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When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

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It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

This really is a full service blog.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

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This fight is for everything.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Donald Trump Is About To Go Through Some Things

Donald Trump Is About To Go Through Some Things

by | 193 Comments

This post is in: 

Well, now it’s Friday and I think we can definitively stat that this has not been a good week for Donald Trump.

Christopher Bouzy’s one line take is the best:

It couldn’t happen to a nicer person.

How about a thread where we spike the football and celebrate what a no good, terrible, horrible day/week/month the orange one is having?

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

193Comments

  4. 4.

    Calouste

    The good news for the shitgibbon this week is that a personality with millions of followers joined his social network. The bad news is that it is Nazye, who got banned from pretty much everywhere else.

  5. 5.

    Old School

    It seems like Trump has been having no good, terrible, horrible days/weeks/months consistently for years.

    He’s probably used to it by now.

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    Related good news from research on midterm election voters (HuffPo):

    Six in 10 voters cited protecting democracy as an extremely important reason that they decided to vote in November. This put the issue ahead of inflation (53%), abortion (47%) and crime (45%). When asked to choose the top two issues that motivated them to vote, 50% chose protecting democracy, second only to inflation at 55%.

    A lot of pundits and consultants said Biden’s pre-midterms speech about democracy being in danger was bad strategy. Looks like they were wrong.

    Also, re: Tribe’s tweet about the 11th Circuit’s opinion — not only was it bad news for Trump, it was a deep humiliation for the partisan hack judge in Florida. Bonus!

  9. 9.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker: That was one of my favorite parts, too.

    “The corrupt, totally-in-the-bag-for-Trump, judge should never have taken this up in the first place.  Dear hack judge, we are compelling you to reverse course and undo your mess immediately.”

    paraphrased

  10. 10.

    cain

    @Betty Cracker: What price will these pundits face for being wrong?

    Probably none, but those who did – we should question their bonifides are a constant basis – not watch their shows or share their “pearls of wisdom”.

  13. 13.

    trollhattan

    Remember Devin Nunes? Me either, but he’s putting the band back together for a reunion tour, involving really bad lawyers.

    Former Congressman Devin Nunes has filed another lawsuit against CNN, this one over statements that one of its anchors, Jake Tapper, made about Republican reaction to the attack on Paul Pelosi. Nunes, 49, is suing the news organization and Tapper over comments on his Oct. 31 show that conservative figures proliferated conspiracy theories about Pelosi’s connection to his attacker.

    The former congressman’s complaint points to five sets of statements, one of which mentions the California Republican directly. All concern a conspiracy theory that Pelosi, husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and his attacker David DePape were in a sexual relationship. Paul Pelosi, 82, did not know DePape, 42, before he broke into the Pelosi’s San Francisco home in October. DePape said he was searching for the speaker, who was not in San Francisco at the time, intending to hold her hostage and break her kneecaps if she “lied,” according to a federal criminal complaint against him.

    DePape hit Paul Pelosi with a hammer before police intervened. Pelosi suffered a skull fracture and injuries to his right arm and hands that required surgery and kept him in the hospital for almost a week. On Truth Social — former President Donald Trump’s social media company that Nunes left Congress to join as chief executive— Tapper said that Nunes “shared this Halloween image with the words, ‘at least this guy has his clothes on.’

    Nunes also reposted this meme using a poster for the gay romantic comedy Bros, twisting it into a smear of Paul Pelosi. And, again, the man who tried to bash Paul Pelosi’s head in with a hammer. Words fail.” Another of Tapper’s comments that Nunes’ lawyers pulled out is simply, “What is wrong with these people?”

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article269469442.html#storylink=cpy

    This fookin’ guy, somebody needs to practice hammer skills against his pate.

  18. 18.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Question for those among us who are less ignorant than I am:

    Can the Supreme Court find the Respect for Marriage act unconstitutional? Or does that violate separation of powers?

  19. 19.

    Josie

    I hope there is a way the house committee can pass the tax records over to a senate committee when/before the new session begins.​

  22. 22.

    Tom Levenson

    a) (indications of) much less wealth than Trump wants people to believe he has.

    b) evidence of fraud in statements to third parties.

  23. 23.

    Brachiator

    The 11th Circuit has unanimously ruled Judge Cannon is out: “To create a special exception here would defy our Nation’s foundational principle that our law applies “to all, without regard to numbers, wealth, or rank.” State of Georgia v. Brailsford, 3 U.S. (3 Dall.) 1, 4 (1794)!

    I am not a lawyer, and don’t even play one on the Internet, but I read the opinion early this morning and it made me smile. It seemed to clearly rebuke the judge who bent over backwards to help Trump and demolished all of Trump’s claims to justify why he was trying to keep his stash of documents.

    I wonder whether Fox News has had much to say about any of this.

  25. 25.

    Alison Rose

    LOL die mad about it, trump.

    Also, fuck Bush but this made me snicker

    The funniest possible thing that could happen right now is George Bush Jr saying Kanye West doesn’t care about black people on national television.
    — Michael Imperiolism (@DadShammdad) December 1, 2022

  28. 28.

    Scout211

    IANAL, but I expect that Trump’s attorneys will appeal the 11th Circuit’s decision to SCOTUS in the next few days or ask for a decision from the whole 11th panel. He has a week (from yesterday). After SCOTUS has rejected his many recent appeals, I don’t see them giving him relief. It will give Trump more time on the clock but that’s all.

    Again, NAL, but I would expect Cannon to wait until the week is over to officially dismiss the case (as she was directed to do). Ha ha.

