Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

Everybody saw this coming.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

No one could have predicted…

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

You are here: Home / Elections / 2022 Elections / Monday Afternoon Open Thread: Way to Make Yourself Popular, Sen. Sinema!

Monday Afternoon Open Thread: Way to Make Yourself Popular, Sen. Sinema!

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Gosh, one wonders why she’s not more popular among her constituents!

… These numbers, from a new Arizona poll commissioned by the AARP, are pretty remarkable! Her unpopularity “crosses the aisle” like that of no politician I’ve ever seen. A solid 54 percent of Arizona Republicans don’t like her. And 51 percent of independents don’t like her (her best result!). As for Democrats? Arizonans of Sinema’s putative party simply do not like her, to the tune of 57 percent. (And that’s a distinct improvement from her 80 percent disapproval rating with Democrats in January!)

Name a demographic group, and Sinema is viewed unfavorably by a majority of them. Women? 55 percent unfavorable. Men? 53 percent unfavorable. White voters? 56 percent unfavorable. Hispanic voters? 54 percent unfavorable.

She’s not very popular with college graduates (53 percent unfavorable), but unfortunately she’s even less popular with people who haven’t graduated college (55 percent unfavorable).

Voters 50 and over? Her unpopularity with them is also 50 and over (54 percent, specifically). But young people also don’t like her (55 percent unpopularity)…

Barring an act of (the Trickster) God, Sinema’s seat is safe until 2024. But at least she can serve as a prod to get out the vote, elect two more Democratic senators, and make her (and Joe Manchin) redundant!

Keith Olbermann may be weirdly prescient…

She’s got the Chuckles Toad shtick down to a nicety, after all…

Reader Interactions

173Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    She is such an ass.  I hope Arizona primary voters retire her, overwhelmingly.

    And that in a few years, she won’t even come to mind as a crossword clue.

  2. 2.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    “rooted in our commonalities” – the commonality being how much you both suck in every conceivable way. How lovely. GFY.

    Since it’s an OT, I’ll direct y’all to a woman much more worth your time. Olena Zelenska gave an interview to 60 Minutes Australia. I appreciated how open she is about this role not being one she’d imagined nor wanted for herself, and how wonderfully she has fulfilled it nonetheless.

  3. 3.

    Citizen Alan

    I stand by my belief that, at heart, Sinema is still a Green. Her conduct is perfectly understandable if you assume she’s a Leftist who hates the Democrats more than the Republicans and who sees ultra-rightwing control of government as necessary predicate to the eventual revolution that brings about the Socialist Utopia.

  4. 4.

    cain

    I just wish someone would just make a new version of Van Halen’s “Panama” with “Sinema” with some clever lyrics.

  6. 6.

    Chris Johnson

    @Citizen Alan: So basically a tankie, actually working for Putin as much as Trump ever did, and with many commonalities with McConnell along those lines?

    Couldn’t disprove it based on her behavior…

  9. 9.

    Kropacetic

    Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) says she’s not only against abolishing the filibuster, she’s for strengthening it: “The best thing you can do for your child is to not give them everything they want… We should restore the 60-vote threshold for areas in which it has been eliminated.”

    I wasn’t aware that children voted. Surely she can’t be referring to all voters as children…

  10. 10.

    different-church-lady

    The weird thing about Todd is he shows up on a Boston public radio yack-show, and when he’s there he sounds like he’s just as exasperated by the Trump takeover as any of us. And then he just goes right back to enabling it.

  12. 12.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Manchin may be an asshole and too right wing for most of us, but he has institutional loyalty to the Democratic Party.  That is why I always thought he would play ball in the end.  Sinema, however, is beyond my ken.  I am pleased that she didn’t ultimately yank the IRA/mini-BBB, but I will never trust her.

  13. 13.

    different-church-lady

    OLBERMANN: When we dated, in 2010-11, Kyrsten was a legit progressive, far to my left.

    She was probably less a legit progressive than a progressive of expedience, just as she is now a contrarian of expedience, will soon be a Republican of expedience, and eventually a MAGA of expedience.

  14. 14.

    Ben Vernia

    She long ago wrote her “my party left me” speech, and will no doubt pull it out and give it if either A) the GOP wins control of the Senate in November; or B) the Democrats don’t pick up another seat (letting her and/or Manchin decide which party controls the Senate). The McConnell Center appearance is basically just keeping that option open. Oh, and she’s a turd.

  15. 15.

    Tony G

    I’ll bet a shiny nickel that Sinema will soon have a new gig as a Fox News “personality”.  She’ll make money and have some degree of fame, which is all that matters to her.   The real question is whether the Green Party at this point is actively toxic, or just useless.  I’m leaning toward the former.

  17. 17.

