Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

The lights are all blinking red.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I was promised a recession.

The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

The willow is too close to the house.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

You are here: Home / Elections / 2022 Elections / GOP Problems Open Thread: The Old Order Passeth, Literally

GOP Problems Open Thread: The Old Order Passeth, Literally

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#MoscowMitch (I repeat myself) is an old-school political grifter. He reliably gave a small pool of wealthy donors what they wanted, and in return got a ‘taste’ of every transaction (donations to his ‘Super PACs’, et al), which during the GOP Years of Prosperity was good enough for him *and* the party.

Sheldon Adelson was a major international casino guy, and also he greatly enjoyed having high-ranking Republicans reliably show up to kiss his ring, in return for what was to him couch-change money. His much young wife Miriam is an Israeli citizen, who wanted right-wing Israeli political interests treated reverently by American politicians, and that was not a difficult chore for McConnell and his running buddies, either. But now Sheldon’s dead, Miriam is predictably less interested in casino wheeler-dealing and more interested in her real political home, and the spigot’s shutting down…

… Miriam Adelson along with her late husband Sheldon Adelson were the party’s biggest donors over the past decade. But her only major contribution in the current election cycle is the $5 million she donated in July to the Congressional Leadership Fund, a super PAC that backs House GOP candidates.

The couple, the largest shareholders of casino giant Las Vegas Sands Corp. and a long-time bugaboo to Democrats, donated $524 million to the party’s super PACs, committees and candidates between 2011 and 2020. They were high-profile backers of former President Donald Trump, who awarded Miriam the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2018.

But since her husband’s death in January 2021, Miriam Adelson, a 76-year-old physician, has largely eschewed the in-person events with politicians that typically conclude with big donations, according to two people familiar with her activity who asked not to be identified. Miriam, who spends much of her time in Israel, didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Adelson’s financial circumstances have changed as well. While a net worth exceeding $27 billion makes her the sixth-richest woman in the world, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, her wealth has taken a hit during Covid, with the stock down 45% since the end of 2019. Sands also stopped paying dividends in April 2020, ending a consistent stream of income. The family’s 433 million shares had thrown off more than $1 billion a year in cash.

The expectation among many in Washington was that Miriam would maintain the couple’s benevolence. But her only major contribution this year is one-sixth of what the Adelsons had given to the Congressional Leadership Fund by this point in the 2018 election cycle. That time around, both also wrote $33,900 checks, then the maximum amount, to the Republican National Committee and the National Republican Congressional Committee, and maxed out to 18 federal candidates.

Without the Adelsons’ big donations, some Republicans worry they could face a cash crunch heading into the midterms…

The people, who asked not to be identified discussing private information, cautioned that there’s still time yet left in the election cycle for Adelson to donate. But if she does scale back giving for the duration of the midterm cycle, some Republican groups that have counted on Adelson money in the past could find themselves short on cash.

One example is the Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC with close ties to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. In 2020, it raised $340 million ahead of the general election, and backed candidates in 12 Senate races. The bulk of that amount, some $212 million, arrived in the critical period between Aug. 1 and Election Day. The Adelsons gave $70 million during that period, about one-third of the total.

And the new, rising generation of big-money GOP donors — not to mention the candidates they choose — are… well, nothing like McConnell ever expected:

Too, also!

Reader Interactions

152Comments

  1. 1.

    Ken

    How does a dinner that is 50k per attendee net each candidate just $25k?

    That’s also the question that the organizer of the dinner is screaming at his subordinates, except he’s leaving out the word “just”.

    (Which answers the original question, I guess.)

  3. 3.

    Gin & Tonic

    And in inspired grifting, sort of – is this catfishing or something like it? Not up on all the hep lingo.

    Ukraine’s hackers registered a number of fake women’s accounts on social networks, tricked 🇷🇺 soldiers into sending photos that they geolocated, and shared with the 🇺🇦 military. A few days later, identified 🇷🇺 base near occupied Melitopol was blown up by Ukrainian artillery. – FT
    — UkraineWorld (@ukraine_world) September 5, 2022

  5. 5.

    West of the Rockies

    Wasn’t there a story just a week ago about some anonymous mega donor throwing a billion dollars at the GOP?  Are they financially disadvantaged or flush with cash?

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @West of the Rockies: $1.6B, but it wasn’t anonymous. I would think Leo, given his history, would be focused on the Senate, and would prefer McConnell-esque candidates. Maybe he’s keeping his powder dry until the Walker-Oz storm has passed?

    An elderly, ultra-secretive Chicago businessman has given the largest known donation to a political advocacy group in U.S. history — worth $1.6 billion — and the recipient is one of the prime architects of conservatives’ efforts to reshape the American judicial system, including the Supreme Court.
    Through a series of opaque transactions over the past two years, Barre Seid, a 90-year-old manufacturing magnate, gave the massive sum to a nonprofit run by Leonard Leo, who co-chairs the conservative legal group the Federalist Society.

  9. 9.

