Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Go Senator Whitehouse!

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Republicans got rid McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Thanks for reminding me that Van Jones needs to be slapped.

It’s a doggy dog world.

Let there be snark.

You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / Trump Crime Cartel Open Thread: “11th Circuit” Trending on Twitter…

Trump Crime Cartel Open Thread: “11th Circuit” Trending on Twitter…

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138Comments

  1. 1.

    LAO

    The decision is very well written (and I think ) easy for non-lawyers to understand, there’s a link at politico.  (I can’t remember how to link because I’ve reverted back to lurking)

    ETA: having appeared before Dearie for years, I wasn’t surprised by how he conducted the hearing yesterday and I can’t imagine why he was on Trump’s list for SM.

  4. 4.

    Renie

    Can someone clarify for me the STAY part of the Opinion.  Does it mean the hand over of the classified documents to the Special Master does not happen?  The beginning of the statement says “The District Court order is STAYED” but then refers to two separate items.  I don’t recall if the original order covered the gov’t use of the docs & giving them to the Special Master.  I thought that was two separate orders.  Thanks.

  5. 5.

    SiubhanDuinne

    O/T (because it’s an O/T): Asking the Jackaltariat, is there somewhere (easy to access) a list of all the different “hat” nyms that Popehat has used on Twitter?

    If it matters, I don’t have a Twitter account. But maybe (she said hopefully) someone has compiled them?

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    @Renie:

    Can someone clarify for me the STAY part of the Opinion.  Does it mean the hand over of the classified documents to the Special Master does not happen?

    Correct.  The Special Master does not get the classified documents and the US government can now get back to their investigation – they are no longer prohibited from investigating.

  10. 10.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @LAO: ​
      I have obviously never appeared before him but his rep seemed too straight shooter for the Trumpies. No wonder the DOJ said “Okay, fine, sure” to his name.

  11. 11.

    Mike in NC

    Years ago somebody did a fake TIME magazine cover that showed Trump, Ivanka, Jared, and Shithead Jr all wearing orange jumpsuits and handcuffs. Hopefully that person was prescient.

  16. 16.

    bbleh

    @WaterGirl: Pending appeal, i.e., “for now.”  And only with respect to the “100 or so” documents with classification markings.

    It does raise the question, is this a solid enough stay that DOJ will say “cool, cool,” and continue apace, or are they worried enough that it might fall apart again — maybe in an en banc decision — that they pull the trigger on an indictment sooner rather than later?

    I’d guess the former — the decision was unambiguous and even pointed — but the classified docs really are the heart of the case.  If they can’t use those, they got a MUCH harder row to hoe.  The rest, I’d guess they’re willing to chill, and if they can’t use ’em, oh well.

  17. 17.

    Ishiyama

    I loved the riff on how equity does not ordinarily enjoin criminal prosecution – even though the burden of being a suspect may be worrying the ex-President.

  19. 19.

    WaterGirl

    @Renie: Correct.  The 11th Circuit basically said:  Classified is classified, and they are the government’s documents, so by definition Trump cannot have a personal interest.

    The commenter above is correct – “for now”.  It can still be appealed to the so-called Supreme Court.

    But for now, the government gets to continue the investigation and no one on team Trump or the Special Master gets to see the 100 classified documents.

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    Thanks, that’s really useful to know. I’m turning in early now, but I can dig tomorrow — or maybe wake up at 3:00 am and discover that somebody’s already done it for me!!

  21. 21.

    LAO

    @bbleh: This decision is what we (lawyers) call a total bench slap.  The Circuit’s decision is a truly remarkable and complete evisceration.  It is probably a casebook example of a rock solid stay.  I’m going to be very interested in what the Supreme Court does when it make it to them.

  25. 25.

    Steeplejack

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    One ETA: You don’t have to have a Twitter account to read stuff on Twitter. If you have a notice pop up telling you to sign up or log in, click “sign in” or “log in” and then click the little “close this window” X on the next screen. Back to reading with no problems.

  26. 26.

