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You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / 2024 Primaries / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Excellent News, If True

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Excellent News, If True

by | 190 Comments

This post is in: , ,

Yes, as a former proud Michigander, I am partisan. But actually, I’d cheer for almost any state that was ‘not Iowa‘ (or New Hampshire)…

… Party members debating the future of their nominating process have been anxiously waiting on word from the White House ahead of a key meeting Friday, and one senior official said it was “safe to say” Michigan was President Joe Biden’s preference.

New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina are likely to retain their early spots, while Iowa would lose its first-in-the-nation status. Many insiders expect will Michigan will follow the other three states.

The reshuffling, which party insiders expect to be formally proposed at a Democratic National Committee Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting that starts Friday, is aimed at simultaneously enhancing the influence of nonwhite voters in the nomination process and ensuring Democrats pick standard-bearers who can compete effectively against Republicans in battleground states…

Michigan, which has been seen as a leading contender for weeks, is a Midwest battleground state, critical to Democrats’ so-called Blue Wall, and has the racial, economic and geographic diversity Democrats said they’re looking for. It is also far larger than any of the other early states.

Democrats also flipped the Michigan Legislature and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer won re-election last month, ensuring state support for the new primary date. The Michigan state Senate voted Tuesday to move their presidential primary to the second Tuesday in February, a month earlier than its current date.

“It’s something that people have been pushing for for a long time. I think it’d be great for our state. I think we’d be a great fit,” Rep. Haley Stevens, D-Mich., told NBC News on Thursday…

Republicans still plan to stick with Iowa, which has held the coveted first-in-the-nation status since the 1970s. That means the two parties will have different presidential primary maps for the first time in years…

Making the switch in a year with a strong incumbent (i.e., President Biden) seems like a smart move.

Setting aside the predictably anti-Democratic slant, this is a pretty good backgrounder:

… The national party organization’s Rules and Bylaws Committee is set to meet in Washington over two days starting Friday to try to approve a slate of early contests that would offer greater diversity and union representation. The effort has echoes from 16 years ago, when Nevada and South Carolina were selected to join Iowa and New Hampshire to open the 2008 nomination race. The full DNC is expected to ratify changes early next year…

The committee also is expected to consider whether to keep four states in the so-called “early window” or expand to five before “Super Tuesday” when multiple states hold primaries. It might also consider allowing two states to hold contests on the same day during the early window.

If Mr. Biden doesn’t face a significant primary challenge, the impact of calendar changes might not be felt until 2028. Still, for a president who has said he wanted to serve as a “bridge” to the party’s next generation, he could leave an imprint on the nominating landscape for successors.

The Democrats have said they want an early schedule that stresses racial, ethnic and geographic diversity, as well as union representation. They also are looking to boost their prospects in battleground states that could benefit from additional money and party-building activities…

Iowa, which has had its leadoff spot since 1972, has fallen into disfavor among national Democrats after a botched vote-counting effort in 2020 marred the start of that year’s nomination race and deepened skepticism about the complex process of holding caucuses.

In November, the state further solidified its status as leaning toward the GOP by re-electing Gov. Kim Reynolds and Sen. Chuck Grassley, both Republicans, and voting out of office the only Democrat to hold one of its four U.S. House seats…

Reader Interactions

190Comments

  1. 1.

    Scout211

    11th Circuit overturned the special master ruling.  Link

    In a major defeat for former President Donald Trump, a federal appeals court on Thursday halted a third-party review of documents seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate.

    The ruling removes a major obstacle to the Justice Department’s investigation into the mishandling of government records from Trump’s time in the White House.

    The three-judge panel of the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed US District Judge Aileen Cannon’s order appointing a so-called special master to sort through thousands of documents found at Trump’s home to determine what should be off limits to investigators. The court said the judge should not have intervened in the first place.
    “The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”

    The 11th Circuit said that either approach would be a “radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations” and that “both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations.”

  2. 2.

    dr. luba

    This Michigander concurs.   We should be first.  Or one of the early states.  Enough with the white conservative bastions of New Hampshire and Iowa.

  3. 3.

    UncleEbeneezer

    First on CNN: Federal judge orders former top lawyers in Trump’s White House to testify in criminal grand jury probe

    CNN —     A federal judge has ordered former top Trump White House lawyers to provide additional grand jury testimony, rejecting former President Donald Trump’s privilege claims in the Justice Department’s criminal investigation of his effort to overturn the 2020 election, people briefed on the matter said.
    Pat Cipollone, the Trump White House counsel, and his deputy, Patrick Philbin, appeared in September before the grand jury in Washington, DC, as part of the Justice Department probe, which is now being overseen by newly appointed special counsel Jack Smith.

  5. 5.

    mrmoshpotato

    What’s wrong with a honky-ass state that’s filled with fields starting the primary season? /S

  6. 6.

    Martin

    Michigan is a good choice for the midwest. I’d argue GA is the better state for the south than SC is. SC doesn’t have anything that would qualify as a ‘city’ in the national sense. Not to take away from cities of 150K, but my ‘city’ is double that size and is unquestionably just a big fucking suburb. It reflects none of the problems that conventional cities have. I’d offer MA for the northeast if only to avoid NY dominating the field early on and sending candidates out to talk to 11 people in a town in NH is pretty insulting to the rest of the country. The west is hard. NV is just a city, and a weird city at that. AZ is pretty balanced, but doesn’t really represent the kinds of problems being faced in the west apart from water – and they suck at dealing with water. CA is so dominant on a number of fronts that not including it really steers the policy sorting in the wrong direction, but winning CA would knock out Ÿ of the field right at the outset. I think steering the party more toward CA liberalism would energize the party nationally, though.

  7. 7.

    phein63

    I’m not sure where I read it, but I think Illinois is the state that is most representative of the U.S.   And we don’t want it.  Go, Blue!

  8. 8.

    Martin

    @Sister Golden Bear: Not hard. She wrote in her opinion she didn’t even have jurisdiction. I don’t understand why a higher court didn’t vacate that ruling within 72 hours.

    The US legal system doesn’t *have* to work this way.

  10. 10.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Scout211: good news for John McCain.

    Michigan is fine because Gretchen Whitmer but I really think it should be Nevada because 1/ service unions 2/ Hispanics and hispanic heavy service unions 3/ West coast state 4/its got the infrastructure to do this every year in LV because they so conventions all the time. 5/diversity

  14. 14.

    Dan B

    @Scout211: This is an exciting ruling.  There were 90 comments in three minutes at JoeMyGod blog, a lot more comments in twenty minutes on an Oklahoma youth pastor who was grooming and molesting boys.  Great news!

    Now it’s time to investigate Eileen Cannon.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    @phein63: Illinois would also be a great choice. I’d like to see 4 early states, each in a different corner of the US with good urban/rural mixes, racial mixes, economic interests (mfg, ag, tech etc.), all go on the first day.

    This is a presidential election. A winning candidate needs to be able to do more than just take a bus tour and hit every diner in the state. Show you can run a complex nationwide campaign. I know that’s rough for less established candidates, but we need a candidate with the competency to run a national campaign.

  16. 16.