    C Stars

    Remember how Dan Savage made up a new meaning for the word “Santorum”? Strikes me that we could definitely do that for Sinema. The meaning wouldn’t even have to be obscene, just represent something obscenely annoying.

  18. 18.

    different-church-lady

    @Tony G: ​
      The Trump experience has most certainly decimated their seductive powers. “Both parties are the same” was the fucking around; Dobbs was the finding out.

  19. 19.

    ETtheLibrarian

    She is so stunning unaware about herself that she doesn’t seem to get how stupid she is and how she is being used. She also doesn’t seem to understand she isn’t going to get re-elected and is likely not going to have any higher office. She must have no friends/family who she listens to/respects who can get through to her.

  22. 22.

    FelonyGovt

    Since OT: I enjoyed this OpEd in today’s LA Times explaining why a lot of us old folks may upset the conventional wisdom about seniors voting R. Certainly applies to me and my old biddy friends!

  24. 24.

    Chris Johnson

    @ETtheLibrarian: That or she is fully aware and is just another Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, Caleb Maupin etc etc etc: ‘left’ but not really, just another Russia Today troll. Sinema would be one in deep cover.

    Well, not as deep anymore.

  25. 25.

    AnthroBabe

    Don’t think Sinema cares about re-election or that she is being used by Republicans – she is angling for a job (punditry? finance?) after her “hard work” in the Senate being a “bipartisan” something or other with no principles, just interested in process, not people.

    As someone who voted for her, she makes me so angry.

  27. 27.

    lowtechcyclist

    As long as she and Manchin are still the 49th and 50th votes for confirming Biden’s administration and especially judicial appointments, she’s not totally useless.

    But she’s still pretty damn close.

  29. 29.

    Citizen Alan

    @cain: Well, no, since the Leftist New World will never come about. That’s why I hate Leftists so much right now. The German Communists all thought “After Hitler, us!” and then died in concentration camps. And now, the Sanders-Sarandon-Rose Twitter crowd is repeating the exact same thinking without the slightest concern that their “revolution” is far more likely to lead to a herrenvolk fascist dictatorship than for the US to become Sweden (even as Sweden is apparently trying to not be Sweden anymore!).

  30. 30.

    eclare

    @FelonyGovt:   Great article, thanks!  I remember seeing an older White guy interviewed on a local TV station at some rally (BLM?), and the interviewer asked some leading questions:  what is happening?  Aren’t you scared?  What do you think we should do?

    Guy was primed to go off.  Began a ten minute tirade about how this all started with our abhorrent stealing of Native Americans’ land and our treatment of them and segues into our treatment of Black Americans, systemic racism, injust racial system, etc.

    Reporter had a look on his face:  I asked an older White guy!  What is happening?

  31. 31.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I wonder if Sinema remembers cares about the moment in 2009 Mitch McConnell said his number one goal was to make Barack Obama a one-term president, or the one a few years later when he said the best moment of his life was telling Obama that he wouldn’t fill Scalia’s USSC seat.

    (I don’t really wonder)

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    Oh, Sinema!

    They were popular!

    Please!

    It’s all about popular

    It’s not about Aptitude

    It’s the way you’re Viewed

    So it’s very shrewd to Be

    Very very Popular

    Like me!

    She can’t even claim that she is doing what her constituents want. An odd game she is playing.

  34. 34.

    West of the Rockies

    People like Synema (enema) never look in the mirror and say, “Hey, is it possible that the problem is actually me?”

  35. 35.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Brachiator:

    She can’t even claim that she is doing what her constituents want. An odd game she is playing.

    I don’t think she cares. After all, she compared voters to children, saying it’s best when they don’t always get what they want. You don’t get more elitist than that!

  36. 36.

    ian

    When we dated, in 2010-11, Kyrsten was a legit progressive, far to my left.

    Damn Keith.  Alright Jackals, which is a worse couple, Olberman and Sinema or Guilfoyle and Newsom?

  38. 38.

    The Moar You Know

    The simplest explanation is the best:  she’s in it for the money and that’s it.  Where ever it may come from.  I get that, I was poor once too.  Just too bad that with politics being the path you gotta fuck over a bunch of people to get what you want, but hell, I probably would have done that too.  Glad I didn’t have to.

  39. 39.

    scav

    Sinema might very well look into a mirror and Liz Truss stares back.  Clueless amoral inept windsocks, currently priding themselves on personal unpopularity while cratering  the institutions around them.

  40. 40.

    different-church-lady

    Candidate, Twitter-Burn Hall of Fame:

    OLBERMANN: I don’t think you have to be a body language expert, nor to have dated her a dozen years ago, to recognize that really unhappy things are going on inside of Senator Sinema.

    Big Structural Darren Bailey
    @PersonalBeavis

    I guess this isn’t the first time there have been unhappy things going on inside of her

  42. 42.

    eclare

    @ian:   I don’t watch Olbermann’s shows now, but he and Dan Patrick were great on Sportscenter.

