I had planned to focus today’s post on the G19 meeting, but then events intervened. So let’s get to it because I’m fried. And before anyone else texts or emails: yes, I am aware that it appears that a Russian missile overshot Ukraine, landed in Poland, and killed two Poles. I am up to speed!
Before we get to President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today, we bring you this public service announcement:
Przewodów — that’s pronounced “pshe-voh-doov”. You’re welcome.
— Dr Annabelle Chapman (@AB_Chapman) November 15, 2022
Here is President Zelenskyy’s address to the g19 summit from earlier today. Video below, followed by the English transcript after the jump. That will be followed by the video of his regular address , followed by the English transcript of that daily address as well.
Dear President Widodo!
Dear colleagues! The world’s majority, which stands with us!
I address you in Ukrainian, but in front of each of you on the table you will find our proposals. In your language. In demonstration of respect for you.
I have just returned to our capital. Returned from the city of Kherson.
Kherson is one of the key cities in the south of our country and the only regional centre that Russia managed to occupy after February 24.
And now Kherson is already liberated.
What does it mean? For Ukraine, this liberation operation of our Defence Forces is reminiscent of many battles of the past, which became turning points in the wars of the past.
Those battles symbolized such changes, after which people already knew who will be victorious even though the ultimate victory still had to be fought for.
It is like, for example, D-Day – the landing of the Allies in Normandy. It was not yet a final point in the fight against evil, but it already determined the entire further course of events. This is exactly what we are feeling now.
Now – when Kherson is free.
To liberate our entire land from the Russists, we still will have to fight for a while longer… To fight! However, if the victory will be ours in any case, and we are sure of it, then shouldn’t we try to implement our formula for peace to save thousands of lives and protect the world from further destabilizations?
That is why I want to present our vision of the path to peace – how to actually achieve it. And not only for us, but also for all of you, your allies and partners.
In my statement in September of this year at UN General Assembly, I presented Ukraine’s formula for peace. A formula of peace for the world.
Just when the world was hoping to recover from the blows of the pandemic, the Russian war provoked a whole series of new global challenges. This must be stopped!
There is a set of solutions that need to be implemented. And I want the conversation about it to be public, not behind the scenes. I want it to be discussed in specific terms, and not in broad strokes.
Maybe I’ll go over the allotted time limit.
But the issue of peace is worth it.
I want this aggressive Russian war to end justly and on the basis of the UN Charter and international law. Not “somehow” – according to the apt formulation of the UN Secretary-General António Guterres.
Ukraine should not be offered to conclude compromises with its conscience, sovereignty, territory and independence. We respect the rules and we are people of our word.
Ukraine has always been a leader in peacekeeping efforts, and the world has witnessed it. And if Russia says that it supposedly wants to end this war, let it prove it with actions.
Apparently, one cannot trust Russia’s words, and there will be no Minsks-3, which Russia would violate immediately after signing.
If there are no concrete actions to restore peace, it means that Russia simply wants to deceive all of you again, deceive the world and freeze the war just when its defeats have become particularly notable.
We will not allow Russia to wait it out, build up its forces, and then start a new series of terror and global destabilization.
I am convinced now is the time when the Russian destructive war must and can be stopped.
So, here are the proposals of Ukraine:
The first is radiation and nuclear safety.
No one has the right to blackmail the world with a radioactive disaster. This is an axiom.
However, in front of the eyes of the whole world, Russia has turned our Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant into a radioactive bomb that can explode at any moment. Where will the radiation cloud go? Perhaps towards the territory of the EU. Maybe to Türkiye. Maybe to the Middle East. I consider as criminal even a hypothetical possibility of such a scenario!
Radiation safety must be restored. The IAEA has already provided respective recommendations, confirming all the risks that we have repeatedly raised. Therefore, Russia must immediately withdraw all its militants from the territory of the Zaporizhzhia NPP. The station must be immediately transferred to the control of the IAEA and the Ukrainian personnel. The normal connection of the station to the power grid must be restored immediately so that nothing threatens the stability of the reactors.
We proposed that IAEA missions are sent to all Ukrainian nuclear plants – four of them, 15 nuclear units in total. Plus the Chornobyl plant, which has been shut down and is under conservation. Such missions can verify that any hostile activity against Ukrainian nuclear facilities has indeed ceased.
How long does it take to implement it? Russia can begin the demilitarization of the Zaporizhzhia NPP as early as tomorrow if it is really ready to restore the radioactive safety it violated.
The same goes for the crazy threats of nuclear weapons that Russian officials resort to. There are and cannot be any excuses for nuclear blackmail. And I thank you, dear G-19, for making this clear.
However, please use all your power to make Russia abandon nuclear threats. The basis for such efforts can be the Budapest Memorandum and respective capabilities of the signatory states.
The second challenge is food security.
Thanks to the strong participation of the UN, Türkiye and other partners, we have demonstrated how the cooperation of a few can restore food security for the many.
I believe our export grain initiative deserves an indefinite extension – no matter when the war ends.
The right to food is a fundamental right of every person in the world.
Since July, Ukraine has exported over 10 million tons of food by sea. We can increase exports by several million tons per month. Thus for this I propose to expand the grain export initiative to our other ports – in particular, to the ports of Mykolaiv and “Olvia” in the Mykolaiv region.
I also call on all countries – and in particular your countries, dear G-19 leaders – to join our initiative to help the poorest with food.
We have already launched the initiative – “Grain From Ukraine”. And the first vessel – Nord Vind – leaves for Ethiopia with 27 thousand tons of wheat on board. This is the amount that can feed almost 100,000 people per year. There can be many such ships from Ukraine, and therefore there will be many people in poor countries who are saved from starvation.
Ukraine can export 45 million tons of food this year. And let a significant part of it be directed to those who suffer the most.
What do we propose exactly? Each country can join with a specific contribution and become a co-creator of the victory over hunger and the food crisis.
The third is energy security.
All of you can witness what the Russian terror is aimed at now. This is an attempt to turn the cold into a weapon. A weapon against millions of people.
About 40% of our energy infrastructure were destroyed by the strikes of Russian missiles and Iranian drones used by the occupiers. Every week, Russia blows up our power plants, transformers, and electricity supply lines.
A related goal of this terror is to prevent the export of our electricity to neighbouring countries, which could significantly help them stabilize the energy situation and reduce prices for consumers.
Russia is interested in the energy crisis. And we should all be interested in ending terror.
I thank all our partners who have already helped Ukraine with the supply of air defence and missile defence systems. This allows us to shoot down some of the Russian missiles and Iranian drones. But we must fully protect our sky. I ask you to increase respective assistance!