    NickM

    IMO the Supreme Court is more about the movement than Trump specifically. Enough of them could be smart enough to cut him loose, and this case would make it easy.  They’re sociopaths with no respect for the law, but they may not want to lose even more respect in such a partisan move for an albatross on their necks.

  27. 27.

    Felanius Kootea

    And people were (perhaps reasonably) worried about the 11th circuit!  NYT excerpt:

    In a strongly worded 29-page decision, the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit blocked part of an order by a federal judge that had temporarily barred the department from using the classified materials in its inquiry into whether Mr. Trump illegally retained national defense documents and obstructed the government’s repeated efforts to recover them.

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I look forward to taking you up on that, hopefully after the new year. Definitely need to get down there to see some old friends, who (I think) live quite close to  you.

  29. 29.

    LAO

    I didn’t realize that the 11th Circuit rules expressly forbid an en banc review of stay orders.  On to the Supremes it is:

     

    Eleventh Circuit Rule 35-4 expressly prohibits en banc reconsideration of panel rulings on applications for stays.In English, if Trump wants to continue to defend Judge Cannon’s injunction, his only remaining option is #SCOTUS (where, IMHO, he’ll lose):https://t.co/PbyNFqkNgq pic.twitter.com/9rQ4ApbuR9— Steve Vladeck (@steve_vladeck) September 22, 2022

  31. 31.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @LAO:

    I think Dearie was involved in a ruling involving the Crossfire Hurricane investigation, wasn’t he? Maybe that’s where they got his name from?

  33. 33.

    bbleh

    @LAO: Speculation I saw was that they thought he might have a skeptical attitude toward all things FBI, and that he was very “methodical” and thus would take a lot of time and raise a lot of questions.

    (Keeping in mind that we’re talking about the rapidly rotating clown circus that is the Trump legal team here …)

  35. 35.

    bbleh

    @LAO: whoa neither did I — I figured next step was en banc appeal.  Well how about that.

    Alas, the Justice who handles emergency appeals for 11 is … wait for it … Clarence Thomas!

  37. 37.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Since it got bulldozed in the rush, let me add MORE legal folderol.  Alex Jones’ bankruptcy court hearing did not go his way.  It went so wildly not his way that the judge declared that he’s getting an independent party not associated with Jones to run Infowars until the financial threads can be untangled.

  38. 38.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @bbleh:

    That’s exactly it:

    In October 2016, when Dearie was a FISA judge, the court approved a wiretap of a foreign policy adviser on Trump’s presidential campaign. The Justice Department requested the surveillance of former Trump adviser Carter Page as part of the FBI’s “Crossfire Hurricane” investigation, which looked into ties between Trump’s campaign and Russia. Two of the four warrants approved to surveil Page were later deemed invalid after the Justice Department’s inspector general found misstatements and omissions in FBI paperwork to get the warrant.

    Two anonymous sources with direct knowledge of the deliberations told Axios that lawyers and advisers of Trump believe Dearie’s role on the secretive court made him a deep skeptic of the FBI after its surveillance of Page, which influenced Trump’s legal team’s decision to suggest him.

    “This experience drove the Trump team’s thinking in requesting him,” the outlet reported, adding that “Trump’s lawyers are betting that has made Dearie more skeptical of the FBI than an average judge — in a way that endures beyond the Page case.”

    Basically, because of one case that came before him out of the probable hundreds he has presided over, they thought he would be a credulous moron skeptical of the FBI

  39. 39.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @raven: He’s on deck

    It’s on MLB tv

    Eta: he’s up

    Eta: he grounded out – that’s it for tonight

  41. 41.

    LAO

    @bbleh: It certainly is a clown show.  But seriously Dearie does not waste time.  He’s an old school, move it along judge.  And frankly it’s was a real misreading of the situation by team trump. The issues are not complicated or difficult, despite Trump’s best efforts at obfuscation.  What may fly in Florida doesn’t in the EDNY.

  46. 46.

    Steeplejack

    On today’s other front, Liz Dye had an incisive, funny thread that goes through Letitia James’s suit in detail. She lands some zingers. Mazars (the accounting firm) “gets off the hook for ‘compiling’ financial-statement-shaped documents for Trump.” “So Mazars wasn’t so much acting as ‘accountants,’ they were more like the graphics department.” The thread’s worth a look.

