One of the most insidious effects of Trump’s constant norm-shattering is that the sheer volume of shitty behavior makes focusing on any one thing all but impossible, not just for the media but for everyone. The former guy’s recent dinner with the antisemite who currently calls himself Ye and Holocaust-denying white nationalist Nick Fuentes is an exception in that it’s still a topic in mainstream media outlets a week later.
Josh Marshall theorized that the failure of Republican elites to defend Trump this time neutralized the “press bias avoidance” framework, making Beltway reporters more willing to criticize Trump without introducing a “both sides” element.
The “bias” framework defines bias as not giving equal account to both partisan sides of the story. If one party doesn’t have a side, if they’re collectively sitting this one out, suddenly there’s nothing to balance because there are not two sides. This may sound reductive and cookie-cutterish. Perhaps the two parties shouldn’t shape coverage like this. But this is actually how this works. If one partisan side takes a pass, it’s a permissioning moment where the press collectively can simply focus on what happened.
I think that’s a plausible explanation. Few elected Republicans defended Trump, but they didn’t denounce him either, despite rumors of a break in Trump’s stranglehold on that party due to midterm underperformance.
In her most recent WaPo column, Karen Tumulty calls out elite Republicans for issuing mealy-mouthed condemnations of antisemitism without mentioning Trump himself. She says the party can’t move on from Trump until it denounces him by name:
So Republican leaders should quit deluding themselves about the possibility of moving on from the former president, who continues to bring the worst people into their fold. They are along for the ride — even as it takes them over a cliff.
Tumulty is deluded herself if she thinks Republicans who anonymously whisper about ridding themselves of Trump are motivated by anything other than a desire to frantically wave away the gross orange loser stink. The man Rupert Murdoch declared “DeFuture” of that party is the sitting governor of the state where the antisemites gathered. He hasn’t said jackshit about it.
That’s unsurprising not only because DeSantis is reluctant to confront Trump directly. DeSantis also reacted defensively or otherwise sat out previous opportunities to denounce Nazis marching through Florida cities while carrying his banner. Why? Because he wants the antisemite vote.
So, it’s a Trump problem. It’s a Republican Party problem. But mostly, it’s an American antisemitism problem and a broader bigotry problem. The question is how to drive the Nazi creeps, racists, homophobes, misogynists, transphobes, xenophobes, etc., back under their rocks when ancient hatreds are mainstreamed again by one of the two viable political parties in the country.
Demagogues thrive on hate and fear. Those emotions are galvanizing in a way that is visceral and immediate. People who imagine a better future, one that is animated by justice and equality, must match that passion. It’s got to be a priority, not just to prevent one man from becoming president again but to outvote the bigots, who are — face it, Ms. Tumulty — the Republican Party base. Until we do, we’ll have to live under the threat of being ruled by hateful cranks. The end.
Open thread.
Cameron
Trump is the made-for-TV version. DeSantis is the real deal. I think he’s far, far more dangerous than Trump and has a pretty fair chance to win in 2024.
John S.
@Cameron:
DeSantis needs to get the GOP nomination first, and that is not an inevitable outcome. 2 years is an eternity in politics.
zhena gogolia
I don’t think De Santis is going anywhere.
gratuitous
Each time I hear or read about some half-hearted denunciation of the former guy and his dinner companions, there’s a voice in the back of my mind that says, “But if he’s the 2024 nominee, you’ll be right there cheering and clapping. Who do you think you’re fooling?”
PJ
@Cameron: Have you seen DeSantis speak, or in a debate? He doesn’t have the juice. He’s Chris Christie after liposuction. Trump will wipe the floor with him. Sure the media love him, because he’s a more presentable monster-daddy, but he hasn’t been on a reality TV show for twenty years. And to fight for the Republican nomination, he’s going to have to move even further to the right. Why would the Republican base choose Trump-lite over Trump?
The only way DeSantis wins the Republican primaries is if Trump keels over before November 2024 (and I admit there’s a decent chance of that.) But then he will have painted himself as Trump-lite, which will make it easier for any Democrat to beat him. And I don’t care how much the media fluffs DeSantis as the great Republican Daddy savior, if Biden runs, he will beat him like a rented mule, by a greater margin than he beat Trump, because a lot of MAGAts will sit this one out.
