I just read this comment from JoyceH, and it makes the perfect introduction to the post I was already putting together!
For those who are thinking of moving to a different country because of what’s happening here, here’s my take. Authoritarianism is on the rise worldwide. If it’s going to be turned back, it will be turned back here. And if we don’t do it here, no place is safe.
I read this great article over the weekend. I have no idea who linked to it! (h/t EmanG)
Biden’s Philly Speech Will Be a Turning Point for America — And the World
Some Speeches Change History. This Was One of Them.
by umair haque
Last night, Joe Biden gave a speech that’s going to change America — and the world. Yes, really. You’re used to hearing me full of doom and gloom — but that’s not for effect. I call it like it is. And this speech? It was a pivotal moment in the history of the 21st century. History will remember it in a certain way: as a turning point, that altered the grim political trajectory the world was — until this moment — helplessly on.
Yes, it’s that big. Doubt me? Good. Let me make my case, beginning with the Big Picture, the world, and then we’ll come back to America.
For the last decade or so, the world has been in a strange, eerie place. For economists and observers of social collapse like me — it’s been the 1930s, redux. Across every corner of the globe, nationalist movements arose — and then quickly metastasized into worse. In some places, like India, they became hyper-religious movements. In some, like Britain, they became xenophobic movements of self-destruction, culminating in the utter jaw-dropping folly of Brexit. Across Europe, the worst ills returned — Neo-Nazis in the Bundestag, fascists with a polite smile making stunning gains in Italy and France.
And these movements of hate and spite and violence all looked up to one country as a leader: America. Because there, things had gone so far that full blown neo-fascism now occupied the Oval Office. Back in those days — now the mid to late 2010s — seasoned observers warned that we were beginning to see the growth of genuine fascism, from the scapegoating to the crimes against humanity. Nobody much listened in America. It couldn’t happen here. Meanwhile, the nationalist-populist movements of the world were now taking cues from Trumpist America. If America could fall to fascism — well, anything was possible, the supremacists of the world reasoned.
Until Joe Biden got on a stage in Philadelphia and let it rip. He didn’t mince words. He told the story exactly — exactly — the way that it needed to be told, in the terms that people needed to hear, and in the form that respected history.
What did he have to say? He made basically four points.
Number one, the rise of this form of politics — violence, intimidation, hate, scapegoating, Big Lies, rage, a vitriolic rage at the values of democracy itself — was not normal. Not in a democracy.
Because, two, it was inimical to democracy — this was how modern societies plunged backwards into chaos and ruin.
That meant, three, that fighting this form of politics, rejecting it, wasn’t a partisan issue of left and right at all — but about coming together to defend democracy itself.
And four, that was every sane and thoughtful person’s not just choice, but responsibility. Their duty. To whom? To history. To futurity. And to each other.
Beautiful. Elegant. Powerful. True.
Read the whole thing. I agree that this speech – and Biden taking taking this threat head on – can be a game changer.
What say the rest of you?
West of the Rockies
Thank you again, WG, for an optimistic post. Eeyores abound. Eeyore-ism is no political philosophy, at least not a practical, sustainable, winning one.
I did my History Masters research on Germany in the 1930s. I spotted the fascism in the MAGA crowd some time ago. I thought it was just a mental aberration in yet another American fringe group.
But I started paying more attention to Europe when Russia invaded Ukraine. I was shocked to see authoritarianism showing up everywhere. Echoes of the whole western world in the 1930s!
Umair’s essay is right on.
I just spent a fair amount of time sorting through the “Bullshit Ruling from the MAGA Judge” posting for the inevitable “the doomed’s baked right in!” takes. I personally am gonna wait until either the Doomers give us a list of what the next steps are to fix this, or until Omnes or Baud tells us all it’s time to sell everything and catch the Lisbon plane. In the meantime, donate, act, and vote. We are NOT on the ropes.
Sometimes the long view, rather than bringing one to stew in heavily edited nostalgia, is to focus one’s attention on things that aren’t normal and cannot be ignored.
Reagan and Biden presidented at similar ages and Reagan tried his damnedest to drag us back to 1946 1/2–his version of it. Biden is trying to return us to modernity, fairness, decency. We’re lucky to have him at this moment.
I would never tell you to not do that. Lisbon is lovely.
@Baud: “Lisbon is lovely.”
Fully recovered from the 1755 earthquake I trust?
Umair expresses exactly the way I felt when I heard that speech. Electrified. Thinking it’s about time someone spoke out. Hopeful.
Speaking as someone actively looking for the exits, I think you have to also understand the motivation that school shootings and gun culture also provide for parents of youngsters. Regardless of how the fight against fascism goes (and I agree that it is worldwide), as a parent I do not see the pervasiveness of guns in the US as likely to abate in my kiddo’s childhood and that remains a pretty strong push factor. Just my two cents.
@Layer8Problem: Y’all want to go to Lisbon. Me? I’m catching the next Finnair plane out of Sea-Tac and setting up shop in Helsinki. Okay so it’s right next to Russia but if Finland is learning anything from Ukraine it’s that Winter War II: Electric Boogaloo will be just as bad if not worse for the Russian Army.
This reminds me of the movie Casablanca, where refugees wanted to escape to Lisbon, and then continue on to America and safety.
But by the end of the film, there was the realization that the fight was just beginning.
I liked Biden’s speech. I hope that it will be sufficiently inspiring. It has already annoyed the MAGA dopes. Good start.
@Layer8Problem: I’ve never been to Portugal (I’ve hardly been anywhere), although I’ve heard that it’s lovely. However, it should be kept in mind that Portugal, like Spain, was ruled by literal old-school fascists for about forty years until the late seventies. In other words, there is no safe haven anywhere from the tide of fascism. It has to be fought, like it or not.
@mali muso: You are making a good decision. And you would remain an American citizen, living abroad, right? Which means you can vote in presidential elections, and I think possibly federal elections too. Make the decision that is best for your family. Nothing is irreversible.
Except losing a family member. And it could be marvelous for your little one to have career options in the EU as well.
