It looks like most US news sites are leading with the Queen’s funeral, while a storm that’s completely knocked out the entire Puerto Rican power grid at second or third on the list. This isn’t really about the Queen, of course — any other moderate-size story would do the same.
Whether or not it gets covered in the press, at least this time around Puerto Rico should get some real help from the Biden Administration, and also from New York State, which has the largest Puerto Rican community outside of Puerto Rico.
Because most of his other heinous acts dwarf the way he treated Puerto Rico, let’s not forget that Trump’s administration not only blocked aid to Puerto Rico, but also tried to obstruct an investigation into the way they blocked funds. I’m guessing that some of those funds were targeted at hardening the power grid.
Of course, as I was writing this, the Post moved Puerto Rico from the middle to the top of their page. Still, it’s amazing how much Trump gets away with:
Fiona struck two days before the five-year anniversary of Maria, the Category 4-storm which left Puerto Rico in the dark for months, killing more than 3,000 people. The federal government set aside billions for reconstruction, but the sluggish recovery has left its communities vulnerable. [emphasis mine]
Today I learned that you must always be on guard against sluggish recoveries as they inexplicably fall from the skies. They’ll turn around and bite you in the end.
Balconesfault
Will Biden fly directly to Puerto Rico on his way back from England?
Will he bring paper towels?
Cameron
Major storm in Alaska, too. Wonder how much of the aid designated for Puerto Rico wound up in Trump’s pocket?
brendancalling
I’ve been APPALLED by the attention paid to the dead figurehead from the country we fought off so we wouldn’t have to care about their dead figureheads. NPR was simply disgusting this morning—no news, just a eulogy for a foreign “leader.”
Puerto Rico is drowning again and fucking Steve Inskeep is babbling about a week-old corpse. Call me when she jumps out of the coffin and dances the hustle. A dead queen isn’t worth more than a single article.
Brachiator
Just because a story does not get the top headlines does not mean that it does not get any press coverage.
But the main point, and this is the good thing, is that the Biden administration appears to be ready to help.
It is unfortunate that Puerto Rico is such a massive infrastructure project, in part because it seems to get continually battered by storms. But in the past, some disaster funds got diverted. Maybe there also needs to be better oversight.
trollhattan
@Balconesfault: The Strategic Brawny Reserve has been tapped, and is ready to go.
FelonyGovt
At least I’m fairly confident that Biden won’t be tossing paper towels to people.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Eliot Ness arrested Al Capone for
bootlegginggamblingracketeeringSt. Valentine’s Day Massacreunder reporting income.Dangerman
I know trenching power lines is fucking expensive but cleaning up these messes every 5 years has to be pretty damn expensive, too.
coin operated
@Balconesfault:
I hope Biden stays the hell out of the way and lets FEMA do it’s job. The current head of FEMA, Deanne Criswell, has an impressive resume and is more than up to the task.
My $.02
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Leader of the free world arriving (photo)
Ocotillo
Open thread and this is a bit off topic but shouldn’t blue state destinations of these right wing gov’s stunts of bussing or flying migrants be impounding the planes and busses being used as part of an investigation to a crime. Once the busses start being impounded Abbott may have a harder time finding bus companies willing to take part in his stunts.
Ken
I thought that had been emptied and sent off to farmers to compensate them for the China trade war that TFG lost.
lollipopguild
One of the recent books on trump told us that trump was serious about buying Greenland and wanted to “Get rid” of PR. Maybe he wanted to trade PR for a country to be named later. If trump had gotten a second term he might have given Alaska back to russia as a present for his BFF putin.
Freemark
@Dangerman: In the karst terrain that is a large part of PR trenching is probably not a viable option.
RaflW
I’ve been to P.R. four times, three of those between Feb 2019, Feb 2020 and Nov 2021. Each visit we’ve been so impressed with the friendliness and warmth of Puerto Ricans. It’s become our favorite warm-weather vacation spot. But seeing the difference between the first visit (c. 2015?) our 2019 visit as far as damage from Maria was sobering.
I hope this time the damage, loss and misery is much less. For sure having a non-punitive potus will help, too.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@brendancalling:
Life became better for me about a decade ago when I stopped listening to Totebagger Radio. Turns out, I had stopped listening to it for years prior to that, instead had been mostly screaming at the radio. The fact that Inskreep, et.al. are still around is Reason # 1,485.7 why one never gives money to them nor listens to them.
Litlebritdifrnt
While I understand the frustration for those outside the UK (or the Commonwealth) with the news coverage she was the longest reigning Monarch in our history (and to be fair in history period when you discount Louis XIV seeing as he was FOUR when he was crowned). It has been over the top certainly, but my Husband tells me that the coverage of JFKs funeral was similar. She is also the Head of State for 55 countries around the world (The Commonwealth). In any event I have, I think, held up quite well. I have resisted the urge to indulge in furious twitter rages against people who have been throwing the word “pedophile” about when it somes to Andrew (including, I am afraid to say, our own @Angryblacklady), and have tried to remain calm. That was until today when the coffin drove into Windsor and Penny The Queen’s Horse was there as were her two Corgies. I was done and sort of dissolved into snotty blubbering. I sort of got myself together until the coffin was lowered into the crypt and the camera moved to Charles crying and I again lost it. Again I understand other people not relating but she was not only my Queen, she was my Commander in Chief, her daughter (Anne) was my Chief Commandant, and I have been hurting watching her taking her beloved Mother from her deathbed to her funeral. We will get over it, we always do, but give us this, just for a while.
Secondly, for any of you who are remotely interested in where I live, there is a rather wonderful Detective series on TV (and streaming in all sorts of places ) called “The Bay” it is based in Morecambe (where I live) and I can attest to the most wonderful cinematography of the scenery around here. (In fact we were driving along the promenade the other day and we saw two separate filming locations, such fun!). Anyway check it out.
Thirdly, I am incredibly grateful that the people of Alaska and Puerto Rico have a POTUS who actually gives a fuck that they have been hit by storms and they will actually get the help they need and won’t have the debacle of a twat throwing paper towels at them in a press conference.
Peace.
Dadadadadadada
@brendancalling: I heartily agree. I literally listened to a morning-zoo show instead, and I HATE morning-zoo shows.
We fought a literally WAR to get away from this bullshit!
gene108
@Cameron:
Probably not much. Trump’s Presidential grift seems to be mostly charging government agencies for using his properties, like the Secret Service or an agency booking a retreat at one of them.
Withholding aid to Puerto Rico was done purely out of spite towards native Spanish speakers, who I presume Trump and most of his advisors and Cabinet members feel are all in the USA illegally.
WhatsMyNym
All the main channels were reporting on Puerto Rico and Alaska yesterday after the storms hit.
I don’t get my news from east coast papers, morning shows, or NPR; so have no idea what they are reporting.
Soprano2
@brendancalling: I was really pissed at how they kept talking over the music. If you’re going to broadcast it, then broadcast it and quit talking over large portions of it. All they were saying was babble that’s already been said. And I do understand why they covered it, because a lot of people here are interested in it. If my mother were still alive, she would have watched it wall-to-wall and would be distressed that Charles is now king.
RaflW
FWIW, WaPo now has P.R. disaster at the top, Pentagon psyops second, and Queenie is third. Seems about fair IMO.
Baud
@WhatsMyNym:
I checked a couple. PR seems to be the second story on the website.
