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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

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You are here: Home / Authors In Our Midst / Open Thread and Colorado Update: Libertarian Spoiler

Open Thread and Colorado Update: Libertarian Spoiler

by TaMara|  November 12, 202210:28 am| 96 Comments

This post is in: Authors In Our Midst, Open Threads, Politics

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Colorado Update: Libertarian Spoiler

You may remember when I posted about CO-8 going to the Democratic candidate Caraveo, I mentioned that a Libertarian played a bit of a spoiler, pulling in almost 4% of the vote. It gets funnier:

Whether his voters would have voted at all if it weren’t for him, I guess we’ll never know. But rock on, Dan, rock on.

In CO-3 – Boebert has taken enough of a lead to not force a recount, for now. Probably another week before we have an answer. I suspect there will be a recount regardless because there are 6,200 ballots that are “under votes” meaning the machines said they did not vote for either candidate – those will get a closer look if there is a recount.

And on a completely different note: Chicago area peeps – our own Dorothy Winsor will be at two events this weekend if you are looking for something to do.

Central Library
130 South Roselle Road
Schaumburg, IL 60193
Saturday, Nov. 12 • Noon-3 p.m.
Teens, Kids, All Ages, Adults

Join us for our annual fair showcasing local authors. Meet fiction and nonfiction authors writing for youth, teens and adults. Books will be available for purchase.

==========

And on Sunday she’ll be at WindyCon in Lombardi, IL

She’ll be doing a reading at noon and will be on a panel at 1 pm.

I’m having a small dinner party this weekend, so I’ll be busy cleaning and cooking, so no Kindness today. Maybe I’ll put together a recipe post. Menu is fairly simple: chili, collard greens, cornbread and I’m thinking double chocolate cookies topped with vanilla ice cream.

This is an open thread

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Previous Post: « Saturday Morning Open Thread: A Good Week for Democracy (& Decency)
Next Post: Georgia Matters More Than You Realize »

Reader Interactions

96Comments

  1. 1.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 12, 2022 at 10:33 am

    Thanks for the boost, TaMara.

  2. 2.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 10:34 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Anytime!

  3. 3.

    Brachiator

    November 12, 2022 at 10:36 am

    Here’s a bit of fun. Daniel Craig getting down in an ad for Belvedere Vodka.

    Enjoy.

  4. 4.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 12, 2022 at 10:39 am

    Hehe, silly Vince-loving autoincorrect.  That should be Lombard, IL.

  5. 5.

    trucmat

    November 12, 2022 at 10:41 am

    Colorado 8th … Tina Peters … Pillow man … Thousands of under votes … The highest scrutiny and care will be needed in that recount. Colorado can handle it fairly but who knows whether Boebert gets shown the exit.

  6. 6.

    NutmegAgain

    November 12, 2022 at 10:41 am

    @Brachiator: Shades of Christopher Walken!

  7. 7.

    NutmegAgain

    November 12, 2022 at 10:43 am

    Likely dumb question alert!  TaMara, I have a short video of Dog to be, but I don’t know how to reach you… tx

  8. 8.

    twbrandt (formerly tom)

    November 12, 2022 at 10:44 am

    @Brachiator: the outtakes made that video.

  9. 9.

    JML

    November 12, 2022 at 10:46 am

    I don’t complain about seeing “Libertarians” on the ballot line; these days they tend to hurt Republicans in the same fashion that Greens used to play spoiler for the Dems 20 years ago. They’re rarely actually libertarian (especially after the Ron Paul nonsense), just bros who want to smoke pot and not pay taxes. If they were actually libertarian, they would oppose any regulation of abortion or birth control and funny…that never seems to come up!

    But libertarianism simply doesn’t work as a functioning ethos in a modern society. We’re too interconnected, there are too many services that need to be performed to avoid chaos and collapse, and it’s one of those ideas whose time has come and gone. All that’s left are partial ones and when you try and pick and choose major portions out of an ethos it falls apart pretty quickly.