    In other Trump news, he recently made a video for the Patriot Freedom Project that expressed his “support” for the J6 insurrectionists.  Link

    Do these people have a clue that if he really “supported” them, he could have done something anytime in the past 2 1/2 years? They are so gullible, they don’t even understand that Trump promising “he would issue pardons and a government apology to those being prosecuted if he were reelected” is not support.  It’s just another fundraising plea to pad his never-ending grift.

  29. 29.

    Geminid

    @Tom Levenson: There could also be some interesting leads concerning shell corporations in these tax filings.

    Which reminds me: the Treasury Department has written up its rules for reporting under the Corporate Transparency Act passed in the last lame duck session. The Act is intended to force disclosure of the “beneficial,” or actual, ownership of shell corporations.

    These will not be public records but will be available to federal, state and Tribal officials looking into fraud, tax evasion, etc. The Act takes effect January 1st, and New York Democrat Carolyn Maloney was a key sponsor

  30. 30.

    Brachiator

    @C Stars:

    What exactly do we think is in those tax returns?

    His tax returns may indicate that Trump is not as rich as he claims. Other than that, you can’t really speculate.

    I don’t know which returns he has been forced to surrender. His individual tax returns may show passthrough income and losses from some of his business interests, but some more Juicy details may be in the business returns. Don’t know whether he has any trusts established.

  31. 31.

    piratedan

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: all I will say that with the court as its currently constructed, NOTHING is safe.

    Those conservative justices scream about respecting the institution and demand that because they are members that it ipso facto applies to them, meanwhile flaunting all of the established norms that supposedly comprise the reputation for fairness and impartiality.  Sure, lets invite abortion activists into the sacrosanct judges chambers while deciding upon those vary same lawsuits and what about these vacations and charity donations to their hearts desires in order to gain access that no one else has to pedal their papers.

  33. 33.

    dr. bloor

    @trollhattan:

    This fookin’ guy, somebody needs to practice hammer skills against his pate.

    Let him sue.  Finding out that discovery goes both ways will be much worse than a hammer to the growth on top of his neck.

  35. 35.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Ben Meiselas of the Meidas Touch podcast has been continually pointing out that any indictment of Trump before the Executive Privilege issue was fully resolved would have likely failed because they all rely on securing testimony of Trumps direct words in order to have any chance of meeting the high bar of Beyond Reasonable Doubt for a conviction.

    In short, the answer to the age-old question of “Why hasn’t he been indicted yet?” is “Because he would’ve been acquitted” if he had.  And that would have ruined our one chance to hold him criminally accountable.  DOJ also needed the Special Master issue to be resolved in order to get the rest of those documents back.

    This stuff takes time, just due to the nature and scheduling of the courts, in addition to the many other moving parts involved.

    What we are now seeing is the result of Garland and the DOJ setting these things in motion a long time ago.  Now we are seeing courts compel testimony from Trump staffers and even high-ranking Republicans involved in 1/6, Fraudulent Electors and Stolen Documents.  The Oathkeepers have been convicted of Seditious Conspiracy and the Proud Boys are next, opening possibilities that someone will flip and give up goods on Stone, Jones, and even Trump, to get a reduced sentence.  State courts are also forcing Trump allies to testify in the Fraudulent Elector scheme.  And New York’s new law allows E. Jean Carroll to proceed with her sexual assault/rape lawsuit against Trump.

  36. 36.

    cain

    @Tom Levenson: A compromised man with Russian wealth connections.

    Gosh, is the audit still on-going? Maybe that is his defense going forward? How dare you do this before I have a chance to correct the record when the audit is over – wait for the audit to complete!

  38. 38.

    Scout211

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: IANAL, but doesn’t the case first have to find someone harmed by this decision  law to file a lawsuit in their jurisdiction before it can reached SCOTUS after all the appeals are exhausted?

    Finding someone who is harmed by respecting other people’s marriages? Seems a stretch. But who knows.

  39. 39.

    sukabi

    @trollhattan: Don’t know why Nunes persists in his sue-a-thon, I don’t think he’s won one yet. Hard to prove defamation when you sue over someone commenting on what you yourself publicly published…

  40. 40.

    Ruckus

    @Old School:

    He’s probably used to it by now.

    I don’t think so…..

    He’s used to being the wealthiest in the room (it’s a small room) and being surrounded by sycophants who can’t work on a higher plane so he’s the mark and as he’s about as smart as a marble, he thinks they are his friends. His “friends” are going to jail for the things they’ve done for him and that leaves him as the only target left and the sights are clear, the law is clear, the history is clear, and his pea brain is starting to get the picture. He’s in deep shit without a paddle or canoe. And he’s beginning to recognize the smell…

  42. 42.

    WaterGirl

    @Josie: Regarding the taxes, it’s my understanding that the House committee could also make a referral to the DOJ.  They could also release pieces of the information publicly before the new House is sworn in.

    I can’t recall whether I heard that on the Preet or the Popehat podcast.

  43. 43.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Tom Levenson: Does anyone in their right mind think that the rampant lying to the IRS with respect to square footage, value etc., that we saw at Trump Org., was only confined to there and that Trump didn’t likely do the same dame thing in his personal taxes? (rhetorical question)

  44. 44.

    cain

    @UncleEbeneezer: bad times for Trump and his lackeys – especially his lackeys. In many ways, they are even more dangerous than Trump is.

    It will be interesting to see what the far right news outlets like Newsmax, OANN and Fox News due once that indictment comes down.

    What will Qanon do? Because they’ve made Trump the hero of their conspiracies. Trumpers I think are going to stick to him in the end – I mean, they’ve  made him their God, and symbol of Christendom. (spit up)

  45. 45.