Elizabelle
@Litlebritdifrnt: Thank you. I am with you on QE2. My condolences. The derision here has been over the top, and makes me not want to be here as much. People can have manners.
Agree re PR and Alaska and all the rest of our 50 states. We do have an excellent president who takes his responsibilities seriously. As do most Democrats. Again, for the haters, suck on it.
Soprano2
@Litlebritdifrnt: I haven’t watched that much of the coverage, but there seems to be very little mention of the fact that this family is mourning the loss of their mother and grandmother. I had a small taste of what it’s like to experience a loss like that in a public way, and I cannot imagine what they are going through under the spotlight that’s on them every minute of every day. Perhaps Charles’ impatience with a pen was a manifestation of his grief, but he doesn’t seem to get cut much slack. It’s as if the press thinks these people aren’t quite human.
trollhattan
@Ken: That was Brawndo, which plants crave.
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle: Yeah, there’s something really annoying about the need to dump on her. Just pass on by. I haven’t watched any of the coverage, but I don’t feel the need to shit on people who are interested. I’m not interested in most of what they cover on TV.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2: BBC covered it well, and C-Span used their feed. It’s on demand. The music was superb, all of it, and I wanted to hear more of the bells. It was wonderful to see the procession through London and Windsor.
Funeral is in at least two parts. https://www.c-span.org/video/?522859-1/funeral-service-queen-elizabeth-ii-part-1
Canadian Broadcasting gabbed over everything too. Turned them off. One nitwit correspondent actually told the camera she was having trouble collecting her thoughts to talk over the bells of Westminster. Would far have preferred to hear them. Fled CBC shortly after that.
WRT the funeral: a lot of our parents admired the Queen as a person. And they are gone too. That whole generation. This funeral was a chance to think of them, as well.
It wasn’t that we are all raving monarchists.
geg6
@brendancalling:
Thank you. Totally agree. I’ve been in WTF mode over the fuss in the US over this. Who the hell cares?
Cameron
Meanwhile, in Florida (natch), a true patriot confronts the Biden-CVS Deep State and takes action!
https://mycbs4.com/news/local/cvs-pharmacy-employee-attacked-suspect-cursed-president-joe-biden
Baud
@Cameron: I clicked to see what the connection was, but there wasn’t one.
Maybe the Florida GOP is field testing a new initiation requirement.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
No, but that is a good UK punk band name.
geg6
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I totally get why you would be interested in 24/7 coverage in the UK media. As I’m sure you would understand why the coverage of JFK’s funeral was 24/7 here (not to mention, he was assassinated at a pretty young age and the queen was ancient). But I do not understand why American media are covering this like she was OUR queen. No, she was the queen of a country we fought two wars to get away from. It should have been reported the day she died (and perhaps the day after) and maybe some clips from the funeral today. Nothing more. It’s ridiculous and infuriates me when there is actual important news in the country. This is not important. In any way. Not to Americans.
Ken
Charles Stross has a blog entry about the ceremonies which is rather horrifying, in both the figurative “mocking the rites” sense and the literal “Lovecraftian horror” sense. But at the end he explains it was triggered by Sir Lindsay Hoyle saying “we should not let anything overshadow the most important event the world will ever see and that is the funeral of her majesty.”
WhatsMyNym
@Elizabelle: My mother is older than the Queen was. Since it started so early, we’ll watch later.
Tony G
“Her Majesty’s a pretty nice girl”, as Sir Paul sang 53 years ago. But, come on. She was a 96 year old rich woman who died 11 days ago. Why wasn’t she in the ground a week ago? No wonder the British lost their empire. And why is the American “news media” all over this non-story? Jesus.
WereBear
I think TV has become “reality show” so indelibly in a lot of the Powers That Be that the whole industry has crossed wires.
My favorite memory of the Queen, not being a Royal watcher, is the expert way she shaded Trump with her fashion choices during his visit. There was a Twitter thread outlining this almost forgotten art.
Like she was playing a joke on him behind his back and the whole country knew it.
Eunicecycle
@Ocotillo: I was thinking the same thing.
prostratedragon
@Tony G: Welllll, a small piece of the answer is that her body lay in state for about 5 days in various places, and yet people still lined up hoping to get a glimpse, and I read that in the end the line had to be cut off so the funeral procession could form. So that’s one reason for the delay.
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
To the contrary, some of the best coverage has tactfully made note of this. And as the commenter above noted, Princess Anne stayed with her mother’s coffin as it traveled from Scotland to London. This was a purely personal expression of grief and affection, and was widely reported.
However, the mourning of the Royal Family is also embedded in their ceremonial responsibilities. There was the Vigil of the Princes, where the children of the Queen stood in silence around the coffin. A very moving sight, which was repeated with the grandchildren of the Queen.
And King Charles and William and Harry have all spoken about some of their personal feelings.
Another indication of the public and private nature of the official mourning is the report that the king has had a personal handwritten note placed on top of the casket containing the Queen’s body.
ETA. Princess Anne’s participation in the Vigil of the Princes was the first time in history that a female member of the Royal Family was included.
cain
@geg6: The people here in this country is still fascinated by British loyalty for some reason. Just someone to gossip about. It’s kind of ridiculous – but for them it’s entertainment.
Geminid
SUNY-New Paultz Anthropology Professor (and former Black Panther) Denise Oliver-Velez has tweeted frequently about the state of Puerto Rico’s electrical grid since Hurricane Maria. Right now Ms. Oliver-Velez (@Deoliver47) is tweeting links to the Daily Kos posts she is making about Hurricane Fiona’s impact on the island (Ms. Oliver-Velez is a contributing editor to Kos).
Amir Khalid
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I suppose Americans generally don’t grok the emotional relationship that citizens of a monarchy have with the monarch, which is a part of their sense of patriotism. (Most citizens of a monarchy, at any rate. Tony Jay seems to feel differently.) I myself can grok it, since Malaysia is a monarchy too. And, like you, I have been struck by the vitriol in some Jackals’ comments about Queen Elizabeth’s life and the role she played in Britain.
Elizabelle
@WereBear: It was heartening to see some dignity in the midst of the craven Theresa May and Boris Johnson eras. Remember them? David Cameron too. Ouch. Cowards, the whole lot of them.
WhatsMyNym
@Tony G:
Is it?? My local paper is barely covering it (Seattle Times) and I don’t have cable. Maybe be more selective on your news source.
Cameron
@geg6: True, but the problem is American media. It’s certainly not the late queen’s fault that the funeral is getting supersized here. I don’t really have an opinion about her one way or another, mostly because I’m a lazy lump who doesn’t pay much attention to the outside world.
geg6
@Amir Khalid:
Americans have every reason to have no respect for the British monarchy. And as for me, personally, my grandparents who immigrated from England said much worse things about the British monarchy than anything I’ve said here. I am an American. I don’t give a shit about some grotesquely rich old woman who’s biggest responsibilities were holding stolen jewels on her head and riding around in a gold carriage and waving. I understand why actual British citizens might (though very few of the ones I know do), but I don’t understand why any American cares or gets upset when those like me aren’t “respectful.” Jesus. It’s nuts.
ETA: I’m just glad it should be over today and we can all go back to calling Andrew the pedophile he is without upsetting someone.
p.a.