  49. 49.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): TFG only views people as friend or enemy.  He can’t even conceive of someone actually deciding based on merit and the law.  Dearie’s ruling on Page was good for him, therefore he must be a friend, was Trump’s thinking.

  52. 52.

    bbleh

    @WaterGirl: @Parfigliano: Wouldn’t team Trump already know what the 100 classified documents contain…

    Speculating here, but I think this is the … hilarious? horrible? how-did-the-writers-get-away-with-this? part of it.  I DON’T think “team Trump” DOES know.  I don’t think Trump HIMSELF knows exactly, beyond a few specific recollections.  (Jared may also know a few things, or Rudy, or somebody else who told him “you gotta save that.”) But I don’t think they know exactly what the government has, i.e., what their client squirreled away at the WH and then took with him to Mag-a-Lardo in contravention of every law and principle related to national defense information.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if, when they asked him, he obfuscated or refused to answer, or just got mad, beyond maybe a couple of specific things.  I think this is one reason they’ve been so insistent on getting the documents back, and on getting more specific inventories

    I think it’s not merely that he is fked, I think it’s worse because his lawyers don’t really have a complete picture of HOW fked he is.

  54. 54.

    persistentillusion

    @SiubhanDuinne: @PopeHatNames. Also goes by Popehat Name Changes, but that’s not it’s name.  V funny, IMHO.

    ETA: Finally! Someone asked a question I could answer!

  55. 55.

    Ken

    @Steeplejack:  Letitia James’s suit

    Oooh, “The Trump Organization kept two sets of books”.  Now that’s something anyone can understand.

    Also this person “Allen Weisselberg” that’s mentioned several times sounds familiar. Now where have I heard that name recently…

  57. 57.

    LAO

    I didn’t realize Trump is being interviewed on Fox tonight.  Talk about an elephant in the room.  How will Trump talk about his personal persecution and victimization without mentioning the 11th Circuit.  What a joke.

  59. 59.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @LAO: ​
      ya know, I was going to hit you with a Vinny Gambini joke since he practices in EDNY but i thought too many people wouldn’t know that one.

  60. 60.

    Shalimar

    @Parfigliano: If Trump remembers what was in the classified documents, he does not seem to have shared that information with his lawyers.  In the hearing before Dearie, they were insistent that they need to find out what the documents were before they could decide on a defense.

  62. 62.

    LAO

    @bbleh: I guarantee you that his lawyers have absolutely no clue what is going on and what documents were seized.  No question about it.

  64. 64.

    WaterGirl

    @bbleh:  Team T truly seems desperate to get their hands on the classified documents.

    Maybe Team T needs to know what they have so they can assess just how bad it is?

    It’s hard to know what lies you need to tell if you don’t know what they know.

    I suspect there are more classified documents than what the DOJ, but of course that’s total speculation.

  67. 67.

    LAO

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: I once quoted spinal tap to a prosecutor and they didn’t get the reference. It was a totally humbling experience that had the added bonus of making me feel old.

    But My Cousin Vinny is a Classic (seriously, if I’m scrolling cable and it’s on, I’m watching.  I love that movie).

  73. 73.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Steeplejack:

    That’s a great thread! Haven’t read through all of it, but I had no idea MAL was valued at around $750 million and instead should be valued closer to $75 million. That’s 10 times what it should be worth!

  74. 74.

    LAO

    @WaterGirl: Serious answer — probably not because it depends on the context,  That being said, public statements certainly can be used to establish state of mind and intent.  But, he’s not under oath so it has limited direct value. That’s just my opinion, I’m sure smarter people may disagree.

  75. 75.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @WaterGirl:

    Maybe Team T needs to know what they have so they can assess just how bad it is?

    I can’t see how specific knowledge helps them.  A general knowledge that there were some DoD secrets, some intelligence sources identifying information, that kind of thing, tells them what level of shit they’re in.  They should have that, even if nobody remembers details.  A list of everything won’t help them construct a fable about how those items were declassified, since there’s no paper trail anyway.  There’s nothing they can say about ‘Oh, but it was fine to have THIS document’ that will make the slightest bit of difference legally.

