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New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Garbage Gov

Garbage Gov

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I’ll try to keep this brief since someone else is working on a post about it, but I wanted to note that Ron DeSantis is a smarmy, malevolent glob of lunchmeat factory floor waste packed into a rancid bratwurst skin and encased in an ill-fitting blue suit. The Miami Herald:

In a surprise announcement Wednesday evening, Gov. Ron DeSantis’ office took credit for sending two planes with migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, apparently jump-starting an immigration program without revealing any details.

The governor told reporters three weeks ago that the program was on standby, and the Florida Department of Transportation, which is overseeing the immigrant relocation program, said it had no details about how it would work yet.

“Florida can confirm that two planes with illegal immigrants that arrived in Martha’s Vineyard today were part of the state’s relocation program to transport illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities,” Taryn Fenske, the governor’s communication director, said in a statement.

As more details emerge, the scale of the depravity involved in this stunt grows. First, we shouldn’t assume the people shipped to Martha’s Vineyard to advance DeSantis’s relentless quest for the Oval Office are “illegal immigrants” (not that they would deserve to be treated as pawns in a cheap political stunt if they were). Reports say most are Venezuelans, so they are likely asylum seekers and may have been released in the U.S. legally while they await their court date.

Some of the folks dumped in the Vineyard said their flight originated in Texas and made a stop on a tarmac in Florida, but otherwise, the passengers had not been in the state. So far, I haven’t seen a report that claims any of the people on the planes had been living in Florida. So why are Florida taxpayers paying for chartered planes to fly people from Texas to Massachusetts? Because DeSantis is running for president on our dime, that’s why.

One account from a migrant says a Spanish-speaking woman lured people at a San Antonio shelter onto the planes with false promises of a free flight to Boston to get expedited work papers and housing assistance. Instead, the group — which included babies and preschool-age children! — were unceremoniously dumped on an island with no advance warning to local authorities, who had to scramble to find food, shelter and medical care.

Fox News got a heads-up in the form of exclusive video of the planes landing so DeSantis could crow about the stunt on that channel. It’s straight-up sociopathic behavior, orchestrated solely to give the deplorabble hate-boners, and the stunt was pulled at the expense of vulnerable people who Florida Republicans claim are fleeing Joe Biden-style communism in their home countries.

But to end on a grace note, the people of Martha’s Vineyard stepped up to help and quickly found beds, food, medical care and toys for the kids while they figure out what happens next. The immigrants found more compassion and kindness from blue Massachusetts than they would ever find among Trump-humping Bible-thumping DeSantis voters in Florida.

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

279Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    This might play with the haters, but from what little I’ve seen, it’s activating the non-haters as well. I think people may be tiring of Republican stunts.

  4. 4.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Making lemonade outta this lemon, yeah, the compassionate response by blue staters is what can be highlighted here.  Nice example of how we do things.  That example and message is lost, of course, on the bigoted, white haters.

  6. 6.

    trollhattan

    I’m clearly unaware of the size of Martha’s Vineyard because I did not know it had a large airstrip–but rich folks who have beachfront homes need to get to those homes, don’t they. What do rich Republican beachfront homeowners think of this stunt?

    Martha’s Vineyard can fend off future such flights by building an Abortionplex next to the airfield.

  7. 7.

    WaterGirl

    DeathSantis is nothing but a piece of human trash.  Which is kind of ironic because he is treating other decent people like they are actual trash.

    What a disgusting creature.  Here, have a thermometer, everyone.

    Florida – DeSantis: One-term Governor / Zero-term President

  8. 8.

    ian

    Har, Har, dump them on Martha’s Vineyard, that will own the libs!

    orchestrated solely to give the deplorabble hate-boners, and the stunt was pulled at the expense of vulnerable people

    Unfortunately sums up about 95% of what conservatives do these days.  Also, I think there is a typo in there BC.

  10. 10.

    Yutsano

    Apparently the Venezuelans in South Florida are PISSED at this stunt. It annoys me that a Republican will be the one to get the credit for getting them home. Fuck Charlie Baker*.

    *My phone suggestion turned up Baka there. I find that curiously acceptable.

  12. 12.

    germy shoemangler

    Florida and Texas’ plan to transport migrants to “leftist” cities culminated in a pair of cruel publicity stunts in a 12-hour span this week, after Texas Gov. Greg Abbott ordered two busloads to be dropped off outside the official residence of Vice President Kamala Harris. The buses that arrived in Washington, D.C. on Thursday morning carried about 100 migrants, Fox News reported, most of whom were nationals from Venezuela, Uruguay, Colombia and Mexico.

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    @ian: If you mean “deplorabble,” that was on purpose, a portmanteau intended to combine “deplorable” and “rabble.”

  15. 15.

    Emma from Florida

    Democrats should publicize this relentlessly. These are Venezuelans,  biggest conservatives in the state, Republicans all. Smack them in the nose with the facts.

  16. 16.

    PaulWartenberg

    I have a question: Is it illegal to spend state money to perform an act designed purely for electioneering/campaigning interests? Where did the $12 million for this stunt come from, Florida state funds? Was it legal to use it in other states (Texas and Massachusetts)?

    I’ve seen twitter statements that what DeSantis and Abbott did here violates human trafficking laws, and I do hope the Justice Department investigates this crap. >:(

    SHAME ON ANY FLORIDIAN WHO VOTES FOR THE SADIST DESANTIS. 

  17. 17.

    Betsy

    As throughout history, these unfortunate people will probably thrive in the north where they would have been taken advantage of, treated like a commodity, and mistreated in the south.  I’m not excusing nationwide racism and cruelty AT ALL, but I’ve read enough slave narratives to see what a difference a culture of commodification makes.  (As compared to valuing people as people)

  23. 23.

    Jerzy Russian

    I wanted to note that Ron DeSantis is a smarmy, malevolent glob of lunchmeat factory floor waste packed into a rancid bratwurst skin and encased in an ill-fitting blue suit.

    I just wanted to see that again. Christ, what an asshole!

  25. 25.

    rikyrah

    Some of the folks dumped in the Vineyard said their flight originated in Texas and made a stop on a tarmac in Florida, but otherwise, the passengers had not been in the state. So far, I haven’t seen a report that claims any of the people on the planes had been living in Florida. So why are Florida taxpayers paying for chartered planes to fly people from Texas to Massachusetts?

     

    I really do want someone to explain it to me.

     

    They were in TEXAS.

    TEXAS.

    HOW did people in TEXAS wind up in MASSACHUSETTS, on planes sent by FLORIDA?

  29. 29.

    NorthLeft

    As a plus sixty year old Canadian, I have witnessed wave after wave of immigrants come to Canada and make this country a much better place to live. They have rejuvenated struggling towns and cities, and made Canada a far more interesting and enjoyable country.

    Our continued growth and success are almost completely dependent on immigration. It is an ongoing frustration that our governments mostly fail to give this issue the support it requires.

