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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / NatSec Worries Open Thread: What *Was* Floating Around At Mar-A-Lago?

NatSec Worries Open Thread: What *Was* Floating Around At Mar-A-Lago?

by | 88 Comments

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Snark, I’m sure!… pretty sure… well, probably sure…

Wouldn’t be Trump, anyways — Young Jared is a much faster reader. Per the Washington Post:

… Documents about such highly classified operations require special clearances on a need-to-know basis, not just top-secret clearance. Some special-access programs can have as few as a couple dozen government personnel authorized to know of an operation’s existence. Records that deal with such programs are kept under lock and key, almost always in a secure compartmented information facility, with a designated control officer to keep careful tabs on their location.

But such documents were stored at Mar-a-Lago, with uncertain security, more than 18 months after Trump left the White House.

After months of trying, according to government court filings, the FBI has recovered more than 300 classified documents from Mar-a-Lago this year: 184 in a set of 15 boxes sent to the National Archives and Records Administration in January, 38 more handed over by a Trump lawyer to investigators in June, and more than 100 additional documents unearthed in a court-approved search on Aug. 8.

It was in this last batch of government secrets, the people familiar with the matter said, that the information about a foreign government’s nuclear-defense readiness was found. These people did not identify the foreign government in question, say where at Mar-a-Lago the document was found or offer additional details about one of the Justice Department’s most sensitive national security investigations…

One person familiar with the Mar-a-Lago search said the goal of the comprehensive list was to ensure recovery of all classified records on the property, and not just those that investigators had reason to believe might be there.

Investigators grew alarmed, according to one person familiar with the search, as they began to review documents retrieved from the club’s storage closet, Trump’s residence and his office in August. The team soon came upon records that are extremely restricted, so much so that even some of the senior-most national security officials in the Biden administration weren’t authorized to review them. One government filing alluded to this information when it noted that counterintelligence FBI agents and prosecutors investigating the Mar-a-Lago documents were not authorized at first to review some of the material seized…

The investigation into possible mishandling of classified information, as well as possible hiding, tampering or destruction of government records, grew even more complex Monday when a federal judge in Florida granted Trump’s request to appoint a special master to review the material seized in the Aug. 8 search and weed out documents that may be covered by executive privilege — a legal standard that, as applied to former presidents, is poorly defined…

While the FBI search has drawn strong condemnation from Trump and his Republican allies, who accuse the Justice Department of acting with political malice against a past president who may seek the office again in 2024, some Republicans have said the action might have been necessary.

In an interview that aired Friday, former Trump attorney general William P. Barr said there is no reason classified documents should have been at Mar-a-Lago after Trump was out of office.

“People say this was unprecedented,” Barr told Fox News. “But it’s also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay?”

Bill ‘Ever Lower’ Barr ain’t going to jail for TFG. Or maybe he’s hoping he could be the Wingnut Wurlitzer’s dream ‘Special Master’?

Also snark, but it would be properly cinematic for the whole TFG saga:

ETA: I originally (you can tell, from the timestamps on the first comment) posted this just *seconds* after Adam’s Ukraine update. So I pulled it back for an hour, so y’all would have time to read both posts. Little did I suspect…

Reader Interactions

88Comments

  3. 3.

    Cacti

    Somehow, things with Donald Trump are ALWAYS worse than they initially seemed.

    But this speculation would make sense in view of all the money Prince Bonesaw has lavished on Trump and Kushner.

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    @SpaceUnit:   But, if these are steps in taking Trump down, down, down, I am all for it.  Good to see the news out.

    Had no doubt the “deep state” would have some interest in the [potential, by no means certain] special master, and in what der Trump absconded with …

  10. 10.

    Brachiator

    OT. Well, This is fun..

    #BREAKING: Cal-ISO has now issued an Energy Emergency Alert 2, in effect from 4 to 9 p.m. The alert means the state’s power grid manager is requesting emergency supplies from all resources to meet what is expected to be a historic demand for electricity.

    And if course some dopes are losing their minds.

    This is our chance to demostrate to all California politicians that green energy still isnot reliable. Newsom is aski g people not to charhe their electric cars during this heat wave. Imagine when there will be more elwctric cars than gas cars. Lets all blast our CAs and fully

    It is hot as hell in places. But we will get through it.