@Brachiator: It’s pretty much what I was thinking. In Casablanca the Lisbon plane’s the first step to America, IF you can get on it. If the bad guys win here, it’s where lots of us (except Yutsano :-) ) are figuring on going. But in the end a broken idealist realizes that the fight doesn’t end and every scrap and skirmish counts, at home, in Portugal, or at the Free French garrison in Brazzaville.
What was Hillary Clinton, chopped liver?
(Obama himself actually minced no words in 2016. But when Trump won, he basically decided to live in hope during the transition–hard not to since he was literally the outgoing President, and unlike Trump, he wanted to observe the protocols. And there wasn’t much from him after that.)
Let’s be honest. We can fight from wherever we are. We all have social circles, and we all have communication abilities.
WRT Spain and Portugal’s fascist past: believe me. They still remember it. And the young people know about it. I don’t get the impression they are willing to have it back. Nor do they have a sense of invulnerability and exceptionalism that is found among those with blinders on here.
@Matt McIrvin: I didn’t like the ignoring of Hillary and the dissing of Obama. And Gorbachev, much as I appreciate him, was no god. Otherwise good.
I understand Joe gave another good speech today.
In addition, access to free or reasonably priced education and health care is generally better outside of the US. Abortion rights too after Dobbs.
@Brachiator: I feel that the Dark Brandon, “Have some classified documents, Trump rally attendees!”, and other things are pushing back. It helps to have cheerleaders for our side. W was one and used the skills. DJT was an actor and knows how to rile up an audience. Biden, Fetterman, Jayapal, AOC and others understand the importance of reaching an audience. We seem to be turning a corner.
Next we need to demand better, infinitely better, from the media.
Good essay, but his claim that no politician warned us seems to ignore this:
“Donald Trump is attacking everything that has set our country apart for 240 years. After spending his entire campaign attacking one group of Americans after another — immigrants, African Americans, women, POWs, Muslims, people with disabilities — now his final target is democracy itself.” — Hillary Clinton, 2016
Of course it would have been nice if our MSM had aired the actual speech and not just a lot of bullshit both-sider hot takes about the speech.
The old people, though… I stumbled into a nest of Spanish Franco-nostalgics a little while ago while I was poking around YouTube. Was looking up freaky old 1970s motion graphics from TVE, the Spanish national television network (in the late 70s they were doing all this wonderful, weird stuff for interstitials and sign-on/sign-offs and such). But I ended up on a black-and-white recording of the TV signoff from the Franco era, with this big picture of the kindly Generalissimo, and the comments were full of these geezers complaining that the young people have no idea how wonderful it was back then. Peace, order, none of these problems we have today…
@mali muso: Yeah, that is a completely different factor than the not-so-semi-fascism. I don’t believe that JoyceH was making a judgment about that, either.
That the GOP had turned to fascism has been evident for a couple decades, but the ‘experts’ kept saying it couldn’t possibly be fascism because of the lack of organized political violence on the GOP’s part. When the advent of Trump also brought with it organized GOP political violence, the ‘experts’ still refused to call it fascism, more in fear of themselves being labeled extremists I suspect than anything else. At no other time and in no other place has Upton Sinclair’s observation been so apt: ”It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” And so many are still so unwilling to understand this existential challenge to the nation.
President Uncle Joe has been on a fabulous roll lately. Our MSM continues to intentionally miss the points Uncle Joe makes and calls him bad because they insist on being primadonna idiots.
@zhena gogolia: Oops, I screwed up then. I didn’t check Biden’s schedule this morning, thinking it’s a holiday, he won’t have anything scheduled.
I knew he was going to be in PA and there was talk of him speaking, but for some reason I didn’t put that together with TODAY! oh well
I found that short video so uplifting! I know it was sad that the attendees were mostly like “oh, okay!” but I still loved that the fellow was doing it, and I so liked his style!
Even the dropping of the “classified” documents on the ground was perfection.
We’ll see if it’s enough. It took winning a really big war to create a unified twentieth-century American identity. I would contend that we need a new identity for this century around which to coalesce and to commit ourselves. I don’t know how we do that, because i think it requires broader prosperity. We’ll see.
@zhena gogolia: If Biden is, in fact, a Gorbachev figure, we’re fucking doomed. Not sure how far he wants to take that analogy.
@Dan B: Do you think if Biden called out the media for their part in this… that they would treat him any worse than they already do?
@Matt McIrvin: On a walking tour of Seville I was on a few years back, the young guide answered someone’s question about how the Spanish feel about the Franco years with a strongish recommendation to take care about how you phrase the question and to know your audience when you ask. It seemed like it was still a touchy subject.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!
The Moar You Know
The basic point is correct; stop it here or it does not get stopped. The analogy with Germany in the thirties is flawed – it would have to be, this is almost a century later – but still essentially correct.
Yes. It’s coming from a somewhat different direction and perspective, but this is pretty much a direct hit on the spirit of what I was trying to describe in The Resumption of History. And yes, while we are in Zelenskyy’s debt for recalling us to our obligations, it is here in the US that the counteroffensive against illiberalism must be organized and led. No other nation on Earth can perform this necessary task. This is our sacred duty.
@WaterGirl: Maybe we shouldn’t leave all the calling out to Biden!
@kindness: they don’t realize that they’ll be first against the wall or out the windows if MAGA wins.
@WaterGirl: We do have a history of being too focused on the president to do things.
@UncleEbeneezer: The more I read that article, the more the erasure of Hillary Clinton from it angers me.
I don’t regard her as any kind of perfect politician. But she was saying all this stuff in 2016, kept saying it all through Trump’s time in office. What did all these Internet lefties worried about fascism and jaded about Democrats do about it? They fucking hated her, were convinced that she was some kind of crypto-fascist herself if you could just find the sinister angle hidden in her words.
It also makes me less convinced that a speech can change the world. I mean, mentioning the Basket of Deplorables was supposed to have been the gaffe that destroyed her campaign.
@Ksmiami: The MSM has terminal High Schoolitis in that they dream of being in the In Crowd. No doubt none of them were earlier in life. Those sad folk are eating this stuff up getting really high on their own blatherings.
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, and Obama did, too. Perhaps not as starkly? But timing is everything.
@Suzanne: One speech can never be enough. But it can be a turning point, an inflection point, a game changer.
