We didn’t watch the DeSantis – Crist debate last night. We banked our votes for Crist via return mail a while back, and we heard enough of DeSantis’s droning, adenoidal voice to last several lifetimes before and after the recent hurricane, so we took a hard pass on hearing more of it.
Also, the race depresses me because I suspect Crist will come up short again in Florida, even if the party does better than expected elsewhere. (Don’t @ me — it’s been my lived experience in gubernatorial elections for this entire fucking century.)
All that said, I did watch a clip or two of the debate on Twitter and read takes from several frustrated theater critics masquerading as political pundits, and outside the echo chambers, it’s obvious why DeSantis only agreed to one debate: he sucks at debating. I mean, look at this asshole:
i am just catching up on the DeSantis-Crist debate and OMG
Crist: “Yes or no, Ron. Will you serve a full four year term if you’re reelected governor of Florida? It’s not a tough question. It’s a fair question. He won’t tell ya.”
DeSantis: *looks like he’s malfunctioning* pic.twitter.com/y1fnua6ZQj
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 25, 2022
I’ve seen that animatronic glitch before — it appears whenever DeSantis wanders outside the con-media bubble and gets asked a tough question. He’s a thin-skinned prick, as is his bloated orange meat-sack mentor, but DeSantis lacks Tangerine Baal’s repertoire of dumb schoolyard taunts, so he glitches out.
Imagine what a Chris Christie (or even the original orange fart cloud himself) would do with that on a GOP presidential primary debate stage. So, maybe those of you who think DeSantis is a Beltway pundit flavor of the month who will flop on the national stage like Scott Walker or Tim Pawlenty are right. Here’s hoping.
* * *
To follow up on yesterday’s school shooting in St. Louis, a 16-year-old girl was killed, as was 61-year-old health and PE teacher Jean Kuczka. The teacher’s daughter said she was told her mom stepped in front of the gunman to protect the kids.
Such a senseless loss. I think it’s understandable that people tend to focus on the children who die in these horrible mass shootings — children have their whole lives ahead of them, and the little ones are so innocent. But we should take time to grieve the slaughter of our educators too.
In the Post-Dispatch account, Ms. Kuczka sounds like a wonderful person and a dedicated teacher. She had a husband and five kids, and her last child had recently fledged the nest. Her daughter said Ms. Kuczka was looking forward to retirement.
Teachers almost always die in these attacks — while filling a difficult and necessary role, often for low pay and poor working conditions that now include getting screamed at and having their character impugned by hard-right political operatives pretending to be concerned parents.
Would a “Moms for Liberty” operative take a bullet for a kid? I think they’d be more likely to use a child as a human shield.
Rest in peace, Ms. Kuczka. You deserved so much better.
Open thread.
I Voted Early
zhena gogolia
RIP, Ms. Kuczka.
Thanks for the clip. De Santis is so horrible.
Almost Retired
DeSantis called Crist a “worn out old donkey,” in a failed attempt at being Trumpy. “If I’m a worn out old donkey, you’re a fucking bloated ass,” Crist replied, in my dreams.
Jackie
I watched the debate and laughed out loud when Crist asked DeathSantis if he would commit to governing four years. DeathSantis looked everywhere except at Crist or the Faux-auditioning moderator as he made grimacing faces while not saying a word.
I hope enough Floridians watched and realize DeathSantis has absolutely no intention of being governor for another four years, and vote for a full term governor!🤞🏻🤞🏻
zhena gogolia
Just from that clip and a couple of others, Crist seems much more high-energy and articulate than his opponent.
Baud
I can’t recall any Republican getting punished for not committing to serve their entire term. I only have vague recollections of it happening to Dems, so I don’t feel super strongly about this particular double standard.
Cameron
I find the disconnect between county-level governance and state and national offices here sort of puzzling. I see stories that Florida is becoming an increasingly red state, and if one goes by a governor (DeSantis), my area’s US rep (Ol’ Vern), US Senators (one who’s figured out how to exist in sunlight outside his coffin and the other who appears to be made out of gelatin), this seems true. But I genuinely like living in Manatee County – good public transit, great library system, good election/voting setup, walking distance to most everything I need. I can be the only person on the bus or in Publix wearing a mask, and nobody gives me a second look. Olde Fart Acres, where I live, has a mix of all types of people and AFAIK everybody (sort of) gets along. Confess that I don’t socialize here much – the only senior activity I enjoy is drinking, and I’m not supposed to do that anymore.
lowtechcyclist
Unfortunately I know Floridians who are perfectly happy with the idea of re-electing DeSantis so that he can immediately hit the trail to campaign for President. Even more unfortunately, I’m related by marriage to a bunch of them.
Baud
@Cameron: Not surprising. The U.S. is big and complex and most people just go about their daily lives. The Internet has made the U.S. and the world seem a lot smaller to those who pay attention to it.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: I also think he would lose zero votes for simply lying and saying “Of course” and then going back on it.
rikyrah
Journalist Greg Palast has a documentary out that I saw last week.
It’s called Vigilante: Georgia’s Voter Suppression Hitman
In case you’re wondering who the title is talking about, it’s Georgia Governor Brian Kemp.
There was a lot in the documentary that I already knew, because I have known about the lowdown voter suppressing tactics of Kemp for years. That wasn’t a surprise to me.
I appreciated the details, and making it clear that these were deliberate choices by Kemp, and nothing just happened. And, that his voter suppression tactics are rooted in the dark racist history of the Confederacy and the failure of Reconstruction.
What got to me. What hit the bottom of my BLACK soul, was putting a name and face to what Kemp has done.
There was an Elder. Had to be in her late 80’s, Early 90’s. She came to vote in 2020, and found herself a victim of Kemp’s voting purges. A woman who had probably been voting longer than I have been alive, found that there was NO RECORD of her. NONE. It wasn’t that her voting status had been changed to Cancelled. She was ERASED from the voting rolls. Her granddaughter, who looked to be in her mid-30’s, to early 40’s, was recounting how she had grown up going to vote with her grandmother. That was something that they did. The civics lesson that her grandmother was trying to teach her. And, when she spoke about how her record had vanished. Like all the times she had went with her grandmother, Kemp was saying that it was part of her imagination. That she and her grandmother didn’t really do that. It really HURT seeing the pain of our Elder. I know what our people went through in order to get the right to vote, and to see the pain that a piece of trash like Kemp is causing, just angers me.
There was another voter. A military man, based in California, but, was exercising his right to vote in Georgia. They showed the muthaphucka who CHALLENGED this man’s voting status, thus denying him the right to vote. Palast even brought them face to face, and of course, the muthaphucka couldn’t even apologize to our Major who was denied the franchise. Man serving this country, and these people challenged his right to vote. A good percentage of those in the Military avail themselves of the Federal Post Card Application, which is the application for Military and Overseas voters. Our people in the Military can vote from their last registration before they were shipped out on assignment. They have that right – PERIOD. And, to see this man be denied his right to the franchise was enraging.
I want people to grasp that these people, due to the Bills passed after the 2020 Election, can challenge THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AT ONE TIME. They don’t have to actually have to go to the Polling Place and challenge them, one on one – though, they will do that. They can challenge THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE- THAT THEY HAVE NEVER MET.
And….
This is happening right NOW!!!!
Saw a tweet from a Morehouse Medical Student this past weekend, who went to vote and was unable to because her voter registration had been challenged.
cain
Voters don’t really give a shit and would be happy to see him jump to the national stage – maybe he’ll self combust there and that will be the end of it. He’ll be fighting with Marco who probably keenly watched that debate looking for oppo research. We’ll see glitches and hard water drinking during those presidential debates for sure. The voters will then be looking for the next GOP star that DeSantis will bless – probably any number of political flunkies. I vote for the secretary of state, who will help him get re-elected.