We have already proposed that a mission of UN experts is sent to the objects of critical energy infrastructure of Ukraine to assess the scope of damage and the needs for restoration, as well as to prevent their further destruction. We need to speed up the dispatch of this mission!
This will be a specific contribution of the international community to the stabilization of the energy situation in Ukraine and Europe, and therefore in the global energy market.
However, regardless of the decisions of the world, any day Russia on its own can simply abandon strikes on Ukrainian energy generation and water and heat supply facilities. Let Russia prove by its rejection of terror that it is really interested in the restoration of peace.
We must also take a fundamental step so that energy resources are no longer used as weapons. Price restrictions on Russian energy resources should be introduced.
If Russia is trying to deprive Ukraine, Europe and all energy consumers in the world of predictability and price stability, the answer to this should be a forced limitation of export prices for Russia. So that the export price was not higher than the production cost. That’s fair. If you take something away, the world has the right to take from you.
The fourth challenge is the release of all prisoners and deportees.
Thousands of our people – military and civilians – are in the Russian captivity. They are subjected to brutal torture – this is mass abuse!
In addition, we know by name 11 thousand children who were forcibly deported to Russia. They are separated from their parents in full knowledge that they have families.
Apart from the children, whose data we know, there are tens of thousands of those who were forcibly deported and about whom we know only indirectly. Among them are many, whose parents were killed by Russian strikes, and now they are being held in the state that murdered them.
Add to that hundreds of thousands of deported adults, and you will see what a humanitarian catastrophe the Russian war has caused.
Add political prisoners – Ukrainian citizens who are held in Russia and in the temporarily occupied territory, in particular in Crimea.
We must release all these people!
I want to point out that we did not find support from the International Committee of the Red Cross. We do not see that they are fully fighting to gain access to the camps, where Ukrainian prisoners of war and political prisoners are held. Neither they are helping to find deported Ukrainians. This self-withdrawal is the self-destruction of the Red Cross as an organization that was once respected.
We cannot wait.
Therefore, we must unite for the sake of the only realistic model of the release of prisoners – “all for all”.
And also for the release of all children and adults who were deported to Russia.
I thank the partners for their efforts, which allowed the release of many Ukrainians and foreign citizens, who were captured by the Russians. And let your leadership and the sincere heart of other leaders, who are present now, help free other Ukrainians as well.
The fifth – implementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity and the world order.
Article 2 of the UN Charter defines everything very clearly. Everything that Russia violated by this war.
Therefore, we must restore the validity of international law – and without any compromises with the aggressor. Because the UN Charter cannot be applied partially, selectively or “at will”.
Russia must reaffirm the territorial integrity of Ukraine within the framework of the relevant resolutions of the UN General Assembly and the applicable international legally binding documents.
It is not up to negotiations.
The sixth challenge is withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities.
There is a clear understanding of how to achieve this.
Russia must withdraw all its troops and armed formations from the territory of Ukraine. Ukraine’s control over all sections of our state border with Russia must be restored.
This will result in a real and complete cessation of hostilities.
Every day of delay means new deaths of Ukrainians, new threats to the world, and an insane increase in losses due to continuation of the Russian aggression – losses for everyone in the world.
The seventh – justice.
This is what stokes the greatest emotions.
Everywhere, when we liberate our land, we see one thing – Russia leaves behind torture chambers and mass burials of murdered people.
This was the case in Bucha and other cities in the north of the country after the occupation. This was the case in the Kharkiv region. The same we observe now in the Kherson region.
As of today, we have a full information about four hundred and thirty children killed by Russian strikes. Only children! And only those about whom we know everything for sure.
And how many mass graves are there in the territory that still remains under the control of Russia? What will we see in Mariupol?
That is why the world should endorse establishment of the Special Tribunal regarding the crime of Russia’s aggression against Ukraine and the creation of an international mechanism to compensate for all the damages caused by this war. Compensation at the expense of Russian assets, because it is the aggressor who must do everything to restore the justice violated by it.
We have already proposed a resolution of the UN General Assembly regarding an international compensation mechanism for damages caused by the Russian war. It is endorsed. We ask you to implement it.
We are also preparing the second resolution – on the Special Tribunal. Please join and support it.
Because there is no such nation in the world that does not appreciate justice.
The eighth challenge is ecocide, the need for immediate protection of environment.
Millions of hectares of forest were burned by shelling. Almost two hundred thousand hectares of our land are contaminated with unexploded mines and shells. Dozens of coal mines are flooded, including the mine in which an underground nuclear test explosion was carried out in 1979…
This is the “Yunkom” mine in the Donetsk region. It is located on the territory occupied by Russia. It has been flooded for several years – precisely because of the occupiers. Everyone in Moscow knows what a threat it poses not only to the rivers in the Donetsk region, but also to the Black Sea basin. Only the de-occupation of our territory can provide the conditions for the elimination of this threat.
It is impossible to accurately calculate the amount of atmospheric pollution from burnt oil depots and other fires… As well as from blown up sewage facilities, burned chemical plants, innumerable burial sites of slayed animals.
Just imagine this – due to the Russian aggression, 6 million domestic animals died. 6 million! These are official numbers. At least 50,000 dolphins were killed in the Black Sea. Thousands of hectares of soil are contaminated with harmful substances – most of them are fertile soils. Were fertile soils.
During the last week’s Climate Summit in Egypt, I proposed a platform to assess the environmental damage of war. We have to implement it.
We must also find common responses to all environmental threats created by the war. Without this, there will be no return to a normal, stable life, and the reverberations of the war will remain for a long time – in the explosions of mines that will take the lives of children and adults, in the pollution of water, soil and atmosphere.
I thank all the countries that are already helping us with demining. There is an urgent need for an increased number of equipment and experts for these operations.
Funds and technologies are also needed for the restoration of water treatment facilities.
This is not just a Ukrainian problem. This is a challenge for the whole world.
The next – the ninth – is the prevention of escalation.
A risk that still exists and will remain until our security is properly ensured.
Ukraine is not a member of any of the alliances. And Russia was able to start this war precisely because Ukraine remained in the grey zone – between the Euro-Atlantic world and the Russian imperialism. Now we do not have any security assurances either. So, how can we prevent repetition of Russia’s such aggression against us?
We need effective security assurances. That is why we prepared a draft agreement – the Kyiv Security Compact, and have already presented it to partners.
Thus, we should hold an international conference to cement the key elements of the post-war security architecture in the Euro-Atlantic space, including guarantees for Ukraine.
