Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Let there be snark.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

This blog will pay for itself.

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Sunday Open Thread: Al Franken, Truthteller

Sunday Open Thread: Al Franken, Truthteller

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Former Democratic Sen. Al Franken debates CNN political commentator and GOP strategist Alice Stewart over the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade and the political leanings of the court. #CNN #News

 

I saw the shortened version of this on twitter, but it looks like they had a longer, epic battle of wits and intelligence, where Alice Stewart came unarmed.  Every Democrat should take lessons from Franken on how to call out gaslighting in real time.

This was interesting and thoughtful. Otherwise, I probably would have left any 9/11 remembrances to others.

I thought I might have critter photos, but have been super busy, mostly cleaning up hair and muddy footprints, and I don’t have what it takes to make them stand still long enough so photos aren’t just a blur of fur and feathers. Maybe later this week.

This is an open thread.

Reader Interactions

164Comments

  2. 2.

    Jackie

    I watched it live, and was literally giving Al a standing ovation and applauding! Yelling at the tv “You tell her, Al!!!”

    Boy, do I miss him in the senate.

  3. 3.

    TaMara

    I really, really want to say something about the looks of all these soulless, blonde GOP women, but it would be wrong and sexist, so I will just quietly sit here and keep these thoughts to myself. 😘

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Not really of much more than marginal interest but repeating as the original was in a late night thread.

    Last time returned from NY to Maui (2019, pre-COVID) the entire sojourn, which according to the itinerary should take about 13 hours or a fraction more, lasted 32 hours until stepping through my front doorway at home.

    This year was an improvement, the total time clocking in at 31 hours.

    And so it goes.
    ;)

  6. 6.

    Wag

    I wouldn’t call that an epic battle.  Battle implies a give and take between two well argued positions.  Frankin rightly dominated her in an epic exposure of the frailty of her GQP positions.

  7. 7.

    Kelly

    Heavy smoke here in Oregon’s western Cascade foothills. We were a red dot on the air quality map until an hour ago. That’s officially “Unhealthy”. We are an orange dot now “Unhealthy for sensitive groups”. Fortunately with the power back on our heat pump is keeping us cool and our air purifier is keeping our lungs clean.

    The dot for Oakridge, OR the nearest town to the Cedar Creek Fire that’s making all this smoke is a sorta scab colored maroon which is officially “Hazardous”. Oakridge was evacuated a few days ago but it appears the firefighters will keep the fire out of town.

    At times like this from my comfortable refuge I think about the firefighters spending their entire summer working hard in hazardous air for a typically seasonal job that only pays well because of copious overtime. Two Oregon firefighters have been killed by falling trees this year. Wildland firefighters should have all the benefits of urban firefighters including a generous early retirement.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    Well, good for Al. He’s not reluctant to talk over someone who is lying. I guess being in the Senate presents that situation repeatedly in an unavoidable and edifying way.

    I’ve noted that ‘opinions differ’ on Ukraine… from ‘It will all be reversed in a week’ to ‘Putin will be shot’. Feeling a very tiny pang of sympathy for media editors whose tightropes have become fraying threads. I’m looking, specifically, for more animated maps.

  9. 9.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    He would always ask the best questions on the judiciary committee.

  10. 10.

    Raoul Paste

    I saw Ira Glass talk last night, and he bemoaned how a fraction of America does not live in reality anymore.  These Liars for Money are the culprit, and kudos to Franken for fighting the good fight

  14. 14.

    Another Scott

    It takes a long time for the embed to appear for me (5-10s?). Here’s the YouTube link (10:13) if others are having similar issues.

    (Chrome on Win10.)

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  18. 18.

    WaterGirl

    @TaMara:

    I am so glad you didn’t say something about the looks of all these soulless, blonde GOP women, because it would be wrong and sexist, and I would have been obliged to agree with what you said in spite of that.

  19. 19.

    realbtl

    To me this all comes back to Karl Rove saying “We create our own reality.”  That may work for a while but eventually reality bites them on the ass.

  21. 21.

    H.E.Wolf

    @different-church-lady: A dear relative who used to live in rural Maine recalled that the editorial columnist for their small local newspaper used to write a column every summer, just before going on his annual one-month vacation, saying that he’d seen a bobcat. The resulting arguments in the “Letters to the Editor” section – had he seen one, had he not, was it actually a mountain lion or a cougar – filled up all the column space left vacant during his holiday.  :-)

  23. 23.

    NotMax

    @WaterGirl

    Idea for MSNBC come next April 1st.

    Every host (whether female or male) wears a wig of long, straight blonde tresses for the opening segment of his/her program.