ETA – #11! It’s a very special number. Love love love love it!
geg6
I’m sorry, Betty, but I cannot fathom Florida. I couldn’t fathom the place back when they still elected Democrats and I certainly can’t now. All I know is, although PA has its crazies, FL is ground zero for craziness I’ll never understand.
Anotherlurker
Since this is an open thread.
Some of you may remember that, a few days ago, I posted about the devastating news that I received about Addie, my beloved Golden Retriever. She was diagnosed with a mammary tumor that the Vet thought had already metastasized . I was just waiting for the results of 3 tests, blood, x-ray and needle aspiration.
Well, I’m a little confused now. The blood and x-ray results are in and they are unremarkable. Blood results are all normal range for a dog her age and the Radiologist’s report noted nothing remarkable. I don’t how to react to this news.
Is it good news?
We are waiting for the results of the needle aspiration.
Bill Arnold
@UncleEbeneezer:
Sort of odd. Like he knows that lying is a sin and that this glitched him.
WV Blondie
Your comment made me realize with a shock that Stephen King might have to rewrite the ending of The Dead Zone.
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
I believe it was Hawley that did something like that.
lowtechcyclist
Doesn’t matter if the latest shooting is in a school or a shopping mall or a disco, we need to stop being a nation where people are allowed to possess weapons of mass slaughter.
Unfortunately, the Bogus Scotus stands in the way. Even if we hold the House and pick up a couple of Senate seats, I doubt that we’ve got a Senate majority that’s ready to expand the Supreme Court.
But it’s insane that we have active shooter drills and DNA kits instead of simply Hoovering up the guns. We’ve got way too many morally insane people, unfortunately.
lee
I got a report from early voting here in a red but trending purple county in Texas:
First there were more folks early voting than I have ever seen at this place including Presidential elections. There was not a line yet but it was close. They also had twice as many ‘intake’ stations going on than usual.
Usually my daughter (22) is the youngest person in the room voting by 30 years. Today there were more young adults than old fogeys and a significant number of those young adults were women (more than half).
As we were leaving some old fat guy was walking in (surprisingly not in a scooter) and said something to another old fat guy walking out. All I caught was the ‘Trump 2024’ at the end. When he turned the corner to go in he stopped cold.
sdhays
@rikyrah: That’s awful! Are there any penalties for making false challenges? Or should
Democratsconcerned citizens start making frivolous challenges all over the rural parts of the state to try to force a detente?rikyrah
@sdhays:
Think that we should go into these Red Counties and start challenging 50-75% of their voters.
Period.
Jackie
@lee: What an encouraging sight!
And, your fat old man’s double-take gave me joy and a laugh!😁
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
We’ve got way too many morally insane and morally corrupt people, unfortunately.
Added a couple of words for you…
BenCisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️
BWAHAAHAAHAA!
Cameron
@geg6: I believe the recipe is Deep-Fried South basted with ’70s-style California Crazy Sauce.
apocalipstick
@Baud: Oh, yeah. Hawley was elected Missouri AG and was running for Senate before he finished his swearing-in.
Matt McIrvin
Regardless of what happens nationally on Election Day, I can take comfort that at least Massachusetts is extremely likely to get another respite from the Nice Republican governance we keep electing, for reasons I only partially understand, to the state executive. Maybe a long respite, if the state party has decided to go full Trumpster forever.
apocalipstick
Jean Kuczka was an alum of Missouri State University, formerly Southwest Missouri State University, in Springfield. It produces more teachers than any other school in the state. My wife is an MSU alum (taught K-1 for 31 years), and I attended there (taught for 25). But someone’s right to own a gun trumped her, what, ‘right to life’?
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
👍
Scout211
In the little seen debate on Sunday between Governor Newsom and another guy (during the 49ers game!) the other guy thought he’d catch Newsom in a gotcha question about whether he would remain in the governorship for all four years. Newsom looked him in the eye and stated yes.
Do we believe him? Meh. Maybe 50/50. But he was smart enough to say yes instead of hedging or looking like a scared rabbit like DeSantis did.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
OT – Goddammit.
You always tell your lawyer what you have going on in a custody case.
If you’re 4 months into a custody/support case on your 8 month old child and you’ve learned that your child’s father (who finally just got tagged with process) has failed to answer in 20 days, you don’t respond to your lawyer’s happy announcement that he’s moving for a default hearing with this:
WaterGirl
@Anotherlurker: You love Addie so much, you must have whiplash. Terrible news, surprising news, now wondering whether you will get good news or be flung back into the depths of loss for your beloved girl. Hugs.
lowtechcyclist
@Ruckus: Eh, a distinction without a difference. Anyone who’s willing to put up with frequent mass slaughter events because of which side their bread is buttered on is morally insane, afaiac.
WaterGirl
I saw the last 15 minutes of the Crist debate with the other guy, and I thought Crist did a much better job. For what that’s worth!
Gravenstone
@Almost Retired: I’d have liked something along the lines of turning towards the audience/cameras and saying “C’mon folks. We all know Ron is only renting the Governor’s mansion as a stepping stone towards higher aspirations. He doesn’t care about the state of Florida, he certainly doesn’t care about you. He just wants power. More power. His daily abuses of people throughout this state should warn us all about who he really is and what he’s really after.”
Sister Golden Bear
Just another day…. Proud Boys and Neo-Nazis attacked a drag queen story hour in Oregon,” (featuring an 11-years-old doing the reading), requiring riot police to get them to back off. Meanwhile another drag queen story hour in Florida was cancelled after death threats from Neo-Nazis.
Anotherlurker
@WaterGirl: That is exactly what I’m wondering about, WG.
The Moar You Know
My wife is a teacher and I tell her: I need you too. You run. The way this district has treated you your entire career, fuck them. You owe these people nothing, and I need you.
We have both noted the silence surrounding the teachers that always get shot during these attacks. Remember when all the retail employees were “front-line heroes” during COVID? Me neither. And teachers who die protecting students rate less than that. As we saw after Uvalde, hell, some of them get blamed for the shooting.
geg6
@Cameron:
That probably does explain it. I have no affinity for anything “South.” If it was up to me, I’d move the Mason Dixon Line down to about midway through Virginia and never cross it again. The only place I’ve ever liked in the deep South is Savannah and I can live without it if needed. Even as kid, ignorant of most history and politics, it never felt “right” to me when we visited our cousins’ lake house in North Carolina. It’s an alien world to me. I never got the same vibe at their actual home in Williamsburg. Perhaps it’s something my dad implanted in my head. He was stationed in several places in the South during WWII and he hated everything about it. My dad was big Neil Simon fan and he refused to watch “Biloxi Blues” because he was stationed in Biloxi for a while and said he never wanted to see or hear of the place ever again. He didn’t really explain why, but I suspect Jim Crow had a lot to do with it. My dad was a pretty chill guy and to hear him say such things was pretty shocking.
NotMax
Open Thread?
Amazon shatters the space-time continuum.
Awaiting already tardy arrival (fingers and toes crossed) of several needed but far from crucial items. Checked shipping status yesterday (the 24th) at 5:45 p.m.,, at which time was greeted with “Package departed an Amazon facility at Kailua-Kona, HI at 7:51 p.m. on October 24.”
So it registered as having left two hours into the future from when status was checked. Impressive feat, that. Checking anew today has brought no further info.
The Moar You Know
@Anotherlurker: that’s the ballgame right there. I wish you and Addie luck. I am a Golden parent as well. They are like no other dog – or any other creature, including humans – I have ever experienced.
Soprano2
OT – two stories of note from WaPo
Remote or in-person, learning loss was about the same for students during the past two years. That’s a gift article link. So all the fights about whether in-person or remote was better for student learning seem to be a wash, although I have to agree that for other reasons in-person is definitely better overall.
