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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

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We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

The willow is too close to the house.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

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Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

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You are here: Home / Jan 6: Hearings / Jan 6 Hearing – Day 9 at 1 pm (LIVE)

Jan 6 Hearing – Day 9 at 1 pm (LIVE)

by WaterGirl|  October 13, 202212:30 pm| 378 Comments

This post is in: Jan 6: Hearings, Open Threads

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NEWWWW — Jan 6 hearing will highlight new ⁦@SecretService⁩ surveillance video and records showing Trump knew about violence Jan 6, sought to stoke it – w ⁦@JaxAlemany⁩ https://t.co/l2NeBvnkqb

— Carol Leonnig (@CarolLeonnig) October 12, 2022

A Few Facts

– Committee Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., told CNN that “unless something else develops,” Thursday’s hearing will be the committee’s last before it issues a complete report on its investigation.

– While lawmakers have not revealed any specifics ahead of Thursday’s hearing, committee member Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., told CNN it will “be potentially more sweeping than some of the other hearings.”

– The committee must shut down within a month after issuing a final report, per its rules – but lawmakers could issue some smaller reports before then, perhaps even before the November elections.

And a bit of gossip to chat about while we wait – the DOJ apparently believes that Trump still has more classified records.

Narrator:  Who doesn’t believe that?

Still, it’s nice to hear a leak that the DOJ believes that also.

"The Trump legal team asserts… in June, hey there's no more classified records here we've done a search. It took the FBI 8 hours in one location to find 100 more pieces of classified documentation. So, where did they not search?" – @CarolLeonnig w/ @NicolleDWallace pic.twitter.com/Tj8qF9vTUe

— Deadline White House (@DeadlineWH) October 7, 2022

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

378Comments

  1. 1.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 13, 2022 at 12:34 pm

    Thank you for putting up this thread, WG. I’m looking forward to this afternoon’s revelations — which, if history is any guide, will be shocking but not at all surprising.

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    Agreed; thank you for the thread.

    Must see TV.

  3. 3.

    Old School

    October 13, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    A Trump employee has told the FBI about being directed by the former President to move boxes out of a basement storage room to his residence at Mar-a-Lago after Donald Trump’s legal team received a subpoena for any classified documents at the Florida estate, according to a source familiar with the witness’ description.
    The FBI also has surveillance footage showing a staffer moving boxes out of the storage room, the source told CNN.

  4. 4.

    NeenerNeener

    October 13, 2022 at 12:38 pm

    Where haven’t they searched? IVANA’S GRAVE.

  5. 5.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2022 at 12:38 pm

    I hope I snagged the coveted twelfth spot!

    That said: Lock Him Up!

  6. 6.

    piratedan

    October 13, 2022 at 12:42 pm

    …. and in conclusion, this committee has authorized the US Marshall’s service to arrest the following Members of Congress for their seditious actions on the days leading up to and including January 6th and remanded them to the attention of the Department of Justice for indictments.

     

    and then I woke up….. :-)

  7. 7.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2022 at 12:43 pm

    @Old School:

    Nathan Thurm wishes he could be as brazen as That Fucking Guy and his “team.”

  8. 8.

    bbleh

    October 13, 2022 at 12:43 pm

    Wait, what?  Trump knew about the violence?  Not just while it was happening but ahead of time?  OMG who ever would have thought?!?

    Other than perhaps a few media tools whose paychecks depend on them being carefully blinkered, I don’t think 1 person in 20 didn’t know that.  The difference is, most people think it’s bad, and his cultists think it’s good.

  9. 9.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2022 at 12:44 pm

    @piratedan:

    and then I woke up….. :-)

     

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

  10. 10.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 12:46 pm

    I hope everyone joins me for the debate tomorrow night between Rev. Warnock and Herschel Walker.

    I think it’s must-see, but it would be awesome to see it with company.

  11. 11.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 12:49 pm

    @SFAW: I split up your NOOOO because without a space or a break of some kind, that breaks the margins on phones.

  12. 12.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 13, 2022 at 12:50 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I would love to, but will probably have to watch it later. My landlord/friend/former colleague is flying in from Portugal tomorrow evening, and will likely arrive here at the house right at 7:00. So I may be catching up with him at that time.

  13. 13.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2022 at 12:52 pm

    @WaterGirl: ​
     
    Thanks!
    Reason #437 why I love you (so to speak).

  14. 14.

    John S.

    October 13, 2022 at 12:52 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    It’s almost incomprehensible that Warnock even has to share a stage with Walker, but this is the reality of this particular timeline.

  15. 15.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 12:54 pm

    @NeenerNeener: That was a plot point (contraband in a grave) in a season of Shameless! Was pretty funny, I thought.

  16. 16.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 12:55 pm

    @Old School: A Trump employee has told the FBI about being directed by the former President to move boxes out of a basement storage room to his residence at Mar-a-Lago after Donald Trump’s legal team received a subpoena for any classified documents at the Florida estate, according to a source familiar with the witness’ description.

    Oof. That’s going to make it tough to claim that “yeah, sure he took documents, but it was all an accident and he didn’t really intend to retain anything classified, etc.” But Trump hires the best, most competent lawyers, so I’m sure this won’t be a big problem…

  17. 17.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 12:55 pm

    @bbleh: He was told by secret service that a bunch of people were being turned away from his speech cause they had weapons. He wanted them in, as they were not there to harm him…

  18. 18.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 12:56 pm

    @John S.: I know, it’s absurd.  Warnock may as well be debating my little Henry.  Yet Walker may win.  I am not a fan of this timeline.

  19. 19.

    Dangerman

    October 13, 2022 at 12:56 pm

    @WaterGirl: Will there be an over/udder on the number of cow fucking jokes?

  20. 20.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 12:57 pm

    @Dangerman: There probably should be!

  21. 21.

    Old School

    October 13, 2022 at 12:58 pm

    @SFAW: How the heck did my brain still know who Nathan Thurm was?

  22. 22.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    The prospect of the hearing made me speed up and get my quota of papers done! Only War and Peace left to read, but I’ll do that later.

  23. 23.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:02 pm

    Bennie!!!!

  24. 24.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 1:02 pm

    It’s on!

  25. 25.

    frosty

    October 13, 2022 at 1:07 pm

    @Old School: I knew that. Why did you think I wouldn’t know that? Do you think I’m stupid? You’re the one who doesn’t know that.

  26. 26.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    October 13, 2022 at 1:09 pm

    Committee Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., told CNN that “unless something else develops,” Wednesday’s hearing will be the committee’s last before it issues a complete report on its investigation.

    While lawmakers have not revealed any specifics ahead of Wednesday’s hearing, committee member Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., told CNN it will “be potentially more sweeping than some of the other hearings.”

    Is somebody confused about what day it is? Or is there another hearing scheduled for next Wednesday? Or am I confused and today is Wednesday?

  27. 27.

    prostratedragon

    October 13, 2022 at 1:13 pm

    @zhena gogolia:  “Only War and Peace left to read, but I’ll do that later.” As always.

    But I’d  better pay attention.

  28. 28.

    Old School

    October 13, 2022 at 1:13 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: The hearing was originally scheduled for a Wednesday.  It was postponed by Hurricane Ian until today.

  29. 29.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:14 pm

    They seem to be setting up for some significant action.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 1:15 pm

    Still freaks me out that Cheney and I have the exact same glasses.

  31. 31.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 1:15 pm

    SFB has cheated his way through life. He is the epitome of a dumb ass cheat. If you look up dumb ass cheat in the dictionary you’ll find his picture under the most likely to fail. Only problem is that he failed upwards and fucked over a nation by being able to start with $400 million he cheated to get. He’s not the first in the world to do this and he likely won’t be the last. But the world is getting too crowded to work with a bunch of small minded (teeny tinny minded, approaching minuscule minded) leaders who think their shit doesn’t stink, mainly because it stinks worse than most anyone else’s and they spread it around, like a 5 yr old finger painting. Everything they touch turns to shit and has to be cleaned and disinfected many times to get the stench out.

    The world is getting too crowded and the weapons too dangerous to keep doing the old way, which is turn a country to shit, the shit flows to another country and so on until the stench gets so bad that someone goes in and cleans up. And then the cycle continues. It’s been this way throughout the entirety of human existence. But it has to change, likely best at least 100 yrs ago, but we are past that time/stage. We have to realize (as most of us do) that we can’t keep repeating the cycle, it’s gotten too dangerous for way too many innocent beings. We know better, we know it’s wrong and that the only way to fix it is either from the inside or annihilation of most of us. But currently the world is seeing what happens when a dictator, in a dictatorial country that runs on grift and theft is having a hissy fit. And that has to change or millions can die and at the very least thousands will (and have), all for the enjoyment of one deranged fuck who thinks he should own the world, because he’s been able to steal pieces of it already. This is the concept of power and humanity for all the last how many years humans have existed. And it has to change. I’m not sure how, but one way is the concept of this country. It has never actually become the idea it was founded upon, which is that we are not master and slave, we are all equal. And of course that gets corrupted because some do have skills that others don’t, some end up with more money, which in the minds of so many equals power and position. Some look different or speak different or whatever. But it is the concept of this country that all of the old ways are bullshit and that’s true, the old ways are. But a concept and reality are two different things. I’m not sure they have to be but then look around and try and convince me otherwise. Humanity is messy, all over the map, and greed is one of our emotions, one that can help survival. And in a time of just scraping by we survive by any means necessary. But the only reason a lot of the world is just scrapping by is greed and the concept that greed brings survival. We have to change that or we won’t survive in an ever more crowed world.

     

    This is number 2 in my on going series. First never forget, second why never forget.

  32. 32.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:16 pm

    @Betty Cracker: They’re nice!

