without proper procedure ought to be reclassified again. So if the magic thinking theory is true, that must have reclassified them without me even realizing it! So those documents classified no matter what the Former President did. Wow, who knew I had that magic power?”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@germy shoemangler:
Haha, no! It’s true though, everyone knows what Dragon Ball is
Elizabelle
@Matt McIrvin: Good point.
Mostly, the “let’s settle for crumbs/we can’t expect anything will actually be done” here drives me to despair. It does not strike me as smart talk, or brave talk.
Marmot
@Matt McIrvin: You’re not wrong!
different-church-lady
@The Lodger:
I can’t figure out whether to award you the internets, or withhold your allowance.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah, but didn’t that come down to raw power grabs?
RSA
A bit more classification trivia:
To look at classified data (as a federal government civilian, at least), you have to meet three conditions: (1) you have the appropriate security clearance level, (2) you’ve signed a non-disclosure agreement that governs your behavior concerning the information, even after leaving the job, and (3) you have a need to know, where ‘”need-to-know” means a determination made by an authorized holder of classified information that a prospective recipient requires access to specific classified information in order to perform or assist in a lawful and authorized governmental function.’
About handling classified material, I was on loan to a DoD organization for a while, and our landing space was a couple of rooms in the Pentagon. We didn’t have any classified documents that I know of, but we still followed the standard precautions. You had to be admitted by an authorized person, rather than automated badge access. You had to leave your phone, laptop, writable storage media, smart watch, fitness band, camera, wireless headphones, etc. in a storage bin outside the door.
It’s almost shocking to see all those documents outside of a controlled space, knowing that anyone could have taken a look or even a copy. Who even knows if any are missing? I’m assuming Trump and his team bypassed checkout procedures when he got his hands on the documents originally.
different-church-lady
Nope, this is what wins the internets:
Rabble Arouser
@Barney: Some clever wag came up with NARA Lago, and it stuck with me.
Uncle Cosmo
@OzarkHillbilly:
TwoThree true stories for your oedification:The second:
The last:
(No, not “Order of the British Empire,” for dogsake: Overcome By Events!)
Paul in KY
@Matt McIrvin: Edward II, Richard II and Henry VI were all in prison for a time. All 3 were later murdered/executed
Edit: Richard I was also imprisoned for about a year in Central Europe, before being bailed out by England.
SiubhanDuinne
@Uncle Cosmo:
Those are all really great stories!
SiubhanDuinne
@Paul in KY:
Also Charles I (later than medieval, of course).
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: On the English side, Edward II was deposed for extrajudicial killings of nobles who had opposed some of his more unusual advancements of nobody sex partners to positions of great power and just a general unwillingness to take being King of England seriously.
Richard II was deposed for abusing his power in regards to attainders/executions made against political opponents and also his concept of kingship as more in line with that of a Pharaoh and not with someone who must abide by the principles of the Magna Charta.
Henry VI was deposed for gross inability to perform his duties and thus letting his underlings run wild & loot the treasury.
Tony Jay could chime in and correct any mistakes I’ve made.
Paul in KY
@SiubhanDuinne: Oh yeah! Party boy Charlie. Had forgotten about him!
Soprano2
@MisterForkbeard: I think a permanent ban from all social media, actually all of the internet, and house arrest. If he couldn’t post anything online or have any rallies, that would feel like torture for him.
geg6
@The Moar You Know:
IANAL, but I’m pretty sure career DOJ officials and high level FBI agents know exactly which crimes he’s being accused (and most certainly guilty) of since they referenced them in the search warrant and the affidavit. I’m pretty confused by your confusion on this.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And it was a thing of beauty.
JPL
Wellstar is considering closing Atlanta Medical Center. The hospital services those without insurance. This is what happens when the government decides not to expand Medicaid. It’s not just rural hospitals that will close.
Uncle Cosmo
@Betty Cracker: Might end up with a nolo contendere plea a la Agnew, i.e., not admitting guilt but not contesting the accusation, in exchange for restrictions the Government considers necessary.
In Agnew’s case, the MD USA’s office was sure it had a slamdunk case & was hot to send Spiro up the river, but was overruled by USAG Eliot Richardson. With the chances of Nixon’s impeachment on the rise, Richardson felt it was most important to get an all-but-convicted petty felon out of the line of succession to the Presidency. As a result Agnew resigned the Vice-Presidency in exchange for avoiding jail time – and was never again a significant figure on the national political stage.
If feasible and enforceable, I could see something similar for Cheeto Benito Trumpolini, barred from ever seeking political office in exchange for no jail time. I wouldn’t like it but I could see it. I’m just not sure that’s enough.