How are the EU & other Euro media covering the totally predictable demise of a nonagenarian? Personally I’m baffled by how many ‘Mercans care about those grafted-Briton Saxons going back to Princess Di. Of course, I’m baffled by philately as well. Totes willing to admit the issues are with me and not monarchists or philatelists.
Bex
@brendancalling: NPR never has any news. I thought by using British commentators who actually knew the value of silence when appropriate, rather than constant yakking, was admirable. Today was history. YMMV.
FelonyGovt
@Litlebritdifrnt: I saw that show, The Bay! It was a good one and yes, the scenery is incredibly beautiful
Litlebritdifrnt
@geg6: I get that you are not interested but obviously a large amount of American viewers are. There is a reason that US TV stations suspended advertising during their coverage of it because they knew they did not need to make money, they just needed eyeballs which they were obviously getting. I mean you have no idea the amount of Americans who had spent large amounts of money to fly to London to stand in The Queue to see the Queen lying in State. People do it. Personally I thought the whole Princess Diana thing was a complete and utter debacle but I didn’t particularly like her (for reasons I will not elaborate here) we can agree to disagree can we not?
oatler
Haven’t seen ABC today, but I just know Chris Christie is in London right now.
Amir Khalid
@Cameron:
I agree.
scav
@Amir Khalid: Even the vitriol is somehow proof of an emotional attachment to the person of the monarch. Certainly not one redolent of respect for her and her family’s basic humanity, but negative or positive connections are connections. Their sheer affront at the media doing what the media does (it’ll be world cup, stupidbowl & some award ceremony at some point) and indignation that others think differently than they is rather disheartening although not surprising. Complaints mop up what little time the coverage itself doesn’t use up.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@oatler:
closing the lanes on the Tower Bridge, I presume
geg6
@Litlebritdifrnt:
You are free to mourn your monarch without any comment from me about it. She’s your monarch and you are entitled to do that. I am only speaking about Americans. And any American who spent a penny to go stand in line to mourn a very old woman who has no real meaning to their lives is as stupid as the average MAGA. In fact, I’m pretty sure that most of the ones who are most loudly mourning her are MAGA. All my friends and family are in the same WTF mode I’ve been in since she died.
ETA: And just to be clear here, several of the family I mentioned above are actual British citizens living in the UK. They didn’t think much of her either.
Bex
@Litlebritdifrnt: Peace to you too. As I said in my other comment, this was history and I’m so glad I could see it.
Hoodie
@Litlebritdifrnt: I don’t get why Americans would be particularly annoyed by the coverage, seeing that, for us, the UK royal family is really just another group of Kardashians. However, I could understand how parts of the UK/Commonwealth might feel a bit conflicted. Did you see the anti-monarchy chant at the recent Celtic match in Glasgow?
brantl
@lollipopguild: if they promised Palin went too, not a bad deal.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@WereBear:
My favorite memory of the Queen was when she threw out the first pitch at the World Series – she was a good sport (video)
Tony G
@brendancalling: NPR is a disgrace, and has been for decades. I actually wonder whether there is really that much appetite among Americans for “news” about the British Royal Family (dead, alive or in-between). Americans can be pretty dumb, but I would think that people get enough celebrity news with snippets about J-Lo or Lady Gaga or whoever “the kids” are into these days. I suspect that the non-stop coverage of the Royal Family (dead or alive) has another purpose — showing the ignorant peasants (in the UK and in the US) who really matters.
zhena gogolia
@geg6:
If that were true, our corporate media would certainly not be covering it. They’re doing it because people are watching.
Brachiator
@geg6:
Americans fought for independence, but then maintained a close connection and affection for the UK. This is just a matter of historical fact.
And an ongoing relationship with British aristocrats has continued from the beginning, on down through the Gilded Age when rich American girls married dopey members of the nobility and into the modern era when, for example, Kathleen Kennedy married the heir to the Dukedom of Devonshire, still one of the wealthiest and most prestigious British dukedoms.
And then there is all that friendship and fighting together through two world wars and all that.
Ken
… now has a queue wristband which is going for £125 or thereabouts on eBay, according to the screenshots in that Charles Stross post I linked earlier.
geg6
@Brachiator:
If anyone understands the ties of the US and Britain, it would be me. My grandparents were immigrants from Britain and I still have quite a bit of family there. It came in handy when my dad was stationed there during WWII and he had a few days leave. FTR, he hated it there and totally understood why his parents left.
brantl
@Elizabelle: She forwarded imperialism, long past its sell-by date. The british brutalized colonials, and she didn’t say shit to oppose it. Not my favorite Brit. Period.
Citizen Alan
@Dadadadadadada: Well, TBF, we fought a literal war to get away from a Parliament that was (a) taxing us without representation and (b) making noises about banning the slave trade. By that point in history, was George III playing any real role in British foreign policy? Or had he reached the “thinks he’s a tree” phase of his mental decline (Blackadder reference)?
Ohio Mom
@Hoodie: “…for us, the UK royal family is really just another group of Kardashians.”
Yes, exactly. I will be stealing that.
geg6
@brantl:
Come sit by me on the “Never Mind the Bollocks” memorial sofa.
oatler
@Tony G:
Like PBS, where they’ve whored thenselves into the whoreish mire. Their programs are short at both ends to make room for promos and “underwriters” (now it’s straight-up pickup truck commercials). Let’s not get into Pledge Week(s).
WhatsMyNym
@brantl:
Look at what we’ve done during the same time period.
dm
Why is the funeral getting top billing on cable news? It’s cheap filler (sounds like it could be made even cheaper by silencing the talking heads and letting the spectacle speak for itself).
The cable channels have to fill 24 hours of airtime a day, so something like this is a god-send to them.
Litlebritdifrnt
@geg6: You had to go there didn’t you. I would think that you, living in a country where some states allow 14 year old girls to get married to grown men with the permission of their parents would think very carefully before accusing anyone, let alone someone who was accused, but NEVER CHARGED with sleeping with a 17 year old of being a pedophile. You live in a country where States think that a 10 year old child should carry the baby of her rapist to term and then raise it and give her rapist visitation. You live in a country where they are introducing laws where a child has to give birth to a child after she has been raped by her father, or her brother, or her uncle. You live in a country where a woman who killed her grooming rapist is ordered by a judge to pay her dead rapists family $150,000. You live in a country where they are introducing laws which state that a Woman must die rather than abort a dead baby that is going to kill her. Sit yourself down.
Ruckus
@coin operated:
Add my $.02 as well.
There isn’t actually any reason for the president to go to PR other than a political photo op.
Betty Cracker
@Litlebritdifrnt: Condolences. I am sorry so many people took the opportunity to show their whole entire ass.
scav
@geg6: I hope you’re really not trying to suggest that your experience as the child of recent British immigrants is the sole, defining and unique experience that encapsulates the entire set of possible relationships of Americans to the monarchy.
VOR
@Cameron: Well, someone’s pocket. Review the Whitefish Energy situation. Whitefish Energy was a 2 person holding company based in Whitefish, Montana. This was also the home town of then Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke, who knew at least one of the principals of the company. Whitefish’s previous largest contract was $1.4M but they were awarded a $300M contract for Puerto Rico. And tell me this isn’t suspicious:
O. Felix Culpa
I watched snippets of the funeral and procession, after the fact. The English definitely do solemn well.