    Anyway

    I call bullshit on any SCOOPS that Rethugs and RW-aligned grifters are hurting for money. There seem to be no end of reactionary billionaires and their scions that give in the hundreds of millions to Rs that puts my $20 ActBlue donations in perspective. Every cycle I hear of yet another billionaire in the R camp. So discouraging.

  10. 10.

    burnspbesq

    Adelson got what he wanted out of his donations to the R’s. He went to his grave without being indicted in connection with Sands’ many violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

    His widow has no similar concerns.

  11. 11.

    Jay C

    @Another Scott:

    I think you’re right about the misuse of the term “bugaboo”: invocations of “an imaginary object of fear” are more-commonly a staple of Republican, not Democratic campaigns…

    And while Schumer and Pelosi may be keeping their begging “out of the papers”, they seem to have simply moved it off onto other media: my email inbox has (as it has in every election year), been flooded with various appeals for donations – in various degrees of panic, usually – including several from local candidates in House races in quite-distant states from me.

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … Phys.org:

    The Thwaites Glacier in West Antarctica—about the size of Florida—has been an elephant in the room for scientists trying to make global sea level rise predictions.

    This massive ice stream is already in a phase of fast retreat (a “collapse” when viewed on geological timescales) leading to widespread concern about exactly how much, or how fast, it may give up its ice to the ocean.

    The potential impact of Thwaites’ retreat is spine-chilling: a total loss of the glacier and surrounding icy basins could raise sea level from 3 to 10 feet.

    A new study in Nature Geoscience led by marine geophysicist Alastair Graham at the University of South Florida’s College of Marine Science adds cause for concern. For the first time, scientists mapped in high-resolution a critical area of the seafloor in front of the glacier that gives them a window into how fast Thwaites retreated and moved in the past.

    The stunning imagery shows geologic features that are new to science, and also provides a kind of crystal ball to see into Thwaites’ future. In people and ice sheets alike, past behavior is key to understanding future behavior.

    The team documented more than 160 parallel ridges that were created, like a footprint, as the glacier’s leading edge retreated and bobbed up and down with the daily tides.

    “It’s as if you are looking at a tide gauge on the seafloor,” Graham said. “It really blows my mind how beautiful the data are.”

    [ image – THOR scientists Alastair Graham (right) and Robert Larter (left) look on in awe at the crumbling ice face of the Thwaites Glacier margin, from the bridge deck of the R/V Nathaniel B. Palmer. Credit: Frank Nitsche ]

    Beauty aside, what’s alarming is that the rate of Thwaites’ retreat that scientists have documented more recently are small compared to the fastest rates of change in its past, said Graham.

    To understand Thwaites’ past retreat, the team analyzed the rib-like formations submerged 700 meters (just under half a mile) beneath the polar ocean and factored in the tidal cycle for the region, as predicted by computer models, to show that one rib must have been formed every single day.

    At some point in the last 200 years, over a duration of less than six months, the front of the glacier lost contact with a seabed ridge and retreated at a rate of more than 2.1 kilometers per year (1.3 miles per year)—twice the rate documented using satellites between 2011 and 2019.

    “Our results suggest that pulses of very rapid retreat have occurred at Thwaites Glacier in the last two centuries, and possibly as recently as the mid-20th Century,” Graham said.

    “Thwaites is really holding on today by its fingernails, and we should expect to see big changes over small timescales in the future—even from one year to the next—once the glacier retreats beyond a shallow ridge in its bed,” said marine geophysicist and study co-author Robert Larter from the British Antarctic Survey.

    […]

    (Emphasis added.)

    Early results, needs confirmation and more data, etc., as always. Nobody is saying the sea level will rise 3-10 feet next year. But we can’t assume that Nature is going to behave in ways that make us happy…

    The modern world needs to get a move on in cutting CO2 emissions much faster…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  13. 13.

    trollhattan

    Guessing Tony Jay is sharpening his Formal Skewering Pencil before introducing Liz Truss, who as far as I can tell is Boris Johnson II but without an identifiable personality. She, for example, has said the best way to address Scotland is to ignore Scotland.

    Tories are posh Republicans.

  14. 14.

    Brachiator

    @West of the Rockies:

    Here is how a mega donation was done:

    A new group led by a prominent conservative lawyer has received $1.6 billion from one donor — the largest single contribution to a politically focused nonprofit that’s ever been made public, and a fortune that could be used to fuel right-wing interests.

    The nonprofit, Marble Freedom Trust, received the contribution in the form of stock and then funneled more than $200 million to other conservative organizations last year, a tax form CNN obtained from the IRS shows.

    Marble Freedom is led by Leonard Leo, the co-chairman of the conservative Federalist Society, who advised former President Donald Trump on his Supreme Court picks and runs a sprawling network of other right-wing nonprofits that don’t disclose their donors, which are often referred to as dark money groups.

  15. 15.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I have no idea what sort of money the Federalist Society has had to play with up until now.  Whatever it was, it was a lot less than 1.6B.  It may take Leo more than a couple of months to figure out what to do with all that money.

    And while we’re on the subject, fuck Citizens United and the members of the Supreme Court that were in the majority in that decision.