    :)

  25. 25.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @TaMara: and @WaterGirl:

    I’ll do it.  The eerie cookie-cutter blonde look of conservative women in television shows off the disgusting misogyny of the movement, and the tokenism aspect.  Conservative men, who get to do the picking, automatically prefer a physical archetype of personality-free sexuality, especially in a woman who for some reason is on display.  Indeed, ‘on display’ roles like television are one of the few places where conservatives are comfortable with more than one or two token women, so long as the women are decorative and know their place.  I don’t know which is worse, that many women are actually like that, or that others are willing to play the role.

    I’m sure it’s relevant that MeToo revealed the national news is run by sexual assailants.

    EDIT – If it seems odd conservatives put Barret in a position as powerful as the Supreme Court, remember she was chosen specifically as an insult to RGB and Hillary Clinton.  McConnell describing Barrett’s nomination as a birthday gift to Hillary really underscores what a vile, petty, spiteful man he is.

  26. 26.

    Starfish

    When Al Franken is invited to speak on the Supreme Court and women’s issues, he should have Mitt Romney’s binder full of women and refer CNN to any woman to speak intelligently on the topic.

    Republicans are intentionally sending women out to defend their ghoulish agenda, and they are going to try to “Oh, but isn’t it sexist for him to talk over her?” for crap like this. They should not have the opportunity.

  29. 29.

    hilts

    Disappointed that Alice Stewart was not wearing any face paint because she delivered a pitch perfect impersonation of a circus clown.

    Some good news on another front:

    Mr. Giuliani is virtually alone at this desperate hour. Supporters have abandoned him; once-friendly news organizations have banished him from their airwaves; and few have helped him fend off bankruptcy from numerous lawsuits and investigations. At 78 years old, the man who helped to lead New York City and the nation out of some of our most horrible days is a shadow of his old self… History will pay Rudy Giuliani his due for leading New York through its darkest hour. But it will also record that his exploitation of his actions on Sept. 11 led him to the abyss.

    h/t https://www.rawstory.com/giuliani-2658176470/

  30. 30.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Starfish:

    they are going to try to “Oh, but isn’t it sexist for him to talk over her?” for crap like this.

    You know, I don’t think I’ve ever heard them try that one.  My guess is that it’s not how they think.  Talking over women is invisible to them.  What resonates to them is their irritation when they say something bigoted to an Other and get called out for it, and as bigots they can only process it in an ‘us vs them’ mode.  So the crime must be disagreeing with a woman, not how you’re doing it or what you’re saying to her.

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Wag:

    I wouldn’t call that an epic battle. Battle implies a give and take between two well argued positions. Frankin rightly dominated her in an epic exposure of the frailty of her GQP positions her absolute bullshit. 

    Fixed.

  32. 32.

    Soprano2

    @NotMax: Do you fly straight to Maui from the mainland? My daughter-in-law told me she was looking at flights from Oahu to Hana (!!!). I said “Nonononono, look at a map of Maui!” , then more “nos” after that. And yeah, that sounds like a nightmare. Did that once between Houston and Denver trying to get to Springfield. Flew to St. Louis and drove home!

  33. 33.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    Question: Are any you as sick and tired of the wall-to-wall coverage of the QE2/KC3 drama as I am?

    Both CNN & MSNBC were doing it, so out of desperation I tried Fox and they were doing the same damn thing.

    Sure, cover the story, but that doesn’t require 40+ minutes out of every hour dedicated to it. I’m sure that there are other stories (Ukraine, anyone?) that are just as deserving of coverage.

  37. 37.

    Feathers

    When a “big-time agent” once argued over a bill, Mr. Carney showed just how much he valued social prestige, a fellow Elaine’s bartender, Kevin Duffy Philzone, recalled in a phone interview.

    “Do you know who I am?” the agent demanded during a heated exchange with Mr. Carney.

    Mr. Carney climbed up on the bar, clanged a spoon on a bottle, silencing the restaurant, and announced: “This man does not know who he is. Does anybody know who he is? We need help.”

    Yeah, FTFNYT (which my autocorrect recognizes as a word), but this is a great obituary and well worth reading. I have some Carney cousins, so I’m kinda claiming the guy. Link to tweet with screenshot.

  42. 42.

    CaseyL

    @Kelly: ​
     

    A couple of hikers who were climbing Mt. Baring in Washington State got trapped by the Echo Lake fire. They had to GPS/bushwack their way down, past a couple of terrifying cliff descents.

    They made it out and posted the video to show and share their mistakes. The first and most consequential of which was: they didn’t halt their initial ascent and go back down immediately when they saw the smoke, thinking the fire was at least a few ridges away. They didn’t realize how fast fires can spread across forested mountain ridges.

    I’ve never climbed Mt. Baring, but Lake Barton is right under the mountain and I’ve hiked that many times. It was rather a shock to realize that one of my favorite trails is so close to the fire that it might get burned.