  33. 33.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 1:18 pm

    @Paul in KY: He wanted them in, as they were not there to harm him…

    Gosh, I thought they were all a bunch of antifa agents-provocateurs. Incredible that Trump was willing to put his head in the crocodile’s mouth there!

  34. 34.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:19 pm

    Who’s the handsome guy next to Lofgren?

    ETA: I guess he’s a lawyer, he’s there in the deposition listening to Stepien.

  35. 35.

    ian

    October 13, 2022 at 1:20 pm

    @NeenerNeener: Can’t tell is this is snark, but it would be serious malpractice, legally, ethically, and politically, to dig up his ex-wife’s grave to look for more documents.

    There is nothing I can think of that would do more to swing public opinion in favor of the orange menace.

  36. 36.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 1:20 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Thanks! If Cheney didn’t get hers at a discount via Zenni, she paid too much! 8-)

  37. 37.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:20 pm

    Christ, Kushner and Stepien.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 1:22 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Not a big deal.  They originally had the hearing scheduled for a Wednesday.

    So let’s not let ourselves be distracted by a nothing-burger.

  39. 39.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 1:22 pm

    Breaking News: FL jury recommends life w/o parole, not death penalty, for Parkland shooter.

    That was a bit of a surprise, seeing how it’s FL. But the verdict had to be unanimous and there were apparently one or more holdouts against the death penalty on the jury.

  40. 40.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:22 pm

    Fucking Stepien who helped defeat Liz with that crazy-eyes lady.

  41. 41.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 1:23 pm

    Can’t stomach TFG this early in the morning. I know, I know it’s not morning.

  42. 42.

    Kristine

    October 13, 2022 at 1:24 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Still freaks me out that Cheney and I have the exact same glasses.

    Wow. You two are practically twins.

    (sorry–channeling Black Widow in Winter Soldier)

  43. 43.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 1:25 pm

    @ian: ​
      I’ve seen people joking about this, but why would he steal the documents only to bury them with his ex? The whole point was to 1. have dirt on people/countries he didn’t like or 2. still pretend he was president and could look at top secret satellite images whenever he wanted or something. If they’re six feet under, you can’t do that.

    Unless you’ve made and hidden copies somewhere or something in an elaborate cover-up, but I’m applying Trump’s Razor™ here.

  44. 44.

    Almost Retired

    October 13, 2022 at 1:25 pm

    @zhena gogolia: ​
      It’s morning here, and the sight of him is roiling the oatmeal in my stomach.

  45. 45.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:29 pm

    Roger Stone.

  46. 46.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:30 pm

    “Are you people looking at me??  Because you’re supposed to be looking at me!”

  47. 47.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 1:38 pm

    Another revolting Trumpworld character — Jason Miller.

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 1:39 pm

    Looks like King Charles is making a PR play here:

    Truss: “Your Majesty… Lovely to see you again.”

    King: “Back again. Dear oh dear. Anyway…”

    This is one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen. 😂😂pic.twitter.com/ENP8pPl9kO

    — Brendan May (@bmay) October 12, 2022

  49. 49.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2022 at 1:39 pm

    @WaterGirl:

     

    YESSSS

  50. 50.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    @jonas: I know! What a man he is….

  51. 51.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 1:43 pm

    @ian: All the more reason for him (if he was that diabolical) to bury them in that grave.

    I don’t think he’s that diabolically smart, myself.

  52. 52.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2022 at 1:45 pm

    …. and in conclusion, this committee has authorized the US Marshall’s service to arrest the following Members of Congress for their seditious actions on the days leading up to and including January 6th and remanded them to the attention of the Department of Justice for indictments.

    @piratedan: thankfully, Congressional committees don’t have this power.

    Imagine how many people that son of a bitch Joe McCarthy would have put in jail if he could have.

  53. 53.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 1:45 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I’m pretty sure he thinks his mom having to meet with her for PM confirmation  is what was the straw that broke the camel’s old back.

  54. 54.

    StringOnAStick

    October 13, 2022 at 1:46 pm

    @Paul in KY: The coffin was apparently really heavy, so it’s probably some gold that Putler managed to get to him somehow.

  55. 55.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:47 pm

    Apparently “clouds and shadows” aren’t enough evidence for certain judges.

  56. 56.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:50 pm

    And Mike Pompeo and Pat Cipollone are down with the rule of law.

  57. 57.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 1:54 pm

    @Layer8Problem: Of course. The smart few left in the Republican party know there’s no good reason to go outside the law to abuse election processes when several practices have been established to do so under cover of law.

    I’m pretty sure that’s the only real split between Trump and the Cheneys.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 1:55 pm

    @Layer8Problem: Pompeo?

    (I’m not able to watch.)

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 1:57 pm

    listening.  i refuse to look at loser trump’s face.

  60. 60.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 1:57 pm

    Damn, these back-to-back clips are fucking blistering.

  61. 61.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:58 pm

    TFG speaks and you hear Jerry Lewis’ intonation, “HEY LAAYDEEE!!“

  62. 62.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 1:58 pm

    @Baud:  Yeah, they pulled him in on video.  He’s looking trim!

  63. 63.

    Weapon X

    October 13, 2022 at 1:59 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    The Cheneys view Trump like Elihu Smails viewed Al Czervik.

  64. 64.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 2:00 pm

    @Layer8Problem: Getting ready for 2024.

    ETA:  I should consider going on a diet.

  65. 65.

    Almost Retired

    October 13, 2022 at 2:04 pm

    @Baud:  Right.  I don’t think “Baud 2024 – the Return of Taft” would be a good slogan.

  66. 66.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 2:04 pm

    @Weapon X: Thanks for sending me down a little Hoogle research hole. I forgot about that movie. Never thought Ted Baxter would be seen as a qualified judge.

  67. 67.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    Hey, Ronna [Romney] McDaniel!

  68. 68.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    @jonas:

    I am against the death penalty. I don’t think murderers should get off that easy. And of course you are going to say easy?

    I grew up with someone who has been in jail for over half a century for murder. I think she should be out but that’s not my decision. The death penalty takes away the living with what you did to get in jail in the first place. The point of the death penalty is revenge. I think revenge is not a good penalty. Some will say it’s the same fate that you gave to someone else. I think living in a cell for decades, knowing why you are in there, why you have to stay in there, having that time to think about what you’ve done and was it worth this is a better punishment than not being able to.

  69. 69.

    Cameron

    October 13, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    @Layer8Problem: All three of them? Hearings are gonna be lit.

  70. 70.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 2:09 pm

    “The p word”

    HE CALLED HIM A POOPYHEAD?????

  71. 71.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 2:09 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I tend to agree.  I have done volunteer work at state prisons here and I could barely stand a few hours there.

  72. 72.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 2:11 pm

    Balloon Juice’s own Adam Schiff!

  73. 73.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 2:11 pm

    adam schiff!  yay!

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    October 13, 2022 at 2:11 pm

    @Layer8Problem: I sometimes hear Fred C. Boggs from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

  75. 75.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:12 pm

    I’m calling it now, James Spader will play Congressman Schiff in the movie.

  76. 76.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:13 pm

    @Geminid:  God, I would pay to watch him end that way.

  77. 77.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 2:13 pm

    So…the reporting is that the committee plans to vote to subpeona TFG during the “committee business meeting.”

  78. 78.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 2:20 pm

    @Layer8Problem: Ooh, perfect. I could picture Patricia Arquette as Liz Cheney.

  79. 79.

    phdesmond

    October 13, 2022 at 2:22 pm

    finally, Schiff is reading from secret service messages on the morning of Jan. 6, informing each other about individuals spotted with rifles and pistols

     

    ETA:  and on threats to Pence on Jan. 5 chatter on RWNJ social media sites.

  80. 80.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    Filthy commie maggots! New rotating tag!

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    this infuriates me.  i want to see the secret service leadership and members that allowed this prosecuted and imprisoned.

  82. 82.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    @zhena gogolia:   no.  please, no.

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:24 pm

    @Elizabelle: I was kidding.

  84. 84.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:26 pm

    “Do the right thing”?  Jesus.

  85. 85.

    Mike E

    October 13, 2022 at 2:28 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I was kidding.

    A likely defense for many involved with Jan 6th.

  86. 86.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:28 pm

    Very interested in what FTFNYT and/or Pitchbot’s take on this will be.

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 2:30 pm

    I missed a chunk of the hearing due to a meeting — were those awful emails from Secret Service agents, or were agents relaying what MAGA dopes were saying on monitored channels?

  88. 88.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 2:30 pm

    CBS tells me they’re going tp subpoena TFG

    ETA that with every one of these hearings I’m reminded of the many, many comments made right here that the days following the election, right up to the actual transfer of power, would be the most dangerous days of TFG’s malevolent maladministration, and boy, were those comments ever right on the moolah.

  89. 89.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker: MAGA dopes, but the SS later testified that they hadn’t seen anything concerning.

  90. 90.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:31 pm

    @JWR: And what will be the result of that?

  91. 91.

    Mike E

    October 13, 2022 at 2:33 pm

    Georgetown law guy on PBS just referred to the insurrectionists as “protesters”…the “neutral” media narrative on full display

  92. 92.

    CaseyL

    October 13, 2022 at 2:33 pm

    @geg6: He’ll ignore it.  GOPers ignore subpeonas, whether from Congress or Courts.   It’s up to DOJ to decide whether to charge them with contempt in those cases, and sometime DOJ decides not to.

    If (and it’s a big if) DOJ intends to charge Trump, they’re unlikely to back a Congressional subpoena.

  93. 93.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 2:33 pm

    @JWR: Just saw that, but it’s only for show.   trump will just delay, delay and delay.

    Christopher Wray needs to report to the House committee as soon as possible and explain how he plans on cleaning out the FBI of traitors

    The problem with cleaning out the Secret Service is there are too many to fire.