$8 blue check mistermix
Yeah I don’t get DeSantis’ play once he decides to engage Trump. He’s “winning” right now by keeping his mouth shut. Once the primaries are in swing, he’s going to have run a campaign, which involves opening his mouth and attacking Trump in debates and ads. As we saw in the past, Trump is relatively quick on his feet as a bully, and the rest of the Republican pack let him pick the others off one-by-one, in hopes that they’ll be the last one standing. Also, the base loves Trump and Trump’s policies, so what’s Ron going to attack? I think this DeSantis “boomlet” is totally media-powered and will crumple as soon as Trump gets a couple of good attacks in.
PJ
@gratuitous: Republicans don’t care how bigoted their candidates are, as long as they get their tax cuts and judges, they will continue to “be concerned” but will vote for the bigots and lunatics every time.
Miss Bianca
Well-said. Brava, BC! That is the salient point we have to remember and work towards, always.
Omnes Omnibus
We’ve been holding our own nationwide. We just need to keep it up. We don’t need their Fascist Groove Thang.
Barney
I think it’s not so much the antisemite vote that Trump and DeSantis want, as the antisemitic thugs. They need their brownshirts to disrupt voting, to “stand by” and then “stand up”. They both know that in a fair election, they’d lose the popular vote again, and probably the electoral college too, even if every antisemite in the USA voted for them (again). It’s the violence they are negotiating for.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I keep thinking Scott Walker 2.0. Maybe smarter and nastier, but the same near absence of charisma
MattF
I agree that the Republican base is the fundamental problem. It’s been said (by Mark Lilla) that this country’s doom will be democratic— but I wrongly discounted that prediction. Now, thanks to Donald Trump and his pals, we know that a national political party can and will engineer itself to attract the chunk of the population that is fascist. I believe they can be held back, but I also believe they will grow ever more desperate and ever more violent.
Brachiator
Does the media really care? And does it matter, since Trump neutralized the media long ago by continually denouncing them as enemies of the people.
Trump will entertain any hate group that likes or flatters him. And I guess that his previous support of Israel and the fact that his beloved daughter is married to a Jewish person gives him some personal immunity against charges of antisemitism.
James E Powell
Has DeSantis said whether President Biden won the election fair & square?
UncleEbeneezer
When I start seeing douchebags wearing Desantis hats and stickers on their trucks, I’ll start believing he’s a serious threat to Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@MattF: Mark Lilla is too enamored of the white working class and too dismissive of so-called identity politics. Asking people to treat you as equal isn’t special pleading. IOW Lilla can fuck right off.
Roger Moore
@$8 blue check mistermix:
He’s not willing- or capable- of defeating Trump himself, but he’s trying to be the successor if/when something happens to remove Trump from the scene. That could be a medical emergency, his legal problems catching up to him, or whatever. Basically, DeSantis wants to be the first vulture on the corpse.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe because I live in a state that just resoundingly reelected an authoritarian, I’m not so sanguine. Also, who said we “need their Fascist Groove Thang?” That’s certainly not what I meant when I said we have to match their passion. Jeebus.
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: That sounds about right to me. If Trump doesn’t croak, get indicted or otherwise decline to run when election season truly gets underway, DeSantis may sit 2024 out. He’s in his mid-40s, so he’s got plenty of time. Whether or not he has the juice to win the nomination without Trump in the race, I don’t know, but he’s built a pretty solid cult following despite having the personality and humor of a bowl of rancid tapioca pudding.
mrmoshpotato
@John S.:
And the fat, orange, fascist, narcissistic shitstain isn’t going to go away quietly.
mrmoshpotato
@gratuitous:
Edited for accuracy.
Cameron
Hmm. Seems like the general opinion is ‘DeSantis no more in ’24.’ I may have a couple of bucks to spend when the fat SS increase appears in January; if so, I might make a modest wager on the unloved guv’s chances. Sure, it would be far, far too early – but that uncertainty makes it fun! (As one of America’s greatest philosophers observed, it’s hard to make predictions, especially about the future.) And that would be about the only fun thing I can think of in connection with Whiteboots.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: I said nationwide for a reason. Also.
