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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Gay Rights Are human Rights / Some Excellent News

Some Excellent News

by John Cole|  December 8, 20222:51 pm| 144 Comments

This post is in: Gay Rights Are human Rights

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This is great:

The House on Thursday passed landmark legislation that would enshrine marriage equality in federal law, granting protections to same-sex and interracial couples and clearing the way for President Biden’s signature.

“Today, Congress sends the Respect for Marriage Act to the president’s desk, a glorious triumph of love and freedom,” said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), quoting the gay rights activist Edith Windsor in comparing marriage to magic. “This legislation honors that magic, protecting it from bigoted extremism, defending the inviolability of the same-sex and interracial marriages.”

The House had already passed an earlier version of the Respect for Marriage Act in July, but the Senate delayed its vote on the bill until after the midterm elections. Late last month, the Senate passed the bill with a bipartisan amendment to allay some Republicans’ concerns about religious liberty. The amended bill passed the Senate in a 61-36 vote, with 12 Republican senators joining Democrats in favor of it.

Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer just keep getting shit done, and I gotta say I am still shocked how much Biden and Schumer have done. Nancy is Nancy and I knew she would come through, but the other two surprise me.

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Reader Interactions

144Comments

  1. 1.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 2:56 pm

    Whoot whoot! So happy this was accomplished!

    I remember it wasn’t that long ago that Schumer was being savaged. That all seemed to change in August or so, with the passage of several important bills, such as the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPS Act. IIRC, Schumer and the Senate Dems were able to pull a fast one there on McConnell

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    December 8, 2022 at 2:56 pm

    This is good news, indeed.

    Joe seems to know a thing or three about partnering with congress. It’s uncanny TBH, but I should not be surprised. He’s wanted the job a long time, and did his homework.

  3. 3.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 8, 2022 at 2:58 pm

    Excellent news indeed!

  4. 4.

    clay

    December 8, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    Still can’t get over that 12 (twelve!) Republican senators voted for gay marriage!  I guess I’m so used to maximum obstructionism that any result like this is quite unexpected.

  5. 5.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    December 8, 2022 at 3:07 pm

    I’ve supported Biden for president all three times he’s run so I’ve been a big fan from way back even with some of his more, earlier problematic positions on stuff.  So at one level, none of this surprises me.

    But on another level, it does–I don’t think Biden 1.0 and 2.0 would have done as much and been such a great president.  Truly amazing and it again shows how Dem presidents make their history primarily because of great pols like Smash and Schumer.

  6. 6.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 8, 2022 at 3:11 pm

    My understanding is that this does not require all states to allow gay marriage, but does require all states to honor gay marriages made in other states.  Is that right?  If so, I’m pleased.  If this reactionary Supreme Court changes the gay marriage protection precedent, this law will stop the great majority of Republican fuckery.

  7. 7.

    Geoduck

    December 8, 2022 at 3:17 pm

    Good for the House on this, but on the negative side, for some reason they decided to vote to drop the COVID military vaccine mandate as part of a funding bill.

  8. 8.

    RaflW

    December 8, 2022 at 3:19 pm

    This bill was absolutely necessary, given how radical the Supreme Court Six are. That said, it is insufficient. I know, I know, “federalism!”. But the idea that the human right to marry the competent adult of one’s mutual choice is potentially again subject to the whim of simple majorities of some specific states is barbaric.

    But then, barbarism is the brand for the GOP.

  9. 9.

    Ken

    December 8, 2022 at 3:26 pm

    the Senate delayed its vote on the bill until after the midterm elections

    Portraits in courage.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    December 8, 2022 at 3:30 pm

    On the minus side of the “getting things done” ledger, apparently the lunatics demanded that the military lift its COVID vaccination requirement, basically threatening to hold up the entire military funding bill unless they got their way and, well, they got their way. Sigh.

  11. 11.

    Alison Rose

    December 8, 2022 at 3:31 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, basically. It requires the federal government to recognize the marriages, and all states to do the same for any marriages performed in other states. Which isn’t perfect but is probably the best we could get since we needed some GOPers on board. This way a couple in a red state could travel wherever to get married and not have to worry about what would happen legally when they went home.

  12. 12.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 3:32 pm

    @dmsilev: I heard there’s also a rider specifically to protect Ginni and Clarence Thomas.

  13. 13.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    @dmsilev:

    How did that happen when we currently hold majorities in both houses?

    And some reporter should ask these Republican jackasses why COVID vaccines are apparently so special when service members have had to get all sorts of vaccinations for decades

  14. 14.

    NorthLeft

    December 8, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    So about 20% of Republicans in the Senate and the House voted for same sex marriage acknowledgement through the US and this is being hailed as a bipartisan bill? 🤮

  15. 15.

    PAM Dirac

    December 8, 2022 at 3:36 pm

    @Ken:

     

    Portraits in courage.

    I take it optimistically that a number of Rs wanted to break from the MAGA bullshit, but were waiting to see if MAGA dominated the mid-terms. They got beat pretty good and hard to see how 2023 will bring any better news for the orange fart cloud and his minions. If ~10 R senators and ~30 R reps are willing to join the Ds on at least a few widely popular measures, it could be a pretty good session.

  16. 16.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 3:37 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I thought you were joking until I looked it up. It’s real. And it might be unconstitutional since it’s ex post facto.

    Lawyers of BJ, is this as bad as it seems:

    Fix the Court

    @FixTheCourt

    You can find the clearly unconstitutional provision Jane’s referring to, which would keep the identity of #SCOTUS spouses’ employers secret, on p. 2544 of the 4,408-page bill

     

    Jane Mayer

    @JaneMayerNYer

    17h

    Lawmakers have just added a provision to the National Defense Authorization Act protecting Supreme Court spouses from having to reveal any outside employer, in the name of security. If it passes, Ginni Thomas’s professional entanglements would effectively be state secrets.

  17. 17.

    Jacqueline Squid Onassis

    December 8, 2022 at 3:37 pm

    It’s so nice that my marriage, which became heresy at the same time that I transitioned, is now secure.  I’ve been worried about that ever since the fascists stole that SCOTUS seat.

  18. 18.

    RaflW

    December 8, 2022 at 3:38 pm

    @Geoduck: I hate to pick on Dems when they are, for the most part, very much on a positive roll. But the decision to fold on Covid vaccines for the military is, to me, just plain dumb. And likely messes with troop readiness, as well as sending a flare that the Dems are still wimps when it comes to these kinds of fights. Dammit.

  19. 19.