    Scout211

    I wish Iowa would dump the caucuses. I grew up in Iowa and my father was Republican who participated in the primary caucuses. They never seemed like a fair way to choose a candidate to me as a kid. As an adult, it was clear to me that it wasn’t fair or  representative.

    I think Michigan is a fine choice.

  17. 17.

    Martin

    @billcinsd: They do. And if California passed a similar law, how do we resolve that? Iowa law cannot supercede law in every other state. So you have to ignore that law.

  18. 18.

    mrmoshpotato

    “The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”

    AKA The Kremlin-humping, fascist, orange shitstain isn’t above the law unless he wants to flee the country to cry to his Daddy Vladdy.

  21. 21.

    Anne Laurie

    @Martin: I’d offer MA for the northeast if only to avoid NY dominating the field early on and sending candidates out to talk to 11 people in a town in NH is pretty insulting to the rest of the country.

    Gods, NO.   Massachusetts is *not* a ‘typical’ state, Democratic or otherwise, as even us Massholes admit.

    If we ‘need’ a state in the Northeast, I’d say Connecticut… if only to draw some much-needed attention to the racial inequalities in, say, New Haven.  And CT could use more tourists!

    (Also, the NYC -based major media would love it — they could trawl the entire state, and still be home in time for their Michelin-ranked dinner reservations.)

  22. 22.

    David 🩃The EstablishmentđŸ„§ Koch

    Not fair.  The Establishment did this to box Bernie in when he runs again in 2024/28.   How’s he gonna win without a lily white electorate and a byzantine caucus system.

  23. 23.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Spanky: 

    Pigs. Iowa has more pigs than people. 

    Oh yeah.  Pigs and fields don’t vote.  No disrespect to Mr. Pork Chop.  He makes a mighty fine chop.

  25. 25.

    billcinsd

    @Martin: But isn’t your scenario making California law supersede Iowa law? It seems to me the second law is infringing on the first law so that is the one that must go.

    The only way the DNC can make it work is to ban the candidates from campaigning in Iowa (assuming they follow their state law) by penalizing them more than the number of Iowa delegates if they do campaign. The state legislature sure isn’t going to bail the DNC out

     

    @Martin:

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I gotta say, I don’t care. I don’t think it matters one damned little bit. Pick whatever state you like. It won’t be representative of the country as a whole and it sure as shit won’t be mine and even if it was I wouldn’t care beyond the fact that I’d have to remember to get my ass to the polls a couple months earlier than usual..

  27. 27.

    dmsilev

    @billcinsd: Yes, but the catch is that the national parties can say “hold your caucus whenever you want, they just won’t count for any delegates”. New Hampshire has a first-in-the-country-primary law if memory serves, something like “if anyone schedules an earlier primary, we automatically reschedule ours”. Not sure what happens if some other state passes a “our primary is a week before the NH primary” law though…

  33. 33.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @dmsilev: New Hampshire has a first-in-the-country-primary law if memory serves, something like “if anyone schedules an earlier primary, we automatically reschedule ours”.

    I may well be wrong, but considering the fact that the party’s have said in the past, “Get out of line and your delegates won’t count.” I see no reason why NH should be granted special status.

  34. 34.

    trnc

    @C Stars: ​
     

    one GWB judge and two trump judges, no less!

    Or, as they are soon to be known in TrumpWorld, “liberal squishes.”

  35. 35.

    billcinsd

    @dmsilev: Isn’t that what they are proposing with having Michigan go first?

    I guess they can try and play hardball with the delegates, but doing that would likely ensure that the Dems wouldn’t win that state for a few election cycles.

  38. 38.

    David 🩃The EstablishmentđŸ„§ Koch

    Dump got what he wanted. He got a corrupt flunky in the judicial branch to delay an investigation for three months.

  39. 39.

    HumboldtBlue

    @billcinsd:

    It’s not my fucking.opinion. Read the story, Biden told congress to impose a settlement, it has fuck all to do with Manchin. This is robber baron shit that literally comes from the robber baron era.

  40. 40.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @HumboldtBlue: I’m not happy with this result either, but saying DEMs are at fault if what @billcinsd: is true, is a bit of a broad brush. We have been hostage to Manchin for 2 years now, we should be used to it.

  43. 43.

    Martin

    @C Stars: Nevada is such a weird market. Why are latino service workers in LV valued but half of the nations farmworkers in CA are not? I mean, CA has 16 million Latinos – 30% of the US population. That puts them substantially ahead of the entire state of PA and 60% ahead of Michigan.

    NV has virtually no industry, agriculture, or rural population. It’s really really lacking in policy diversity. It’s just a proxy for SEIU, and I support SEIU but I don’t think they deserve their own primary. Arizona is considerably more diverse policy wise.

    One real problem with Iowa as first in nation is that federal agricultural policy is fucking deranged and pain is coming fast. CA has been carrying the national agricultural variety and CA is now at a point that we need to draw down that activity because residential water for 40 million people will take priority. The security of the country’s food supply will soon be in jeopardy if we don’t do something, and that message doesn’t come out of Iowa or New Hampshire or Nevada or Arizona. It comes out of CA because we’re *half* the nations fruit and vegetables. There’s no other proxy for this stuff. Everyone is so afraid of hewing too close to CA politics that we’re forcing ourselves to not address this problem.

  44. 44.

    SpaceUnit

    I’m not sure there’s a lot of evidence that candidates get much in the way of momentum from an early primary win.  It’s just something for the Chuck Todds to blather about.

    The only difference will be that candidates have to eat a corn dog for the cameras at the Michigan State Fair.

  45. 45.

    HumboldtBlue

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Read the fucking story. All that shit about pay raises and bonuses pales in comparison to the fact they’ve cut the workforce to bare bones and means they won’t lose a fucking dollar, but god forbid their profits margins get fucking impacted by paid days off.

    Congress has long recognized the social costs of railway-labor disputes. In 1926, the federal government gave itself broad powers to impose labor settlements on the rail industry. In September, the Biden administration utilized such power to broker a tentative agreement between the leaders of a dozen unions and the railroads. Under that bargain, the companies agreed to a 24 percent pay increase by 2024, annual $1,000 bonuses, and a freeze on health-care costs. On the key point of leave, however, the railroads conceded only a single paid personal day, plus the removal of some disciplinary penalties for time missed as a result of a medical emergency.

  46. 46.

    sab

    Times change circumstances so much. I moved to western Michigan from Ohio in 1980. Ohio was a solidly purple state. Michigan was DeVos territory. I stopped voting. There was absolutely no point in bothering.

    Moved away four years later. Never looked back. Now look at them.

  48. 48.

    gwangung

    @HumboldtBlue: Um, I don’t think so.

    Check with our local railroad union expert, but this is something built into law as part of the process, and is much more preventative of chicanery by railroad bosses.

  49. 49.

    Martin

    @billcinsd: There’s no such thing in the law as ‘dibs’. California cannot be precluded from passing a law because Iowa did it before CA was admitted to the union. No, laws like that are struck down as infringing on the rights of other states. We could have a federal law that says Iowa goes first, but Iowa cannot have such a law. Iowa doesn’t have jurisdiction over every other state.

  50. 50.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @billcinsd: Oooooh I’m going to be held hostage to NH s delegates, all 3* of them??? C’mon, this is not hard.