  10. 10.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 10:48 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Well, damn – but now I don’t want to fix it because then your comment won’t be funny anymore. LOL

  11. 11.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 10:50 am

    @NutmegAgain: you can use my contact in the contact links or try this one:

    whats4dinnersolutions (at) live (dot) com  :-)

  12. 12.

    kalakal

    November 12, 2022 at 10:57 am

    That video’s hilarious.

    Meantime, it’s stealth Jim, but not as we know it

    https://twitter.com/Yoda4ever/status/1590730751942836226?s=20&t=jwjIRQCvmxNdw8DQcZHgFw

  13. 13.

    Tom Levenson

    November 12, 2022 at 11:00 am

    @Brachiator: That was fun.

    His middle-aged scowl-smirk becomes so self deprecating by the end.

  14. 14.

    Immanentize

    November 12, 2022 at 11:01 am

    @NutmegAgain: Also was a reference at the end to Lost in Translation and Bill Murray.

  15. 15.

    Nicole

    November 12, 2022 at 11:02 am

    That was a fascinating listen, but I think they buried the lede- two women running on the D and R spot, and here’s an XY running.

    Hmm… maybe Dems should look at that going forward if they have two women running against each other in the D and R spots- find some schmo to run as a Libertarian.  Dems did well with the primary ads highlighting how nuts certain R candidates were…

  16. 16.

    Miss Bianca

    November 12, 2022 at 11:02 am

    Well, I am still hoping Frisch manages to pull it out in the end, but meantime…glad not to be in CD-3 anymore!

    And if nothing else, this nail-biter shows that Democrats can, indeed, be competitive in that district. And that Boebert better watch her ass. Instead of inviting all of us to see it all the time.

  17. 17.

    Starfish

    November 12, 2022 at 11:04 am

    @JML: Libertarians always hated women.

    Even St. Ron Paul was anti-abortion.

  18. 18.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 11:05 am

    @Brachiator: That was great. Taika Waititi is so talented.

  19. 19.

    Starfish

    November 12, 2022 at 11:06 am

    @Tom Levenson: Tom, did you watch any of the stuff about the FTX melt down? I thought you might have interesting opinions on that.

    Here is a video that goes through Harry Potter fans and sexy wood nymphs to get there.

  20. 20.

    Geo Wilcox

    November 12, 2022 at 11:07 am

    @twbrandt (formerly tom):  No wonder it’s so good. look who directed it.

  21. 21.

    Starfish

    November 12, 2022 at 11:13 am

    So apparently the head of FTX was the second biggest donor to the Democratic Party in the 2020 cycle.

  22. 22.

    JML

    November 12, 2022 at 11:16 am

    @Starfish: Ron Paul was always a republican in libertarian clothing, which has been their reality for a long time. And yes, as a “party” they’ve always been very anti-woman. It’s a white bro party for people with money with just enough heft behind it to be seductive to people who don’t think very hard about the positions (and want to smoke pot and not pay taxes).

    I got boosted and a flu shot yesterday, so I’m extra cranky today.

  23. 23.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 11:17 am

    So in weird news at my house: Jasper tested positive for hookworms. Which is unusual. So all the dogs are getting dewormed, though Scout and Trixie only tested positive for giardia. I’m also getting tested, but the chances are his is just a residual infection from his poor living conditions, and his treatments in rescue didn’t get it all. Fun times. Hookworn can’t really survive here outside the body – too dry. And I keep the backyard pretty feces-free, so nowhere for them to reproduce.

    Just adventures in rescues. I have friends who worked for years with rescued wolves, and they had to do a deworming yearly per their doctor, just as a precaution. And also had to get rabies vaccines – I was unaware that was a thing for people, I thought it was only used as a treatment if you were exposed.

  24. 24.