    Alison Rose

    December 8, 2022 at 3:41 pm

    @NorthLeft: Do you require a bill to have 100% support from both parties to be called bipartisan? Getting this many Republicans on board for something like this is a big deal and touting it as bipartisan is a way to push back on right wing media screeching about TEH LEFT IS MAKING UR KIDS GAY

  20. 20.

    randy khan

    December 8, 2022 at 3:44 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    My understanding is that this does not require all states to allow gay marriage, but does require all states to honor gay marriages made in other states.  Is that right?  If so, I’m pleased.  If this reactionary Supreme Court changes the gay marriage protection precedent, this law will stop the great majority of Republican fuckery.

     

    That’s right.  I think it’s about the best we could hope for with the revanchist Supreme Court in place.  The biggest worry I have is that there has traditionally been a bit of a carve-out on what marriages states have to recognize (it’s an incest proviso, so to speak, so that if one state goes insane other states don’t have to recognize, say, aunt-nephew marriages), and I could see the Furious Five twisting that into some right for states under the 10th Amendment to decide whether or not they recognize same-sex marriage.  But, you know, that’s not a problem a legislative body can solve without reconstituting the Court, which we know won’t be happening soon.

  21. 21.

    dmsilev

    December 8, 2022 at 3:44 pm

    @RaflW: It also messes with command authority in the military; the Post had a story yesterday (I think) about that. Basically, commanders told their troops “you need to do this” and now Congress is undercutting that.

  22. 22.

    Mr. Longform

    December 8, 2022 at 3:44 pm

    Part of the reason they get things done is that the Democratic party actually wants to get things done – it looks for ways to fix things, proposes legislation, implements plans – it’s almost like doing things to improve lives is more popular than passing resolutions to condemn Stuff Conservatives Find Icky.

  23. 23.

    Dan B

    December 8, 2022 at 3:49 pm

    It’s great that this bill, which 70% of Americans support, squeaked through.  And it reminds me that the country gets to vote on whether my partner and I get the same rights as other citizens. And it appears the Supreme (extreme) six will take away civil rights protections in favor of a radical version of Christianism.  Gay couples who are raising children will be especially relieved although I’m worried about red states passing laws that make it easy for these children to be removed for their protection.

  24. 24.

    mali muso

    December 8, 2022 at 3:53 pm

    As someone in an interracial marriage, I am also grateful for the passage of this bill.  And furious that it would even need to be done in this day and age.

  25. 25.

    David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch

    December 8, 2022 at 3:56 pm

    The philosopher Ludacris once said:

    “All I do is win.
    Win. Win. Win.
    No matter what.”

    That’s fit our president to a tee

  26. 26.

    gvg

    December 8, 2022 at 3:57 pm

    @dmsilev: Um actually our government has always had that ability. It’s called civilian control. We can’t have civilian control without sometimes undercutting the generals, otherwise it would be in name only. If we elect stupid politicians we will get a weak military (but we are far far from that). If we worship too many manly man fables too long, we will get authoritarianism and generals might overthrow our government for “interfering” in military matters. Well, it’s happened in other countries. Frankly, it always depends on how smart or stupid the population is. Us. Democracy is us. kind of concerning I admit.

  27. 27.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 3:57 pm

     

     

     I gotta say I am still shocked how much Biden and Schumer have done.  — John Cole

    Excellent post, John. Focus, as much as possible on positive events to help you get through this difficult personal time.

    I’m more surprised by Biden’s effectiveness. I’ve never been a fan of his, but he’s done remarkable work as president. Working with small to almost non-existent majorities in Congress, he has helped to lead the way to some some very important and positive legislation. I wish the media coverage of Biden (and Democrats, in general) better reflected reality and their surprising effectiveness despite being faced with an opposition party that is, for the most part, not a responsible governing partner.

    Schumer is also exceeding my expectations. If Democrats weren’t saddled with Manchin, their record would be even better. For reasons I can’t explain, Republicans, a few at least, seem to be willing to work with super-flake Sinema. The results are rarely, if ever, ideal, but may move things forward incrementally. Any progress in the face of the Trumpublican Party is a good thing.

    What we need now more than anything is progress on climate change and protecting voting and democracy. It seems unlikely that there will be enough Republicans willing to step up. Oh, and, of course, we really do need to get to the bottom of Hunter Biden and his amazing laptop. That may occupy the House under McCarthy, or whatever other dolt leads the party, for the next two years starting in January. I guess it’s either that or more tax cuts for the wealthy and more racism, sexism, and white supremacy. Sigh.

  28. 28.

    Shakti

    December 8, 2022 at 3:58 pm

    @clay: 12 entire Republican senators voted in favor of interracial marriage too. :/ I am so thrilled.

  29. 29.

    jonas

    December 8, 2022 at 4:02 pm

    @NorthLeft: That’s actually pretty good. I’ve seen bills that get maybe one or two Republicans votes called “bipartisan”, so this is practically the entire Congress hugging it out on the House floor singing kumbaya.

  30. 30.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 8, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The IRA really was the tipping point in how he was seen. Manchin and Sinema held up so much that even all of Schumer’s other accomplishments just felt anemic.

    Once the IRA went through and people looked at the rest of the House/Senate accomplishments without any failure stink on it, it’s really quite impressive. And that’s not even counting judges.

  31. 31.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 4:07 pm

    This reminds me of the 2010 lame duck session, when the bill allowing open military service by gay people passed. I think six Republicans voted for it. One of them was Richard Burr (NC) who I believe voted yes today.

  32. 32.

    Old School

    December 8, 2022 at 4:07 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Lawyers of BJ, is this as bad as it seems

    Not a lawyer, but it seems to apply to all federal judges and not specifically the Thomases.  It also exempts the media.

    Roth told Forbes he’s not as concerned about the NDAA’s impacts on Ginni Thomas specifically as compared with the bill overall, particularly given a carveout in the bill that still allows media reports on justices’ families without penalty. “I think that I’m going to trust the American press to get to the bottom of what her entanglements are,” Roth said, emphasizing his greater issue with the legislation is that it’s part of a “global pattern of the judiciary trying to push patently unconstitutional and illegal things on the American people.”

  33. 33.

    Cameron

    December 8, 2022 at 4:08 pm

    So George Washington could order the Continental Army to get vaccinated for smallpox, but fortunately we’ve learned since then that vaccination not only doesn’t prevent illness, but it’s a tool for libtards to inject atheist mind control chips and multisexual-promoting chemicals into America’s Christian warriors.  I feel safer already.

  34. 34.

    Burnspbesq

    December 8, 2022 at 4:12 pm

    @RaflW:

    Congress’ powers are limited. Invoking the Full Faith and Credit Clause was what it could do. There will undoubtedly be litigation (after all, Fuckface Paxton is still the Attorney General of Texas), but the challenges won’t succeed.

    Take the W and move on.