  94. 94.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 2:34 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah. Good luck with that. /s

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 2:34 pm

    @Layer8Problem:

    BREAKING NEWS

    The Jan. 6 panel plans to subpoena Donald Trump for testimony about his actions ahead of the Capitol riot, its most aggressive move so far.

    Thursday, October 13, 2022 2:31 PM ET

    It’s a remarkable escalation as the panel begins wrapping up its inquiry.

  96. 96.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    October 13, 2022 at 2:34 pm

    @ian: I think it’s criminal misconduct to put documents in a grave.

    I mean, sure, they’re hidden, but unless he’s made copies (which also wouldn’t be legal) and stored them outside then they don’t actually do him any good. If you want to sell them to the Russian or Saudis you have to dig them up, and that’s both inconvenient and easy to notice. If he didn’t want people to know he had them and he didn’t need or want to access them, he’d have been smarter to just destroy them.

    He’s also hasn’t exactly been real good at hiding the documents he’s been caught with.

    I think burying Ivana on his golf course was more of a power play than anything else.

  97. 97.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 2:34 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Thanks.

  98. 98.

    Gravenstone

    October 13, 2022 at 2:36 pm

    @JWR: I believe it’s actually that they plan to vote during today’s session whether or not to subpoena him. It’s not a given that they will do so, but I doubt they’d bring it to a vote if there wasn’t reasonable certainty the vote would be affirmative.

  99. 99.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:36 pm

    @Betty Cracker: It was, though, an SS guy who said “It could get sporty after dark.”

  100. 100.

    phdesmond

    October 13, 2022 at 2:37 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    direct observations of firearms on Jan. 6, reporting social media comments on Jan. 5.

  101. 101.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 2:38 pm

    @zhena gogolia: SS is more appropriates than USSS.   just sayin

  102. 102.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 2:38 pm

    In their headline, the NYT framed the subpoena as “an aggressive move that will likely be futile” – it’s aggravating as fuck that after everything, this is still likely true.

    I hate saying things like this, but God forgive me, I can’t wait until trump is no longer among the living.

  103. 103.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 2:39 pm

    @StringOnAStick: Probably. As I’m 99.999999% sure he didn’t buy a very heavy mahogany lead lined casket for her.

  104. 104.

    Mike E

    October 13, 2022 at 2:40 pm

    Now the PBS panel says the committee is forcing TURD’s adherents to claim this is all “political”. Reading from the “narrative” playbook, heh.

  105. 105.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 2:40 pm

    @JPL:

    Christopher Wray needs to report to the House committee as soon as possible and explain how he plans on cleaning out the FBI of traitors.

    Since Trump is always bitching about the FBI and recently inspired an unsuccessful attack on a field office in which the perp was later shot dead by cops, maybe there’s “bipartisan” consensus that the agency needs an overhaul…

  106. 106.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 2:40 pm

    @Kropacetic: I never knew his character’s first name was Elihu!  No  wonder he was always so pissed.

  107. 107.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 2:43 pm

    Remember to this day Pence still stands by trump.

  108. 108.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 2:43 pm

    @CaseyL:
    Of course he will.  But it seems to me that Justice is very close to indicting anyway.  With the latest from MaL with at least one cooperating witness as just another nail in the coffin (albeit in a separate case from this J6 one) and another reason for the committee to refer to DoJ.  The noose is tightening in both cases, I think.​

  109. 109.

    BC in Illinois

    October 13, 2022 at 2:43 pm

    I am watching the hearing on the Washington Post Youtube website [keeps the computer free for browsing] and I have several times shouted intemperately at the screen when reporter James Hohmann makes predictions, about the future, always with these words:

    If the Republicans, as expected, take control of Congress after this November . . .

    I realize that is a danger, but I don’t think that that it is “reporting,” to state it as given.

  110. 110.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 2:44 pm

    @Paul in KY: It was probably cardboard.

  111. 111.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 2:44 pm

    @Obvious Russian Troll: Would only be a great way to hide them. Not a great place if you need to retrieve them.

  112. 112.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 2:44 pm

    @Paul in KY:  Give the poor guy some slack, his boat got sunk!

  113. 113.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 2:45 pm

    @JPL: ​
     
    Publicly. I don’t believe he really does.

  114. 114.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 2:47 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    I doubt they’d bring it to a vote if there wasn’t reasonable certainty the vote would be affirmative.

    Agreed, but as @zhena gogolia (ETA and @JPL) has have noted, prolly ain’t gonna happen.

  115. 115.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:47 pm

    I hate him so much. I don’t think I’ve ever hated anyone this much. Maybe Putler.

  116. 116.

    Mike E

    October 13, 2022 at 2:48 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Yep, same slant on the PBS coverage that this is the last opportunity to get it out there before repubs seize the House

    ETA anybody else watching PBS?

  117. 117.

    Geminid

    October 13, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    @Gravenstone: A subpoena will be a parting shot. The Select Committee’s authority will end with the current Congress, and it’s unlikely they will ever take trump’s testimony.

    I think it’s s a good idea, though. trump is trouble for Republicans now and I say “stir it up.”

  118. 118.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    I’m now wondering if this will be over in time for my 4:30 zoom meeting.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    @JPL: To this day Pence thinks he has a shot of being president himself.

  120. 120.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 2:51 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    The smart few left in the Republican party know there’s no good reason to go outside the law to abuse election processes when several practices have been established to do so under cover of law.

    I’m pretty sure that’s the only real split between Trump and the Cheneys.

    Aw c’mon, don’t you remember the ruckus they made as the Supreme Court dismantled the Voting Rights Act?

    Wait, neither do I. Carry on then. :-)

  121. 121.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 2:57 pm

    I always chuckle when Patsy Balony comes on.

  122. 122.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 2:59 pm

    @Winston: I noticed that Stephanie Murphy paused between “Pat” and “Cipollone,” perhaps to avoid the Patsy Baloney transcription.

  123. 123.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 3:01 pm

    @Baud: Of which country?

  124. 124.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:02 pm

    Hide the ketchup

    BREAKING: The United States Supreme Court has *DENIED* Trump’s request to stay part of the 11th Circuit’s decision in the Mar-A-Lago documents case.

  125. 125.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:04 pm

    NANCY SMASH!

  126. 126.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    Pelosi’s as hard a case as we knew, carrying herself well.

  127. 127.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    This footage of Pelosi and Schumer is amazing.

  128. 128.

    schrodingers_cat

    October 13, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Talk about courage and cool under fire. She is amazing.

  129. 129.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    With frickin’ McConnell.  Someone should have pushed him out front and said “fix this, smart guy.”

  130. 130.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:07 pm

    @JPL: No dissent, it seems.

    I learned that the Christian Family Coalition (CFC) Florida, Inc. submitted an amicus brief in support of Trump.  Because that’s what Jesus would have done.

  131. 131.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:07 pm

    “I don’t think that that’s hard to clean up [defecation].”

  132. 132.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:07 pm

    Oh, Pelosi is hilarious!

  133. 133.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    @Layer8Problem: He’s a coward

  134. 134.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    I really wonder what was going through Pence’s mind at this moment. Like his honest actual thoughts, not whatever bullshit he told the media.

  135. 135.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    Somebody should contrast Pelosi and Schumer with, say, Brave Senator Hawley in side-by-side video images.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: “Clean up the poo poo!”

  137. 137.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    I hope the Pelosi video is posted later.  I can’t watch right now.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    the pooh pooh they’re making

    nonna pelosi has dealt w her share of toddlers

  139. 139.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:09 pm

    @zhena gogolia: “poo-poo” – Nana Nancy doesn’t wanna cuss on camera? :P

  140. 140.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:09 pm

    @Betty Cracker: “literally and figuratively”!

  141. 141.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:09 pm

    @Baud:  trump and the terrible horrible bad day.

  142. 142.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:10 pm

    can you imagine how unsettling it was to plead for help, and realize Clarke and others in the admin were not inclined to offer any aid or protection?

  143. 143.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 3:10 pm

    Goddamn! All this violence going down, and the one man who could stop it did NOTHING! Not new to you guys, I know, but again, Goddamn!

    And this footage of Pelosi is awesome!

  144. 144.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 3:12 pm

    I don’t know how the people of Bakersfield could vote for McCarthy again.

  145. 145.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:13 pm

    good.  nail kevin McCarthy to the wall.

    i hope subpoenas go out for a lot of gop congressional enablers

  146. 146.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:13 pm

    God, I wish I didn’t have a 4:30 zoom. Any chance they’ll be done by then?

  147. 147.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 3:15 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: Or plywood. 1/2 inch plywood.

  148. 148.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:15 pm

    you gotta love when twitter staff is more concerned than federal law enforcement

  149. 149.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2022 at 3:16 pm

    @Layer8Problem: You’re right. He did have some strange & bad things happen to him.

  150. 150.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:17 pm

    @Paul in KY: I always say this, but wear a hat like that, you get a free bowl of soup.

  151. 151.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:17 pm

    @zhena gogolia:  they can take as long as it takes, imho.  bring it on! it will be as interesting to watch later, too.

    i would love to hear that your students were glued to this too

  152. 152.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 3:17 pm

    They should repeat this hearing daily in prime time for the next 3 weeks.

  153. 153.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:18 pm

    @Elizabelle: I doubt it.

  154. 154.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:18 pm

    @Paul in KY:  Yes, but you’re right, a name like Elihu is is a tremendous weight to bear.

  155. 155.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:18 pm

    @Winston: That would be nice.

  156. 156.

    phdesmond

    October 13, 2022 at 3:19 pm

    @Elizabelle: very responsible Twitter personnel!

  157. 157.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 3:20 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    nail kevin McCarthy to the wall.

    Not with a nail, but with a railroad spike. But it’s striking, considering that the new book by Fanone has McCarthy telling Fanone that he wasn’t sure whether or not TFG new what was going on. He knew, Kevin, you lying POS!