    The only two possibilities I can see for wanting access are A) he has buyers and forgot to take photos, oops, or B) “See, Donny?  Here’s all your shiny picture books.  Now that the judge agrees we can look at them, I’m sure she’ll let you keep them forever.”

    EDIT – Okay, I can think of a third possibility, and I admit it is very, very plausible:  “HERP A DERP DERP I’M A LAWYER DERP DERP LAW STUFF HUR HUR HUR.”  Simple, straight-up incompetence, some plan that makes no sense to people who aren’t wacked out on Kool Aid.

  76. 76.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @LAO: ​  I just ordered my first electric vehicle, a Ford Lightning, and one of its many selling points is it includes a slip differential (the key piece of Brady material that broke the Gambini case wide open)​

  77. 77.

    Sparkedcat

    @WaterGirl:

    Correct. Judge Dearie stated that he did not want to review the classified documents. With the 11th circuit ruling his wish has been granted.

  79. 79.

    LAO

    @Lapassionara: It’s so crazy but in my law school trial advocacy class, we actually what the “grits cross-examination scene” as an example of the perfect cross-exam.  I still think of it when ever I’m preparing a cross.

  82. 82.

    J R in WV

    @Steeplejack:

    What a pretty kitty — she looks very  much like our Spike, so named for her  sharpness!

    Sorry for your loss !  We never forget  the great ones.

  86. 86.

    LAO

    @WaterGirl: Well, there you go.  When I’m wrong, I’m wrong

     

    ! TRUMP to Hannity on declassifying documents:There doesn’t have to be a process, as I understand it. If you’re the president of the United states, you can declasify … **even by thinking about it**"— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) September 22, 2022

  88. 88.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @LAO:

    Have you ever tried quoting Billy Madison lol?:

    “At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

  91. 91.

    bbleh

    @Frankensteinbeck: not an expert, but I think at least some details would matter when planning a defense.  The US wants “Goldilocks” material to show juries — secret enough that the seriousness of the crime is evident, but not so secret that they can’t risk showing it to a jury at all.  And the lawyers wanna know how angry the IC is — if there’s material that compromises human sources, or (worse) could be traced to actual losses, they’d pursue a harder plea-bargain, even absent the possibility of presenting that specific material to a jury.

    If I were on Clown Team Trump, *I* would certainly want to know.  But I dunno if I’d have done it even for a $3M retainer, unless it was my swan-song.

  94. 94.

    Ken

    @LAO: Could public statements be useful for the defense? For example, to support a claim of mental incompetency?

    (Though of course the prosecution could claim that it was all an act, especially since TFG is well-known as an actor whose skills should have won an Emmy.)

  97. 97.

    Scout211

    Fallows watched Hannity so we don’t have to: Twitter

    In case you were wondering, tonight’s Hannity is wall-to-wall interview w TFG at Mar-a-Lago: Interview filmed before 11th Circuit threw out Cannon’s ruling. Premise of most of Hannity’s question is that Cannon was right on the merits. Also, literally, “What about Hunter Biden?

  98. 98.

    LAO

    @Omnes Omnibus: I love that movie.  Today while I was trying to get my dog to stop rolling on the street in the middle of 3d Avenue, I used the “mime is money” line,  People on the street gave me an exceptionally wide berth.  Damn I am old.

  99. 99.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @LAO: ​
      If he’s going with the “Carnac the Magnificent” defense, then it’s game over – he’s got nothing to support his declassify claim.

  100. 100.

    WaterGirl

    @bbleh:

    If I were on Clown Team Trump, *I* would certainly want to know.  But I dunno if I’d have done it even for a $3M retainer, unless it was my swan-song.

    Exactly!  It makes no sense unless it’s like the bank robbers or hired assassins – I’m gonna pull this one last job and then I’m done.

  101. 101.

    Brachiator

    “I, me, mine…”

    At this point, I don’t think Trump wanted to sell classified documents to the highest bidder, or include them as souvenirs in his hotels or wave them around like a symbolic phallus in front of guests to forever prove how Bigly he is. Or maybe all this and more. I don’t think he even knows what is in most of the documents he took.