  35. 35.

    raven

    December 8, 2022 at 4:13 pm

    @Cameron: Fucker didn’t as us shit. Get in line and get hit up with the gun

  36. 36.

    RaflW

    December 8, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    @Ken: GOPs I’m sure begged for this, and if it means that it got 12 R votes because they couldn’t get attacked for it from the right before the election, then OK. Very minor sausage-making.

    I think the key is, those 12 need to be positively reminded going forward that they bucked their party on LGBTQ rights and they should keep at it. Being anti-gay is a loser. And the sooner we can get more Rs to understand that their correlated anti-trans attacks are alienating and toxic, the better.

  37. 37.

    eclare

    December 8, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    Great day!  And by coincidence, the sun just came out here for the first time in days.

  38. 38.

    Cameron

    December 8, 2022 at 4:18 pm

    @raven: But now  the defenders of America’s freedom won’t be coerced into taking fetus-juice generated chemicals alleged to prevent the non-existent Chinese virus!  America, fuck yeah!

  39. 39.

    Jeffro

    December 8, 2022 at 4:18 pm

    It was funny, perhaps a little grimly, that the passage of this legislation reduced one wingnut Congresswoman to actual tears.

    Ted Lieu said it best on Twitter – something like “You know how people sometimes shed tears of joy?  This woman was shedding actual tears of hate.”

    More like this plz Dems!

  40. 40.

    Ohio Mom

    December 8, 2022 at 4:19 pm

    As I never tire of pointing out, my retiring Republican Senator, Rob Portman (to be replaced by JD Vance), voted for this because he has a gay son.

    It was a typical Republican epiphany, empathy gained because of something that happened to him. If his son was straight, who knows if he would have voted yes.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    December 8, 2022 at 4:23 pm

    The amended bill passed the Senate in a 61-36 vote, with 12 Republican senators joining Democrats in favor of it.

    Republican support for the bill declined. Some Republicans insist that “religious freedom” means the right to harm gay people.

    From Business Insider.

    The Respect for Marriage Act passed the House for the second time on Thursday, clearing the chamber by a 258-169 margin. It now heads to President Joe Biden’s desk, where it’s set to be signed into law.

    39 House Republicans voted for the bill, less than the 47 who voted for the original version of the bill in July.

    Rep. Burgess Owens of Utah voted “present.” Four Republicans did not vote on the measure.

    Dozens of House Republicans, representing a broad and diverse swath of the conference, supported the bill when it first passed the chamber in July. Over the last four months, a bipartisan group of senators worked to amend the bill to ensure protections for religious liberties, and ultimately 12 Republican senators supported a new version of the legislation.

    Republican Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, the chairman of the House Freedom Caucus, was also among the dozens of House Republicans who voted for the bill in July.

    But since then, the hardline conservative caucus has urged Republicans to vote against the bill, and Perry has expressed regret for his July vote.

    “I calculated incorrectly,” Perry told Tony Perkins, the leader of the socially conservative Family Research Council, in a November interview. He explained that his vote was merely about protecting interracial marriage and claimed that the Respect for Marriage Act “literally destroys religious freedom.”

    On Tuesday, Perry voted against the amended bill.

  42. 42.

    RaflW

    December 8, 2022 at 4:24 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    I wish the media coverage of Biden (and Democrats, in general) better reflected reality and their surprising effectiveness despite being faced with an opposition party that is, for the most part, not a responsible governing partner.

    This brief passage I think meshes up quite well with the analysis that Biden and Dems basically had the best (defensive) midterm election since, I think it was, FDR’s time.
    But the press is still ‘searching’ for a narrative about why that was, and gosh if it isn’t thought to be about Trump’s lingering effects & candidate quality (both of which mattered, as did slashing Roe to bits). They can’t admit that Biden is successful.

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 8, 2022 at 4:24 pm

    @Jeffro: join me in laughing at Vicky Hartzler

    Ritchie Torres @RitchieTorres
    As I presided over the debate for the Respect for Marriage Act, I had to remind Republicans like Vicky Hartzler their time for debate expired.

    For too long, Republicans have tried to stop a full vision of marriage equality in America.

    Their time has expired.

  44. 44.

    Jeffro

    December 8, 2022 at 4:26 pm

    @Jeffro: (deleted – JFL beat me to it)

  45. 45.

    Jeffro

    December 8, 2022 at 4:28 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: right there with you!

    Are they on the unpopular side of EVERY issue?  I think they are.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    @Old School:

    That’s a relief then? At least journalists still have access to that info

  47. 47.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 8, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    @TriassicSands: I know you’re joking about the Hunter Biden laptop, but lost in other news recently was the fact that Andriy Derkach, Rudy’s good pal in Ukraine, russian agent, and one of the people working overtime to get the Hunter Biden laptop story into the media and keep it there, was indicted (in the US) for fraud and money laundering. That press release is worth reading.

  48. 48.

    Wapiti

    December 8, 2022 at 4:32 pm

    @Ohio Mom: And who didn’t vote for it? Ted “give my family the privacy I will happily deny to all of you peasants” Cruz.

  49. 49.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 4:33 pm

    @RaflW:

    But the press is still ‘searching’ for a narrative about why that was, and gosh if it isn’t thought to be about Trump’s lingering effects & candidate quality (both of which mattered, as did slashing Roe to bits). They can’t admit that Biden is successful.

    Well, in their defense, Biden’s approval numbers are still in the low forties–the public do not seem to regard him as personally successful. The Democrats got pulverized in 2010 with better approval numbers for Obama. They also got annihilated in 1994 with better approval numbers for Bill Clinton. So I don’t think that’s it.

  50. 50.

    The Moar You Know

    December 8, 2022 at 4:36 pm

    Let’s see if Clarence Thomas has the guts to invalidate his own marriage.

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 8, 2022 at 4:36 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    It was a typical Republican epiphany, empathy gained because of something that happened to him. If his son was straight, who knows if he would have voted yes.

    I remember the glowing headlines and soft-focus photo-ops he got when he voted for (or against?) I forget which bill because his son had come out to him, and then it was revealed that his son had come out to him IIRC two years earlier, and he had cast quite a few anti-gay votes in that time.

    This was echoed when it was in I forget which book that he had been hot and bother to impeach trump after 1/6, saying there would twenty Republican votes for it. When the time came, the retiring Senator Portman voted to acquit. Of course.

  52. 52.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 4:40 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    That was absolutely terrible acting from Hartzler

  53. 53.

    The Moar You Know

    December 8, 2022 at 4:43 pm

    Biden has not surprised me one bit.

    Schumer has.  A lot.  He had the hardest and shittiest job of them all (would you want to have to cater to the manifold whims of Manchin and Sinema?) and has won almost every single time.