  158. 158.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:20 pm

    trump using the word “sacred.”

    lol.  sacre bleu!!

    eta:  sacred landslide victory.  his ass.

  159. 159.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:21 pm

    SCOTUS tells trump to fuck off on the documents case. I’m a bit amazed.

    The court’s order, which was a sentence long, was a stinging rebuke to Mr. Trump. There were no noted dissents, and the court gave no reasons, saying only: “The application to vacate the stay entered by the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit on Sept. 21, 2022, presented to Justice Thomas and by him referred to the court is denied.”

    LOL.

  160. 160.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:21 pm

    @Winston:  The last twenty minutes have been gripping.  Poo Poo and all

  161. 161.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2022 at 3:21 pm

    I don’t know how the people of Bakersfield could vote for McCarthy again.

    @Winston: I take it you’ve never been there.  That dense motherfucker is definitely the best and brightest they’ve got.

  162. 162.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:22 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:

    It was expected, to the extent anything can be expected with this court.

  163. 163.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:23 pm

    @Baud: I don’t expect anything even minutely decent from Thomas.

  164. 164.

    Suzanne

    October 13, 2022 at 3:23 pm

    @WaterGirl: I will be at a concert tomorrow evening, so I’ll have to catch up on the shitshow debate later.

  165. 165.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:23 pm

    @JWR:  cspan showed some moments of fanone and his uniformed colleagues during testimony on the law enforcement messages — fanone on the edge of his seat in the hearing room.

  166. 166.

    JBWoodford

    October 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    More like “sacre orange,” amirite?

  167. 167.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: That’s a good approach to take.

  168. 168.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

    @Baud:  Nancy slaps Dump’s coup flunk at DOD across the face (clip)

     

    “Don’t screw with me Burt“

  169. 169.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

    and there fanone was again

    wondering if his posture is spinal pain

  170. 170.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:25 pm

    @Baud: Aaron Rupar has good clips of the Pelosi footage on twitter, if that’s easier for you.

  171. 171.

    guachi

    October 13, 2022 at 3:25 pm

    Pelosi comes across so well in those clips. She’s sharp.

     

    I also laughed when Schumer laid into Barr on the phone to do something.

  172. 172.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:25 pm

    @JBWoodford:   oui!!

  173. 173.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:26 pm

    @guachi: It was Rosen.

  174. 174.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    Subpoena.

  175. 175.

    M31

    October 13, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    subpoena the motherfucker

  176. 176.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    Go, Liz.

  177. 177.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    Subpoena! Whee! He’ll ignore it, but…still fun to hear.

  178. 178.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    cheney brings the stiletto resolution

  179. 179.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2022 at 3:28 pm

     “The application to vacate the stay entered by the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit on Sept. 21, 2022, presented to Justice Thomas and by him referred to the court is denied.”

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:

    After a little while, those standing there went up to Justice Thomas and said, “Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away.” Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, “I don’t know the man!” Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Justice Thomas remembered the word President Trump had spoken: “Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly, as many strong men, mostly Marine generals, did when dealing with President Trump.

    And then they nailed President Trump to a tree and the people all had awesome lives afterwards.

  180. 180.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:28 pm

    How about instead of a subpoena, we just tie trump to a chair and let Liz have at him for 30 minutes.

  181. 181.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:29 pm

    i hope liz works in footage of hawley running

  182. 182.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:29 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Hallelujah!

  183. 183.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:29 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Roger Stone looks like the supernatural bad guy in a Steven King novel trying to look suave in his human suit.

  184. 184.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:30 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: I hope they consider lining to floor with newspaper.

  185. 185.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:30 pm

    @Baud: They haven’t voted yet.

  186. 186.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia: My comment wasn’t directed at the subpoena.

  187. 187.

    Geminid

    October 13, 2022 at 3:31 pm

    @Layer8Problem: Stone probably is human, but he’s definitely a freak.

  188. 188.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:32 pm

    THE AYES HAVE IT!

  189. 189.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    @Baud: Oh, sorry, haha

  190. 190.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Roger Stone looks like the supernatural bad guy in a Steven King novel trying to look suave in his human suit.

    @Layer8Problem: it’s all too easy to picture him drenched to the elbows in human blood, laughing like a happy child.

  191. 191.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    Well, Politico and the Times would have to acknowledge that that was bipartisan.

  192. 192.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    KETCHUP ALL OVER THE WALLS

  193. 193.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 3:34 pm

    Best one yet. Fry the bastard.

  194. 194.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:34 pm

    i hope we see a surprise j6 hearing or two!  [law] breaking news!

  195. 195.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:34 pm

    Wow, I need a cigarette. And I haven’t smoked a cigarette since 1973.

  196. 196.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    @Winston: Best one yet, indeed. Unbelievable.

  197. 197.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 3:37 pm

    @Suzanne: All you people with your “plans”!  :-)

  198. 198.

    JPL

    October 13, 2022 at 3:38 pm

    Since there is proof that some witnesses lied under oath, why not ask for arrest warrants for perjury?

  199. 199.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:38 pm

    @zhena gogolia: You’ve come a long way, baby.

  200. 200.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    October 13, 2022 at 3:39 pm

    Wow.

    He won’t show up to testify of course. But still a big move to subpoena him. Not sure what the game plan is, but it will obviously dominate the news cycle for the weekend.

  201. 201.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:40 pm

    I’m watching Bechloss on MSNBC and I want his reading nook.

  202. 202.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 3:41 pm

    Wasn’t able to tune in until nearly 2:45, due to meetings at 1 and 2.  All I can say is if what I missed was as intense as what I saw, that was about as much as I could handle.

    And yeah, Nancy Smash was far more in control of herself than I would have been under those circumstances. Im-fucking-pressive.

  203. 203.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 3:41 pm

    Got my confirmation today. My mail in vote has been received, and counted. Yay.

  204. 204.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:41 pm

    c span has kinzinger interacting w capitol police

  205. 205.

    apocalipstick

    October 13, 2022 at 3:42 pm

    @Old School: Because it’s one of the best comic bits of all time.

  206. 206.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 13, 2022 at 3:43 pm

    @JPL:

    The problem with cleaning out the Secret Service is there are too many to fire.

    Roman Emperor Constantine I disbanded the Praetorian Guard and replaced them with a newly-formed bodyguard unit, so there is precedent.

  207. 207.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2022 at 3:43 pm

    @guachi:

    Pelosi comes across so well in those clips. She’s sharp.

    Yeah, she is still formidable, and dangerous to her opponents.

  208. 208.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:43 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: Right??? I don’t know how they were all so calm, at least outwardly. I’d have been crying in a corner in the fetal position.

  209. 209.

    glc

    October 13, 2022 at 3:43 pm

    @Baud: Well you have that in common at least.

  210. 210.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 3:43 pm

    Damn.

    Adjourned.

    In my 73 yrs I’ve never seen anything like this.

    I’ve watched each one of these and they were good, about a subject that was anything but. I’ve taken an oath for this country. I didn’t do it lightly because I feel that I am a citizen and that has responsibilities, even as sometimes I don’t agree with how those responsibilities are laid out. But this one, this responsibility of being part of this county, of being a citizen, of following the law, of knowing that the leader of this country absolutely did everything but his duty on that worst of days of our country, that he acted in every way not as a citizen of the country but as the illegal owner of something that he can not own. I knew before hearing this that he is a traitor. But public conformation of this is chilling in the extreme.

  211. 211.

    MisterDancer

    October 13, 2022 at 3:44 pm

    I’ve got to get on the road (again! It’s been a heck of a month) but let me just say — thank you, J6th committee, Pelosi for her focus on that grave day, and Schumer for backing her all the way, both then and after.

    Look, y’all — we focus a lot on the bad, and for damned good reason. Yet we should acknowledge when the bad are confronted by the good in us, and not allowed to move forward without friction.

    It may not be enough for the moment, but what’s happening is clearly, now, a damn sight away from mere appeasement.

  212. 212.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 3:44 pm

    Tony Ornato is going to jail.— Ron Filipkowski 🇺🇦 (@RonFilipkowski) October 13, 2022

    Seems obvious other Secret Service Agents implicated him, and seemed to suggest he tried to get them to lie to the committee. Committee says they are making a criminal referral for this person for Obstruction of Justice.— Ron Filipkowski 🇺🇦 (@RonFilipkowski) October 13, 2022

    Shit, I didn’t buy enough popcorn😱

  213. 213.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2022 at 3:45 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    And then they nailed President Trump to a tree

    The Tree of Liberty!

  214. 214.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:45 pm

    @Bill Arnold: We need a patriot to go along with the tyrant.

  215. 215.

    Layer8Problem

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

    Schumer wasn’t wussing in talking with the Attorney General.  No cravenness or fear I could see from the Democrats.  Hats off to the staff I assume the Speaker’s daughter to have the presence of mind to record it in real time.

  216. 216.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

    @Ruckus:

    But this one, this responsibility of being part of this county, of being a citizen, of following the law, of knowing that the leader of this country absolutely did everything but his duty on that worst of days of our country, that he acted in every way not as a citizen of the country but as the illegal owner of something that he can not own. I knew before hearing this that he is a traitor. But public conformation of this is chilling in the extreme.

    (Emphasis mine.) That is so well put.

  217. 217.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

    @…now I try to be amused: ​  After Dallas, LBJ wanted to replace them with a FBI detail.​

  218. 218.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

     

    @Ruckus: In my 73 yrs I’ve never seen anything like this.

    In your 73 years there has never been a president like Trump.

  219. 219.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:   i hope so.  ornato is a corrupt and rotted apple

  220. 220.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 3:47 pm

    @JPL: ​
     
    Oh, that’s a lovely thing.