    Starfish

    November 12, 2022 at 11:18 am

    @JML: If only you had been a rugged individualist who did not believe in public health, you would be less cranky.

  25. 25.

    bbleh

    November 12, 2022 at 11:19 am

    Is that true about CO-3? Rats. CNN shows only 0.4% diff but their data are old

  26. 26.

    Miss Bianca

    November 12, 2022 at 11:19 am

    @Brachiator: All right, that was indeed funny. And the only time I’ve willingly watched an ad on Youtube! ; )

  27. 27.

    topclimber

    November 12, 2022 at 11:20 am

    @trucmat: What is the usual story with under counts? A range of nil to significant? Hardly ever a thing?

  28. 28.

    zhena gogolia

    November 12, 2022 at 11:23 am

    @TaMara:

    I keep the backyard pretty feces-free

    New rotating tag!

  29. 29.

    TaMara

    November 12, 2022 at 11:24 am

    @bbleh: That’s what I get, too when I look at the numbers (nothing has changed since Thursday night). But maybe they know something they haven’t dropped yet.

    Interesting – In CO, I don’t know about elsewhere – they hold back about 1k ballots in the preliminary numbers and then add those to the military/overseas ballots so as to be able to keep the anonymity of those voters. So even if it’s only 34 ballots, they get mixed in with a random 1K.

  30. 30.

    Nicole

    November 12, 2022 at 11:25 am

    @TaMara: Sorry about the hookworm.   It’s par for the course adopting from a lot of shelters here in NYC.  Fortunately, it’s not like heartworm; it’s an easier fix.

    Zookeepers get rabies vaccines yearly; I suspect it’s probably something to do with working with wild animals and increased risk, compared to the rest of us.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    November 12, 2022 at 11:27 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Haha. Seconded.

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    November 12, 2022 at 11:27 am

    @JML:

    They’re rarely actually libertarian (especially after the Ron Paul nonsense), just bros who want to smoke pot and not pay taxes.

    Voters in two states approved legalizing recreational cannabis through ballot initiatives on Tuesday’s midterm elections. This is becoming a mainstream position. Libertarians can no longer claim to be especially radical on this point.

    If they were actually libertarian, they would oppose any regulation of abortion or birth control and funny…that never seems to come up!

    But libertarianism simply doesn’t work as a functioning ethos in a modern society.

    Except for wanting no taxation, the stains of racism and sexism seem to keep libertarians yoked to the GOP. Libertarians have always been inconsistent on some of these points. Libertarian avatar Ayn Rand was militantly Pro choice, and free market libertarians should have rejected Trump’s use of tariffs.

    Libertarians and anarchists claim to want to abolish society as most people understand it.

  33. 33.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    November 12, 2022 at 11:27 am

    @JML: just bros who want to smoke pot and not pay taxes

    Don’t forget their desire for unfettered access to guns and ammo :(

  34. 34.

    Miss Bianca

    November 12, 2022 at 11:29 am

    OMG, I just watched that Kyle Clark video and it is funny as hell. Gotta send it to my Libertarian-leaning bro friends and cackle. Thank you, Dan!

  35. 35.

    bbleh

    November 12, 2022 at 11:31 am

    @TaMara:  and IIRC they have until THURSDAY for military/overseas ballots to arrive. So in any case I’d guess they won’t announce a recount until at least the end of the week.

    Oh well. We should know about NV Senate by Monday or Tuesday. Boebert can wait.

  36. 36.

    JML

    November 12, 2022 at 11:34 am

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: but only for the right people of course.

  37. 37.

    elliottg

    November 12, 2022 at 11:34 am

    @Nicole: ​
     
    Noone dare call it misogyny.

  38. 38.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 12, 2022 at 11:36 am

    @Starfish:

    Sexy wood nymphs, you say.