    MattF

    I’m guessing that TFG’s tax returns will show that his net worth is negative, until you add in the value of his ‘brand’.

  46. 46.

    Ken

    @cain: Now that the House has the tax returns, they can release them to the public. Then we can crowdsource the audit and get it done in a couple of hours.

  48. 48.

    Barbara

    I think my favorite part of that opinion was the response to Trump’s assertion that he showed a need for the return because the documents were his property — it was the equivalent of “well, duh, most things seized under a search warrant are the property of the person whose premises were searched.” That’s like, not an argument for not letting the government use them to investigate a crime. “Hey, they can’t use my computer to show I was laundering money — that’s MY computer.”

    Apparently Chris Kise made some really complicated argument for why the appeal was invalid and the court didn’t even bother to address it.

  49. 49.

    cain

    @UncleEbeneezer: In which case, why has the IRS not acted upon any of it?

    That’s likely why we’re going to need those huge surge of IRS agents to come down on wealthy white millionaires who ostensibly claim that they came to all that through meritocracy. lol.

  55. 55.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: that’s the one I was gonna share with all the RWNJs in my life…except I realized they’ll ignore it like they’ve ignored all the other warnings re: trumpov.

    It did inspire me a bit: I’m drafting a piece called “I’m Never Gonna Get That Apology, Am I?” in time for the second anniversary of J6.  Let’s see if I can get it published somewhere anywhere at all.  =)

  57. 57.

    raven

    The key to Capone’s conviction on tax charges was not his spending, but proving his income, and the most valuable evidence in that regard originated in his offer to pay tax. Ralph, his brother and a gangster in his own right, was tried for tax evasion in 1930. Ralph spent the next 18 months in prison after being convicted in a two-week trial over which Wilkerson presided.[100] Seeking to avoid the same fate, Al Capone ordered his lawyer to regularize his tax position, and although it was not done, his lawyer made crucial admissions when stating the income that Capone was willing to pay tax on for various years, admitting income of $100,000 for 1928 and 1929, for instance. Hence, without any investigation, the government had been given a letter from a lawyer acting for Capone conceding his large taxable income for certain years he had paid no tax on. On March 13, 1931, Capone was charged with income tax evasion for 1924, in a secret grand jury. On June 5, 1931, Capone was indicted by a federal grand jury on 22 counts of income tax evasion from 1925 through 1929; he was released on $50,000 bail.

  58. 58.

    Gravenstone

    @Josie: I keep seeing suggestions that they be handed to a joint Congressional committee that is responsible for tax issues (the specific name escapes me). In 2023 it will be headed by a Senator, therefore a Democrat.

  61. 61.

    kalakal

    @C Stars: Any illegality aside, Trumps entire business, both the property side and his grifting of his MAGA marks depends on his image as being a very wealthy success rather than being a clown living on credit. Destroy that facade and his finances are toast.

    Probably just as important in what passes for his brain is his own ego, he’s the smart one, the success, why manly men with tears in their eyes tell him so. The idea that all world gets to see him as a stupid loser is his worst nightmare.

    The world seeing his Tax returns could well shatter him

  62. 62.

    Delk

    All I want for Christmas is to never have to see his name on that building when I’m waiting at the Wabash/Washington L stop.

  63. 63.

    Ken

    @MattF: I’m guessing that TFG’s tax returns will show that his net worth is negative, until you add in the value of his ‘brand’.

    The value of his brand is imaginary, so all that adding it will do is make his net worth complex. Though that complexity can still be reduced to a negative real part, and a completely imaginary part.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    How about a thread where we spike the football and celebrate what a no good, terrible, horrible day/week/month the orange one is having?

    Spike the football? No thanks! While this is certainly a moment to celebrate, I think the celebration would be much improved if we spiked the punch instead!

    Speaking of which, there’s some liquor in the other room that’s calling my name…

  65. 65.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Vox video on why Florida is so fucking weird.

    The TL:DR is “the state is overrun by generations of people who have fallen for swamp land scams”, and an exceptional concentration of suckers would explain the state voters enthusiasm for the party of gifters.

  66. 66.

    BruceFromOhio

    The things I want to see TFG going through is intake, delousing and cell block assignment.

    Until then, yawn. And more George Takei’s takes. Mr. Sulu, you made me snork.

  67. 67.

    Geminid

    Stolen from Xeni Jardin:

        “All I want for Christmas is his two front teeth….”

    Jardin was saying this last December, about Ghislane Maxwell.

  68. 68.

    Kent

    @Brachiator:I don’t know which returns he has been forced to surrender. His individual tax returns may show passthrough income and losses from some of his business interests, but some more Juicy details may be in the business returns. Don’t know whether he has any trusts established.

    Technically he isn’t going to be forced to surrender any of them.  the IRS actually already has all of them.  This is only about whether the IRS will share what it has with Congress.

    Presumably they can ask for any or all of them as far back as the law allows.  And if he loses this one then they can go back for more years in a more streamlined process.

  69. 69.

    Wag

    “To create a special exception here would defy our Nation’s foundational principle that our law applies “to all, without regard to numbers, wealth, or rank.” State of Georgia v. Brailsford, 3 U.S. (3 Dall.) 1, 4 (1794)

     

    I hope that our present SC doesn’t decide to take it upon themselves to overturn a precedent dating back to 1794.   Although as strict originalists maybe they can find something a couple i years before that is “more original.”

  71. 71.

    Kent

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Question for those among us who are less ignorant than I am:

    Can the Supreme Court find the Respect for Marriage act unconstitutional? Or does that violate separation of powers?