    *(I picked 3 because iirc that is the # of electoral votes they have. Maybe it’s 4. ) I have no idea how many delegates they have at the Nat Convention, safe to say it is a vanishing small #. And as I said before, IT DOESN’T F’N MATTER.

  51. 51.

    sab

    I used to work in a tiny accounting firm that abolished paid sick days because if we didn’t get sick much during the year we had to use those days up in December, so the place shut down when year end planning was supposed to be done but everyone was ising up their sick days.

    Perhaps a cut-off date that isn’t during Christmas shipping would be a compromise.

  52. 52.

    cain

    @Scout211:
    It’s also puts the career of the one Aileen Cannon on the skids. This has to be a major embarrassment for her and likely ends any kind of chance of SCOTUS has I’ve read she wants to end up.

    Everything Trump touches turns to shit. She was busy trying to curry favor with the Federalist Society and got screwed. I hope that proves to other Federalist Society picks that picking their stuff over their career is not a good idea.

  53. 53.

    Martin

    @gwangung: The problem is it leaves the underlying problem unresolved. The potential for the nations rail infrastructure is at best stagnant and at worst regressing under the leadership of 4 corporations that run the whole show.

    Long past time we nationalized the infrastructure, invested in them to raise their safety and capacity, and have the rail operators  lose their regional monopolies. We’ve banged into this same problem 3 times now. It’s not that hard of an economic puzzle to unwrap. The feds gave the railroads the right of way and it’s time for the feds to take it back.

  54. 54.

    Martin

    @sab: Christ, how the fuck can an accounting business not solve a simple accounting problem. Let workers accrue sick hours monthly, and cap the total they can hold. Everyone will hit their cap at different times of year and spread their taking time out across the year. The self-imposed calendar year deadline is because you didn’t want to maintain a ledger of earned hours? Seriously?

    Every time I hear a story like that I get a little giddy to see those companies go under because management that stupid shouldn’t be in charge of things.

  55. 55.

    cain

    @Martin: I think Washington would be pretty decent – lot of diversity – you have the natural ecosystems, wine/beer industries, tech industry and of course lots of rural bits there as well Seattle standing out as the urban powerhouse.

    It’s time the states west of the Mississippi also get a turn considering we have come fairly influential population centers.

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @HumboldtBlue: Read the fucking story.

    I have read that fucking story, and I am one of the few who has been standing up for the RR workers in the morning threads. I know god damn well what those guys deal with and how dawgdamned bad it is and I was the first as far as i know to express disappointment with Joe’s pushing for a law forcing them into a contract they had already rejected. As I said then, Joe could have at least split the baby and given them half of what they wanted.

    As to what happened today? I have no idea as I have been working outside all day and whatever updates I get are from this thread.

    FTR, I was a union carpenter and I am as pro union as they get.

    As far as I am concerned, forcing people to take a contract they have already rejected is the same as “Collective bargaining rights my ass.” It doesn’t mean I can’t see why Biden is so desperate to avoid a rail strike, just that I think he could have taken a different road.

  57. 57.

    cain

    @HumboldtBlue: This is a huge failure of the Democratic party. I think there will be some blowback at grass roots level.

    I bet the media is not going to give a shit – they never cover unions well or worker rights stuff. It’s just not interesting to them compared to talking to some people in a diner.

  59. 59.

    Kent

    @Martin: New Mexico would be cool, if only to see the national press in their loafers stomping around the Navajo reservation interviewing Navajo women what they they thought about every issue and then frequenting comedors in south Albuquerque chatting up the abuelas over some chile and trying to speak Spanish to Hispanic women who have lived in New Mexico for 6 generations.

    Be a nice change from all the upper midwest diner and state fair bullshit.

  60. 60.

    Martin

    @cain: We need an early state where water policy is relevant. That’s going to become a critical problem for the nation.

  62. 62.

    Another Scott

    @HumboldtBlue:

    WH.gov:

    DECEMBER 01, 2022

    Statement from President Joe Biden on Congressional Action to Avert a Rail Shutdown

    On Tuesday, I met with Congressional leaders from both parties and told them that Congress needed to move quickly to avert a rail shutdown and economic catastrophe for our nation. Now, I want to thank Congressional leadership who supported the bill and the overwhelming majority of Senators and Representatives in both parties who voted to avert a rail shutdown. Congress’ decisive action ensures that we will avoid the impending, devastating economic consequences for workers, families, and communities across the country. Communities will maintain access to clean drinking water. Farmers and ranchers will continue to be able to bring food to market and feed their livestock. And hundreds of thousands of Americans in a number of industries will keep their jobs. I will sign the bill into law as soon as Congress sends it to my desk.

    Working together, we have spared this country a Christmas catastrophe in our grocery stores, in our workplaces, and in our communities.

    I know that many in Congress shared my reluctance to override the union ratification procedures. But in this case, the consequences of a shutdown were just too great for working families all across the country. And, the agreement will raise workers’ wages by 24%, increase health care benefits, and preserve two person crews.

    I have long been a supporter of paid sick leave for workers in all industries – not just the rail industry – and my fight for that critical benefit continues.

    This week’s bipartisan action pulls our economy back from the brink of a devastating shutdown that would have hurt millions of families and union workers in countless industries. Our economy is growing and inflation is moderating, and this rail agreement will continue our progress to build an economy from the bottom up and middle out.

    ###

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  63. 63.

    cain

    @Martin:

    @cain: We need an early state where water policy is relevant. That’s going to become a critical problem for the nation.

    That would be either Arizona or Nevada – although who the fuck would want to grow a city in the desert is beyond me.

  67. 67.

    PJ

    I think primary spots should rotate in pools, with smaller states in each pool going first, but if I (and I am still waiting for that call from the DNC) get to choose one state to go first:

    the first primary should be in the First State, Delaware. It’s 20% black, halfway between DC and NYC, and small enough that every candidate can shake everyone’s (and I mean everyone’s) hand if they want to. Down with corndogs, up with scrapple!

  70. 70.

    Martin

    @cain: Again, California is where the shit hits the fan. California has plenty of water for the residents. What we lack is enough water to grow the food the other 49 states eat.

    Everyone seems to think this is a California problem. No, we’re gonna have food no problem. Hope you guys like corn.

  73. 73.

    HumboldtBlue

    @raven:

    What took you so long??

    What the fuck does that mean?

    As for raging about it, yeah, rage all fucking day long because once again it’s the workers who get fucked over and forced to work under a contract they have repeatedly rejected. Notice how the pressure wasn’t applied to the owners of the monopolies that control the movement of goods to make meaningful concessions, no, it was the workers. But the WH issued a mealy-mouthed statement that whitewashes that fact, so it’s all good. Thank fuck you were here to comment.

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    @Another Scott: Comment in a dday thread (where he says Dark Brandon can impose a 7 day mandatory sick leave benefit on all federal contractors – I have my doubts, given the way the courts are…):

    Biden wanted 12 weeks of sick leave for everyone in the original Build Back Better. But the majority for that wasn’t there. Still this deal is a good deal and Biden got credit by unions for his involvement in the negotiations.