    But most of all, this farce demonstrates that Trump is a stubborn, immature, mentally unstable man-child who wants to hold onto shit just because he can and because holding onto shit satisfies some insecurity deep in his troubled psyche. He desperately needs to show everyone how important he is.

    The government is using rational measures to recover what rightfully belongs to the executive branch. In the end, Trump may be forced to comply. But he will never let it go. He can’t.

  103. 103.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @WaterGirl: ​
      Worse than that. He’s conceding he has nothing to support his claim that he declassified documents. No paper work. No witnesses. He never even said it out loud to a 3rd party. He only has his invisible “thought”.

  104. 104.

    LAO

    @WaterGirl: I actually think the lawyers have told him that he did not declassify the documents and he’s trying to establish that he believed that he declassified them.  I base my opinion solely on the fact that the attorneys haven’t claimed declassification in any filings, although they have been afforded the opportunity to do so.

    ETA: but I don’t think it helps him at all.

  111. 111.

    bbleh

    @LAO: I may be misunderestimating him, but I don’t give him credit for both having an understanding of the legal implications of establishing such a state of mind and executing a strategy to try to do so.  I just don’t think he has the mental capacity or discipline for that.

    I think what’s going on is his standard narcissistic MO: I want to believe this now, therefore I believe it totally.  Kash told me I can do it, and it would mean there’s no crime, and it fits with my image of myself as powerful, so I BELIEVE it, and I will insist on it until the rest of the world gives up in frustration or is beaten down by my legions of lawyers.   It’s like has been said about some sales-people, “breathing your own exhaust,” taken to a pathological extreme.

    (Plus, y’know, all that stuff about classification status doesn’t matter for any of the statutes mentioned in the warrant …)

    @Scout211:  yeah, or that

  113. 113.

    Bill Arnold

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    That’s 10 times what it should be worth!

    When people say every (real estate) developer does it, well, truth(y), but not 10x (or 60x). 10x is a sign of absolute faith that one is above the law.
    D.J. Trump was not trusted in NYC.

  114. 114.

    Burnspbesq

    Any lawyer who has ever had to deal with real estate valuation issues knows the ancient joke about MAI (the professional qualification for appraisers) standing for “ made as instructed.” Soon the whole world will be in on it.

  115. 115.

    GregMulka

    I, a not lawyer, was rewarded for reading this with Cobbledick v United States on page 28. Yes I am a grown person, why do you ask?

     

    Also, FPOTUS getting his orange tuckus handed to him.

  116. 116.

    Bill Arnold

    @LAO:
    I’ve been so hoping that Trump would do the “declassification by thinking about it” in an interview. And Kyle Cheney goes for the next step, that we’ve also been hoping for. Checkmate, FPOTUS D.J. Trump! POTUS J. Biden has had reclassification authority since 12:00 PM January 20, 2021! Including mental reclassification of improperly declassified documents!

    I wonder how often Biden has quietly thought about how highly classified those documents at Mar-a-Lago are.— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) September 22, 2022

  117. 117.

    danielx

    @WaterGirl: ​ The Razor of dear old Occam: or it could just be his congenital inability to keep his mouth shut.​
     
    Eta: even when it’s in his own best interest.

  118. 118.

    japa21

    If I heard Trump correctly, he claims that just by sending the documents to Mar-a-Lardo, the documents automatically became declassified. Wow!!

  119. 119.

    Burnspbesq

    @LAO:

    No it doesn’t, because classification is completely superfluous when the issue is whether something qualifies as “national defense information” under section 793.

  120. 120.

    LAO

    @Burnspbesq: you’re absolutely right. I can’t believe I let myself be sucked into the really stupid Trump arguments. I should have said that all of this, including the Hannity performance, is merely performance art directed at trumps believers. Because you are correct that whether the documents are declassified or not has no legal meaning for his criminal liability.

    I’m going to take this as my cue to go to bed.

  121. 121.

    MomSense

    Bittersweet tidings from the last open mic.  It’s a reunion and a farewell.  We are finishing hour four  and I’ve never laughed or cried so much at one go.