UncleEbeneezer
Most recent polls on RealClearPolitics are: Trump +15, +30, +18. DeSantis has the benefit of being smarter, but I’m not sure that’s really an advantage with the MAGA base. They don’t want smart, evil jerk. They want dumb, loud and proud, evil jerk. Then add into that fact that McCarthy and the GOP House will be absolutely flooding the zone with more Big Lie/Trump-Was-ROBBED! propaganda and revenge against anyone who was disloyal to Trump, supported 1/6 Committee etc., for the next two years. I don’t think there’s gonna be enough of a concerted effort of the GOP or it’s voters away from Trump. We’ll see, but I’d be very surprised if they suddenly found the spine to do so.
John S.
@Betty Cracker:
Well, these are the same people that think an amoral, abusive philanderer is the second coming of Jesus — so their taste in politicians is highly suspect.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: He certainly seems to have the MAGA mojo in Florida. As far as sizzle, Trotsky was a hell of a public speaker; Stalin wasn’t. How’d that work out, anyway?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@UncleEbeneezer:
Shouldn’t the fact that they’re only going to have a very narrow majority from a midterm election that historically speaking they should’ve won by larger margins give them pause from doing that stuff? It’s pretty clear from the results from most places the public rejected right-wing Trumpist BS. Why are they acting as if they won 40 seats or something?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Cameron:
The USSR was a dictatorship
RepubAnon
DeSantis for der Fuehrer?
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
I think this is what everyone is doing right now. Everyone is too afraid to take Trump on, but they all want to be there to pick up the pieces if someone else takes him out. DeSantis is just the top prospect for that right now.
Cameron
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): But Stalin didn’t start out in charge – Trotsky was the big military hero.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cameron: I’m making and taking no bets. I’ve been dead wrong about their side since ’08 (they’ll never nominate McCain/Romney/trump!). I can imagine DeSantis flaming out against trump, or Kemp or Youngkin, or running the table
I would bet against Larry Hogan, as I see some of the never-trumpets trying to keep that flame burning.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
I heard that about Trump in 2015 and early 2016. I’ll believe it when something causes Fox News and other Rupert properties to stop pushing him as the “great white hope”, and billionaires stop lining up to give him their money.
Gravenstone
Because that’s what they do! They could win by a single vote and act as if they had a mandate from God as a result.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
speaking of Scott Walker, and I did, remember when he pleaded with (if memory serves) Rubio, Cruz and Kasich to do a rock-paper-scissors to make it a one on one primary? Probably wouldn’t have worked.
Betty Cracker
@Cameron: I sure hope those who discount Kinkyboots’ chances are correct. But if the Republican base can’t have their Trumpy Bear for whatever reason, who else will they turn their lonely eyes to, if not DeSantis? Obama-hugger Christie? A pompous sack of shit like Pompeo? The walking fleece vest from VA? Pence? Please. DeSantis has figured out that performative lib-owning is the key to the kingdom. Being mean and shrill and sour-faced isn’t necessarily a drawback for that job.
Betty Cracker
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): McCarthy has to cave to the crazies to be speaker, and cave he will.
Omnes Omnibus
@gene108: We have also heard that Scott Walker, Chris Christie, and others were the next big thing. Trump is sui generis.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Gravenstone:
It’s infuriating. If Dems/progressives lose/underperform expectations, we have to “moderate” and “take a lesson” from it like the media tried to do with NY Dems and crime. But if Republicans underperform they still claim a fucking mandate and the media seems to give them a pass. Last I checked it’s a “majority” with a whopping 2 seats or something.
And they’re going to investigate the Hunter Biden bullshit, kick several prominent Dems off committees (because hey, Dems did the “same thing” with Greene, so payback), impeach the DHS (DHHS?) secretary for BS reasons, and probably impeach Biden himself while they’re at it.
It’s so brazen and they never acknowledge how unpopular they actually are or do any introspection. I want a return to normalcy. I want them to stop with this culture war bullshit that’s hurting innocent people and I want them to actually help do things that help the American people instead of this stupidity. And I hate every single POS that votes for them. I just want to tell them that you’re voting for people who are taking away MY labor rights, MY voting rights, MY health care; weakening regulations that help keep us healthy from tainted fucking meat of all things, clean air, etc. Trying to destroy SS and Medicare, etc. It’s personal to me and I’m going to let Republican voters know it from now on whenever the situation arises
Whew! Sorry for the rant, but the next two years in the House are going to nuts
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Ha! I think you’re right about that one.