    — Lukas đŸ‡ș🇩 (@lurwus) December 1, 2022

    Obama Biden is worse than Bush TFG, he sold us out!!11ONE.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    Martin

    @PJ: Shaking everyone’s hand is the problem. We keep acting like the median American lives in a Norman Rockwell painting – a little town with a diner and a grain elevator. The median American lives in a city. 86% of the US population live in cities. The political gaze of handshaking is a lie.

    4 months of watching people romp around a state the size of Fresno is why so many of our political narratives are such bullshit.

  77. 77.

    Jeffro

    Michigan first?!?!  More of that meddling by that she-demon Whitmer!!

    /s

    Gutsy, forward thinking, Dems!  I like it.  More, please!!

  78. 78.

    cain

    @Martin: Definitely – I thought though California would be a hard sell as a state. But the water rights issue is going to affect all those states right there given that the demand for water continues to rise.

    I have no idea what the solution is going to be…

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: No, he can totally do that. The courts won’t touch it. We have remarkably little federal labor policy but federal contractors have loads of protections from executive policy.

  80. 80.

    cain

    @Spanky: I hear it’s probably hedge funds — apparently they are busy buying up every piece of housing out there even edging out the AirBNBs.

    This seems like doing a monopoly on real estate… but it wouldn’t surprise me that they would grow Las Vegas grab the real estate and drive prices up.

  81. 81.

    Dan B

    @Jeffro: No wonder those creeps wanted to kidnap Whitmer.  A woman making big strong men look weak by comparison.  Their world of macho manliness was collapsing!

  82. 82.

    HumboldtBlue

    @raven:

    Well fuck me too then, for being the dipshit. Again.

    @Another Scott:

    Obama Biden is worse than Bush TFG, he sold us out!!11ONE.

    Yeah, how dare anyone point out that a Democrat-led congress and WH just forced rail workers to accept a contract they have repeatedly rejected while the monopolies who fuck those workers over on a daily basis ensure their profit margins are in no way harmed. Fucking ingrates the lot of us.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    @phein63:

    I think Michigan is fine. As long as Illinois gets back the primary in March.

    Let us be part of Super Tuesday.đŸ‘đŸŸđŸ‘đŸŸNo more of this June shyt that we had this year😠😠

  84. 84.

    raven

    @HumboldtBlue: Nah, you’re in great company,

    Six Republicans voted for the sick leave measure: Sens. Mike Braun (Ind.), Ted Cruz (Texas), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Josh Hawley (Mo.), John Kennedy (La.) and Marco Rubio (Fla.).

  86. 86.

    Another Scott

    @Martin:

    No, he can totally do that. The courts won’t touch it.

    Eh??

    The RWNJ SCOTUS wants to roll back the ability of federal agencies to issue rules and regulations (and make Congress micromanage everything (breaking the federal government – by design – in the process)). Why wouldn’t they say that, “No, Biden cannot mandate paid sick leave for federal contractors.”??

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    @HumboldtBlue: Progress is incremental.  Take the win and build on it.

    IIRC, 8 rail unions supported the contract, and 4 were opposed.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    @cain: CA is a hard sell as a state, but the state leads the majority of national policy issues by a decade or two. If you want to build policy into where the electorate is going to be, you can’t be building it out of Iowa and New Hampshire. It’s out of CA. There’s no other proxy for tech than CA. There’s no other proxy for broad agriculture than CA, same for climate change. You can go to Nevada for latinos and labor, you can go to other states for water, urban issues, etc. But CA is the only place some of these really important issues get discussed.

    One reason why CA tends to ignore national politics is that national politics is like 20 years behind what we’re dealing with here. Railroads? CA told BNSF to fuck off and bought our own right of way because they can’t be worked with. They’re a liability to progress.

  91. 91.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: Only the executive sets rules for federal contractors. There are literally hundreds of labor rules that apply to federal contractors issued solely by the executive. It doesn’t even make sense to put that in Congress’s hands since federal contractors literally work for the executive branch.

  92. 92.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sure, and if one went on strike then (most likely) all of them would have struck.  Solidarity.

    But that doesn’t mean that “unions” were uniformly opposed to the contract.  Some unions were supportive, and some were not.  Painting federal imposition of the contract under long-standing federal law as some monstrous tyranny is counter-productive.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    and make Congress micromanage everything (breaking the federal government – by design – in the process

    What about the military, one of the few things right wingers seem to care about?  Wouldn’t doing so degrade our national defense? Is that by their design, or are they just that shortsighted in your opinion

  94. 94.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): No, it’d work. Federal contractors are prohibited from discriminating against transgender workers under an executive order. There’s hundreds of these. Providing paid sick leave for federal contractors due to covid wasn’t touched by the courts.

    I mean, the whole point is that the federal government is the one paying for the paid leave. If they don’t want to do that thing that the federal government will pay for then they can forgo the federal contract. If the courts struck this down, then half the federal contracting system unwinds.

  95. 95.

    zhena gogolia

    My god if I get one more email from Warnock I’m going down to GA and voting for Walker. I swear.

  96. 96.

    Anoniminous

    @Dan B: ​
     
    IIRC, you mentioned in the Ally Thread you had a list of Right Wing Sex Offenders? If so could you post it somewhere so I could grab it?

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    @Martin: Yes, but remember what happened when Biden’s administration tried to impose health and safety rules during the pandemic.  I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were still going through the courts.

    People can – and do – file lawsuits about anything.  And they’re not always thrown out.

    Just this week there were arguments at the SCOTUS about what “shall” means and when it applies to status of people in the immigration system.  Alito was arguing that “shall” means that DHS must to drop everything and round up every single person in the category – even if there’s no funding or staff to do the work and even though the law plainly says that “shall” doesn’t come into play the way Alito says it does.  That the government loses all prosecutorial discretion.  It’s nonsense and would break the federal government, but they – don’t –  care.  That’s what we’re dealing with.

    There is no One Weird Trick for paid sick leave – especially now.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  101. 101.

    PsiFighter37

    @zhena gogolia: As long as it’s not saying “We’re doomed; it’s over”. I assume that Warnock does not have the same geniuses running outreach that Sean Patrick Maloney had over at the DCCC.

  103. 103.

    UncleEbeneezer

    BREAKING: Buried lede: Three close aides to donald appeared before a federal grand jury Thursday – Dan Scavino, William Russell, and William Harrison.

  105. 105.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: Paid sick leave due to covid wasn’t touched. Vaccine mandate was because it wasn’t a simple exchange of money. If the feds want contractors to have sick leave they can pay for that leave. There’s no residual rights issue like there is with a vaccine mandate. That kind of contract constraint is completely normal in federal contracting. What’s to strike down?

  106. 106.

    Another Scott

    @Martin:

    It seems you’re right.

    But it seems like the requirement is already there, or at least was there in 2016.

    Maybe one can drive a train through “parties that enter into covered contracts with the federal government” though.

    If’ it’s still in-force, I’m not sure what dday is advocating now.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    Nelle

    I’m jumping in late and may be repeating someone.  This morning’s Des Moines Register had an opinion column by some Iowa Republican muckety-muck, urging Democrats to fight to keep Iowa first in the nation.  There was also an article about Grassley urging Democrats to keep Iowa first.

    Aw, guys, who knew you cared so much about Democrats.  Meanwhile, one survey showed  majority not that keen on it.  I enjoyed the run up in 2019/20, but it was also frustrating watching people who couldn’t make it in person to the caucuses  get shut out.  I’m on the “let it go somewhere else” bench.