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 12, 2022 at 11:43 am

    @JML:

    Ron Paul was always a republican in libertarian clothing, which has been their reality for a long time.

    small correction: Rand is a Republican in libertarian clothing, Papa Ron was (is?) a segregationist in Libertarian drag

  40. 40.

    jeffreyw

    November 12, 2022 at 11:44 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Splinters, man.  Stay away!

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 12, 2022 at 11:45 am

    @jeffreyw: Good thing I didn’t have a mouthful of coffee there…

  42. 42.

    Joey Maloney

    November 12, 2022 at 11:46 am

    Rand is a Republican in libertarian clothing, Papa Ron was (is?) a segregationist in Libertarian drag

    Tomayto, tomahto.

  43. 43.

    Benw

    November 12, 2022 at 11:47 am

    Unseasonably hot, humid and windy here so my 5k race this morning was bonked. I held my goal pace for about 5 minutes and then took my foot off the gas. But it was a gorgeous morning!

  44. 44.

    Scout211

    November 12, 2022 at 11:53 am

    [I posted this comment downstairs in the wrong thread.  Reposting here:]

    Nice article from The 19th News this morning celebrating Tina Kotek and Maura Healy.

    ETA: You won’t believe how autocorrect changed Kotek’s name. (x for the k). Yikes! All you lucky Oregonians, be sure to proofread before posting her name in your comments!

    Tina Kotek is projected to win the close Oregon governor’s race, according to Decision Desk HQ, joining Maura Healey in Massachusetts as the only other out lesbian governor ever elected in the country.

    Healey and Kotek were among the record number of LGBTQ+ political candidates to win their primaries, according to the Victory Fund, which works to elect LGBTQ+ officials. This year also marked the first time that LGBTQ+ candidates ran in all 50 states.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    November 12, 2022 at 11:56 am

    @Scout211:

    That’s good news.  Oregon looked like it was going to screw itself over.

  46. 46.

    Anoniminous

    November 12, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    How cool is this?

    Grandmother on her knees meets her grandson, who liberated Kherson

  47. 47.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 12, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Scout211: CNN getting blowback (not enough) for a puff-piece on Casey DeSantis, makes me wonder if there’s a Mrs Healy, and where is the profile on the patient helpmeet that I’m sure Mr Gretchen Whitmer is?

    That kind of instantaneous and snarky feedback to legacy media is one reason to hope twitter survives

  48. 48.

    BC in Illinois

    November 12, 2022 at 12:06 pm

    My favorite Ukrainian cat video of the morning:

    From Special Kherson Cat.

  49. 49.

    Amir Khalid

    November 12, 2022 at 12:06 pm

    @Scout211:

    If you speak Malay, as I do, the name Kotek itself already sounds embarrassing.

  50. 50.

    cain

    November 12, 2022 at 12:08 pm

    @trucmat: It always amazes me how they weasel out of these things. They deserve to get kicked out and never come back and not have a political career.

    Either way, I think though this election shows that there is very literal tolerance for colorado cowgirl.

  51. 51.

    Tom Levenson

    November 12, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    @Starfish: Been taking a bit of interest in it. Haven’t dived into the proximate cause for the collapse. I’m stuck in 19th c. anthrax on the current project and trying not to pay much attn. to much else.

    But I have to say I’m neither surprised by the particular failure or the general crypto mess. So many marks. So little time.

    I am curious to know if Musk still has any crypto exposure. My sense was he pumped and dumped and is not now deeply involved, but who knows. It would amuse me if he were.

  52. 52.

    kalakal

    November 12, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Just a bit. It’s ok in Polish though but a sadly a gift for patronizing jerks

  53. 53.

    zhena gogolia

    November 12, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    Cauvin on Tiffany’s wedding
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCwNKWMhhD4

  54. 54.

    CaseyL

    November 12, 2022 at 12:19 pm

    @Starfish: I object to Boyle’s slam against sultry wood nymphs!

    More seriously: the problem isn’t that she enjoys LARPing; the problem is that FTX entrusted people with little experience in finance and risk management with the entire portfolio of investment and risk management.