    That is a tough contest between the couples…

  48. 48.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    And to continue a topic from last night on another thread WRT UK politics, I was doing some reading on Wiki about Jeremy Corbyn, the former Labor Leader, and my god it’s bad:

    NATO

    Corbyn favours the United Kingdom leaving NATO, and for NATO to be disbanded. In May 2012, Corbyn authored a piece in the Morning Star titled “High time for an end to NATO” where he described the organisation as an “instrument of cold war manipulation”, saying that “The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1990, with the ending of the Warsaw Pact mutual defence strategy, was the obvious time for NATO to have been disbanded.” and also said a 2014 speech that the organisation was an “engine for the delivery of oil to the oil companies” and called for it to “give up, go home and go away”.

    For these comments and a refusal to answer whether he would defend a NATO ally in the case of attack he was criticised by Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the former Prime Minister of Denmark and NATO Secretary General, who said Corbyn’s opinions were “tempting President Putin to aggression” and made comparisons between his views and those of the American president Donald Trump. He was also criticised by George Robertson, former Labour Party defence secretary, who said “It beggars belief that the leader of the party most responsible for the collective security pact of NATO should be so reckless as to undermine it by refusing to say he would come to the aid of an ally”.

    He has since acknowledged that the British public do not agree with his beliefs that the UK should leave NATO, and instead intends to push for the organisation to “restrict its role”. He believes there should be a debate about the extent of NATO’s powers including its “democratic accountability” and why it has taken on a global role. In April 2014, Corbyn wrote an article for the Morning Star attributing the crisis in Ukraine to NATO. He said the “root of the crisis” lay in “the US drive to expand eastwards” and described Russia’s actions as “not unprovoked”. He has said it “probably was” a mistake to allow former Warsaw Pact countries to join NATO as it has increased tensions with Russia and made the “world infinitely more dangerous”. Subsequently, he criticized the British government and other Western countries for supplying arms to Ukraine.

    That aged like milk, didn’t it? I remember Tony Jay defending Corbyn generally. Has he ever commented on Corbyn’s stances on NATO and recently the 2022 Russo-Ukraine War? Imagine if Corbyn had been PM when this war began, he’d probably be regurgitating Putinist propaganda as the Head of Government of a NATO member nation!

  49. 49.

    Tazj

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was thinking the same thing. Yes, when I think of fairness and bipartisanship I immediately think of Mitch McConnell and how he admitted he wanted to do whatever it took to make Obama unsuccessful no matter who suffered in the country.

    What values does she share with McConnell?The Senator who spoke out against Trump in a speech but voted against impeachment. The same one who rushed the confirmation of a Supreme Court Justice that took away a fundamental right ?

    I know everyone here knows all this but what a garbage performance. I’m guess I’m grateful she didn’t mess up the IRA again but what an embarrassment.

  52. 52.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Nelle:

    She’s underwater with Republicans too. That won’t save her reelection chances. They’ll just vote for a “real” Republican over her

  54. 54.

    Geminid

    @Nelle: That’s possible, but the Arizona Republican party is pretty radical. I don’t think Sinema would find it hospitable.

    On the other hand, the speech is a good audition. Industry associations and trade groups love to hear stuff like that at their conventions, and they pay well.

  55. 55.

    JustRuss

    @Geo Wilcox: I bet Randy Rainbow could do this easily.

    Love Randy, but he just doesn’t have the pipes for it.  David Lee Roth, however, is rested and available. Maybe they could collaborate?

  56. 56.

    Nelle

    @Geminid: She may not run again under any circumstances.  But say there is a 50-50 split again in the Senate.  She goes R and gets a lot of attention and a lot of money in the future.  Maybe under the table at the moment of a switch.  Am I paranoid?  You bet.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Nelle: nothing she’d do would surprise me, but why would she wait? I think it’s generally acknowledged that McConnell has repeatedly lobbied hard to get Manchin to switch, in ’17-18 to neutralize McCain and again in ’21. I doubt he hasn’t had similar conversations with Sinema.

  61. 61.

    Ruckus

    @Kropacetic:

    Surely is doing way, way too much work here.

    The senator is a worse than useless twit who thinks the only way to betterment is to make everything so bad that people will like her bullshit.

    And yes I got your usage…..

  65. 65.

    p.a.

    Her staff must love her.  Keep those resumés updated kids!  She doesn’t seem the type to coattail you to her next gig at Fox, some fraud thinktank, or Third-Way wankfest.

  66. 66.

    trollhattan

    Nothing quite like the coveted McConnell bump to rein in the Democratic votes. Way to go, you teenage rebel, you.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) says she’s not only against abolishing the filibuster, she’s for strengthening it: “The best thing you can do for your child is to not give them everything they want…

    Fuck her. She’s not a parent. AFAICT, she’s never been a parent. Where the fuck does she come off, pontificating about “the best thing you can do for your child….”? Fuck her twenty ways from Sunday. JFC, I hate that woman so much.