The Lodger
@cain: If the FBI/CIA starts scrutinizing the press, and the press finds out, then in unimaginably short time, the Feds will stop being seen as the good guys. Even with the press we’ve got. We have been there. That is why Anonymous were seen in a favorable light as long as they were.
geg6
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Not really. I have no idea what it is.
Paul in KY
@geg6: I think it is an anime cartoon popular with the youts.
Heidi Mom
@Paul in KY: IIRC my War of the Roses reading, Edward IV was deposed, held captive, escaped to France and/or the Low Countries, and returned to reclaim the throne.
SiubhanDuinne
@Soprano2:
House arrest comes with a 24/7 ankle monitor, right? Please tell me it does.
geg6
@Paul in KY: Well, I hate anime (and, basically, almost all types of animation), in addition to being an old.
In defense of being an old, I hated animation even when I was a child. The only cartoons I would sit through were Bugs Bunny, the Road Runner and Peanuts.
germy shoemangler
@geg6:
No Fleischer brothers Popeye?
Ken
Well, if we can’t have a shock collar triggered by being within 100 meters of any electronic device…
Roger Moore
@RSA:
I don’t think that will make a huge difference. The really important stuff is tightly controlled. When someone took a copy of one of those documents for Trump to read, it had to be checked out, and when it was returned it was checked back in. [ETA: and the people who did this were not Trump’s personally appointed cronies; they were career government service people.] This is document control 101*. They can get a pretty good idea of what Trump took with him by seeing which documents have missing copies. I bet there are people doing a physical inventory of classified documents that were taken to Trump just to be sure.
*Seriously. I know about this stuff from completely non-classified applications. I refuse to believe TS/SCI documents get lesser treatment.
Elizabelle
@Ken: I’m holding out for the shock collar.
And my first preference is a cell. It can be comfortably furnished (a la Al Capone’s). But. A cell.
Roger Moore
@Uncle Cosmo:
Yeah, the “feasible and enforceable” part is going to keep that from happening. The closest I think we could get would be an informal agreement to let Trump leave the country and live in exile with the understanding he’d be prosecuted if he ever returned. I don’t think he’d be able to run an effective election campaign from overseas, but you’d still have the problem of him being allowed back if a Republican were ever president.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Uncle Cosmo: We used to live in a neighborhood outside Baltimore, and the NSA employees would always tell you where they worked by not telling you.
You would ask, and they would stop cold, look suddenly nervous, look around and hurriedly whisper “Department of Defense”.
Their employer should have done just a little more training on how to give the innocuous answer innocuously.
The Lodger
@different-church-lady: I swear I was on my third read of that quote before I realized he wasn’t referring to the bar exam.
(“Has to be Florida.”)
stinger
@MisterForkbeard: I don’t know the statute or regs for the Secret Service, but they wouldn’t have to be behind bars with him, any more than they currently have to get in the hot tub with him. They just have to make sure he’s secure.
Sorry for the UGH mental image.
Ruckus
@Marmot:
Not saying that racism and gender do not enter into it. Not at all.
I am saying that it’s money that plays a major role. The money is used to rile up the masses with racism and gender issues, among others. Without the money and what it buys (air time and people to scream about bullshit) there would just be yelling and screaming. It’s the money that buys the hate over and above the normal level and organizes that hate. We obviously had hate long before man could speak languages, it is a built in emotion, so hate can be heard in grunts and tone, it protects us from doing things like eating extremely acidic stuff. But like most things within humanity it can be easily misused and abused and that doesn’t really take money. Money just makes it easier and gives some/many an excuse and a better ability to get their hate on, or even easier, pay others to rile up the masses about things they hate. A long time ago very few people had enough money to buy hate. Now a lot of people do. And they are willing to spend it. And do.
Anonymous At Work
Just for a parallel, the stakes were lower but the revelations out-pacing defenders’ ability to lie about revelations is what did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson in as British Prime Minister. The defenders got sick and tired of having their lies on his behalf undone by the afternoon. Sadly, the British lack a FOX News because they work hard to keep the news coverage based on “facts”, so the US is likely to endure problems for longer.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
Accepting a plea would mean he is capable of listening to someone tell him he’s wrong, and agree with that.
Anyone with his level of narcissism is not going to accept that. He’s incapable of that. Absolutely incapable.
Citizen Alan
@Steeplejack: I had an interview for a job in Newark that I thought went very well, but never heard back. Per OSCAR, the job is still open even though the deadline for applications ended last month. /shrug/ I have applied for some other jobs in other states, but part of me wants to stay here in my mom’s place and never leave the house until after the Nov elections and then make a decision as to whether to just liquidate everything and leave the country. I’m updating my passport just in case.