    And the FTX catastrophe sounds nearly identical to the credit/mortgage meltdown in 2008: stratospherically inflating the value of investment assets and then borrowing against that inflated value.  (The one difference in this case is FTX wasn’t able to spread the loans-against-imaginary-wealth to every bank on the planet.)

  55. 55.

    Cameron

    November 12, 2022 at 12:22 pm

    Perhaps in a few months we’ll need a recipe for turtle soup:

    https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2022/11/the-top-republican-scapegoat-might-be.html

  56. 56.

    Another Scott

    November 12, 2022 at 12:23 pm

    How dare that monster do this!!1 This should be a class action suit, amirite??!!

    Giving free entry into national parks for veterans is a real slap in the face to all the veterans over the years who have had to pay to enter national parks. https://t.co/maJ17iaHEX

    — A.R. Moxon, Ṽerífíed Dück 🦆 (@JuliusGoat) November 12, 2022

    (DOI.gov)

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 12:32 pm

    @Starfish: So apparently the head of FTX was the second biggest donor to the Democratic Party in the 2020 cycle.

    I think it was a cynical play to keep Democrats from pushing increased regulation and scrutiny of Crypto.

  58. 58.

    Another Scott

    November 12, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    May you always be as confident as the data guys predicting the red wave in 2022 https://t.co/xJfD5ePzlI

    — Angry Staffer 🌻 (@Angry_Staffer) November 12, 2022

    Indeed.

    Something, something, mediocre white man.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  59. 59.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 12:38 pm

    @Baud:

    @Scout211:

    That’s good news.  Oregon looked like it was going to screw itself over.

    Kotek almost screwed herself over.  In her role as majority leader in the OR House she has opposed and blocked campaign finance for years.  Ostensibly to protect the influence of her union allies.  OR still has no limits of any kind.   But in this cycle Phil Knight and other out-of-state billionaires decided to drop nearly unlimited funds into the campaigns of her opponents including funding the independent candidate who almost took her out as a spoiler.  Oops.

  60. 60.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 12:40 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:Don’t forget their desire for unfettered access to guns and ammo :(

    And unfiltered social media platforms where they can let their racist and misogynistic  free flags fly.

  61. 61.

    oldgold

    November 12, 2022 at 12:40 pm

    Which party controls the House might be a month to month matter.

    Since January of 2020 through today there have been 15 special House elections.

    This number is not unusual. 67 special elections have been called during the 113th through 117th Congresses.

  62. 62.

    JPL

    November 12, 2022 at 12:41 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I hope that someone tapes trump’s address.   You know he’ll give one.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    November 12, 2022 at 12:42 pm

    @oldgold:

    That would be wild.  Could help with the debt limit.

  64. 64.

    zhena gogolia

    November 12, 2022 at 12:49 pm

    @JPL: Yeah, will be wild!

  65. 65.

    Ken

    November 12, 2022 at 12:51 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I liked this cat video from Number10cat. I think there’s a political analogy lurking in it.

  66. 66.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 12, 2022 at 12:51 pm

    Was just looking at the Kansas Governor race results, there was also a Libertarian candidate and an Independent, with 1.1% and 2% of the vote respectively. I bet their presence on the ballot helped Laura Kelly win. Interesting Kansas City Star article: What went wrong? Kansas Republicans point fingers after Schmidt’s loss to Kelly

    Kansas Republican Attorney General Derek Schmidt on Oct. 24 received what could have been a useful development in the extremely close contest for governor: national assessment scores measuring math and reading had fallen among Kansas students. The drop played right into Schmidt’s criticism of Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly’s decision to become the first governor in the country to switch to remote learning for the remainder of the academic year as COVID-19 spread in the spring of 2020. But Schmidt and his allies that day were focused on drag shows. Schmidt and the Republican Governors Association seized on a report in a British tabloid that Kansas taxpayer dollars had supported a recent open to all ages event in Wichita that included a drag show.