  70. 70.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @eclare:  Never let go of a good grunge.

    I thought Nirvana was overrated and overplayed, but I’ve come around on Pearl Jam

    @Ruckus: with all the old-timey names making comebacks, you don’t see a lot of little Shirleys running around. I’m surprised Gwynneth Paltrow or somebody hasn’t name a kid Shirley

  72. 72.

    RaflW

    Since this is an open thread:

    Anders Åslund @anders_aslund
    Taking the last night flight from Helsinki to Stockholm. It is packed, overwhelmingly with tall, very quiet, young Russian men, all too obviously escaping Putin’s mobilization. They move with great determination. I am probably the only Swede on this plane.

    Putin’s brain drain (and given what it must be costing to get out despite ‘controls’, probably cash-drain) is certainly moving right along.

  74. 74.

    Shalimar

    Wow.  I thought Sinema was a bit out there before, but there aren’t many people who actually like Keith Olbermann.  Dating him explains some of the underlying insanity.

  76. 76.

    Bobby Thomson

    I can’t believe her popularity is that high.  I can’t believe it’s that high among her family members.  She’s a horrible person with a full blown narcissistic disorder.

  79. 79.

    Ruckus

    @Tony G:

    “The real question is whether the Green Party at this point is actively toxic, or just useless.  I’m leaning toward the former.”

    The green party really has nothing to offer that anyone but a member of the green party wants, and they seem willing to burn it all down in an attempt to get everything they want, which of course never works out the way intended.

    Most people are somewhere in the squishish middle of the road, wanting better or worse, depending on the shape of current politics. Most of the squishish middle wants change because the very middle is almost always not good for a lot of people. It’s the change they want that is different. The righter side thinks that the world would be better with more control because so many people can barely figure out how to open a door. The lefter side wants there to be some control because otherwise it’s chaos every day but not so much to sniffle basic freedoms. The far left wants 1000% freedom and is willing to see people hurt to get there, the far right wants 1000% control so that they don’t have to make any decisions, as long as their money buys them what they desire. Which is open hate, racism, slavery, and assorted other crap. That squishy middle is a far bigger block than the other two but the right side of the middle is willing to listen to the middle left, right up to the point that they get less than what they want. Which is where we are currently. And we are there because the right side, both squishy right and far right control the media.

  80. 80.

    different-church-lady

    Open Thread: every time I log on to my online banking (Santander) I get a big fat splash screen reminder that Rafael Nadal is making more money off my savings than I am.

  82. 82.

    brendancalling

    @cain:

    Jump back, what’s that sound?
    Here she comes, full blast and top down
    Hot shit, burnin’ down the Democrats
    Model citizen, zero discipline
    Don’t you know she’s coming home with Mitch
    You’ll lose her in the turn
    I’ll get her…

    Sinema, Sinema

    Sinema, Sinema

    It’s a start!

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    @Nelle: You’re not being paranoid. I could see Sinema doing that, maybe caucusing with Republicans as an Independent. She might even run for her Senate seat in 2024 as an Independent. I don’t think she’d win, but she might rather go down fighting in a general election than lose in a Democratic primary.

  84. 84.

    ColoradoGuy

    Huh. So Corbin was basically a Tankie. No wonder the Labour Party got so far underwater. Nobody likes a Tankie except other Tankies.

    What a terrible choice for the people of the UK; the Tories who want to burn everything down and sell off the ruins, or a Labour leader who is stuck in the radical Sixties, arguing for the dubious charms of the North Vietnamese.

  89. 89.

    CaseyL

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think that was Bill Maher.  Coulter was a reactionary, bigoted chucklefuck from the instant she hit the national scene, so I doubt she would ever have appealed to Olbermann in any of his configurations.

  90. 90.

    El Muneco

    @Geminid: IIRC, Arizona has a law against that, but there might be an end run around it if you don’t run in the primary in the first place.

  93. 93.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Later in last night’s overnight thread, commenter Aussie Sheila had this to say about Italy:

    Exactly. The dreadful past relived as farce. Zombie Thatcherism. In the US the past is relived as an imaginary FDR ism domestically, matched with Reaganism internationally. All of it is dreamworks nonesense.

    The success of the international right wing needs to be squarely faced. Fascism represents the weakness of the left as much as the strength of the right. In the absence of democratic organisation and mobilisation of the working class, we are looking at democratic erosion everywhere. The post ww2 working class has been destroyed and restructured over two generations.

    So called ‘liberal’ institutions need to get a clue and fast.