  221. 221.

    randy khan

    October 13, 2022 at 3:48 pm

    @JPL:

    BREAKING: The United States Supreme Court has *DENIED* Trump’s request to stay part of the 11th Circuit’s decision in the Mar-A-Lago documents case.

    No recorded dissents, not even Thomas or Alito.  (That doesn’t necessarily mean they supported it, since once you hit five nobody else actually has to vote, but they definitely did not feel they could object publicly.)

  222. 222.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 3:48 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    It was her daughter filming that whole thing.  Amazing stuff.

  223. 223.

    Soprano2

    October 13, 2022 at 3:48 pm

    Had to leave to get a Reclast infusion (it’s for bones). Took them 4 sticks to get the IV; next year I’ll tell them to get the 3rd nurse and just put it in my hand. I almost left! So I’ll watch the rest tomorrow, sounds like quite the show!

  224. 224.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:49 pm

    @…now I try to be amused:   Ruckus did have a good comment.

    And, never broached in any of this:  Trump wanted to stay in office not to serve the US people, but because being POTUS helped delay his dealings with the criminal justice system.

  225. 225.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:49 pm

    TALLAHASSEE, FLA. (WSVN) – Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is under investigation over whether he misused taxpayer dollars to fly dozens of migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, and it’s the Treasury Department who is heading the probe.

  226. 226.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 3:50 pm

    @guachi:

    There is a reason Nancy has lasted so long and is easily remains leadership. She is great. Even at her age she is great, she knows what to do and what and when to say it. Any of us should be so lucky to 1/10 the human that she is.

  227. 227.

    Josie

    October 13, 2022 at 3:50 pm

    @Elizabelle: ​
     I just finished reading his book. It was gripping and thorough. I recommend it.

  228. 228.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 3:51 pm

    Calling on the flabby liar to testify under oath!

    Chances he will appear willingly? Zero?

    Likelihood he will do everything he can to delay appearing forever (i.e., until he after he is reelected)? 100%

    Odds that he will either take the Fifth or lie his fascist ass off if he ever does testify? Infinity to zero.

  229. 229.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:51 pm

    I think C-Span might be running the J6 hearing again, in full.  Benny Thompson, opening the proceedings.

    http://www.c-span.org

  230. 230.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 3:51 pm

    @Ruckus: My mom just turned 75, and she basically said never in her wildest dreams did she think it could get worse than Nixon. My fear is that we might be thinking the same thing now, and God only knows what absolute nightmare the GOP might dredge up from the bottom of a swamp in the future.

  231. 231.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 3:51 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Wow, I need a cigarette. And I haven’t smoked a cigarette since 1973.

    Wish I could say that, but then if I existed in 1973, that would mean we have time machines and I arrived in the past and took up smoking again.

    But that I suppose that would mean I won’t have smoked another cigarette until 1973.

  232. 232.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    @Geminid:

    Stone probably is human, but he’s definitely a freak.

    The fleshy part of him is human, sure. Well, abhuman, but close enough.
    It’s one reason why the entity known as Mr. Stone uses human growth hormone; as a prophylaxis to reduce the probability of success of a certain class of [supernatural] attack.
    Why yes, I loath him. Reasons. :-)

  233. 233.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    @Baud:  Love it.

    Also, Biden should move the Secret Service back under Treasury supervision, at first opportunity.  DHS is a behemoth.  Break it up.

  234. 234.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    @MisterDancer:

    This.

  235. 235.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 3:53 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

    I’m not sure there is enough popcorn.

  236. 236.

    Kay

    October 13, 2022 at 3:53 pm

    Mark Joseph Stern
    @mjs_DC
    ·2h
    Texas law enforcement has certified that the migrants whom Ron DeSantis trafficked to Martha’s Vineyard are victims of a crime—potentially qualifying them for a U-visa, which would allow them to stay in the U.S. for four years and apply for a green card in three years.

    Ha!

  237. 237.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 3:54 pm

    @Layer8Problem: ​
     
    In every zoom I’ve seen of him since the pandemic began, he has a fabulous house. Every room is just gorgeous.

  238. 238.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2022 at 3:54 pm

    @Josie:  Fanone’s book?  Good to hear.

  239. 239.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 3:54 pm

    @Elizabelle: ​
      they already have the full event stored in their library ready for viewing at any time (link)

  240. 240.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 3:55 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Actually I lived in California for many years and visited Bakersfield a number of times. I had several construction jobs there and I never noticed the people there were strange.

  241. 241.

    karen marie

    October 13, 2022 at 3:55 pm

    @WaterGirl:   There’s a story where people are made to use artificial handicaps if they’re too smart, too good looking, too athletic.  (I can’t remember the author or the title.)  This timeline is a bit closer to that story than I am comfortable with.

  242. 242.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 3:55 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: Keep up the fight.

  243. 243.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 3:56 pm

    @Winston:

    Mine, too.  That’s one vote for Fetterman, Shapiro, Deluzio (newly drawn open House seat) and Matzie (state rep) locked in.

  244. 244.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 3:56 pm

    @raven:

    👍

  245. 245.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2022 at 3:57 pm

    @Baud:

    We need a patriot to go along with the tyrant.

    He calls himself the most hugely patriotic patriot in the entirely history of patrioting.
    His blood would do. The tree doesn’t really care.

  246. 246.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 3:57 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    He was president of this country in name badge only.

    He is a traitor to this country, to all who have died in it’s name, to all of it’s citizens dead or alive and to the concept that is the basis of this country.

  247. 247.

    Josie

    October 13, 2022 at 3:57 pm

    @Elizabelle: ​
     Yes. The title is Hold the Line.

  248. 248.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    October 13, 2022 at 3:57 pm

    @karen marie: It’s a Vonnegut story. “Harrison Bergeron” I think.

  249. 249.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 3:58 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Fuck LBJ.

  250. 250.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2022 at 3:58 pm

    @karen marie:

    Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut Jr!

  251. 251.

    geg6

    October 13, 2022 at 3:59 pm

    @Baud: ​
     
    I saw a blurb on this earlier today. They are investigating whether he used pandemic funds to pull this shit off.

  252. 252.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2022 at 4:00 pm

    Texas law enforcement has certified that the migrants whom Ron DeSantis trafficked to Martha’s Vineyard are victims of a crime—potentially qualifying them for a U-visa, which would allow them to stay in the U.S. for four years and apply for a green card in three years.

    @Kay: gg governor tinydick

  253. 253.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:00 pm

    @raven: Fuck LBJ.

    Careful with that. I once said something along those lines to someone I had an upcoming date with.

    He used our date to show me his collection of LBJ speeches.

    No, I didn’t see him again, thanks for asking.

  254. 254.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 4:01 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: It built slowly. At first I thought there was nothing I hadn’t seen, but then they broke out the Secret Service stuff and Nancy Smash.

  255. 255.

    phdesmond

    October 13, 2022 at 4:01 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    never divide by zero.  :-)

  256. 256.

    Captain C

    October 13, 2022 at 4:01 pm

    @randy khan:

    No recorded dissents, not even Thomas or Alito.

    I wonder if someone, maybe Dred Scott Roberts, had a little conversation with Thomas about how his having a family member implicated in January 6 might make it look really bad for the court’s already shaky credibility if he spoke out for Trump in the docs case, to the point that even Alito and the TFG 3 would have to back away.

  257. 257.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:02 pm

    @Baud: ​
     

    Awesome.

  258. 258.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:02 pm

    @Soprano2:

    Last bad stick I had I offered to do it for the person attempting and not succeeding. I’ve had so many and my veins are so easy to hit that it is only operator error to miss. Some of us are not so lucky. But most of us, if we have been stuck more than say 6 times wonder what the hell makes it so difficult.

  259. 259.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 13, 2022 at 4:02 pm

    @raven: ​
      This place will be lit in 2027:

    LBJ & the Great Society
    A Film by Ken Burns & Lynn Novick

    This four-part, eight-hour series will chronicle the life and times of Lyndon Johnson, one of the most capable, colorful and controversial men ever to occupy the White House.

    Released in 2027

  260. 260.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:02 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Couldn’t happen to a nicer person.

  261. 261.

    Geminid

    October 13, 2022 at 4:03 pm

    I’m glad these hearings gave some lesser known Democratic Reps good national exposure. Elaine Luria certainly can use it. She flipped the coastal Virginia 2nd CD in 2018, but a tough opponent and a redrawn district make her reelection this year a heavy lift.

    Pete Aguilar flipped a Southern California district in 2014, when he was the Mayor of Redlands. His seat is fairly safe now, but its good for people to know him better because he may well be part of the Democrats’ House top leadership team if and when Speaker Pelosi and Representatives Hoyer and Clyburn step aside.

    As Assistant Caucus Chairman, Pete Aguilar ranks 6th in in the Caucus now. He is around 42 years old, and I believe Elaine Luria is 45 or 46. She enrolled at the Naval Academy when she was 17 and ran for Congress shortly after retiring  from the Navy with rank of Lieutenant Commander.

  262. 262.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:03 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:

    Haha.  Looking forward to the multi-part discussion thread.

  263. 263.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    Just checked TFG’s Twitter knock-off, (Truth Social, if you dare!), and in the last 15-20 minutes, nothing but graphs from rags like The Daily Caller and The Free Beacon showing how much better everything was when he was in office.

    PS to Donald! You’ve been served, you asswipe!

  264. 264.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    @geg6: I hope they nail that corrupt son of a bitch, but sadly, it won’t happen before the election.

  265. 265.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    SFB has also failed upwards in most every thing he’s ever done. He started with enough money to allow any one to live a life in luxury and style. And he’s failed at every single fucking thing he’s tried. Every one. The only thing he’s ever learned is how to do enough behind the scenes criming to be able to buy his way out of.

    Till now.