@Matt McIrvin: I think it’s so interesting that many of the comments that are being expressed are picking on one small thing or another that they disagree with, rather than being overall impressed or inspired or appreciative that someone put it all together and acknowledged the bigger points.
And by interesting I mean interesting, but also kinda sad that our go-to is to pick at lack of perfect agreement.
Totally. Man, if I had school age kids right now, I don’t know what I’d do!
BTW, does anyone else think we might be turning the corner on guns? We actually have politicians, including Biden, calling for the outright ban of assault weapons, which I think has been rather verboten for years now.
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, the premise that no one noticed or warned us about this shit until last week makes it difficult for me to pay attention to anything else he has to say. And the turning point was Joe Biden’s election in 2020 and the Democrats holding the House and retaking the Senate. This speech may be important and something they’ll read about in history books, but this massive battleship of a country doesn’t turn on a dime. It’s been turning for quite some time:
These are just the highlights. Schrodinger’s cat made a very insightful comment months, if not a couple years, ago that has stuck with me: for all the bad that’s been going on in this country, the opposition (the Democrats) to that bad has been a lot more successful here than most other places.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Thanks WG for this uplifting post!
I’ve been on vacation for the past few days in Gatlinburg like I mentioned a few weeks back. It’s been…quite an experience. I hadn’t been back in over 12 years. There were always those little souvenir shops that sell T-shirts and the like along the streets. They sell these reactionary shirts now; shit like “If you have a problem with this flag, I’ll help you pack.” sometimes with the Confederate Battle Flag in place of the American one. “Fuck Joe Biden” and variations of that abound. There was an even two “Trump Stores” in the area, one in Gatlinburg and the other in Pigeon Forge. It was disgusting; Trump’s name had the American flag imposed over the store front letters. Even used his smirking image giving a thumbs up as apart of the sign.
Plenty of morons sporting the “Grunt Style” t-shirts walking around too. Y’know when you go on vacation, you try to escape heavy topics like politics and the daily grind of your life. 😮💨
Maybe my memories are fuzzy, but I don’t remember this shit being this prevalent 10-12+ years ago
@WaterGirl: There are ten of us older gay couples at the ocean this weekend and they all loved the “Classified documents” prank, especially the “Shit, shit , shit! Oh, I declassified them.” bit.
Wellllll, but Gorbachev had a lot less to work with than Biden does. The Russians of that day had absolutely no history of, or expectation of, personal liberty and individual rights. They’d been suppressed, oppressed, and cannon-fodderized by whoever was in power, whether Cossack or Commissar, for at least a millennium. Whereas Biden? He’s got US!
@Carlo Graziani: I believe David Muir’s interview of President Zelenskyy will this air this evening on ABC World News Tonight. It ought to be good.
@WaterGirl: Yeah, let’s hope. Biden is really trying to separate the Republican identity into two halves, basically for the purpose of letting the “mainstream Republicans” separate themselves without humiliation. An off-ramp, if you will. Creating headspace for an idea is a critical step.
@WaterGirl: Yup. The big difference is that more people are open to hearing it now. In 2016 it was “here’s where this could be heading” but now we have 6 years of seeing evidence of those warnings coming true. It’s much harder to deny even for less-engaged voters. Doesn’t make Biden’s speech any less important but it does show that a lot of people (probably including the author) didn’t appreciate/heed warnings from Obama and Hillary. Also I don’t really think Hillary could have made this the central part of her messaging. Just look at how her fairly anodyne comment about Deplorables was treated.
@JoyceH: We used to have an outright ban on assault weapons, that Senator Biden sponsored and pushed through.
Then those fuckers in the senate wouldn’t vote to renew it.
Yeah, let’s put a “sunset” rule on all the good things we do!!! //
@Layer8Problem: I have heard that myself. That the south of Spain runs more conservative; weirdly, much like our country. I think you’ll be safe in Catalonia though. Catalunya.
James E Powell
My response to her original post: Joyce H Johnson is right!.
This is, after all, our country. Like Lincoln said, like FDR said, and like LBJ said. If things are broken, we fix them.
Start with winning the next election.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Baud: doctors describe his condition as “stable.”
@WaterGirl: I believe calling out the media is our job. We’re the consumers who must demand better product. Lis Smith calls out the media moguls hiring inexperienced young journos for the lack of clear analysis, failure to notice bullshit and lies, and stenographer, in her book. She also describes how politicians media shops can push back.
Going to be an interesting Fall. Not long after the Dodgers beat the Mariners in the World Series and Halloween, there will be the midterms, which will probably piss off those that have been promised a Red Wave that just ain’t happening (ha, ha, TRICK, motherfuckers), followed closely by at least the beginning of the end of the Trump Saga, one way or another…
… but I have my stockpiles in place (popcorn, not ammo), so I’m ready.
Mike in NC
After hearing what Joe Biden said in Philadelphia, the Fat Orange Clown immediately needed to change his Depends. He’s getting closer and closer to that incapacitating stroke.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Also to add to that excellent list:
7. A Democrat won the Alaska House seat for the first time in over 50 years
8. Kansas voters protected abortion rights by a very large margin in what is usually a low-turnout primary election
Still, though, it bothers me that we lost so many seats and failed to pick up so many in 2020. Plus Virginia in 2021. The fact that this happened and that Joe Biden still won suggests a lot of ticket splitting was going on. In other words, voters wanted Trump gone but were just fine with other Republicans, not seeing thag they’re one and the same. Hopefully, this year turns out differently. The evidence so far seems to be pointing towards an atypical midterm election in our favor. Fingers crossed and putting in the work to make it a reality
@sdhays: I think it would be foolish to disregard the whole thing because he oversimplified something in the article.
But we all make our on choices, so go for it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Isn’t Muir kind a pseudo right winger? That’s what I’ve heard anyway
@Dan B: Yeah that was awesome!
He shouted “DECLASSIFY!” as he waved his arm over them, as if he had a magic wand. Too funny!
If you have a link for that, I would love to watch it again!
@Geminid: Do you know if it will be live-streamed? I can do a post if it will be.
@Mike in NC: Do you have a link to Biden’s speech in Philly?
Woohoo, hit the Harbor Freeway (110). At least the humidity is reasonable today.