Social Security whistleblowers sidelined by TFG-appointee head of SSA IG office That’s also a gift link. they were trying to bill poor SS recipients hundreds of thousands of dollars for mistakes! The damage TFG appointees have done to the government continues.
WaterGirl
@Gravenstone: Did you watch the debate? Crist did not mince words. I don’t think this is your father’s
OldsmobileCharlie Crist.lowtechcyclist
@NotMax: What, you expect your packages to survive having shattered the space-time continuum?
WaterGirl
@Anotherlurker: I know, big hugs.
Baud
@NotMax: That’s what you get for ordering flux capacitors from Amazon.
Suzanne
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Are you fucking kidding me?! Good Lord.
As for Florida…. I don’t get it.
As for the polls, I try to be clear-eyed and expectations-manage-y. I find cheerleaderish optimism both dumb and insulting. I have no idea what to expect here. We’ll find out.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I thinking winning the presidential election is besides the point for DeSantis and company. They want DeStantis is be the nominee so he becomes the head of the GoP and pushes out the Former Guy and gets control of all that money.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Florida Man does remind me of those stoners I grew up with.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lee:
Here in NE Ohio yesterday when I mailed my postcards out at the post office, I saw a young woman, perhaps younger than myself, dropping some postcards off. I don’t go to the PO that often and, but I can only imagine the postcards had something to do with Postcards to Voters or something like it. Most people these days, let alone people my age and younger, don’t write postcards anymore
RSA
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
“It means I’m a robot with a mechanical uterus. Didn’t I tell you?”
lee
@Jackie: I’ll be honest. I did a double take when I walked in. It was that surprising.
Scout211
The Progressive Caucus withdrew their letter.
Betty Cracker
@Cameron: My working theory was that a chemical reaction caused by mixing sun block with mosquito repellent is responsible for the madness, but your theory is just as plausible. I am so not an optimist, especially about Florida, but I do think the growth of our cities will tip this state blue eventually. It will take much longer than it should because Miami. I may not live to see it. But I’m hopeful it will happen if democracy survives.
laura
@Scout211: Do we believe him? Meh. Maybe 50/50.
Why are you participating in the erasure of my former Senator and current Vice President? I have a standing offer of a boot to the face for misogynoir for interested participants.
Mousebumples
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yay! I’m glad you got some postcards done. Would love to see you at our postcarding party tonight, if you can make it!
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
I have been shot at twice, once while walking down the street after dark in South Carolina. It was very close, luckily they missed, passed by me on my right side, the shot came from behind. This was in very early 1971. I ran, rather fast for as long as I could. And yes I knew what a shot going by sounds like as I also have stepped off the bottom porch step just as a “friend” fired a shot to scare the two of us who had been in the house when he stepped out. This was in 1969. Had I not stepped down exactly at the right moment I would have taken a .357 magnum hollow point just above the ear, fired from about 6 ft away. I wouldn’t have been alive to know what it felt like had it hit. I lost any desire for guns or hunting, at that moment. Three years later when I had to carry a loaded .45 pistol in the Navy I asked what the order was if I felt I had to use the gun. I was told the order was “Shoot to kill.” The only thing I have left for guns is respect for their ability to kill anything any and every time they are fired. And I had that before any of these events. They have no place in a society for citizens to openly carry them because their only use is to threaten and kill. That is what they are designed and built for.
Soprano2
Ms. Kuzka has a SWMO link. She’s the same age I am:
Ohio Mom
@Anotherlurker: Speaking from personal experience, there is nothing more agonizing than waiting for test results about a possible cancer.
Different medical tests reveal different things — think of the old folk tale about the blind men and the elephant. No one test gives can give the full picture, that’s one of medical technology’s limitations.
It stinks. Take good care of yourself, remember to breathe, the doctors are doing what they can.
catclub
@RSA: yeah. Vitro is glass
rikyrah
I dunno about a blue tsunami in Iowa, but, I don’t think it’s ever been this close for Grassley.
Erica Marsh (@ericareport) tweeted at 3:38 PM on Mon, Oct 24, 2022:
BREAKING: Chuck Grassley is in a statistical tie with his Democratic opponent for Senate. Iowa is going to go blue! Blue tsunami incoming!!!
(https://twitter.com/ericareport/status/1584645444126187520?t=zhcXxXrEXt0gsFG5W808lw&s=03)
Cameron
@geg6: Some places can surprise you. Many years ago I went to a 4-day conference in Mobile, AL. Had a good time, but I don’t know that 4 days as a visitor gives a lot of insight into anything. I guess my travels are sort of the reverse of yours: after 45 years in the Greater Philadelphia area, I moved here to FL in 2016. Will probably be staying, even if the country does go bug-fuck insane. (Though I will keep my Old-Country Parachute ready at hand if needed.)
Origuy
Earthquake in the San Jose area a few minutes ago. Looks to be 5.0 centered south of Lick Observatory in a remote area in the east of Santa Clara County. Shook for a fairly long time.
No damage here at my place.
Baud
@rikyrah: 👍
Steppanhammer
@Origuy:
Lurker here, but in Oakland. My phone (Android) buzzed 5-10 seconds before I felt anything with a Google quake alert to “Expect light shakes, estimated M5.0 approximately 47 miles away”. Shakes were very light indeed here. Cool alert!
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: I linked to a Guardian story earlier about these challenges in Georgia–they talked to someone who had gone to an early-voting location to find her registration had been caught up in one of these challenges, and all the poll workers would tell her was to vote with a provisional ballot, which she (wisely) did not do. The Post story framed it as “the poll workers were under-trained” but I have my doubts that’s the real story
edit: Guardian, not WaPo: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/22/georgia-early-voting-obstacles-new-election-law
Origuy
@Steppanhammer: Interesting. I’m about 11 miles away from the epicenter. Felt like two separate shakes.
geg6
@Cameron:
I cannot imagine living there and have never had the desire. I like having four seasons (though winter could be shorter now that I’m an old). I also cannot bear a southern accent. Drives me nuts. Again, I have no idea why. Other accents don’t bother me.
Dangerman
Did Ron show up in his white Nancy Sinatra “These Boots Are Made For Walking” boots?
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Origuy:
Typical – Earthquakes always want to upstage the World Series
Scout211
@laura: I’m not sure what your message is here. Or who you are addressing.
Cameron
@geg6: One of my cousins in Pittsburgh is not only down with four seasons, she requires snow in the winter. A shortage of which they’re unlikely to have in the Iron City in the foreseeable future. As far as disliking accents, that’s certainly a personal prerogative and doesn’t reflect badly on either you or the speaker. All my siblings live in TX, and have picked up (to varying degrees) local accents.
Dangerman
@Steppanhammer: Was that the MyShake app?
sdhays
@rikyrah: If Grassley wins, there’ve been a lot of suggestions that his big plan is to gift his seat to his shitty grandson. I wonder if this has soured many Iowans.
Anyway, if Iowa does indeed finally
kick Grassley to the curbgive Grassley more time with his great-great grandchildren, I’ll stop calling them “East Dakota”.lowtechcyclist
@Ruckus:
Which I’m sure is two times too many. I’m glad to say I’ve never had a close encounter with a moving bullet.
Agreed. Open carry is of the devil, as far as I’m concerned. There is absolutely no reason that it should be legal to openly carry firearms in public.
Steppanhammer
@Dangerman:
I think that’s what it said, but it’s not something I’ve actually installed myself, so must be part of the OS package.
NotMax
@Cameron
Thankfully, Vivaldi never emigrated to Florida.