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    December 8, 2022 at 4:44 pm

    Fox is still at it, late into the day: “Bad Deal: White House not going to apologize for releasing ‘Merchant of Death’ as critics rail against swap”

    Even a remotely neutral “news” organization would have something like “White House takes criticism in trading basketball star for arms dealer”.  But with Fox, they lead off with excellent signaling (‘Bad Deal’) and follow up by intimating that this clown was basically Lex Luthor (‘Merchant of Death’).  An “Untruth Sandwich”.

    *side note: if an arms dealer is a ‘Merchant of Death’…what does that make America’s hardworking gun store owners?

  55. 55.

    dmsilev

    December 8, 2022 at 4:45 pm

    Also good news, just breaking from the Post:

    Prosecutors have urged a federal judge to hold Donald Trump’s office in contempt of court for failing to fully comply with a May subpoena to return all classified documents in his possession, according to people familiar with the matter — a sign of how contentious the private talks have become over whether the former president still holds any secret papers.

    In recent days, Justice Department lawyers have asked U.S. District Court Judge Beryl A. Howell to hold Trump’s office in contempt, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sealed court proceedings. But the judge has not yet held a hearing or ruled on the request, they said.

    The request came after months of mounting frustration from the Justice Department with Trump’s team — frustration that spiked in June after the former president’s lawyers provided assurances that a diligent search had been conducted for classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago Club and residence. But the FBI amassed evidence suggesting — and later confirmed through a court-authorized search — that many more remained.

    Who knows if it will end up amounting to anything, but if nothing else will further piss him off.

  56. 56.

    Splitting Image

    December 8, 2022 at 4:45 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I remember it wasn’t that long ago that Schumer was being savaged. That all seemed to change in August or so, with the passage of several important bills, such as the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPS Act. IIRC, Schumer and the Senate Dems were able to pull a fast one there on McConnell

    Harry Reid also had a reputation as an ineffective leader for his first few years as Senate leader, until some accomplishments began rolling in. The Senate is a rats’ nest of prima donnas at the best of times, and it takes awhile to learn how to massage everyone’s egos and figure out how to do things.

    Schumer is doing fine.

  57. 57.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 4:50 pm

    @Dan B:

    But, Dan, the SCOTUS is making it clear that the most purely American value of all is the ability of Christian theocrats to impose their beliefs on everyone.

    The other day an OP-Ed columnist wrote — “No one wants to live in a country like that.”

    I don’t know why people make such ridiculously false statements so often. Millions of Americans — 74 million voted for TFG in 2020 — definitely want to live in a country like that, or don’t care enough about others as human beings to afford them the same rights and protections everyone should have.

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 4:53 pm

    @Jeffro: Wait, I thought they thought Russian arms dealers were good guys!

  59. 59.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 4:55 pm

    @Splitting Image: I remember when Reid was THE whipping boy for Democratic Congressional fecklessness in the face of Dubya’s regime.

  60. 60.

    Jay C

    December 8, 2022 at 4:58 pm

    @Jeffro:

    The big problem in the country is that most Republicans ARE on the “unpopular side of every issue” when measured against the opinions of the majority of Americans – but said issues* are typically fanatically popular with the voter base they need to get nominated/elected. and that’s not likely to change.

     

    *mostly prejudicial hates wrapped in self-righteous religiosity, but who’s counting?

  61. 61.

    Dan B

    December 8, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    @Brachiator: Religious liberty is code for right wing Christianism.  This hypocrisy needs to be called out.  60% of churches in metro Seattle are welcoming of LGBTQ people.  They don’t need religious liberty.  They need protection of their cherished members FROM right wing homophobes hiding behind their so called religious dogma.

  62. 62.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    @dmsilev:

    This is the office at MAL he set up last year, right? An aunt by marriage of mine was visiting my grandmother early last year. Said aunt is a conservative fundie who left a church because the new minister was a woman. Absolutely loved TFG despite all of his un-Christlike behavior/actions.

    My grandmother, as the aunt was leaving out of the front door, heard my aunt mention excitedly to my uncle about Trump establishing an office in MAL.

    Recently? “I liked his policies but…”

  63. 63.

    Ohio Mom

    December 8, 2022 at 5:02 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: You have a good memory, you jogged mine. I’d forgotten about Portman’s anti-gay votes in the lag time between finding out about his son and when he finally embraced gay rights. I do remember how celebrated he was for being so brave as to confess his son was gay.

    Portman always voted with his party, which is why I’m able to remind myself that while Vance will be awful, he won’t be any worse than Portman. Now if god forbid we lose Sherrod Brown in two years, that will be a giant step backwards.

  64. 64.

    Dan B

    December 8, 2022 at 5:02 pm

    @Wapiti: Ted Cruz whose bisexual daughter just stabbed herself repeatedly last night voted against Marriage Equality?

    I’m Shocked!!!

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 8, 2022 at 5:02 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: me, too. And various points from 2006 (“Impeachment is off the table”) onward when Nancy Pelosi was castigated as a sell-out

    Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer just keep getting shit done, and I gotta say I am still shocked how much Biden and Schumer have done.

    Surprised Cole doesn’t mention his own senior Senator. I haven’t followed Manchin’s “evolution” on this issue (or Romney’s, for that matter), but I’m guessing 2010 Manchin wouldn’t have voted for this bill. Pretty sure ol’ Bobby Byrd wouldn’t have.

    I said during the general campaign of 2020, when others were gleefully speculating as to whether “we” would add 11 or 15 Justices to the USSC that Biden would be as progressive as Manchin and a few others (Sinema wasn’t even on my radar) would allow him to be

  66. 66.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:05 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Exactly! I noticed people’s attitudes seem to shift around that time

    @Splitting Image:

    Based on Reid’s history, I suspect Schumer will be remembered the same way

  67. 67.

    scav

    December 8, 2022 at 5:08 pm

    @Dan B: Or rather, those welcoming churches do need the religious liberty to freely embrace, welcome and honor the emotional commitments of their LGBTQ members as per their tenets.  Freedom to as well as freedom from.

  68. 68.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:08 pm

    @Dan B:

    Imagine having that man as a father. I absolutely believe Cruz’s callous bigotry had something to do with it

  69. 69.

    Betty

    December 8, 2022 at 5:11 pm

    @Ohio Mom: Compare that to PA Congressman Glenn Thompson who attended his gay son’s wedding and soon after voted no. Has now voted no twice.

  70. 70.

    RaflW

    December 8, 2022 at 5:11 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: I think the election we just had indicts the whole presidential approval rating polling process. It can’t find the electoral mood with both hands.

    I’m increasingly of the persuasion that the poll interprets the left in this country ‘disapproving’ of Biden and Dems for being too centrist as equal to the right disapproving of him because they’re on the right wing. The polls fail to determine why they say they are dissatisfied about his performance.