Falling Diphthong
One thing that gets me is that they had “impeach him for trying to overthrow the government” right there in January ’21–right after the election, so as far as they could get in time from the next election. And if he’d been impeached, then he wouldn’t be able to threaten to come back in and make the whole question of the election about whether the nation really wants more Trump. (Maybe he could threaten to run for governor of Florida, if impeached as president? That would have been interesting this year.)
No one who had watched Trump through the previous 5 years should have still thought that he would agree to hand over his base and direct them to vote for whoever the RNC put up. Yet they keep circling back to “I think he’s learned his lesson now” and “Surely he won’t do anything more bad” and “I bet his base would LOVE the rest of us if he would just step back and give us a chance to shine.” It’s like Survivor players who think they can work with Abi Maria and not get burned. (I love Abi Maria. She’s a character on reality television, where this stuff is funny.)
karen marie
I don’t see it that way at all. This is just another convenient distraction to avoid talking about the shitshow that is the incoming Republican majority in the House.
Wonkette has a bit up with video of Don Lemon arguing for ten minutes with a Trump remora about whether this nobody would say Trump should denounce Fuentes – or something. Ten minutes of national TV time, with no context as to why this particular remora was invited on for this discussion.
How much time has Lemon – or anyone else at CNN – spent informing its viewers about the House shitshow? I’m going to guess none.
There is a point to the media continuing to talk about Trump’s dinner with Fuentes and West but it has nothing to do with antisemitism. How do I know? The media continues to ignore the radicalization of the Republican party, of which antisemitism is a major piece. Republicans didn’t start invoking “George Soros” yesterday.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
I doubt DeSantis will step on his own dick as hard as Christie did, when Brigdegate broke. A metric fuck ton of people living in NJ cross either the Hudson or Delaware River to commute to work regularly or attend meetings or get advanced medical care at a research hospital in Philly or NYC.
Closing the George Washington bridge as payback to being snubbed by the mayor of Ft. Lee hit home with a lot of us, because traffic problems caused by construction, especially at river crossings, is so damn relatable. Doing it as political payback is scary.
Christie had something like a 15% approval rating, at some point in his second term. People in NJ hate him.
So far I’m not seeing anything DeSantis is doing that can trigger a “but there for the grace of God, go I” moment for Floridians, like Christie did.
Manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: and about those fancy white gogo boots– where were all the nasty ads of him in the boots and a bikini, kicking it at the beach with Biden? What a missed opportunity.
Miss Bianca
@Falling Diphthong: oh, my lord – why the hell weren’t some of the worse angels of our nature encouraging Trump to run against DeathSantis for Governor of Florida? Think what a hot flaming garbage pile-on *that* would have been!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Betty Cracker:
McCarthy is such a weak, pathetic man. The House GOP better not default on the debt next year
Geminid
@Cameron: I think the DeSantis boom is more substantial than a media narrative. Elites like DeSantis, and he’s developed a rank and file following outside of Florida. The latter may in part reflect good networking among political evangelicals.
That’s a networking bunch and a hardheaded bunch too, at least when it comes to electoral politics. They’ll want a winner in 2024, and Trump looks like a loser because he is one. Their leaders may be cautious though, and wait to see if the DeSantis story has “legs.”
DeSantis will have weaknesses- they all will-and the other viable candidates will try to exploit them even as they try to take each other down. A special problem will be ditching Trump without angering his hard core fans. I expect the solution will be to ruthlessly attack one another while damning Trump with faint praise, and beaning him with gold watches.
Some “brave” candidates will forthrightly take Trump on, but I think these will be outliers and won’t be among the last two men standing. And here I may be an outlier: I don’t think Trump will be either.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: I don’t disagree that he’s the most likely candidate absent Trump, I just don’t think he will beat Trump head-to-head and I’m still skeptical that his performance in FL would translate nationally to the sort of huge turnout Trump has brought to elections and that was required to eek out a victory in 2016. Best case scenario is DeSantis somehow pulling off the upset in GOP Primary but Trump runs as third party spoiler, handing Biden an easy victory. Unlikely, but one can dream.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I think there is a good chance Congress will pass a substantial increase in the debt ceiling by the end of the lame duck session. Such a measure would likely be attached to the National Defense Authorization Act.
I guess we’ll know this time next month.