:)
Matt McIrvin
@geg6: I miss Southern accents sometimes, even if many (most) other aspects of the culture drove me insane when I was growing up in Virginia. There’s a guy on YouTube who repairs old video games and pinball machines at a shop in South Carolina and sometimes I watch his videos just because his accent takes me back.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mousebumples:
So am I! It felt good doing them and made me feel like I was making a difference. And I absolutely will show up : )
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Speaking of assholes, Ted Cruz received a warm Bronx cheer”
Cameron
@NotMax: The One Season, briefest classical masterwork of all time.
Steeplejack
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Good job on getting the postcards out! 👍
Betty Cracker
@Matt McIrvin: I lived in Boston for a few years, and it was weird being the person everyone else thought had an accent. For whatever reason, I find all accents — foreign and domestic — charming. My sister-in-law’s family are from Jamaica, and I especially loved her parents’ accents (the kids moved to the U.S. when very young, so they sounded like regular old Long Island-based Americans).
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
What part of Virginia did you grow up in? I’ve hit all the corners, and a few places in between.
cain
@The Moar You Know:
My wife is a school teacher, and I know absolutely she would put herself in harms way to protect her kids. It has less to do with the school and how they are treated – kids are life for my girl. She could never see any of them harmed. It’s why she’s one in the first place.
That said, she’s savage, I’d be fucking scared of any shooter if my wife decided to go after him. She will end him. She will murder him in cold blood and not blink twice and walk away.
WaterGirl
SA:
Tonight is our second postcard writing party. You can:
– join the thread to write postcards
– join the thread to share music links for entertainment
– join the ZOOM to help provide sparkling conversation for folks who write postcards (just audio or video, your choice)
Send me an email if you want the zoom link.
Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist: Chantilly, which is NoVa but was actually pretty rural and super-Republican when we moved in, to one of the first big suburban developments there–of course it’s tech office park and strip mall land now. And then I went to college at William and Mary which is immediately adjoining Colonial Williamsburg.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Steeplejack:
Thanks!
cain
@rikyrah: I don’t believe any poll. That goes for both good and bad. Let’s focus winning through GOTV and close the deal.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Matt McIrvin:
I visited Colonial Williamsburg on vacation when I was a little kid. It was a pretty interesting place to visit with a lot of history
Sure Lurkalot
I can hardly look at DeSantis…puffy red face, splayed out arms, ill fitting clothes…but I did listen to a few clips of the debate and I guess I had no idea what a whiny tinny voice he has. He looked damn uncomfortable in his own skin and it was clear to me that he needs oodles of sycophants around him to create the weird, wrong-ass image the media presents of him.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: I was “the kid with the accent” when we first moved to NoVa because I’d learned to talk in the Kansas City and Cleveland areas and was extremely Midwestern. Pretty soon my accent shifted toward something more Mid-Atlantic States, which is a bit different–those accents and Southern accents coexisted in that area. But I’ve still got some Cleveland in there.
Mike E
@rikyrah: I worked for an environmental org’s GOTV phone campaign, nonpartisan, that targeted likely voters who would be ostensibly sympathetic to the cause and probably Dem voters…one call still sticks with me: a Black woman of a certain age who listened to my pitch then said, “I’m done.” She proceeded to describe her activism over the course of her life and all the while I couldn’t help but hear not just the anger but the disappointment…I thanked her for her time and patience with me and didn’t press the issue further. If it wasn’t clear to me before, I certainly grokked how instrumental and taken for granted her efforts (and those of BIPOC) were and are today.
gvg
@Baud: I think it hurt Palin when she tried to return to Alaska. I speculate though that if her ticket had won, she might have looked more attractive later on to Alaskans.
I also think it matters to people what the candidate promises before hand and if they happen to attack their opponents on what they end up doing themselves.
And some states seem to hate non local loyal more than others. I am not sure that is always the party, sometimes it seems to be the state.
Matt McIrvin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, though it’s all kind of a theme-park reconstruction of history done with Rockefeller money in the 1930s. Busch Gardens was nearby too, though since I didn’t have my own car down there I was reliant on friends willing to shuttle me over.
sdhays
@Scout211: Well, I’m glad that got cleared up.
Idiots.
Yutsano
I have three brothers. I’m the only one who has acquired anything resembling an accent. But when I was 6 months old the family moved to Virginia and when I was 2 we moved to South Carolina. It’s probably not a big surprise. It’s much more subtle when I’m back home in Washington* but one time I was in Richmond VA for work and I almost sounded like a native.
*Canadians, though, they hear it right away.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@rikyrah:
Can’t we challenge thousands of their voters in response?
Sure Lurkalot
@Matt McIrvin: Me too…moved to St. Louis as a young teen after growing up in NY. Many of my new classmates seemed utterly impressed by my accent (though it didn’t make them much more accepting, St. Louis IMHO is very cliquish).
I think it’s interesting how some people lose their accents but others don’t. I don’t have a NY accent anymore but a friend of mine who moved to the US from England at a like age still has a British accent over 50 years later.
Pennsylvanian
@Cameron: I lived in Pittsburgh for five decades. There is not much snow there these days. The last few years we used our shovel maybe two or three times, definitely fewer than five. Certainly not the winter landscape I knew growing up.
Now I’m in Maine, so definitely back in the snow belt. But even here they are saying they don’t get nearly as much/frequent snow as they used to, and the Gulf of Maine is apparently the fastest warming body of water on the planet. Times they are a changin’.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mike E:
I’m torn here. I can understand how after so many decades one might feel that way, however, I don’t think giving up is an option either
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Matt McIrvin:
Geez, I didn’t know that
gvg
@Scout211: I honestly think he might think he needs to stay there. Having a fighting democrat Governor in Californias has been extremely valuable to the whole country starting when Trump was in and now even when we have a Democratic President. We need more than just the President or even just the Federal government and I hope Newsome and others realize it. It may not be a ego boosting as running for President, but it is very important. And the more important Democrats their are, the more they support each other and it gets more done, which impresses voters more which enables more to get elected I hope.
Cameron
@Pennsylvanian: I have read that 40 or 50 years ago it snowed in Miami. I have a very hard time believing that. I live somewhat further north of Miami, and last winter there were many people in the neighborhood who got their bowels reversed because one or two nights, it actually got down to 30 degrees.
sdhays
@Scout211: Of course I believe him. Right now, there’s every indication that Biden will run in 2024 and it would be madness to challenge him.
laura
@Scout211: my message is simply my intent to respond to anyone who pretends that Kamala Harris is to be erased, ignored or diminished in her job as the Vice President and likely presidential front runner. Gavin Newsom has made it clear; repeatedly; that he has no intention of shoving her out the way to run in 2024. You called the question regarding his most recent public statement in the debate with the goat killer Brian Dahle about whether the Governor can be believed. I am happy to call bullshit whenever and wherever I see erasure and misogynoir- especially when it’s from a California Democrat. I feel so unwelcome here since before the big data heist and rebuild. So thanks for the reminder about just how unwanted me and my thoughts are around here.
Suzanne
As for accents….I lived on Long Island until I was nine. I never had a really obvious NY accent — Mr. Suzanne the SLP says I have the “American TV accent” — except when I am back in NY it instantly comes out. Like, there is something deep in my lizard brain that hears one “New Yawk” word and instantly it comes spilling out as if I have been there my whole life. Mr. Suzanne teases me about it. I remember one time someone accidentally knocked into me in at JFK as I was walking to get my luggage, and I, without any irony, said, “Hey, I’m wawkin’ here”. Like, it’s obviously base knowledge.
Though it’s funny…..The vast majority of white people in Phoenix are not natives and there aren’t the same kind of regional accents or terms as there are in older parts of the country, but they do have some of that Southern California linguistic flava. I, at the age of 42, routinely refer to things as “awesome”.
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: The American TV accent is more or less Midwestern but not so much Great Lakes. I remember noticing when Johnny Carson still ruled late night that he had my father’s exact accent–he’s from Nebraska.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Permitless concealed carry is in ways worse than open carry. But then, my state is open carry but people where I am seldom carry firearms openly. In other states it seems very prevalent, kind of a lifestyle.