  71. 71.

    Elizabelle

    December 8, 2022 at 5:11 pm

    I wonder if this strike might persuade some FTF NYTimes readers that they can live without that paper, just fine.

    Red wave!

  72. 72.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:14 pm

    As commenter Scout211 posted below:

    Trump does not plan to appeal the 11th circuit ruling

    The oaf correctly figured there was no point

  73. 73.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:15 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    Now if god forbid we lose Sherrod Brown in two years, that will be a giant step backwards.

    That would really suck

  74. 74.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 5:16 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sarah Kendzior literally accused Nancy Pelosi of being a paid Russian agent hellbent on protecting Donald Trump.

  75. 75.

    sukabi

    December 8, 2022 at 5:26 pm

    @Geoduck: think the military can set force readiness requirements without the congressional mandate….there are mandatory vaccinations just for being in the service and more mandatory vaccinations depending on which part of the world you will be deployed to…

  76. 76.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 5:27 pm

    @RaflW: It does seem as if, ever since some point early in the Obama administration, presidential job approval questions have settled down to these very static things where most of the response is just as if they had asked “Are you a member of the President’s party?”

  77. 77.

    sukabi

    December 8, 2022 at 5:27 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: that deserves one of Nancy’s sassy claps.

  78. 78.

    Ohio Mom

    December 8, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    @Betty: Yikes, wonder what holiday diners are like in that family. If the son and his husband even keep in touch.

    I was thinking of how Nancy Regan came to support stem cell research when Ronnie got Alzheimer’s. And I know there are other examples of Republicans changing course when something happened to them or their families, I just can’t remember any examples at the moment.

  79. 79.

    sukabi

    December 8, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    @RaflW: thinking the pollsters have just decided to poll NY and DC journalists and tv yappers.

  80. 80.

    UncleEbeneezer

    December 8, 2022 at 5:32 pm

    @dmsilev: Legal AF podcast had a good discussion about this including why FBI can’t just go and search all of Trump’s residences and how they think the judge will proceed.

  81. 81.

    Skepticat

    December 8, 2022 at 5:34 pm

    @Shakti:

    But not McConnell, who is in an interracial marriage?

  82. 82.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 8, 2022 at 5:35 pm

    @dmsilev: ​
     

    On the minus side of the “getting things done” ledger, apparently the lunatics demanded that the military lift its COVID vaccination requirement, basically threatening to hold up the entire military funding bill unless they got their way and, well, they got their way. Sigh.

    That’s especially too bad because it was keeping a lot of people out of the military that we should really want to keep out of the military.

    And it would have been great IMHO to let them hold up the bill a bit, and dump on the Republicans as valuing their silly pet cause more than they value the U.S. military.

  83. 83.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:36 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    She’s also called Garland a “mafia state enabler”. This thread of hers is a real trip:

    Sarah Kendzior

    @sarahkendzior

    If you critique Garland on Twitter, you will be harassed by a troll bot farm reciting identical talking points. Their latest talking point is that Merrick Garland heroically investigated the Oklahoma City bombing.

    This is a myth.

  84. 84.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 5:39 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    As commenter Scout211 posted below:

    Trump does not plan to appeal the 11th circuit ruling

    The oaf correctly figured there was no point

    Or more likely he couldn’t find any attorneys willing to embarrass and debase themselves with such an appeal.

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 8, 2022 at 5:40 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    It was a typical Republican epiphany, empathy gained because of something that happened to him. If his son was straight, who knows if he would have voted yes.

    It’s mindboggling how specific their epiphanies are: there’s never any carry-over to anything similar or analogous or related: just exactly this one thing.  No empathy for anyone in even slightly different straits.

  86. 86.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 8, 2022 at 5:42 pm

    Which goes to show you how bad Cruz is. Even when someone close to him would be affected, he votes no

  87. 87.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    December 8, 2022 at 5:44 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: It will keep some of those people out of the military in the future. The GOP is getting more anti-vax in general. So you will have right-wingers getting kicked out for other routine vaccinations, like yellow fever, etc.

  88. 88.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:44 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And then on top of it, they’re still not very consistent as others noted above. Portman’s son had come out to him years earlier and in that time he had still cast anti-LGBTQ+ votes. These people are pure political animals in every negative sense of that term

  89. 89.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 8, 2022 at 5:46 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    Wait, I thought they thought Russian arms dealers were good guys!

    It’s so hard to keep up!

    None of these issues mean anything to them, of course, except as a cudgel to use on us Dems. So they’ll take whatever stance works best on that today. Not exactly Cleek’s Law, but in that general zone.

  90. 90.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 5:47 pm

    @Kent:

    Or more likely he couldn’t find any attorneys willing to embarrass and debase themselves with such an appeal.

    You might have a point there lol. I would’ve thought he would’ve had more trouble before now, but maybe there was a limit

  91. 91.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 5:52 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    Sadly, so far, Schumer hasn’t “won” on some of the most important issues and Manchin and Sinema are what stood in the way.

    Imagine what could be accomplished if Manchin and Sinema didn’t matter. None of that is Schumer’s fault (it’s on the shoulders of the American electorate), but the outstanding issue of protecting democracy requires the end of the filibuster. Neither Manchin nor Sinema has budged on that issue. Fixing the SCOTUS is also stalled.

    Again, not Schumer’s fault. No one could make the narcissists Manchin or Sinema help on those critical issues.

    Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer all deserve praise and credit for what has been accomplished, which has been surprising.

  92. 92.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 6:00 pm

    @TriassicSands: There was some justice to the fact that Manchin couldn’t drum up enough Dem support for his fast-track oil drilling and pipeline measure.

    I’m willing to bet he could have easily gotten it tucked into any of half a dozen Democratic priority pieces of legislation that he blocked.  So a bit of karma right there.

  93. 93.

    Martin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:02 pm

    Let’s be clear on something here. This wouldn’t have happened if the judges the GOP appointed to the Supreme Court weren’t undermining the GOPs ability to win elections. Without that they’d never have gotten to 60 in the Senate, even though there was *always* 10 votes in the GOP, but those votes weren’t available until the GOP internalized a threat to their power.

    It remains the case that the only way to 60 in the Senate is a credible threat against the GOP – not against the country, but against the GOP. That’s why the filibuster remaining is so problematic.

  94. 94.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 6:08 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Thank you for the link. I’m always so shocked when anyone in the Trump/Giuliani orbit is indicted or convicted. Actually, I’m more shocked that so many of them are not in prison. Including the POS himself.