    The RGA and Schmidt sent scalding statements and Schmidt held a late afternoon news conference in Wichita to further condemn Kelly — even as the attack quickly fell apart under scrutiny, with the Kansas Department of Commerce saying no tax dollars funded drag shows. Meanwhile, Schmidt’s campaign took nearly five hours to weigh in on the assessment scores. “It was very much a throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks scenario, I think, in the last month-and-a-half,” said a Republican strategist familiar with the race, who nevertheless defended the late focus on drag shows.

    Schmidt’s loss to Kelly this week was a demoralizing blow to Kansas Republicans, who believed they stood a solid chance of denying her a second term even as they acknowledged the race would be close. Kelly’s victory was historic, as she became the first Kansas Democrat since 1978 to win the governor’s race while the party controls the White House, though some Republicans also noted an incumbent governor hasn’t lost a general election since 1990.

  67. 67.

    West of the Rockies

    November 12, 2022 at 12:53 pm

    @JML:

    My wife and I also got both shots yesterday.  Had a grumbly tiff within five minutes of waking up.

  68. 68.

    Kelly

    November 12, 2022 at 1:00 pm

    Andrea Salinas lead in Oregon CD 6 is less than the votes for the Constitution Party weirdo.

  69. 69.

    artem1s

    November 12, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    @Joey Maloney:

    Rand is a Republican in libertarian clothing, Papa Ron was (is?) a segregationist in Libertarian drag

    Papa Ron wasn’t at all picky about his positions. He was the first small donor grifter. Any issue that would separate $25 from the pocket of a potential donor was fair game. He was in Congress for over a decade and still claimed ‘outsider’ status when he ran (grift ran) for POTUS. His early stuff targeted the usual gold-bug, anti-semite, anti-New World Order conspiracy theorist. His fundraisers were the first to do donor bombing on key reporting dates so his support looked bigger than it actually was. They were the first to claim they didn’t take money from corporations and big donors (they took money from anyone who would write them a check). It was all designed to build hype that would draw in new donors and grab their emails and phone numbers. The leaders of Libertarian party’s main goal isn’t to influence policy, it’s making a career and making money off running for office.

  70. 70.

    Lapassionara

    November 12, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    There was a libertarian candidate in the Georgia senate race. My question is, will they vote in the run off, or will they sit it out. If they vote, do they go R or D?

  71. 71.

    Tdjr

    November 12, 2022 at 1:09 pm

    @Anoniminous: Dusty in here.

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    November 12, 2022 at 1:10 pm

    @NutmegAgain: To reach any of the front pagers, just use their nym at balloon-juice.com

    If they have two names, like John Cole, just put a hyphen in between.

    If you look at Contact Us in the white menu up top, you will see instructions and an example.

  73. 73.

    Sister Golden Bear

    November 12, 2022 at 1:11 pm

    @Brachiator: Reminds me of Christopher Walken in Fat Boy Slim’s “Weapon of Choice” music video (it’s an absolute delight).

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    November 12, 2022 at 1:18 pm

    I’ve seen a couple savvy political analysts express the hope the Fritsch will give Boebert a rematch in 2024. They think he can beat Boebert with a presidential year electorate. I don’t expect to see Boebert make some pragmatic pivot between now and then.

    I’m hoping Elaine Luria will try to reclaim her seat in the Virginia 2nd CD. That might be tougher. Luria lost by ~6%, and Jen Kiggans, the new Rep, is no Boebert.

  75. 75.

    cain

    November 12, 2022 at 1:18 pm

    @Kent: I’m not completely adversed to that considering that I would like to have the teacher’s union to have influence. :)

  76. 76.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 1:21 pm

    @Lapassionara:There was a libertarian candidate in the Georgia senate race. My question is, will they vote in the run off, or will they sit it out. If they vote, do they go R or D?