Betty Cracker
@Cameron: It definitely snowed in Tampa in 1977 — about an inch of snow that stuck around until noon and paralyzed the city. I was a kid, and it was so exciting — it was the first time I’d ever seen snow and the only snow day I ever experienced. My sister and I took cardboard boxes to a nearby golf course and “sledded” down elevated putting greens.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Reminiscent of a time a few years back, before COVID and the Capitol Lynch Mob, when Rudy Giuliani showed up at Yankee Stadium and got booed out of the park. One of those days that made me ashamed to be an American but proud to be a New Yorker.
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: The “standard American” is decidedly un-regional. Probably more precisely, it’s a smushy mix of every region. It’s really interesting.
UncleEbeneezer
@Sister Golden Bear: Ugh. I really do hope that DOJ is paying attention, tracking and investigating these groups. From everything I know about Garland, I’d be really surprised if they aren’t.
gvg
@Cameron: It snowed in the 80’s. I recall, because I was living here. Orlando got some too of course (central Florida) The trip to North Florida for family Christmas was grim because of the miles of dead orange groves. Miami also got some flurries in the 70’s when I was in grade school, it was in the papers. Melted as it it the ground. Very unpleasant for the residents as the houses weren’t insulated, many didn’t have heaters and lots of people didn’t have coats. The schools were chilly and poorer families didn’t have never before needed coats. The stores don’t even bother to carry coats really. I grew up in Orlando and for a trip to Wisconsin to see relatives, we gave up and went without, drove to the mall from airport and bought up there. That coat lasted me 3 grades and was better than anything I saw for sale in Florida.
zhena gogolia
@laura: What made you feel unwanted? You’re most welcome. I don’t think Scout211 really meant to erase Harris.
I’m looking forward to her presidency.
Matt McIrvin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, a small number of structures are more or less original, but most of it isn’t. Sometimes there are some bricks from the original building. They did try to follow the 18th-century plan of the town generally, but some of the buildings like the Colonial Capitol are kind of idealized relative to what they originally were.
The Moar You Know
@laura: I’m more than a bit confused here; Biden will be running in 2024. Do you think Harris will challenge him in the primaries? I doubt that very much, she is far too smart to make that sort of rookie move
Same goes for Newsom, for that matter.
Betty Cracker
@gvg: Here’s a photo of the snow in Tampa from the Tampa Bay Times (then Tribune) archives:
Ohio Mom
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Rockefeller money was also behind The Cloisters in NYC. In the 1930s, several medieval cloisters in Europe were taken apart, shipped to Manhattan (to a park at the northern tip of the island), put back together and filled with medieval art.
It’s a branch of the Metropolitan Museum of Art now. You don’t feel like you are in the city when you are there, you feel transported in space and time.
Guess the Rockefeller had a thing for creating alternative realities.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Suzanne: Whenever we travel internationally, people are surprised when they pick up no readily discernable accent from me. They usually say Chicago or Cleveland.
When I go out to the counties, though, my tone and accent slide way on down into crackerland since I grew up with it and can make the sounds. It is a valuable thing….
The Moar You Know
@Matt McIrvin: example #1: no piles of human waste or horseshit. I don’t even think they’ve got a functional outhouse there.
Jackie
@rikyrah: I read an article about the close race Grassley’s in. Even if I was a republican, I don’t think I’d vote for him due to his age. I know the theory is he’s planning to step down and have the governor appoint his grandson to his seat, but I hope like hell Barnes pulls the upset.
I’d feel the same if DiFi insisted on running again.
Mike E
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): thankfully many still persevere! It’s clear that white supremacists won’t stop so the struggle must continue, and our efforts mustn’t waver.
Matt McIrvin
@The Moar You Know: Some of the most irritating armchair-quarterbacking lately, once people got over the idea that Biden will not run again, has been about whether Biden is going to drop Harris as a running mate.
And, of course, he won’t. It’s Biden-Harris 2024 unless he’s sidelined for health reasons somehow. And it’s probably not worth speculating about what happens in that instance. And 2028 is a long way off.
Matt McIrvin
@The Moar You Know: Oh there was plenty of horseshit, you could smell it all the time.
W&M made a big deal about how the Wren Building, the old main building of the college campus, was original as designed by Christopher Wren himself (I had a class there once), but this was a somewhat heavily massaged version of the truth. Again, there was some original brickwork and it was kind of vaguely the same shape? And the idea that Wren designed it seems to have been a somewhat fanciful imputation.
mrmoshpotato
@lee: Hahaha, good to hear! Sounds like the college kids are tired of Rethuglican bullshit.
Jackie
RBG Is getting a postage stamp!!!❤️❤️❤️
“The U.S. Postal Service is honoring the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg as “an icon of American culture” with a stamp in the new year.
The design, unveiled on Monday, is a painted portrait based on a photo of Ginsburg in a black robe with an intricate white collar, which became her trademark.”
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/25/postal-service-honors-the-late-justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-with-a-stamp.html
NotMax
@Matt McIrvin
Mystic Seaport in Connecticut also brings back pleasant memories of recreations of living history. Though it has been going on 60 years since last visited so cannot speak to any changes meant to “enhance” the experience in order to cater to today’s crowds.
Scout211
@laura: I think you may have misread my attempt at a snarky comment. I’m sorry that it wasn’t clear.
I have been a Kamala fan from day one. She was my first choice for the Democratic nomination and I was heartbroken when she dropped out. I was thrilled that Biden chose her and I am still 100% behind her as VP or in the future, a run for president.
It’s Newsom I don’t completely trust. But that’s just me. Other jackals here are making a good case that he will keep his word and stay in office for his full term. I hope he does.
I may be a old retired person, but as a woman who has tirelessly volunteered for women’s programs in my community for decades, this is the first time I have ever been accused of misogyny. When I was in my 20s and 30s I was often called a “women’s libber” because I wouldn’t stay quiet in the 70s and 80s for the rights of women.
I hope you keep commenting here. It’s a very big tent with many different opinions, but there can be misunderstandings and miscommunications at times.
zhena gogolia
@Ohio Mom: The Spielberg West Side Story has a nice scene set there.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Surely you wouldn’t vote for the republican if DiFI was running again in the general election?
zhena gogolia
@Matt McIrvin: For once, it really is both sides, because there was a lot of speculation that TFG would drop Pence.
ETA: Turns out he planned to drop him through the gallows trap door.
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: I can’t see any scenario where DiFi runs again. It just would not be possible.
And I’d love to see Franken beat Grassley. Also waiting to hear more about Grassley and other GOP actions in runup to January 6.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: That’s not what I asked Jackie, though. I was responding to her statement
I would love to see Grassley go down. Hard.
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: Cool article. I’ve got that Northern Cities Shift, no doubt about it, though I think I spent decades subliminally trying to reduce it. There are a few tape recordings of me made when I was a little kid–my sister keeps them as blackmail material–and it is intense.
My wife’s accent, I think, is particularly fascinating: she moved around a lot as a kid so she speaks with what is basically a Bay Area Californian accent with New Hampshire characteristics.
NotMax
@Ohio Mom
The Heather Garden, nearby The Cloisters, is a spectacular pastoral enclave.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Scout211:
Wait, what? Oh, I forgot, this is the Internet
Jackie
@WaterGirl: I’d hope she’d be primaried – by Porter!😁
The Moar You Know
@WaterGirl: I’ve been tempted, especially when I was younger. I’ve been voting against her in primaries since the 88 election. But she just keeps winning.
