Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I really should read my own blog.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Jan 6: Hearings / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Jack Smith Is Not Known for Messing Around

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Jack Smith Is Not Known for Messing Around

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John L. Smith has a considerable CV, which would indicate that he’s a very effective prosecutor, but not one much given to self-publicity:

… The requests for records arrived in Dane County, Wis.; Maricopa County, Ariz.; and Wayne County, Mich., late last week, and in Milwaukee on Monday, officials said. They are among the first known subpoenas issued since Smith was named last month by Attorney General Merrick Garland to oversee Trump-related aspects of the investigation of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, as well as the criminal probe of Trump’s possible mishandling of classified documents at his Florida home and private club.

The subpoenas, at least three of which are dated Nov. 22, indicate that the Justice Department is extending its examination of the circumstances leading up to the Capitol attack to include local election officials and their potential interactions with the former president and his representatives related to the 2020 election…

The department’s long-running Jan. 6 investigation has moved beyond the large pool of people who directly took part in the bloody riot at the U.S. Capitol to focus on other aspects of the attempts to overturn the election results. Prosecutors are examining the fundraising, organizing and rhetoric that preceded the riot, and looking at failed efforts to authorize alternate slates of electors. They secured subpoenas this spring and summer for communications between Trump’s inner circle and scores of campaign officials, potential electors and others.

After Trump declared last month that he would again seek the White House in 2024, Garland appointed Smith, a longtime federal prosecutor who once headed the Justice Department’s public corruption section, to oversee the elements of the Jan. 6 investigation potentially related to the former president.

Smith also is overseeing the Mar-a-Lago criminal investigation, which began this spring, after months of disagreement between Trump and the National Archives and Records Administration over boxes of documents that followed the former president from the White House to Mar-a-Lago, his Florida residence and private club…

About those Mar-a-Lago boxes…

… The ultimate significance of the classified material in the storage unit is not immediately clear, but its presence there indicates Mar-a-Lago was not the only place where Trump kept classified material. It also provides further evidence that Trump and his team did not fully comply with a May grand jury subpoena that sought all documents marked classified still in possession of the post-presidential office…

So… there is shovel work being done, but we shouldn’t expect immediate press releases:

Never got to post this, last month:

Between the lines: At least three major factors distinguish the new special counsel from the challenges and constraints of the Mueller investigation:

– Protection: Trump is no longer in office, meaning the Justice Department policy that barred Mueller from indicting a sitting president does not apply. The tools Trump wielded to discredit and jam up the investigation — threatening to fire DOJ officials, dangling pardons and using his bully pulpit — are no longer available to him. Nor is his loyalist Attorney General Bill Barr, who cushioned the blow of the final Mueller report by releasing a summary before making it public.

– Timing: Both Garland and Smith have stressed that the appointment will not slow the pace of either investigation. Smith is inheriting teams of prosecutors and agents that have already made significant headway, unlike Mueller, who had to “fly and build the plane simultaneously,” as Weissman wrote in a recent N.Y. Times column.

– Scope: The sprawling Mueller probe involved both criminal and counterintelligence elements, with much of the key information buried in the bowels of a hostile foreign power. By comparison, the House Jan. 6 committee has already unearthed massive amounts of evidence expected to be referred to DOJ, while the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case is viewed by many legal experts as open-and-shut…

Smith, like Mueller, is only human. But the similarities between the two special counsels’ situations largely end with the title they share.

In 2010, after being criticized for closing corruption cases into members of Congress, Smith told the N.Y. Times: “[I]f I were the sort of person who could be cowed — ‘I know we should bring this case, I know the person did it, but we could lose, and that will look bad,’ I would find another line of work.”

Smith’s appointment did *not* come as a pleasant surprise to TFG, for what that’s worth:

Reader Interactions

130Comments

  1. 1.

    different-church-lady

    C’mon, it’s not like he did something truly horrible like e-mail them to himself before they were classified…

  2. 2.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    I look at these photos of Jack Smith and one word springs to mind. Executioner.