According to the WaPo, something like 4,000 military personnel were involved. I found it striking that–despite England having become a highly diverse society in recent decades–all the soldiers, sailors, royal guard, horsemen, etc. in the procession were white, at least so far as I could see. I also noticed that the “non-working” Royals, namely Andrew and Harry, were outfitted differently than their siblings, who were in what looked like full military regalia. In contrast, no hats, sashes, or gold-striped pants and somewhat fewer medals for the idle Royals. :)
Elizabelle
The Guardian today:
Ndileka Mandela. What Charles can learn from the bond between the Queen and my grandfather
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I get the coverage to some extent and am not surprised by it, but it has been a little over the top. I could put up with some coverage, even a lot of coverage, but wall to wall coverage of this and nothing else here in the US is a bit of a stretch. The newspapers of course are covering other things but the TV news media has been all Queen’s funeral all the time all day, and have dedicated more hours than really I would have thought over the past several days to airing speeches by the new King, etc. when they won’t even air speeches by our actual President. I say that as a bit of an anglophile though not one that has ever followed the royal family all that much. I did make it through season 1 of The Crown and part of season 2 and then things stalled out for me. It oscillated between engrossing and “Really, they’re making that big a fuss over some minor point of etiquette?!?! How silly of these people.” I probably will pick it back up eventually.
That said we don’t have to be rude about the situation. It’s our news media choosing to cover it, no need to get angry at the woman who died or anyone who lives across the pond and is into all the coverage.
Litlebritdifrnt
@FelonyGovt: Good isn’t it? And I am so lucky to live here. My (American) husband intentionally drives along the Promenade to get home because he just loves driving down the bay. It truly is beautiful, and as we live just to the south of the Lake District we are truly fortunate.
zhena gogolia
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: All true. Of course, the framing of the original post models and invites the rudeness.
Elizabelle
@Litlebritdifrnt: Not to mention that one of the two major US parties wants to claw back what little relief some Americans got via Obamacare.
We are the only major country that ties health insurance to one’s employment status, and a lot of people don’t even have access via that.
People die for lack of care, and can lose their home and go bankrupt from medical bills when they do access care.
No one is trying to imitate the US system of health insurance, to my knowledge. It is appalling, and horribly expensive.
PST
@WhatsMyNym:
So is my mother-in-law. She is a very, very kind woman, but I nevertheless am picking up just the slightest hint that she feels like she won this round.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
Dukedom? I always thought they were called dukosities.
Bupalos
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I’m not sure I understand “let us have this.” I respect this outsized mourning as a kind of life-event for the people in the UK. It’s not a criticism of this being meaningful for anyone in that sense. And I’m not sure anyone is really saying “they (the Brits) shouldn’t be doing this.” If anything it’s the opposite.
So it’s a criticism of our own press and populace clamoring for this weird archaic pageantry. And for me, a criticism of a kind of vicarious participation HERE in what is overall just a really problematic institution. No one here (so to speak) has any connection with this lady or can even evaluate her relative role within the institution. They’re consuming and celebrating the institution itself.
There’s a lot of playing-pretend and backwards-looking contained in these various formulations like “longest reigning Monarch in our history.” I heard about 10 minutes of the coverage of the funeral and there were like 6 different references to the huge weight on “King Charles” the Whatever, of “ruling over” the whole kingdom and commonwealth. The whole flavor and extent of the coverage implies a kind of legitimacy and reality to hereditary monarchy, complete with it’s disturbing racial connotations within a cosmopolitan post-empire. I was like “cripes, please say something to let kids know this is all pretend!!”
Ruckus
@Litlebritdifrnt:
The only point I would make is that a lot of Americans likely don’t get the monarchy for life part, as we of course have our senior leader with a max of 8 yrs. So the concept is likely not something many Americans understand all that well. Also there is the point of how the UK government actually works (or sort of doesn’t – Boris)
Also we don’t have the concept of many, many centuries of history as the UK does, of kings and queens, as a nation we are sort of like a 12 yr old, getting there, but not all the way yet.
Anyway, the Queen had a long and seemingly rather successful run as queen and it is sad to see her go, even at 96 yrs old. A good and long life, may she rest in peace.
WhatsMyNym
@PST: LOL
Bupalos
@O. Felix Culpa: Yup, with the proviso that I only saw like 10 or 15 minutes, I found the overwhelming whiteness was a little shocking. It the definition of an unrepresentative institution, but I would have thought they would have been especially sensitive to that reality and made efforts towards a more representative image.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Elizabelle: I get really infuriated with people in the US who scream PEDOPHILE willy nilly ignoring the evidence that it was a 17 year old (over the age of consent) while completely forgetting the following story. While I live in Jacksonville NC there was a horrible story of a Marine who was serving at MCAS New River. He went home on leave to Mississipi (I think could have been Missouri) and with her parents permission married his 14 year old girlfriend. He brought her back to Jacksonville. They got an apartment. He then got deployed to CA for 6 months. He left her in Jacksonville. She was 14. She could not drive, she could not work, she could not go to the bank, she could not apply for benefits. She sat there in her apartment with no food, no support, no money. Eventually the people figured it out and Social services got involved. The Marine was returned to Jacksonville from CA, and everyone had to figure out what to do because the marriage was LEGAL. I do not want to hear a single person who lives in a country that allows this to happen to lecture me and my country about anything.
R-Jud
@O. Felix Culpa:
Huh. My kid and I watched (we’re in the UK, she had optional homework assigned about the whole shebang), and I was quite surprised how much more non-white (and non-male!) the servicemembers were compared to e.g. the Golden or Diamond Jubliees. Heck, the first person to read at the funeral was a woman of color, and there were others throughout the service.
Not exactly the rainbow coalition, but signs of progress, at least to someone who’s lived over here for about 17 years.
eversor
@Ruckus:
I’d wager most Americans do get monarchy. Plenty of people wanted Obama for a third term and plenty of people want Trump crowned a king. Our system was built to stop this but it won’t hold, the first team that gets their autocrat wins.
kalakal
@Litlebritdifrnt: You put it very well. I feel very saddened and moved, she was my Queen all my life l, and it all feels rather strange. I’ve always been pretty apathetic towards the monarchy so I’m surprised how this has affected me. Today is definately one I shall remember as I sniffle my way through it.
piratedan
speaking cynically, the death of the Queen allows the US Media to do what it does best…
show pictures and produce endless hours of speculative drivel that has little real information in it.
I can’t speak to how the Queen was a force of the light or the dark, since by this time, her position was mostly symbolic and I know even less on how traumatic or smoothly the dismantling of the empire was for those who grew up in it or were in those places in the commonwealth that sought their own path politically in leaving it… and her influence, if any that was in place to watch it, guide it and react to those events.
All I know, is that for the last 50 years or so, it continued to be a go-to subject of fodder for those in the US who sought some “newsworthy” escapism that allows them to project themselves into a fantasy of ceremony and wealth that they will never reach but have always been curious about.
For me, it illustrates why we have so many people that do not have a grasp of basic economics, how our political system works and even an understanding of climate change because they’ve escaped into these kinds of topics and events.
cain
It’s interesting – we’re watching all this history and I refuse to watch it directly. The MSM ruins everything with their brainless chatter. I rather just watch it on CSPAN or whatever. More and more, I rather just get hot takes on twitter than watching news reports directly. So sick of their shit.
geg6
@Litlebritdifrnt:
And I don’t support any of that and will dance on the grave of anyone who does. You, on the other hand, are defending a pedophile. Whatever. Go worship your dead queen and her shitty family.