    I doubt that 1 in 100 of the Libertarian voters in the general election were actual Libertarian party members with a Libertarian ideology who went out and actively voted for the Libertarian candidate.

    I expect the other 99 out of 100 were just ordinary voters who, when they got to the Senate portion of their ballot just voted for the Libertarian guy for whatever reason:  He was the only white guy, a pox on both parties, or they were Republicans who couldn’t stomach voting for Walker.

    How many of them will turn out when only the Senate is on the ballot?  And how will they vote?  Who knows.

  77. 77.

    WaterGirl

    November 12, 2022 at 1:24 pm

    @Lapassionara: Libertarians would vote R.  Unless they have a problem with Walker in particular.

  78. 78.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 1:26 pm

    @cain:@Kent: I’m not completely adversed to that considering that I would like to have the teacher’s union to have influence. :)

    All I’m saying is that she made a deliberate decision to block any restrictions on campaign finance donations that would have limited big donors (unions, corporations, billionaires) from dropping large sums into races.

    And it very nearly bit her in the ass.  Betsy Johnson, the “independent” candidate and former rural Dem (basically a Manchin in skirts) got her campaign jump-started by millions and millions of dollars from Phil Knight and a host of other deep-pocketed out-of-state Republican donors.   Without Johnson in the race it would not have been close.

    The closed OR primaries also led to this result.  It would not have happened under WA or CA’s jungle primaries under which Kotek would have cruised to victory.

  79. 79.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 12, 2022 at 1:29 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Had a grumbly tiff within five minutes of waking up.

    That’s one of them funnily-named English dishes, right? “Pot of tea and a grumbly tiff, please. Side of toad in a hole on a crumpet.”

  80. 80.

    Geminid

    November 12, 2022 at 1:32 pm

    @Kent: A lot of Libertarian voters are oppositional in their motivation, and have no particular allegience to principles. Some of those might stay home, and some of the more principled ones might sit the runoff out too. In any event, there were not that many Libertarian voters, just enough to force a runoff.

    The group I’m interested in are the Kemp/Walker voters. I think many of them came out mainly to stop Stacey Abrams and/or because they like their Governor. A big dropoff among this group would sink Walker.

  81. 81.

    JML

    November 12, 2022 at 1:33 pm

    @Lapassionara: it’s the big question for GA: who drops off in the runoff and how many? Traditionally, dems have struggled to turn out the vote a second time, but we beat that 2 years ago. Trend or blip?

    Right now, I would guess that most of the “libertarians” sit it out, but the real issue is whether or not Warnock can muster as much of his election day vote a second time. Guessing that dems will be slightly more energized since we have a candidate we like, but also because senate control won’t be decided by GA this time (assuming NV continues like it appears). I think that demoralizes GOP voters who sucked it up to vote for Walker, but they’re going to lose a bunch of them in the runoff. But again: traditionally the dems have the steeper drop in the runoff.

  82. 82.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 12, 2022 at 1:34 pm

    @Kent: Con artists and crypto weirdos can be democrats.

  83. 83.

    West of the Rockies

    November 12, 2022 at 1:35 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Oh, and a nice bubble and squeak!

  84. 84.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 12, 2022 at 1:40 pm

    @Kent:

    Do you think this near loss will motivate Kotek and others to push for campaign finance reform in OR?

  85. 85.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 12, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    @artem1s: Ron Paul is a classic paleolibertarian. A dying breed, I’d thought, though an especially devolved version seems to have captured the national party and most state chapters.

    Rand Paul is a Republican who hates occupational licensing.

    @Brachiator: Libertarians are more divided on abortion than a lot of people think because some consider the fetus to be deserving of liberty too.

  86. 86.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 12, 2022 at 1:44 pm

    @Another Scott: A lot of the numbers guys did a pretty good job, especially G. Elliott Morris at The Economist, who explicitly disavowed vibes-based predictions. Worst performer has gotta be Sean Trende at Real Clear Politics, who really thought Trafalgar had the special sauce because their results matched his vibes. His twitter feed is a hilarious pile of cope and confusion and anger, and a weird amount of vitriol about Mastodon.