I do believe that voters have an affirmative duty to vote for the least awful candidate, even if you can’t stand them, and California could have done SO much better than pro-war, pro-Chamber Dianne Feinstein. And now there is the cognitive question. But if she’s on that ballot and her opponent is a Republican, I’m voting for her even if she can’t remember her own name.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@WaterGirl: There wasn’t a Republican in the last general election – two Dems!
Martin
@Soprano2: Yeah, the education results aren’t surprising. Covid was traumatic, not because of what it did to education, but because kids who are naturally optimistic and believe the world will get better watched the US sacrifice a million people to the culture war and meatpacking profits and then bend over backward to justify it and memory hole everyone that we lost.
That’s going to fuck you up no matter whether you’re in a classroom or not.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Heartening that with the exit of Leahy, Feinstein has already announced she will refuse to accept appointment as president pro tem when the Ds retain Senate control in 2023.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@The Moar You Know: 👍
billcinsd
@WaterGirl: California has jungle primaries. So the odds of the person facing DiFi being a Republican are low. Last election, it was Kevin De Leon who was a Democrat
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: This is one of the coolest videos I’ve ever seen, all about American accents. This guy is incredible, and the regional experts are also really amazing.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: Wow. Now that gets me on the way-back machine to when I grew up in Saudi Arabia (like a million years ago). We actually had snow flurries (at least once, and I think twice) while I lived in Dhahran. Nothing that stuck on the ground, of course, but those of us who had grown up almost entirely in SA were suitably impressed. People who had come over after living in USA/Europe, not so much.
lee
@The Moar You Know:
I’ve got a friend in SF who is pretty plugged into the Democrats in CA. The push is to get her to not run again and retire. They really don’t want to have to have an ugly primary fight but now they are more than willing to.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Old Sturbridge Village too.
The Moar You Know
@Martin: I agree with you 100% on this.
OzarkHillbilly
It would not surprise me in the least if this was true. In fact, it would surprise me if it wasn’t. Teachers love their students, sometimes especially the difficult ones. I have too many friends who are teachers and they sure as shit don’t do it for the money.
Elizabelle
@NotMax: That is good news.
And thanks for the info about the heather gardens near The Cloisters. Goes on the one-year bucket list.
PJ
@Ohio Mom: This is not quite accurate. The core architecture and art of The Cloisters were acquired by George Barnard, a New York collector, in the late 19th and early 20th c., who showed them in a building he called “The Cloisters” in Manhattan. He sold his collection to John D. Rockefeller, Jr. in the ’20s when he was broke, and Rockefeller donated it to the Metropolitan. When the Metropolitan floated a larger building to house the collection, Rockefeller purchased the land for what is now Ft. Tryon park for a new building and grounds to ensure that the enjoyment of the building would be unimpeded (he also purchased land across the Hudson in NJ to keep it undeveloped for this purpose.)
See https://www.metmuseum.org/press/news/2006/the-cloisters-a-history
Betty Cracker
@Scout211: I’ll be surprised if any prominent Dem who wants to have a future in party politics beyond 2024 runs against Biden. He might draw a Vermin Supreme-level opponent like Obama did in 2012 (remember that? me neither), but nobody serious.
Now, if Biden decides not to run again for whatever reason, I think lots of prominent Dems would throw their hats in the ring, maybe including Newsom. But a contested primary would be a disaster, IMO, so I hope it doesn’t happen.
The Moar You Know
@billcinsd: He still thinks he has a political future in this state. I’m going to be real interested to see what happens to his career. If he can tough it out for the next few months, hell, he might be OK.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Oh, abso-freaking-lutely. Drew an absolute blank on attempting to remember that location. A more intimate sojourn than Willliamsburg.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: Must send this to my friend in Siesta Key, who’s all “Thank God I’m in Florida and won’t have to put up with Harrisburg winters again.”
Except, of course, with global-warming-that-doesn’t-exist, it’ll probably be averaging in the 90’s during the day in winter down here within a couple years.
WaterGirl
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Oh, right, I forgot about that!
Roger Moore
@Soprano2:
I find this unsurprising. This issue has been demagogued to death, but too few of the people demanding a return to in-person classes were willing to do what it took to make that work. We needed to be willing to restrict things outside school to keep transmission rates low, and we needed to invest a ton of money in making the schools safe enough for in-person classes. Without those things, we were just trading one kind of disruption for another.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@sdhays:
This. If the fuckers are blanket challenging registered Democrats then the Democrats need to strike back and do the exact same thing and blanket challenge Republican voters. It makes no sense to do otherwise.
Bring a gun to a gunfight or prepare to die. That’s the choice here.
WaterGirl
@Roger Moore: Not to mention that stress affects the ability to take in information, and if we grownups were super stressed, and we most certainly were, imagine how stressed the kids were. They haven’t had years to build up coping strategies.
WaterGirl
@Odie Hugh Manatee: I’m afraid that I have to agree that we’re at that point.
The Moar You Know
@lee: That’s been the push for her last 2-3 terms. It’s not working.
It will be ugly; she has protected and enriched a lot of entrenched interests in this state, some good, some not so good. In her favor: she will have a no-limits checkbook to draw on, and decades of goodwill. Against her: she will have to fight a primary and a Dem vs. Dem general election, and she is almost 90 years old.
if she wants it, much as I hate the idea, the odds are still in her favor.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: I doubt that seriously. Enough.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Pennsylvanian: I grew up in Grand Rapids MI but every Christmas we would drive to Cleveland to visit my aunt and uncle and cousins and then on to Jamestown NY/Warren PA where my dad’s side of the family (including of course my grandparents on that side) lived. Warren isn’t that far north of Pittsburg.
We made that drive every year from when I was old enough to remember (and probably before that) through High School and maybe even into college. I graduated high school in 1988. EVERY YEAR the entire drive was snow covered from start to finish. Snow in GR, snow in Lansing, Ann Arbor, Toledo, Cleveland and East through the Lake Erie snow belt to snow in Warren and Jamestown. Nowadays I drive from the DC area to Grand Rapids for Christmas and there’s no snow in Cleveland most years and it has become a roughly 50/50 proposition whether there’s any snow in Grand Rapids at Christmas. So yeah, I’m guessing Pittsburg, like Cleveland, and Grand Rapids, gets less snow than it used to. I
‘ve been up to the Laurel Highlands in the winter a few times and despite having supposed ski resorts they’re not exactly blanketed in snow even up there. Have a cousin that lives in State College and snow up there is also intermittent and not a winter long thing.
RSA
Our side has ethics, which limits possible responses.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sure Lurkalot: DeSantis’ human suit really itches.
Also too, latest from the USGS is 5.1. Got the quake alert but I was sitting in my parked car and didn’t feel it (not uncommon with small to moderate* earthquakes).
*As a CA native it was a moderate quake to me. Did wait a minute to exit the car (to run an errand) just to be safe.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sure Lurkalot: DeSantis’ human suit really itches.
Also too, latest from the USGS is 5.1. Got the quake alert but I was sitting in my parked car and didn’t feel it (not uncommon with small to moderate* earthquakes).
*As a CA native it was a moderate quake to me. Did wait a minute to exit the car (to run an errand) just to be safe.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
BTW, a spot of Wisconsin frippery probably best left forgotten.
:)
rikyrah
@Jackie:
I will get some of those.
TriassicSands
If DeSantis does crash, it won’t be the first time an empty suit flops completely when trying to move from governor to president. Look what happened to the Wisconsin airhead Scott Walker. He was an early favorite only to implode. Unfortunately, the standards in the GOP are so low that it’s hard to put much “faith” in Republican primary voters to actually pick a “better” candidate. Note: they can’t pick a good candidate since there is no such thing, unless by good one means able to persuade the stupid and ignorant with a never ending torrent of lies. Trump comes to mind. He was in all conventional respects a terrible candidate, but with the assistance of the MSM and the idiocy of Republican voters (and the Electoral College) he made it to the White House where he distinguished himself as the worst president in our history.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: what do you doubt? That she won’t leave voluntarily, or that she’d win if she ran?