  7. 7.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @White & Gold Purgatorian:

    Yeah. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, fun at parties, his family loves him, but hoo boy he looks like a mean sumbish. A real badass. I would not want to be TFG contemplating that visage.*

    *(Or ever, really.)

  8. 8.

    Matt McIrvin

    Trump is no longer in office, meaning the Justice Department policy that barred Mueller from indicting a sitting president does not apply.

    For now.  The possibility that Trump could be president again does mean there’s potentially a time limit, and as these things go it’s pretty short.

  9. 9.

    sanjeevs

    This is a special counsel taking the 1/6/21 investigation very seriously. It is NOT a special counsel close to indicting on that investigation.

    Two years to issue a subpoena. What a fucking joke.

  13. 13.

    different-church-lady

    @Matt McIrvin: Well, as we’ve already seen with supreme court nominations, the possibility you could be president gives you special privileges (according to some).​

  14. 14.

    ...now I try to be amused

    Jack Smith is a good guy who looks like a bad guy, which is bad news for the bad guys if the tropes are true.

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    As much as I loathe the Raiders, Davonte Adams is doing to Jalen Ramsey what Dk Metcalf has made a career out of. It delivers a certain satisfaction.

  17. 17.

    Ohio Mom

    Is this going to be different than Fitzmas or Mueller? I don’t want my heart broken again.

  20. 20.

    Jeffro

    whew, a “weaponized and corrupt Justice Department ‘stuffed’ with radical left monsters”…man…that sounds reeeeally bad.

    for trumpov!  =)

    he is such a fucking cartoon

  25. 25.

    Cameron

    @Ohio Mom: Good question. From what I’ve seen of his CV, he seems to have a background very well suited to this investigation.  He also seems to carry the look of a Grand Inquisitor well.

  26. 26.

    bbleh

    And as to:

    The ultimate significance of the classified material in the storage unit is not immediately clear, but its presence there indicates Mar-a-Lago was not the only place where Trump kept classified material.

    The significance is what everyone knows it is: Trump does not give a sh!t about laws or regulations and never did.

  28. 28.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Weird that Popehat responds to something that Joyce White Vance never suggested.  I mean, does he know she’s former US Attorney who knows exactly how this stuff works?

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I am starting to think this Garland guy is clever, and Trump walked into a trap.

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I would not want to be TFG contemplating that visage.

    Relevant.  Very relevant.  Keep in mind what a superficial person Trump is.  He thinks life is TV.  For us, it’s an amusing detail that this guy looks so tough.  For Trump, unable to tell looks from reality, he may be shitting his bed thinking the god damn Grim Reaper is after him.

  31. 31.

    Cameron

    @eclare: Apparently she is a committed Democrat,which automatically turns this into a WITCH HUNT SO UNFAIR EVEN ABRAHAM LINCOLN WASN’T TREATED SO UNFAIRLY.

  32. 32.

    pajaro

    @sanjeevs:

    on issuing a subpoena two years ago–It would have been so awesome for Smith to have issued a subpoena for an event that hadn’t taken place, weeks before Biden was inaugurated, months before Garland was confirmed and years before Smith was appointed.

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    boxes of documents that followed the former president from the White House to Mar-a-Lago

    “Honest, they followed me home. Can I keep them?”

    //

  35. 35.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Ohio Mom:

    Is this going to be different than Fitzmas or Mueller?

    I don’t think there’s much odds of 1/6 putting Trump in jail.  Some things are hard to prosecute, which is part of why Mueller punted to congress.  I think Trump is going to jail for the documents thing, and it’s only a question of how long it takes for the government to be sure they have that case completely ready.  That can take awhile when every time you dig up a shovelful of evidence, there’s even more slime underneath.

  38. 38.

    mrmoshpotato

    Punch all of the Kremlin’s bitches in their fat, orange, fascist faces!  Then do it again!  And again!  And again!…

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    @eclare:

    That was weeks ago:

    Katy Chevigny, Smith’s wife, was listed as a producer on Becoming, the former first lady’s 2020 documentary. She also donated $2,000 to President Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign, according to FEC records.