  266. 266.

    gene108

    October 13, 2022 at 4:06 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:

    My mom just turned 75, and she basically said never in her wildest dreams did she think it could get worse than Nixon. My fear is that we might be thinking the same thing now, and God only knows what absolute nightmare the GOP might dredge up from the bottom of a swamp in the future.

    Unless the majority of Republicans can admit a mistake, their candidates and office holders can only get worse.

    They start from a foundation of lies, bad faith arguments, and conspiracy theories and double down on all of them, rather than admitting “mistakes were made”.

  267. 267.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 4:08 pm

    Clarence Thomas declined to review Trump appeal.

  268. 268.

    Gravenstone

    October 13, 2022 at 4:09 pm

    @Kay: Thanks, Ron! Welcome to the land of unintended consequences, fuckers!

  269. 269.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:10 pm

    @Winston: It was the whole court that voted.  Thomas didn’t dissent.

  270. 270.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 4:10 pm

    @Kropacetic: Yea, what outfit was he in?

  271. 271.

    Nelle

    October 13, 2022 at 4:11 pm

    @Ruckus: May I share this with others?  Well said, indeed.

  272. 272.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:12 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: ​
     

    My mom just turned 75, and she basically said never in her wildest dreams did she think it could get worse than Nixon.

    For thirty years, I’d figured I’d never see a worse President in my lifetime than Nixon. Then in early 2004, it occurred to me that Dubya had blown right through that. So now I’ve seen at least two worse Presidents than Tricky Dick.

    My fear is that we might be thinking the same thing now, and God only knows what absolute nightmare the GOP might dredge up from the bottom of a swamp in the future.

    Too true, unfortunately.

  273. 273.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:13 pm

    @gene108: They start from a foundation of lies, bad faith arguments, and conspiracy theories and double down on all of them, rather than admitting “mistakes were made”.

    This worries me, though, because too few people pay enough attention. Last night we in MA  had a debate between our candidates for governor.

    I’d say the Trumpy R, especially in the latter half came across more polished and more directly responsive to questions.

    But he lied. He disembelled about his support of Trump’s 2020 election lies. He misrepresented vaccine science, all while pointing out he got the vaccine and is not an anti-vaxxer. 🤮  He spread CRT lies about us teaching white students that if they succeed it’s only because they’re white.

    The D candidate, whom I adore, didn’t push back on much of this. She did a better job rebutting on economic matters and her own record, but I wonder how many people will see that and not recognize the R dishonesty.

  274. 274.

    NotMax

    October 13, 2022 at 4:14 pm

    The walls of the trash masher are in motion and R2D2 is conspicuously absent.

  275. 275.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:14 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛:

    In comparison, as you point out, Nixon can’t hold a candle to shit for brains. As I said above, he has failed at every step in his life. The only thing he’s ever done is appear wealthy. Every business, every step of the way he’s been a failure. He’s not smart enough to be the White House janitor, let alone president. And the current day rethuglican party has sunk to it’s lowest point in the life of anyone still breathing. Likely anyone on this blog can name half a dozen or more current rethuglican politicians that are as shitty as any humans who has ever existed.

  276. 276.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 4:14 pm

    @Ruckus: Funny, that was my rationale for being in the VVAW.

  277. 277.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:14 pm

    @Elizabelle: ​
     

    Also, Biden should move the Secret Service back under Treasury supervision, at first opportunity. DHS is a behemoth. Break it up.

    I suspect that would require legislation. But yeah, the Dems ought to at least try to break up DHS and return the Secret Service to Treasury.

  278. 278.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:15 pm

    @raven: Yea, what outfit was he in?

    Sweatpants no shirt. Only reason I tolerated it past the first speech.

  279. 279.

    West of the Rockies

    October 13, 2022 at 4:16 pm

    @karen marie:

    Never mind.

  280. 280.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 4:16 pm

    @Baud: Even better.

  281. 281.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    @Kropacetic: That’s what I figured.

  282. 282.

    Alison Rose 💙🌻💛

    October 13, 2022 at 4:18 pm

    @Ruckus: Yeah, somehow I still manage to be baffled by just how incredibly stupid trump is. If he’d been born to a normal middle-class family, he wouldn’t have gone on to do shit with his life and the rest of the world would be better off for it.

  283. 283.

    prostratedragon

    October 13, 2022 at 4:19 pm

    The complete Supreme Court ruling:

    The application to vacate the stay entered by the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit on September 21, 2022, presented to Justice [Clarence] Thomas and by him referred to the Court is denied

    I’m reminded of this cartoon.

  284. 284.

    Winston

    October 13, 2022 at 4:19 pm

    PBS is rebroadcasting now.

  285. 285.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:19 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    I think Republicans practice media appearances more than Dems.  I also think they have the confidence of knowing they won’t get called out on their lies or gaffes.

  286. 286.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:20 pm

    @raven: Haha, if you want to get me to do something I’m disinclined towards, appeal to my…more prurient interests. I don’t know how many people I got I set aside my own wants to do favors for because they were nice to look at.

  287. 287.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:22 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: ​
     

    “The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way.”

    I’ve always loved that opening bit.

  288. 288.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:22 pm

    @Baud: Yeah. I do just wish Healey, the D, had gone after him on some of this. A lot of her answers in the latter half where this stuff came up sounded especially scripted.

  289. 289.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:23 pm

    @Nelle:

    Absolutely.

    And thank you.

  290. 290.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 4:25 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    1. outfitnoun
      any cohesive unit such as a military company
  291. 291.

    NotMax

    October 13, 2022 at 4:26 pm

    Footnote to the hearing was the clerk using “Mrs.” for Representatives Luria and Murphy. Wonder if that’s a lingering artifact of the formal process or if female members of the House have the option to request that form of address rather than Ms.

  292. 292.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:28 pm

    @raven: Oh, haha. That I don’t know. I spent most of that night getting to know LBJ rather than my date.

  293. 293.

    gene108

    October 13, 2022 at 4:28 pm

    @Soprano2:

     

    @Ruckus:

    IV’s are different from drawing blood. The veins that could be used to draw blood don’t always work for an IV.

    An IV has to slide into a vein for a distance greater than the depth needed to draw blood, and the vein has to be large enough and straight enough to accommodate the IV.

  294. 294.

    raven

    October 13, 2022 at 4:28 pm

    @Kropacetic: I suspect it was no outfit. Nixon was a fucking scumbag but LBJ wasn’t that far behind.

  295. 295.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    @Geminid: Everybody’s back in the Winnable House Races Purple thermometer.

    Folks can click customize amounts to give to just Elaine Luria.  We need to keep her and we need to keep the House.


    Donate
  296. 296.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    @raven:

    And you also joined, as I did. I think you were younger than I was as you said you couldn’t be stationed in Vietnam as you were under 18. I was 20 when I enlisted and 2 days later they announced the draft lottery. I figured that since I’d already enlisted my number would be over 200 but no, it was 15. I was going either way, I just got to choose in what branch I served.

  297. 297.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    the Dems ought to at least try to break up DHS and return the Secret Service to Treasury.

    Wasn’t it the Dems who really pushed for the creation of the monster that is the DHS back then? I remember being quite angry that they were going that route. Or am I misremembering something?

  298. 298.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:30 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: ​
     

    The satirical book The Begatting of a President, in a chapter titled “L.B. Jenesis,” describes how LBJ created the Great Society in six days. “And on the seventh day he gave a barbecue.”

    “Still LBJ rested not from his labors, but said, ‘Shucks, let there be an eighth day.’ And on the eighth day, he escalated.”

  299. 299.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 4:31 pm

    @NotMax: I wondered the same thing when I heard that. I’m pretty sure he called Cheney and Lofgren Ms.

  300. 300.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:32 pm

    @raven: Fuckem both.

    And I’m wondering if he was old enough to serve then. He was older than I was, maybe early to mid 40s in approximately 2010.

  301. 301.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2022 at 4:33 pm

    @Ruckus:

     

    Very well said. Thank you. Thank you so much.

  302. 302.

    gene108

    October 13, 2022 at 4:36 pm

    @Baud:

    I also think they have the confidence of knowing they won’t get called out on their lies or gaffes.

    They have an entire media ecosystem to polish their turds, so Republican voters become impressed with some shiny shit.

    Bush, Jr.’s failures during Katrina were deflected by right-wing media blaming Mayor Nagin. Alex Jones even now has vocal defenders convincing people the recent verdict is a Deep State plot by the regime to stifle conservative voices.

    It’s virtually impossible for a Republican to fail so hard that the entirety of the news media turns on them, and doesn’t try to defend whatever crap they just did.

  303. 303.

    Orange is the New Red

    October 13, 2022 at 4:37 pm

    @karen marie: Could you mean a story from Welcome to the Monkey House by Vonnegut?

  304. 304.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:37 pm

    @Betty Cracker:  Speaking of which, do you know how Charlie Crist is doing for money?

  305. 305.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:38 pm

    @Kay: Today is a good day.

  306. 306.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 13, 2022 at 4:39 pm

    @JWR: ​
     

    Wasn’t it the Dems who really pushed for the creation of the monster that is the DHS back then? I remember being quite angry that they were going that route. Or am I misremembering something?

    I honestly can’t remember. It wouldn’t surprise me, for a year or so in there, it seemed like everybody was trying to out-patriot everyone else.

    Two decades later, I really don’t care who did it, but obviously the GQP isn’t gonna fix it. So it’s up to the Dems. As usual.

  307. 307.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:39 pm

    @gene108:

    Agree.  OTOH, when they do mess up or are not sharp, they don’t freak about it.  I think our side tends to focus on the negative more.

  308. 308.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:41 pm

    @gene108:

    My normal ones are big enough.