Dorothy A. Winsor
And then Biden scrunched up his eyes, sent brainwaves to Florida, and said “CLASSIFY!”
@WaterGirl: I don’t think anyone disagrees with his overall points, we’re just tired of people (even on our side) constantly overlooking things that Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, Frank and other mainstream Dems did, in fact do. It’s a really common practice among progressive journalists and that’s what is setting off all our radars. I don’t know enough about this author but this piece has more than a whiff of that.
Also, how does someone write this piece about important, meet-the-moment speeches without mentioning Obama’s historic speech about Race in America? It just seems fishy…
I agree with many of your other points, but much of the media is largely a lost cause, at least for now. The best of them do not recognize potential danger. The worst will be happy to kiss up to authoritarians.
@WaterGirl: The least Trump could do is get a glowing declassify orb like ths nutty Saudi thing. “I’ll put the classy back into declassyfy, believe me.”
@WaterGirl: Dont know how to copy links on my phone, sorry. I’m doing hors d’ouevres for ten this eve plus corn and dessert. Radio silence commences.
@Mike in NC: I thought I had found the Philly the speech on youtube, but that was Biden in Milwaukee today, not in Philly.
@Suzanne: I agree. Biden is making space for “not all Republicans” as he calls out the “ultra-MAGAs”.
@UncleEbeneezer: Eh. I get that everyone’s been saying this stuff, but to an extent, it only really matters when people are ready to hear it. People weren’t ready or willing to hear the truth from HRC. It wasn’t the right time. We’ve now all witnessed an attack on our Capitol and refusal to accept an election loss. “We the People” are more ready now.
Blimey, only three o’clock and it’s 111.
For me personally the time to choose the exit ramp was when the unthinkable happened in 2016. And I seriously considered it. I actually did mental calculations of the stuff I could fit into my car if I had to leave for Canada. I did not arrive at my decision to stay put lightly.
I am not going anywhere. I just returned from 24 day trip to India.The trip has cemented my resolve, that the decision that I took in January 2017 to become a citizen was the right one.
If the United States falls to the forces of fascism nowhere else is going to be safe. So we must fight to stop that from happening.
@kindness: The President and Congressional Democrats really have been on a roll lately.
I think Wednesday, July 27 was a turning point. That’s when the Senate passed the CHIPS+ Bill, and then Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin surprised us all by announcing an agreement on a reconciliation bill. On Friday the 29th, House Democrats along with 24 Republican defectors passed the CHIPS Bill, and that Sunday the head of Al Quaeda got shredded in Kabul. The next week Senate Republicans blew their own toes off with their petty and futile obstruction of the PACTS bill that will aid injured veterans.
The winning in Congress has continued. Inflation numbers have dropped and employment has stayed strong since.
The shift in mood after that July Wednesday was dramatic. It seemed like the sun had come out after months of gloomy weather, and now it’s still shining.
@schrodingers_cat: I was wondering whether you were held up there. Welcome back!
@kindness: they suck and do not inform anyone of anything- and worse yet they don’t know history, economics, science- anything Villago delenda est… and hurry up
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): “Why I’m a patriot too! HANG JEFF DAVIS FROM A SOUR APPLE TREE…”
@Layer8Problem: I have been sick with a bad cold since I returned. I came back on the 30th
The Thin Black Duke
Let’s see how those white suburban women vote in the midterms. Old bad habits die hard. Hopefully Dobbs is the game changer.
@Geminid: That was when the Dark Brandon memes started up, wasn’t it?
Trump now claiming Cannon’s corrupt decision justifies his reinstatement as POTUS.
STOP GETTING MY HOPES UP!!! :P
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
That was my internal reaction too!
“No, Neo-Confederate asshole, I’ll help YOU pack.”
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I know little about David Muir. If you are near a TV you can check him and Zelenskyy out. I think the news show will be on in a few minutes.
If you want a break from Gatlinberg civilization, such as it is, and can get away there is some nice National Forest land not too far east of town. You might even find a waterfall!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Glad to have you back
Perhaps that will happen when half of Florida goes underwater.
@Suzanne: Absolutely. But if anything that just shows how ahead of the curve and brave Hillary and Obama were for doing so, at that time. That said, Biden’s speech is perfect for THIS moment and I’m glad people are applauding it.
@schrodingers_cat: Welcome home! I was wondering if you were still there.
Biden said today, “Look, everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”
Watch, now all the idiots are going to complain about him being “divisive”.
James E Powell
It is an unassailable truth in the political press that there was nothing good from the Clinton administration what wasn’t really the result of something Reagan did.
Either Aaron Rupar or Acyn (can’t remember who) has a lot of clips of Biden’s speech today.
@Yutsano: I haven’t done the research like I used to do (I was once seriously into Fantasy Baseball), but the Mariner Pitching looks wonderful for a playoff series (which have been tweaked to high hell this year).
@WaterGirl: I don’t know about live streaming. ABC might do it, or maybe put out a text version later. You Tube may have it too, at least for a while.
@WaterGirl: Some clips
Full video of Biden’s speech today
@sdhays: Aww thanks you remembered my comment!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Those are really good points. It does seem around early August that people’s spirits did seem to pick up again, mine included. A lot of good stuff passed; Manchin and Sinema didn’t really have to say yes to the IRA, for example
And speaking of inflation, you’re correct, the current year-over-year CPI number has been down. According to the Cleveland Fed’s Nowcast, CPI was 5.51% as of 9/02. Sheetz also announced for the rest of the month at all of it’s stations that sell diesel it will only be $4.49/gal
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Alas, I’m going out to dinner. Maybe I’ll catch a rerun of it or online somewhere? It’ll probably be posted on Youtube later.
And thanks for the National Park suggestion!
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
They need to tell that to the people on their side who are flying or wearing all those bullshit variants on the American flag.
I’ve read Umair Haque from time to time on Medium. I believe he’s a British citizen who lives in London, so his views on the day to day occurrences of Hillary’s campaign, etc., are probably not the same as for someone who lives in the US. I may be mistaken though.
@Felanius Kootea: Ohhh, that explains a lot.
@Felanius Kootea: Everyone has an opinion about our politics and it is usually uninformed and wrong.