  122. 122.

    Barbara

    I think the DOJ was pretty shrewd in how it positioned this appeal. Basically, it only appealed the limitations that Cannon imposed on the use of classified information. But the four part standard of review applies to all of the information that was seized under the warrant — and the court of appeals found that she abused her discretion on each of the four criteria, beginning with the first — that in seizing property the government acted with callous disregard to Trump’s constitutional rights.
    So while the court’s decision only applies to the 100 classified documents, I’m guessing that the opinion gave a rather strong signal to Dearie that he can wrap up his review of the documents for AC privilege (which might be legitimate) and executive privilege (which is completely insane) and not worry too much about getting second guessed let alone fired by judge Cannon. If after this she still tries to interject herself into a criminal investigation (which is basically what she did) I would imagine an even sharper opinion, like remand with an order to dismiss the action.​

  123. 123.

    Bill Arnold

    @LAO:

    I should have said that all of this, including the Hannity performance, is merely performance art directed at trumps believers.

    Trump believes a lot of seriously weird stuff. Remember the Chinese Hurricane Gun?
    He’s also a The Power of Positive Thinking (arguably a form of Chaos Magic, and related to Prosperity Gospels) guy; the author, Norman Vincent Peale, presided at his wedding to Ivana.
    His “beliefs” are transactional like the rest of his life, but he appears to be able to suppress doubt pretty well if needed to feed his own narcissistic needs.

  124. 124.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Barbara:

    I know anyone is capable of being corrupt of course, but it really disgusts me that she’s so flagrantly corrupt and willing to give aid and comfort to an authoritarian like Trump when her own mother fled Cuba under Fidel Castro. Columbia is also not a bastion of law, order, and justice:

    Aileen Mercedes Cannon was born in 1981 in Cali, Colombia. Her mother had fled Cuba under Fidel Castro. She attended Ransom Everglades School, a private high school in Miami, Florida.

    After graduating from Duke University in 2003 with a Bachelor of Arts, Cannon worked as a paralegal for the U.S. Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division from 2003 to 2005. She then attended the University of Michigan Law School, where she was an articles editor for the University of Michigan Journal of Law Reform. She graduated in 2007 with a Juris Doctor magna cum laude and Order of the Coif membership.

  126. 126.

    Barbara

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): ​ Fidel Castro replaced an authoritarian dictator. You assume that people who oppose some dictators oppose all dictators, when it may be that they simply oppose authoritarian rulers who do not favor their economic or social interests.​

  127. 127.

    Bill Arnold

    @Leto:
    For many years, my commute passed “Donald J. Trump State Park” in both directions. It was almost certainly another tax fraud, although not AFAIK in the current legal actions.
    Donald J. Trump State Park, Yorktown, New York – This forlorn park is the result of a failed investment turned tax dodge.

    DONALD J. TRUMP STATE PARK IS covered in weeds, wild brush, and the foundations of abandoned homes. It’s not even listed on the New York State Parks website.
    …
    While Trump described the donation as a charitable act, reporting by Bloomberg notes that Trump used the value of the gift as a tax write-off, and asked local officials to value the land at five times its assessed value to maximize savings on his taxes.

  128. 128.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Barbara:

    I get that. It just really sticks in my craw that somebody like Cannon would come here, to a free, albeit imperfect, society like the US that affords her so many opportunities and then acts to undermine those freedoms and opportunities for others; to attempt to destroy a constitutional, representative democracy that has existed for over 200 years. It’s like biting the hand that feeds

  129. 129.

    Another Scott

    @japa21: TFG is just playing Calvinball.  None of his statements can be taken seriously.

    He wants what he wants and thinks he can browbeat everyone else into giving him what he wants without consequences. He’s done it all his life and it’s usually worked.

    The fact that he and his staff didn’t immediately allow the NARA to collect everything that they wanted, and didn’t immediately let them check to make sure that there wasn’t any other classified stuff as soon as it was found, shows that they don’t care about the rules.  It couldn’t be clearer.