    Italy has been a harbinger in the past, and may well point to our future. It is a disgrace and terrible that the birthplace of European fascism is once more so politically feeble that it arises again. I am not optimistic about the response of our new oligarchic overlords to this at all. I just pray and hope that an old and centrist US president can hang on for the next six years, while the rest of the social democratic world gets its shit together.

    And this re: New Labor/Blairism:

    ‘Blairism’ is arguably the author of Brexit and the collapse of significant working class support for social democracy (Labour Party) policies. Just like Clintonism in the US.

    While I am sick of the term, for want of a better word, ‘neo liberalism’ has managed to imperil democracy on three continents.

    Time to reimagine a more vigorous and vital left, unafraid of both social and economic radicalism. The alternative is a slide into increasing authoritarianism and war.

    I am second to none in my furious hatred of Putinism and all it represents, but it’s relative success in various polities in relation to propaganda and disinformation owes a great deal to the insecurity and political rootlessness of large swathes of the western working class.

    It is true that the real social base of much of trumpism ( and it’s imitations elsewhere) is the well off lumpen bourgeoisie, but while ever the new and reshaped by neo liberalism working class remains unorganised and neglected by soi disant liberals, democracy is in danger.

    It remains to be seen whether social democratic parties are able to rise to the occasion or whether they are focussed on fighting yesterdays wars by singing God Save the King at Party conferences, or sending senior leaders like Pelosi to every goddamned hot spot over the world, like Taiwan. The old Cold War leadership in the Dem party needs to go, now. And Starmer needs to put on his big boy pants and take the fight to those who impose zero hours contracts and insist that the state subsidise zero living wages.

    And this comment about the idea that social democracy is only possible in homogeneous countries:

    If you think either Australia or Canada are ethnically homogeneous, you need to get out more. In Australia over 40% of households have at least one member born overseas. Both countries make the US look like ‘Leave it to Beaver’ country. The claim that social democracy is only possible in ‘ethnically homogeneous’ polities, is an objectively fascist position. It’s garbage.

    What do you all think of their takes? I’m not sure I agree with their implicit and explicit criticism of Dems or that Biden is “old and centrist”.

    Personally, based on my readings, New Labor/Blairism and the Third Way/Democratic Leadership Council were necessary to make Labour/Dems electable again in the wake of Reaganism/Thatcherism, like them or not; at least with a Dem in the WH

  94. 94.

    Kropacetic

    @raven: Think of people arguing “there’s no such thing as bisexuality, they won’t admit they’re gay.” Or the way that bisexual people are far less visible in media because gay and lesbian individuals or couples that conform to comfortable binary roles have far more media presence.

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Keith P.:

    @CaseyL:

    Could be. I try never to think of Bill Maher, so that’s quite possible. I guess KO and AC were both at Cornell or something — I may be doing some conflation there. Hell with ‘em all.

  97. 97.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @Citizen Alan:
     
    Let’s pause for a moment and reflect on how well “Nach Hitler, uns!” worked for Ernst Thälmann .

    Or, indeed, for everyone else, German or not, who didn’t live to see the end of the Thousand Year Reich.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @CaseyL:

    Coulter was a reactionary, bigoted chucklefuck from the instant she hit the national scene, so I doubt she would ever have appealed to Olbermann in any of his configurations.

    So was Ingraham. The Mediaite piece I linked to above reminded me that in the 90s she had a show on MSNBC. How that network has changed, thanks largely to Olbermann. Other alumni as I recall are a pre-Fox Roger Ailes, the hate-wraith Mary Matalin, Dennis Miller (haven’t heard that name in a while), and Alan Keyes– I believe his show was called “Making Sense”, which suggests somebody in those pre-leftward-shift days had a sense of irony.

  99. 99.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Well, not really, if you think, as Tony Jay does, that Corbyn was deliberately sabotaged by Blairites in the party

    I don’t know how true that is, but that’s what he’s claimed

  104. 104.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Some men settle for far less because they really have an overinflated concept of themselves and most women can spot that from miles away and really, really want to stay miles away. Those men settle for the leftovers and they usually get exactly what they deserve.

  108. 108.

    Geminid

    @El Muneco: A lot of states have “sore loser” laws that bar primary losers from the general election ballot. If one runs as an Independent from the git-go the only requirement for getting on the ballot is meeting the petition signature requirement.

    I don’t think Sinema has developed much of a loyal following in her state, and that’s why I think she’d lose. It might be a good career move though. She would get a last blast of publicity, and it would set up the evergreen excuse “I didn’t (exactly) leave my party. but the party left me.”

  110. 110.

    sab

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Remember Fionna Hill the Brit who moved here and joined our State Department? She was born in Durham County, England. So was Tony Blair. Her dad was a coal miner. His dad taught at Durham University.

    She married some b!right guy from one of the Dakotas.