@zhena gogolia: Oh, thank you!
I gotta tell you, s_c, that this brought tears to my eyes. I’m glad you made the decision you did. Whatever our differences, I’m glad you’re here.
@Baud: Yeah, that’s the one I found.
It was from his Milwaukee speech today. :-(
I think its good that the sitting President who is also an old, white man who has been in a position of power for 50 years said what needed to be said. Thats important for sure but he didn’t say anything Hillary Clinton or Obama hasn’t said in the past about what Trump represents.
There was a second speech?
@Archon: That’s where America’s caste system becomes a major factor. There’s a reason why Obama or Clinton saying something is perceived a little differently from Biden saying the same thing.
Clinton thought she had to apologize for the deplorables comment. Biden isn’t backing down and can afford not to back down in a way that Obama couldn’t.
Did I already miss President Zelenskyy?
@Baud: Yes. Milwaukee first, then Pittsburgh.
Thanks so much for finding that, I will put up a post after dinner.
We have agency .. stop watching 24 hour news. Go and watch programs that are actually fair and balanced .. subscribe to alternate news sites that also do the same thing
If every Democrat did that .. we could force changes in programming
A little Dark Brandon digestif. Nice.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I know man. It’s ridiculous. I also hate all of the shirts with the backwards US flag on the shoulder. Have you noticed those? It’s like military cosplay
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
One thing I especially love about the “Dark Brandon” memes is that there’s been an effort to the claim “Let’s Go Brandon!”
If you have time, visit the Cades Cove Loop. It is in the quiet, less touristy part of the Smokies. Avoid Pigeon Forge; its a mess. There are short hikes from Cades Cove to a waterfall, and beautiful views.
@WaterGirl: You may have missed the live broadcast of the interview. I expect ABC will show excerpts on tomorrow’s morning show.
You tube might have it all but I’ve heard they don’t neccesarily keep copywrited content up for very long. It could be you can get a delayed stream from ABC. But this is stuff I just hear about and never do.
@schrodingers_cat: I’m glad you decided to become a US citizen and I’m glad you’ll be here for the fight. I agree that fascism has to be stopped here or nowhere will be safe.
So, another Fall of knocking on doors for “the most important election of my life” (ever since 2000).
@frosty: I’m curious: do people in your area seem receptive to Shapiro and Fetterman? Are you seeing much campaign activity from Mastriano and Oz?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
By the way, I was perusing RationalWiki’s page on Biden’s record. They brought up the fact that the VP, being President of the Senate, has the power to overrule the findings of the Senate Parliamentarian. Honest question, why didn’t Harris ever do that? She didn’t AFAIK
@Baud: FTR IIUC “the Lisbon plane” is a reference to Casablanca, where the refugees in transit are waiting for a flight to Lisbon to connect with the Pan Am Clippers headed west to the USA. But ah spoze mosta yinz filmy buffaloes knows dat awreddy.
(ETA: Brachiator at #10 FTW, dagnabit…)
James E Powell
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Democrats don’t do that or even talk of doing that.
Republicans fired the parliamentarian.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Joe Manchin might have balked if Harris overruled the Parliamentarian. Schumer would still have needed his vote to pass anything even if the Parliamentarian OK’d it.
@Geminid: Not in my area, no. I’m in the bottom of the “T” of PA. I get real excited when I see a sign for Shapiro or Fetterman, because they’re rare.
A couple of presidential elections ago our precinct captain laid out the facts: If York County goes 34% Dem, we win the state. I thought, “OK, let’s do that.” Then I thought “34%!!!!! That’s awful!”
ETA: I haven’t seen much from Shapiro or Mastriano. I went to a meet’n’greet with Fetterman last summer and got a picture. It looks hilarious with short little me next to him. Oz visited here and apparently made an idiot of himself again but I don’t recall the circumstances — all my local political news comes from the 5 or 6 emails I get from Fetterman every day.
It’s a good piece. Thanks to EandG for pointing it out last night.
In the early Obama years, I too was worried about a repeat of the 1930s, and I think that the GQP’s attempted strangulation of the Obama recovery after the Great Recession was a deliberate attempt by Moscow Mitch and his enablers to turn the USA hard to the right. They knew that the easy path to power was to gin-up anger at others taking their jobs, others getting benefits unfairly from the federal government, others getting unfairly bailed out on their worthless mortgages, and all the rest.
Fascism doesn’t reappear when everyone is happy and healthy and has economic security…
Everything is about Party and Power with the GQP. Everything else is secondary, at best. They’ll literally kill millions of us and destroy the country if they think it will let them hold and consolidate power – they showed us that under TFG.
Are there really 50mph winds in Los Angeles right now?
No. It’s worse.
They have calculated that the only people who get dusted in fascist regimes are the ones who speak up. And they don’t plan to get dusted.
These people are not reporters. They do not care about truth or fact or informing us or democracy or America or anything like that. They want to be famous for knowing famous people. That is the depth and breadth and horizon of their sad, wasted little cosmos.
They are there to get paid and get recognized. If that means ignoring the cattle cars or pretending they have no idea where all this ash is coming from? They won’t blink.
The nicest thing I can say for them is that they don’t have a single conviction in their bodies. Collectively or otherwise.
Enfin. They have pledged their allegiance. It is our job to make them regret it
Edit: which is not to say that they won’t get the shock of their miserable little lives the instant someone needs a scapegoat…
@WaterGirl: Words breed emotion. Emotion breeds action.
@WaterGirl: in what thread did JoyceH make the statement you quoted in this post. Maybe I missed an obvious link to it, but I cannot find it.
@Dangerman: I’m still in very much we’ll see mode. Right now (and it’s only the third inning) Gonzales isn’t getting good command so far. But again it’s early. I just go into panic mode fast.
@mrmoshpotato: Nevermind. Malfunctioning weather station.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It wasn’t. One more thing for which Trump must atone when he goes off to prison… the in your face tackiness of the Trump image plastered everywhere.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
That’s a good reason. The Rationawiki article neglected to mention that
Opinions are like assholes: Everyone’s got one, and it usually stinks.
(Including one’s own, if one’s honest about it.)