  30. 30.

    Spanky

    This is (economic) war between the states. Think our shitty media will point that out? And I DO hope that Massachusetts (metaphorically) starts to shoot back.

  31. 31.

    Betsy

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I recall a slave narrative I read that talked about the newspapers and magazines that a skilled yeoman boat’s carpenter subscribed to read in his tidy New England abode.  That man had been enslaved or was a free person of color.  The narrative spoke of how the reading material would be above the level of almost any “genteel” white southerner who prided  himself on his fancy house and expensive possessions.  I was struck by the contrast of cultural norms: one culture valuing the improvement of one’s own skills and mind, and self-cultivation, and the other culture valuing the zero-sum goal of harnessing (stealing) more “other-people’s labor” and buying fancier positional goods with it,  instead of acquiring skills and learning  and being a contributor to society – in a setting where ideally most everyone can do the same and we are all better off for it.

    I am still struck by this whenever I visit Boston and see all the billboards for trade school education, night school programs advertising to help you increase  your skills and licensures and wages — it’s like a direct historical  line.

  32. 32.

    lee

    An interesting tidbit about the start of this program in Texas:

    Initially it was voluntary for the immigrants (it might still be I don’t know). Often the immigrants would have relatives/contacts in NYC/Boston/DC/Chicago and so they actually benefited from this program. IIRC there was an immigrant that arrive with just ‘Chicago’ on a piece of paper. They actually were sent on a bus to Chicago.

    This did not play well with the bigots which is why I think there is now a change of tactics. Hopefully it is still voluntary.

    As a side note:
    One of the issues with many of the vacation/destination locations is they are running very short on workers. Workers can find jobs closer to their homes that pay almost as well. Inadvertently this little stunt might have just helped out Martha’s Vineyard.

  34. 34.

    KrackenJack

    It’s a small blessing that the party of Dunning-Kruger is unable to do things competently. As people dig into this it’s just going to get worse for Abbott and DeSantis. Regular people are paying attention and getting disgusted. Even the media is starting to do “GOP in disarray” headlines.

  35. 35.

    Ruckus

    @Ken:

    I had an entire paragraph that would likely get me banned so I’m starting this comment over.

    We should buy Ron a surplus WWII life raft, a bicycle pump, trunks and a ride out to say, pass the 200 mile limit and see how long it takes him to make it back to shore. No paddle, sunscreen, communications, although I am willing to leave one granola bar. If he makes it back to FL without help within one week, he remains governor, over a week he gets his own cell in a federal maximum security facility. Any assistance whatsoever and he has to start over.

  36. 36.

    Betsy

    @Spanky: You know what’s funny? Those people will probably do pretty well in Massachusetts. And likewise  Massachusetts will probably do pretty well with what those folks have to contribute.

    Side note (related): “Taxachusetts” actually has pretty reasonable or LOWER taxes compared with Southern states like mine.  Why?

    Because when earners make a lot of money in a high value-added economy,  you don’t have to have a high tax rate to get plenty of revenue.

  41. 41.

    JoyceH

    @rikyrah: ​
     

    They were in TEXAS.

    TEXAS.

    HOW did people in TEXAS wind up in MASSACHUSETTS, on planes sent by FLORIDA?

    Borrowed from Abbot, like hitting up your neighbor for a cup of sugar. “Hey, buddy, I’ve got this recipe for performative jackassery and it calls for fifty migrants and I’m fresh out…”

  42. 42.

    topclimber

    This time of year it is more likely year long residents, probably many not wealthy who are in MV now. They tend to be the folks helping out here, if MV is anything like theHamptons.

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    @Spanky:

    As I stated, I am not a lawyer nor anywhere close, although I did, a very, very long time ago help my next door neighbor study for the CA bar. And he actually passed. It is possible that if my memory was refreshed I might be able to remember one or two of the words. That might is doing a hell of a lot of work….

  45. 45.

    FlyingToaster

    The Commonwealth (God Save It) is being asked by Lawyers for Civil Rights to investigate this flight for human trafficing.  Per the Boston.com article.  LCR is full bore on this, and it’s likely that the AG’s office, in conjunction with the SoC’s office, will take it up.  I’d like the Feds to do it, but there’s a lot of animosity between Massachusetts and CPB, so we might be handling this one ourselves.

    I await Abbot’s and DeSantis’ perp walks.

  49. 49.

    JMG

    There are plenty of immigrants already on the Vineyard, and even more here on Cape Cod. There’s still a labor shortage, because of the cost of housing and the seasonality of much of the work, but my guess is our little region can absorb these folks quite easily and that most would thrive here, given the chance. Fifty isn’t really a lot of people. even on the Vineyard.

  50. 50.

    lee

    @MattF: ​
    There is some discussion on fark about the legality of it. Since it was not directly from/to immigration checkpoints it might be illegal.

  52. 52.

    matt

    I was thinking it would be nice to have an early parole program for violent offenders in California if the offenders agree to live in Texas for the remainder of their sentence.

  53. 53.

    JPL

    This is from a resident in Martha Vineyards, and he says it best.   Maybe a front pager will copy it so all can see.   They have magic keys to the kingdom, or so I heard.

    twitter link 

  55. 55.

    lowtechcyclist

    we shouldn’t assume the people shipped to Martha’s Vineyard to advance DeSantis’s relentless quest for the Oval Office are “illegal immigrants”

    No, his minion has said on his behalf that they’re illegal. If he’s admitting that he’s violated 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1324, and should be tried and sentenced to up to 5 years in the slammer, who am I to blow against the wind?

  56. 56.

    Motivated Seller

    Talk about the rot in America: the governors of other states making it harder to treat people with decency.

    I predict the following hot-take from pundit-class: “Officials in blue-states taken by surprise; should Desantis get recognized for his savvy gamemanship???”

    (updated)

  57. 57.

    TaMara

    @PaulWartenberg: I am still stumped – even though Adam has given me a good lesson on this, among other FL friends – how my experience with people in Cuba is so vastly different than the Cuban folk living in FL.

    I mean, like cannot wrap my head around it, mind-boggled, stunned by it.

  58. 58.

    FelonyGovt

    This stunt is truly disgusting, using human beings as a game token or a prop. Having been to Martha’s Vineyard years ago, I can attest that the people there are kind (if a little “dry”) and used to dealing with visitors. I’m sure the people will be fine there, but I’m still shaking my head about how someone could think this was a good idea.

    ETA and the link @JPL   posted bears out what I said about MV residents.

  59. 59.

    C Stars

    Eh. He did it to get attention and outrage because for the Trump party, whomsoever gets the most attention and outrage “wins” the news cycle. People who love cruel political stunts are DiSantis/Abbot fans anyway. Those who don’t see this for what it is. Seems like I read some conservative doodah somewhere lamenting the plunging birthrates in the US. Someone tucked deep in the rancid halls of the Claremont Institute understands that immigrants and immigration is good for the US. But the hate value is just too good to pass up.