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: I doubt that DiFi would run again. I generally trust Democrats to have more respect for their voters. So, no need to even get into electability, which I also doubt.
Especially from a blue state. Jebus.
Enough on the hypotheticals.
karen marie
@geg6: I don’t know but Georgia isn’t giving Florida a run for its money given anyone can challenge voters (ie, prevent them from voting) in bulk, without leaving home.
Calling it a challenge is incredibly misleading. People whose right to vote is challenged are prevented from voting. A lot of people don’t have the time or emotional energy to contest such a block to voting.
ian
@Betty Cracker:
The next time there is an opening, be it either 2024 or 2028, the primary will be contested. They always are. We mock Republicans for blindly rallying around Trump. It would be a mistake to somehow pre-select one candidate and demand the whole party accept it. It is a strength, not a weakness, to have to go out and convince a majority of the party to vote for you. (you as in the candidate, not you, unless of course you want to run BC :p.)
Elizabelle
@ian: You don’t remember Ted Kennedy going up against incumbent Jimmy Carter, do you? How did that one work out??
Ridiculous. Especially with fascism baring its fangs, every single election. Not the time to splinter.
Did anyone primary Obama in 2012? I don’t recall …
Jackie
Another article about MI Mallory McMorrow! I sure admire her ambition!
”Mallory McMorrow has turned a viral April speech from the well of the Michigan state Senate into a $2.35 million national windfall — and, potentially, lasting political power as she bids to flip her reliably Republican state legislative chamber in November.
In the six months since the 36-year-old Democrat rose to prominence defending herself against unfounded attacks of being a “groomer,” which were written into a fundraising email from a Republican fellow state senator, McMorrow has built a big contribution list of her own and has become a draw signing fundraising emails for other organizations, too.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/25/mallory-mcmorrows-viral-michigan-speech-00063314
Ruckus
@The Moar You Know:
I think she would win if she ran. She’s good, she seems sharp as the preverbal tack and she seemed to be very much in charge both in the house speaker race last time and in the Jan 6 crap she didn’t mess around at all. She has history, she has background and yes she will have to be replaced at some point, but she seems stronger than many/most anyone else right now. Remember how many thought she couldn’t be speaker this go round and she wiped the floor with all challengers. Almost hate to say it this way but she’s a tough old broad with seemingly limitless knowledge of how things work in her world and she takes no crap from anyone.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: I’m a native Californian and cannot forget that in my lifetime we put both Reagan and Schwarzenegger (not to mention two of the most truly vicious, shitty GOP politicians to walk the earth, Wilson and Deukmejian) into the governor’s seat, so you’ll excuse me for not having the faith in CA voters that you do.
Dianne Feinstein is going to have to be made to quit, one way or another. I do not see her doing so voluntarily. I would hope that my fellow citizens would have the good sense to not return her to office if she runs again.
ian
@Elizabelle: I don’t think it is ridiculous that we have contested primaries. I think it is the very basis of democracy.
How would you recommend we choose candidates?
Kropacetic
@Elizabelle: Carter was an incumbent at the time. I believe Ian is referring to what will happen in the even of a White House vacancy. Yes, there will be a contested primary and I also think that’s good.
Obama did not get any serious challenger. See upthread.
@Ruckus: Diane Feinstein?
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Sure, if you believe our dictatorship would be better than their dictatorship.
Look, democracy is the last firewall. Lose that, and it’s all lost. Those constitutional protections? Gone. Legal system? Gone. You get a nice period of internecine violence and then we form a new government, and god knows what that looks like. Cities probably not as destroyed as Ukraine, but close.
Betty Cracker
@ian: I agree there would be a contest in an open primary, and I also agree that’s how it’s supposed to work. That said, I think an open primary in 2024 would be a bitterly contested disaster that would pave the way for whatever fascist hairball the GOP horks up, so I hope Biden stays healthy and runs again, making all this speculation moot.
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: Wait, Ruckus. Moar is talking about DiFi, not Pelosi. Who is sharp as a tack and Nancy Smash.
Martin
@The Moar You Know: Not sure DiFi is capable of signing the paperwork to run again, to be honest.
The Moar You Know
@Ruckus: um, we’re talking about Feinstein, not Pelosi. Agree with you on Pelosi. She’s on it and is frankly not replaceable.
I always laugh when people talk about her getting primaried or getting “voted out”. Out of her district? Good fucking luck with that.
Ksmiami
@RSA: challenge every Republican vote. Their side commits vote fraud for reals
Kristine
@Cameron:
January 1977? I was at USF-Tampa at the time and it snowed there. A heavy dusting to a quarter inch–enough for snowballs and very short snowmen. Folks were piling into cars and driving to Gainesville because iirc there was 0.5″+ there. I heard that it snowed in Bermuda, so Miami may not be too much of a stretch.
Elizabelle
@ian: I may have misread your comment. I thought you were suggesting a 2024 primary challenge to Biden, incumbent president.
Jerry
Here in NC, Ted Budd is finally get hit on Social Security and Medicare cuts and raising the eligibility age to 70. Finally! Keep hitting him on the antichoice stuff and now this.
The Moar You Know
@Martin: I frankly do not know how much credence to give the reports of her mental decline. They all seem to be from people who would have a vested interest in her not running again. That being said, I really do not want her running again.
Dan B
@Elizabelle: Also Wave Hill. The gardens are stunning and the view across the Hudson to the cliffs (name of cliffs?).
ian
@Elizabelle: These things happen. I do it all the time. Cheers :)
Kropacetic
@Martin: Would us broadly challenging their voters be a threat to democracy or would it be highlighting the absurd threat to democracy posed by a system allowing such challenges.
Keep in mind they’re already doing it. I don’t want to fuck up any elections. I want Republicans to see the consequences of their policies to hopefully unfuck elections.
NotMax
@The Moar You Know
So far as Pelosi is concerned, ain’t nothing wrong with transitioning to an unofficial position as Speaker Emeritus. Passing the torch preferable while it is lit than when extinguished.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@NotMax:
I read this as “Heather Graham… is spectacular”
Now who can argue with that (clip)
NotMax
@Dan B
Palisades.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: Well, the junior Senator from Vermont told Thom Hartman that someone ought to primary Obama in 2012. He was up for reelection himself, and wasn’t going to make the sacrifice.
Eight years later that statement on Hartman’s radio show came whirling around like a boomerang and bopped Sanders on the head. Some group played the tape in radio ads before the 2020 South Carolina primary. That state’s Democrats were not amused.
Elizabelle
@Dan B: Ooh. Never heard of Wave Hill. Thank you!!
I regret not making time for The Cloisters and environs on earlier trips. Maybe in spring 2023 …
schrodingers_cat
Speaking about contested primaries, the last open Democratic primary was ridiculous where you had more than 10 people discuss minutiae of M4A over and over again in the umpteenth debates. Which I watched, why yes I am a sucker for punishment.
Then we had nutjobs like Marianne Wilson and Russian plants like Gabbard on the stage. Those debates were a waste of time. They were unreal. It was as if the Rs didn’t exist and the whole country was like my deep blue county in MA.
Anotherlurker
@WaterGirl: I received the results of Addie’s needle aspiration test and it is very bad news. The tumor is a Carcinoma.
I am in the process of deciding on palliative care for her.
I am gutted.
Kristine
@Elizabelle: Another vote for the Cloisters. I hope they haven’t changed the herb garden, which is divided into the various types: culinary, medicinal, and poison ( I think there’s a 4th type, but I can’t recall).
Kristine
@Anotherlurker: I am so sorry.
schrodingers_cat
@Anotherlurker: I am so sorry. Making a pawcircle for you.