Mike in NC
Tomorrow FRONTLINE will begin its new season with what is billed as an epic, two-hour special examining American political leaders and choices they’ve made that have undermined and threatened our democracy. Premiering on PBS and streaming online Tuesday, Sept. 6.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@schrodingers_cat: FWIW if you read Sinclair Lewis’ “It Can’t Happen Here” the resistance is always driving back & forth across the Canadian border. Eventually the American fascists figure out they need to cut all the roads.
It was in Medium Cool last night .
@frosty: Thanks for the on the ground report. I’ve heard that Pennsylvania Republicans have motivational problems this year. I guess we’ll find out election night.
Maybe, probably not. Most of the Far Wrong notworks sell ads to sleazy types like the MyPillow fuckhead who prey on those who are easily conned to buy crap on impulse.** Our folks aren’t nearly as profitable because we tend to be careful and frugal customers.
** One might in fact propose that the shrill name-calling stupidity of those notworks are – like the spelling and grammatical errors laced through scam e-mails – designed to filter out any viewers who might be skeptical and resourceful enough to make trouble for the scamvertisers.
What say the rest of you?
I say no good deed goes unpunished. There are a good many who still support Mango Mussolini who will be the opposite of persuaded by this speech. They’re not all shitty people, either.
Still, I can’t deny it was necessary for someone to come out and say it.
didn’t realize there were transatlantic flights by 1941. this site looks promising for nostalgia:
@Mike in NC: thank you.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: now available for free from Gutenberg Australia:
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): This is one reason I don’t like most op-ed pieces. So many writers have a point to prove and won’t give a well rounded analysis that might detract from that point. Drives me crazy!
To be fair, I’ve only seen Republicans canvassing once in almost 20 years. Maybe all their GOTV is from their churches? Or maybe they just don’t need it because their voters have always been motivated.
Mike in NC
@Scout211: The title of the program is “Lies, Politics and Democracy”.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Yup, I see that a lot too
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: I know at least 3 different routes to go to Canada from where I live.
@Mike in NC: Already set on the DVR.
@frosty: In my little blue dot of a college town in Cumberland County, Fetterman and Shapiro signs are common, much more so than their opponents’. But, college town.
@EriktheRed: I tend to disregard trump’s adherents now, at least electorally. They are a lost cause, and I think their numbers are static even if they may be noisier.
Besides motivating Democrats, Biden’s speech could resonate with many Independents. They can be a critical group of voters in purple states and districts.
Independents may already be swinging towards Democratic candidates. The Wall Street Journal published a poll last week that showed a net swing of 15% among Independents. A comparable March poll showed a 12% lead for Republicans on a generic Congressional ballot. The latest poll showed Democrats leading Republicans 38-35%. That’s good news if the dynamic persists.
cool movie just started on msnbc — henry louis gates, jr., was part of the team that made it — about the US civil war and how it lives in memory today.
@watergirl A H/t on the front page of my most beloved site?! I feel as though I’ve finally been successful at interneting. There must be hope, there is always hope. BJ gives me hope, even when the news is dark. Forward in all directions!
@Uncle Cosmo: The reason television news is getting so reactionary is because young people have cut the cord and are not watching that crap so they are pandering to their remaining audience.
@phdesmond: Of course the real problem with transoceanic airlines was range and payload. That website you linked to notes that the 40ish-capacity Martin “Clippers” opened up Asia/Pacific for air travel, but on the long San Francisco to Honolulu leg they could only carry 8 passengers, which really put a damper on the service.
Willy Ley’s Engineers’ Dreams (1954), which I read in elementary school, included (among much wilder stuff, like a tunnel under the English Channel!) the idea of building artificial islands large enough for airliners to land and refuel that could be stationed along transatlantic routes to help solve the range limitations. Overcome by events ever since the 1940’s, it strikes me that this sort of concept might make it feasible to use 737-size airliners retrofitted to burn hydrogen on such routes – the planes’ ranges would be short but you could land and refuel every 1000 miles or so if either (i) you had LH2 made in Iceland using geothermal energy and shipped out to the stopoff islands or (ii) built in nuclear powerplants for dissociating seawater into H2 and O2 and refrigerating it. Yeah, crazy idea, but if you really really really want to stop burning fossil fuels in airplanes….
Studying up on candidates for the Massachusetts state Democratic primary tomorrow. I’m struck by the fact that in several of these races, the choice is actually hard because we have multiple candidates who seem smart, strong and clued-in on burning issues of the day, vying for the spot. I don’t think it’s been like this most years.
@Matt McIrvin: I just filled in my mail-in-ballot. Since I was a delegate I had already researched the candidates, spoken to them or their aides etc.
@phdesmond: Ever fly the shuttle into LaGuardia? I remember they’d drop you off at what used to be the old flying-boat terminal where those Clippers came in. It was a beautiful place.
If you voted Republican you wouldn’t have any of those problems.
Absolutely what the country needs to hear. Elegant and clear. President Biden talks about the big picture…
A feeling of pride to hear his come out firmly against the nationalist – neo fascist movement. If anyones feelings are hurt, it must be their a member of or sympathetic to a movement that’s a repeat of Hitler’s play book. Do most MAGA’s really know where they are headed? At last I checked there’s just one country here for us all. Those would are full of rage, ready to do violence and underhanded law making to win seats and hopefully be given the oars could jump ship to wait for an autocrat to send a rescue boat. Wait … can the MAGAs swim?
this whole “if we go the rest of the world goes” is a pretty insulting piece of American exceptionalism. America’s electoral system has been broken since 2000 at a bare minimum. Presidents have been evading the consequences of blatant crimes since the 80s – at a bare minimum.
Staying and fighting for the US because you love the US, or because it’s your home, is perfectly laudable. Leaving the US because you think it’s going to crap is also perfectly fine. Staying in the US because the rest of the world will go to crap if you don’t is ignoring all the things other countries do right independent of, or in some cases in spite of, America’s influence.
Also, if you’re even thinking of emigrating, start planning it yesterday because it takes a while. I know a guy who has permanently left the US, and it took him several years to organise even though he had a relatively easy job of getting foreign residency.