  108. 108.

    PsiFighter37

    As someone else mentioned above, I would replace South Carolina with Georgia. I have to imagine that SC got the bump not just because of more racial diversity but also because Jim Clyburn was in House leadership and made it a priority. I’m sure that’s why Nevada got the bump as well (due to Harry Reid), but Nevada is a genuine swing state. For all intents and purposes, SC is just like every other Deep South state, where Democrats will never win because 60% of the population is white, and 90%+ are Republicans. The math will never be there. But building an actual party infrastructure in Georgia that is not solely reliant on Stacey Abrams would be a huge boon. The easy way to do that is to make it an early primary state.

    Michigan as an early state? No-brainer. What Gretchen Whitmer and the state party have done there over the past 4 years needs to be replicated everywhere. If the state can basically become a D+5 state (i.e. 5 points more Democratic than the national vote) without the numbnut Trump voters who will otherwise never vote in an election without their fat orange demigod on the ballot, then it should be rewarded accordingly.

    I would absolutely stay away from states like Washington or Massachusetts, just because you will have DSA types drive the narrative there, and that has been an absolute anchor around Democrats since they have percolated further over the past 5 years.

  110. 110.

    Anoniminous

    @Kent:

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Leave New Mexico alone.

  111. 111.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Another Scott:

    No one painted this as monstrous tyranny it’s a sell-out, and it’s been done by Democrats. You can twist and turn all you like about incrementalism all fucking day while you make excuses like a baker makes pretzels, maybe the rail workers can drink your incremental soup next time they get sick so that the monopolies don’t lose any fucking money.

    Amazing how no pressure is applied to the people earning billions in profit shares, no, the pressure is just for those who make those profits happen, and they’re supposed to accept it as “incrementalism.” How insulting.

  112. 112.

    sab

    @Martin: When I worked in a huge accounting firm ( Deloitte and Touche) they paid us for accrued overtime at the end of June ( their fiscal year end.) So auditors had use of their banked time and tax accountants just got paid. Their retention rate for tax accountants was dismal.

  113. 113.

    Martin

    @sab: And yet, I don’t know a single company or agency that operates on the seasonal calendar. Every single one of them operates on a fiscal calendar to avoid the very issue your accounting company struggled with.

    I mean, how the fuck is TTM a foreign concept even to a manager of an accounting firm? That’s all you have to do. That’s my radical solution to this problem.

  114. 114.

    PsiFighter37

    @Nelle: Fuck Iowa. The only worthwhile thing they have done in the 2000s was to pick Obama in the 2008 caucuses. Since 2010, they have been especially useless.

    In hindsight, losing big in states like Ohio and Iowa were a real problem in 2010. Democrats (outside of Obama winning Iowa in 2012 and Sherrod Brown in Ohio) have never been able to rebuild their benches in those states. Ones like Michigan and Wisconsin at least have the demographic mix where we can compete at the statewide level (and arguably have a slight-to-modest advantage). But those states that have a far larger non-college-educated white population…those are gone for good, for at least a generation or more. They won’t vote a Democrat unless the Republicans truly bring the country to the edge of catastrophe (a la Bush in 2008, when even fucking Indiana voted for the black man).

  115. 115.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Another Scott: ​But that doesn’t mean that “unions” were uniformly opposed to the contract. 

    But it does mean they were all in support of each other.

    I’ve worked on job sites where carpenters were feuding with electricians, pipe fitters were feuding with sprinkler fitters, iron workers were feuding with anybody who got in their way and everybody hated the laborers. It sucked.

    Getting 12 different unions on the same page is a monumental achievement, too bad it was all for nothing.

  119. 119.

    sab

    @Martin: Auditors are know it alls and sneer at tax accountants. They are culturally unable to communicate with others working on different calendar or in different contexts.. Poor managers- all yelling and bluster. What would be the point of discussion? We have rules and guidelines.

  120. 120.

    Ohio Mom

    @HumboldtBlue: Thanks for the link, I learned a lot from it. I only wish it had listed the names behind the railroads — I think Warren Buffet owns a railroad, is he one of the owners who refuses to hire enough workers?

    Those “activist investors” need to be identified since they are the root cause of the lack of sick days. Such a stroke of genius they had, save money by firing all but the absolute fewest number of workers needed, ensuring no slack anywhere. Nobody on-call, no substitutes, therefore no sick days. But lots of loot leftover for dividends!

    I feel for Biden, the Democratic Party’s future prospects can not politically survive a rail strike and the ensuing economic chaos. Yeah, it was Manchin and Republicans who voted against the sick days but a strike would be blamed on Biden and the Democrats.

    But it is wrong, wrong, wrong to deny the railroad workers the dignity of sick time. The railroads are, not to put too fine a point on it, basically killing their workers.

  121. 121.

    sab

    @Martin: Surprised me the first time I got screwed out of my banked time. Nothing to do all summer, and no time bank to draw down from. Stressful.

  125. 125.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Miss Bianca:

    Those eight unions who voted to accept were prepared to support the four who did not and would support a call for a strike. That’s what the fuck I’m on about. I posted a link to an excellent source that details all of this.

  127. 127.

    Martin

    @sab: I know. I suffered from really bad imposter syndrome in my job. I got a director title in my mid-20s, and really, really didn’t feel like I earned it but in hindsight I feel like even then I was overqualified to run a big four. I mean, I worked in government. We’re supposed to be the stupid, calcified ones.

    These are such trivial problems for a business to solve that there’s no excuse to suffer under them. If a business chooses to suffer under them, then just burn them down. They’re unable to care for themselves any longer.

  128. 128.

    Geminid

     

     

    @PsiFighter37: I’m no big fan of the DSA and its “inside-outside” strategy of running candidates in Democratic primaries, but they seem to me to have reached a ceiling for now as a party. They experienced growth from 2016 on, and in 2018 actually helped elect a couple members to Congress as Democrats. Now they have stalled out at just below 100,000 members nationwide and the party had a lot of internal stress this year. The DSA holds bienniel conventions and the one next summer looks to be contentious.

    The DSA seems strongest in New York City and the greater metro area. I wonder what you have seen from them in your city and its surrounding counties.

  129. 129.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: So, one possibility is that the railroads have a different set of rules because just look through federal legislation and railroad are always an exception to every rule, or have their own rules and agencies and so on. It really speaks to historically how critical railroads were to the nation (again, fucking nationalize the infrastructure already – this is like having every airline have to own their own airport in every city and exclusively use those – we would never tolerate that shit) so it could be a special order is needed just for the railroads.

  130. 130.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): nondelegation/“major questions” doctrine alleges that government agencies can only do what’s spelled out in the relevant laws, or at least to require such language when there’s ambiguity around a “major question”.

    The scope of the DoD’s power is fairly clear, though.

  133. 133.

    Miss Bianca

    @HumboldtBlue: I read your fucking excellent source and I still don’t get how you get to “it’s all the Democrats’ fault!11!!”

    ETA: I mean, isn’t it actually the railroad robber barons’ fault? Don’t Republicans in Congress bear *any* responsibility for Congress’s decisions? Or are we back to “only Democrats have agency and so they are the only ones who are responsible for fixing EVERYTHING?”