    ETA: Looks like Brachiator has added a bit of detail.

  17. 17.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I wonder how much “over the past two years” is burying the lede.  It didn’t seem to help the GQP in the 2020 elections very much (but maybe it would have been much worse without that cash?).

    In so much of the MSM political reporting these days, the language seems designed to cause Democrats to panic, while the (often extremely limited) facts – while concerning – don’t seem that panic-inducing on their own.

    Dunno…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  18. 18.

    trollhattan

    @Another Scott: That’s a glacial gallop–ice horses?

    I can relate my encounters with Mt. Rainier as a kid with how it looks today, with notably less ice (several million family vacation snapshots will verify the regression).

    Of course as we lose ice, we lose its reflection of solar energy back into space, most notable with the Arctic Sea ice, which melts earlier and more completely with each passing northern summer, accelerating the heating process.

  19. 19.

    MisterDancer

    @West of the Rockies: [Removing as it’s been said by others]

    It’s sadly important to acknowledge that the Conservative Movement, as seen by entities like this “Marble Freedom Trust” or our old foes the Federalist Society, directs and impacts the GOP, but legally and in other ways isn’t the actual Party.

    That 1.6 Billion can’t get spent on direct ads, or campaign staff. What it can do, is pay for ass-hats to harassing teachers into quitting, or set the stage in a community to vote in “anti-woke” school boards. And, of course, to assist turning lawyers into time bombs for the rule of law and human rights in America, once they become Federalist Society-approved Judges.

  21. 21.

    Ken

    @trollhattan: I joked in last night’s comments that Truss looks like a shoo-in for a Nobel Peace Prize due to her sterling work for Irish reunification, which may extend to Ireland, Scotland, and Wales forming a new Celtic federation.  At least, I thought it was a joke.

  23. 23.

    lowtechcyclist

    @MisterDancer:

    That 1.6 Billion can’t get spent on direct ads, or campaign staff.

    Wouldn’t that depend on the tax status of Marble Freedom Trust, IOW what sort of nonprofit they are legally?  Just being a nonprofit doesn’t exclude any activities.  AIUI, PACs are nonprofits.

  24. 24.

    MisterDancer

    @lowtechcyclist: I have no idea what sort of money the Federalist Society has had to play with up until now.

    In 2017 WaPo has them at 20 Million. For obvious reasons they don’t keep these numbers up and about for just anyone to know…

    The “good” news is that much of the funds are in stocks. The “bad” news is that it’s still a lot of money.

    The horrible news is that it’ll not just fund Federalist activities. Because these funds didn’t go to them directly, but another company run by Leo. and Leo…he runs a host of other activities, many of which no one has eyes-on from our side:

    “What makes Leonard Leo so consequential is not because he’s so smart or whatever, it’s that he’s sitting at the center of an enormous network,” says Steven Teles, author of “The Rise of the Conservative Legal Movement: The Battle for Control of the Law” and a professor of political science at Johns Hopkins University. “He has lots of information, and that information isn’t just his; it’s that those things bubble up through those relationships … spreading through all these people who know each other, and they develop reputations and linkages, which then have lots of other consequences.”

  25. 25.

    Mike in NC

    I confess I wore a big smile all day when I heard that Shelly Adelson kicked the bucket last year.

  26. 26.

    Nora

    I find it really hard to cry even crocodile tears for the likes of Moscow Mitch. I wish I believed in hell so I could hope he goes there.

  27. 27.

    Another Scott

    @SiubhanDuinne: Could be, but that’s also an “imaginary creature”.

    I don’t see how editorializing (in something that claims to be a political news piece and not an editorial or OpEd, by a reporter whose beat is Campaign Finance) that tens of millions in casino money , much of it from China, being dumped – by one or two people – into the opposing political party is some imaginary unwarranted concern.

    [ mumble, grumble, shakes fist at clouds ]

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28.

    MisterDancer

    @lowtechcyclist: Direct Ads == ads supporting a candidate, the “I’m X and I approve this message” ads.

    Same for staffing a candidate; that needs to come from funds raised by that candidate.

    This is why so many non-profits advocate issues that align with a candidate; that, they can run ads and pay for people to run around about that issue (and thus imply they should vote for x candidate/party), at least openly.

  29. 29.

    Mike in NC

    There’s going to be a lot of attention paid to Clarence Thomas’s outrageous comments about taking away more and more of our freedoms. He and Ginni might as well be on the ballot in November.

  36. 36.

    boatboy_srq

    The expectation among many in Washington was that Miriam would maintain the couple’s benevolence.

    “Benevolence”? Really? When they’re funding a party hell-bent on destroying the republic and suppressing Those Other People? Donations, maybe; generosity; probably. But FFS, FTFMSM, please stop beatifying GQP 0.01%ers with nothing better to do with their wealth than finance fascists.

  37. 37.

    oldgold

    JFC-“ Judge grants Trump’s special master request to review “personal items and documents and potentially privileged material subject to claims of attorney-client and/or executive privilege.”

    Executive privilege review? Total BS!