The main outcome of the conference should be the signing of the Kyiv Security Compact.
We can do it any time – even this year. And we must do it.
And the tenth – confirmation of the end of the war.
When all the antiwar measures are implemented, when security and justice begin to be restored, a document confirming the end of the war should be signed by the parties.
I would like to emphasize that none of the steps above can take long. A month for one step at the most. For some steps, a couple of days are enough.
We already have a positive experience with the grain export initiative. How does it work?
There is the UN – and two other parties to the agreements: on one side Ukraine, Türkiye and the UN, and on the other side Russia, Türkiye and the UN.
Implementation of each of the points I have just presented can be worked out in a similar fashion. States ready to take the lead in this or that decision can become parties to the arrangement.
Once again:
radiation and nuclear safety; food security; energy security; release of all prisoners and deported persons; implementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity and the world order; withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities; restoration of justice; countering ecocide; preventing escalation; and finally – confirmation of the end of the war.
Dear leaders!
I have outlined the paths each of you can choose for yourself – how to become a co-creator of peace.
Please choose your path for leadership – and together we will surely implement the peace formula.
What will it do?
It will save thousands of lives. It will restore the validity of international law. It will revitalize the security architecture. It will return the global stability, without which the whole world is suffering. In essence – this is what the honest countries of the world are cooperating for.
Peace is a global value. That, which is important for every person in the world.
I am confident that it is likewise for each of you, leaders of G-19.
I have outlined specific, practical solutions. They can be implemented. Quickly. They are effective.
And if Russia opposes our peace formula, you will see that it only wants war.
Ukraine is grateful to everyone in the world who helps us to protect freedom and to restore peace.
Let our joint efforts be crowned with success as soon as possible and be reflected in the outcomes of this summit.
Thank you for the invitation!
Glory to Ukraine!
Putin did not take President Zelenskyy’s address to the G19 well. Russia immediately began an extended bombardment of Ukraine once again targeting civilian infrastructure: residential areas, as well as power generation and transmission. President Zelenskyy’s address to Ukraine deals with Putin’s tantrum.
Fellow Ukrainians!
Today, the enemy launched another massive missile attack on our country.
A total of 90 missiles. Energy system, enterprises, and residential buildings were damaged.
And when did it happen?
As soon as the first day of the G20 summit ended in Indonesia, the most significant statements were made, the key meetings took place.
Russia is told about peace, but it fires missiles in response. It is told about the global crises that Russia caused, and it launches Iranian drones in response.
It is offered ten points to end the war, and it fires ten missiles per each point about peace.
At half past three this morning I joined the summit to present our proposals for restoring international peace and order. The world heard Ukraine. G19 members made their statements…
And then in Moscow they decided that they could try again to achieve with terror what they could not and would not be able to achieve for the ninth month.
15:24 – rocket, Kyiv. And throughout the country… How we lived today…
15:54 – rocket, Kropyvnytskyi.
15:56 – two rockets, Kirovohrad region.
15:56 – rocket, Zhytomyr region. And also – Ivano-Frankivsk region, Rivne region, Kharkiv region…
16:29 – rocket, Kryvyi Rih.
16:29 – rocket, Poltava region.
16:35 – Zhytomyr region again. Kyiv region, Lviv region, Odesa region, Mykolaiv region. And also – Volyn, Khmelnytskyi, Ternopil region… And again Kyiv.
Killed and wounded people. My condolences to the families!
In many cities and regions of our country, there are again emergency blackouts. About ten million Ukrainians are without electricity. Most of them – as of this moment – in Kharkiv region, Zhytomyr region, Kyiv region and Lviv region. Lviv and some other cities suspended the supply of heat… All over the country there are problems with communication and the Internet.
As a result of the strikes, automation today disabled several nuclear units at two stations – these are calculated consequences, and the enemy knew exactly what he was doing.
This is the answer of Russia to Indonesia, India, China and all other countries that talked about the need to end the war. Russia is telling the world that it wants to continue. Now it is time for the world to answer.
Moreover, what we warned about a long time ago happened today. We’ve been telling this. Terror is not limited to our national borders. It has already spread to the territory of Moldova. And today, Russian missiles hit Poland, the territory of our friendly country. People died. Please accept condolences from all Ukrainian brothers!
How many times has Ukraine said that the terrorist state will not be limited to our country?
Poland, the Baltic states… It’s only a matter of time before Russian terror goes further. We must put the terrorist in his place! The longer Russia feels impunity, the more threats there will be to everyone who can be reached by Russian missiles.
Hitting NATO territory with missiles… This is a Russian missile attack on collective security! This is a really significant escalation. Action is needed.
And I want to tell all our Polish brothers and sisters now… Ukraine will always support you! Terror will not break free people! Victory is possible when there is no fear! We don’t have it, neither do you.
I want to thank all partners who help protect the sky. In particular, our NASAMS systems worked well today: ten hits out of ten launches.
As of this hour, more than 70 missiles and 10 combat drones have been shot down.
I thank all our American and European friends who help us ensure such a result.
I am also grateful to all our warriors of the “South”, “Center”, “East” and “West” air commands, as well as air defense units of the Ground Forces.
I am grateful to all our rescuers, our energy workers who will work round the clock to restore normal life for Ukrainians. Restoration work has begun across the country.
We will get through this too. We will restore everything.
Russia opposes itself to the world. Russia loses on the battlefield. Russia terrorizes us and everyone it can reach. Let’s do everything to stop it!
Glory to all who defend freedom!
Glory to all who work for our victory!
Eternal memory to all those whose lives were taken by terrorists!
Glory to Ukraine!
#Ukraine is under attack of #russian missiles. A residential building in #Kyiv is damaged. Ukrainian emergency services on site. Air raid alert goes on. There is a threat of new missiles coming. #RussiaIsATerroristState &must be held accountable for its crimes with all severance. pic.twitter.com/f9x3Rduqup
— Emine Dzheppar (@EmineDzheppar) November 15, 2022
It appears that Russia overshot Lviv during today’s barrage and, as a result, a pair of its rockets landed in Poland killing two Poles.