  134. 134.

    Ohio Mom

    @Martin: Nationalizing the railroads would solve many problems but I don’t see how it is possible. Just as nationalizing health care would solve many problems, the big interests behind these sectors won’t have it.

  135. 135.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Why Scavino, Russell and Harrison testifying matters:

    Scavino: “The panel argues Scavino was not conducting “privileged” business when he participated in discussions about pressuring state lawmakers to overturn the 2020 election, when he helped recruit attendance at Trump’s Jan. 6 rally and when he engaged with organizers of the rally about the speaker lineup and his own scheduled remarks.”

    Russell: “Russell, 31, was often seen by Trump’s side, serving as White House deputy director of Advance and Trip Director. He was with the former president for part of the day on Jan. 6, 2021, and moved to Florida to continue working for Trump after his presidency.”

    Not sure about Harrison, but it looks like they are getting testimony with regards to what precisely Trump was doing/planning on 1/6.

  137. 137.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Miss Bianca: ​Because the feds are imposing a rejected contract, something that could not happen without DEM support.
    Basically one either supports collective bargaining or one doesn’t if the result is inconvenient. As I have stated before, I understand where Joe and the DEMs are coming from, but they could have taken a road less traveled.​

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @UncleEbeneezer: This is probably the Harrison who was identified in news reports this summer as one of at least four White House aides questioned by a grand jury this Spring, about the documents Trump absconded with.

  141. 141.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Isn’t everything depending on where one stands? A bash to the economy from a rail strike would be very convenient to Repubs, not so much for DEMs at this point in time.

  143. 143.

    Miss Bianca

    @OzarkHillbilly: So, you’re saying they could have said, “go ahead and strike”. Now can you tell me what the likely result would have been? I mean, politically for the Democrats?

    And it wasn’t rejected by the majority of the unions. So, again, your point would be…

  145. 145.

    Martin

    @Ohio Mom: Yeah, but those are two VERY different things. One is consumer facing and one is not (Amtrak notwithstanding, but also serving so few passengers that even it effectively isn’t user facing). The other is scale and precedent.

    I’m not arguing about nationalizing the operations of the railroads – just the infrastructure. Railroads otherwise stay intact and now get to compete nationally. So instead of 4 regional monopolies, you get 4 national competitors. And the railroads have been nationalized 3 times before – the last time in the 70s. This is not a new remedy.

    They represent an abstract infrastructure in a way that hospitals and insurers do not. We all feel the effects of a dysfunctional railway system but never actually interact with it so have no opportunity to directly influence it. That’s what makes it difference. Plus, virtually all of the right of way that the railroads operate on, they didn’t pay for. It was given to them for the benefit of the nation. That benefit no longer exists. Railroads were building the nation west ahead of what the government could do. Now they’re just holding back the ability of the country to deal with climate change, move goods and services around, etc. I mean, Africa has more high speed rail than the US does. European high speed rail companies have turned down opportunities to build in the US because the existing approaches to rail are so dysfunctional that they chose to take a job in Morocco instead. I don’t mean to disparage Morocco, but under no circumstance should they be seen as a better working environment than the US.  If they are, then something is deeply wrong here.

  146. 146.

    sab

    @sab: Verizon wasn’t up to the job. My phone got replaced under warranty but they couldn’t be bothered to help transfer the contacts to the new phone.

    Lots of young enterpreneurs who are phone savvy have set themselves up to do the customer service that Verizon used to do. I am okay with that. They do it better and faster. The young guy did it well. Glad to see him making a good living locally.

  147. 147.

    Ohio Mom

    From Qasim Rashid’s twitter:

    “207 out of 210 Republicans voted NO on 7 days paid sick time for railroad workers.😐

    While billionaire railroad corps enjoy ~15% profit increase this year, spent $26.5B on stock buybacks & dividends, & provided 0 paid sick time—GOP still sided w/them over workers.

    Vote GOP Out.”

  149. 149.

    Martin

    @Miss Bianca: I think there were ways that Democrats could have rolled this a bit better, either by forcing Republicans on a vote that they could have then painted the GOP as the obstructors on (that the filibuster in the senate is now so deeply institutionalized doesn’t help) and/or rolling out an executive order to effectively provide what the workers were asking for.

    In the end the outcome is more or less the same, but it’s hard to avoid the ‘dems caved to labor’ narrative simply because of how they handled this. They’ve done a much better job of navigating this stuff with other issues.

  151. 151.

    Kent

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Miss Bianca: ​Because the feds are imposing a rejected contract, something that could not happen without DEM support.
    Basically one either supports collective bargaining or one doesn’t if the result is inconvenient. As I have stated before, I understand where Joe and the DEMs are coming from, but they could have taken a road less traveled.​

    In point of fact, this was the contract that was actually negotiated between the unions and railroads when they were all brought together by Biden and forced to sit down with the Secretary of Labor in marathon sessions.

    A majority of unions did vote in favor and a majority of railroad workers across all unions also voted to approve.  It was several small unions that narrowly voted to oppose

    Now should railroad workers get sick leave?  Of course.  But so should every worker and that should be front and center for the Biden Administration and Congress.  Blame Sinema and Manchin probably.  But there should be Federal legislation that mandates at least 7 days sick leave for every worker in America.

  152. 152.

    Laura

    I feel no state(s) should be always first. The states should be be grouped into 4 groups – each group a mix of red and blue – and named a, b, c, d. Voting should start the first Tuesday of February, then March, then April, then May with group a starting. Then the next presidential election year group b starts and a goes last. Then c gets to go first, then d. With all the elections done within 4 months it would force the candidates to visit more states.

  153. 153.

    geg6

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I have sympathy for your position here, but I also believe this had to happen for the greater good.  If you think there was another way, as you keep saying, can you tell me what it is?  Because I don’t see one.

  154. 154.

    Ohio Mom

    @OzarkHillbilly: I agree, Biden and the Democrats were between the proverbial rock and a hard place. They chose a terrible option but the least worst one when the entire country’s future is considered.

    A strike would have erased every gain we Democrats have made, the backlash would have been nuclear. But it does sadden me that we screwed over the railroad workers — yes, we had lots of help from Republicans but that doesn’t absolve us from our part.

    All these things can be true at the same time.

  156. 156.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Miss Bianca: So, you’re saying they could have said, “go ahead and strike”.

    Nice try at putting words in my mouth. I have said elsewhere, and repeated here, that I understand where he is coming from but Joe could have split the baby and given the unions some of what they wanted (I may have said “half”) but I specifically said in my reply to you,

    but they could have taken a road less traveled.​

    Nice of you to ignore that. And for the record, yes, they could have “gone ahead and striked” and as I said in an earlier comment suffered the consequences there of. Something real easy for those of us whose asses aren’t on the line to say, not so easy for those whose asses are.

    I have walked off of a dozen or more jobsites over the years. A couple times it wasn’t so easy but usually I had saved enough that it was an easy option. Doing so while putting the necks of a 1,000 or so of my fellow carpenters? I’ll be honest, I don’t have those kind of balls. I’ll respect the judgements of the people involved.

    I mean, isn’t it actually the railroad robber barons’ fault? Don’t Republicans in Congress bear *any* responsibility for Congress’s decisions?