Barbara
@Litlebritdifrnt: Do you actually think marrying your teenaged girlfriend, however misguided and benighted, is the same as receiving underaged girls delivered to your friend’s mansion under false pretenses?
geg6
@scav:
No, I’m suggesting that the most logical way to look at this ridiculous pageant is the way I see it if you are an American. And mentioning that both my dead and live British relatives pretty much feel the same way. Not every Englishman worships the monarchy.
geg6
@O. Felix Culpa:
I heard someone on tv say that Harry wasn’t allowed to wear his uniform because he decided to quit sucking at the royal teat.
Brachiator
@O. Felix Culpa:
By request of the king, Harry wore a uniform during the Vigil of the Princes. And I think he had more medals than his brother. Andrew also wore a uniform a couple of times.
Otherwise, Andrew did not wear a uniform because his royal duties were removed as a public relations move to distance him from the Royal Family because of the hints of scandal that remain a problem for him. Harry stepped away from his royal duties, but I also think that the faction of courtiers who hate him for marrying Meghan wanted to diminish his participation in the funeral as much as possible.
Tony Jay
12 million pounds.
£12,000,000
That’s what it cost to make Andrew the Antiperspirant’s little problem with raping teenagers go away.
And there he is, sobbing his fat little face off on TV like he’s not a creepy little pervert who thinks he got away with it.
Sorry, but no. They are who they are, they do what they do, and they get away with it because it’s convenient for a lot of equally scummy people to have them up there. All of the enforced griefporn in the world can’t and won’t change what many, possibly most, people in Britain think of them.
That’ll do for now.
scav
@geg6: What I find — unusual? but alas not — is you insisting yours is the only American and now logical way for people to feel or think. Such claims of definitive and exclusionary Real Americaness™ sorta misses the point of the national endeavor in my world at least.
PST
The cable news stations are endlessly repetitive every day, even when there is little news. The same old people rehash the same old issues. It’s okay if you tune in for an hour, soul killing if you leave it on all day. The solemnity, pageantry, and pomp of the late Queen’s funerary rites are marvelously visual, and it doesn’t surprise me at all that a cable station would prefer it to the usual daily oatmeal. Each of us is welcome to as much or as little as we wish to take in. It’s not like there isn’t anything else to watch. And it’s not like the coverage reflects any hunger for monarchy here. (I admit there is a hunger in some quarters for a Putinesque dictator, but that is quite unlike a hereditary monarch who reigns but does not rule.) For most of us the British monarchy is a bit like golf or the French language: wonderful for those who love it, even if only of moderate interest to ourselves.
O. Felix Culpa
@R-Jud: Good to know. I watched a fair amount (but not all) of the procession to Wellington Arch and saw a few women, but only white people. I must have missed the POC taking part.
Trapped Lurker
I hadn’t intended to watch the funeral. But I woke up too early today & turned it on. Then I was sucked in by the beauty of the pageantry and the utterly lovely music. (Had to switch to cspan to get rid of the babbling heads, though). Then, against all expectation, when they were lowering the coffin and the queen’s piper was walking away with his back to us, I was suddenly found I was weeping for the my own mother, who died in 2018, while I was watching Charles grieve in public for his. I am not particularly a fan of British monarchy OR of the kardashians, but I’m glad I watched. There is value in beauty IMO. YMMV.
Hoodie
@Tony Jay: Some Scots clearly agree
stinger
God, I’m glad I don’t know some of you IRL. Sincerest condolences to the mourners. I watched nearly every minute of it and was frequently deeply moved. The pageantry and the history are the living embodiment of the British history, biography, and fiction I’ve been reading all my life, and the personal grief resonates, having lost my own mother a few years ago.
If you don’t care about a topic, try not commenting on it.
Litlebritdifrnt
@geg6: No I am not. When Andrew has been indicted, charged and convicted you can come back to me. Until then I am done.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Tony Jay: Tony I love you to bits, but me and you are going to have to agree to disagree on this me ole pal. We will never agree, so perhaps we should just give up.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
Sometimes I call them the Daffy Dukedoms.
Elizabelle
@Trapped Lurker: Great comment.
I think a lot of those who lined up for, and were moved by the funeral and its components, mourn the Queen as a bridge to the past, which is a lot more certain than the present or future.
And a bridge to those we loved who have gone before.
Omnes Omnibus
Congratulations, this is one of the nastier comment threads I have seen on Balloon Juice for a long time. I took a break from this place over the weekend, and I now regret popping back in. JFC!
KSinMA
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Seconded re: not listening to NPR in general.
Zzyzx
I’m among the group that has been confused and befuddled by the amount of attention this has had in the US, but it’s over as of today and by tomorrow there will be some different trivial issue that will be covered non stop.
I have the news forced upon me at the gym so I’ve noticed it a bit there for sure.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ironically, the chief complaint in the post is that the media is focusing on the funeral instead of Puerto Rico.
OTOH, it’s a nice break from talking about the fascists.
Cameron
@Omnes Omnibus: Hey, sharing is caring, and that goes for opinions, too. If I’m thinking, “Joe Biden sucks rotten donkey scrotum” and I don’t let it out, I’m actually disrespecting everybody around me. Right?
Chacal Charles Calthrop
I do think there’s a bit of a “victory lap” going on.
After all, in 1977 Johnny Rotten sang that the Queen was not a human being and that there was no future because of the H-bomb.
Well, no-one has dropped the H-bomb yet, the Queen lived to be 96, Johnny Rotten’s still alive, and it turned out that there was a future for both of them after all. The funeral may be over-the-top, but it’s also a thumb in the eye of the all the naysayers over the decades who claimed we’d never get this far.
LeftCoastYankee
The amount of “don’t say bad things about the queen” comments on a thread about our own colonial territory drowning in the sea is… well, something.
Layer8Problem
@Omnes Omnibus: The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care.
(Not you personally, that is.)
Trapped Lurker
@Elizabelle: thanks. My sister-in-law also pointed out that the crowds passing by as the queen lay in state also then passed a memorial to the >200k (?) lost in th UK to Covid, many of whom could not be properly grieved. Ceremony can help us generalize our humanity and understand our own feelings sometimes.
scav
@LeftCoastYankee: Well, certainly whatever the fuck our sort temporarily talks about incessantly and at volume, matters not a whit to what practical things actually happen where things matter. The chattering classes amuse themselves and there are a lot of such classes at all economic and educational levels.
Ken
Camilla’s wardrobe, probably….
Bupalos
@Litlebritdifrnt: This might be the platonic ideal of whattaboutism. And it’s shocking to me that the institution of the Monarchy can hold so much sway with people. While they’ve all been victims of what is essentially child abuse, Andrew… I mean… seriously?
Tony Jay
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I get that. Seriously, and I wouldn’t willingly offend you for the world. But since I’m not going to change my opinion (and I wouldn’t expect you to) let’s shake hands and let this one go.
I’d also respectfully advise that you give my next Letter from Brexitania piece a miss.
Bupalos
@Zzyzx: Don’t they still have to pour oil on Charles the Whatever’s head or something? Methinks that’s going to get more of this wall-to-wall coverage of nothing. It clearly sells.
Baud
@Ken: I can’t believe she wore a tan dress.