  43. 43.

    Joseph Patrick Lurker

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):

    Question: Are any you as sick and tired of the wall-to-wall coverage of the QE2/KC3 drama?

    It’s flat-out junk food journalism.

    As several people noted on Twitter, ABC, CBS, and NBC aired KC3 speech while ignoring Biden’s speech about Restoring the Soul of America.

    The executives who run our major broadcast news organizations are scumbags who’ll never pass up an opportunity to shamelessly pander to the lowest common denominator.

  44. 44.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @WaterGirl: It’s not sexist however to note that these women do have a particular look that is based on White Supremacy/Patriarchy and the beauty standards that those things demand.  There’s such a large, wide and wonderful range of appearances of women throughout the world, that are all, truly worth celebrating, but these toxic mouth-pieces of the GOP always fall into a very narrow sliver of that spectrum because they must be acceptable to Conservatives (and more generally to White People).  You see much the same thing in fashion, Hollywood etc., but it’s especially notable with right-wing talking heads.  You don’t get a position on FoxNews or wherever without meeting some pretty specific standards, which speaks volumes about their viewers and the movement as a whole.

  45. 45.

    Math Guy

    The reason the legitimacy of the court is in question is not because we don’ t like the decisions, but because the reasoning behind those decisions is flawed.

  46. 46.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @hilts:

    History will pay Rudy Giuliani his due for leading New York through its darkest hour.

    When the emergency communications/command center was in ruins because he insisted it be put in the WTC so he could use it to hook up with the (now) third-ex-Mrs Giuliani because the then current second Mrs Giuliani had the bad taste to be occupying Gracie Mansion with their children, instead of in Brooklyn where the relevant agencies told him it should be? I certain hope so

    Giuliani’s office had a humidor for cigars and mementos from City Hall, including a fire horn, police hats and fire hats, as well as monogrammed towels in his bathroom. His suite was bulletproofed and he visited it often, even on weekends, bringing his girlfriend Judi Nathan there long before the relationship surfaced. He had his own elevator. Great concern was expressed in writing that the platform in the press room had to be high enough to make sure his head was above the cameras. It’s inconceivable that the hands-on mayor’s fantasy command center was shaped—or sited—by anyone other than him.

  47. 47.

    NotMax

    @Soprano2

    Generally try to arrange one short layover going and one or two short layovers returning. Get to stretch the balky legs a bit while waiting to board the second or third flight (as well as make use of a rest room bigger than a breadbox).

    Fly into Hana from Oahu? Not no way, not no how.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    @Joseph Patrick Lurker:

    The executives who run our major broadcast news organizations are scumbags who’ll never pass up an opportunity to shamelessly pander to the lowest common denominator.

     
    I disagree. I don’t think they cater to me at all.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Frankensteinbeck: If memory serves, there was a memo put out by one of the RW think tanks, back in the day of the Great Clenis Hunt, on how to handle oneself on the then new cable chat/shout shows, when the MS in MSNBC still stood for MicroSoft. Among other recommendations: Never stop talking, but never raise your voice, make your opponent look like the nutty one as they raise their voice trying to drown you out.

  52. 52.

    Currants

    @WaterGirl:

    @TaMara

    and I as a former blonde am compelled to agree.  UGH.

    On a different note: do we have any links to postcard writing for elections?  I seem to remember one or more on the front page, but that was before the spring apocalypse.

  54. 54.

    hilts

    @zhena gogolia:

    I know that Trumpenstein will never serve a day in prison, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Rudy Nosferatu Ghouliani will get some time behind bars even if it’s only six months behind bars. He needs more public humiliation for all the outrageous bullshit he pulled after the 2020 election.

  55. 55.

    Scout211

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman): Are any you as sick and tired of the wall-to-wall coverage of the QE2/KC3 drama as I am?

    Well, I would be except for the fact that I haven’t watched a cable or network news broadcast for the last ten years.  I was already sick-and-tired of the infotainment version of the news by then.  So I stopped watching.

    I do peruse the online news sites for national and local news so I can pick and choose what I read, but I refuse to watch talking heads tell me what they (and their owners) think I should know.

    Note: Another reason I appreciate this blog:  If I miss an important story in the news, the front-pagers and the commenters will post a link or discuss the story here. A full service blog, this one.

  56. 56.

    NotMax

    @evodevo

    Stepsister’s husband (who has ALS) can no longer swallow his saliva. Doctors inject botox into his salivary glands every few months and that has not stopped but very considerably lessened any drooling.

  58. 58.

    Splitting Image

    @MagdaInBlack:

    I am once again reminded why I do not miss having a television.

    Me too.