  41. 41.

    boatboy_srq

    @Anyway: If the donations are going to a fund managed by Senator Voldemort or anyone like him, though, it’s a serious question whether those funds will ever benefit any candidate (besides Voldemort of course).

  43. 43.

    Renie

    @oldgold: Wow talk about bias. This will definitely be over-ruled and then trump will try to take it to his friends on the Supreme and who knows what those loonies will do. Our Courts are so corrupted by the Federalist Society.

  45. 45.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: I am away from home.  I only got a text letting know.  No details.  I was trying to be a normie this holiday weekend.

  46. 46.

    oldgold

     

    @Omnes Omnibus: Just more time pissed away.

    Executive fucking  privilege?  Jesus H. Christ, Trump is NOT the EXECUTIVE and  the documents are being requested by the damn EXECUTIVE BRANCH the government. This is not just wrong. It is corrupt.

  47. 47.

    RepubAnon

    @WaterGirl: My guesses would be:

    1. The Russians had already figured it out; or,
    2. The Ukrainians have some other methods for spotting these bases, and this is used as a cover.  Similar to the British covering up radar capabilities by saying their pilots were eating lots of carrots.
  52. 52.

    brantl

    @WaterGirl: They’re probably too stupid to stop, anyway; and if they start getting real western news, the jig is up for their commanders anyway, isn’t it?

  56. 56.

    Bill Arnold

    @oldgold:

    JFC-“ Judge grants Trump’s special master request to review “personal items and documents and potentially privileged material subject to claims of attorney-client and/or executive privilege.”

    That judge will not enjoy the rest of her life. May it be long and miserable.

  57. 57.

    Scout211

    I will leave it to the attorneys here for a legal response, but as a non- attorney, this wording seems like a homage to F-POTUS’s greatness.
    Link

    ”As a function of Plaintiff’s former position as President of the United States, the stigma associated with the subject seizure is in a league of its own,” Cannon wrote. “A future indictment, based to any degree on property that ought to be returned, would result in reputational harm of a decidedly different order of magnitude.”

    Cannon ordered that a third-party attorney, from outside the government, be brought in to review the materials that were taken from Trump’s home and resort in Florida. It also halts the Justice Department from continuing its review of the materials seized from Mar-a-Lago “pending completion of the special master’s review or further Court order.”

     

    ETA: at least the IC review is still allowed

    The classification review and intelligence assessments being conducted by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, however, will be allowed to continue.

  58. 58.

    oldgold

    Now watch as Trump uses this corrupt ruling over the next  60 days to eviscerate the DOJ.

    Just look at what he wrote earlier this morning:

    “So they riffled through the living quarters of my 16 year old son, Barron, and the loved and respected former First Lady of the United States, Melania.”

    Worse is coming, much worse. And the DOJ likely does not respond. Gotta follow the unwritten 6O day rule – except if your name is Clinton

  60. 60.

    catclub

    @Scout211: Cannon ordered that a third-party attorney, from outside the government,

    Is Mueller retired?  How about the guy who got shitcanned a day before he got his retirement pension?

  61. 61.

    Edmund Dantes

    It’s such a weird parsing. Can’t keep doing the criminal review, but government can continue the National security review.

    Problem is they are the same damn thing basically. To see how badly we were compromised by the documents being out of their normal control cause someone took them.

  62. 62.

    oldgold

    @WaterGirl: WHY?

    We have just had someone issue a ruling that corruptly assaults the rule of law. And, has the potential, of destroying our Republic!

    There is absolutely NO good news in this abomination.

  63. 63.

    Bill Arnold

    @oldgold:

    And the DOJ likely does not respond. Gotta follow the unwritten 6O day rule – except if your name is Clinton

    I am quite sure that there are a lot of people (including top level people) in the DOJ who are absolutely white-hot livid, and are planning moves to win this. The judge is basically ordering the DOJ to shut down a major counterintelligence investigation (the FBI does those).
    She is corrupt, and perhaps a traitor.

  65. 65.

    Another Scott

    @oldgold:

    Popehat says a “freakout” isn’t warranted.

    Thread.

    I don’t think the absolute freakout over this is warranted. I don’t think it’s the right outcome, equitably, but numerous elements of the written decision don’t support it being the catastrophe people are saying. But there seems to be very little point in saying so. https://t.co/9VTtpbiMB1

    — EnemyOfTheHat (@Popehat) September 5, 2022

    This is one of the strongest critiques — that the order doesn’t address the threshold issue of how executive privilege applies against executive inquiry. https://t.co/9eZ388I82k

    — EnemyOfTheHat (@Popehat) September 5, 2022

    /3 but even if the order isn’t a catastrophe, I think the observation that the court bent over backwards for Trump on every issue is a fair assessment.

    — EnemyOfTheHat (@Popehat) September 5, 2022

    I’m sure the DoJ lawyers have gamed this out eleventy-seven ways and will have a strong, sensible response shortly.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  66. 66.

    oldgold

    I am just shaking in rage; or, is it fear?

    If this stands, it is all she wrote. I am not exaggerating the exceedingly dire implications of this corrupt ruling.