    VOANews (from August 9):

    Since 2005, the FBI and the Justice Department have launched at least 11 such investigations, some targeting high-profile former U.S. officials, including a former national security adviser and a former CIA director.

    Others who have been prosecuted and who have pleaded guilty or were convicted include Defense Department employees, defense contractors and employees or contractors with the FBI, the CIA and the National Security Agency.

    Here’s a list of some notable cases:

    […]

    March 2015 – Retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus, a former CIA director, pleaded guilty to one count of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. The plea followed revelations that Petraeus shared some of the materials with his biographer and mistress.

    Petraeus was sentenced to two years of probation and a $100,000 fine.

    Petraeus got off easy. TFG will try to blame someone else. I don’t think it will work, and I don’t think TFG will get by with probation because he’ll probably never admit he was wrong.

    He has no leg to stand on. His lawyers know it.

    But they have to go through the motions so that his fragile ego doesn’t get damaged and so he doesn’t yell at them and throw hamberders or omelets and make a mess.

    Here’s hoping the courts continue to shut down this nonsense expeditiously.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130.

    RaflW

    @Frankensteinbeck: And of course the NYT has to get fancy and not call Jones a cruel, evil serial liar: Citing a “lack of candor,” including over the Infowars fabulist’s lavish spending, the judge ordered substantive changes to his company’s oversight.

    Augusten Burroughs is a fabulist. David Sedaris is a fabulist.

    Alex Jones is the lowest form of scumbag , using the violent deaths of children to gain prominence and money.

  131. 131.

    RaflW

    @WaterGirl: “Team T truly seems desperate to get their hands on the classified documents.”

    Alternate theory: Turnip promised one of the secret docs to an offshore creditor as payment for one of his many debts, and he no longer has the hot item available to fence.

  132. 132.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    March 2015 – Retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus, a former CIA director, pleaded guilty to one count of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. The plea followed revelations that Petraeus shared some of the materials with his biographer and mistress.

    Petraeus was sentenced to two years of probation and a $100,000 fine.

    Ah, General Betrayus! Haven’t heard that name in a long while. I do agree with you that Trump will likely not get off as easily as Petraeus and I do think *knock on wood* that the courts will continue to rule against him, because his arguments are ridiculous

  135. 135.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    My law degree has … goddamn it, was it that long ago? … twenty years of dust on it, but I distinctly remember something that’s not written down in the law but is an essential thing to understand:

    Lawyers do not like surprises.

    As a prosecutor-turned novelist put it (paraphrasing): “Don’t lie to your lawyer. You can lie to your wife, lie to the IRS, lie to yourself, but do not lie to your lawyer, because if I rely on something you tell me and it turns out not to be true, that’ll compromise my ability to present your best possible case.”

    I could almost pity TFG’s legal team for the nightmare client they’ve got to deal with, except that all my pity and sympathy have already been spoken for by his victims.

  137. 137.

    J R in WV

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): ​

    That’s a great thread! Haven’t read through all of it, but I had no idea MAL was valued at around $750 million and instead should be valued closer to $75 million. That’s 10 times what it should be worth!

    Well, you have to remember Mal-a-Largo (sic ;~) ) is historic, was built by and for Marjorie Merriweather Post , wife of E F Hutton, and she was also owner of one of the major remaining big sailing ships, her yacht Sea Cloud, now a popular cruise attraction in the Med and the Caribbean. V Expensive! Sailors taking in sails, and setting sails, way up in the masts and yards. You may stay in the Owner’s Cabin, and if you have to ask, no, you probably can’t afford it.

    Ms Post founded General Foods, still a major producer of foods. Was independently wealthy and married wealthy husbands as well. A famous beauty, also too. Her estate in Washington DC is a famous art museum now. Mar-a-Lago probably should also be a museum, but rebuilding it to original specifications, removing TFG’s whore-house decor, and cleaning out the ketchup stains would probably cost more than it is worth.Maybe it IS only worth $75,000,000…?​
    ETA: No thread is Dead while I’m on the blog !!!!!​

  138. 138.

    JWR

    @Kristine:

    I really feel like I’ve grown as a person.

    Writing as one who’s almost always several threads behind the action, I second the nomination. ; )

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