    That may be the most amazing thing about the TFG phenomenon — that so many of his most avid worshippers are so completely unaware of so many of the details about his life, business career, and criminal behavior. Of course, they are scrupulously avoiding being exposed to anything that would clue them in, but one really has to limit one’s exposure to avoid all mention of the “real” Trump.

    Naturally, they would say the same thing about me — I don’t understand how important Hunter Biden and his infamous laptop are, because I must be avoiding the truth, which can be found on reliable sources like QAnon and other rock solid sources. But I’m not at all averse to reading explanations of why Hunter Biden and his dad are the most corrupt human beings ever to exist and how they are in league with — insert infinite list of diabolical people, countries, and other entities.

    Perhaps, the most revealing thing I’ve ever seen about this issue was when the Daily Show’s Jordan Klepper attended a Trump rally and did everything humanly possible to expose the cult members to reality. He failed miserably. No matter what he did or said or showed them, they all had fantastical explanations to deflect what they were seeing and hearing. Maybe the clip was edited in such a way to avoid showing people who actually got the message, but my own experience with Trumpsters fits perfectly with Klepper’s video.

  95. 95.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 6:10 pm

    @Martin: To put it another way….

    The GOP doesn’t need 60 votes to implement any of its priority agenda.

    Tax cuts?  Only 50 votes needed through reconciliation

    Judges?  only 50 votes needed, even for SCOTUS

    Deregulation?  Mostly happens at the executive branch level not Congress, but when they take office they can also repeal all recent Dem regulation through the Congressional Review Act that only requires 50 votes and can’t be filibustered.  And most big Democratic regulatory changes happen near the end of an administration’s term because the notice and comment rulemaking process for major regulations basically takes that long.

    The last time the GOP actually tried to do something major that was subject to filibuster was Bush’s attempt to privatize social security and that was a LONG time ago.

    So in the 21st century, the filibuster is only an obstacle to Democratic initiatives, it doesn’t really affect the GOPs ability to rule and do what they want when they have power.

  96. 96.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 6:11 pm

    @TriassicSands: I don’t think Manchin and Sinema are the only members of the Senate Democratic Caucus who oppose eliminating the filibuster rule generally. Even if we had a 54-46 majority I don’t think we would get more than limited carve-outs to the 60 vote requirement.

    In the short term this doesn’t really matter anyway. The House is unlikely to pass any good legislation until the Congress that will start in January, 2025. It’s possible House Democrats can get a bill or two passed by means of a petition to discharge, but if they do it will likely be something that can get 9 Republican votes in the Senate.

  97. 97.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 8, 2022 at 6:13 pm

    @Martin: ​
     

    This wouldn’t have happened if the judges the GOP appointed to the Supreme Court weren’t undermining the GOPs ability to win elections.

    Makes me think of 2010 and the ACA: the Dems knew they’d probably lose a bunch of seats on account of having passed the ACA, but they’d decided it was worth the risk.

    In 2022, the GOP finally reaped the benefits of having gotten all those right-wingers on the Supreme Court, but rather than thinking, “we achieved this major goal we’ve been working towards for 40 years, whatever happens at the polls, it’s worth it,” they’re seriously butthurt about the election outcome.

    They’re both sore losers and sore winners.

  98. 98.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 6:13 pm

    @Kent: It’s also a fast track electric grid infrastrucure measure. That doesn’t neccesarily mean it should be passed, but it’s worth keeping in mind.

  99. 99.

    Splitting Image

    December 8, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    @Martin:

    Let’s be clear on something here. This wouldn’t have happened if the judges the GOP appointed to the Supreme Court weren’t undermining the GOPs ability to win elections. Without that they’d never have gotten to 60 in the Senate, even though there was *always* 10 votes in the GOP, but those votes weren’t available until the GOP internalized a threat to their power.

    It remains the case that the only way to 60 in the Senate is a credible threat against the GOP – not against the country, but against the GOP. That’s why the filibuster remaining is so problematic.

    Good point. In the heady days when the Republicans imagined a “red wave”, the GOP openly talked about banning abortion nationally, abolishing Medicare and Social Security, and new impeachment hearings on every day ending in Y. It was going to be culture wars all the way down.

    What a difference a loss at the polls makes. Most of the Republicans who voted to support marriage equality would have voted against it if they had won both houses.

  100. 100.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 6:16 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    They can’t handle the idea that most people actually don’t like them or their policies and faced consequences for them anymore

  101. 101.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 6:18 pm

    @RaflW:  They can’t admit that Biden is successful.

    I eagerly await the day that someone in the news (not opinion) section of the MSM finally gets that message. Some opinion columnists are aware that Biden, et al. have been remarkably successful, but apparently reporters are not permitted to read opinion columns since that might to temper their bothsiderism.

    Increasingly, I notice that people like DeSantis are being referred to as “mainstream” Republicans, as though that were synonymous with being “moderate.” By any reasonable (democratic) standard, DeSantis is an extremist who is willing to lie, distort, bully, and resort to an endless array of phony culture war tactics. He may be a “mainstream” Republican today, but that is not anything like being a “moderate,” or being a freedom-respecting supporter of free and fair elections and democracy.

  102. 102.

    piratedan

    December 8, 2022 at 6:21 pm

    one additional benefit, is that I believe that there’s a load of Government middle management positions that have been held up by GOP intransigence in getting people put into place, moving to 51 Senators puts all that BS in its place because those people are no longer held in limbo.

  103. 103.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 6:22 pm

    @Splitting Image:

    the GOP openly talked about banning abortion nationally, abolishing Medicare and Social Security, and new impeachment hearings on every day ending in Y. It was going to be culture wars all the way down.

    We’re probably still going to get those impeachment hearings, but at least none of the other stuff

  104. 104.

    Martin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:23 pm

    Attacks on power substations today in South Carolina, Oregon, and Washington. Sounds like there was online calls to attack the grid. They’re getting closer to blaming this on right wing accelerationists.

  105. 105.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 6:26 pm

    @Geminid:

    I  agree about how many oppose ending the filibuster, but Manchin and Sinema both gave mindless explanations for their opposition and provided cover for others. Had those two been amenable, the others might have been brought around. We’ll never know.

  106. 106.

    Martin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:27 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I wouldn’t count on that. Looking at who the GOP need to get McCarthy elected speaker, there are going to be some really ugly concessions handed out to folks like MTG and Paul Gosar.

    Note that the Senate is responding to the overreach of USSC, but the House really isn’t. They’re still much more on board with Trumpism still, and I’ll believe moderate House Republicans are on board with quelling this when I see it.

  107. 107.

    J R in WV

    December 8, 2022 at 6:27 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    We do not have a majority in the  Senate right now.

    You need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster,  also, too!

  108. 108.

    TriassicSands

    December 8, 2022 at 6:29 pm

    @Kent:  So a bit of karma right there.