    Trump took to Truth Social to rant about Chevigny and Smith, attaching screenshots of her Tweets supporting the Democratic Party and accusing the Department of Justice of being biased in their investigation.

    “This is just a small amount of information from the wife of the hard-line Radical Left Special Counsel (prosecutor), an acolyte of Eric Holder and Barack Hussein Obama,” he wrote on Tuesday night.

  43. 43.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Ohio Mom: my attitude towards this is to expect the least from the prosecution so I won’t be disappointed.  Personally I think TFG will either not get convicted or kick the bucket before he gets a chance to get convicted but also that he will be dogged financially  by his legal woes forever.

  44. 44.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SiubhanDuinne: @Cameron: I can’t find anything from trump itself, but Smith’s wife was a Biden donor and one of the producers of a documentary about Michelle Obama, Becoming.

    “You would think that if the stated purpose to avoid any type of concern about bias were sincere, then they would at least check to see whether or not when you shake the family tree of the special counsel, any virulent Trump haters, Never Trumpers, Biden supporters fall out,” Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) said during an interview with Steve Bannon on Tuesday.

    “Very interesting… was just told the wife isn’t only a major donor, but also the producer of the gushing Michelle Obama documentary… No wonder Jack Smith accepted this special assignment… The swamp is hard at work!” former Trump spokesman Taylor Budowitch wrote in a tweet.

    She donated $2,000.

  46. 46.

    Steeplejack

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    That’s not Popehat contradicting Vance. He’s putting the brakes on the mob who see subpoenas being issued as meaning something is going to happen right now!

  49. 49.

    Matt McIrvin

    @bobbo: “Obama spied on my campaign” was Trump’s justification for deserving an exception to the two-term limit for Presidents. It all made sense in Trump logic.

  50. 50.

    piratedan

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: c’mon its rife with conflict of interest, when will the Dems show some integrity?  It’s not as if they couldn’t be talking about these events and cases over dinner, in bed, while working in the yard or driving around town.  There’s absolutely no way that they can separate his job from her political activism, it’s not as if these people are Clarence and Ginny Thomas….

  54. 54.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It all made sense in Trump logic.

     

    It’s like when my kids want something and I say no for Some Very Good Reason, and they just keep fucken whining or negotiating and I finally give in because I am so annoyed and just want some GD peace and quiet.
    The Trump Maladministration was like that for four fucken years. For me, at least.

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​
     

    “You would think that if the stated purpose to avoid any type of concern about bias were sincere, then they would at least check to see whether or not when you shake the family tree of the special counsel, any virulent Trump haters, Never Trumpers, Biden supporters fall out,” Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) said during an interview with Steve Bannon on Tuesday.

    Thanks, Matty Pedo. Now tell us about Ginni Thomas, and how “it’s different.”

  57. 57.

    SFAW

    @Matt McIrvin: ​

    “Obama spied on my campaign” was Trump’s justification for deserving an exception to the two-term limit for Presidents.

    Did he really say (or strongly imply) that? Or is that just the “logical” extension of his “massive election fraud so shred the Constitution” insanity?

  58. 58.

    Redshift

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The only unbiased prosecutor would be one who loves Donald Trump and believes he’s completely innocent!

    It’s the Republican rule for investigations: only Republicans can investigate Republicans, because any Democrat would be biased against them, and only Republicans can investigate Democrats, because any Democrat would be biased in their favor.

  59. 59.

    Kent

    @Steeplejack: Somehow I don’t think unhinged personal attacks on family of the special prosecutor who has your balls in a vice grip is quite the right tactic.  Especially one who looks like he is very much not amused.

    It is one thing when you are attacking Ted Cruz or other GOP lightweights.  Something different to go after a prosecutor when your fate is in his hands.

  60. 60.

    eclare

    @Kent:   Especially one who recently prosecuted war crimes for The Hague.  I’m thinking he has received much more serious threats.

  61. 61.

    TriassicSands

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If they wait to get to the bottom of Trump’s criminality, the sun will already have expanded beyond  the orbit of Venus.