    Yes they can strike it down, but it is a much higher standard to meet.

    By striking down Roe the court simply said that abortion rights weren’t contained in (or guaranteed by) the Constitution.  That is fundamentally different from ruling that abortion rights VIOLATE the constitution.

    If the court were to strike down Obergefell they would simply be saying “We read the 14th Amendment again and sorry, we can’t find where equal protection means gay marriage must be legal.”

    Whereas if they strike down the Respect for Marriage Act they would have to find that it actually VIOLATES the Constitution in some fatal way.  Which is a MUCH bigger lift.  They might still be able to twist reality to make that argument.  But it is a much different argument than simply overturning Obergefell.

  72. 72.

    Ken

    @Wag: I hope that our present SC doesn’t decide to take it upon themselves to overturn a precedent dating back to 1794.   Although as strict originalists maybe they can find something a couple i years before that is “more original.”

    “L’État, c’est moi” — Louis XIV, 1655.

    “Suck on it, libtard.” — Samuel Alito, majority opinion in Trump v. Humanity, 2023.

  73. 73.

    trollhattan

    Today’s Letters of Note is addressed to the Rolling Stones from a school student in Fiji, while the Stones were vacationing there in 1966. Evidently not in the thrall of the British Invasion or rock and roll, in general. No satisfaction was acquired.

    To the Rolling Stones,

    Just wanted you to know, me and my friends with nearly the whole school, HATE you. Because you don’t look like men, you are nothing but ANIMALS, and smell like them too. We know also that you are DIRTY and STINK. You probably never have baths which is typical of English pigs like you. I hope that you hurry up and go away from clean Fiji, because we don’t want you here, you PIGS. We HATE HATE HATE you. I am speaking on behalf of 640 kids who all HATE you. So go and pick some pigsty in the slums of smelly England and have your MISERABLE holiday there. Your stupid road manager was upset about no-one greeting you, because we HATE you. Your road manager needs a POKE. If you dare to set foot in Suva, me and my friends will tell some of the MEN of Fiji (Suva), to come and SPIT on you, and go to the TOILET on you. Thats all your worth. So do what I said, and GET OUT, we HATE you.

  75. 75.

    David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch

    @sukabi: ​
      It’s impossible to win under FTFNYT v Sullivan. It’s a very high burden to prove malice. Plus if Alito overturned the law to favor Nunez then it would be open season on Fox and Hate Radio station and he ain’t gonna do that.

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    @Scout211: It would take the sort of mentality that produced, “If somebody’s student loans are forgiven, that makes my degree, which I paid for, less valuable.”

    For the record, I have heard and read variations on this dozens of times.

  77. 77.

    Yutsano

    @Kent: ​”The Act in question did not repeal the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Because religious freedom is so highly enshrined in our Constitution, we can’t allow a subsequent law to override that sacred liberty. We therefore overturn the Respect for Marriage Act in its entirety.”

    – Clarence “Unca Ruckus” Thomas, possibly.

  78. 78.

    Citizen Alan

    @Brachiator: What I hope is in Shitgibbon’s tax returns is (1) evidence that he valued real property he owned for tax purposes substantially less than he valued it for loan collateral purposes, which opens him up to tax evasion, bank fraud, or both, and (2) evidence that for many years prior to him running for office, his actual lenders were people connected with Putin or other oligarchs.

  79. 79.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scout211: Every yokel county clerk who has to put their stamp on a legal document suggested that a same-sex couple is married will claim standing to allege that their religious freedom has been violated, and if they come before the right Trump judge, they could win.

  81. 81.

    Citizen Alan

    @cain: I’ve said for years now that most evangelicals would happily tattoo the mark of the Beast on their foreheads if the Antichrist promised to put the blacks, the gays, and the uppity bitches back in their place.

  82. 82.

    Redshift

    @Brachiator:

    His tax returns may indicate that Trump is not as rich as he claims. Other than that, you can’t really speculate.

    And remember the reports about the roast of TFG on TV, way back — the one thing that he demanded in the contract was that the comedians were forbidden to joke about him not being as rich as he claimed.

  83. 83.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve always been a bit suspicious of conclusions like that because of the possibility that by “protecting democracy” they mean “undoing the stolen 2020 election and putting Trump back in.”

  84. 84.

    David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch

    @Yutsano: ​
      Not only that, they’ll go 10th amendment and say interstate marriage isn’t a power delegated to the federal government in the constitution (ie states rights).

  85. 85.

    JPL

    @Matt McIrvin:  Bingo.   In GA people voting for Hershel said saving democracy and Social Security are at the top of their list.  This was a poll before the election, so I don’t have a link.  I’m sure the same folks feel the same way.

  86. 86.

    Redshift

    @Wag: From what I understood based on the discussion of the court hearing, TFG’s lawyers understood that they would lose if they argued that he was entitled to special treatment as a former president, so when the court asked whether that is what they were claiming, they instead insisted they meant every defendant was entitled to demand their property back after a search warrant and to have a special master review it. I’m not sure if there’s a legal term for “having to choose between two nearly equally insane arguments to satisfy our client,” any lawyers here want to chime in?

  87. 87.

    Bill Arnold

    @emmyelle:

    Honestly this is either a year and a half too early or two and a half years too late

    I will enjoy replying with the opposite any time a professional Eeyore uses one of these.

  88. 88.