"Two stray rockets fell in the [Polish] village of Przewodów in the Lublin province near the border with Ukraine – Radio ZET has learned unofficially. They hit grain dryers. Two people died. The police, prosecutor's office and the army are in place" https://t.co/WIQNBAOWG7
— Shashank Joshi (@shashj) November 15, 2022
“We received a report of an explosion at the drying yard. In fact, upon arrival we confirm that something like this happened. Two people died on the spot. At the moment we are securing the scene and lighting up the area of action.” https://t.co/dMIAH88RlW
— Shashank Joshi (@shashj) November 15, 2022
It is possible that what killed the two Poles was the remnants of a Russian rocket that was intercepted by Ukrainian air defense:
Polish reporter on blasts tonight: My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a [Russian] rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. https://t.co/h4B8wjgT7U
— Paul Cunningham (@RTENewsPaulC) November 15, 2022
The Polish national security leadership immediately went into emergency meetings.
Poland is also raising military readiness across the country.
— Piotr Zalewski (@p_zalewski) November 15, 2022
The Ukrainians, the Estonians, the Latvians, the US, and a number of other NATO allies have all expressed solidarity with Poland with the NATO members reinforcing they fully support NATO and all the allies within the alliance.
What is most likely to happen, despite a whole bunch of people immediately hitting the freak out button and tweeting about an invocation of Article V, is that Poland will invoke Article IV.
What is Article IV you ask?
The consultation process and Article 4
All NATO decisions are made by consensus, after discussion and consultation among member countries. Consultation between member states is therefore at the heart of NATO since Allies are able to exchange views and information, and discuss issues prior to reaching agreement and taking action.
- Consultation is a key part of NATO’s decision-making process since all decisions are made by consensus.
- It takes place on all subjects of interest to the Alliance, including NATO’s day-to-day business, its core objectives and fundamental role.
- Consultation reinforces NATO’s political dimension by giving members the opportunity to voice opinions and official positions. It also gives NATO an active role in preventive diplomacy by providing the means to help avoid military conflict.
- In Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, members can bring any issue of concern, especially related to the security of a member country, to the table for discussion within the North Atlantic Council.
- Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked several times, for instance by Türkiye.
Different Forms of Consultation
Consultation takes many forms. At its most basic level it involves simply the exchange of information and opinions. At another level it covers the communication of actions or decisions, which governments have already taken or may be about to take. Finally, it can encompass discussion with the aim of reaching a consensus on policies to be adopted or actions to be taken.
In sum, consultation is continuous and takes place both on a formal and informal basis. It can happen quickly due to the fact that all member states have permanent delegations at NATO Headquarters in Brussels. Governments can come together at short notice whenever necessary, often with prior knowledge of their respective national preoccupations, in order to agree on common policies or take action on the basis of consensus. NATO’s network of committees facilitates consultation by enabling government officials, experts and administrators to come together on a daily basis to discuss a broad range issues.
The principle of consensus decision-making is applied throughout NATO, which means that all “NATO decisions” are the expression of the collective will of all sovereign states that are members of this inter-governmental organisation. While consensus decision-making can help a member country preserve national sovereignty in the area of defence and security, Article 4 can be an invitation for member countries to concede this right to the group or it can simply lead to a request for NATO support.
Article 4
Under Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, member countries can bring an issue to the attention of the North Atlantic Council (Council or NAC – NATO’s principal political decision-making body) and discuss it with Allies. The article states:
“The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.”
Any member country can formally invoke Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty. As soon as it is invoked, the issue is discussed and can potentially lead to some form of joint decision or action on behalf of the Alliance. Whatever the scenario, fellow members sitting around the Council table are encouraged to react to a situation brought to their attention by a member country.
Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked seven times. On 24 February 2022, Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia requested to hold consultations under Article 4 following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
On 26 July 2015, Türkiye made the same request in view of the seriousness of the situation following terrorist attacks, and to inform Allies of the measures it was taking. Poland invoked Article 4 on 3 March 2014 following increasing tensions in neighbouring Ukraine, as a result of Russia’s aggressive actions. On two occasions in 2012, Türkiye requested a NAC meeting under Article 4: once on 22 June after one of its fighter jets was shot down by Syrian air defence forces and the second time on 3 October when five Turkish civilians were killed by Syrian shells. Following these incidents, on 21 November, Türkiye requested the deployment of Patriot missiles. NATO agreed to this defensive measure so as to help Türkiye defend its population and territory, and help de-escalate the crisis along the border.
Previously, on 10 February 2003, Türkiye formally invoked Article 4, asking for consultations in the NAC on defensive assistance from NATO in the event of a threat to its population or territory resulting from armed conflict in neighbouring Iraq. NATO agreed a package of defensive measures and conducted Operation Display Deterrence from end February to early May 2003.
The political dimension of NATO
Encouraging members of an inter-governmental organisation who have not given up their right of free and independent judgment in international affairs to consult more systematically on an issue is a challenge – be it today or in the 1950s.
In the early 1950s, the NAC recognised NATO’s consultative deficiency on international issues and recommended that measures be taken to improve the process. In April 1954, a resolution on political consultation was adopted:
“… all member governments should bear constantly in mind the desirability of bringing to the attention of the Council information on international political developments whenever they are of concern to other members of the Council or to the Organization as a whole; and (…) the Council in permanent session should from time to time consider what specific subject might be suitable for political consultation at one of its subsequent meetings when its members should be in a position to express the views of their governments on the subject.” C-M(54)38.
The resolution, which was put forward by Canada and immediately approved, provoked nonetheless a reaction from the American representative:
“Mr. Dulles (United States) supported the Canadian resolution on the understanding that consultation would be limited within the bounds of common sense. Countries like his own with world-wide interests might find it difficult to consult other NATO governments in every case. For a sudden emergency, it was more important to take action than to discuss the emergency. In other words, consultation should be regarded as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself.” (C-R(54)18).
The reservations made by the United States, which no doubt were shared by other member countries, could still be voiced today. Building on this resolution, on 8 March 1956, the then Secretary General of NATO, Lord Ismay, made a statement which widened the debate by explaining the consequences of systemising political consultation within the Alliance:
“A direct method of bringing home to public opinion the importance of the habit of political consultation within NATO may be summed up in the proposition “NATO is a political as well as a military alliance”. The habitual use of this phraseology would be preferable to the current tendency to refer to NATO as a (purely) military alliance. It is also more accurate. To refer to NATO as a political alliance in no sense denies, depreciates or deprecates the fact that the alliance is also military.” (C-M(56)25-1956).
The same year, the “Three Wise Men” produced their report, which inter alia sought to improve consultation within the Alliance on issues of common concern (“Report of the Committee of Three on Non-Military Cooperation in NATO”). However, ironically it was published as the Suez crisis emerged. Suez severely divided the leading founding members of the Organization (France, the United Kingdom and the United States). The Suez crisis acted as a catalyst for NATO, leading it to put into practice something it knew was of vital importance for the unity and solidarity of the Alliance – political consultation.