    Who do you think owns the Repubs in congress?

    At least the DEMs aren’t bought and paid for, (as far as I can tell) they just fear the damages Repubs can inflict on behalf of their owners.

  158. 158.

    Ohio Mom

    @Martin: This all sounds great and I appreciate learning all that you shared here. Now if you could map out how to make this happen politically


  159. 159.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Nobody said suicide. I have said (ad nauseum) that the DEMs could have split the baby and given the unions half of what they wanted.

  161. 161.

    Geminid

    @Martin: Morocco is a fairly forward looking country. It’s also an autocracy with centralized decision making and a very streamlined permitting process. As in, what the King and his ministers want, they get.

    This not too say that we couldn’t benefit from fast tracking rail projects, and power grid enhancement too. But I think we’ll never achieve the level of high speed rail that is seen in Europe and Japan because our population is too spread out.

    Plus, we already have a very developed air transport system that is faster and can run on carbon neutral fuel if Congress gets around to mandating it. House Democrats actually considered a phased-in mandate when putting together their clean energy/climate change package last year. They dropped it, I think because it’s a few years premature, but I think there will be a phase-in of carbon neutral aircraft fuel before too long.

  162. 162.

    PsiFighter37

    DNC / White House released the plan: make SC first, add Georgia and Michigan to the first 5 (glad to see Georgia there), and punt Iowa into irrelevancy. Good.

  163. 163.

    Martin

    @sralloway: Yeah. I mean, in time that’s where we’ll go, but you have to understand that 50% of the planets canned tomatoes are grown in CA. The scale of the operation is massive and it’s gotten that big because we can do it really inexpensively.

    Greenhouses are a bit of a catch-22. They are unquestionably better for retaining water, but it’s already 120 degrees where we grow this stuff. Cooling a greenhouse in that environment without opening it up to wipe out the water savings benefits is nearly impossible. There’s some research showing that solar roofs providing intermittent direct sun is both better for yields and allows for managing heat/water, but we’re talking pretty high capital costs. Netherlands got there because they had to. So far California hasn’t had to.

    But because CA is dedicated to high labor crops (most of our crops grow just fine elsewhere in the country, but they don’t have any labor) it lends well to greenhouses for salad and other ground crops. All of our tree corps – fruit, nuts won’t work. My guess is that almonds and pistachios stops being something we can grow, and we grow almost all of it. Over 80% globally for almonds and 70% for pistachios.

    My guess is that CA tomato growers keep replacing their crops (CA used to be the largest rice grower in the US and we’ve cut that by like 70%) and move down to lower water demand crops. That’ll fuck up the market pretty badly for a while and when prices soar, either Mexico will further step up to the extent they have water to do so, or other states will figure out how to tolerate farm workers, or CA farmers will find the cost-benefit of building greenhouses. But it’s risky because without any real ability to gauge future water costs here, it’s hard to gauge whether such an investment will pay off.

    Again, if CA was a minority player here it wouldn’t be that big of a problem, but there’s barely a single almond tree outside of California. There’s no other markets that can just ramp up a bit to replace our market. I don’t think there are enough farmworkers in any other state in the US to take over just the CA tomato crop. But the country has allowed this kind of imbalance to get worse because labor is hard, so every other state has chased crops that didn’t require it. If this drought continues to get worse, we’re going to hit a really critical point as a country. Dr Ozs rant about charcuterie vegetables was like a big ‘uh, duh’ moment here in CA because we’ve seen those crops getting fallowed due to lack of water. Where the fuck do people think 95% of the nations broccoli is grown? And the rest? Arizona, which is in even WORSE shape regarding water (and doing less about it).

    I see all of these stories about inflation and food prices and nobody, I mean, not one single mention that California has fallowed 750,000 acres due to lack of water.

    I mean, here’s how badly US ag policy is for the nation. Here’s the USDA list of top farm states by principal acres grown.

    1. Iowa (24.410 million acres)
    2. Kansas (23.979 million acres)
    3. North Dakota (23.724 million acres)
    4. Illinois (22.940 million acres)
    5. Texas (22.261 million acres)
    6. Nebraska (19.697 million acres)
    7. Minnesota (19.351 million acres)
    8. South Dakota (17.080 million acres)
    9. Missouri (14.319 million acres)
    10. Indiana (11.850 million acres)

    CA has 45 million acres of farmland and doesn’t even show up on the list because we don’t grow row crops – corn, wheat, soybeans, cotton. You only count if you can run a combine over it, not if you have half a million farm workers working the fields by hand. That’s a federal agency that for all intents and purposes doesn’t even acknowledge the state.

    Here’s their top 10 farm subsidy states:

    1 Texas $39,874,593,163 9.4% 9.4%
    2 Iowa $35,523,046,303 8.4% 17.8%
    3 Illinois $29,480,408,930 6.9% 24.7%
    4 Minnesota $24,721,948,638 5.8% 30.5%
    5 Kansas $24,648,223,205 5.8% 36.3%
    6 Nebraska $24,250,509,399 5.7% 42.1%
    7 North Dakota $23,024,032,845 5.4% 47.5%
    8 South Dakota $18,201,318,246 4.3% 51.8%
    9 Missouri $15,545,204,679 3.7% 55.4%
    10 Indiana $14,887,369,939 3.5% 58.9%

    California is 12th, with double the utilized farmland as the 2nd largest ag state. The very *concept* of agriculture in the US is busted and we’re running headlong into a ‘hey, why didn’t somebody say something’ moment.

    I hate that I’m always chicken little on this stuff, but I’m thinking back to early 2020 modeling out a scenario where a million Americans die of Covid and nobody wanting to accept that possibility, and well, here we are…

  165. 165.

    ian

    I think this is progress, but I would prefer if we did rotating regional primaries.  1 presidential election, have the south go first.  Four years later, west coast, 4 years after that mountain west… and so forth.

    Benefits would be candidates could campaign in 1 region for a set period.  Every four years a different part of the country would go first.  No one state would ever get to go first in this framework.  It would be difficult to get all 50 states to be on board, but I think it would be the best way.

  166. 166.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kent: A majority of unions did vote in favor and a majority of railroad workers across all unions also voted to approve. It was several small unions that narrowly voted to oppose

    All your obfuscations aside can not hide the fact that you choose to ignore the fact that all the unions agreed that it had to be unanimous across all the unions.

    So many of you folks have no idea of what it’s like to work on a union jobsite. I never worked on a united union job site. I always wanted to but we just couldn’t come together. The first jobsite I walked onto a union electrician kicked the ladder out from under an a union SWB worker for stringing wires he thought were his to pull. One of my coworkers got a chain wrapped around his rib cage because the union rules in IL were different than in MO but we were ignorant. You have no idea how joyous a thing that would have been for me to work with electricians and iron workers and glaziers and pipe fitters and sheet metal workers and carpenters all on the the same page.

    Dawg Damn. These folks came together in support of each other, a singular goal in and of itself, and folks can’t wait to throw them under the bus for not accepting less.

  167. 167.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @geg6: To repeat myself, again,

    ​Joe could have split the baby and given the unions some of what they wanted

  168. 168.