Layer8Problem
@Tony Jay:
That’s . . . actually downright civilized. Thanks, you two.
raven
@Dadadadadadada: You ain’t fought diddly shit.
Bupalos
I think that’s right. That’s also what this reverence for the monarchy is, and a big part of what makes it sell in the US and creates my negative reaction to it. The monarchy persisting in 2022 is a kind of pale and sunnier echo of the global popularity of authoritarianism, for the same reason: vain desire for the past, preferable to unease about the present and terror about the future.
It’s got the racial/hereditary angle in there too.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Layer8Problem: This’ll show Omnes…
”one of nastier comment threads” has a happy ending!
raven
@geg6: So all this bitching and whining and you watched it?
O. Felix Culpa
To change from one bitter subject (for some) to another, Jennifer Rubin writes this in response to the Ken Burns documentary on the U.S. and the Holocaust (which I haven’t seen yet) and the MAGA movement (WaPo):
[snip]
Tony Jay
@Layer8Problem:
We agree on a lot more than we disagree on, and apart from that LBD is a very nice person who it pains me to see upset like this.
How does the phrase go? “Only Shits deal in absolutes”.
ETA – I also feel where geg6 is coming from. Their bafflement and disgust echoes my own.
brendancalling
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: My local affiliate is WHYY in Philly, so the local news is pretty good.
Everything else—with the exceptions of “Fresh Air” and “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me”—is crap. And repetitive crap too. “Snap Judgement” and “This American Life” are basically the same show, and I’d argue “Moth Radio Hour” is pretty similar. “Radio Lab” and “Hidden Brain” are also identical, except the latter is a better sleep aid—Shankar Vedantam, the host, is basically a dose of Ambien in human form. “Here On One Point A And Now”—it’s all the same show. I can’t even tell the difference between the hosts.
Remember “ Car Talk?” That was a good show. Useful, too.
Brachiator
@Bupalos:
The official coronation of King Charles III is an entirely separate ceremony which will happen months from now. This will give some folks a lot of time to work up their outrage and vituperation.
Baud
@Brachiator: I didn’t know that. I thought it happened the other day.
davecb
I loved the pictures of Princess Elizabeth driving a truck in the blitz when I was a little kid, but I really understood how valuable she was when I realized that Britain has had an uninterrupted series of Trump-grade idiots since 1979, and not one of them could put together a coup attempt. Whereas the first Schtroumpf the US elects, tries to overturn the government.
scav
@Bupalos: Don’t quite believe in the political theory of the immaculate national conception myself. Anywhere.
raven
@stinger: New here huh?
geg6
@scav:
Whatever. I am an American. From a country that fought two wars to get away from assholes like the current royal family. If you want to worship or mourn some old bag who has no relevance to your life or country, fine with me. But leave me out. I’m as entitled to my opinion as much as you are. I don’t mourn people I have no respect for and I have none for her or her progeny and don’t know why you think I should.
WhatsMyNym
@Bupalos: It’s a cheap production for the USA media and all who go can make it a nice holiday. Also, it’s in English.
Bupalos
@stinger:
The topic of this post was the fucked up priorities of American media fetishizing this week long royal mourning pagentry, over an actual evolving natural disaster and crisis affecting (habitually ignored) American citizens.
This was transmogrified to a whole new topic, about how important it is to respect British mourning space or how important it is that the Queen died. Which is… interesting.
And now we’re invited to not comment on the-topic-which-was-not-the-topic if we “don’t care about it?”
raven
@geg6: You are left out, fell better now?
geg6
@raven:
FUCK NO! I have avoided all tv except what’s in my Netflix queue or DVR for the past week. Some of this garbage seeps through when my John has the local news on. Because it’s apparently the most important thing happening in Pittsburgh, too.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: The amazing thing is that it took this long for it to happen. I would have expected these douchebags to have come out of the woodwork much earlier.
ian
@geg6:
Let us make sure we have our own (US) history correct. War # 1- getting away from the tyranny of Parliament that we blamed on George3 because it is easier to understand a tyrannical king than a tyrannical legislature. War # 2, in 1812, was the US being mad about Britain and France using trade embargoes against each other and neutral countries to force sides, and then using that anger as a war of conquest and aggression aimed at Native American and Canadian territory. That we lost.
When we act like the war of 1812 was some noble cause, we do our own history a tremendous disservice.
scav
@geg6: Not many are disagreeing with your right to feel whatever it is you feel. Some of us are objecting to you standing at the border demanding that all Americans agree with you or fail to be logical. Far as I can tell, the 13 colonies didn’t want taxation without representation but failed utterly to insist upon absolute and eternal disinterest in ceremonial pageants. My personal viewing habits are irrelevant to my views on proscriptive and exclusionary patriotism.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: Since Charles is far, far less widely beloved than Elizabeth was, he’s been a focus of scandal and gossip for decades, and even the notion of the UK having a king is weird now, I suspect the reactions to his coronation will be… very different in interesting ways. Though I’ve noticed a distinct effort to normalize him.
WhatsMyNym
@raven: Some of them have always been borderline in their comments.
stacib
@brendancalling: Please come sit next to me. OMG, even our local news (WGN) was covering this funeral. No weather, no traffic, no news – all funeral all the time.
geg6
@scav:
I don’t see where I demanded anyone else feel the same as I do. I did mention numerous times that I am appalled and puzzled that my fellow citizens want to worship the Crown. You be you and I’ll be me. I am anti-monarchist. You aren’t. We’re both free to be that and to shout it to the world.
Brachiator
@O. Felix Culpa:
I am working on a post about the Burns documentary. My initial reaction is that the first episode suggests that the topics and issues he raises are too big to be dealt with by what he has done here, even though his work is still thought provoking.
Totally agree. I have found some pundit reactions to Biden to be woefully and perhaps dangerously inadequate. A moderate talk radio host I listened to last night was typical. He insisted on reducing Biden’s remarks to partisan political rhetoric and thought it was a mistake to “insult” Republicans or to make them feel bad. This host absolutely refused to consider whether anything that MAGA people might say or do could in any way be a threat to democracy. He also refused to consider whether Biden’s remarks were an accurate assessment of MAGA Republicans. It is strange how some reporters and pundits prefer to stick their heads in the sand or retreat to bothsiderism.
scav
@geg6: You’re angry, you keep projecting and retreating into binary with us or against us thinking. I don’t think this is you at your best. Please.
Elizabelle
@geg6: You have been poisonous. I wish you would just leave it.
Stop digging
Seriously. You have shit all over our day, a lot of us. And it’s like you cannot stop.
And we are allegedly “friends” and “community” here.
I think this whole ugliness is really interesting after the topic of the immediately preceding post. About using social media to foment discord and blow things up.
People see things differently. We can have some respect. Do not have to eviscerate.
You have made me not want to be around this blog. For a lot of days now.
S Cerevisiae
I think a lot of people bitching about all the coverage over here in the states are forgetting about the wall-to-wall, dawn to dusk coverage of the Chuck and Di wedding, god that got old and back then we didn’t have the internet as an escape.
cain
Gosh y’alls – so much angst in the conversation in here. Looks like we need a subject change.
Can’t we just talk about John’s pets like in the good ol days? :-)
cain
@Elizabelle: Maybe for our part we stop poking her further?