    As for Jack Smith. Well, obviously, he has to get divorced. He simply can’t be married, unless his spouse in in a coma and never held any political beliefs one way or the other. He can’t prosecute Trump (or any Republican), because his wife is a Democrat, so he’d be biased. He can’t prosecute Democrats, because he’d obviously go easy on them. Independents of America, watch out, Jack Smith is coming for you.

    Once again Trump proves there is no bottom to his personal barrel of depravity.

  62. 62.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SFAW: it was when he was President, running for reelection. He liked to talk at rallies about how he deserved a third term, maybe a fourth or fifth, and the reason was that Obama spied on his campaign in 2016 so he had some compensation coming.

  64. 64.

    frosty

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: Those photos look to me like a badass from an old Western. Kind of like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti Westerns, but Eastwood has a kinder face. I can’t recall the actor I’m thinking of though.

  65. 65.

    TriassicSands

    @Kent:

    It’s just TFG’s way of making anyone who is a threat to him (in any way) look like they must be on a witch hunt to get him. Poor baby, he’s the most unfairly persecuted* person in all of history.

    Question: How many times in the last almost six years has TFG claimed he is the target of a witch hunt?

    *Now, if only he could be unfairly indicted, unfairly tried, unfairly convicted, and unfairly sentenced to ? years in prison. Oh, if only.

  66. 66.

    frosty

    @Mai Naem mobile: dogged financially by his legal woes forever.

    Honestly, that could be the worst punishment. Either kicking the bucket or conviction could make him a martyr among the MAGAts and he can ride the second for all the adulation he wants. Broke with no chance of ever regaining his wealth; hounded by lawsuits? Fitting end.

  72. 72.

    MobiusKlein

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ah GWAR, such a fun band.

    Saw them live in Isla Vista, UCSB way back.  They sprayed so much fake blood, my skin was stained for a week.

    Asked the critical question – whose dick do you have to suck to become the Pope.
    Answer some guy who then had it chopped off, and sprayed crowd with … something.

  73. 73.

    piratedan

    @frosty: unsure why, but whenever I think of unflappable, relentless nemisis type, I come up with Charles Bronson…. always squinting face rarely changing and even when he smiled, you were never sure it was a good thing.

  77. 77.

    James E Powell

    @Ohio Mom:

    Is this going to be different than Fitzmas or Mueller? I don’t want my heart broken again.

    Whatever they can do, they will do. We have to have faith in our people. After all, we elected them.

    And speaking of elections, I wonder if we should be making little dolls of all the Rs in purple congressional districts, sticking pins in them. Is that evil? Am I a bad person for hoping for some special election magic?

  79. 79.

    frosty

    So who does Jack Smith remind me of? I still don’t know, but …

    @dww44: Yes, I see some Jack Elam. At least the earlier ones with the thinner face.

    @ColoradoGuy: OMG yes, definitely the FO of FAFO!

    @piratedan: Bronson yes, for attitude, but not the right face.

  80. 80.

    Mike in NC

    Said it before: mob boss Trump never understood what classification of national security documents meant. So Putin had unlimited access.

  82. 82.

    Aussie Sheila

    @frosty:

    He will grift off his supporters to the end. There will be plenty of money to pay legals. Hundreds of millions. He needs to be prosecuted. I don’t have much time for the Lincoln Lads, but something RW said is actually true. A failed coup is practice.
    Unless the US government resolutely prosecutes him and every person involved in the failed coup, there will be more attempts.

    I also believe that he and trumpism has to be defeated at the polls. The 2022 mid terms were good all round in that respect. But the law simply must be applied. Anything less than full legal accountability for any and every one who was involved not only rewards gross crimes against the people, but even worse imo, it will hasten political nihilism on the left, not just the right.

    It is imperative that the SC gets a wriggle on. I understand the need for proper process here, but the delays and faffing around has been unbelievable.

    I n Australia a judicial inquiry into our previous Prime Minister secretly assuming numerous Ministerial positions while in office has been conducted, completed, and he was successfully condemned by a majority of the Australian Parliament. All this within 6 months of a new government.