  60. 60.

    FelonyGovt

    @TaMara: Don’t get me started. My husband is Cuban and has many relatives living in Miami and environs. Most of them are Republicans, some are evangelical born again Christians. We have as little as possible to do with any of them.

  62. 62.

    Antonius

    As a resident of the Commonwealth (God save it!) I am out of my mind incandescently angry at this stunt, even more so in that Boston has many more resources to draw upon for an incident like this, and it’s another 5 fucking minutes of flight time. As of now it is my religion that Abbot and DeSantis be turned into painfully obscure asterisks in American history that historians will have to spend weeks to uncover the smallest detail beyond all the dripping hatred of contemporary commenters.

  65. 65.

    bcw

    They should send a guy in topsiders and salmon-colored pants to the Martha Vineyard yacht club to ask hangers-on if they want to do the Miami-St Pete sailboat race and then put them in a plane and send them to Anaheim.  Turnabout is fair play.  The stoli riots at Adventureland would be devastating.

    I did like the fact that the Texas bus company (Wynne) Abbott hired to take immigrants to Chicago was charging $1500 a head when the Greyhound bus fare for the same trip is $240. Then again probably just another graft.

  66. 66.

    lowtechcyclist

    @MattF: Only if they are in the country illegally.

    But DeSantis’ minion said that’s the case.

    They’re here legally, so the actual transportation was legal.  Can’t indict the pilots of the planes.

    Now IANAL, but based on DeSantis’ apparent claim that they are in the U.S. illegally, ISTM he’s “engage[d] in any conspiracy to commit” that crime, even if he didn’t succeed because they were here legally.  His admitted intent, per his PR flack, is clear.

  68. 68.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    to quote from Kent in the previous thread,

    “None of them are undocumented or “illegal aliens”  They all have documents of some sort, mostly pending asylum claims that give them temporary residence status.”

    Nobody is “illegal”.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    @JPL: Good news for John McCain Stacy Abrams.

    Seriously, why would he go there unless he was feeling nervous about Republican voters showing up?

  71. 71.

    TriassicSands

    As always, there is no bottom to the Republican barrel and DeSantis is down there somewhere dragging things ever lower.

    One quibble, Betty. You’re too kind to DeSantis. (Just kidding.)

  73. 73.

    emmyelle

    I think what I like about this is that DeathSantis saw this as a twofer, both owning the libs and fucking over some immigrants. And it turns out to be a twofer in the sense that the “libs” of the Commonwealth get to show the whole goddam fucking world what kind of people we are and that these refugees are being cared for by people who see them as human beings

  74. 74.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: Thank you.   I got a little teary eyed when I read that earlier.   Sometimes it is easy to forget that there is a lot of good in our country.

  75. 75.

    Mike in NC

    Lately every GOP pol is decked out in Trumpwear: baggy ill-fitting blue suit, white shirt, and solid red too long necktie. What lack of taste and imagination they share.

  76. 76.

    Jager

    How hard would it be to convince some MAGATs, from Iowa, Arizona, Texas, and Wyoming that they are invited to a MAGA Celebration Weekend at Mar a Lago, load them on buses, and drop them off, unannounced at 1100 County Line Road, Palm Beach, FL, 33480.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    @Baud: Yesterday’s polls might have been a little to close for him.

    I still hope that trump complains about him again, but that doesn’t seem likely.   I didn’t listen to the tape.

  78. 78.

    Sandia Blanca

    @Anyway: Yes, please stop suggesting that Texas is a good dumping ground for MAGAts or felons. Better to send money to the campaigns for Beto O’Rourke (Gov) or Rochelle Garza (AG). We’re fighting to take our state back!

  79. 79.

    Zzyzx

    I’ll be honest. This stunt might have broken me.

    Obviously we’ve been building towards this for a while, but I don’t see how someone with my political sensibilities (one where I work with what I believe but also know that I’m not infallible so I want to have people who disagree with me to bounce ideas off of so they can point out assumptions I’ve made and where I might be naive) works in a climate where people are willing to screw with other’s lives like this and will get rewarded for it. My mind just can’t wrap itself around it.

  80. 80.

    FelonyGovt

    @Baud: Do most Republicans really want to ban contraception?That sounds unlikely to me. Although who knows what goes through their tumbleweed-filled minds.

  81. 81.

    Quiltingfool

    So sick of garbage people in charge.  My wish is that the evil they do comes back on them threefold (too harsh?  Nope).

    Since this is an open thread and we all need a ray of sunshine –

    Two ladies in my quilt guild each made stunning quilt art wall hangings depicting Ukrainian women, dressed in traditional clothing.  I wish I could share photos.  In one, a young lady sitting in front of a farm cottage (chickens were in the yard) was playing a stringed instrument.  The details of the instrument, clothing, cottage, were beautiful, and involved hand embroidery, trims, etc.  The other art quilt showed a girl carrying water, walking by a river, with mountains in the background – her clothing was embellished with Ukrainian embroidery designs.

    I showed them some of my work, but their work makes my efforts pale in comparison!  They are truly quilt artists, I take other peoples’ designs and modify them!

    I told them about the generosity of everyone here and how much money had been raised for Ukraine, and they were astonished.  I told them there were people here who would be crazy about their work.  They are like me – we live to make quilts and you only have so much room to keep them, so why not share the wealth?

    Who knows, they may want to do a Ukraine donation item in the future.  They have done that for another outfit and got burned (in that the organization let their pieces go for a piddling amount of money when they could have gotten more for charity).

    I was so excited to talk to others who care about Ukraine and want to help.  Really made my day.

  87. 87.

    Tony G

    @Emma from Florida: Absolutely.  There’s been a lot of bloviation during the past couple of years about the GOP “reaching out to Latino voters”.  I don’t think that this stunt by DeSantis and Abbot will help that effort.  The Latinos/Latinas who know tend to be hard-working and frugal, and are usually culturally conservative Catholics — much like the Italian immigrants of a century ago –,who might respond positively to the public image (not the sordid reality) of the Republican ideology.  But, unfortunately, Latinos/Latinas tend to have dark skin, so the lizard-brains of white supporters of Trump, DeSantis and Abbot demand that these people must suffer.  I guess that, again, Republican leaders are relying on voter suppression, their go-to solution to all problems.

  90. 90.

    TriassicSands

    @FelonyGovt:

    The Kansas abortion vote was a clear expression of how Repubicans, at least some, feel about abortion. Banning contraception is a step far beyond abortion, at least for people who understand how women become pregnant.

    Obviously, contraception is one great way to avoid the issue of abortion (almost completely), but who knows if most Republicans can figure that out.

    Still, I would expect an even greater support for contraception than for abortion. We may get to see if that is true.

  92. 92.

    Tony G

    @zhena gogolia: I hope so.  But I suspect that white voters in Florida (and in Texas and in many other “red” states) tend to view compassion as weakness and cruelty as strength.  So, at least among the majority of white voters in these states, this kind of cruelty  will be rewarded.  I’d be happy to be proven wrong about this

  93. 93.