  15. 15.

    2liberal

    It seems like the DOJ has not yet appealed the special master ruling.  Does anyone know anything more about what is happening with this and a possible timeline?

  19. 19.

    Martin

    If everything goes just right and people keep their lights off for a bit, CA might avoid rolling blackouts. Gonna be close.

    Tomorrow looking a bit dicey as well, but better after that.

  20. 20.

    WaterGirl

    @2liberal: My guess is that they are still trying to figure out which is the least bad way to play this shitty hand.

    I suspect they did not think the judge would screw the pooch this badly.  Just flouting the law and giving it the middle finger.

  22. 22.

    Spanky

    @2liberal: IANADOJ, but they’ve only had one work day so far to formulate an appeal. But there’s also a possibility that they’ve gamed this out to where they go with a special master and really get Trump’s balls in a vise. I have no idea how that would work, but I’m way out of my lane on most of this anyway.

  23. 23.

    Elizabelle

    @Spanky:  LOL.

    California jackals:  do you have handheld fans and iced drinks on hand?  They work.  How are your pets faring?

    I think most of us will get a turn in the barrel, in the coming years.

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    @Elizabelle: I think if we haven’t had any rolling blackouts yet, we’re not going to have much if any today; it’s already starting to cool off a bit as we go through the evening. Tomorrow (and day after), we get to do this again. Wheeeeee….

  25. 25.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    I’m waking up, I feel it in my bones
    Enough to make my systems blow
    Welcome to the new age, to the new age
    Whoa, I’m radioactive

  28. 28.

    Jeffro

    I love the RWNJs’ glee at the thought that California might struggle in this heatwave, and that they think it somehow makes their point against electric cars.

    As if all the carbon we’ve burnt/tossed into the air over the past century and especially the last 3-4 decades is better.  Maybe we should ask Pakistan about that, with the recent flooding of half their country?  Or Europe, in their next heat wave?  How about Houston and its flooding a couple years ago?  I could go on and on*.  Anyone think that electric cars are worse than THAT?

    *Just wait until Kim Stanley Robinson’s opening scenario in “The Ministry for the Future” hits in India, Africa, or China (which in China’s case, has been very nearly happening for months now).  Millions dead in an extreme heat event.  We’ll see how loudly the RWNJs want to tee-hee then.

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    @Anne Laurie: Not sure how I missed it.  But occasionally when I check “All Posts” to make sure no one else is about to put something up – I forget to hit refresh, which means I am looking at an older version of the page.

    I wonder if that happened here.  As I think about it, I suspect that is exactly what happened.  sigh.

  31. 31.

    Martin

    @Elizabelle: Everything is fine, actually. We have loads of power before 4PM. It dips off at 4PM because the solar starts to wane while demand is still increasing from people coming home from work. So before 4PM, you can AC to your hearts content. We then have this 5 hour reduced usage window.

    So, the simple stuff is run the dishwasher in the morning instead of after dinner, etc. Don’t plug in your car until after 9 – or set it’s charging schedule until after 9. Precool the house – turn the AC to 72 at 3PM, then turn it up to 78 at 4PM, etc.

    Flex alerts are good excuses to barbecue and spare your electricity use, etc. We’re a household of laptop users, so we unplug them at 4, run off the battery, and plug them in later in the evening.

    It’s not really that hard to cut your power usage by a LOT for a few hours just by scheduling things a bit. But the state is doing a good job of making this a collective project – it’s a ‘if we work together we can make things better’ approach, which I kind of love, TBH.

    Today I’m writing some code to automate my home cooling system. I’m trying to find a Raspberry Pi to buy to run it on, but the code looks at the state Flex Alert notifications to know if that part of things should run, does the precooling of the house by setting the thermostat, turns it up at the appropriate time per the flex alert, then monitors the interior and exterior temps to know if to turn the AC off and turn the whole house fan on and does that, and then yell at us to open the windows for the fan.

  32. 32.

    RaflW

    I sure hope Judge Aileen Cannon is going to feel the white hot heat of a bunch of Nat Sec folks. She’s playing with (potentially nuclear secret) fire, and she deserves to get burned (metaphorically speaking, of course).