@Uncle Cosmo: Airbus has already put out renditions of proposed hydrogen powered transport arcraft they say might be built in the next decade. There is a lot of scepticism about hydrogen as a fuel, but the European air industry’s plan for decarbonizing air transport projects a substantial role for hydrogen fuel. The EU’s plans for a carbon neutral general economy leans heavily on hydrogen.
In the interim, carbon-neutral liquid fuels may play a role. House Democrats have tried to mandate a transition from petroleum derived jetfuel to carbon neutral. They may well succeed in a couple years. The transition would be gradual.
@Slightly_peeved: A fascist United States will eventually destroy the rest of the world with its military power, regardless of what they do elsewhere.
I remember what I kept hearing in 2004: people in other parts of the world upset that they didn’t get a vote about George W. Bush even though what he did definitely directly affected them.
@Slightly_peeved: Actually, given the economic, cultural and political power that America does, in fact, possess, I would argue that it’s a simple straight line deduction to think that stopping fascism in the US is the best, easiest chance to stop it world wide.
Not to say it can’t be done if the US falls, but it’ll be a whole lot harder and not nearly as good a chance at success
@Matt McIrvin: That, too.
that’ a nice bit of history.
@gwangung: That was called The Domino Effect back in the 60s. It didn’t hold up to scrutiny then and it doesn’t now.
Also, it’s funny talking about America’s cultural reach when the one person who is most to blame for America’s push to fascism is a formerly-Australian newspaper baron who had run our and Britain’s news media for years before he stretched his venomous tentacles over to the US. If he could have installed Dutton, aka Pol Potato, as prime minister for life he would have, but he can’t.
again – fighting fascism in the US is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and having a Democratic US makes the world better as a whole. It’s a dish I was perfectly ready to tuck into before the waiter came over with the big bowl of ‘Non-Americans will be powerless before our cultural might’ and dumped a big spoonful on top. I’ve been forced to eat it my whole life and I’m quite tired of it ruining otherwise perfectly good food.
@Slightly_peeved: It’s not clear to me who you are picking a fight with. JoyceH didn’t say any of the things you marked with quotation marks, and I don’t see them anywhere else in this thread either.
Many of the people here are writers and generally pick their words pretty carefully.
is really condescending. It assumes that if America cannot defeat fascism, no other country can. The assumption that the rest of the world has effectively no agency, that what happens in the US can be axiomatically assumed to have a catastrophic effect on other nations, is American Exceptionalism.
@Slightly_peeved: I think she chose her words carefully.
You think the world would be safe with a fascist America?
Given the history of US conflict in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the military conquest of Europe as a foregone conclusion seems a bit of a stretch.
There’s agency and then there’s effectiveness. No denying that this country would be a huge bite for the rest of the nonfascist world to take on, if it came to that, while a fascist government here was actively opposing them with what we can bring to the table. I see no condescension there. It’s up to us to take that possible burden off everyone else, which I think is what the commenter was saying.
@Slightly_peeved: Those were on their ground.
Parts of it would be. America will not, and could not, impose global fascism.
“No place is safe”, in reference to people emigrating, assumes their ground. In fact, it assumes my ground, as in the very land I procrastinate upon right now, which is why my take might be different.
If you’re saying it would be difficult for the rest of the world to save the US from fascism, I’d agree. But if we’re talking about people fleeing the US for other countries, we’re talking about the US imposing fascism on Germany. Norway. Australia. Assuming the US could just roll over the rest of the world no problem kind of ignores what happened the last few times the US actually tried to do that.
@Slightly_peeved: no one said it would or could. But a fascist America would make it a lot easier for the nascent or actual fascist strains in other countries to take and keep hold.
@Slightly_peeved: the gop takes power, american fascists won’t invade europe. they’ll nuke europe.
@Slightly_peeved: If you’re arguing that the USA could not take over Elbonia because the population would take up AK-47s and make pipe bombs and make the invaders’ lives miserable, fine. I agree.
But don’t forget that the USA can drop bombs on any particular place on the planet in about an hour if it wanted to. That it has the most capable Navy on the planet. That it controls most of the world’s trade system via its monopoly on the US Dollar. That it has the world’s best constellation of spy satellites. The US has lots and lots of ways of projecting power, destroying another country’s infrastructure and economy, etc., and most of them don’t involve bootsonaground.
A fascist America would be a threat to every other country (even temporary nominal allies). Nobody else would be “safe”.
Why? When they can just rule their Gilead and then go cruise the Mediterranean in their mega yacht.
(I have some sympathy for the climate-change version of this argument; that a fascist America will merrily accelerate climate change to the detriment of the globe. But that won’t be an imposition of worldwide fascism, and makes emigration to somewhere high and cold an even better idea)
@Slightly_peeved: because it would serve putin’s purpose of revenge on the west.
To re-iterate, the context of this discussion is that the US is projecting power on the rest of the planet. If we’re saying no place is safe.
So when you talk about Elbonia and IEDs, you’re talking about every other country on the planet. Particularly, you’re talking about me and the Kaurna land I live on. Which is why, as I’ve said from the start, this argument is really insulting in addition to being wrong.
@Slightly_peeved: Given the history of US conflict in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan, would you say that those were safe places while the US was fucking with them?
If Putin wanted to nuke Europe, he could do it right now. He wants to rule Europe, particularly the bit that used to be in the USSR, which is why he’s actually invading these places rather than just turning Kyiv into glass.
Also, Europe has nukes and rockets too.
@dww44: I’m not sure which thread it was. Sorry!
@EmanG: Glad that brightened your day!
@Slightly_peeved: I used Elbonia as a generic country since I don’t recall you mentioning where you are. (I was actually thinking of Freedonia, but couldn’t remember the name.)
I don’t see that JoyceH’s comment was insulting. I took it as a caution that one cannot know how other country’s political systems will change during these times of rapid change on so many fronts. Nothing is guaranteed.
We visited Budapest in 2010, just before the parliamentary elections that Fidesz won in a landslide. It seemed like a nice place…
Thanks for your perspective. I’m sorry if I caused offense.
The suggestion is the US is going to do this to everywhere in the world. “No place is safe”, right?
Are you suggesting that the US would be able to threaten Vancouver, Osaka, Manchester, Berlin, Wellington and Rome, all at once? When a lot of the countries described have their own airforces and air defences?