“Animus in consulendo liber”
For its anecdotal value, it is worth noting that when NATO moved to its headquarters at the Porte Dauphine in Paris, in December 1959, the then Secretary General, M. Paul-Henri Spaak, enlisted the help of the Dean of the Council in finding a suitable Latin maxim which would capture the spirit of consultation between Allies to which he attached so much importance. The Dean, Belgian Ambassador André de Staercke, recalled a visit he had made to the Tuscan town of San Gimignano. There, in the Palazzo del Podestà, engraved on the back of the seat reserved for the man who presided over the destinies of the city, he had seen the motto: Animus in consulendo liber.
It seems that an entirely satisfactory translation of the phrase cannot be found, although a French version “l’esprit libre dans la consultation” comes close. Renderings in English have ranged from the cryptic “in discussion a free mind” to the more complex “Man’s mind ranges unrestrained in counsel”.
The motto adorned the conference area at the Porte de Dauphine for several years and, in 1967, was moved to NATO’s
home in Brussels, where it graced the wall of the Council room, as it does now in the current headquarters (constructed across the road from the previous headquarters in Brussels).Setting Up a Consultation System
As explained above, consultation and consensus were accepted as the basis for all NATO decisions when the Alliance was created in 1949.
However, it was only gradually that NATO set up a consultation system. In broad terms, this was done in three stages:
- 1949-1952: at the signing of the Treaty, NATO introduced the consultation process as a key principle in its working mechanisms. This was reinforced at the Lisbon Conference (1952) where the contours of today’s NATO were put into place: the NAC was made permanent and the position of Secretary General was created, together with an international staff that would support Council decisions on a permanent basis;
- 1952-1956: between 1952 and the publishing of the Committee of Three report on non-military cooperation, attempts had been made to encourage political consultation beyond the geographical limitations defined in the founding treaty, i.e, beyond the defined NATO area.
- From 1956: the principles of the Report of the Committee of Three were further developed and implemented. The Committee recommended measures in the area of political cooperation with regard to foreign policies, the peaceful settlement of inter-member disputes, economic cooperation, scientific and technical cooperation, cultural cooperation and cooperation in the information field.
The Committee of Three left a lasting legacy by encouraging NATO members to reconcile differences within the Organization through productive consultation on matters of common concern, including issues outside the defined NATO area. The Suez crisis provided a first-hand example of why close political consultation and non-military cooperation are necessary.
The Fora for Political Consultation
The principal forum for political consultation is the North Atlantic Council. The NAC is NATO’s principal political decision-making committee. The Secretary General, by virtue of his chairmanship, plays an essential part in this process. Consultation also takes place on a regular basis in other fora, including NATO committees and working groups. All of these bodies derive their authority from the Council.
Article IV makes more sense than immediately going right to an alliance wide mutual defense invocation. Especially as this was most likely a Russian overshot of the intended target of Lviv, or, at least that being a plausible cover for a Russian provocation. Or it was, as the Polish reporter for Radio ZET, Mariusz Gierszewski reported, a Russian missile intercepted by Ukrainian air defense that came down across the Polish-Ukrainian border. I expect that cooler heads will prevail here. Even if there is overwhelming evidence and intelligence that Russia actually intended this as a provocation to see what NATO would do. If that’s the case, expect a different type of response. One that we might never actually know about.
Here’s some visuals of the debris:
SMOKING GUN: @TpyxaNews has posted this evidence of a RU attack on Poland. Right, debris recovered in Przewodow tonight; and, Left, wreckage from a 31 OCT cruise missile strike on Kyiv. Debris from Poland confirms that a Russian Kh-101 cruise missile struck the Polish village. https://t.co/6aWQaPMVS4 pic.twitter.com/UDkUKDWX8N
— Chuck Pfarrer | Indications & Warnings | (@ChuckPfarrer) November 15, 2022
I think that’s enough for tonight.
In case anyone is interested:
Hey!
Who wanted a bracelet made of real Azovstal steel?
A new batch is for sale. Delivery to Ukraine, European nations, the U.S., and Canada.
The money made from the sale will be spent to buy Ukraine a fleet of naval drones.https://t.co/UGcPFo6My2— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) November 15, 2022
Your daily Patron!
It is difficult even to call it a war. It is a mass murder. https://t.co/cN8terfAly
— Patron (@PatronDsns) November 15, 2022
I want to express my condolences to the families of the two people who died in a rocket attack today in Poland. @NATO while establishing the facts, it may take a long time. Unfortunately, those two people don't have time anymore. pic.twitter.com/WxHQlnJ2Yc
— Patron (@PatronDsns) November 15, 2022
And a new video from Patron’s official TikTok:
@patron__dsns
The caption is just his normal hashtags: #PatrontheDog, #PatronDSNS, #SlavaUkraini.
Another Scott
TVPWorld.com – livestream (in English) – it’s a Polish news program, talking about the missile landing in Poland.
(via Oryx)
Cheers,
Scott.
SpaceUnit
So if I read this correctly NATO is gonna talk about it.
Sparkedcat
The deaths in Poland are a direct result of Russian actions. Russia must and will be held to account for the war crimes that are being committed on a daily basis against the people of Ukraine. Slava Ukraini! Thank-you for these updates Mr. Silverman.
Omnes Omnibus
No military reason for country wide shelling/rocket attacks. Pure war crime. Also, if what hit Poland was really 8km inside the Polish border, there is no earthly excuse for being that far out of safe.*
*Any professional artillery unit will have certain limits places on the directions and angles at with the guns can be fired or rockets launched. This is to prevent shelling things like churches, hospitals, and national fucking borders. It is possible that you can still hit them by fucking up, but 8km is well beyond oopsie.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Maybe they are going to request deploying missle defense systems to their borders.
SpaceUnit
Considering that the two missiles struck not only the same village but the same grain facility I think it’s unlikely they were randomly deflected by defensive measures.
Cameron
@Omnes Omnibus: What would lead you to believe that professionals were involved?
rekoob
For what it’s worth, the PBS Newshour’s Judy Woodruff (I know, I know…) had an interesting interview with Ivo Daalder, Obama’s Ambassador to NATO, in which he touches on both Articles IV and V:
PBS Newshour
Baud
From a random Reddit commenter.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cameron: I think that was rather my point in a manner of speaking.
Another Scott
@SpaceUnit: The Polish MFA statement says “a Russian-made missile”.
It’s still early. I’m sure more details and explanations will come out. Things are always garbled in early reports.