    Hoodie

    @Betty Cracker: Interesting article, kind of elliptically gets at a key issue of the GOP re Trump, i.e., they continue to act like Trump is something inflicted on them instead of viewing him as something they inflicted on the country.  That’s one of the things that bothers me when even Trump detractors like Liz Cheney try to pin all of this on Trump.  They don’t fully acknowledge that there is a reason why Trump was able to take over the GOP.  He represents them.  The things he would do to get popular support were more acceptable to them than changing their policies so they didn’t need to rely on racism, misogyny and xenophobia to get votes. Donald Trump was what allowed them to continue kissing the asses of their wealthy donors without losing political power.

  89. 89.

    Scout211

    @David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch: Not only that, they’ll go 10th amendment and say interstate marriage isn’t a power delegated to the federal government in the constitution (ie states rights).

    Now that argument seems more powerful and frankly, kind of scary. I hope it doesn’t come to that.

  90. 90.

    JustRuss

    The 11th Circuit has unanimously ruled Judge Cannon is out: “To create a special exception here would defy our Nation’s foundational principle that our law applies “to all, without regard to numbers, wealth, or rank.”

    Stay tuned as we ask the salt-of-the-earth patrons of this small-town diner if they think that sounds like Socialism!

  91. 91.

    sab

    @David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch: I thought the current majority in the S Ct only recognized the 2nd amendment. The other amendments are contrary to the Founders’ original intent before the Founders decided to amend things as per the amendment procedures in the Founders’ original document.

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    @Citizen Alan:

    What I hope is in Shitgibbon’s tax returns is (1) evidence that he valued real property he owned for tax purposes substantially less than he valued it for loan collateral purposes, which opens him up to tax evasion, bank fraud, or both, and (2) evidence that for many years prior to him running for office, his actual lenders were people connected with Putin or other oligarchs.

    I am taking a break at work and have not thought deeply about this, but if the fair market value of assets are reflected accurately on the actual tax returns, I don’t think he could be nailed for tax evasion. But I don’t know what documents he submitted when he was getting loans.

    I also see that Congress is getting six years of tax returns and related business records.

  93. 93.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scout211:

    Oh yeah, we’re all fucked if there are 5 votes for interpreting the 10th Amendment to ban all federal action not expressly listed as a federal power under the most restrictive interpretation of the Constitution imaginable.

  94. 94.

    Citizen Alan

    @JustRuss: Off topic but how hilarious is it that the people who have been screaming for years that all Dems are Communists now believe that Congress should (or even can) pass a law to compel a private company (Apple) to run ads on Twitter.

  96. 96.

    Kent

    This seems rather pertinent.  And somewhat related to Trump’s future.  I haven’t seen this news on other web sites:

    https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putin-falls-down-stairs-and-soils-himself-claims-suggest/news-story/4da8667ecd4e6b21c871617f08f5959b

    Putin fell down stairs, soiled himself as speculation over health grows: report

    The Russian president, 70, was supposedly helped to a sofa by bodyguards as his personal doctors rushed to assist him.

    The account is the latest from a Russian Telegram channel named General SVR which regularly suggests the warmonger is suffering from multiple health problems not disclosed by the Kremlin.

    The alleged fall led to bruising of his coccyx but also highlighted problems from “cancer of the gastrointestinal tract”, it was claimed.

  97. 97.

    sab

    @pluky: Or none of his tax accountants were so stupid. He wasn’t their only client and they had professional licenses to maintain.

  101. 101.

    Barbara

    @Kent: I don’t know if I believe any information leaked about Putin’s health. OTOH, I don’t exactly know why false reports of his bad health would actually help Russia.  True or false, maybe they think that the U.S. or European countries would be more patient in reacting to Russia’s various outrages.

  102. 102.

    Tom Levenson

    @Kent: Comes from a source that seems to make a habit of reporting Putin health problems.

    Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but I wouldn’t take this seriously without a great deal more to go on than this report.

  103. 103.

    frosty

    @Ken: Though that complexity can still be reduced to a negative real part, and a completely imaginary part.

    Nice! (from a math major … until Real Analysis)

  105. 105.

    Martin

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes. They can find anything short of a constitutional amendment to be unconstitutional.

    But the law just passed addresses the theory advanced in the Dobbs decision that Americans have a 9th amendment right to same-sex/interracial marriage with an express declaration by Congress that they do.

    So yes, they could declare it unconstitutional but they’d need to invent a new bullshit theory why it is because Congress checkmated their old theory. Not saying they aren’t up to it… but they’re at least back to the drawing board now, they can’t use Dobbs as a precedent (as if that mattered).

  106. 106.

    Martin

    BTW, Musk announced he’d be revealing the truth about Hunter Biden right now on Twitter. So, checkmate libtards.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    @Hoodie:  Rambling thought.

    They conjured T**** up with all their ugliness and hate. He is everything they are inside, and he says the quiet parts out loud, which is why they love him.  He gives them permission to be as ugly as they are, but they don’t like the consequences when people see them as they are, so some of them want to put the genie back in the bottle, but it doesn’t work that way.

  109. 109.

    Kent

    @Barbara:@Kent: I don’t know if I believe any information leaked about Putin’s health. OTOH, I don’t exactly know why false reports of his bad health would actually help Russia.  True or false, maybe they think that the U.S. or European countries would be more patient in reacting to Russia’s various outrages.

    I would think that if they are false it is much more likely to be Putin opponents leaking the information rather than the Kremlin.  Because if these rumors are correct it makes them have to deny them and just makes him look weak.  There is no upside for a dictator who looks weak.

  110. 110.

    Betty Cracker

    @Matt McIrvin: & @JPL: I agree when there are national polls that say the majority of Americans think democracy is threatened, blah blah blah — that could be because they think Trump was cheated. But this analysis drills down on why people voted for Democrats specifically. If you click thru to the HuffPo piece, there are stats on independents and Republicans voting for Democrats to protect democracy, etc.