Geminid
@Brachiator: Also, President Biden said explicitly that he was not condemning Republicans outside of the MAGA cult. The talk show host should know this. Perhaps he did, and figured that if he mentioned it his entire argument would fall to pieces.
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: FWIW, although I have no intention of becoming a citizen of another country, if I did I would have eliminate any country that has a monarchy because I won’t swear allegiance to some other person nor do I believe that any person is better than me by virtue of birth. That being said, I do not have any interest in imposing my beliefs on another country. The UK can organize itself as it chooses.
As a history buff, this is an interesting spectacle. And, yes, the MSM coverage is absurd. That being said, if you don’t see your comments on this thread as combative pms over the top, you should maybe have a think on it.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Tony Jay: Deal. Still wouldn’t miss your posts though, I enjoy them so much.
geg6
@ian:
I would not quite characterize the War of 1812 in exactly the same way. It was also about protecting American citizens from the British Navy and, much less sympathetically, from the British ginning up the tribes in the Northwest Territory. Not to mention that they decided to invade and burn our capital.
I never said the War of 1812 was a noble cause. However, I’m not sure I’d characterize the end of that war as a US loss. And it was a war that was a continuation the reaction to Britain’s arrogance throughout the French and Indian War and the Revolution.
geg6
@Elizabelle:
The feeling is mutual. I’m done now. All the monarchists can rejoice.
Elizabelle
@geg6: That’s the point, a-hat.
We are NOT monarchists. Nor MAGAts. But you cannot understand that.
Barbara
@Litlebritdifrnt: He has the weight of legal counsel and official blockades on his side to ensure that never happens.
Geminid
@Brachiator: If you are interested, there is some good commentary on the Burns documentary in both the Times of Israel and the Jerusalem Post.
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: When my grandfather was a kid he lived in Alberta for a few years, and got in some trouble at school because he wouldn’t swear allegiance to the King in some situation or other. But he was a US citizen at the time, and argued, I think correctly, that his denial was not just legitimate but his duty. Actually changing citizenship would presumably be a different deal.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: “and” not “pms.” I do not want that as another trigger.
geg6
@Elizabelle:
Give me credit for not telling you all to go fuck yourselves with a rusty scepter. I’ve behaved quite well, if you ask me.
And now I’m really done.
geg6
@Omnes Omnibus:
No problem. I’m post-menopausal.
Brachiator
@Geminid:
Yeah. Good point. This host is usually more thoughtful, but has some blind spots. One is that he tends to dismiss demonstrations as generally ineffective.
But his remarks here were spectacularly reductive. And as I noted, I have noticed quite a few other pundits on supposedly moderate TV shows dismiss Biden’s remarks as just politics.
Tony Jay
@Litlebritdifrnt:
You can’t see it from there but there’s a thumbs up from over here.
Geminid
@geg6: One could say the War of 1812 was a draw, but as far as outcomes go, the Battle of New Orleans was a very consequential victory for the US. It did occur after the peace was treaty was signed, but it was a big deterrent to future British military ambitions in the Gulf region. Twenty five years later they tried to form an alliance with the new Republic of Texas but their efforts were diplomatic.
And it made for a fun country music hit!
balconesfault
@coin operated: “The current head of FEMA, Deanne Criswell, has an impressive resume and is more than up to the task.”
Well yeah. That’s the point of Biden’s cabinet. To hire honest, competent people and let them do their job.
balconesfault
@Brachiator: These people didn’t learn the lesson from the “deplorable” kerfuffle during the 2016 campaign.
If Republicans say something insulting about the other side, every right wing pundit out there doubles down and amplifies the insult.
When Hillary called out the deplorables among Trump’s base – the left wing media rushed to the fainting couches.
zhena gogolia
@raven: Haha, I have no particular hostility but I haven’t heard anybody say a word about Harry because I haven’t watched any of it. Busy time at work.
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid: I visited that battlefield between my field artillery course and jump school. It was an absolute killing ground for the artillery of the period. The Brits really had their best leaders fighting the Peninsular War at the time.
Ruckus
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Only thing I would say about a 14 yr old getting married is “What the Hell?” I mean I do know that some states allow this disgrace to humanity and they deserve any punishment that anyone wants to come up with. But we do have a lot of leeway between states and the federal government, especially the conservative states, which seem to have as little respect for humanity and limitations beyond the 14th century as possible.
@R-Jud:
I seem to recall that the US had a major slave trade issue that the UK did not have, which would have limited the shear numbers of people of color. But I’ve known people of color who visited and lived in the UK so I know that the number is not zero. (and likely never was, even as it may have been a lot smaller number than the US. I will also note that Britains population is just over 1/5 of the US population so between these two points one is just not going to see as many people of color.
Brachiator
@Geminid:
Thanks for this. I will definitely take a look.
kalakal
@Tony Jay: Makes sense to me. I’m with littlebrit on this one but I don’t think having a flamewar helps. On this one our opinions differ (which doesn’t happen a lot) so what?
I get the objection to the saturation coverage, I expect the main reason for that excessive coverage is that the networks see it as a goldmine,
Ruckus
@Tony Jay:
I believe that we all see our own country in one of 3 ways.
First, we think that it and it’s people can do nothing wrong, which is proven time and again to be less than true.
Second, we think that it and it’s people can do nothing right, which is proven time and again to be less than true.
Third, we understand that all countries are really made up of human beings, none of whom are always right or always wrong, there is a wide range of stuff that people do that is right and wrong and they wouldn’t be people if they didn’t and yet some are far more wrong or far more right most of the time and they are (hopefully) the few and far between.
I like #3 because I’ve found that almost no one is 100% right or wrong even though there are always exceptions to every human rule. Take SFB. Please!
O. Felix Culpa
@Ruckus: Google says England’s current population is about 13% non-white, which was not reflected in the funeral procession, as best I could tell with admittedly limited viewing.
England may not have had slaves at home, but they sure did a lot of colonizing and slave-trading. Thanks to Wilberforce et al., they eventually stopped the latter. Many of the current POC in England are from former colonies such as India, Pakistan, East Africa, and various Caribbean islands.
Frank Wilhoit
@Litlebritdifrnt: You loved her, in an appropriate way, and you’re going to miss her. You are absolutely entitled to that. God forbid anyone should try to shame you for it.
She’s up there right now trying to explain to her grandfather, George V, why she didn’t order David Cameron to remain in post after the referendum, the way he handled Ramsay MacDonald in 1931. She will have heard him tell that story a dozen times: “By God, Sir, you got me into this; and you will get me out.” He’ll forgive her in time.
sab
@geg6: They burned our capital after we burned theirs in Ontario the previous February, leaving a bunch of Canadian families homeless in the middle of a Canadian winter.
kalakal
@O. Felix Culpa: Slavery was common in Britain from as far back as records go but was ended by the Norman Conquest in 1066 when it morphed into serfdom. Legally the big case was the Somerset case in 1772 when it was ruled that slavery was not recognized under English law. This applied to England, not the colonies. The slave trade was abolished in 1807 and slavéry banned the in the colonies in 1833.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_v_Stewart
The really big influx of people from the colonies began after WWII with the British Nationality Act of 1948 which UK & Commonweath citizenship to everybody living in the UK and the colonies. The government encouraged mass immigration to fill labour shortages caused by wartime losses. Often called the Windrush Generation after the name of the first ship carrying immigrants from the West Indies, the Empire Windrush. Over the last few years the British Govt has been acting disgracefully towards many of these people and their descendents ( who were invited & encouraged to come, given cheap transport etc), trying to deport them for gaps in 60 & 70 year old paperwork. They pulled the same shit on Gurkha ex-soldiers, trying to claim they’d never served in the British Army but rather that they’d been mercenaries. They really are stupid shits.