Slow, thoughtful discussions are the right approach right now.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anoniminous
We know Russian military is run and staffed by incompetents We know the idiots are capable of entering their own location for the target coordinates because there is video evidence of aforesaid idiots blowing themselves up with their own missile. Thus, it is most likely the missiles were programmed with the wrong target Information.
Still doesn’t excuse them. They will have to fax the consequences. The Baltics and Polish hate the Russians and, I’ll predict, push as hard as they can to get the maximum punishment the can work g out of the rest of NATO.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Scott:
You must be new here.
SpaceUnit
@Another Scott:
Slow thoughtful discussions? This is BJ.
Cameron
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry – I’m a bit off-kilter this evening.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Baud: A deliberate provocation? Up to now, every accusation has been a confession with Russia. I would have thought it was a stray missile, but that is not the response I would have expected from them were that so. They are really playing with fire. They are already overstretched. If they provoke a war with all of NATO, it would be an absolute disaster for Russia on an unimaginable scale
To add to that, I don’t see China or Iran coming to their rescue either. They would be entirely on their own.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Here’s your Russian targeteers:
SpaceUnit
So basically Russia is using guys who were driving taxis three weeks ago to launch missiles near the border of a NATO country.
What could go wrong?
Adam L Silverman
@SpaceUnit: I’m just posting what Polish reporters are reporting.
bbleh
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
This exactly, I think. This was an entirely foreseeable possibility given that they were firing rockets that near the border. They knew or should have known it could happen, which means they either were willing to take the risk or are colossally stupid (and I think the former is far more likely). There would be no way to demonstrate intent, and it would be significantly escalatory to allege it and respond accordingly, so NATO won’t. What will happen instead is a lot of calibrated finger-wagging plus, I would guess, provision of additional support to Ukraine that might not otherwise have been the case. Russia will get a message and pay a material price, and we won’t have a general war.
SpaceUnit
@Adam L Silverman:
Yes, I realize that. Thank you as always for your updates.
Cameron
@Adam L Silverman: I think we can see where Elon Musk’s new engineering team is coming from.
Alison Rose
@Baud: Yes, I believe them. Sure. Totally.
To me, it doesn’t matter if it was accidental or the result of them being shot down or whatever. We know russia doesn’t give a fuck, and I do hope something tangible will be done in response.
Zelenskyy’s speech to the G19 was really masterful, unsurprisingly. He has a way of putting things that make it seem impossible not to concur. I mean, unless you’re an asshole.
Thank you as always, Adam.
CaseyL
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yup. “Every accusation a confession.”
What really got my attention, though, was Zelenskyy’s address to the G19. He is not pulling any punches, he is not tiptoeing around what Ukraine needs and what the world must do, and he’s talking about deterring future aggression (and economic blackmail) by anyone.
This is a “birth of of the UN” worthy speech. A speech that could (and damned well should) have major, global ramifications. Delivered by the only person who could give it.
I’m beyond impressed with this man. Ukraine has to win, not only for its own sake, but because I very much want to see Zelenskyy take his rightful place as one of the leaders of the Free World, helping to build a new era of cooperation among nations.
Alison Rose
@CaseyL: IMO he already is the leader of the free world, or at least one of them. As he has said many times, Ukraine isn’t fighting just to defend their own land, but to also protect the rest of Europe and the world from putin’s metastasizing demonic ego. And the way he has so smoothly embodied that role and the amount he has had on his shoulders the whole time…it’s honestly awe-inspiring.
I understood, even if I didn’t like it, the decision by the Nobel committee not to give him the peace prize this year (although what they did do with it was 2/3 stupid). But if he doesn’t get it next year–at which time I firmly believe Ukraine will have long been celebrating its total victory over russia–I swear I will fly to Sweden and slap every person on the committee myself.
(I won’t do that because I can’t even leave my apartment. BUT I WILL THINK ABOUT DOING IT A LOT.)
dr. luba
My cousin Inna in Kyiv is the director of a pre-school/kindegarten (“sadochok”). She wrote me today:
Today there was a strong explosion 500 meters from my kindergarten.
I was at work, sitting in the office, the ground shook so much that I could barely sit in my chair.
I ran outside and a huge black cloud stood over my school.
The rocket hit the house next to the school.
I cried and cried.
A window broke in the room near my office.
Then I went to that building, it’s near my home, and there were fragments from an air defense missile. Two apartments were damaged; it’s the 6th building from ours, and debris from the missile had fallen onto the roof of the second entrance, windows were blown out on people’s balconies
Near my home cars were damaged, it was so scary, there was no power for a long time, and it’s been out at work since 3:45 p.m. (written at 9 p.m.).
Very scary
When will this horror end!?!?!
She also added a link to the same video that’s in the tweet above from Patron, saying this was the building near her that had been hit.
Taken4Granite
Is this anything like faxing credenzas?
dr. luba
@bbleh: And this :
Biden asks for over $37 billion in emergency Ukraine aid
Alison Rose
@dr. luba: God, I am so sorry for what she and everyone else there is going through. I can’t begin to imagine the trauma from all of this.
Another Scott
@Gin & Tonic: @SpaceUnit:
Heh. :-)
To be clear, I meant at the ministerial level, etc.
(Just about) Anything goes here. As I said downstairs, the missile hitting 5 miles from the border is not a small miss. A professional military would be horrified; but these are russian vatniks we’re dealing with here… :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Dan B
@dr. luba: Condolences to your cousin and you. It must be very difficult for you to feel powerless to ameliorate her fear. Hugs and hopes you have ways to take care of yourself. This war reminds me of the AIDS decades. The suffering and death were random and brutal. There seemed no way to stop it. I had a fight with a good friend I’d known since childhood. I didn’t answer his call a week later I was so angry. A month later I found out he was calling from the hospital and had died. The memory brings tears to this day.
dr. luba
@Dan B: A friend in Kyiv is generally worse off. Her husband is terminally ill, she is caring for him at home (late stage prostate cancer). He’s on oxygen, I assume a concentrator, and the power keeps going off recently due to Russian attacks on the power grid.
Also, when the air raid sirens go off, she and her grandson move him into the hallway, and hide in the bathrooms. They can’t get him to a shelter.
Gin & Tonic
@Alison Rose: Sorta OT, but a warm “thank-you” for posting that gift link to the NYT piece about the Ukrainian train network downstairs. I’ve read part and will finish it later, but people in the US really can’t understand how vital the train system is there.