  68. 68.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​I think the writer meant bugbear.

    Probably, given the minuscule understanding of the English language typically on display in our political “go-pound-its”.

    (FTR there’s only one other word I know of that ends in -gaboo & even those sonsofbitches wouldn’t dare use it in public…Then again, maybe the author giggled to himself as he typed in hopes of getting some echoes going in the knucklebreathing-mouthdragging dumbographic…)

  70. 70.

    Starfish

    @Jay C: Act Blue and others are simply spamming their lists, and they are going to kill that golden goose. Every election cycle, some Democrat that I know nothing about in some southern state that I am not connected to has spam in my inbox.

  71. 71.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott:

    I’m sure the DoJ lawyers have gamed this out eleventy-seven ways and will have a strong, sensible response shortly.

    Agreed.  They’re better, and more ethical, lawyers than the judge.

    Eyes on the prize.

  72. 72.

    oldgold

    @Elizabelle:

    I have been over myself for decades. My teenage children made sure of that.

    But, perhaps, it is possible, I know something  or other about Constitutional Law and the threat this corrupt decision poses.

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    We know TFG went judge-shopping to get someone he appointed to protect him. This is the best ruling he’s going to get on this. And it seems pretty weak from my quick scan of the commentary on it.

    Appeals courts and the SCOTUS are going to bring some reason to the proceedings. Why? Because do you imagine them wanting Obama demanding via “executive privilege” the releasing meeting notes, etc., on his meeting with Moscow Mitch and the GQP about issuing a statement on VVP’s election interference in the 2016 election this Halloween?? The Executive is the office, not the occupant and certainly not the previous occupant.

    tl;dr – We knew this was a potentially likely outcome with this judge. It’s not over.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    jonas

    @Amir Khalid: At this point, it appears they’re barely training new conscripts to hold their rifles pointed in the right direction before posting them to the front, so Imma gonna guess “no.”

  80. 80.

    Anonymous At Work

    I think the main GOP problem isn’t lack of money but an unforeseen lack of deniability after Dobbs.  Pre-Dobbs, “it’s just Democrats engaging in political rhetoric” when Democrats warned “This is what Republicans really believe” on a large number of topics (xenophobic immigration policies, racist ‘law’-and-order policies, misogynist abortion policies, etc.).  But now popular understanding is “Democrats were right about this in a way that the media, Republicans, and uninterested/uninformed voters denied.”

  81. 81.

    Brachiator

    @MisterDancer:

    The “good” news is that much of the funds are in stocks. The “bad” news is that it’s still a lot of money.

    There is nothing good when a non-profit can sell the stock and immediately get a tax free cash infusion.

  83. 83.

    CaseyL

    @Omnes Omnibus:  But won’t the appeal go to the 11th Circuit? The very Federalist Society 11th Circuit?…and then to SCOTUS, and we know what will happen there.

    The Federalist Society, as someone (can’t remember who) pointed out yesterday, doesn’t exist to break the law.  It exists to break the very concept of law.

  84. 84.

    Geminid

     

     

    @WaterGirl: I see that ABC’s David Muir interviewed Ukraine President Zelenskyy. The interview (or much of it) will be aired this evening on ABC World News Tonight. Should be good!

  86. 86.

    Scout211

    @CaseyL: We don’t actually know that SCOTUS will rule for F-POTUS.

    Remember, they ruled against Trump on his records earlier this year. 

    WASHINGTON, Feb 22 (Reuters) – The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday brought a formal end to former President Donald Trump’s request to block the release of White House records sought by the Democratic-led congressional panel investigating last year’s deadly attack on the Capitol by a mob of his supporters.

    The court’s decision to formally reject Trump’s appeal follows its Jan. 19 order that led to the documents being handed over to the House of Representatives investigative committee by the federal agency that stores government and historical records.

  87. 87.

    Anyway

    Ok, so the billions can’t be spent on direct ads for candidates. Big whoop. The plutocrat millions sloshing around RW coffers gives them room to strategize and thwart the wishes of the majority. I get so sick of references to “HRC got the majority of votes” — where did that get us? Ds and left-aligned think tanks need to figure out ways to change the system so the majority is reflected better in the power structure.

  89. 89.

    oldgold

    @Baud:  “Don’t t threaten anything.”

    What? Time is nothing? 60 days before an election? Knowing what this bad faith actor will do with this? Does it cost us the House? The Senate? And, on and on. This corrupt decision threatens a great deal.

     

  90. 90.

    Bill Arnold

    @Another Scott:
    From that thread,

    /5 By the way you’re seeing a lot of “the judge shut down the criminal investigation.” Not so. The judge shut down, for now, review of documents seized from Mar-a-Lago. The criminal investigation existed before that and will continue on other channels as before.
    — EnemyOfTheHat (@Popehat) September 5, 2022

    I do not agree. The judge shivved a large counterintelligence investigation; she may not have killed it, but she did deliberately try do do damage to it. (Perhaps/probably as a quid-pro-quo favor to the man who appointed her.) The investigation will continue, and is, I am entirely sure, much broader than that trove of documents, but that trove of documents is an important current part of the investigation.