Martin
@Dangerman: It is. So, one of the lessons you learn with government is that are heavily biased toward annual costs, not total costs. So a $1M repair every year is _cheaper_ than a $3M fix that will last forever, because only the legislature has the authority to borrow against future costs, and if they don’t do that on your behalf, you’re going to be stuck paying the recurring costs because that’s all you’re budgeted for.
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, they did send General Pakenham over. He came back preserved in a barrel of rum.
Cameron
@Geminid: I should be so lucky.
O. Felix Culpa
@kalakal: Thank you for the additional details. No argument with your final sentence. :)
Citizen Alan
@kalakal: My feelings about the death of Queen Elizabeth are approximately the same as my feelings were about the death of Betty White. I didn’t know either one of them personally in the slightest, but they were fixtures in the background noise of my life for as far back as I can remember. When circumstances made me aware of them, I held a generally favorable opinion of them both. And I feel a vague sadness at the knowledge that two elderly women I kind of sort of liked even though I didn’t know them personally at all were gone forever. But that’s pretty much it.
Tony Jay
@kalakal:
Zaktly. People can feel how they like about the monarchy just as with everything else, it only becomes an argument when one or both or a multitude take the difference of opinion personally. That’s not something I have much time for.
OTOH, at this moment in the UK there’s zero official respect for any opinion other than the one being white-noised out of every media outlet. It’s not monarchists being arrested for voicing their opinions. That goes waaaay beyond any calls for ‘showing respect’ and is three feet and a scaly tail across the line into official intolerance of opinion, and that I have even less time or patience for.
@Ruckus:
Option Three, please. Always and every time. If there’s one thing that history teaches us, it’s that it’s never just one thing. Complicated people, all of us.
Pardon my ignorance, though, but what it SFB?
Matt McIrvin
@Ruckus: There’s a fourth one that is the worst of all: that our country does bad things but it’s only because of a noxious, fundamentally alien element that must be eliminated.
Matt McIrvin
@O. Felix Culpa: Remember, this is London. And I can tell you from just having been there that the general population in London is way more non-white than the stats I’ve seen for the UK as a whole.
This makes certain people like Andrew Sullivan have a cow.
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay: That is the shorthand Ruckus uses for Trump.
Shit for brains. For some reason that makes my skin crawl, but there it is.
Denali
While the media coverage has certainly been over the top, I don’t get this antipathy towards a woman who showed up and did her duty for a symbolic role for over seventy years. This itself is a remarkable achievement. We should respect that; it was not her responsibility to make political decisions. She became as iconic in her country as our flag is in ours. Her passing marks the end of an era, and we should honor her memory.
Cacti
All of this is starting remind me of Chevy Chase’s old SNL bit that “in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead”.
kalakal
@Tony Jay: Shit For Brains = Trump.
I’ve not changed my basic indifference to the monarchy but she was part of the background of my life, all my life.
I hated Thatcher but I didn’t celebrate her death, I did celebrate her getting kicked out. The only person whose death I can remember celebrating was Peter Sutcliffe’s, he murdered someone I knew and terrorised where I lived for years
Tony Jay
@WaterGirl:
Ah! Gotcha.
Thought you were going to give this thread a miss? Wasn’t that bad, though, was it? Just a few differences of opinion, dealt with in the end.
Tony Jay
@kalakal:
I get you. I don’t share the feeling, but I can understand it.
And to clarify, I don’t see anyone celebrating her death. Personally, I don’t care, it means nothing to me. I do care about being told by the Media that I should care and not doing so is somehow disrespectful. That’s the problem. ‘They’ don’t get to tell me or millions of other people that we’re somehow not doing it right because we’re not sad and haven’t changed our opinions about the quality of the Windsors as people.
Some pushback has to be expected.
The Lodger
@geg6: Speaking of music, does anyone know how much timwe must elapse before Another One Bites the Dust is allowed back on the BBC playlist?
kalakal
@Tony Jay:
I’m with you 100% on that one. I watch stuff all TV so it hasn’t really bothered me but I remember being really pissed of with all the crap about Diana and then the Queen Mother. Their deaths didn’t impact me, the feeding frenzy did.
I’ve been utterly indifferent to the media’s opinion ever since Diana died, weeks of unmitigated crap about something I didn’t care about.
Never had so much bollocks been talked by so many to so many more
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
As an American, I don’t understand either the adoration of the Queen or the venom directed at her. One thing I do think is true, based on what others have said about her, what she has said, and how she has behaved is that her love of country and sense of duty was sincere. For all her many flaws, I respect that. While I’m sure some American multimillionaires do love the country and do have a sense of obligation to its welfare, I’ve gotten the distinct impression that most only care about our currency. To the extent they can get away with it, they would happily bleed this country dry and leave it to rot.
ColoradoGuy
I’m not sure Americans are aware of the mirror images of Elizabeth I and Elizabeth II. Elizabeth I ushered in The Age of Empires (and fended off the Spanish Armada and a Catholic takeover) and Elizabeth II quietly reigned over the (mostly peaceful) dissolution of the world’s biggest empire, with the last speck blinking out with the handover of Hong Kong.
Republics don’t usually handle the loss of empire gracefully. Look at France, both in Vietnam and Algeria, with a secret group of ex-colonels repeatedly trying to assassinate the leader of France. Or the even worse example of the collapse of the Weimar Republic.
A monarchy that is filled with symbolism but completely empty of power has probably saved the UK from the worst of dying-empire humiliation and revanchism, although Murdoch has done his worst with Brexit. The British pageantry strikes Americans as silly, but America doesn’t need much in the way of state symbols … what we have on this continent is raw, brute power, hundreds of millions of guns, combined with the world’s most powerful Navy and Air Force, and the small matter of 4,000 nuclear weapons at the sole discretion of the President. With power that exceeds the wildest dreams of a Roman Emperor, you don’t need much in the way of symbols. A flag and a glint of steel is sufficient.
Elizabeth II’s legacy is the peaceful dissolution of a world empire on a scale never seen before in history. True, the USA forced the matter after WWII, but that’s still what happened. Compare with the domestic reactions in France, Germany, or Russia, which were far smaller Imperial losses.
Brachiator
@ColoradoGuy:
Totally agree with you. And this happened despite the initial fantasies of Churchill and others that Britain could hold onto the Empire.
I will note, however, there are those who elevate the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Liberty Bell and the revolutionary spirit of the Founders as our great national mythology.
Pretty good for a nation that barely won its war of independence, and which initially did not believe in the need for a standing army.
columbusqueen
@Trapped Lurker: I had the same reaction, remembering burying both my mother & grandmother before I turned 50. After a lifetime as Jean’s daughter & Evelyn’s grandmother, I still sometimes wonder who I am now they’re both gone.
columbusqueen
@columbusqueen: granddaughter, I meant.
Matt McIrvin
@ColoradoGuy: and the US has been losing wars with that fantastic military for half a century, because we can’t connect that brute force to desirable political outcomes… which has caused us to freak out in horrible ways politically. So I might count us in the “bad imperial losses” category.