Adam L Silverman
@dr. luba: I’m very sorry to read that. I will continue to keep good thoughts for her and all her fellow Ukrainians.
dr. luba
@Dan B: Thanks. It’s stressful, but not like in the early days of the war. So far everyone I know is OK, but that could change in a minute.
Ukrainians are just learning to put up with the war. Happy times, times of peace, have been a rarity there in the last century.
Andrya
@dr. luba: How unspeakably horrible. I’ll say a prayer for them.
wombat probabilty cloud
@Anoniminous: Maybe bad latitude inputs, ok longitude? Wonder if they have been tracked as to origin, or at least transit point on Ukranian border. Having said that, intentional is my first guess.
Origuy
Gogol Bordello is a punk band based in the US made of of musicians from all over the world, including their frontman Eugene Hütz, from Ukraine. They have been doing a benefit tour for Ukraine. Here’s a song from one of their concerts.
From their Facebook page, I got a link to a team of artists based in Kyiv called ArtDopomoga. Their online shop sells stickers, music, and some beautiful textiles.
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: You’re very welcome! I keep thinking I need to ditch my subscription, because, you know, they often suck. But they do have good stuff sometimes and this way, I’m taking one for the team and can get the gift links :)
I also only got partway through, but so far it’s fascinating. There is so much to learn about the country. I feel like I’m honoring the memory of my Great-Grandpa Nathan, from Lviv, by doing so :)
Sally
If it is a Russian missile that hit the grain structure in Poland, I do believe we, the West, NATO has to respond, this time. Whether is was incompetence or deliberate, it presents Putin with another opportunity to probe for responses. For twenty years he has been doing just this and finding relatively weak responses. From invading other countries, shooting down passenger airplanes, supporting the use of chemical weapons, murdering foreign nationals, murdering journalists and opposition leaders, the responses have told Putin that he can continue to push the boundaries. And now, here we are. If he discovers that he can get away with accidental, incompetent and/or deliberate attacks on the food infrastructure of a NATO country, what next?
I am nobody and know nothing, but (ha), maybe Poland could set up air defence systems on their border with Ukraine, and threaten to shoot down any missile their air defences can reach, just in case it’s headed to or “accidentally” lands in, Poland. No boots on ground, no NATO as such, just Poland protecting Polish soil. We surely can’t just wave our fingers and say “Naughty naughty Putin”.
Anyway, I am sure I will be inundated with sensible reasons why not. Lots of people are talking about responding with a no-fly zone over western Ukraine, but that strikes me as being much much more aggressive and dangerous. We don’t need to shoot down Russian jets and pilots. Just the missiles. That would be a huge help to Ukraine as well.
Chetan Murthy
@Sally: Both Biden and Duda seem to be saying that the trajectory of the missle doesn’t indicate that it was fired from Russia. But really, (a) we still don’t know yet for sure, and (b) Russia is still at fault, and we need to bolster Ukraine so that this doesn’t happen again.
Steeplejack
That cat still gets me every time. I downloaded the image to save it. It’s now in my curated collection with “I regret nothing.”
kalakal
@dr. luba: I am so sorry to hear about what your cousin and friend are going through. May Putin and his goons soon be in no position to harm anyone
NutmegAgain
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ll bet somebody’s already said this, but schools, hospitals etc seem to be specific targets of the vatniks, no? So, no way avoiding civilian targets factors into their planning.
Sally
@Chetan Murthy:
We certainly need to be reasonably sure. Could it have come from Belarus, I wonder. In which case, it’s the same thing. If it wasn’t fired by the Ru Targeteers (thx Dr. S.), I believe there still needs to be a response, as Putin will be looking closely to see what he can get away with next. Putin and the targeteers need to know that if their aim and weapons are so poor, they better stay well within the borders so this can never happen again.
PS, thank you Adam and everyone for these updates and comments.
NutmegAgain
@SpaceUnit: That’s the list that Bellingcat came out with a little while ago. I tend to trust their assessments of personnel.
Tony G
@Sally: That sounds like a very reasonable and correct response. Others who know more than me can point out its flaws (if there are any).
NutmegAgain
@Origuy: OT–so much fun live! I’ll admit, I haven’t been to a show in 5+ years. Aged out of the club/concert scene. But for anyone with the stamina (and–if you’re not used to live punk shows, foam earplugs) it’s a show worth seeing. Atrios always called it “Gypsy shit”, in the best possible way. Hutz is part Rom, so that all factors in.
Carlo Graziani
@Alison Rose: I had missed that! Reading it now. Thank you!
Ksmiami
Sink the Black Sea fleet- by accident of course…
Carlo Graziani
Jesus, Kupyansk railyard is open for business.
Anyway
@Origuy:
I’ve seen Gogol Bordello in concert a few times (pre-2020). They are exciting live.
dr. luba
@Alison Rose: Can you repost the link? I’ve spent a lot of time on Ukrainian trains, and would be interested in reading it.
NutmegAgain
@Anyway: Exciting is one word for it! No, seriously, lots of fun.
A little more apropos, Eugene Hutz is one of the leads* in a wonderful film set in Ukraine, that’s really about the Holocaust as it reverberates in the lives of descendants, Everything is Illuminated. Actually one of my very favorite movies.
*Also Elijah Wood
phdesmond
@Origuy: cool merchandise at the store.
Carlo Graziani
@dr. luba: Here’s the gift link.
Alison Rose
@Carlo Graziani: Thanks!
SpaceUnit
@NutmegAgain:
I’m not a military guy so I’m definitely out of my wheelhouse here. But the Russians have personnel to scheme up military strategy with regards to missile strikes, folks to determine targets in order to implement that strategy, other folks to locate those targets in enemy territory and access the risks of collateral damage and yet other people to calculate the exact coordinates for those targets. Those I assume are the officers on that list, and I’m also guessing that they’re doing their jobs from a relatively safe distance from the front lines in a secured, heavily fortified and secret facility.
So I’m inclined to suspect they’re maybe not the soldiers who are actually hands-on directing the missiles and executing the launch.
I could be wrong, of course. I’m wrong a lot.
The Pale Scot
@Origuy:
Holy Shit, that’s Yuri on the accordion! He’s been gone for years, I could never find out anything about what was happening with him, I thought the worst had happened.
Fck Yea!!!!
The Pale Scot
There are AWACs, Riven Joints and J-Stars rotating up and down the Polish- Ukrainian border, and surveillance drones and planes circling in the Black Sea. Along with satellite coverage. NATO and UKR already know everything. Continuously the orcs think it’s still WW2.