    Bill Clinton introduced them thinking they would have something in common both being from Durham. Tony Blair was shocked by her working class accent.

    That shock is who Tony Blair was. Labor PM shocked by a successful woman’s working class accent.

  111. 111.

    Captain C

    @SiubhanDuinne: Bill Maher definitely did.  I’m not going to speculate on this because it will go to some very dark Rule 34 and 36 places once we go beyond the ‘both parties were horny and available to each other’ answer.

    Ann Coulter is also apparently a Deadhead.  I don’t understand this, given that she’s devoted her life to loudly pushing the exact opposite of that set of philosophies.

  116. 116.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Well nobody actually said that social democracy is only possible in ethnically homogeneous places, so I’m not quite sure why everybody decided to go after that straw man.
    As for whether globalism causes isolationism: anything can invite backlash, especially when implemented poorly, but I think “blairism caused brexit” has a couple problems. One, Corbyn et al. have long been Euroskeptics and isolationists (as is common among labor socialists). It’s whistling past the graveyard to blame Labourites you don’t like for other Labourites continuing to hold long-held positions. Two, it’s an analysis much like “only Democrats have agency”–the Tories running the country, and the Tory voters who put them in power, are real humans who actually did the things we’re mad about.

    And can’t one spare a little culpability for the opposition leaders who failed to stop them, instead of somebody from ten years earlier who one didn’t like?​

  117. 117.

    Captain C

    @Bobby Thomson:

    a Sinema is a movie theater that advertises first run blockbusters but actually just shows 2 girls 1 cup on a loop

    This may be the winner.

    Also, by entering, you agree to a release which allows them to film your reaction for release to YouTube.

  120. 120.

    sab

    @Omnes Omnibus: She means well, but she is into parliamentary politics. She doesn’t know how constricted ours is.

    I still don’t hate our constricted politics. I don’t want government policy changing and flapping in the wind with every election. But I would like it if a huge majority in one direction could steer the government in that direction.

  124. 124.

    Baud

    @sab:

    One aspect of parliamentary systems is that they have independent bureaucracies that run the day to day business of government.  The US bureaucracy is really more closely tied to the outcome of elections.  It’s one of the hurdles to switching.

  125. 125.

    cain

    @evodevo:

    I can see the attraction – she’s very glitzy, dresses smartly – and can communicate well. I mean, she must have some kind of power because she got elected.

  126. 126.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Matt McIrvin:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    See, I thought she was largely wrong about US politics. It’s just the Italy being a harbinger comments that concerned me the most.

    At the same time however, I don’t think she’s wrong when she says that neoliberalism has largely hollowed out the working classes allowing for Trump and other far-right figures’ rises. Dems contributed to this in the 90s and beyond

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Well nobody actually said that social democracy is only possible in ethnically homogeneous places, so I’m not quite sure why everybody decided to go after that straw man.

    I believe has Scrodinger’s Cat has, for example

    Oh, and just to be clear, I never agreed with Tony Jay or Aussie Sheila’s defenses of Corbyn

  129. 129.

    sab

    @Baud: Yikes and also a good point

    ETA I still like Shiela Aussie. She knows her sysetem of government.

    I think it is crucial in days ahead that we understand each others’. Just to know their perspective.

  131. 131.

    trollhattan

    Someone light the Tony Jay lamp.

    September 26, 2022 at 5:21 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard

    A new Times of London/YouGov poll finds Labour has surged to “its largest poll lead over the Conservatives in more than two decades, with voters turning against Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax-cutting budget.”

    The poll puts Labour 17 points clear of the Tories — “a level of support not seen since Tony Blair won his landslide victory in 2001.”

    NOW, you’re stirring from your coma?

  133. 133.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    a thirst that, I suspect, will never be slaked

    Mike Pompeo @mikepompeo

    Congratulations to @GiorgiaMeloni. Italy deserves and needs strong conservative leadership. Buona Fortuna!

  135. 135.

    Brachiator

    Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) says she’s not only against abolishing the filibuster, she’s for strengthening it: “The best thing you can do for your child is to not give them everything they want… We should restore the 60-vote threshold for areas in which it has been eliminated.”

    I had to take myself back to mental high school and review the history of the filibuster. From a Brennan Center overview.

    Some Americans mistakenly believe the filibuster originated with the 1789 Constitution and was part of the framers’ plan for how the Senate should function.   It plainly was not. The Constitution leaves it up to each house of Congress to set its own rules. Indeed, the framers considered and rejected the idea of requiring supermajorities for legislation.

    As Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 22, “To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser.” They knew such built-in obstruction could doom a republic.

    Tellingly, the filibuster did not become a rule or practice of the Senate until 129 years after the Constitution was ratified. Moreover, not only is the Constitution silent on the matter, but it prescribes supermajority votes only for very specific subjects, such as treaties, making clear that a simple majority is the expectation for other circumstances, including legislation. This indicates that supermajorities, as required by the filibuster, are otherwise disfavored.