    Fortunately for the royal-haters, Charles is a long-time environmentalist, so the minute he starts trying to use his new-found status to advocate fighting global warming (or anything, really), the TV networks will forget he and the rest of his family even exist.

  63. 63.

    Starfish

    @Frankensteinbeck: They are trying to score double points off the concepts of racism and sexism because they don’t believe any of that stuff is real. They are running more women and people of color as candidates because they think they are going to get some Democratic voters that way, the same way that Democrats keep running white dudes with military backgrounds because they want to get those Republican voters.

  64. 64.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    @Joseph Patrick Lurker:

    Oh don’t get me wrong, her passing and the consequences of it are genuinely news. What’s not news are all of the ancillary “stories” that they’ve wasted literally days digging up. Honestly, is talking to a former Buckingham Palace chef about QE2’s dietary preferences actually newsworthy?

     

    As far as Biden’s speech goes, all 3 of the major news networks seem to have forgotten that we aren’t the UK or a Commonwealth country and that KC3’s speech doesn’t affect us nearly as much as what POTUS had to say.

  65. 65.

    eversor

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    And yet it wasn’t the R’s that drove him out of the senate.  They provided the ammo but it was the D’s that loaded it, aimed it, and fired it with glee.

    They knew we’d take the shot.  They knew we’d kill one of our own to prove a moral point and they damn well knew there were people who’d pull the trigger to take out a rival in a presidential campaign.

    They read us and played us perfectly and like chumps we took the bait and someone for their own personal ambitions did it.  And then we were sans Franken, who would have been a good counter to Trump as Franken is a legit TV item and we got steam fucking rolled.

    This was a team killing full stop.

  70. 70.

    zhena gogolia

    @Jackie: That article is very misleading. These are representatives from St. Petersburg and Moscow, and they have no power over Putin. The St. P. ones have already been called in to the police. It’s a good thing, but it’s far from a palace coup.

  71. 71.

    NotMax

    @Splitting Image

    Charles is a long-time environmentalist

    Who has not made the slightest effort to install solar panels on any properties over which he has control, with the exception (AFAIK) of the stables at one residence.

    Put yer money where yer mouth is, Chuckie.

  73. 73.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    Zelenskyy to russian terrorists:

    Even through the impervious darkness Ukraine and the civilized world clearly see these terrorist acts.
    Deliberate and cynical missile strikes on civilian critical infrastructure. Not a single military facility. Disarmed Kharkiv and Donetsk regions. In Zaporizhzhya, Dnipropetrovsk, Sumy – partial problems with power.

    Do you still think we are the “Aden people”?
    Do you still think you can intimidate, break us, make us into action?
    Did you really not understand anything?
    Didn’t understand who we are? What are we for? What are we talking about?
    Read it on your lips:
    Without gas or without you? Without you.
    Without or without the light? Without you.
    Without water or without you? Without you.
    Without food or without you? Without you.
    Cold, hunger, darkness and thirst – for us not as scary and deadly as your “friendship and brotherhood”.

    But history will put everything in place.
    And we will with gas, lights, water and food.. and WITHOUT you!

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: +1

    To pile on:

    Giuliani was a monster.

    HRC probably did much more substantive good for NYC after 9/11 than anyone else – fighting to get more funding to rebuild the city, and health care to the people lied to by W’s administration about the safety of the environment at the WTC, in the recovery bills.

    It’s all been memory-holed, of course, because women should be home making sandwiches.

    Don’t accept the framing that RG was a good guy, that he and only he could have met the moment, and all the rest. He was, and remains, a monster who wanted to cancel the election and stay in office.

    Never stop fighting the gaslighting.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    JoyceH

    I watched the Franken-Stewart exchange in real time, couple observations. First, good on Franken to emphasize that the Supreme Court is perceived to be biased because of the two stolen seats, and yes, Alice, they were STOLEN. I only wish he’d also added that it’s not a perception of bias, it’s actual bias – when you have a justice who refuses to recuse himself on a case where his own wife is directly involved, what else can you call it?

    Second, good on Jim Acosta for allowing the debate to continue unfettered. I really like Acosta, and if orders are coming down from the new CNN leadership to tone down the too truthful coverage of Republicans, that has apparently completely cowed Jake Tapper, well, Acosta isn’t having it, at all. I’ve been trying to catch him on the weekends now, on the assumption that he won’t be at CNN much longer. I’d love to be wrong.

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    @CaseyL: Buddy and I were once in far SW Yosemite for a few days, hiking out of Cherry Lake. Several days in we began smelling, then seeing smoke, then ash-fall.

    Now what?

    We headed back towards the trailhead and camped on a ridge that was mostly granite with scattered stands of trees, so the fire could not surprise us (nice plan, that). Hiked out the next day to more smoke and ash, arriving at the car we could see the fire was contained in a valley one ridge over–the highway drive out was blocked by fire equipment and so we spent several hours on a Forest Service road detour, emerging from the mess about midnight with hours left to drive home. (Pro tip: never order “steak” at Denny’s.)