    No one, other than (perhaps, Sinema and) the entire Republican Party is more deserving.

  109. 109.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    December 8, 2022 at 6:29 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I believe it was TFG’s dinner date Nick Fuentes who said the solution to that is to impose a dictatorship and MAKE people like the policies.

  110. 110.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 6:31 pm

    @Martin:

    What kind of concessions? And frankly, why don’t MTG and Gosar see the midterm results as a major rejection of their politics by the electorate?

  111. 111.

    Martin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:35 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Because they’re culture warriors, not party leadership. Their view is that it’s okay if the GOP lose elections, provided they can muster the necessarily violence. They’re a fringe part of the party, but McCarthy’s majority is tight enough that he needs the fringe part of the party.

    Mind you, he could decide to run the House from a moderate position and convince Dems to not fuck things up so that he doesn’t need MTG to win speaker, but he’s both too much of a coward to even try that and GOP voters won’t have it. GOP voters oppose all bipartisan legislation simply because it’s bipartisan.

  112. 112.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 8, 2022 at 6:37 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Because MTG is a moron and Gosar has brain damage.

  113. 113.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 6:39 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Some of those radicals think Republicans failed because they watered down their radical message. These are typically from deep red districts though.

  114. 114.

    J R in WV

    December 8, 2022 at 6:42 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m certain Bob Byrd would have supported this bill.

    While Byrd was pretty  conservative in the beginning of his decades in the Senate,  by the end he had grown to be pretty liberal Democratic over all.

  115. 115.

    Mai Naem mobile

    December 8, 2022 at 6:42 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: i think they assume because they’re privileged rich powerful people this stuff isn’t going to affect them or their kids. Their gay kids can always go live in blue states. Their teenager with an unwanted pregnancy can always go to a blue state or abroad to get an abortion. Their seriously/chronically  ill relative can always  go to a blue state and work with the health care laws there.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 6:44 pm

    @TriassicSands: I don’t think you could have brought John Tester or Angus King around. Probably not Mark Warner either.

  117. 117.

    HinTN

    December 8, 2022 at 6:44 pm

    @sukabi: And these days just about every uniform service member is subject to deployment. Where the requirement was really important was in civilian service and that already got quashed.

  118. 118.

    Jackie

    December 8, 2022 at 6:47 pm

    @Brachiator: I held my nose and left a message for Dan Newhouse, thanking him for voting for the Respect for Marriage Act. I bitch at him often, so felt the need to recognize when he does the correct (as opposed to the *right*) thing.

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 8, 2022 at 6:50 pm

    @Geminid: as I recall, King said he was willing to accept a carve-out for voting rights, and there were a lot of other similar hedges/nuances on filibuster from (again, IIRC) Dianne Feinstein to Chris Coons. Hickenlooper, Kelly and Carper I suspect would also land somewhere short of full repeal. Claire McCaskill would always say there weren’t forty votes for elimination

  120. 120.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 6:51 pm

    @Martin: McCarthy can afford 5 defections. I think his allies will strongarm enough of the radicals that he’ll get to 218 votes. Although maybe McCarthy will have to fall on his sword to make way for Scalise. Either way, I expect the Republicans will elect a Speaker the first day of the new Congress.

  121. 121.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:53 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: That’s assuming Congress doesn’t simply mandate that they lift all the vaccination requirements.

  122. 122.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 8, 2022 at 6:58 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: To kill or exile anyone who doesn’t like the policies.

    Many conservatives are still fulminating about the 1965 immigration reforms that, they say, corrupted the US with dangerous foreign elements without the consent of native white America–and that the only reason Democrats ever win elections is this dirty trick they pulled to change the electorate. If they had their way, ethnic cleansing would be the order.

  123. 123.

    Elizabelle

    December 8, 2022 at 7:00 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:  Oh come on.  Enough.

  124. 124.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 8, 2022 at 7:08 pm

    @Martin:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    @Geminid:

    Those explanations make sense

  125. 125.

    Citizen Alan

    December 8, 2022 at 7:15 pm

    @Geminid: Are there 5 Republicans in the House who might put their constituencies ahead of party loyalty? I don’t think Jim Jeffords would have switched and given the Senate to the Dems had the conservatives not tried to outright bully him into going along. I could easily see a few Republicans who barely won their blue districts getting tired real fast of MTG calling them “groomers” to their faces.

  126. 126.

    eachother

    December 8, 2022 at 7:27 pm

    Interracial Marriage.  So 19th century.

    Ginni.  Talk to your husband.  Don’t let him annul his own marriage.

    Though, maybe Thomas has a personal motive.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    December 8, 2022 at 7:30 pm

    @Geoduck:

    I think the Covid ship has sailed. Not technically, Covid still kills of course but politically. A portion of our voters/citizens has decided that they are going to oppose realism and put abject stupidity in it’s place. Either that or they have single digit IQs. It could go either way.

  128. 128.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2022 at 7:31 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Don Bacon (NE) said he would. Dan Newhouse (WA) and David Valadeo ( CA) already survived Impeaching Trump so they might be willing too. But I think this route would only be taken if the Republicans deadlocked over multiple votes and I don’t think that will happen. It’s in the interests of potential defectors and the rest of their caucus to elect a Speaker without dragging it out. So like I said above, I expect them to elect a Speaker the first day.

  129. 129.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 7:31 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):We’re probably still going to get those impeachment hearings, but at least none of the other stuff

    They’ll have hearings, but I question whether they will even have an impeachment vote unless they really have the goods on Biden.  A real and clear case not something made-up like Hunter Biden’s laptop.

    That is because they have such as slim majority that depends on first-termers in blue districts who will be up for re-election in less than 2 years.  I don’t see them having enough votes to muster a purely political impeachment in the House.  That would require basically zero defections.

  130. 130.

    Ruckus

    December 8, 2022 at 7:32 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    You are discussing rethuglicans using logic. That never works because one thing they seem to despise more than anything it logic.

  131. 131.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 7:33 pm

    @Ruckus:I think the Covid ship has sailed. Not technically, Covid still kills of course but politically. A portion of our voters/citizens has decided that they are going to oppose realism and put abject stupidity in it’s place. Either that or they have single digit IQs. It could go either way.

    And honestly, mandatory military COVID vaccinations is probably one of the most harmless “wins” that the Biden Administration could give to the GOP.  The vast majority of troops are still going to be vaccinated and young healthy people are not at much risk of COVID anymore.

    It is certainly better than something like cutting back environmental regulations or aid to Ukraine.

  132. 132.

    cain

    December 8, 2022 at 7:38 pm

    @Ruckus: I think nature will take care of them. Naturally. I for one will be wearing a mask. There is some kind of cough epidemic going on and the health network is stressed.