  112. 112.

    Martin

    @Ken: They cannot release them to the public. The statute says that Congress can request any taxpayers returns, but must keep them confidential.

    The statute isn’t there to punish individual taxpayers (there’s a judicial process for that) but to know how to shape tax policy by seeing how that tax policy is being used by wealthy individuals, or to investigate national security issues such as granting of security clearances.

  113. 113.

    trollhattan

    Vlad has decided he will enter negotiations, so long as he is declared the winner and assured he keeps everything he has stolen, to date. No counteroffer accepted.

    Russia says the West’s refusal to recognise “new territories” seized from Ukraine makes peace talks harder, after President Joe Biden indicated he would be ready to meet Vladimir Putin.

    The Kremlin said it was open to negotiations, but not on the West’s demand to pull out of Ukraine.

    Russia illegally annexed four Ukrainian regions at the end of September, without controlling any of them.

    Nine months into its invasion, it has lost more than half the land it seized.

    President Biden told reporters on Thursday night that he was ready to meet the Russian leader “if in fact there is an interest in him deciding that he’s looking for a way to end the war”.

    Standing beside him in the White House, France’s Emmanuel Macron made clear the two men had agreed they would never urge the Ukrainians to make a compromise “that will not be acceptable for them”.

    The apparent flurry of diplomatic activity followed months with little sign of enthusiasm for talks. Russia’s military has been forced into a retreat in southern Ukraine while launching widespread attacks on civilian infrastructure.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63832151

    He also gets to use mom’s car this Saturday night, no questions asked.

  115. 115.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker: It’s the same issue as the “is the country on the right track or the wrong track.”

    I can think the Dems are doing a bang-up job, but I can still think the country is on the wrong track because of Republican authoritarianism, etc.

    Bad questions = useless outcomes

    edit:

    Betty: I agree when there are national polls that say the majority of Americans think democracy is threatened, blah blah blah — that could be because they think Trump was cheated. But this analysis drills down on why people voted for Democrats specifically.

    That makes all the difference.  Sorry I didn’t catch that first time around.

  116. 116.

    sab

    @Betty Cracker: Ohio polls thought so too but voted otherwise.

    The only thing that matters is elections

    ETA There is a reason that all my sister’s  kids fled to California as soon as they could. I say there is no water out there. They say they wil take their chances.

  117. 117.

    trollhattan

    @Kent: Russia cannot be fully behind Putin’s presidency and the war–despite their shutting down outside media as much as they can, and destroying Russian free press. Plenty of information still leaks in to the general population.

    The more funerals for soldiers, the less enthused they are about his Ukraine misadventure. Many Russians surely want him gone and are happy to give him a shove.

  124. 124.

    Ksmiami

    @C Stars: they could start looking at mysterious inflows. There was a moment in NYC where the US banks stopped lending to Trump and suddenly Deutsche Bank came to his rescue… since then,  he’s always been financially dependent on Putin and all of his decisions have reflected this.

  126. 126.

    Martin

    @frosty: Real analysis fucks a lot of people up, don’t feel bad about that one. The jump back into serious proof-writing is not an easy one.

  129. 129.

    Barbara

    @Kent: But he isn’t weak among those who “count” and whose support he needs. Until they announce his actual death I am disinclined to speculate. No doubt intelligence agencies have more information.

  130. 130.

    sab

    @Gin & Tonic:  I  started a counter argument ( let’s not be intolerant and judgmental of various ethnicities) and when faced with reality I couldn’t post it.

    Russians live under a horrible government, but when you let them out into a new country they do everything they can do to fuck up the host country like Russia. Example Israel. Run by the Russian mob now.

  134. 134.

    sab

    @Layer8Problem: Thank you so much.

    Eta I am slow migrating to Mastodon because I wasn’t very active in twitter.

    Adjustments need to be made. Resources and all that. I wil wander over later

  135. 135.

    Geminid

    @Ksmiami: When I see clips of Speaker Pelosi telling Trump, “With you, all roads lead to Putin,” I wonder if she was speaking from knowledge not available to the greater public.

    Same with former CIA Director John Brennan. When I saw him speak about Trump on news shows, he always seemed to have a “Cat that Ate the Canary” smile. I’d think to myself, Brennan knows stuff.

    The CIA does not release its files on Americans to the public, and would like to pretend they don’t  exist. But I bet their file on Trump has grown fairly thick since he first visited Moscow in 1985. Same for the NSA.

  136. 136.

    mrmoshpotato

    @C Stars:

    What exactly do we think is in those tax returns? 

    Fraud, being a traitorous shitstain, deep-throating Kremlin cock for money.

  137. 137.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Kent: They’ll just strike down the Lawrence vs Texas decision instead. It’s the SCOTUS decision that decriminalized gay sex.

    Coming to a SCOTUS decision soon: “States may have to respect your same-sex marriage from another state, but they can prosecute you for consummating it.”

    I wish I was joking.

  139. 139.

    Citizen Alan

    @Sister Golden Bear: I too am worried about them overturning Lawrence v Texas. We know from Thomas’s dissent that he absolutely believes that states should be allowed to criminalize “deviant” sex.

  141. 141.

    Yutsano

    @C Stars: ​Exactly why he qualified for a tax deduction in New York city nbothat’s only available to businesses making under $500K a year. I think he’s even generating a net negative income stream that allows him to soak up earned income credit claims also. Plus tax breaks for real estate developers are ridiculous and that will be obvious.