  97. 97.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    One hopes the judge’s decision is not only short lived but inspires a blue wave.

    The decision will add to the Democratic wave.

    Whether the decision lives on depends on the makeup of the judges reviewing the appeal. A Republican majority appeals court is going to let it stand.

    Republican federal judges are the vanguard of the conservative movement. The tip of revolutionary spear to plunge into their enemies’ hearts.

    The logic behind their decisions should be viewed based on how it advances the cause of their conservative revolution, and not what some case study from a dusty old legal tome law professors teach from.

    Keeping Trump out of jail seems to be in the best interests of the conservative revolution given the reaction by Republican politicians. Look for every Republican judge to come up with ways to make this happen.

  100. 100.

    Miss Bianca

    @oldgold: What the hell are YOU talking about? You’re running around with your hair on fire about one goddamn ruling that anyone with any sense should have been half-expecting anyway, and you’ve already jumped to the end of the Republic.

    If that’s not “borrowing trouble”, then I don’t know what is.

  101. 101.

    MisterDancer

    @Anyway: Ok, so the billions can’t be spent on direct ads for candidates. Big whoop.

    You know, I’m pretty sure I wrote, a few months ago, a big warning about these kinds of expenditures on this very site. Then another one on how dark money was funding trying to kill the then nascent anti-Russia sanctions around the Ukrainian War.

    And that’s aside from my many, MANY comments over the years on how the Progressive side’s message is woefully behind how much money is poured into people like Rufo. I’ve said it so often, I just stopped saying it because I though people were tired of hearing it from me!

    Maybe I dreamed writing them? Maybe you missed ’em?

    In other words: I’m not excited to have to write a damned essay of caveats and explainers, every time I raise these complex and intertwined topics. Because they are complex, and thus why I point to other sources so people get more context than I can provide w/o, yanno, just posting yet Another Dark Money Screed (and taking days to research/write it)

    Cut us some slack, please and thank you.

  102. 102.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    That makes sense. Since Dem presidents are unlikely to be subject to legitimate criminal investigation, they can create special rules without worrying that it will bite them in the ass later.  We’ll see though.

  103. 103.

    oldgold

    @Baud: You said, “District Court decisions don’t threaten anything.”

    My point is, of course, they do. To argued otherwise is unfettered nonsense.

     

     

     

    @

  105. 105.

    gene108

    @Bill Arnold:

    That judge will not enjoy the rest of her life. May it be long and miserable.

    Cannon’s punched her ticket to be on a Supreme Court nomination short list with this ruling, if a spot opens up in the next 10 years, with Republicans controlling the White House and Senate.

    The only regret she may have is getting passed over for a SCOTUS seat.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    @oldgold: No, it’ll be the appeals decision that threatens things.  If this decision is stayed tomorrow, where’s the threat?  Everyone already knows who this judge is, and that her views are colored by her politic.  I happen to think that the GOP will regret this judge’s decision in November.  But I don’t like to make predictions.

  107. 107.

    H.E.Wolf

    @oldgold: “I am just shaking in rage; or, is it fear?”​
     Either way, I recommend the position espoused by Abraham Davenport:

    “The day of judgment is either approaching, or it is not. If it is not, there is no cause for an adjournment; if it is, I choose to be found doing my duty.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Davenport

    My skill isn’t in doing courtroom tasks. It’s doing small, concrete GOTV tasks, to help increase voter turnout 9 weeks from now.

    I encourage everyone who is angry and/or afraid to find something small and specific to do for GOTV *while* being furious and fearful (they aren’t mutually exclusive). The less glamorous the task, the better. :-)

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    Sometimes it’s okay to disagree.

    Sometimes people have to vent about bad news as part of processing it.

    Balloon Juice is a place where we get to do that.

    One thing I think we would all agree with is that Balloon Juice would not be what we value if everyone had to have the same fucking opinion about everything.

    It seems to me that calm responses are helpful and personal attacks are not.

  109. 109.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @moldyoldie: ​But, perhaps, it is possible, I know something or other about Constitutional Law and the threat this corrupt decision poses.

    And perhaps the “something or other” you claim to “know” can be written on the head of a straight pin with a paint roller.

  110. 110.

    Geminid

    @Baud: If the judge’s  order is upheld I think a lot will come down to the Special Master. I wonder what the process to appoint one will be.

    In the meantime investigators have a lot of leads to pursue and and people to question. For instance, who besides trump handled these materials? I don’t believe the judge’s order freezes them in this respect.

  112. 112.

    Bill Arnold

    @gene108:

    Cannon’s punched her ticket to be on a Supreme Court nomination short list with this ruling,

    That’s her bet. Dumb, or at least very risky, bet on her part, IMO.

  113. 113.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    Since Dem presidents are unlikely to be subject to legitimate criminal investigation, they can create special rules without worrying that it will bite them in the ass later.

    I think this is where this case is headed. Republicans have bristled at presidential accountability ever since Watergate.