  33. 33.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    I love the smell of uranium-235 in the morning
    The smell, that gaseous smell
    Smells like someone is gonna need more corrupt judges

  34. 34.

    gene108

    @Jeffro:

    RWNJ’s will “tee-hee” to own the libs, even as their home is ruined by flooding, their crops wither and die during a drought, or their elderly grandparents die from heat exposure. The ability to properly understand cause and effect is not an attribute they possess.

  35. 35.

    Jim Appleton

    Gee, there’s a theme developing in recent posts — a nudge that TFG kept, and likely made use of, highly sensitive and likely core data on Israeli nuclear capabilities.

    If accurate, and if outside the purview of this week’s shameful order, how is this guy not behind bars?

  36. 36.

    StringOnAStick

    @Spanky: I have read speculation that an appeal would go to the reactionary 11th Circuit, so not a guaranteed result and much more time wasted than just letting the special master stuff play out.  Leaks of info like today’s nuclear revelation just might happen more too.  Could be”please proceed ” territory.

  37. 37.

    mrmoshpotato

    @gene108:

    RWNJ’s will “tee-hee” to own the libs, even as their home is ruined by flooding, their crops wither and die during a drought, or their elderly grandparents die from heat exposure. 

    Don’t forget “as wildfires burn down their homes.”

  38. 38.

    Elizabelle

    @Martin:   Very inventive.

    Was reading today that blackout curtains are a good strategy.  Keep that bedroom cool, and do not open them.  Obviously, a more low tech solution than you are at work with!

    @dmsilev:   Good to hear.  Hope you do get a cooler spell.

    Incredible to hear of how well California communicates with its citizens.  On energy, and on voting.

  39. 39.

    Bupalos

    Occam’s razor here would definitley suggest Trump sold Israel’s nuke capability and deployment to the Saudis for 2-3 billion.

    I’m just trying to decide if that fully satisfies the Trump-Murphy corrolary “whatever you think it is with Trump, it’s always worse.

  46. 46.

    Martin

    @Steeplejack: Python and javascript. The automation stack is javascript based but has a python interface, and I can do a lot more interesting stuff in python than I can in javascript.

    I’ve got another project I’m doing in lua, so my brain is a bit of a language jumble right now.

  47. 47.

    mvr

    @Bupalos: I’m having trouble seeing why Israel as opposed someone else’s. He’s an anti-semite to be sure, but also best buds with Israel’s right wing. He hates nearly all non-autocrat-governed NATO nations (and non-NATO for that matter – it is the autocracy he loves). . .

  48. 48.

    piratedan

    yes, yes… by all means lets halt this national security crisis assessment while we make sure that the guy who’s been a lying POS for the last half a decade has his no longer relevant executive priv rights reviewed regarding the illegally held classified and top secret documents in his unsecured location sorted out.

  49. 49.

    Martin

    @Scout211: People should note from the table that CA has 9 million more people since 1998, and effectively no increase in power peak. Conservation is the cheapest way to address climate change.

  50. 50.

    Martin

    @mvr: He’s given up Israeli info to Russia before, and he’s clearly seeing the Middle East as the place to make money – so what intel do they want?

  51. 51.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    WaPo via Watergirl 2 Top:

    Material on foreign nation’s nuclear capabilities seized at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago

    In other words, DOJ to Aileen Cannon:

    You wanna fuck us around and find out, lady? Here’s what finding out looks like.

  52. 52.

    Chris Johnson

    @Elizabelle: Blackout curtains (white on the outside, reflect heat away as much as possible) do absolutely work. I haven’t run AC in my house all summer, because I do the blackout curtains very aggressively and run fans to pull air from the basement up through the attic. It works very well, I think.

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    Bill ‘Ever Lower’ Barr ain’t going to jail for TFG. Or maybe he’s hoping he could be the Wingnut Wurlitzer’s dream ‘Special Master’?

    The sad thing is that is no shortage of people eager to work for Trump, to lie for him and to keep his secrets. This, despite the easily observed reality that loyalty only goes one way with Trump.

  55. 55.