    I understand the issue here at hand is more complex, but the molasses like progress in the most serious thing to have happened (to your country-an illegal war was serious but that happened to another unfortunate country) since the civil war, is simply unconscionable.

  84. 84.

    cain

    @Aussie Sheila: He will grift off his supporters to the end. There will be plenty of money to pay legals. Hundreds of millions. He needs to be prosecuted. I don’t have much time for the Lincoln Lads, but something RW said is actually true. A failed coup is practice.

    I’m weirded out by how much money these Trump supporters have. They keep giving and giving and giving – to a fucking rich man. Crazy.

  85. 85.

    frosty

    @Wombat Probability Cloud: Yeah, maybe a little Lee Van Cleef too, if Lee let the mustache grow down to a beard. But definitely not Eli Wallach.

    @prostratedragon: Nope, not Warren Oates either.

    Thanks all y’all, this has been fun! This at least proves that Jack Smith is really somebody you don’t want to mess with. All these actors were real baddies.

  87. 87.

    Juju

    Jack Smith looks like a serious badass with a serious scowl, but when I look at pictures of him I think to myself that if he were a woman I’m sure by now someone would have told him he’d look so much better if he smiled more.

  92. 92.

    bjacques

    I’m thinking more General Sherman from all the memes. YOUR MOMMA’S SWEET POTATO PIE WAS DELICIOUS.

  93. 93.

    Aussie Sheila

     

    @cain:

    But this is what makes this so dangerous.

    His supporters are the primary voters for Republican candidates.

    A significant, not all certainly, but a sizeable number, don’t believe that what happened happened, or worse, think it’s ok. I can’t think of a major democracy where this would be seen as ok or a ‘forgivable reaction’ to losing an election.

    I don’t think people here understand how gobsmacked the rest of the democratic world is at what happened on 6/1/2021.

    Instead of stanning the looks of the SC, for god’s  sake, how about a campaign to ensure that justice pursues these fascists and that the AG ensures that everyone involved faces the Courts?

    The SC Jack Smith will no doubt do his work faithfully and to the best of his ability. Who cares how he looks.

    The question is-will the AG of the US support the necessary indictments and prosecutions?

    What happens if the indictments are ready just before the next presidential election?

    What if tfg is the obvious repub candidate well before the indictments drop?

    Who will be ready for the shit show to follow?I couldn’t care less how he looks. The SC has to be prodded to get going, and the Dems need to be on his case all the time. Less fanboying, and more seriousness about what happened would be good.
    Unfortunately, the US often acts as first mover in a range of political and cultural movements across the world.
    I am not keen on the ‘attempted coups are ok if they are against the left’ meme which will sweep the world if tfg is not charged and convicted.

    Speaking for a country that has followed US cultural and political trends, for good and bad, since WW2.

  96. 96.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Aussie Sheila:

    Instead of stanning the looks of the SC, for god’s sake, how about a campaign to ensure that justice pursues these fascists and that the AG ensures that everyone involved faces the Courts?

    The SC Jack Smith will no doubt do his work faithfully and to the best of his ability. Who cares how he looks.

    What bearing does a few random people on a top 10,000 blog “stanning” Smith’s looks have on whether the SC will be effective or not? It seems as if you’re confusing people here and on social media with elected Dems. And what makes you think he and Garland won’t be? If someone like Popehat thinks Jack Smith is taking his duties seriously then that’s good enough for me. Why do you think the SC “needs to be prodded to get going”? I don’t think there’s any question whatsoever that the AG will support whatever indictments and prosecutions are necessary provided the evidence is there and strong enough to convict on

  99. 99.

    David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch

    @piratedan: ​
     I had heard Jack Palance’s real name was unusual, but I never looked it up, until now.

    He was actually of Ukrainian decent and his birth name was Volodymyr Palahniuk.

  100. 100.

    ColoradoGuy

    I think the caution is due to the fact that everything is setting a precedent, and the justifiable fear the GOP will go full Nixon and routinely prosecute Democrats in show trials every time they control the Presidency.