    Gingrich made such a joke of the Congressional special prosecutor position that Congress repealed it, though it was setup to prevent Watergate style abuses by the Executive.

    A lot of Bush, Jr.’s abuse of office might’ve received some level of accountability had the statute still existed.

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    @oldgold: I know a lot of people think indictments are essential for Democratic success in the midterms. Personally, I don’t see indictments (or the lack thereof) shifting a lot of votes.

    Maybe they should, but that’s a different story.

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    District judge do dumb shit all the time.  If this survives an appeal, I will be more concerned.

  117. 117.

    Starfish

    @WaterGirl: Everyone needs to cut everyone else some slack. It has been a tough few years. Also, many things are closed today, so there is no sense telling people to do something about it today because it is likely not getting done until tomorrow.

    We can’t kick Judge Loose Cannon in the shins because we either have self-restraint or lack proximity. Also, if we did kick Judge Loose Cannon in the shins, we would be dangerous antifa brutalizing very neutral judges, so it is best not to.

  118. 118.

    jonas

    An appeals court isn’t going to possibly take seriously the notion that claims of either a/c or executive privilege are even remotely at stake here, are they? It’s an obstruction and theft/exposure of government secrets investigation.

  119. 119.

    James E Powell

    @Bill Arnold:

    Given the thickness of the skulls of American voters, I’d prefer shouted headlines that “Trump appointed judge shuts down investigation of Trump!!!” and let them explain how it’s not that bad.

    And just for laughs, imagine the name Clinton for Trump in both places in that proposed headline. NYT SOP.

    Fuck these people. That judge is totally out of line. Say so.

  120. 120.

    Captain C

    @gene108: I think that was Newtie’s Intent, on his way to becoming the most corrupt, unchecked President ever. Thankfully his overreach plus his utter repulsiveness has so far prevented this. Of course, the Republicans have barfed up mainly Shrubya and TFG since then, so…

  122. 122.

    oldgold

    @Geminid: I did not think there would be any indictments before November.

    I do now fear this ruling will be used as a cudgel to pummel the hell out of the DOJ and Dems in general over the next 60 days.

    I admit my hair is on fire over this ruling, but I think for good reason.

  123. 123.

    kalakal

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Truss (Britain’s new Worst Prime Minister ever) has gotten in ahead of the critics

    “I think we have shown the breadth and depth of talent in the Conservative Party.”

    I, for one, cannot argue with that

  125. 125.

    Geminid

    @Miss Bianca: I am reminded of my favorite bluegrass song:

    “I’ll go stressin’ out, my darling,

    I’ll go stressin’ too.

    I’ll kick the cat, walk into the door.

    I’ll go stressin’ too.”

  129. 129.

    Jinchi

    @brantl: They’re definitely too stupid to stop. We’re talking about a large number of young single men cut off from contact with women for weeks at a time. Guaranteed at least one in five is an idiot.

    There have been media reports of them on Ukrainian dating sites since just before the invasion.

  130. 130.

    James E Powell

    The real absurdity is that the order is for a neutral person. If someone claims to be neutral about Trump, then they are a pro-Trump person & a liar. Cf. Finding jurors for the OJ trial who heard nothing about the case.

    I’m not in the “we are fucked” crowd because I have always believed that Trump will get away with whatever he did. He’s got the devil’s blessing.

    Our one & only focus must be, as @H.E.Wolf: said upthread, doing what we can to win elections. This time, the next time, and every time. It’s our power, we have to use it.

  131. 131.

    Bill Arnold

    @Captain C:
    i don’t know. Poked for a few minutes at public open/free material. Other that that she apparently claimed to have no retirement savings of any sort in her Judiciary Committee disclosure (“20 Deferred Income/ Future Benefits”), I didn’t see any glaring red flags. (Her list of publications is a more than bit eclectic but they would require a deeper dig.)
    https://ballotpedia.org/Aileen_Cannon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Cannon
    “She is of Hispanic descent and her mother fled communist Cuba.”
    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Cannon%20SJQ%20-%20PUBLIC.pdf

  132. 132.

    James E Powell

    @Geminid:

    Agree completely. Democrats on the internet have shown an over reliance on investigations & courts. Win elections. It’s the only thing that matters.

  133. 133.

    Brachiator

    @MisterDancer:

    I…I’m pretty sure the quotes around “good” indicates my opinion on how good it actually is?

    I presumed some irony, but was not clear what your opinion might be. But that was my possible error, not on you.

  134. 134.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @James E Powell:

    I’m not in the “we are fucked” crowd because I have always believed that Trump will get away with whatever he did. He’s got the devil’s blessing.

    Dude, the guy literally stole classified government documents. National security is serious business. He ain’t getting away with this. This nutbar judge’s decision will be appealed. Omnes said upthread that district judges do this shit on occasion. The only cause for concern is if this survived an appea

    Remember, the SCOTUS ruled against Trump earlier this year on an executive privilege basis

  135. 135.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    Personally, I don’t see indictments (or the lack thereof) shifting a lot of votes.