  87. 87.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 12, 2022 at 1:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think I remember reading here that the Libertarian Party has been captured by white supremacists in the last few years. The so-called Mises caucus.

    The Libertarian Party is collapsing. Here’s why

    Only a few years after its greatest triumph, the Libertarian Party is collapsing, torn apart by an insurgency of alt-right sympathizers with racist tendencies. Libertarianism, the idea that state power must be absolutely minimized, relies on ideas of individual rights that seem flatly inconsistent with racism. And yet libertarian rhetoric has always had powerful attractions for those who wanted to resist racial equality. How is that possible?

    There is in fact a connection, but it is one of psychology and political history rather than logic.

    […]

    On Martin Luther King Jr. Day this year, the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire tweeted (in a later deleted post) that “America isn’t in debt to black people. If anything it’s the other way around.” Caucus members have called for violent repression of antifa and Black Lives Matter protesters. The new leadership’s first and most prominent decision was to remove from the party platform language declaring, “We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant.”

    As a result, the party is facing mass defections. In 2016, Gary Johnson was the most successful Libertarian presidential candidate in history. He got almost 4.5 million votes (3.3 percent of the votes cast, three times more than any previous Libertarian candidate, including Johnson himself in 2012).

    The crackup is in part the result of crass political machinations. The insurgents are funded by donors who have been close to former President Trump, suggesting that the takeover is part of a coordinated Republican stratagem to destroy a party that has been draining away Republican votes. If Trump had gotten every Libertarian vote in 2020, he would have won. The chairman of the New Mexico Libertarian Party wrote that the leadership has “adopted messaging and communications hostile to the principles for which the Libertarian Party was founded, serving no purpose other than to antagonize and embarrass.” That may indeed be the purpose. Battles for control of the state party are also happening in Virginia and Massachusetts.

  88. 88.

    West of the Rockies

    November 12, 2022 at 1:55 pm

    A couple days ago, I really thought Boebert was getting bounced.

  89. 89.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 12, 2022 at 1:56 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): yeah they’re basically if you took Ron Paul entryism, removed all the subtext, and gave it internet poisoning.

  90. 90.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 12, 2022 at 2:04 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    You and me both. Damn.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yup. I thought the most interesting thing the article said was that Trump and others were deliberately trying to destroy the Libertarian Party because it’s candidates frequently act as spoilers for Republicans

  91. 91.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 12, 2022 at 2:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I assume you’ve already nominated it for a rotating tag.

  92. 92.

    Cameron

    November 12, 2022 at 2:14 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: What, what?  No spotted dick?  I say!

  93. 93.

    Kent

    November 12, 2022 at 2:16 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:@Kent: Con artists and crypto weirdos can be democrats.

    Right.  But obviously this particular individual who owned FTX had absolutely MASSIVE dirt and corruption monsters under the bed that he wanted to keep covered up and that would be potentially revealed by increased government scrutiny.

    It is instrumental to look at what TYPE of Democratic candidates he funded.  For example, he dropped a TON of money into one of the OR primary races in favor of another crypto fanboy candidate:  Take a read of this article from the May primary:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1097691538/bitter-feuds-and-crypto-ties-inside-one-of-the-most-expensive-democratic-primari

  94. 94.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 12, 2022 at 2:22 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    @West of the Rockies:

    @Cameron:

    Bangers and mash!

  95. 95.

    zhena gogolia

    November 12, 2022 at 2:36 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Is there a formal process?

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 12, 2022 at 3:12 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): All I know is, there’s a long history of Internet libertarians making a great show of “I don’t see race, you’re the racist” and then announcing that facts and logic scientifically reveal that black people are disadvantaged by genetic IQ inferiority.

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