  142. 142.

    Ohio Mom

    Just saw elsewhere (Slava Malamud’s twitter) that Edward Snowden has just become a Russian citizen. Swore his allegiance and got a Russian passport.

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Hoodie:

    That’s one of the things that bothers me when even Trump detractors like Liz Cheney try to pin all of this on Trump. They don’t fully acknowledge that there is a reason why Trump was able to take over the GOP. He represents them. 

    Well, then Dick Jr would have to acknowledge that the GOP has been a fucking “shitpile of bigots and imbeciles” (h/t driftglass) since at least Reagan.

  149. 149.

    Kent

    @Ohio Mom:Just saw elsewhere (Slava Malamud’s twitter) that Edward Snowden has just become a Russian citizen. Swore his allegiance and got a Russian passport.

    He is still of draft age and Ukraine is waiting.

    Just saying….

  151. 151.

    sab

    OT My household has five cats because stepkids were idiots and dumped on us. We also have one dog. Dogs live about 12 years. Cats live 20+.

    I am in my late sixties.  my husband is a couple of years older. Cat life expextancy is a big issue for me since I have so many cats. Want them to have safe lives ahead.

  152. 152.

    Calouste

    @Kent: news.com.au is owned by NewsCorp, in other words Rupert Murdoch. That wouldn’t really tell me though whether it is true or not, just that someone wants this out there.

  153. 153.

    C Stars

    @Yutsano: lm just not sure the fact that he’s a corrupt tax evader is really news. If the tax docs expose very obvious

    financial ties to Russia’s oligarchy, then that will be a big deal. I cannot imagine anything else that would have the potential to give his slavering sycophants in Congress pause. The tax evasion stuff they love because it shows he’s a good “businessman.”

  154. 154.

    schrodingers_cat

    @trollhattan: My Russian friend tells me that he is pretty popular in Russia. She cannot discuss the war with her relatives or friends who are still in Russia. Those who are against are mostly expatriates who no longer live in Russia.

  155. 155.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kent:

    He is still of draft age and Ukraine is waiting. 

    Just saying….

    Given how much Ukraine is kicking Russki ass, is Russki draft age still a thing?  Good luck, Eddie! 🖕

  156. 156.

    Geminid

    @sab: The Russians already got their use out of Snowden. They’ll treat him well though, to encourage other defectors with large caches of classified information.

  157. 157.

    Burnspbesq

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Can the Supreme Court find the Respect for Marriage act unconstitutional? Or does that violate separation of powers?

    Sure they can. “Which of Congress’ enumerated powers is this an exercise of?” is an old dog, but it can still hunt.

  158. 158.

    Geminid

    @Martin: WTOP radio out of DC said there are 6 B-21 bombers in production. The Air force wants a fleet of 100, and they’ll be able to carry out manned and unmanned missions. They look like big black boomerangs.

  159. 159.

    Burnspbesq

    @C Stars:

    What exactly do we think is in those tax returns?

    Bullshit, on an unimaginable scale. Plus dozens of law school exam questions. Starting with a neat one about collateral estoppel. “If the New York State jury finds The Trump Organzation committed fraud, can Trump contest a civil fraud penalty assessed by the IRS?”

  160. 160.

    Bill Arnold

    @Tom Levenson:
    Two stories there; a fall, and speculations about a root cause.
    The fall, at least, smells like truth. Not sure though. If he fell, he probably wasn’t paying attention. :-)
    Also, falls down stairs can be symbolic in Russia.

  161. 161.

    gwangung

    @Burnspbesq: Well, yeah. Common sense would say that Congress has the power to make sure marriages In one state are recognized in all states, but common sense has nothing to do with this Supreme Court. GIGO exemplified.

  163. 163.

    C Stars

    @Bill Arnold: “Two stories” ha ha.

    I have a friend who has gastric cancer and the prognosis for that particular illness is not good at all. If that were the case though I would expect we’d be seeing visible weight loss.

  164. 164.

    Roger Moore

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
     

    Can the Supreme Court find the Respect for Marriage act unconstitutional? Or does that violate separation of powers?

    By my reading of the Constitution, this should fall squarely under Congress’s powers under Article IV, Section 1:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

    The Respect for Marriage Act is saying states must give full faith and credit to marriages issued in other states, even if one state recognizes same sex (or different race) marriages while another doesn’t. That should be within the power of Congress to determine “the Effect thereof”.

    Of course, with this Supreme Court, who knows what will happen in practice. The radical right wing of the Supreme Court could make up some new doctrine that Article IV, Section 1 doesn’t mean what it clearly means, and being forced to recognize same sex marriages hurts Texas’s feelings. It would be total bullshit, but that has clearly not stopped this Supreme Court from overturning laws it doesn’t like.

  166. 166.

    scav

    @gwangung: Oh, I’d say the essential Supreme Court garbage element is embedded in the very SC mechanism.  Inputs can be G/nonG with outputs fully G.

    Not to deny the GOP’s full-court all-state press to supply Garbage Inputs.

  167. 167.

    Burnspbesq

    @Gravenstone:

    The Joint Committee on Taxation, whose remit consists mostly of reviewing and approving refunds over $2 million that the IRS proposes to grant.

  168. 168.

    Martin

    @Geminid: We wanted 120 B-2s and bought 20 of them.

    My understanding with the B-21 is that they are supposed to be quite a bit cheaper than the B-2 turned out to be.

    OTOH, it sounds like 155mm artillery is where US production really needs to be going, rather than fancy pants bombers. Not surprised to see that production of expendables is pretty shit – that’s very much in keeping with US attitudes on finance.