Ruckus
@Kropacetic:
@Elizabelle:
I came in and just realized that I got the person from NorCal all wrong.
I am talking about Nancy P.
Diane Feinstein seems to be well into senioritis
Sorry u’all. I’ll shut up now….. As I seem to maybe have a touch of that myself today….
Cameron
@Anotherlurker: I’m so sorry to hear this. It’s hard. It’s really, really hard. No good advice; I just gave all the love I had, and then tried to learn how to deal with it. Wishing a light to shine on both of you.
Elizabelle
@Anotherlurker: I’m so sorry. Poor Addie.
Elizabelle
@Kristine: A poison garden? I’m there. How … goth.
cain
She will lose that primary fight given her declining cognitive skills. People will clearly see that she cant actually make decisions because she is confused. It’s time for her to retire – she can’t do the job anymore. I totally understand that someone needs a purpose otherwise her cognitive skill will decline even further.
Geminid
@Dan B: The village of New Harmony, in southwest Indiana, is pretty neat. It was founded in 1814 as Harmony. In the 1820s Welsh economist Robert Owen bought the town, renamed it New Harmony, and established a utopian community. Or tried to; the experiment failed after just two years.
New Harmony remained a learning center, and is said to have established the young nation’s firdt public library. It was the second headquarters of the U.S. Geological Survey.
Now it’s a a nice quiet place to see restored 18th century houses and stores. When I stopped by 25 years ago I got the impression that it attracted some New Age-type residents.
Betty Cracker
@Anotherlurker: Damn, that sucks.
FelonyGovt
@Anotherlurker: I’m so sorry. That’s so hard.
zhena gogolia
@Anotherlurker: I’m so, so sorry. I hope you can make her comfortable for a while.
cain
@Anotherlurker: oh no! I’m so sorry :( :(
Dan B
@Elizabelle: I knew the guy who turned the gardens from trash heaps to incredible cutting edge display gardens, Marco Stufano, middle name Polo.
Dan B
@Anotherlurker: Very sorry to hear that news. Palliative care seems wise but ask your friends and family if it’s a difficult decision for you to make.
Geminid
It seems like people are so mad at Diane Feinstein they want her to run again so they can be mad at her some more. Or at least at the prospect.
I know this isn’t a betting site, but if it were I’d put some jackalbucks on her retiring.
Origuy
Statewide elections in California often end up being between a northerner and a southerner, since the state is so large that people can be unknown at the other end of the state. De Leon is on the LA City Council. He’s currently embroiled in a scandal where several members of the council were recorded making racist remarks, including de Leon. Assuming DiFi does not run in 2024, and Newsome stays out, the field will be wide open.
Eyeroller
@Martin: I don’t see how challenging their voters when they challenge ours is setting up “our” dictatorship.
It’s been shown that the only winning strategy in a game of repeated prisoner’s dilemma, which is what we are playing, is tit-for-tat.
James E Powell
@The Moar You Know:
I would like to see Katie Porter in that seat, unless she is nominated to the supreme court.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Eyeroller: 👍
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Anotherlurker:
How horrible. I’m so sorry to hear this.
frosty
@The Moar You Know: I agree. In my state, a stroke-affected* Fetterman is better than a functioning Oz.
* Ti be clear, from all appearances there aren’t any significant effects.
WaterGirl
@Anotherlurker: Oh, no. I am so sorry. I wish it weren’t so.
So sad for you. tears.
Miss Bianca
@Ohio Mom: Him and Henry Ford. Ever been to Greenfield Village? My mother’s favorite spot in Michigan. (She, a native New Yawker, also loved The Cloisters. I’ve always meant to get there someday, as I am a big fan of medieval art.)
Miss Bianca
@Anotherlurker: so sorry to hear it. My condolences.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: I think this whole conversation about what Nancy Pelosi should do is a bit insulting. The “just win, baby” consummate politician is going to step down as speaker whenever she thinks that is the best option for the Democratic party and for the country.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: I have been to New Harmony, and I recall it being a lovely place.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Anotherlurker: let me add my condolences. BJ is a wonderful, supportive community. Rely on it.
Citizen Alan
@Kristine: I never made it to the Cloisters while I was in NYC. One of my (many) regrets, but there’s only so much you can do in 9 months while taking graduate classes.
Matt McIrvin
@zhena gogolia: There are a bunch of scenarios that political reports constantly speculate about because they would be very dramatic, though they never or hardly ever happen.
For instance, the one where a relatively popular President suddenly resigns late in their second term just to give the VP the advantage of incumbency for the next election. That one came up with both Clinton and Obama. (Never came up with Bush!) It doesn’t happen.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Insulting? To accept her at her word about intention to relinquish the position?
Matt McIrvin
Oh, yeah, and another pundit favorite is the unity ticket, where the President chooses a running mate from the other party, like Lincoln and Andrew Johnson. That worked out great, no trouble there!
Also “co-presidents” where the candidate chooses a running mate (usually an eminence grise in the same party) that will not really be a VP but more like an official second President. There was a lot of talk about Reagan naming Gerald Ford as his prospective co-President in 1980. Nothing came of it.
Now that I think of it, most of these dumb ideas are about the Vice-President somehow. I guess they need to make the Vice-Presidency more interesting.
LiminalOwl
@The Moar You Know: Yes. I keep thinking the Rudyard Kipling poem “Tommy” could be updated (or filked, or something… maybe I’ll find a way) to speak to this.
LiminalOwl
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Argh. Some people… How infuriating!
Soprano2
@apocalipstick: ‘Waves at you from Springfield, MO’.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Matt McIrvin: I had an officer in the Navy who grew up on Long Island but spent four years living in Boston for college. Her combined accent used to give me aural whiplash.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Anotherlurker: I m so sorry
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know if Florida will end up blue. Between stronger hurricanes, sea level rise, and the flood insurance issue, I’m not sure if it is a state that will continue to grow in population. Maybe for a little while longer, but at some point, it becomes a risky place to live. I think Democrats are more likely to understand that and factor it in when thinking about relocating than Republicans are.
Chris T.
@lowtechcyclist:
How many corners are there, besides Tyson’s?
Chris T.
@Matt McIrvin:
I’m kind of an Accent Chameleon, I pick up the local one and use it with the locals without thinking about it. (This is a normal thing everyone has, but I have it in spades. What takes most people years takes me just a few minutes.) But I when I was in London I got weirded out because there were so many accents: any pair of people talking would have two different ones.
kalakal
@Anotherlurker: Oh I am so sorry
LiminalOwl
@Anotherlurker: I am so sorry. Holding you and Addie in the Light. (Thread is outdated, I’ll try to repeat today.)
LiminalOwl
Growing up in NYC, my favorite places were the Cloisters and the Museum of Natural History. The MNH was the first favorite, because I was four and loved dinosaurs, and then for half a year of middle school was close enough to walk over and spend lunch hour there. In high school, and returning home for visits from college, the Cloisters won hands down. Though on beautiful spring days it was far too crowded—I remember once when the way kept being blocked by one or another of the SIX wedding parties posing for photographs on the grounds…
ohthatguy
@OzarkHillbilly: I was once teaching in a US school and we went into lockdown because of a possibly armed intruder. (He turned out to be unarmed but very unwelcome). So we all sat in classrooms with doors locked trying to keep our students quiet. We joked a lot about it later. “I can’t believe I am about to get shot to protect XXXXX! Dude’s never done a single assignment and I’m not sure he knows my name.” The jokes were based around an understanding that had someone come after our babies (high school gang bangers are still our babies) then we’d probably be shot first as we attacked them with outdated textbooks and globes from the Cold War.
I have since left the US and moved around the Third World, so I don’t need to worry about my kids being freedomed to death anymore.