    Captain C

    So, if this was Jared selling Israeli nuclear secrets to the Saudis, does he ever dare visit Israel again?  I can see them being extremely pissed about this even though he is nominally Orthodox(?).  Certainly, I can see the Saudis happily paying $2 billion for such secrets.

  58. 58.

    sanjeevs

    @Captain C: Selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis would piss off AIPAC but will boost Trump’s popularity with the fundies as it brings the end times nearer.

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Obama also has all the necessary clearances to be a special master. There’s a lot to go through so he and Hillary should team up.

    Another thought: Jimmy Carter isn’t a lawyer, but he has (or had) the necessary clearances, and he has subject-matter expertise.

  60. 60.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    @JoePosting via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    If Trump was selling the details of Israel’s nuclear program to the Saudis it’s going to cause a very funny schism between a bunch of terrible people.

    Not snark, not really. There are only about nine countries with nukes¹, and Trump kept that info to either sell/share it, or to blackmail someone. The most likely nuclear-armed country he’d sell out is Israel, and the most likely interested parties are Putin and MBS.

    ¹ US, UK, France, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Israel, and probably North Korea.

  61. 61.

    The Moar You Know

     

    Another thought: Jimmy Carter isn’t a lawyer, but he has (or had) the necessary clearances, and he has subject-matter expertise.

    @SiubhanDuinne:  Give the poor man a vacation.  He’s done enough.

  62. 62.

    catclub

    @Captain C: Jared would have the sense to nonchalantly return the document.  Trump does not
     

    Either MBS ( Jared)  or Putin (Trump) would tell them to return the document so there will NOT be an investigation of spillage. Once you tell Trump  to do something he does the opposite and keeps it.

  64. 64.

    Dopey-o

    @Danielx: Trying to describe how nice a night it is in Grand Haven MI

    Are you sitting by the harbor watching the Musical Fountain? We took our young impresssionable nephew there 20 years ago. He is still scarred by the experience.

  65. 65.

    cain

    @Bupalos: that will be some serious foreign relations nightmare.. and with Israel of all nations .. those people are going to be pissed.

    Gosh I wonder what the Israel lobby is gonna do now huh ? AIPAC is gonna put the screws on the GOP if all this is true.

  67. 67.

    catclub

    @Lacuna Synecdoche: US, UK, France, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Israel, and probably North Korea.

     

    I would guess Iran, Japan and South Korea could have them in a week or two. Australia maybe.

  69. 69.

    Calouste

    If the shitgibbon sold Israel’s nuclear secrets to the Saudis he’d be lucky if he ends up in Leavenworth before the Mossad gets to him.

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    @Captain C:

    So, if this was Jared selling Israeli nuclear secrets to the Saudis, does he ever dare visit Israel again?  I can see them being extremely pissed about this even though he is nominally Orthodox(?).  Certainly, I can see the Saudis happily paying $2 billion for such secrets.

    International relations are strange. Israel might not mind if some nuclear secrets were sold to the Saudis.

    A sale to Iran would be totally unacceptable.

  74. 74.

    cmorenc

    @RaflW:

    I sure hope Judge Aileen Cannon is going to feel the white hot heat of a bunch of Nat Sec folks. She’s playing with (potentially nuclear secret) fire, and she deserves to get burned (metaphorically speaking, of course).

    Judge Cannon is playing the long career game of burnishing her credentials for the next hard-right GOP President (Trump redeaux or DeSantis) to nominate her for the next opening on SCOTUS.

  75. 75.

    Geminid

    I’m not sure why people  are assuming that this is a matter of the Saudis wanting to buy Israel’s nuclear secrets. Both countries inspire a lot of resentment in many people, so maybe they like the idea of “a very funny schism between some terrible people.”

    But what use would Israel’s nuclear sectets be to the Saudi’s? They and Israel have been defacto allies since the turn of the century at least. Now both countries openly talk about their mutual air defense coordination, and their ships participate alongside each other in CENTCOM exercises.

    Trump taught the Saudis a lesson. Every US President since FDR considered the security of Saudi Arabia a major US interest and had the Saudis’ backs. Then, along came a President who clearly cared about nothing or no one but himself. It’s no wonder the Saudis turned to another regional power with a common adversary, that being Iran. They understand and accept that Israel is in the Middle East east to stay, while the US might not be.