    I’m not a lawyer. I think like a lot of people my understanding of the legal/criminal process comes as much from TV shows as from following the actual news (and thus I get a lot wrong), but even I know that indictments are the beginning of a process, not the end. A lot of people seem to have convinced themselves that indictments are magic lightning bolts that will bring trump to his knees. And that indictments will somehow prevent Kevin McCarthy from issuing a Speaker’s Writ to disband criminal trials (there’s no such thing as a Speaker’s Writ)

  136. 136.

    Another Scott

    @Bill Arnold: My idle speculation:

    The NARA (Archives) and the Intelligence Community likely know exactly what classified documents are at MaL and which ones are not accounted for.  There’s a paper and signature trail whenever classified documents are taken from their storage container, and something not being checked in properly would be noticed very, very quickly.

    The DoJ and the rest of the federal government almost certainly does not need access to the paper found at MaL to do its investigation of who had access to the documents and the damage that might result.  (E.g. I wouldn’t be surprised if the papers were dusted for fingerprints and scanned and so forth within hours of being removed from MaL.)

    Sure, your honor, we put the originals in a vault while we wait for the Special Master process to complete.

    Popehat points to a tweet where someone suggests that the DoJ might not appeal, to prevent the Federalists Society folks from destroying yet another part of the federal government.  Instead, they’ll let the SM go ahead and accept the delay, confident of the ultimate outcome.  Maybe…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Kathleen

    @TheOtherHank: Thank you for the link to that fascinating article. Of course it led me to some other links that I just had to read but the trip down the rabbit hole was worth it.

    I’m currently reading “Who Betrayed Ann Frank” – A Cold Case Investigation” which includes description of attitudes and politics in Amsterdam during the occupation so I found the article a nice complement to that. I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in WWII history or Ann Frank’s story.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @oldgold: I don’t think that will depress Democratic turnout, or elevate Republican either. And very few persuadable voters will shift because of attacks on the DOJ. Most people have their minds on other stuff.

    This is a two edged sword for Republicans. The more they complain about this search, the more attention they draw to the damning facts of the matter. I think the less trump is in the news, the better for Republican candidates. It’s all the better that trump is not going to shut up or stop whipping up his supporters.

  140. 140.

    Bill Arnold

    @Another Scott:

    The DoJ and the rest of the federal government almost certainly does not need access to the paper found at MaL to do its investigation of who had access to the documents and the damage that might result.

    If a document has gone walkabout, as many almost certainly have (The “I flushed them down the toilet” defense may be deployed. (Prove it.)), then thing like ” the empty folder in the box was next to a gift from foreign national X would be helpful.
    Dramatic and silly example, sure, but the point is that determining how much damage DJT did to the US and how directly he did it can use any available evidence.

  141. 141.

    Jesse

    @WaterGirl: my understanding was that Wales was pretty similar to England in their Tory leanings. Scotland not so much (for Reasons), Northern Ireland also not so much (for different Reasons).

  142. 142.

    Low Key Swagger

    I have to assume that the intelligence services have already totally altered how, when, and with whom they operate out of an abundance of caution.  Would it not be prudent to protect/remove assets if there are missing documents that pertain to humint?  Maybe Adam can chime in.  It’s possible we lost decades worth of trusted contacts and I for one think that, ultimately, the DOJ will go HAM on a prosecution.

  143. 143.

    catclub

    @Bill Arnold: I agree with Popehat here. The investigation – for instance asking people,” did you see this classified document”?

    Can continue.  I would say the only thing slowed down is they cannot present documents under review to a grandjury.

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    @Low Key Swagger: There is always the possibility that the CIA and/or the NSA got wind of some of these documents making their way into foreign hands, and alerted the FBI.

    This is a handy hypothesis because it is unlikely ever to be proven or disproven. The DOJ would “reverse engineer” the investigation so to speak, in order to keep the intelligence agencies out of their case and establish through legal process facts they may already know.

  145. 145.

    kalakal

    @Jesse: Wales is definitely not Tory. They haven’t been in the majority there since the 19th Century. Labour has been the majority party since 1922 & before that it was the Liberals (Whigs).

  146. 146.

    Ruckus

    @Nora:

    There is hell on earth. Often people like him make a version of their own hell on earth. They get to the point that more people want them to suffer than don’t, and they get, about the same time, far less able to shield themselves from the fallout of their own bullshit

    Some people call this karma.

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    If it wasn’t for the accent that could be a lot of countries but especially the ones run by rich assholes who only give a damn about their own wallets. Say the last guy Jackass McShit for Brains.

  149. 149.

    patrick II

    @WaterGirl:

    I could live with email spam since I have more than one email address, an it is much easier to manage anyway.  But I have only one phone which they found, or decided to use, this past spring.  It is a real pain having all of that spam mixed in with my personal texts. I can’t block them quickly enough.

  151. 151.

    Lininal Owl

    On the off chance anyone is still reading this thread: Re: Wales vs. Tories, might I recommend the (1980s, but sometimes available streaming) miniseries TO SERVE THEM ALL MY DAYS?

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