Also, leaving aside the physical requirements, what does that get Emperor Trump? Why spend all these people and materiel blowing up places where his golf clubs and hotels are? There’s a whole range of options and outcomes between ‘fascist America’ and ‘fascist planet’ that aren’t even being considered here.
Frankly, if you’re certain the US will become fascist, you will do better if you emigrate. Because the chances of Norway becoming fascist because of the US are going to always be less than the chances of the US becoming fascist by definition. The reason to stay in the US is because it’s your country and you want to fight for it. Which is *fine*. Please do.
no worries. I don’t think JoyceH meant anything by it, either. Not speaking for everyone outside the US, either. I just figure a non-US perspective is better than none when discussing emigration.
@Slightly_peeved: It’s a small world and we’re all in this together.
My thesis adviser was Ukrainian, born in Germany, grew up in Sydney, Australia. I worked with him in Ohio, and he always talked with his Ukrainian wife in Ukrainian on the phone.
People like their familial homelands. ;-)
@Slightly_peeved: safe isn’t the same thing as conquered. The US could not conquer the whole world. It most definitely would make them all less safe if it went fascist. First, the same kind of parties are trying to take over many other countries including some important democracies like Britain, France, India, Turkey etc. If the US went fascist, it would help the authoritarians in all sorts of countries and cause the pretty fast collapse of say Ukraine.
Second, the US has lost a lot of stupid meddling wars, but part of why may be because there were things we didn’t even consider doing. With worse leadership, who knows where we will end up? Possibly using nukes again? We still haven’t paid a full reckoning for torture in Iraq and Afghanistan. This isn’t to say we would surely win if we got dirtier, I think sometimes it would get “wins” and sometimes get blowback and destroy alliances. But it will certainly change things in a destructive hurricane that will make the whole world blow up.
i don’t think it is American exceptionalism. It is just a real fact that we are very powerful and built into the systems that run the world this century. Banking, diplomacy, military and politics. It’s all inter related. It’s also not forever or destined and the freaking republicans are throwing away a lot of work of generations that they don’t even understand. They think it is just a natural American right that happened because God liked them. They are stupid as well as mean.
The planet is too small to run. America is like a key chess piece. It has to be defended.
@schrodingers_cat: You’re planning to drop it off, and not mail it, right?
It’s got to be in by 8PM Tuesday.
The assault weapons ban is a step in the right direction, but millions of toxic MAGAts still have millions of AR-15s in their man-caves.
Solution: you can own all the Armorlites you want, but once you leave your house with them, they are ours.
This might be a popular plank for Baud 20xx. Anyone know how to reach him?
@Slightly_peeved: yeah, no, i can see you’re not getting this. everyone is making it pretty clear: a fascist america threatens the entire world whether with soft power, conventional power or nuclear power. as to why PUTIN won’t nuke europe?
you said it yourself. the europeans also have nukes. having his american puppets destroy his enemies while what’s left of the world blames THEM is just icing on the cake-
not to mention, all the countries you rattled off use american made systems and have been trained in american methodologies.
but you do you, carry on with your nymsake and be slightly peeved.
Being afraid that an unhinged US president would do something reckless that would lead to my home being destroyed was how I spent a big chunk of the 80s. A US insistence that other countries convert to its style of government almost got my dad drafted in the 60s. In both cases, one of my comforts was that I was safer where I am than in the US.
@Slightly_peeved: Oh, I didn’t say they’d win anywhere–they wouldn’t–just that they’d destroy everything in the process.
@Slightly_peeved: I understand that you don’t know me. I have no plans to emigrate to anywhere, thank you. I do see that you are digging in. If you cannot recognize that a fascist US would be a bigger threat to the world than, for example, a fascist Norway, then there is very little I can do to help you. I hope your drop bears keep you safe.
Why tho? It’ll just waste fuel and money to give them less influence in other nations. Conventional bombing just makes people more keen to resist.
It’s not impossible, but would you bet on life in a fascist US be better than being in a non-fascist country that deals with a fascist US? It seems like in the worst case – nuclear winter or world fascist hegemon – it’s still a no-score draw.
A fascist US is more of a threat to someone in the US than someone in Norway. The root question is ‘should people emigrate from the US?’, so that’s the relevant comparison.
Sea lion much?
I may not be totally familiar with all Internet traditions, but I’m pretty sure sea lioning would be incessantly badgering you about the topic. I replied to you once, mate.
(ETA: I have repeated myself a bit, in hindsight. I won’t do that any further. I’ve made my point.)
I do t understand y’all. I’m an American living abroad (Hungary, Portugal, Austria, now Germany).
first of all, you can’t simply move to another country. You need a reason, typically long-term employment. Have you really got that set up in Portugal? You do understand that everything is in Portuguese, right?
second, you are abandoning your friends and family. Don’t pretend your relationship will survive because you can FaceTime.
third, their values aren’t your values. “Do as the Roman’s do” is good advice when you’re just a visiting tourist; but are you prepared to actually *become* Portuguese (German, Finnish)? I doubt it. There’s a good reason why it’s called “the Old World”. There are countless serious cultural differences, which reflect non-Anglo-Saxon thinking. You would never tolerate these things in the US, so why would you tolerate them while abroad?
i am looking to move *back* to the US, not stay in Europe. I’ve had enough. Your ability to make a difference in the US is basically zero when you’re abroad.
@Jesse: Excellent points.
Personally, I can’t imagine leaving the US for good. But, people are different.
Thanks. Good luck!
@Another Scott: indeed, some people do seem to make it work. But I’m just not that kind of American. I ended up abroad as a temporary measure (couldn’t find a job in my industry in the US, in 2009 [terrible time to be on the job market]). But I didn’t set out to *leave* the US. Marriage came into my life while abroad, but that’s the only reason why I’m still I Europe; I don’t really *want* to be here long-term. Thankfully, my spouse agrees, hence the planning to go back to the US.
i venture that Americans who actually thrive, long-term, outside the country (and I don’t mean the military) are a rarer breed than you might think.
J R in WV
Welcome home, young lady, Glad you made it there and back safely! you will have to tell us all about the trip, the festivities, even the odd ones your MIL dreamed up for you.