    So, what if the Saudis did get the full scoop on Israeli nuclear forces? They could then say, “Aha! Those submarines traveling through the Red Sea that we thought were carrying nuclear missiles really are carrying nuclear missiles! And the facilities at Dimona that we figured had produced somewhere around 200 nuclear bombs and warheads have in fact produced 210! And the bombs are kept at the two airbases in central and southern that were the obvious choices! That billion dollars we gave trump sure was well spent!”

    I’m not saying the Saudi’s wouldn’t like to know, just that none of this would be very critical information to them. But like I said, a lot of people really don’t like either country, and projecting some sort of catfight between them is a satisfying exercise.

  77. 77.

    sdhays

    @2liberal: I’ve seen that it’s possible that they’ll just roll with it to get on with the process – the appeal could end up eating more time. And maybe they want to do what they can to keep decisions out of the 11th Circuit and Supreme Court as much as possible because they don’t trust them not to create really horrible precedents.

    I personally hate the idea that this awful decision gets to just sit out there without being incinerated in (judicial) real-time, but at the district level, it’s not much of a precedent and a modestly decent future judge will simply ignore it as the heaping pile of shit it is whether it’s appealed now or not.

  78. 78.

    sdhays

    @Geminid: When I first saw the news, I suspected it was information on Russia’s nuclear arsenal. But maybe it’s Israel’s information and the information was sold, or intended to be sold/given, to Putin who could then sell it/trade it to Iran.

    I also wonder if the information on the foreign nation’s nuclear capabilities were in the folders that were in the same drawer as his passports…

  79. 79.

    columbusqueen

    What about it being France’s info sold to Russia?  That seems a likelier scenario to me.

  80. 80.

    columbusqueen

    Also wondering how long before Melania flies off to the Adriatic with her kid, parents, & a suitcase full of cash & jewels.

  81. 81.

    Geminid

    @catclub: Unless Iran has a large underground facility that no one knows about, it will take them more than two weeks to put a nuclear bomb together. They might pull it off with in six months with the infrastructure we know they have. But- the Israelis regularly practice long range air attacks and are ready to hit Iran’s nuclear facilities on short notice, and will if they think Iran is close to producing a nuclear bomb.

    I think that you are right about Japan and maybe South Korea, although I think it would take them months, not weeks. Germany also probably has a plan to quickly produce nuclear weapons if they have to.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @columbusqueen:  US intelligence on any nation’s nuclear program has great value to someone, and that would include France’s.

    India and Pakistan would be intensly interested in each other’s programs. Those have been the two countries that have been most likely to have a nuclear war, at least in recent decades.

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Who pretends not to be certain that Israel has nuclear weapons? When “F”LBJ was told the Israelis had them he just told the them not to acknowledge they did, and the Israelis never have. But it’s been a known fact for 50 years.

  85. 85.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​

    don’t we all pretend we’re not sure about Israel?

    Maybe diplomats do. I don’t think anyone else plays that game anymore, though. I mean, didn’t everyone else get tired of pretending?

    But I could be wrong – I really don’t know.

  86. 86.

    Steeplejack

    @Martin:

    Thanks for the info. I’ve been interested in the Raspberry Pi for a while, just haven’t thought of a suitable project.

  87. 87.

    PaulB

    In addition to blackout curtains, I’ve been using reflective foil insulation in some of my southern-facing windows. It really made a difference in my second-floor bedroom. I have a Victorian home and that bedroom has five windows, facing mostly south, in the typical Victorian bulge. Standing there on a typical, hot, sunny afternoon, I found that the temperature in the vicinity was easily 5 to 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house.

    For the windows that don’t open, I just cut to fit and install using masking tape. For the windows I need to open at night to bring in cooler air, I tape just the top half, leaving the bottom half free to be rolled up so that the window can open. Now, standing in that bulge, I don’t feel any temperature difference at all.

  88. 88.

    H-Bob

    Judge Cannon valued Trump’s reputation (that activates my hilarity unit) over National Security!  Why isn’t there outrage?

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