    Betty Cracker

    @Zzyzx: I hear you, and it just gets worse and worse. I remember when Rick Scott was governor, and I was thinking, “JFC, even if we get another Republican governor, he can’t be as bad as this smug, flaccid-limbed invasive Everglades python!” And I was SO wrong. Then I remember thinking when GWB was president, “Sweet Jeebus, whatever vile and slimy hairball the GOP horks up next, he can’t be any more incompetent and embarrassing than this incoherent trust-fund cosplay cowboy?” Skunked again!

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Zzyzx: Who do you want to focus on?  The people who put them on a plane or the people of MV who are helping.  I would say that your mental health will be better if you focus on the people of MV.

  96. 96.

    PaulWartenberg

    @TaMara:

    I’ve met a few Cubans while living in the South Florida area, and granted the ones I met were very politically active, and oy vey they were so anti-Castro it got scary sometimes. Whenever I notice how Florida Cubans don’t behave like other Latino/Caribbean folk, that experience is what I defer to.

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    IANAL, but if we had a sensible SCOTUS then the DoJ could invoke something like the Supremacy Clause to get these RWNJ governors to keep their hands out of border issues, immigration, and all the rest. It’s not their job.

    I hope ProPublica and similar reporting organizations are asking pointed questions about where in the Florida (and Texas) budget there’s a line item for moving people out of state. (Similarly for places that move the homeless to other cities.)

    State governments are not playthings for RWNJs to use for their own aggrandizement among their most fanatical supporters. This crap needs to be ended.

    But we don’t have such a SCOTUS now.

    Fight for 15!! And vote for Team D for every position every time at least until we push these monsters back under their rocks.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    dr. bloor

    Has Charlie Baker said anything about this, or is he in his hidey-hole, which is typically the case when the Republican shit hits the fan?

  99. 99.

    Andrew Abshier

    I watched the Fox News clip and I identified the type of airplanes used immediately: Dornier 328Jets, which are very uncommon in U.S. registry.   While Fox pointedly edited the clip so that the aircraft registrations were either blocked or blurred, I was able to track down the company that chartered the jets for this farce: Ultimate Jet Charters, out of Cincinnati.   What I want to know is if they knew what they were getting into, and, if so, were they enthusiastic participants.    https://flyuj.com/

  100. 100.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay:

    to quote from Kent in the previous thread,

    “None of them are undocumented or “illegal aliens”  They all have documents of some sort, mostly pending asylum claims that give them temporary residence status.”

    Nobody is “illegal”.

    OK, so we shouldn’t charge DeSantis for conspiring to break the Federal law that uses that language, because you don’t like its wording?

    That seems to be what you’re saying, so please clarify.  Because I’m talking about the law and its applicability here, and the applicable section uses that word.

  101. 101.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Quiltingfool:

    Oh, that makes me happy! Please, if you haven’t already, ask if they can share photos with you that you could then share with us. I, for one, would love to see their creations.

  102. 102.

    trollhattan

    @Betty Cracker: Pretty strong parallel between Florida govs and going from Bush Jr. to Trump. “How can a president possibly be worse than George W. Bush?” is a question I’d like to formally retract.

  103. 103.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    I remember when Rick Scott was governor, and I was thinking, “JFC, even if we get another Republican governor, he can’t be as bad as this smug, flaccid-limbed invasive Everglades python!”

    One could make the same argument regarding the office of governor in Texas. From George Bush to Rick Perry to Greg Abbott, they just keep getting worse.

  105. 105.

    Spanky

    @Tony G:

    There is no bottom with these people.

    That’s not true! Just ask Lindsey Graham.

     

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  106. 106.

    Elizabelle

    Are we starting to see peak wingnut?  Might really be.

    IF we can trounce these terrible people in the midterms, could accelerate their end.  We seem to be at the beginning of an end.  Hopefully, it is an end to the resurgence of rightwing extremism.

    Either that, or our system of democracy.  Of the common good.

  109. 109.

    topclimber

    @FelonyGovt: Without reading further, I will hazard a guess that it is only forms of birth control that destroys a zygote/blastula rather than say, preventing the union of sperm and egg.

    Because we all agree, don’t we, that human life starts at conception and immediately supersedes the rights of the woman to control her body.

  110. 110.

    Spanky

    @Elizabelle:

    Are we starting to see peak wingnut?  Might really be

    No, Peak Wingnut is an asymptote. The problem though, is that asymptotes end in discontinuities. I don’t know what that portends for us.

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mallard Filmore:

    Send them a bus load of felons freshly discharged from prison.

    No, let’s not, as tempting as the thought might be.  This would be committing the same wrong as DeSantis and Abbott have been doing, just against a different group of people.

    Now I’d be totally cool with sending a convoy of garbage trucks to Tallahassee, and having them unload on the lawn of the governor’s mansion.

  112. 112.

    Roger Moore

    @TriassicSands:

    Obviously, contraception is one great way to avoid the issue of abortion (almost completely), but who knows if most Republicans can figure that out.

    This assumes their problem with abortion is with abortion itself.  It seems far more likely they’re unhappy with women having control over their bodies, and abortion is just the one that polled the best.

  113. 113.

    Martin

    Charge DeSantis for violation the Mann Act. Lying to the migrants regarding the nature of the flight and the benefits they would receive at the other end should qualify as an immoral act.

  114. 114.

    Geminid

    @Ruckus: I don’t know about the criminal side of the matter, but someone may have a viable civil action. I hope none of those folks caught Covid on those flights, but if someone did they might be able to sue the coyote who lied them into taking that flight, and her co-conspirators. That could make for some interesting discovery!

    And it’s possible just being fraudulently transported could be a cause of action. That might be a stretch. Those people were certainly wronged, but maybe not in a way that would support a lawsuit.

    I wonder if the Justice Department can sue to stop this practice.

  115. 115.

    Martin

    @Jager: You’re doing this wrong. Texas and Florida are states that are going hard right because they’re too close to purple. Driving dems out of the state is their best ploy.

    If you want to lure Rs somewhere, pick a small, very red state that Dems have no real chance of winning. Wyoming, for example. Maybe North Dakota so they can still have a border to build a wall along. We’re already saddled with these states that would barely qualify as a city carrying two senators, so there’s no downside to loading them up with more republicans.

  116. 116.

    Roger Moore

    @topclimber:

    Without reading further, I will hazard a guess that it is only forms of birth control that destroys a zygote/blastula rather than say, preventing the union of sperm and egg.

    That would be the logically consistent position. In practice, they’ll try to ban any form of contraception they can.  We know they’ve lied about how various forms of contraception work, claiming they block implantation when they actually prevent ovulation or fertilization.

  118. 118.

    hilts

    @Spanky:

    That’s not true! Just ask Lindsey Graham.