    This fear is real, but it doesn’t acknowledge the even darker reality the GOP is now ready to throw everything overboard and set up a full-blown theocratic dictatorship, with sham courts, fascist police, and corrupt, gerrymandered state legislatures controlling the votes. Worse, there is precedent for this, in the pre-Civil War South, which had exactly that political system.

  101. 101.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    If you don’t think politics plays a part in when, who and how indictments of this nature are brought I can’t help you.

    If Biden is facing re-election (which I hope he is ) in 2024, and the late indictments are awaiting prosecution, and tfg is the presumptive Republican candidate, are you confident prosecution will go forward?

    I’m not.

    That is the problem. I hold people posting here in high regard because they take their politics seriously and effectively.

    If it is a choice between prosecuting tfg, and going ahead with an election between tfg and Biden because there wasn’t time to prosecute him, what do you think the choice would be?

    That is the problem.

    It is not a small political conundrum . It is everything.

  102. 102.

    Edmund Dantes

    @Aussie Sheila: I’m trying to think of any justification why subpoenas to state officials and others for any and all communications with respect to trump had to wait until now. There was already plenty of information out there from very close to the events of January 6th showing the involvement of lots of state government gop.

    it should not have taken until now for the professionals of the DOJ to figure out they would want to subpoena that information.

  103. 103.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Aussie Sheila:

    Why do you assume there won’t be enough time? Or even if Trump will be the nominee in two years? Two years is a long time in politics. It’s clear he’s lost quite a bit of his mojo.

    History shows that even being in jail can’t stop someone from running for the presidency; Eugene V Debs did so in 1920

  104. 104.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Edmund Dantes:

    Yes. Exactly. I am very worried about the pace of this. What happened on 1/6 was f ing unbelievable. What is worse, the only viable alternative political party to the Dems appear to either deny or endorse what happened. I don’t understand how anyone can’t understand how unbelievable this all appears to the rest of the left/centre left, even the centre right of the democratic world this appears. If the people responsible aren’t punished severely, it will send a message to the worst of the worst everywhere.

    That is my issue and my angst.

  105. 105.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I am quite aware that Eugene Debs ran for office from prison.

    Forgive me if I don’t think Eugene Debs equals tfg in the circumstance. If you think he does, I suggest you read a bit more about the history of both Debs and the forces he was contending with.

  106. 106.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Aussie Sheila:

    I’m aware Debs was the polar opposite of TFG politically. The point was that throwing Trump in jail would not necessarily stop him from running in 2024 unless he were convicted on one of the charges barring him from ever holding office ever again

  107. 107.

    knally

    @frosty: I’m a bit late to the game, but try googling Henry Fonda beard.

    I initially thought of him in Once Upon A TIme in The West, but he was beardless in that!

  109. 109.

    livewyre

    @Aussie Sheila: I agree with you about how serious this is. But this strikes me as a time for resolve, not angst. If obsessing about how badly things might go in a couple years paralyzes us, then that is the opposite of what we need to do.

    Unfortunately, that’s all I see in all the recrimination and speculation about the possible ulterior motives of notionally unaccountable officials. Yes, it would be nice if we knew more about the investigations and the deliberations that fuel them. No, it would not be nice if the parties under investigation also knew these things. That’s why investigations are not conducted in public. If we don’t trust the officials to do their basic jobs – especially in this administration that has moved mountains to earn that trust – that betrays a lack of trust in the concept of law to begin with.

    And that’s exactly what the lawless are doing their utmost to provoke. They’re counting on us abandoning the concept of law and any hope that it can be brought to bear on anyone influential enough to evade it. They’re counting on us relinquishing our existing, real democratic power to actually-unaccountable nobility. They need us to be afraid of them. That’s exactly why we need not to be.

  110. 110.

    Ruckus

    @Aussie Sheila:

    The structure of the US government and our laws make things take a long time. It’s not just this case, many cases take years, especially ones that require ironclad results. And this is one of those.