    While we might have been indignant at fire ending our trip early, a firefighter was killed during the response so complaining was right out. My takeaway is that you can be in danger with NO IDEA what the proper response is. It could have meant waiting on an open ridge and hope for a heli to come snatch us off the mountain. (a plug for filling out that backcountry permit)

  78. 78.

    m.j.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It isn’t just Republicans that didn’t want Franken around. The folks running the show at LGM have an active hatred of Al Franken.

    I’m afraid this a case of both sides do it, but for different irrational reasons.

  79. 79.

    Chetan Murthy

    @eversor: spare me your bullshit, fucknugget.  The record speaks for itself: the *female* Senators who took the lead on this are *on the fucking record* as having been reluctant to act, until a FEMALE SENATE STAFFER attested that she also had been harrassed by (might have been groped, I don’t remember) Franken.  That is what broke  the dam.

    This bullshit about “a team killing” is just that: bullshit.  The Dems are, if anything, IF ANYTHING, the party of women’s rights, of the rights of people of color, of the rights of gender minorities.

    Stop eating shit, dude.  Your eyes are solid brown.

  80. 80.

    JoyceH

    @Another Scott:

    Don’t accept the framing that RG was a good guy,

    I’ve always thought Giuliani’s reputation for heroism was entirely undeserved. He was visible on 9/11 for the sole reason that he ignored the advice of all his emergency managers and sited his emergency command post in the exact location that terrorists had already targeted once and promised to attack again. He was out on the streets because he had no place else to go! But that looked like heroism on a day when the national leadership had all bolted down a hidey hole and the White House was being commanded by Karen Hughes.

  82. 82.

    Dan B

    @CaseyL: My partner worked at the resort at Packwood Lake.  His grandmother had the concession.  It’s threatened by the fire near White Pass.

  83. 83.

    The Moar You Know

    You can see why the Rs were so intent of getting him out of the Senate.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  But they didn’t.  The Democratic party forced him to resign from the Senate.  The Republicans never had a say in it.  We did this to ourselves.  I’m not going to forget that.  WE DID IT TO OURSELVES, largely to promote one Dem senator’s agenda, and to attempt to placate the Republican party.  Which was a fool’s dream.

    We can never take our majority for granted again, and we cannot allow that to EVER happen again no matter how heinous the charge levied against the Congress member/Senator.  MAKE the Republicans do the dirty work if it is to be done.  Don’t fucking volunteer to do it for them.

  84. 84.

    hilts

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I included those words from Rudy’s biographer Andrew Kirtzman to provide context for his assessment of Rudy’s trajectory from 9/11 to the present.

    In my personal opinion Rudy is a world class scumbag with no redeeming qualities at all. I give him absolutely zero credit for his actions on 9/11.

    Time magazine’s decision to name him Person of the Year was disgusting and outrageous and it deserves to live in journalistic infamy. Rudy’s selection for this honor was simply motivated out of public relations. Time magazine was desperate to find anyone other than Osama Bin Laden to name as Person of the Year because they wanted to avoid the same fury and backlash from readers they’d previously received upon selecting Ayatollah Khomeini as Person of the Year.

     

     

  86. 86.

    CaseyL

    @trollhattan: “Several days in” means an immediate turnaround wasn’t possible.  It was very smart for you to find a place less likely to burn and hunker down!

    The two guys in the video were on a day hike – and they did call for help but: fire and wind.  No heli or rescue team could get to them.  They were brave and smart (other than not turning around right away)…. and very, very lucky.  And they know it.  I think they’ll cherish every day from now on.

    @Dan B:  I saw that.  Needless to say, Mt. Rainier is another of my treasured hiking spots.  A few years ago, a friend and I stayed at an inn in Packwood, so we could get to the trailheads in 20 minutes instead of 2.5 hours.  So of course now I’m worried for all the places in Packwood, and worried for the park, and worried for all the parks now that giant summer wildfires are the new normal.

  87. 87.

    livewyre

    @Chetan Murthy: This bullshit about “a team killing” is just that: bullshit. The Dems are, if anything, IF ANYTHING, the party of women’s rights, of the rights of people of color, of the rights of gender minorities.

    Very important point and one worth keeping in mind – thank you. In the end it’s about rights, not about who shot first. I think our charming little friend is trying to rouse up more gunfire.

  89. 89.

    Feathers

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman): I don’t have cable, so I’m getting my news from a wildly pro Harry’n’Meghan gossip blog I follow.