     

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) called his friend Donald Trump “a lying motherf—er” but “a lot of fun to hang out with,” according to The Divider, by Peter Baker and Susan Glasser, , out next Tuesday.

    Why it matters: Graham said it with “a what-can-you-do shrug,” the authors report — the mindset of so many Trump allies and enablers

     

    h/t https://www.mediaite.com/trump/lindsey-graham-on-trump-per-new-book-a-lying-motherfcker-but-a-lot-of-fun-to-hang-out-with/

  119. 119.

    Betty Cracker

    The JFK Library in MA posted this without directly commenting on DeSantis’s cruel stunt, but the comparison is obvious:

    The thing that struck me when I embiggened and read the clip was that in a sense, DeSantis is worse than the White Citizens Council shitbags who sent that family to Boston. The KKK assholes privately funded the family’s bus tickets instead of raiding taxpayer funds to charter private jets, and they gave the government officials they were trying to embarrass a heads-up on when the family would arrive instead of dumping them in a town with no warning and running off to chuckle about it in a Fox News exclusive.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    As was pointed out in the earlier thread, moving even documented* aliens outside of their district, with out permission, is illegal.

    (*pending claims).

    “Illegal” is eliminationist retoric.

    Fahad (when I was working), a recent immigrant from Pakistan, and a devout Muslim asked me one day how to deal with the “new” Corporate policy on pronouns, as he found it very “weird”.

    I pointed out to him that you don’t need to worry about it, if you just use peoples names.

  124. 124.

    Jager

    @Martin:

    I don’t want them to move, I just want them to be embarrassed and treated like shit when they show up with an invitation in their hand at the gates of Mar a Lago.

  125. 125.

    Jager

    @Martin:

    I don’t want them to move, I just want them to be embarrassed and treated like shit when they show up with an invitation in their hand at the gates of Mar a Lago.

  126. 126.

    Emma from Florida

    @PaulWartenberg: the majority would. But a sizable minority of Latin Americans from other countries plus the small numbers of Cuban democrats (we do exist) we could get some movement.

  128. 128.

    Almost Retired

    This is utterly deplorable.  Not to mention that DeSantis is doing it to the “wrong” Hispanics (Venezuelans fleeing policies EXACTLY like Biden’s, according to wingnuts).

    I can’t help but think that the good Governor has shot himself in the dick (as if he had good enough aim to hit a target that small and shriveled).

    And the optics of the MV community coming together to support these people should resonate with all but the most evil-hearted.  It’s been a week of own-goals by the Republican party.  I wish they’d just bury the fucking Queen already so that this stuff would get more coverage.

  130. 130.

    StringOnAStick

    If this indeed is the very near peak wing nut moment, we must assure that they lose at the polls and then we make an unbreakable oath to heckle and ridicule them forever more.  They think they are tough but they wilt when laughed at, so that suddenly all their silly cosplay warriorwear and cultural signifiers become universal objects of derision.  That’s how we get them to go back and stay under their rocks.

  133. 133.

    Kropacetic

    @lowtechcyclist:

    “Illegal” is eliminationist retoric.

    It’s in the freakin’ U.S. Code.  Deal with it.

    The law isn’t the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong. Also, people don’t go around using legal speak.

  136. 136.

    Eduardo

    @TaMara:  I was writing a long post trying to answer your question but it was too long, too emotional and likely to get me in a fruitless back and forth with some other commenters so I deleted it and will try to be as brief as a *real* Cuban ever was.

    We are the same people here or in Cuba.  The same assholes if you will.

    Most Cubans in Cuba, Cubans in Florida, and me personally have done more horrible things in Cuba that we will ever do in Florida — unless we get to full blown fascism here (not Orban fascism, more like Mussolini fascism).  In which case, yes, most Cuban MAGAs will be doing what the white MAGAs will be also doing.  (I would prefer to be dead to see that again.)

    What changes is how the Cuban in Cuba sees you, what is their position related to you, what you represent to them and the same from the Cuban in FL and you.  And vice versa.

    I am trying to make a point about the human condition that transcends groups.  And also a point on how precious a liberal democracy is.

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    @lowtechcyclist: As far as I can tell, the relevant section was copied into this comment on the previous thread.

    It does use the word “alien” which is offensive.  It does not use the word “illegal”.

    So I there is fighting on two fronts here.  “Alien” is offensive, so people are offended.  I’m sure they are offended that that word is in the official document, too.  And they are offended by the use of “illegal” in this case because it appears that these folks are here legally, having applied for asylum.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @Zzyzx: I think DeSantis has one eye on his Florida base. He thinks that if he can bring them out in November he’ll beat Crist. That may not be a safe assumption.

    DeSantis has his other eye on the 2024 Republican nomination. He hopes this stunt will solidify his hold on the hard-right Republicans who dominate the party now. It will help, but the preparation for 2024 isn’t going to help the guy if Crist beats him.

  140. 140.

    Another Scott

    One for WaterGirl…

    After Russia’s intentional targeting of critical infrastructure — water, power, dams, etc. — in response to getting their ass kicked in NE Ukraine, it’s hard to argue with this logic.

    I know Biden was holding off for negotiation purposes (Griner/Whelan), but I think it’s time. https://t.co/IANSuOSbCp

    — Angry Staffer 🌻 (@Angry_Staffer) September 14, 2022

    (emphasis added.)

    Hmmm…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    Rather than expelling them:  I wonder if a blue state governor, like Gretchen Whitmer, could attract migrants with valid asylum claims to Michigan.  A lot of depopulated areas.  Detroit offers services and a lot of inexpensive housing.

    Maine could also use a few planeloads of immigrants.  They have an aging population that needs care, without enough people to provide it.  Perhaps Governor Janet Mills, Democrat elected in 2019, could make a case for inviting these migrants in, for a win-win situation.

  142. 142.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    §1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
    (a) Criminal penalties
    (1)(A) Any person who-
    (i) knowing that a person is an alien, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States and regardless of any future official action which may be taken with respect to such alien;
    (ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;
    (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;
    (iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or
    (v)(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
    (II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,

    shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
    (B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs-
    (i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
    (ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
    (iii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv), or (v) during and in relation to which the person causes serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of title 18) to, or places in jeopardy the life of, any person, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
    (iv) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv), or (v) resulting in the death of any person, be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined under title 18, or both.

  143. 143.

    JMG

    The Venezuelans sent to the Vineyard are in no way illegally in the US according to law if they are asylum claimants awaiting a hearing. That’s a legal reason for being in the country.

  146. 146.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay:

    “Florida can confirm that two planes with illegal immigrants that arrived in Martha’s Vineyard today were part of the state’s relocation program to transport illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities,” Taryn Fenske, the governor’s communication director, said in a statement.

    That’s their claim. I cited it.

    Also:

    has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law

  147. 147.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Zzyzx: I understand that.  But focusing on the negative only is harmful.  LOTR nerd warning:  That is how Sauron broke Denethor.  He only let him see the bad when he looked into his Palantir until Denethor gave in to despair.  Just saying.