Uncle Cosmo
@SiubhanDuinne: When I joined Westinghouse Defense in 1982 I had to fill out the forms for a SECRET clearance. I said to my new boss, “Am I going to have a problem because I spent over a year in college hanging out with a Trotskyite organization?” They asked if I’d ever officially joined anything or signed anything. I had not. They told me not to worry.
A couple of months later they told me there was “a problem” with my clearance application. Nothing to do with Trotsky & Co., though – they needed me to sign release forms authorizing my former psychotherapists to discuss my therapy. I suppose they needed to make sure I wasn’t a threat to “go postal” in the office…
(Some years later my supervisor at a different company also doing defense work told me the only entry on my resume that bothered him was the two summers in college I’d worked as a letter carrier. I shot back ;^p that I’d left the Post Office long before firearms training was part of the job requirements… And frankly he was fortunate – the barstid was a card-carrying sociopath and I’m somewhat surprised no one tried to take him out. I still sometimes explain to people that the only reason one of us didn’t end up dead and the other in prison for the murder – and it’s a tossup as to who’d have been the perp and who the corpse – was that I was on Prozac at the time. An exaggeration, but only a slight one.)
Citizen Alan
@Betty Cracker: Honestly, I think if we ever got anywhere near the point of actual charges being filed and the possibility of arrest, Trump would be dead the next day, whether through suicide or “suicide.”
Paul in KY
@Heidi Mom: Sorta forgot about that, as Edward’s imprisonment was so lame. You are correct, though. He was imprisoned for a time during the readeption of Henry VI.
sdhays
@MisterForkbeard: Who would want to be on that jury? If any inkling gets out that you were on it, and Trump is convicted, you and your family are at risk for the rest of your life.
It’s worse than being on a mob trial because there’s only a few mobsters who are keen to get at the jury. Here, there would be millions, and while 99% of those millions are going to try to physically harm you and your family, 1% of one million is 10k. And the others are plenty happy to harass and intimidate you and your family.
Because they’re fucking terrorists.
Elie
Do the Republican Magots actually believe that there won’t be payback from our foreign allies who have their assets and capabilities exposed by this fool??? Do you think that didn’t happen? Don’t you think that their damage assessments of known losses already have knowledge of what the moron did? Do you think that his worthless ass and those of the assholes who facilitated his actions to do this won’t pay a price??? Do they think that they will be able to somehow mitigate or prevent bad outcomes for these assholes all around? Most importantly and regretabley — for our country? I tell ya, I wan’t Lindsay Graham and the other butt licking morons to pay a heavy price for their assistance to this repugnant and repulsive creature…
Steeplejack
@Citizen Alan:
Thanks for the update. I hope things pan out.
kalakal
@Paul in KY: Henry VI was incompetent but he was murdered while imprisoned as he was the head of the Lancastrian faction in the Wars of the Roses. The Yorkists kept him alive until they’d eliminated more competent successors eg his son Edward then he was quietly killed to remove him as a rival to Eddy IV.
Edward V disappeared, presumed murdered ( The Princes in the Tower)
Charles I was imprisoned and then beheaded after restarting and losing the English Civil Wars
William ll died in a hunting ‘accident’
prostratedragon
@MrKite: Or a member of the off-season caretaker staff.
Lauryn11
@Barney:
@Barney: #NARALago is the best one I’ve heard, courtesy of @MuellerSheWrote.
J R in WV
@geg6:
Wait! No Flying Squirrel, Moose, Boris and Natasha, etc??? Was my only favorite cartoon show!!!
Paul in KY
@kalakal: Agree Henry VI was murdered while imprisoned in Tower. A agreement had been reached that he would live his days out imprisoned and Edward IV broke that agreement by having him killed.
Pretty sure Richard III (in one of the first of his many boneheaded decisions while king) had his 2 nephews murdered.
Paul in KY
@J R in WV: I never liked those too much. Thought the cartooning was so crude. Loved the Loony Tunes ones from their heyday.
lowtechcyclist
@OzarkHillbilly:
Kari Lake: “They took down our Flag and replaced it with a rainbow”:
Yeah, Kari, and y’all took the U.S. flag and turned into that ugly greyed-out abomination that’s supposedly about supporting the cops, which you only do anyway when they’re harassing, arresting, or shooting Those People. But we saw how well your kind really supported the cops on January 6th of last year.
At least the rainbow flag is pretty, and at least we are behind its message all the time.
ETA: Forgot that I was reading a dead thread.