    I’m ok wearing a mask now.

  133. 133.

    Miss Bianca

    December 8, 2022 at 7:39 pm

    @Geminid:

    Some of those radicals think Republicans failed because they watered down their radical message. These are typically from deep red districts though.

    Ha ha ha, tell that to Colorado Republicans! Statewide trending bright, bright blue, so they’re busy censuring their own state party leaders for not being radical enough. “Colorado isn’t a blue state, it’s a red state!” they wail, in the teeth of all available evidence.

    Yeah, try telling Lauren Boebert that she came within a whisker of losing her seat because *she* wasn’t radical *enough*. I dunno, tho’, she might be dumb enough to believe it.

  134. 134.

    cain

    December 8, 2022 at 7:40 pm

    @Kent:

    That is because they have such as slim majority that depends on first-termers in blue districts who will be up for re-election in less than 2 years.  I don’t see them having enough votes to muster a purely political impeachment in the House.  That would require basically zero defections

    It could also look really tone deaf especially when Trump is going to get it in the shorts hard and there will be an ever increasing dragnet as more politicians gets pulled in.

    Even with that – you know the House is not going to pass anything but more tax cuts – they don’t have any ideas. It’ll just be culture war shit and nothing that actually helps. I think secretly they want the economy to fail so they can do nothing.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 8, 2022 at 7:51 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): She blocked me on Twitter for asking the source for one of her claims.  Stonekettle asked me why I was attacking her and blocked me too.  Cultish.

  136. 136.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 7:52 pm

    @cain:Even with that – you know the House is not going to pass anything but more tax cuts – they don’t have any ideas. It’ll just be culture war shit and nothing that actually helps. I think secretly they want the economy to fail so they can do nothing.

    Oh, they have lots of ideas.

    There will be some sort of anti-woke anti CRT law for public schools
    Some sort of anti-trans law
    LGBT censorship in school libraries
    Some sort of statutory abortion ban
    Some sort of law to let religious bigots discriminate against anyone LGBT
    Some sort of anti-vax and anti-mask COVID measure
    Some sort of anti-ANTIFA legislation
    Repeals of the ACA as well as Social Security and Medicare.

    And I’m sure I’m missing a bunch of the GOP legislative agenda.

  137. 137.

    PAM Dirac

    December 8, 2022 at 7:57 pm

    @cain:

     

    It could also look really tone deaf especially when Trump is going to get it in the shorts hard and there will be an ever increasing dragnet as more politicians gets pulled in.

    Yes, I don’t think the speaker vote at the beginning of the session is the most interesting vote, I think the situation in June or September will be more interesting. I think the marriage bill vote was a sign that the marginally sane (and in purple or blue districts) part of the R house is much less afraid of MAGA after the midterms. I think 2023 will be a lot worse for the orange fart cloud and as his troubles mount, I suspect Rs will be more and more willing to tell the MAGAs to go to hell. I don’t think the session will be filled with major D victories, but it could very well be more productive than most expect.

  138. 138.

    Martin

    December 8, 2022 at 8:07 pm

    @Kent: The issue with the vaccine mandate is the national guard. If there is a variant that sends us back to where we were in late 2020, it’s the national guard we’re going to need to hold things together. That’s who were running the pop-up medical facilities.

    Having them not being vaccinated means that the National Guard isn’t prepared to do the job of the National Guard. Biden should hold the line. Let the GOP impale themselves because the ‘founders wouldn’t support a vaccine mandate’ – something one of our founders did prior even to the founding of this country.

  139. 139.

    Kent

    December 8, 2022 at 8:31 pm

    @Martin: @Kent: The issue with the vaccine mandate is the national guard. If there is a variant that sends us back to where we were in late 2020, it’s the national guard we’re going to need to hold things together. That’s who were running the pop-up medical facilities.

    Having them not being vaccinated means that the National Guard isn’t prepared to do the job of the National Guard. Biden should hold the line. Let the GOP impale themselves because the ‘founders wouldn’t support a vaccine mandate’ – something one of our founders did prior even to the founding of this country.

    I’m not saying there are ZERO issues with military vaccines.  Just that it isn’t a big one in comparison.

    If we have another monster pandemic outbreak then I think we will have bigger issues than whether some national guard troopers have been vaccinated.

    And if we are in another enormous national emergency I expect the some sort of presidential emergency declaration can set aside statutes anyway.

  140. 140.

    GibberJack

    December 8, 2022 at 9:13 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: As I said in an earlier thread, the question whether he would sacrifice his daughter or his political career is a no-brainer.

    His daughter is just gonna have to bleed out for white christian conservative freedumb. Dad’s got his senate seat to protect.

    eta: ugh, in moderation because i fatfingered my nym. It’s GibberJack.

  141. 141.

    WaterGirl

    December 8, 2022 at 9:57 pm

    @GibberJack: Doesn’t your device remember your nym?  It should.  Unless you clear your cookies or you are on the site in private browsing mode.

  142. 142.

    Ruckus

    December 8, 2022 at 10:09 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Rethuglican stances always have to have a rather pronounced level of stupid involved. Otherwise they wouldn’t be them. To keep it real, never underestimate their level of stupid, which is often far stupider than a slug might be able to reach. And I doubt that slugs even have an IQ.

  143. 143.

    GibberJack

    December 8, 2022 at 10:48 pm

    @WaterGirl: I clear them from time to time.

    eta Thank you for fixing that!

  144. 144.

    Ruckus

    December 9, 2022 at 3:34 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    These people are fanatics. They see their concept of life going away. It’s been slowly going away piece by piece for a few decades. Sure it’s not a straight line, there have been setbacks, but in the bigger picture they have been losing. It’s taken most of my 7 decades but look at Roe V Wade and when it was decided. Martin answered you correctly, they are culture warriors, not a political party and absolutely not leadership.

    Their concept of life is that there is one way and one way only and that is that they get rich and have what they want and everyone that doesn’t look like them slaves away making them wealthy and leaders. Except they are ignorant assholes, and in no way are they leaders that anyone should follow. But they have racism and wealth on their side and plenty of humans think that is far more than enough. Reasonable humans want ALL humans to be able to have a life, rich with life, liberty and freedom. That freedom is spelled out in our constitution and laws and covers a lot of ground and gives the individual the rights and freedom, and controls the government. Sure there are limits but as countries go, this was one of the few to have such a level of individual power and freedom at that time. We have made changes, back steps, clarifications and improvements. But the conservatives of today, especially the leadership really, really does not want anything like that level of positive for all, democratic principles. They don’t say it directly but they want is a government that is far more like current day Russia. Some even want a government like Nazi Germany. At least they think they want that. They would likely not like the results, they are just too broken mentally to understand that.

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