  151. 151.

    Dan B

    @zhena gogolia: My in-laws who are related to the Kochs seem to feel that empathy is a sign of weakness.  They also seem to find humor in sadistic insults, believe that the powerful subjugating the weak is the natural way, and believe that the privileged be protected and isolated from the poor and minorities.  Empathy short circuits their beliefs.  I hope Death Santa, bringer of the gifts of misery and despair, ships immigrants to their liberal little city.

  153. 153.

    lowtechcyclist

    @JMG:

    The Venezuelans sent to the Vineyard are in no way illegally in the US according to law if they are asylum claimants awaiting a hearing. That’s a legal reason for being in the country.

    Just in case this is addressed to me, I’m not saying they are illegally in the U.S.

    I’m saying that DeSantis’ rep has said that on his behalf.  And I’m saying that’s admitting to the crime of conspiracy to violate 8 USC 1324.

  156. 156.

    Kevin

    This story made me sick, until I read the comments on a Martha’s Vineyard news outlet story. Very disheartening to read so many people agreeing this is ok and what “liberal cities” are asking for. The right wing has lost their humanity.

  160. 160.

    JPL

    So, twitter is letting me know that a tractor trailer crashed on a highway and now dildos are covering the highway.

    no comment

  163. 163.

    rikyrah

    Phuck Floridians being ok with that…how is it even phucking LEGAL?

    James Surowiecki (@JamesSurowiecki) tweeted at 11:11 AM on Thu, Sep 15, 2022:
    Ron DeSantis literally used Florida taxpayer money to pay for a scheme to pick up migrants who were in Texas – that is, not even in Florida – and fly them to Massachusetts. How are Floridians possibly okay with that?
    (https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1570445286258143232?t=vUO6ACjw4OnfVl36-o08Wg&s=03)

  164. 164.

    Kropacetic

    @lowtechcyclist: Sorry, is this a court room? Explicit legal language is not required to accurately describe a law.

    The law doesn’t allow me to kill anyone.  True statement, right? You won’t find that text in the code.

  167. 167.

    topclimber

    @Geminid: Yes it is a base move, pun intended. But given the shortage of workers now, perhaps many of the marginal white guys (mostly) who could amplify that base are not as motivated as when the perception was a lot of immigrants were taking their jobs. That was arguably the case 10 years ago, and the backlash brought out typically apathetic voters who gave TFG his margin in some swing states. They came out for him. For DeSantis, I think not so much.

    Not that said white guys wanted to do the shit work left for migrants, but I know in the Long Island of a prior life there were a ton of El Salvadorans doing construction work for way less than the usual cost to contractors.  I think that is less true today. In any event, any (white) guy who can’t find a construction job today probably has about my level of trade skills, i.e. rock bottom.

  170. 170.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropacetic: I’ll also just politely point out that none of the people fighting over the legal language and what crime was committed are, to my knowledge, lawyers.

    On that subject, I am sure the DOJ is keeping a close eye on what is happening.

  172. 172.

    Tony G

    @rikyrah: Local officials (and residents) in “blue states” are the enemy, so they deserve to be punished, according to DeSantis/Abbot logic.  The thing about Florida, though, is that a big portion of Florida’s population consists of retired parents/grandparents of people in northeastern “blue states”.  Maybe DeSantis just assumes that these family members of dysfunctional psychopaths like him, who don’t care about each other?

  176. 176.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Almost Retired:

    This is utterly deplorable.  Not to mention that DeSantis is doing it to the “wrong” Hispanics (Venezuelans fleeing policies EXACTLY like Biden’s, according to wingnuts).

    This is one way in which modern conservatism is different from Reagan’s: Reagan, as bigoted as he was, knew it was good optics to welcome people who were immigrating from countries with governments we didn’t like. They were coming here because they didn’t like it there!

    The modern attitude is to think of these people as carriers of contagion. You might catch Islamism or Communism from them.

  178. 178.

    Tony G

    @Baud: “Special Master”.  If I recall correctly, that term originated in BDSM competitions in which every “Master” gets a participation trophy.  I might be wrong about that.

  180. 180.

    The Moar You Know

    And they are offended by the use of “illegal” in this case because it appears that these folks are here legally, having applied for asylum.

    @WaterGirl: If that is indeed the case then DeSantis has done nothing wrong.  At least to these folks.  He’s been an asshole, which is his default mode, but nothing more.

    I bet some voters would sure like to know where the money came from to charter the planes, but that’s state-level, not federal crime.

  187. 187.

    piratedan

    what is truly sad, is that the states of Texas and Florida spent more time and money on this stunt than it likely would have cost to actually help these people and process them and pass them on to the Feds if they were asylum seekers.

  189. 189.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: Immigrants do a lot of the work in the trades and services in Virginia too. Not all of them have legal status, and we need some comprehensive reform to get them legal and into the system. Maybe the next Congress can get this done.

    Massachusetts employers can certainly use the adult’s help if they can achieve refugee status and are permitted to work. And just speaking from self interest, I can’t wait for those kids to grow up and enter the workforce. They might help pay for my Social Security!

  190. 190.

    Tony G

    @rikyrah: This fact will not be reported by Fox News or OAN, so for right-wing white Floridians it will not be a fact.  Tens of millions of white men get their “information” from these right-wing propaganda sources and, as a result, they live in a completely different reality from the rest of us.  People like Trump and DeSantis are the result of, not the cause of, this mass willful ignorance.

  191. 191.

    HumboldtBlue

    Biden is killing it! Calling out the racists, the bigots, the people who want only power and profit, white supremacism is the greatest threat to our country today. “I never thought I’d say that.”

  192. 192.

    Martin

    @The Moar You Know: California just sent a letter to the DOJ to investigate believing this is illegal. I think transporting people across state lines under false pretenses is very certainly illegal. I don’t think you need to dip into the immigration laws – I think the regular human trafficking laws cover that, so the citizen status of the person doesn’t matter.

    In the case of immigration laws, it’s not under false pretenses – the person being transported is on board, which is the need for the special laws.