    There was a girl at one VA clinic who worked in the lab drawing blood. She never missed, I never felt the stick, and I’ve been stuck a lot of times in my lifetime. I was once taken to navy hospital with a fever of 105 and really, really felt like I was going to die. The guy that stuck me tried several times and couldn’t hit a vein to save his life. Turns out he had just reported from corpsman school and had never actually stuck a human, only fruit. The other corpsman came in and showed him what he was doing wrong and he hit the mother lode on the next try. Which was good for him (and me) as I was about 10 seconds from passing out if he missed again.

  309. 309.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 4:44 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Thank You.

  310. 310.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 4:46 pm

    @WaterGirl: Last I heard, DeSantis had something like a 20-to-1 cash advantage, so not great. I don’t think it’s necessarily that Crist isn’t raising money (I don’t know one way or another) — it’s that wingnut billionaires and MAGA dopes are raining cash on DeSantis.

  311. 311.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 4:47 pm

    @JWR: Wasn’t it the Dems who really pushed for the creation of the monster that is the DHS back then?

    Not sure either, but we had a split Congress at the time so there was definitely Dem buy-in. This was part if the ineptly named US PATRIOT Act, right?

    That act was how I formed my negative initial impression of Biden. He said something to the effect of there’s a lot in there we wanted for years. I was 18 and looking at that act as an unmitigated attack on everyone’s rights.

    Fortunately, Biden has grown on me.

  312. 312.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:51 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    Fortunately, Biden has grown on me.

    It was the sweatpants, no shirt, wasn’t it?

  313. 313.

    gene108

    October 13, 2022 at 4:52 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    I’d say the Trumpy R, especially in the latter half came across more polished and more directly responsive to questions.

    But he lied. He disembelled about his support of Trump’s 2020 election lies. He misrepresented vaccine science, all while pointing out he got the vaccine and is not an anti-vaxxer. 🤮 He spread CRT lies about us teaching white students that if they succeed it’s only because they’re white.

    There’s no machine for Democrats to be spoon fed talking points. There are operatives coming up with talking points for every Republican to use, from a random commenter on the internet to politicians to media.

  314. 314.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:52 pm

    @Betty Cracker:   I think Crist can win, so maybe it’s time for us to help again.

    Donate
  315. 315.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 4:53 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    for a year or so in there, it seemed like everybody was trying to out-patriot everyone else.

    Ahh, for the good ol’ days, when all Amurikuns was Amurikun! /s

    I don’t remember those days very well, neither, but you’re right, the Dems may have F’d up back then, now they’ve gotta fix it.

  316. 316.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 4:54 pm

    @WaterGirl: Maybe every time you use “Charlie Crist” or “DeSantis” in a post, you should link to the thermometer.

    Save Florida from DeSantis

  317. 317.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 4:54 pm

    Until today, I’ve thought the committee has done an extraordinary job. But I’ve always wondered about one thing — why hadn’t they subpoenaed Trump? Today they voted to do just that, but now I am critical of their decision to wait until half way through October. Since everyone knows that one of Trump’s main legal strategies is delay, the likelihood that this will be resolved before the committee ends seems nonexistent. So, why bother now? And why didn’t they subpoena him months ago.? His testimony has always been the most important.

  318. 318.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 4:55 pm

    @gene108:

    There are operatives coming up with talking points for every Republican to use, from a random commenter on the internet to politicians to media.

    This is true.  Sometimes, you can step back and see the talking points spread out like waves on a pond.

  319. 319.

    karen marie

    October 13, 2022 at 4:57 pm

    @Amir Khalid:  @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    You kids are so smart!

    I rarely check my mail but I checked it today to see if my ballot has arrived yet.  Not yet but I got a giant book of info about the election.  I’ve always voted but this election, I’m going to get my ballot filled out and turned in ASAP.

  320. 320.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 4:58 pm

     

    @phdesmond: Never divide hy zero.

    It’s Trump. The normal rules don’t apply.

  321. 321.

    gene108

    October 13, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    @Ruckus:

    My normal ones are big enough.

    Where I get stuck for labs versus IV’s are in different parts of my arm. Been told they can’t use the lab draw vein for the IV, because they need to go for veins a bit deeper under the skin for IV’s.

  322. 322.

    MomSense

    October 13, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    It was not pushed by Democrats.  It was not part of the Patriot Act.  It had one D sponsor and dozens of R sponsors.  It passed in  2002 when Bush and even his misadventures in Iraq were incredibly popular.

    The name was stupid, but all it did was consolidate a bunch of services into one agency, including Secret Service, Coast Guard, TSA, Customs, FEMA, etc.

  323. 323.

    Citizen Alan

    October 13, 2022 at 5:02 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: Every GOP President of my lifetime has been worse than the one before (that cretin Ford doesn’t count). I fully expect the next one to be worse than Trump.

  324. 324.

    WereBear

    October 13, 2022 at 5:04 pm

    @Ruckus:  Well said!

  325. 325.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2022 at 5:04 pm

    Re “Trump Organization II”, a typical abusive Phoenix company. Wikipedia. Why he would expect it to work vs seizure is not clear.

    A phoenix company is a successful commercial entity which has emerged from the collapse of another through insolvency.
    …
    A phoenix company may be classified either “innocent”/”bona fide” or abusive.
    The primary identifiers of abusive phoenix activity have been described as “a deliberate and often cyclical misuse of the corporate form accompanied by a fraudulent scheme to evade creditors”.[5] Several common characteristics have been identified as indicating harmful phoenix activity:[6]
    – the failed entity is formed with only a nominal share capital
    – the failed entity is under-capitalized
    – the directors/managers/controllers of the failed and successor company are the same
    – the failed entity is trading whilst insolvent
    – assets of the failed company are depleted shortly before the cessation of business
    – the failed company makes preferential payments to key creditors to assure supply to the successor company
    – the failed entity was operated to evade prior liabilities
    – the successor company operates in the same industry
    – the successor company trades with the same or similar name
    – the successor company commences trading immediately prior to, or within 12 months of, the cessation of the failed entity
    – assets of the failed company are transferred at below market value to the successor company
    – many of the employees of the failed company are re-employed by the successor company

  326. 326.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:05 pm

    @MomSense:

    Homeland Security Act of 2002.  House version passed 295-132. Senate version was 90-9.

    Senate No votes were:

    Akaka (D-HI)
    Byrd (D-WV)
    Feingold (D-WI)
    Hollings (D-SC)
    Inouye (D-HI)
    Jeffords (I-VT)
    Kennedy (D-MA)
    Levin (D-MI)
    Sarbanes (D-MD)

    Actions – H.R.5005 – 107th Congress (2001-2002): Homeland Security Act of 2002 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

  327. 327.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 5:05 pm

    @MomSense: Thanks. I apparently needed the refresher. I spent my 20s damaging my memory.

    @Baud: You know, I usually try to keep it within ten years of my own age, but old uncle Joe ain’t lookin too bad.

  328. 328.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 5:06 pm

    Ruckus: He was president of this country in name badge only.

    Sadly, that’s not really true. He was duly elected by the corrupt, undemocratic but legal system in place, and he did tremendous damage to this country, which wouldn’t have been possible if he hadn’t been the real president. I don’t disagree with your sentiments, but he was, and could be again, the president. A sickening thought.

  329. 329.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:06 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Bush I was not really worse than Reagan.

  330. 330.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 5:10 pm

    @TriassicSands: I don’t know the answer. My guess is that they were discovering more and more malfeasance during their investigation and wanted to have the facts as complete as possible before issuing that challenge — in case he surprised everyone and accepted.

    They also probably knew they’d never get any useful information from the sumbitch even if he did appear (which he almost certainly wouldn’t have) so they timed it for the end so that loose cannon couldn’t fuck with their scheduled hearings?

  331. 331.

    Citizen Alan

    October 13, 2022 at 5:13 pm

    @Baud: He was certainly a continuation of Reagan. His abuse of the pardon process ensured that there would be no prosecution of Iran-Contra. He was a contemptible little man of no character who personally coined the term voodoo economics and then cravenly embraced it in order to become Veep. And when Thurgood Marshall stepped down, he scoured the nation to find the absolute worst self-loathing black man he could plausibly nominate to SCOTUS to replace him.

  332. 332.

    Craig

    October 13, 2022 at 5:14 pm

    @Obvious Russian Troll: I always wondered why does TFG get to decide where Ivana is buried in the first place? They haven’t been married for decades. WTF?

  333. 333.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:14 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Bush was awful for those reasons and more.  But I still don’t think he was worse than Reagan.

  334. 334.

    Cameron

    October 13, 2022 at 5:14 pm

    @Bill Arnold: Shouldn’t a Trump tree be watered with the urine of patriots?

  335. 335.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:15 pm

    @Craig: I don’t know the answer, but if she didn’t make plans, her next of kin would be the kids, no?  And Trump controls the kids.

  336. 336.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 5:16 pm

    @Citizen Alan: This is why I prefer my Republicans foaming at the mouth. To this day I still say Romney would have been worse than Trump. He lied just as much and the polite demeanor would have helped him get away with it.

  337. 337.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 5:16 pm

    @Baud: Agreed. Also, GHWB only had half as much time as Reagan did to screw us. Somehow, Trump managed to be even more horrible than GWB with only one term, which is quite an…accomplishment.

  338. 338.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2022 at 5:17 pm

    @Betty Cracker: If they had gone after Trump right away it would have reeked of a political maneuver.

    Now, they have spent 4 months having REPUBLICANS paint the picture that Trump was smack dab in the middle of all of it, the whole time.

    Trump was NEVER going to come before the committee.  To me, the timing looks good with the elections coming up.

  339. 339.

    Captain C

    October 13, 2022 at 5:19 pm

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: I still think he would have been at best a 3rd rate used car dealer in southeastern Queens, with at least one fraud conviction on his record and possibly a jail sentence for assault as well.  He still would have been mobbed up, but at a much lower level (think one of the hangers-on from Goodfellas).