Manyakitty
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): smarter to resolve that mess right quick in the lame duck. I read about a few ideas somewhere (gestures vaguely)
Manyakitty
@Geminid: that’s what I read about. It’s a solid idea.
Sure Lurkalot
The media wants a spectacle…they are fluffing DeSantis so they can cover the internecine war.
No doubt from the POV of Floridians, the guy looks invincible but he won’t be the 1st or last to crash and burn on a bigger stage.
I agree with many that the guy has little to no charisma or presence. His face is punchable and his voice is laughable. That may appeal to those working overtime to normalize him but I’m not sure it will work with the craziest of crazies.
Matt McIrvin
One way, I suppose, is to hate and fear them.
I’m seeing worrying signs of the bit of the progressive left I know mostly picking at our own side’s faults, maybe trying to find a way not to support Biden in 2024. They’re always going to see any liberal with some actual power as a disappointing squish if not an actual traitor to the movement. And I don’t know how to fix it. But negative partisanship might go a long way. Progressives often feel insulted by it though.
Geminid
@Manyakitty: Joe Manchin has already said he could not countenance a debt ceiling increase in the lame duck session. That makes me think its gonna happen.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: I agree it’s debatable that DeSantis could be a huge national draw like Trump was. IMO, he gets too much credit for winning in Florida, which isn’t really a swing state anymore. I mean, Abbott won in Texas against a much more compelling opponent, but everyone is ho-hum on that because Texas is a red state. So is Florida now.
Also, it’s possible that the circus quality of Trump’s 2016 run can’t be replicated, not even by Trump himself. Trump was a celebrity and a carnival barker. DeSantis is a hard-right politician who knows how to push the bigotry buttons, but that might not be enough to resonate beyond people who were always going to vote for whichever hairball the GOP horks up. We’ll see.
Geminid
@Sure Lurkalot: Here you get into an interesting problem. DeSantis is, by reasonable standards, an asshole. But when I look at the other viable contenders, they’re all assholes too. But some asshole has to win this contest, and it will be a question of which one.
Juju
The end indeed. I’m so tired of these people. Gah!
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: There are a lot of progressives in the Democratic Party who are not this way. Looking at Democrats in the Progressive Caucus, I would say Joe Neguse, Jan Schakowsky, Jamie Raskin and Veronica Escobar are not, and I think they are as or more representative of this wing of the party than any other particular four I could name.
Now, when you get to non-elected “progressives,” I think the ones like you describe are more numerous. But when I check them out, I find that while many of these people are committed Democrats, many others are what I would call “conditional” Democrats, and still others have no use for the party at all. I think these two groups are best ignored or given very short shrift. They can not be satisfied because they will not be satisfied.
Captain C
@Cameron:
I don’t see DeSantis having nearly enough control over the bureaucracy to get Trump purged and banished, nor the
sackcold-blooded criminality to send assassins after him. He (DeSantis) may be an enthusiastic sadist, but I think Trump has him well-beat on organized criminality.Plus, I think Trump will run even if he’s in prison on multiple charges.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
@Manyakitty:
I hope you’re both right. Manchin has to realize that a default would not be good for either his own reelection in 2024 or his own personal wealth
Manyakitty
@Geminid: bring it.
Bill Arnold
@Betty Cracker:
We need to work out a way to make this false, and do it.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: Well said. I’ll just root for serious injuries for everyone involved :)
karen marie
@Betty Cracker: “Hork” is such an underused word
I’m a little surprised it’s not in Merriam Webster. It’s certainly been in wide use colloquially. I guess it’s a lack of sufficient use in printed material.
Geminid
@karen marie: Churl is another underutilized word now. But being a real-life epitome of a churl, Donald Trump has revived it some.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I’ll be more specific: the labor left is really, really pissed off at Biden’s most recent action on the railroad strike, urging Congress to hold the unions to the (fairly crappy) tentative agreement.
And, honestly, they have some reason to be, despite the reality that they probably couldn’t expect much better (even Loomis has explained this). The question is how much that is going to figure into future action.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: This is a more specific case. But by “labor left” do you mean actual union members and officials, or others taking up their cause either from conviction or opportunism, in good faith or bad?
Overall, this administration has been very supportive of labor, and pragmatic union members and leaders may well look past this particular decision.
On the other hand, Jerkobin readers will never hear the last of it.