    I’m not familiar with Australian structure or law so but I have seen legal issues less complex and not at all political last years in this country. Many people don’t see this in our country so they expect things to move a lot faster than normal and this is in no way normal. How could it be normal, ShitForBrains is involved?

  111. 111.

    Aussie Sheila

    @livewyre:

    I agree with your sentiments. I just have what I regard as a healthy cynicism towards the ability of well intentioned actors in the US to prevail. I don’t doubt the focus and sincerity of the SC, but the US legal system is designed to ensure white collar criminals get every benefit of the doubt. When combined with politically powerful actors like the republicans party, who might be required to support tfg as their 2024 nominee, I am full of foreboding.

    In 2016 I and a number of my comrades in Oz believed tfg would win. No one here did. No dissing. But sometimes distance and and a certain amount of dispassionate analysis helps.

    It was the anti immigrant rhetoric that convinced me he would win. We saw it here in Oz, utilised against refugees coming in boats. Now the whole schtick has been weaponised against everyone the right hates. Combined with the anti majoritarian tilt of US political institutions, and the attempted coup, a whole new danger to the much vaunted ‘free world’ has been birthed.

    The phone call is coming from within the house.

  112. 112.

    Geminid

    @Aussie Sheila: I appreciate your thoughts and don’t mean to derail the conversation but I had a question about Australia’s Labor Party. A few weeks ago you explained that its union component was larger and more powerful than that in the our Democratic Party. I was wondering though about the composition of the rest of the party’s voters.

    Also, I believe one or two smaller parties support the Labor Government with “maintenance and supply” agreements. I wonder how those parties’ voters tend to be demographically and/or ideologically. What differentiates them from Liberal Party voters?

    I would appreciate your observations on these questions if you are inclined to make them.

  113. 113.

    livewyre

    @Aussie Sheila: The system is battered, burdened, and biased, no question. The question is whether it can also be better. Obviously, we both hope so. I’m just inclined towards less foreboding and more fighting. If this last election has shown anything, it’s what a red wave is really made of – fear, not fate.

    This is not to say I trust the system to heal itself without any further action. That’s what the fighting is for. It’s more like… knowing what needs changing. How it got this way and how not to go back. Part of what I’m fighting against is this norm of inevitability, this flicker of fatalism inflicted on us both by our own past and from places where it’s in the water.

    It’s not only explosives that are being dropped on Ukraine. What both they and we are under fire from is a picture of no future. I happen to think both of us can win. To me, there’s literally no alternative.

  114. 114.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Geminid:

    I will reply as best I can. The ALP (Australian Labor Party) is the oldest Labor Party in the world. I will skip over history and say in the last election it commanded around 33 % of the primary vote. Primary vote means the number 1 on the ballots, which are compulsory preferential ballots in a federal election.

    The ALP won 77 seats out of 151 seats, thus winning a majority of seats in the House of Representatives, the lower house.

    However the real icing on the cake was the loss by the Liberals (Oz conservatives) of six blue ribbon liberal seats in urban areas, and the Green Party winning 4 seats also in the urban areas. Thus the anti conservative parties and reps in the lower house have a very healthy majority. In the Senate, the Greens, the ALP and an independent have a majority.

    Bear in mind we have compulsory preferential voting here, so the electoral preferences of the actual urban majority are more or less reflected in the number of lower house seats.

    Also, the Australian Greens while never my preference for the House of Representatives, are nothing like the US Greens, who are nothing more than a Putin funded outfit imo.

    The social base of the ALP is probably a bit like the US Dems except there is more of a working class ethos here than in the US. Plus small business is not always as hostile to the centre left here as it seems to be in the US.

    The Australian union movement is much weaker now than it was 30 years ago but it still packs a big electoral punch. Money plus foot soldiers, plus a much more centralised organisational structure which is also mostly tied institutionally and organisationally to the ALP. However many unions are not affiliated to the ALP, and unions in higher education and some blue collar unions support financially and policy wise, the Australian Greens, whose policies are often very good, but whose broad reach often leaves a lot to be desired in relation to winning in the lower house, where the real decisions are made.