    Realizing I’ve been following the royals since the Queen’s visit during the Ford Administration. PBS broadcast some of it live and I remember how horrified my mother was when the band struck up “The Lady is a Tramp” while Gerald was dancing with Liz. The Washington Post had a fair amount of coverage and I kept up Vanity Fair when I went off to college. It’s one of those topics where when you’ve been following along for nearly 50 years, reading new material tells you as much about the writer as it provides new information.

    But, yes, the glowing suck ups do bother me. Old enough to remember when there was a minor scandal when Nancy Reagan’s Protocol person knelt to one of the royals. “The blood of brave American soldiers was proudly shed so that American women would never have to curtsy to any foreign potentate” is how I remember the theme of the day rubbing. We could use a great deal more of that attitude. Of course, there was equal outrage when Nancy herself didn’t curtsy to the Royals when she attended the royal wedding. Yes, that woman did get one thing right.

  92. 92.

    Kelly

    @CaseyL: In 2003 I planned a leisurely backpack from the north end of Mt Jefferson Wilderness at Jeff Park to the south end at Santiam Pass. Looked to be on the Warm Springs Reservation. Whilst cooking supper at Jeff Park my first day out I saw a column of smoke SE of Mt Jeff. It went away after a few hours. I decided it was probably an intentional logging slash burn. All clear in the morning. Packed up and headed south on the PCT. Top of a ridge a few miles N of Pamelia Lake everything south of me was buried in smoke. The ridgetop was above the smoke. Nearest trailhead was Pamelia which is also close to highway 22 so I hustled out that way. Met a couple that were bailing out and gave me a ride out to town. That was the B&B fire which burned south past Santiam Pass totaling 88,000 acres.

  94. 94.

    WaterGirl

    @Math Guy:

    The reason the legitimacy of the court is in question is not because we don’ t like the decisions, but because the reasoning behind those decisions is flawed made up bullshit.

    Just a small improvement.

  95. 95.

    trollhattan

    @CaseyL:

    Yeah, been awhile but probably a 5 or 6-nighter into the Park’s far NW (said SW earlier, which should be a caution for anybody going for a “nice walk” with me into wilderness) and beyond, to Emigrant Wilderness.

    Once we realized there was a fire it was two days hike out, regardless of which direction. Our trailhead had us heading towards it, so committing to that was a virtual coin flip.

    Should add I now tote one of these.

  102. 102.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl: see my comments. These are representatives not Kremlin officials, and it looks as if the St. Petersburg ones were just called in but not arrested—yet.

  105. 105.

    hilts

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I see Biden accepted an invitation to the queen’s funeral. WH says Jill will accompany.

    Jake Tapper and the entire motherfucking White House Correspondents Assn will be inconsolable by Trump’s absence from this delegation.

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    I’d hate to be on Putin’s personal staff these days.

    #Russia  has just fired Lt. General Berdnikov, its commander of the western military district. He’s been in post for 15 days.

  113. 113.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WhatsMyNym: I saw Ian McKellan on TV many years ago, I think Bill Maher’s show, and he said he was getting rebates from whoever runs the electrical grid in London from the energy generated by his solar panels, and he deadpanned to the audience, “In bloody London!”
    From 2010:

    Prince Charles was today granted permission to install solar panels on the roof of Clarence House, his 180-year-old London home.
    The height of the parapets means the equipment cannot be seen from the ground and experts have been called in to ensure the panels do not damage the Grade-II listed building off Pall Mall. […]

    He already runs cars on biodiesel made from used cooking fat and has converted his classic Aston Martin to run on bio-ethanol produced from surplus British wine.

    I’ll let others make the jokes about British wine. Unless… that is the joke.

  114. 114.

    NeenerNeener

    I just came back from getting the new bivalent COVID shot at Target. It’s a full dose like the first 2 shots, but it’s made up of half the OG vaccine and half the new Omicron vaccine. I’m hoping I don’t have the chills and fatigue I had with the first two shots.

  115. 115.

    Mo MacArbie

    Alas, Franken. In an alternate universe where he is still politically viable and Jill Stein is a Democrat, they’re natural running mates.

  118. 118.

    Citizen Alan

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t know which is worse, that many women are actually like that, or that others are willing to play the role.

    I often despair that the Patriarchy will ever fade away because too many women profit from it and so will fight for it. There are simply too many Alice Stewarts who are content to see most American women reduced to the status of Offred because they derive satisfaction enough from being Serena Joy.

  119. 119.

    ian

    @m.j.:

    I’m afraid this a case of both sides do it, but for different irrational reasons.

    That sure is a strange way to describe wanting someone to resign from their senate seat for sexually inappropriate touching and photographing themselves doing sexually explicit things to a sleeping woman.

  123. 123.