    Martin

    @Geminid: Again, 83% of Americans live in cities. We are not that spread out. It’s only 72% in the EU. They are more spread out than we are.

    The problem is we made shitty investments in interstates, let the railroads go to shit, and now we’re dealing with a climate change problem and having to build up from a state not much better than Europe was faced with in 1945. We can keep denying that we made shitty investments and keep throwing money down that hole, but eventually we’re going to have to come up with better ways of moving people around, and EVs simply aren’t good enough and never will be.

  172. 172.

    OzarkHillbilly

    It is late, time got a way from me. I am tired of yelling into the void. Now, it’s your turn.

  177. 177.

    Geminid

    @Martin: We just made a $60 billion dollar investment in AMTRAK. The head of that system said the money allocated by the Infrastructure bill exceeded investment since that system’s founding. It will allow the expansion of a service map that has been static even as the nation has added 130 million people. That’s not enough, but it’s a start.

    And I believe that Western Europe, where most of the EU’s high speed rail can be found, is less spread out than the US once you get outside the coastal Northeast. Sure, high speed rail service between Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth could be economically efficient. How many other potential routes can you say that about? Pittsburgh to Cleveland to Chicago to Minneapolis? Maybe. Chicago to Denver? I don’t think so.

    High speed rail has become a talisman of modernity. I question this. It’s not required for achieving carbon neutral high speed transport. That can be done with our existing air transport system, which already services many more population centers than high speed rail service ever could.

    I think rail has a big part to play in our future transportation mix, especially within our larger population centers.  But it doesn’t have to move people at 200 miles an hour to be beneficial.

  178. 178.

    David 🩃The EstablishmentđŸ„§ Koch

    @Kent: ​
     

    a majority of railroad workers across all unions also voted to approve. 

  179. 179.

    James E Powell

    @PsiFighter37:

    They won’t vote a Democrat unless the Republicans truly bring the country to the edge of catastrophe (a la Bush in 2008, when even fucking Indiana voted for the black man).

    It still amazes me that that happened. I don’t think anything remotely like that will happen again. White supremacy has totally taken over that end of the electorate. They have no other issue or policy.

  181. 181.

    Another Scott

    @HumboldtBlue: It’s fine to be upset that it’s not as good as we all think it should be.  But, like it or not, progress is always incremental.

    PBS.org (from September 15):

    The five-year deal, retroactive to 2020, also includes $5,000 in bonuses. The railroads agreed to ease their strict attendance policies to address union concerns about working conditions.

    Railroad workers will now be able to take unpaid days off for doctor’s appointments without being penalized. Previously, workers would lose points under the attendance systems at BNSF and Union Pacific railways, and they could be disciplined if they lost all their points.

    The talks also included Norfolk Southern, CSX, Kansas City Southern and the U.S. operations of Canadian National.

    The unions that represent conductors and engineers who drive the trains had pressed hard for changes in the attendance rules, and they said the deal sets a precedent that ensures they will be able to negotiate such rules in the future.

    Victor Chen, a sociologist at Virginia Commonwealth University who studies labor, said concerns about working conditions have increasingly become a priority for unions and the workers they represent.

    “At a certain point, good wages just aren’t enough to make up for the toll these sorts of working conditions impose on workers,” Chen said. “The companies need to treat workers like human beings, rather than just inputs in a business process.”

    The railroad unions pointed to workload and attendance rules after the major railroads cut nearly one-third of their workforce — some 45,000 jobs — over the past six years.

    The railroad industry has aggressively cut costs everywhere and shifted its operations to rely more on fewer, longer trains, which use fewer locomotives and fewer employees. The unions said the remaining workers, particularly engineers and conductors, were on call 24-7 because of jobs cuts and could hardly take any time off under strict attendance rules.

    It’s progress. This contract lasts until 2025 (only 2+ years from now), so labor will have a chance to build on these gains in the not too distant future.

    Railroads have been fighting rules requiring 2 person crews on freight trains. Biden has said this contract requires 2 person crews – it’s a win. Companies always want to cut staff, and if railroads could fire all their crews they would. This contract slows that process.

    Could Biden and the congress forced the companies to do more? Maybe. Maybe not. Biden and Pelosi and Schumer aren’t stupid. They know how far they can go given the realities of the bodies.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  182. 182.

    David 🩃The EstablishmentđŸ„§ Koch

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
    goppers won’t give him 60 votes if the rail companies are against it.

    They willing to provide votes if the majority of all the parties agree to a contract, but not when there’s an impasse.

  183. 183.

    David 🩃The EstablishmentđŸ„§ Koch

    This old engine makes it on time
    Leaves Central Station
    ‘Bout a quarter to nine
    Hits River Junction at seventeen: two
    At a quarter to ten
    You know it’s travelin’ again

  185. 185.

    geg6

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Well, first thing is that Joe didn’t impose this.  Congress did.  Joe advocated for the sick time and Congress said no.  He cannot send the economy into the tank.  And the rail workers got some of what they wanted as agreed to by the majority of the unions and members collectively.  Progress is always incremental.  It’s terrible that the railroad companies are such horrible employers who endanger their workers and make us all more unsafe by making accidents more likely.  But that seems little different from most employers these days. At least the rail workers have a union to fight for them (and, in the big picture, for all of us).  But the much more vulnerable and numerous workers without unions who would suffer from a strike just seem to me to require doing what is required for the greater good.  It’s hardly a Harry Truman level “betrayal” of labor. (I believe Truman’s actions were probably also required for the greater good, though much more a blunt object in practice than what is happening now.)

  186. 186.

    jonas

    @Sister Golden Bear: ​
      You’re not kidding. It’s like “Hello? 911? I need an ambulance stat for a severe burn victim…”

    It’ll be interesting to see whether Cannon slinks back into her chambers and essentially tries not to be seen for a good while until the sting of this legal spanking abates, or whether she’s like “Wev, assholes! Any crazy MAGA shit need a favorable ruling? The Cannonator! is open for business! Sure any opinion I hand down is going to be overturned in seconds, but that’s exactly as much time as you need to board your private jet for Dubai!”

  187. 187.

    dnfree

    @sab: Paid sick leave is a different matter for many union employees than it is for office jobs.  I mentioned the other day that I worked in IT at a unionized tire factory.  If a worker called in sick, either there was a machine without an operator, or someone had to be found to work overtime at higher pay. It affects production and cost.  If I as a programmer called in sick, a little less programming got done.  But the “rule” for salaried employees was that we not take sick days even if we were sick, since union employees didn’t get them.

  188. 188.

    dnfree

    @HumboldtBlue: as I understand it, eight unions approved the contract and four voted against.  It would be interesting to know the relative number of people in the approving unions vs the non-approving unions, or the vote margin in each union.

    ETA I think the 8-4 breakdown gives the administration a little more cover than if all 12 unions had voted no?

  189. 189.

    Citizen Alan

    @OzarkHillbilly: “The DEMS” could do a lot of things if Sinema and Manchin would agree to scrap the filibuster for it. But they won’t, and the rest of the party has no means for making them do so in a 50-50 senate.

  190. 190.

    Miss Bianca

    @OzarkHillbilly: Late to the party, but I *have* worked on union job sites. Just fyi. I may be clueless, but I’m not *completely* clueless, about how the process works.

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