  193. 193.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    OT, but this is the greatest thing ever.  THE QUEUE!  As many people who live in Britain or who have visited Britain will know that The Queue is a THING.  We live to queue, there are rules, there is a very strong set of protocols, there are things you do and do not do.  And this QUEUE for the viewing of the Queen is the greatest queueing achievement ever in the history of queueing in the UK.  As we speak the queue is 4.5 miles long.  It is taking people upwards of 8 hours to get to the front and yet it is the epitome of queueing.  People are polite, there are porta potties along the length of the queue, there are food and drink vendors, people are sharing food and drinks.  People are holding peoples places while they go to the loo or to grab a cup of tea.  Queue jumpers are met with such a carcophone of “tutting” that they quickly sneak away in shame.  People have become life long friends while in the queue.  There was a story of two girls who went to the bag drop and then returned to the queue to find their friends, they were searching everywhere, someone said “why don’t you phone them” and they said “we don’t have their number we only just met them in the queue”.   This is the most British thing in the Britishness of things that has ever happened.  The queue is probably viewable from space, it is that epic.   There are numerous television reporters talking to people in the queue, and the people behind them in the queue wait patiently while the idiot reporters ask such stupid questions as “why are you queueing?” “how do you feel?” etc. etc., ad nauseum.  The people waiting allow the interviewees to rejoin the queue in their exact place before they were dragged away by the reporter.  These are the rules of the QUEUE!  It is fitting that the death of our dear beloved Queen has resulted in the most British thing ever in the history of Britain, the glory that is THE QUEUE! (American husband’s comment “huh, it’s a line”, no it isn’t it is a QUEUE!).

  195. 195.

    Roger Moore

    @Dan B:

    Seconded on cruelty is strength.

    Cruelty to those below you. You have to suck up to those above you.  I would even say this is the rule: forcing someone to suck up to you in response to your cruelty is how you prove you’re above them.

  196. 196.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Do you suppose the DOJ chose today because:

    A.) it was one week from the filing where they set the dealine

    B.) it was a Thursday so the 11th circuit would be able to take it up on Friday 9/16, if needed?

    C.) none of the above?

  197. 197.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: I was kind of hoping that she hadn’t said which one, so the offspring could fall all over themselves trying to rat on everyone else so they stay out of prison.

  198. 198.

    Tony G

    @Tony G: For an old geezer like me, who was almost forty years old when access to the Internet began to be widespread, this phenomenon illustrates a dismaying truth about human nature.  With a computer, an internet connection and a search engine, anyone can, in a matter of seconds, find any information that he/she wants, and can check the validity of any information that seems dubious.  Before the mid-nineties that would have been impossible without (at best) an afternoon in a library.  Yet, despite this technology, tens of millions of people make a conscious choice to get all of their “information” from a handful of propaganda outlets.  With some exceptions, we are not an intelligent species.

  201. 201.

    Jeffro

    These Abbott/DeSantis stunts are proxies for open rebellion by the Republicans.  They are defying our country’s laws and policies, as the heads of states (and large ones at that) in order to rile up their base.

    Between this shit and the way the red states are going nuts with abortion restrictions, plus their deepening war on education and educators, plus all the election deniers running for office in those same states, it’s not impossible to see a time in the near future where the red state governors simply refuse to do anything that a Democratic president orders or a Democratic Congress enacts.

  205. 205.

    cain

    @Elizabelle: Get those red states to spend their tax money to send them to the blue states while they say thanks!

    Then the Dems in the Red states can talk about how much tax dollars were used. Next time the power grid goes down or some other shit – they can talk about the 12 million dollars that was spent on penniless legal immigrants. Hell, if you can show those immigrants are thriving thanks to Florida tax dollars – you got a good story right there for MAGA people to look at DeSantis as an idiot. Weaponize that racism against em.

  208. 208.

    rikyrah

    @Jeffro:

     

    These Abbott/DeSantis stunts are proxies for open rebellion by the Republicans.  They are defying our country’s laws and policies, as the heads of states (and large ones at that) in order to rile up their base.

     

    which is why they need to be brought up on charges for this. And, I don’t mean the big wigs alone. I mean the government grunts who put their names on the paperwork to process this evil. They need to be arrested too.

  216. 216.

    Elizabelle

    @Litlebritdifrnt:   Keep calm and queue on.**

    Good to hear from you.  Historic moment.

    ** Naturally, this is better advice for Brits than for Americans (alas, Q has a different meaning here, and it is neither orderly nor polite; nor sane, but that’s another topic).

  217. 217.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Litlebritdifrnt: we had a similar experience in Rome when JP II died (they go NUTS over there when a pope dies!).  Tens of thousands of people in line, all incredibly polite.

  218. 218.

    The Moar You Know

    Queue jumpers are met with such a carcophone of “tutting” that they quickly sneak away in shame.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: you guys don’t fuck around with those people.  I was in a Sainsbury’s in London a couple of days before Christmas and some asswipe jumped the line and I seriously thought he was going to get murdered.  All these supremely nice people, of all creeds and colors, united as one mob.  Brought a tear to my eye.

    That alone is enough reason to love Britain.

  219. 219.

    cain

    @Tony G: My theory is that they are all traumatized in some fashion. Some small faction are just born being evil fuckers because of some neural-divergent issues.

  220. 220.

    zhena gogolia

    Matthew 25:35-40
    New International Version
    35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

  222. 222.

    Ksmiami

    @Martin:  No. my plan is to buy up tracts in WY and develop democratic cool enclaves and flip small western states Blue

     

    @Jager:  I want them strung up, in the stocks and pelted w rotten fruit

  224. 224.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    “Judge” Cannon (T-FL) is running out the clock.
    I predict she lets the clock lapse without issuing a ruling.​
    eta: the coveted, rare 222 slot – triple deuce​ jackpot

  229. 229.

    Jeffro

    @zhena gogolia: I used that in a tweet about DeSantis earlier today:

    “For I was hungry and you…ignored my basic humanity, I was thirsty and you…threw me onto an airplane like cargo, I was a stranger and you…treated me like a political prop, I was sick and you…rushed to Fox News to crow about it all.”

  230. 230.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t see the word alien in there.

    Well, I thought I’d just copy the part that equated to ‘illegal.’

    But here you go:

    alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law

    sigh.

  235. 235.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kropacetic: ​

    @lowtechcyclist: Sorry, is this a court room? Explicit legal language is not required to accurately describe a law.

    The law doesn’t allow me to kill anyone. True statement, right? You won’t find that text in the code.

    No, not a true statement. Hell, they recently made it legal in a few states to use your car to plow into a crowd of protesters.

    And police can kill almost at will, as long as they can come up with some “I thought he was reaching for a weapon” or “I thought his cell phone was a gun” bullshit.

  237. 237.

    geg6

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Hmmmm…I don’t agree.  I’d much rather Zillow.

    As an aside, I saw Mark Knopfler when he was touring as the guitarist for Bob Dylan.  Worst concert I ever saw.  Knopfler was the only saving grace.  Dylan was awful and rude.  He never once faced the audience.  What an asshole.

  242. 242.

    geg6

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
     
    I cannot figure out what Dylan was doing at that concert. It was huge, enthusiastic crowd at the old Civic Arena here. Knopfler seemed to be having a great time and played some kick ass licks. Dylan kept his back turned and mumbled into the mic. I haven’t gained my respect for him back all these years later. He should have just flipped us off and left the stage to Mark Knopfler.

  244. 244.

    cain

    @zhena gogolia:

    That’s the regular version – what is the MAGA version??? :-) We should just start peppering social media the christian version and the MAGA version.