Ivan X
I’m not always the best debater when I’m on the spot, but I had a long texting back and forth with a tankie friend today, in which I felt I argued clearly and well against his idiot position of “this war needs to end now,” which was just a feint for his Russia apologisims. In the end all he could do was just send me more links to Chris Hedges videos I’m not going to watch. Couldn’t have made my points without these nightly updates! I realize it’s not sport, but it felt pretty good to tell this motherfucker all the ways in which he was wrong, and clarify for myself why I feel the way I do. (Yes, he’s still a friend. I’m good at compartmentalizing, though I don’t always feel good about it.)
Carlo Graziani
For what it’s worth, it’s unlikely that today’s missile volley was a response to events at the G-19. It’s far more likely that was a response to the loss of Kherson, and an effort by Putin to protect himself from the spittle-flecked right-wing maniacs currently performing competitive patriotic shrieking and hair-tearing routines on Russian Telegram, while calling for something — anything — to be nuked.
He did the exact same thing at the time of the Kerch Bridge attack, which many Russians took as a psychological gut-punch in the Pearl Harbor/9-11 range (I know already, it’s not the same, please don’t leap for the keyboard). The foamers were on the warpath for a nukin’ back then too, and many in the West held their breath wondering what Putin would do. What he did was launch hundreds of missiles at Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, just like today, and call it “retaliation.” It appeared to work, in that it got the foamers off his case for a while. Same with the drone boat attack. He must be hoping that the same tactic will continue to firewall him politically.
kalakal
@The Pale Scot:
They really do, don’t they. They’ve had satellites, AWACs equivalents etc for decades and they seem to think UKR & NATO intelligence gathering capabilites consist of flying a reconnaissance Spitfire overhead twice a day. Their tactics are equally outdated. I’d include their strategy but they don’t seem to have one
Captain C
(Duplicate)
Captain C
@kalakal:
Zerg rush with not nearly enough Zergs supported by as much old, inaccurate artillery as they can muster? Or is that tactics?
Carlo Graziani
Interesting. On supply through Crimea and Kerch, ISW has this today:
So, the Rostov-on-Don depot is also semi-screwed. Either its supplies go through Kerch bridge over that single rail line bottleneck — presumably they’ve built switches on both ends to alternate train directions — on their way to the coast; or, if they’re addressed to the east, they go towards Donetsk city, pretty much directly into HIMARS range, or they loop around and come in behind Luhansk, to be trucked a fair way in to the front.
Imagine what will happen if Belgorod gets knocked off-line…
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
I understand it was 2 missiles that hit Poland. Likely fired from the same location/launcher, aiming for the same place, either a bonehead mistake or quite possibly not a mistake at all. 8K is pretty damn far off target. If it wasn’t a mistake it could be that vlad has gone over to the bleak side, which is a giant step past the major fuck up side and he thinks if everyone else falls out of a fifth floor window, he’ll be fine and if they don’t, his days are few and numbered. His problem is of course that most of the people aren’t on the fifth floor and are willing to shoot back.
It has been a long, long time ago but I have watched missiles launched from the guided missile destroyer I was stationed on in the Navy. We used to hit the target dead center every time I watched – these were fired at towed by airplane targets. Other similar ships got close, we never got close, we always got dead center. Guess who was responsible for the equipment/information that gave electronic pitch, roll and heading data to the armament guys. Oh yeah, the radar guys and missilemen also had a little something to do with it. Still we didn’t miss.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Carlo Graziani: Thanks Alison Rose. Working my way through it. Fascinating!
The Pale Scot
If it was a recon Mosquito they might get worried
:)
TheMightyTrowel
Small personal reflection: the jewish half of my family is Ukrainian and Polish – they all left Europe just after (or maybe at the tail end of) the first world war. Between the pogroms and then the Shoah, all connection with and interest in ‘the old country’ was lost. No one even up to my generation ever visited either country, or wanted to, as far as I know. I’ve always felt more connected to the irish part of my heritage even though that half of the family were potato famine migrants and were american for much longer. Anyhow it’s a strangely personal thing, watching a Ukrainian jew (secular though he may be – as are all my family, frankly) lead.
Armadillo
Is it time to consider moving on from Mr. Pfarrer as a source of information? He obviously has a lot of experience, but seems to be jumping to inaccurate conclusions more frequently. He also got the sinking of the Moskva wrong. . .
Montanareddog
@wombat probabilty cloud: There is an interesting theory going round that, because the village of Przewodow is due west of Kyiv and due north of Lviv (I checked on Google Maps and that is essentially true), the missile target programmer may have keyed the latitude of a target in Kyiv and the longitude of a target in Lviv.
Cameron
@Armadillo: He might be a bit off-base here, too. I think it was a bit premature for Biden to issue this statement, but I’m less than a novice in international relatons:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-hails-chinas-opposition-nuclear-threats-2022-11-15/
Geminid
@Armadillo: I don’t know. Pfarrar gets a lot of stuff right, at least as far as straight up reporting. His conclusions can be read critically and, like anyone’s analysis, should be read critically.
Anyone interested in more depth can put some time into reading sources like the Institute for the Study of War. I’ve also looked at the blog “Mystics and Statistics” and that guy reports a lot of detail and his presentation of maps is easier to follow. I think he’s using the same maps others use, though, just at a smaller scale. He gives analysis and predictions which of course must be read critically.
There are so many excellent aspects to the posts Dr. Silverman delivers night after night! Two important ones, I think, are their constancy and consistency, and Pfarrar’s reporting is part of that. So I say, keep it coming!
Carlo Graziani
@Geminid: As a pipe/filter from Twitter (apparently his main info source), Pfarrer’s output is “trust but verify” quality, since his bullshit filter is erratic and he’s not a details-oriented person.
His analyses are utterly worthless, and are where his intellectual limitations show. He clearly has no sense of the limits of what he knows and understands, and so feels he has but to form an opinion on a military subject to understand it thoroughly. Dunning-Krueger might be one way to describe his inability to transcend his very limited skill set.
Occasionally his peculiar military genius is good for an inadvertent chuckle, as when, two days ago, he unloaded an entire scholarly disquisition on the subject of tactical physical geography in the context of the Bakhmut battle, discussing the significance of “draws”, “defiles”, “reverse slopes” etc., for artillery, and illustrating it all with one of his customary non-topographic maps.
Geminid
@Carlo Graziani: Have you checked out the “Mystics and Statistics” blog?
Carlo Graziani
@Geminid: I’ll check it out. I like the title — a lyric from one of my favorite Warren Zevon songs, “Desperados Under The Eaves”,