    StringOnAStick

    @Kelly: Heavy smoke above Bend, but high enough to not be too bad at ground level, we’re at 123 right now with an orange light outside.  The Cedar Creek fire is in such tough terrain it is defying g control attempts.

    I agree; wildland fire fighters deserve the same pay and benefits as the city versions.  When I was in college in the 80’s it was a summer job with potentially high pay and a short season, great for a summer job.  Now its for nearly all year, much more dangerous and the pay is very poor.  I’ve heard stories of them living out of their private vehicles because they can’t afford housing on their wages.  The West is depending more and more on them for our communities survival; we need to pay them what they are worth.

  125. 125.

    Miki

    @TaMara: Nah – she just looks like every other white woman with a curling iron and someone to wield it.

    It’s also why I’m reluctant to venture out for job interviews unless it’s remote or has a uniform because, jeebus, that is so sad.

  126. 126.

    Another Scott

    @Mo MacArbie: Speaking of bumperstickers, has anyone seen a good design for a Roevember sticker?  Ones I’ve seen thus far (Google image search) have seemed too busy.

    Maze Dancer?

    Anyone?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128.

    Heidi Mom

    In an earlier thread someone said, IIRC, that there is no institute of Ukrainian studies at any university in the U.S.  Not so–Harvard has one.  (I’m reading The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine by Serhii Plokhy, and the mini-bio on the back cover names him as director of Harvard’s Ukrainian Research Institute.)

  129. 129.

    Steeplejack

    Late to the thread, but I’m glad for this opportunity to clear up the whole Al Franken thing once and for all.

    First, it’s important to remember . . .

    🧵 1/78

  130. 130.

    Expletive Deleted

    @Dan B: Apparently the climate is a factor, but not the only one, for the historical lack of English wine. It’s been made here on and off from the Romans onwards, but the Reformation nearly wiped it out since most wine was made by monasteries.

    There’s a lovely little vineyard called Three Choirs near where I used to live in Hampshire, very nice whites. I’m not going to rush out and buy any English reds just yet though.

  131. 131.

    Miki

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yup. Give the guy some credit for recognizing a Hobson’s Choice when he saw it. Do I wish he were still in the Senate? Fuck, yeah. Do I wish he hadn’t been a sexist shit? Fuck, yeah. Did he have to resign? Looking back from 2022, nope.

    What is it they say about hindsight? Blame the women, right?

    Wrong.

  132. 132.

    zhena gogolia

    @Heidi Mom: Harvard has had one forever. I bet there are others, I’d have to do a search.

    ETA: Columbia has one, and there are a lot of universities that teach Ukrainian language and culture, like Indiana U. It has to be a large research university to afford it.

  134. 134.

    frosty

    @NotMax: Fly into Hana from Oahu? Not no way, not no how.

    I’m working on plans for a Hawaii vacation. How am I supposed to get from one island to another without flying?

  140. 140.

    eversor

    @Miki:

    It wasn’t the women who did it, the party did it.  USO shows are inherently bad because they are pandering to a frat house with guns at core.   I’m not a fan of them looking back on it.  But I know enough about them to realize the context that was all in and I’m fairly certain for the “tit gropping” that was not actually groping she was in on it because that shit is passed off as promotions and everyone fucking knows that.   Plus the “victim” was a right winger who had done more provactive things.

    It was a hit job, an obvious hit job.  Done full well knowing it was bullshit and would result in a team killing and while that could have been avoided it was lept on by someone with presidential ambitions.   It also took away eyeballs from bigger issues of actual assault and focused on “look at this Jewish pervert harassing a white conservative woman” and people bought that hook line and sinker and that’s another old racial trope.

    I’ve been to USO shows and they were pretty vulgar and sexualized back then.  I’m not excusing Franken the whole situation was fucked up.  But there were better ways to handle it than joining in the ratfucking.  But “hey, maybe something is going wrong in USO shows” doesn’t take out a senator of the other side or a presidential rival from my side so that did not happen.

  141. 141.

    Another Scott

    @Scout211: Thanks.

    I’m just looking for a single word, like:

    RoeVEMBER

    or something similar.  I’ll keep poking around.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  142. 142.

    J R in WV

    @ian:

    That sure is a strange way to describe wanting someone to resign from their senate seat for sexually inappropriate touching and photographing themselves doing sexually explicit things to a sleeping woman.

    Pretty sure that the actual facts of the matter were that she wasn’t asleep, and Al did  not actually touch her at all. Photos of clowns acting out on tour are not the same as photos of sexual assault.

    But you do you…

  143. 143.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Sometimes it sucks doing The Right Thing, but we do it anyway because we’re not Them, and we don’t want to be Them.

  144. 144.