  169. 169.

    Bill Arnold

    @C Stars:

    What exactly do we think is in those tax returns?

    Lots of interesting suggestions here. Another (uncertain(/mid-low) probability) evidence supporting information in the “discredited Steele Dossier”.
    Though I’d go with net worth entirely unaligned with the demands of DJT’s ego, and some combination of tax fraud and banking fraud.

  170. 170.

    C Stars

    Has anyone read Elie Mystal’s A Black Guy’s Guide to the Constitution? I have it on hold at the library and am excited to pick it up tomorrow.

  171. 171.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Martin: Lebesgue integrals! Sets of measure zero! AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!!​​

    (Somewhat o/t, but I recently stumbled upon a book I’d forgotten I’d picked up sometime B.C. at The Book Thing in Baltimore: Dummit and Foote, Abstract Algebra, 2nd ed., 1999 [Wiley India Student Edition, not to be sold outside South Asia ]. ​884 pages ferchrissake! Oughta keep me preoccupied for a few weeks… after which I can start in on Roger Penrose’s The Road to Reality, about as long…)

  172. 172.

    gwangung

    @scav: I’d point it more at the entire legal system, which tends to encourage logically consistent arguments, which may or may not have any attachment to reality.

    It’s just that this Court doesn’t pay any lip service to reality….

  176. 176.

    Miss Bianca

    @Betty Cracker: that is a surprisingly good article. I can usually only take so much of The Bulwark before bailing (because even the “woke Republicans” I find tiresome after a while) but that one stayed on point for me till the end.

  178. 178.

    Kent

    @Brachiator:It amazes me that Walker is getting around 48 percent of the vote.

    After Trump, absolutely NOTHING should surprise you about the state of the American electorate.

  180. 180.

    different-church-lady

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
      Senate rules say you don’t actually have to spike the ball. You can just announce that you’re spiking it and bring the game to a standstill.

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Any male over 10 yrs old is of Russian draft age.

     

    OK I made that up, but it’s not off by a whole lot, just the wrong direction, I’ve seen reports that 60 yr olds have been drafted. vlad doesn’t care how old you are just so are you willing to die for his abject stupidity and greed.

  182. 182.

    Andrya

    @Ruckus:  putin is not going to draft Edward Snowden because it would tend to discourage any  other defectors from the US/NATO.  Although I wouldn’t put it past the regime to have leaned on Snowden “better get russian citizenship now, or it could get ugly”.  Assuming Snowden’s original motivation was conscientious, now is a very odd time to go for russian citizenship- unless he was scared.  Not only because of the war and the human rights violations, but the level of surveillance in russia now is far beyond anything the US gov’t ever did.

  183. 183.

    Gravenstone

    @Geminid: The Air force wants a fleet of 100

    They wanted over 100 B2. They barely got 20. They’ll be lucky if there’s a second production campaign beyond this initial six.

  185. 185.

    Ruckus

    @Andrya:

    I’d say the surveillance in Russia has been a lot more than here for a very, very long time – IOW longer than I’ve been alive. I believe that the ruling class in Russia knows that how they treat their people and what they expect of them is different from other countries, if in no other way, in magnitude. Russia seems to me to be a country that has changed a lot less than most any other in many, many ways. It may seem better than it did 50-75 yrs ago, but I think it’s more that the ways and means to do the surveillance have changed and gotten more difficult to notice, while still being severe. vlad depends on control, the same as his predecessors did, it just seems it would be easier to do now.

  186. 186.

    Andrya

    @Ruckus:  I’d have to say you’re right, so I’ll re-phrase- in the last couple of years the degree of surveillance/suppression of information (no independent news media) has become impossible to ignore.

  187. 187.

    David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch

    @James E Powell: ​
      Yup. That’s their motivation. They’re not voting for Walker, they’re vote against us.

    The Guardian sent a reporter to a Dump/Oz rally to interview attendees and they said they didn’t like Oz (though they didn’t say why) and they agreed with Fetterman on issues (one even said his proposal for $15 minimum wage was too low), but they all said they had vote against Fetterman because of his party affiliation.

    That was it. Nothing on policy. Nothing on values. Nothing on character. Not even anything on economics. Entire motivation was voting against team colors.

  188. 188.

    jonas

    @C Stars: ​
      It’s not so much whether or not he’s lying on his returns. He probably is, but that’s for the IRS and the DOJ to deal with. From a Congressional oversight perspective, the issue is what his assets and sources of income are and whether or not he used his office to corruptly enrich/benefit himself. His insane efforts to shield those returns from scrutiny is the smoke. The committee has about 30 days now to find the fire.

  189. 189.

    J R in WV

    @Citizen Alan: ​
     

    We know from Thomas’s dissent that he absolutely believes that states should be allowed to criminalize “deviant” sex.

    But what will he do with states use that philosophy to define interracial sex as deviant? Because most of the Christo-Fascists believe interracial relationships are exactly as unGodly as gay reationships.

  190. 190.

    Geminid

    @David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch: The phenomenon political scientists call “negative partisanship.” At this point it’s the  Republicans’ best line of attack. To make it work, they have to rely on their target audience believing in a distorted image of the Democratic party.

  191. 191.

    Mimi

    @Mike in NC: Waking up to a dead Trump on 12/25 might make me rethink my lack of belief in a higher power. Just throwing that out to the universe in case there’s anyone listening.

  193. 193.

    jayne

    @Mimi:

    You need to be careful how you phrase things like that, or he might end up falling through your roof or something.

    End result is still the same, but if it’s a literal act of God you’re not getting anything out of your insurance company.

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