  340. 340.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:19 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Trump’s saving grace vis a vis GWB was foreign wars.  And most of that, I think, was simply a function of public sentiment, and the GOP base specifically, being tired of foreign entanglements generally.

  341. 341.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 5:19 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s possible that they were concerned that the subpoena and ensuing battle would distract attention from the other hearings.

    In the end, the committee won’t matter as much (if at all) as what the DoJ does. If they don’t indict Trump, there will be no accountability. That will conceivably make the committee’s work more historically important. But without accountability for Trump, it’s hard to see how we survive as a democracy — unless people who should be voting for Democrats begin to become informed and actually vote. It’s difficult to be optimistic. But time will tell.

  342. 342.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2022 at 5:27 pm

    @WaterGirl: Good point!

    @TriassicSands: Yep.

  343. 343.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    @WaterGirl: If they had gone after Trump right away it would have reeked of a political maneuver.

    Let’s face it, no matter what the timing, Trump supporters would always characterize it as political.

    And Trump was always at the center of the insurrection and, thus, the most important witness of all.

    So, I agree that they probably shouldn’t have subpoenaed him too early, but they had sufficient damning testimony against Trump a couple of months ago to justify a subpoena. After all, today’s hearing was mostly a recap of previous testimony.

  344. 344.

    prostratedragon

    October 13, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    @Betty Cracker: ​ Fits with something I’ve noticed, which is that they’ve tried (and succeeded) to avoid slideshows, and that one is an absorbing state for too many processes.

  345. 345.

    prostratedragon

    October 13, 2022 at 5:32 pm

    @Captain C:  “He still would have been mobbed up, but at a much lower level (think one of the hangers-on from Goodfellas).”

    I think his father and father’s connections saved his life at some point.

  346. 346.

    JWR

    October 13, 2022 at 5:32 pm

    @Baud:

    @Citizen Alan: Bush was awful for those reasons and more.  But I still don’t think he was worse than Reagan.

    The way I saw it, Reagan was horrible for the country in  a transformative way, whereas Shrub I fully embraced the machinery Reagan put into place. (Does that make any sense?) Shorter: They were both AWFUL presidents. No comparison needed.

  347. 347.

    Sure Lurkalot

    October 13, 2022 at 5:33 pm

    @gene108:

    I imagine it’s hard to debate a liar… don’t want to amplify the lies by refuting/responding (just) to the lies. Maybe a good tactic would be when it’s your turn after a lie fest, face your opponent and say with dripping sarcasm, “what a creative response, maybe you should be a novelist instead of running for office” and then proceed to face the audience and state your own position/accomplishment/idea.

  348. 348.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:34 pm

    @JWR:

    No comparison needed.

    Sure, but this discussion started with a comparison about how each GOP president was worse than then previous one (except Ford).

  349. 349.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 5:34 pm

    @Kropacetic: No. No, Romney would not have been worse than Trump.

  350. 350.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 5:38 pm

    @zhena gogolia: In my mind “very nearly as bad with more intelligence and leeway to act” is worse.

    But then, we’re deep in counterfactual territory here.

  351. 351.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 5:39 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    It’s not easy to measure the relative awfulness of individual GOP presidents, but I agree, Trump was the worst ever. Romney’s potential for damage would probably have been based on his less threatening demeanor and greater apparent competence, which could have gotten him a second term.

  352. 352.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2022 at 5:40 pm

    @Kropacetic:

    One really can’t get worse than insurrection.

  353. 353.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 5:45 pm

    @TriassicSands: Depends how we address the insurrection. If sufficient accountability arises for insurrectionists and it’s never attempted again, the harm there would pale in comparison to the economic abuses a Mitt Romney would have allowed.

    In fact, as far as I’m concerned,  Republicans have been in a constant state of insurrection trying to supplant our government with favored members of the private sector for 40 years.

  354. 354.

    Baud

    October 13, 2022 at 5:45 pm

    @TriassicSands: There’s the inquisition, but no one expects that.

  355. 355.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 5:45 pm

    @Kropacetic: Romney would not have been taking orders from Putler.

  356. 356.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 5:48 pm

    @zhena gogolia: That is one good point about him. In fact sometimes I wonder if his debate statement about Russia being our biggest threat was a veiled warning about Russian influence in his own party.

  357. 357.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 5:53 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    I wasn’t being literal or speaking legalize.

    I was commenting on his regard for the office and for every citizen who wasn’t in that crowd attacking police or ransacking the capital building. He is a shit stain on our politics, our country and really shows what little regard he has for anyone who isn’t attempting to steal everything not tied down.

  358. 358.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 5:54 pm

    @Ruckus: ​
      I don’t disagree. And I also think that 1. he did plead guilty rather than put everyone through the horror of a trial, so that’s something and 2. the defense raised some legitimate questions about his mental health and psychiatric history. He’s not getting off easy. He’s a young guy and — if someone doesn’t give him the ol’ Dahmer treatment on the inside before then — is going to be looking at the world through steel bars from a small, cinder-block room for the next 50-60 years.

  359. 359.

    Ruckus

    October 13, 2022 at 5:55 pm

    @gene108:

    I understand that is the normal course. But I have had an IV in the same vein so I know it’s possible.

  360. 360.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 5:56 pm

    @Kropacetic: Me too.

  361. 361.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 6:00 pm

    @zhena gogolia: That said, if a President is going to turn us over to oligarchs, the particular nationality of the oligarchs doesn’t concern me too much.

  362. 362.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 6:02 pm

    @Kropacetic: Here we part ways.

  363. 363.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 6:04 pm

    @zhena gogolia: If the end result is always a few people take all the money and allows abuse against all the usual communities, what’s the difference where they were born?

  364. 364.

    jonas

    October 13, 2022 at 6:11 pm

    @Kropacetic: ​
      Oh, please. Romney would have done a bunch of tax cutting and deregulating and been a smarmy dick about a lot of stuff, but he wouldn’t have come close to doing 1/1000th of the outrageous corrupt and criminal things Trump did, from trying to shake down a foreign leader using Congressionally-approved military aid and publicly saying he believed Vladimir Putin over his own IC, to trying to fill his entire executive branch with corrupt, unqualified shills, and launching an attempted putsch against Congress. He also would probably not have suggested nuking hurricanes, bombing drug labs in Mexico, or exchanged “love letters” with Kim Jong Un.

  365. 365.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    @Kropacetic: You do not know what you are talking about.

  366. 366.

    Ksmiami

    October 13, 2022 at 6:15 pm

    @Citizen Alan: the next GOP president will be the last US president as the country will splinter.

  367. 367.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 6:32 pm

    @jonas: Sometimes I think Trump did us a favor frequently crossing that line into criminality. The goals were the same but without that habitual line stepping, a lot of Americans wouldn’t have been shaken from their torpor.

    Romney would have appointed plausibly qualified corrupt assholes who would have been a lot more successful using or agencies to make money and abuse people.

    Romney would have made the Bush play and only selectively discuss IC assessments to support his predetermined conclusions.

    Trump’s idiotic ideas never bore fruit, but Romney was the one who demonstrated that you can lie about anything, all the time,  and not suffer any blowback.

     

    @zhena gogolia: So in Putin’s Russia they engage in legal persecution and encourage random acts of violence against minorities and queer folk. Republicans do the same as far as their power allows.

    In Russia, industry and the government interact to keep a small group of people on top. We’re getting there as fast as Republicans can take us.

    None of these people have any loyalty to any nation or anything greater than themselves. Abuse is abuse and perpetrators of the same acts are all equal in my book.

  368. 368.

    zhena gogolia

    October 13, 2022 at 6:35 pm

    @Kropacetic: You do not know what you are talking about.

  369. 369.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 6:44 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Well, do enlighten me. I’ve laid out my arguments and repeating

    You do not know what you are talking about.

    is not constructive.

  370. 370.

    Kropacetic

    October 13, 2022 at 6:51 pm

    @Kropacetic: Just to add, I’d point to Mitch McConnell as an example of what can be accomplished with Romney’s shameless dishonesty and relative competence. He’s been worse for this country than any President.

  371. 371.

    HinTN

    October 13, 2022 at 7:25 pm

    @Geminid:

    Elaine Luria certainly can use it. She flipped the coastal Virginia 2nd CD in 2018, but a tough opponent and a redrawn district make her reelection this year a heavy lift.

    Just finished writing postcards for Rep. Luria. 30 for her and 30 for Matt Cartwright in PA. Maybe I’ll ask MazeDancer for more names.

  372. 372.

    CapnMubbers

    October 13, 2022 at 7:32 pm

    @karen marie: “Harrison Bergeron” by Kurt Vonnegut

  373. 373.

    tybee

    October 13, 2022 at 9:56 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

     

    thanks!

  374. 374.

    Gvg

    October 13, 2022 at 10:37 pm

    @TriassicSands: they had to set him up first. Pre prove all his lines are lies. Cut off all his weasel evasions and trap him so everyone with an IQ above 10 and a small attention span will know he is lying when he does. Prevent him from lying successfully and make him look terrible.

  375. 375.

    Another Scott

    October 13, 2022 at 11:16 pm

    @Gvg: +1

    E.g., calling TFG before calling Ginni Thomas would not have made sense.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  376. 376.

    Paul in KY

    October 14, 2022 at 9:25 am

    @The Moar You Know: Or be some kind of giant rat-thing inside his human suit.

  377. 377.

    Paul in KY

    October 14, 2022 at 9:27 am

    @Alison Rose 💙🌻💛: DeSatanis might be worse.

  378. 378.

    Paul in KY

    October 14, 2022 at 9:41 am

    @Citizen Alan: I don’t think Bushius I was worse than Reagan. My only quibble.

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