    In the years immediately following ratification of the Constitution, the Senate functioned under majoritarian rule. Before 1806, the Senate followed a rule allowing debate to be brought to a close by a simple majority of the body. Apparently by mistake, the Senate eliminated the rule shortly after but nonetheless did not experience a filibuster for 30 years, indicating that it was not a practice of the early Senate.

    It was not until the 1850s that the term filibuster was employed in reference to stem-winding speeches by senators intending to push back the timing of a vote, either because they sought to kill a bill or gain other leverage. But even then the filibuster was rarely used, as it required senators to physically stay on the Senate floor and continue their speechmaking, a tactic difficult to sustain for any great length of time.

    So, Sinema just lies when the claims that the filibuster is part of some constitutional framework to make the Senate a more sober and contemplative body than the House.

    And in modern times, when did the filibuster pop up more often? Oh, yeah, to deliberately keep that scary man Obama from doing presidential stuff.

    During the Obama administration, Senate Republicans took obstruction to a new level, using the filibuster more than ever in history. But the use of the tactic had been climbing even before Obama became president, prompting recent presidents of both parties to use executive orders and other administrative tools to circumvent Congress. The Senate is already minoritarian because of the overrepresentation of small and rural states in the body. For example, California, with 39 million people, gets two senators in Washington, the same as Wyoming, Vermont, and Alaska, each of which is home to fewer than a million people.

    Kill the goddam filibuster.

    ETA. I do enjoy the fact that “filibuster” is from the Dutch, talking about pirates as freebooters.

  138. 138.

    sab

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Mark my words. You are going to end up a right wing nut job.

    Breaks my heart, but you are launched in that direction

    ETA You need to find out a way to be more critical of the websites you believe. Not to be a nutjob in our direction. But to be more critical of who you believe. I do not have a clue how you can do this. I just worry about the crazy sites you read.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @Baud: The French have had a hybrid system since the Fifth Republic was established around 1960. Parliament still passes laws and budgets, but the President has authority over the executive branch.

  143. 143.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @sab:

    How’s that? Everything I’ve discussed in this thread came from BJ. All of it stems from a wariness of the right wing

  144. 144.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I can certainly understand how one could get that impression of the US, since I think the US political center has actually shifted dramatically just in the past decade and it’s not obvious to all what happened.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I know Ms. Cat has talked about the attitude of the Nordic nations towards immigrants and how there is a conservative backlash since immigrants have become more numerous. She’s not the only one, and I don’t think she stated the matter in the absolute terms you did.

    People got into this question on a thread yesterday afternoon. I pushed back on someone kind of like I pushed back on you, but I did point out that the Norwegian Parliament’s Speaker was born on Tehran.

  146. 146.

    catclub

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): ​

    Imagine if Corbyn had been PM when this war began, he’d probably be regurgitating Putinist propaganda as the Head of Government of a NATO member nation

    !Flobalob Boris Johnson was PM and probably more likely to align with Putin and Russian oligarchs and their money than Corbyn. But he read the room and went all in for Ukraine. Given that, Corbyn could do the same if he were PM in Feb 2022.​​

  147. 147.

    different-church-lady

    God help me…

    After resisting for years I finally registered for commenting at LGM.

    My productivity and sanity lie in a grave of my own making.

  148. 148.

    Citizen Alan

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    At the same time however, I don’t think she’s wrong when she says that neoliberalism has largely hollowed out the working classes allowing for Trump and other far-right figures’ rises.

    I am so tired of whinging about the evils of neoliberalism. Clinton and those awful neoliberals are what saved liberalism from permanent irrelevance after the Democratic Party managed to lose 5 out of 6 Presidential elections in a row, two of them by the first and second biggest landslides in US electoral history. People want to whine about Bill Clinton? Just try to imagine where we’d be today if GHWB had been reelected in 1992 and gotten to replace Harry Blackmun instead of Clinton and had another 4 years to put Republican judges on the lower courts! Of course, maybe I might be more open to criticisms of neoliberalism if the Old School liberals could ever prove that they could win an election that was D+10 or better.

  149. 149.

    Calouste

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Tony Jay is a Disciple of the Cult of Saint Jeremy, Order of the Green Lantern. He might be slightly biased in his assessment of Corbyn.

    More neutral observers might point out that it was not surprising that someone with no significant track record of working with others (a 30-year backbencher from a safe constituency who voted against his own party numerous times), turned out to be not particularly good at working with others.

  150. 150.

    Brachiator

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    At the same time however, I don’t think she’s wrong when she says that neoliberalism has largely hollowed out the working classes allowing for Trump and other far-right figures’ rises. Dems contributed to this in the 90s and beyond.