    “I was poor, so you sent me to Massachusetts”

    ETA

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    Looks like the King is in Martha’s Vinyard! Hallelujah!

  245. 245.

    ColoradoGuy

    The two governors are using the timeline of the Third Reich as a guide. They are three to five years away from Kristallnacht at this point. They know very well what they are doing.

  246. 246.

    Anomalous Cowherd

    @ian:

    Any truth to the rumor that Dershowitz has been spotted in Mexico skulking around the US border in hope of becoming an “illegal alien” and thus being airlifted directly to Marthas Vineyard?

  247. 247.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: ​
     

    @Kropacetic: True. As a Jew, whenever one of them tries to cite Leviticus (from MY people’s book) to justify homophobia, I’m just like “Okay bitch, when do you start keeping kosher?”

    Oh, they’ve got an answer to that, and it even makes a kind of sense. There’s a passage in Acts where Peter has a vision of all sorts of unclean foods spread out before him, and the Lord tells him to arise and eat. “But Lord, I’ve never eaten anything unclean.” And the Lord tells him it’s all clean now.

    (Even Peter later says that this dream was really about Gentiles and Jews, rather than unclean and clean foods. But the fundies ignore that, and will quote that story if you get on them about not keeping kosher. Instead, you can always ask them if their roof has a rail around it – that’s a commandment somewhere in Deuteronomy.)

  250. 250.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kropacetic: ​
     

    I could say the same right back atcha, but what’s the point? I quoted the law, and I quoted the words that certainly appear to violate it, both of which appear other places in this thread. I’ve totally lost the plot about what you and a couple others are upset about, and why. I’m gonna respond to another person or two about unrelated points, then have a drink.

  251. 251.

    FridayNext

    @ColoradoGuy:

    maybe, but the more direct influence are what White Citizen Councils used to call “Reverse Freedom Rides” Back then they lied to African Americans  and told them they’d have jobs  and a good house and then transported them to Hyannis. Now they do it to immigrants and moved them to Martha’s  Vineyard.

    Same racist playbook.

  253. 253.

    Ruckus

    @TriassicSands:

    If abortion and contraception are in the bible then there is likely, possibly a 2% chance any of them have read that section. And I don’t remember that there is any mention, but I haven’t read the book in a few decades.

  255. 255.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Peter has a vision of all sorts of unclean foods spread out before him, and the Lord tells him to arise and eat. “But Lord, I’ve never eaten anything unclean.” And the Lord tells him it’s all clean now.

    This is where TFG got the idea of declassifying documents just by thinking the thought.

  256. 256.

    Ruckus

    @Tony G:

    Yep. They are bottom feeders and they live on the bottom. They seem to think the bottom is the greatest place on earth. It’s as if every single pore is trying to get as low as possible, to bottom out, to find what is the worst thing they can do, without getting executed. Or hung from the corner lamp post, like that WWII Italian guy…..what’s his name….

  257. 257.

    patrick II

    @Betsy: ​
     
    You have two great comments here. I have copied 17 and 31 so I can steal from them in the future. Thx in advance.

  258. 258.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Litlebritdifrnt: ​there are porta potties along the length of the queue, there are food and drink vendors, people are sharing food and drinks.

    Compare and contrast: US red states where government officials have closed polling locations to force long lines for voting, and then passed laws making it illegal to provide food or drink to people in line.

  262. 262.

    different-church-lady

    Just amazing: these folks are so locked in to their Fox News Hatred bubble that they actually think DeSantis looks good from this.

  263. 263.

    Central Planning

    @Roger Moore: “preventing ovulation prevents implantation because the egg can’t be fertilized to be implanted. Checkmate, libtard” – Republicans, probably

  264. 264.

    Bill Arnold

    @different-church-lady:

    Just amazing: these folks are so locked in to their Fox News Hatred bubble that they actually think DeSantis looks good from this.

    This is a common root cause of damaging self-owns, and can be encouraged. (Russia has this failure mode, too.)

  265. 265.

    Elizabelle

    @sab:   Oh.  Same Betsy about the bike paths in the Netherlands?

    Anyway, I find the comment about the slave narratives, and the difference between New England and the American South very interesting.

    Also:  great to hear Mr. Sab is on the mend.  Progress!  You and the pit bull can take a breather.

  268. 268.

    different-church-lady

    Here it is explained perfectly (courtesy of a commenter on LGM, apologies if someone else has already posted it:

    the Martha’s Vineyard incident is a poignant reminder that one central conceit of Republican politics is that everyone is secretly as cruel as they are, and surely nobody would genuinely want to help the people Republicans pack into planes and ship off to faraway liberal locales

    DeSantis and Abbott think it’s a good bit of theater because the idea of a community rallying to help foreign strangers doesn’t compute in their warped brains

  270. 270.

    Roger Moore

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: ​
     

    As a Jew, whenever one of them tries to cite Leviticus (from MY people’s book) to justify homophobia, I’m just like “Okay bitch, when do you start keeping kosher?”

    But Jesus said, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.” (Matthew 15:11) This, with context, is generally taken by Christians to mean they don’t have to obey kashrut. I’m not sure that’s 100% correct- Jesus was talking specifically about his followers having failed to wash their hands before eating, not other categories of failing to keep kosher- but it’s not a completely unreasonable reading of the scripture.

  271. 271.

    Betsy

    @sab: You were going to pie me for not saying anything?  That seems like a pretty harsh standard!  (Also difficult!)

    Actually I don’t remember commenting yesterday at all; was working all day & then had unsettling family news to attend to later.

  272. 272.

    sab

    @Elizabelle: I tried to tone down my comment  but edit timed out.  Yesterday I was miffed. Today she is interesting.  Life moves on and most our jackals are thoughtful and intelligent. As is she.

  274. 274.

    Roger Moore

    @cain:

    That’s the regular version – what is the MAGA version???

    As I understand it, the MAGA version places much more emphasis on the “brothers and sisters of mine” part.  See, you’re only required to help out your fellow Christians, and “fellow Christians” can be interpreted as narrowly as you wish.  It’s OK to do whatever you feel like to those fake Christians who don’t understand Jesus the way you do.

  276. 276.

    GibberJack

    At first this reminded me of Castro emptying out his prisons and sending them on boats to the US to create a political grandstanding gotcha moment, something he could denounce as hypocrisy. “Open arms, huh? Let’s see you welcome these people.”

    But now I think it’s worse. It’s far more sinister.

    I’m seeing some parallels with the Nazis lying to and coercing groups of “undesireables” to deport them and lying about what they get at their destination. It’s a difference in degree not in kind.

    We have all heard the MAGAs and their eliminationist talk. They have been telling us who they are for a long time. Desantis is telling us there will be nothing semi about his semi-fascism.

  278. 278.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Andrew Abshier: Good catch. I wonder what would happen if the MA State Police were to arrest the pilots and impound that planes if they pull this stunt again. Maybe MA could simple confiscate the planes and use them while the courts figure it all out.

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