    BigJimSlade

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah, flying west can be that way. I’m counting from leaving the hotel.   We left early because we had heard all about crowded airport issues, but Geneva was fine.  A 2-hour wait to go through passport control in Montreal wasn’t so lovely. Lots of grumpy older Americans muttering about people not wanting to work, plus a delay, then waiting for/catching a shuttle to the parking lot at a nearby hotel, then driving 20 minutes home.

  145. 145.

    Miki

    @eversor: Ugh. Regardless of the hit there was also the target. And this is why I ❤️ Al – he owned the assholishness. Doesn’t mean he should have resigned, but does mean he’s a Mensch.

    BTW – I’m a 96B2LGM, 1974 – 1977, vet  with plenty of USO experience. It was horrible. That time they had the female recruits walk a literal gauntlet in Basic Training was, well ….

    Yeah.

    Grrrr.

  146. 146.

    Soprano2

    @frosty: You fly into Kahului, it’s the biggest city on Maui. It’s a twisting one hour drive to anywhere from Hana – that’s what it’s famous for.  Unless you live in Hana you wouldn’t want to fly into there.

  147. 147.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @frosty: I took a ferry from Maui to Lanai when I was in Hawaii about 7 years ago. I imagine there are boats that connect the main islands though I have no idea how they compare to flying in cost or convenience.

  149. 149.

    Soprano2

    @eversor: I hated that he resigned without any kind of investigation showing he actually did something wrong. I think it’s not good when a mob forces someone out of an elected office on such thin evidence,  especially when the whole thing was started by right-wingers with an agenda. Have an investigation and then if the evidence warrants resign. I also thought it was strange that the claims of harassment stopped as soon as he resigned, as if that was their only point.  But YMMV.

  150. 150.

    Geminid

    My impression is that Mr. Franken went through depression after he resigned from the Senate. I think he bounced back and I’m glad for him.

  151. 151.

    Soprano2

    @ian: I don’t think a claim that he squeezed someone’s waist is sexual harassment. Most of the claims were like that. There should have been an investigation, convicting someone without one is a bad precedent IMHO.

  153. 153.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Expletive Deleted:  Another factor was the medieval wool trade. Wool was shipped in bulk to Flanders from England. The boats used needed to come back with some kind of valuable bulk goods on the return journey. The obvious answer was to ship relatively inexpensive French wine. As the price of French wine came down, English wine became less desirable.

    Until the Dissolution, the monasteries were mostly making wine for the Eucharist, and for the monks of course, because it reduced their outward cash flow.

  154. 154.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: Franken could have stuck it out. The allegations would have been aired out in Ethics Commitee hearings. He would have been censured at most, and then it would be up to the voters in his next primary to decide on the matter.

    I don’t think that Franken has addressed the allegations since, but that doesn’t neccesarily prove anything. I can’t blame him for wanting to turn the page.

  155. 155.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: That’s what I think should have happened, but instead a precedent was set that if people yelled loud enough online Democrats would drive one of their own out without even a hearing, conviction without a trial. It was a bad look.

  156. 156.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: One woman interviewed by a Minnesota newspaper told how she encountered Franken at the state and posed with him for a photogragh. She said that when the camera flashed he grabbed her ass. Then he said, “take another one,” and did it again.

    This was an uncorroborated allegation by one woman. But there were others who also said that Franken was, to use an old term, a “masher.”

  157. 157.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: It was Franken’s Democratic Senate colleagues who forced his resignation. I don’t think they would have pressured Franken to resign were not for the Alabama special Senate election. Rightly or wrongly, they thought he was an impediment to Doug Jones’ election.

    Absent that circumstance, I think Franken would have faced his accusers in an Ethics Commitee hearing, and if most of them testified he would have gotten a formal reprimand. Then Franken would have faced a primary challenge. I think he would have lost, but we’ll never know.

  160. 160.

    The Lodger

    @Starfish: Let’s not attempt to limit Franken’s ciriticism of Supreme Court corruption to “women’s issues.” I’m glad people are still listening to him, even if he’s out of the Senate now.

  161. 161.

    dnfree

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Do you have prosopagnosia?  I do, the hereditary kind, apparently.  I have trouble identifying people if I see them out of context, but it reasoned up in movies. If there are two dark-haired men in a movie, one of them had better have a mustache or very distinctive hair style, or I’ll keep asking my family, “Which one is that?”  I found out it was hereditary when my father made the same remark about blondes in a movie (minus the mustache part).

    Oliver Sacks, the neurologist, had a very bad case.  He toldof once having a session with his longtime therapist, coming down the elevator, and seeing a man in the lobby who looked vaguely familiar. It was his therapist.

  163. 163.

    Paul in KY

    @eversor: Franken could have stayed, but he didn’t. He also deserves some blame for giving in to the jackels (plus his stupid joke attempt that got him into that mess).

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