    This is wrong-headed on so many levels. In Europe and the US, the rise of the far right can be linked more to anti-immigration sentiment than to the supposed plight of the working class.

    And despite the easily verified fact that the typical Trump supporter is doing well financially, pundits and some in the general public keep coming back to the fallacy of economic anxiety to explain the rise of Trump and the far right.

    And it is just sad to see how often “working class” really means “a narrow band of angry white people.”

    Well nobody actually said that social democracy is only possible in ethnically homogeneous places, so I’m not quite sure why everybody decided to go after that straw man.

    Again, I want to emphasize that few people actually believe anything like this and I also do not understand why some people want to ascribe this view to S Cat or others here.

    One obvious fact. In the past, especially, religious and political differences were huge factors that had to be overcome before stable democracies could be established.

  156. 156.

    Geminid

    @catclub: My take on Corbin, from across the Atlantic and without much study, is that he had a sound program domestically but that he was too left on foreign policy.

    What really got Corbyn in trouble and more or less run out of the Labour Party was the Israeli-Arab conflict and his response to it. That happens to be a wedge issue with the Democratic Party as well, but not as destructive as it was with the Labour Party.

  157. 157.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​
     

    I thought Nirvana was overrated and overplayed, but I’ve come around on Pearl Jam

    I’m the other way around. Though it isn’t that I think Pearl Jam is overrated, I can’t get close to an opinion on that because Eddie Vedder’s voice just grates on me.

    Lord knows the radio stations I listen to play enough Pearl Jam that if I could get past that, it would have happened years ago, but it hasn’t.

  162. 162.

    sab

    Went to get my hair cut today. My hairdresser is amazingly cool. A bit older than me.  Bigshot  in culture events around town.

    Meanwhile we have real lives. I mentinoed that I had had a gay boyfriend fifty years ago in high school. Liked the guy a lot but I was going out of state to college and only wanted a freind not a boyfriend.

    I knew he had an actual boyfried, who I liked a lot. His boyfriend went to a different high school.

    Turns out my hairdresser who went to a different high school knew my gay  high school boyfriend’s boyfriend. Small world. We both really liked him. Nobody kept touch. Tiny world out there.

  164. 164.

    Anyway

    Blair can never be forgiven for his part in enabling the Iraq invasion and sucking up to Bush/Cheney et al.

  165. 165.

    Anyway

    I spent 4 weeks in late Sept-early October of 2016 in Italy – some work, some play. The locals – coworkers, taxi-drivers, cafe/hotel clerks – would invariably ask about the upcoming November elections and whether I thought Trump had a shot. Most of them would end up alluding to Berlusconi and say “we thought he couldn’t win and look what happened– you guys watch out!” .

    Thinking about those days brings back my PTSD.

    Hope the Fascist lady PM is not  a bellwether…

  167. 167.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Omnes Omnibus: The only point she made that I thought was valid was that basically white, working class, mainly rural discontent and decline left an opening for Trumpism.

  168. 168.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Brachiator:

    And despite the easily verified fact that the typical Trump supporter is doing well financially, pundits and some in the general public keep coming back to the fallacy of economic anxiety to explain the rise of Trump and the far right.

    What analyses found was that the average Trump voter were doing well financially, but living in communities in long term decline. I would call it less economic and more cultural anxiety, but I don’t think economics can be completely ruled out. Rural America has been losing  population and economic power for decades, and that IS where Trumpism is the strongest.

  169. 169.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Citizen Alan:

    I am so tired of whinging about the evils of neoliberalism. Clinton and those awful neoliberals are what saved liberalism from permanent irrelevance after the Democratic Party managed to lose 5 out of 6 Presidential elections in a row, two of them by the first and second biggest landslides in US electoral history. People want to whine about Bill Clinton? Just try to imagine where we’d be today if GHWB had been reelected in 1992(etc.)

    Clinton was fine in 1992 and for his first two years as President. But after the disastrous 1994 midterm, he basically capitulated, told us the era of big government was over, hired that slimeball Dick Morris, etc.

    And that propelled us into the neolib era of seeming unwillingness to find any left-of-center ground to take a stand on.  There was never any worker- or consumer-friendly issue in the mid-1990s that they didn’t feel had to be apologized for and watered down.

    The other thing that got under my skin about the neolibs was their near-constant desire for another “Sister Souljah moment.”  Back in 1992, we actually needed one, Clinton provided it, and it was sufficient.  But somehow it was necessary in their eyes to do it over and over again.  They were always more concerned with pumping one more bullet into the dead carcass of the liberal movement than willing to take aim at the conservatives who wanted to free rich people from the burden of taxation.

    So fuck the neolibs.

  172. 172.

    Ken_L

    I love the way she color-coordinated her outfit with Mitch’s suit and the background. Very stylish. These things are important to build bridges.

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