    The Australian Constitution (ratified 1901) owes something to the US constitution, however it is a creature of the late 19th century, not the 18th century, and was written and considered by men for whom the Chartists movement was more important than the Glorious Revolution of 1688. It was also adopted by a political class that needed Irish and working class votes, since universal manhood suffrage was the norm in most states, and womens suffrage was adopted at the same time because it had been the adopted prior to federation in South Australia.

    The history of indigenous exclusion and the White Australia Policy is also important to understanding subsequent political developments and the evolution of a multi cultural polity in the late 20th century.

    The drive to amend our Constitution to include acknowledgement of the first people of this country is an important goal of the current ALP government.

    sorry this is a bit scattered, but it is a big topic! I do believe though that the franchise, equally and honestly administered is the key to moving in a better direction, and until the US centre left comes to grip with one vote, one value, and equal access to the ballot, based on equal electorates, there is danger ahead. We have an independent electoral commission that oversees our elections and the apportionment of electorates. It has served democracy well here. Ironically, the source of compulsory voting here were the conservatives, who were pissed off that the union movement were so successful in organising an anti conservative vote in rural areas where agricultural labour was organised by the Australian Workers Union, that they decided that forcing every one to vote would dilute the union/ALP vote. Yeah, na.

  115. 115.

    ColoradoGuy

    @Aussie Sheila: The Economist magazine, a few years back, had an all-USA issue playfully called “The Old Country”. Although the title was meant to shock Americans, they had a point: our system is nearly unchanged in overall shape for last two and half centuries, while other advanced democracies are far more modern.

    Fear of a Constitutional Convention is what drives much of the reluctance to change. A CC could, and likely would, rewrite the whole thing. There are probably about 30% who would love to make the USA into a straight-up Iran-style theocracy … which would trigger a civil war in a country as heavily armed as the USA. A Constitution Convention is widely seen as extraordinarily dangerous in a country of this size and power, complete with thousands of nuclear weapons scattered across a wide swath of the country.

    But the system is really showing strain after two and a half centuries. All the complex and jury-rigged compromises designed to mollify the Southern States are blowing up in our face. The Electoral College, which has now twice selected the loser in 2000 and 2016, and not only were they both terrible Presidents, but they in turn selected lifetime judges for a Supreme Court that is completely unaccountable to the popular will. A Senate that has become grossly unrepresentative with no solution on the horizon, except abolition of the body, or no longer using states to select the Senators. A Supreme Court that has become a travesty of a judicial body, stacked with religious fanatics with lifetime appointments, and no functional method of removal.

    In the 1820’s through 1860, the South used every gimmick to rule the Federal Government, controlling the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court (the Taney Court of Dred Scott notoriety). And it led to one of the most vicious wars of the 19th century, one of first mechanized Total Wars.

    Frankly, I don’t know how we get through this. A racist minority is determined to seize control, backed by a billionaire class (including Rupert Murdoch and family) intent on setting up a techno-feudalist system.

  116. 116.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Aussie Sheila:

    I just wanted to say that I do understand your anxiety to an extent and that I do share it a bit, but I trust the word of those like Popehat and our own Omnes Omnibus too when it comes to Garland and the SC’s efforts

  118. 118.

    Gvg

    @Aussie Sheila: um, we don’t have a choice about going ahead with an election. They happen on specific dates period.

    we do worry about the prosecution not happening before the election, that was in earlier comments, plus this is a subject we have worried about in numerous threads here for years.

    The supreme court doesn’t actually have much of anything to do with the prosecution of the cases. It is the Justice department that does that. This whole thread has been about if they are moving fast enough but since it’s not the first time we have done some side humor discussing the appearance of the lead investigator.

    when you write events on 6/1/21 Americans think “what happened in June?”  Remember we write the month first. I started to google that date.

  120. 120.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Gvg:

    Apologies. When I write SC I mean Special Counsel (prosecutor). I know the USSC is not the issue at immediate hand here.

    As to the date writing protocol, I know how you write dates. It’s not how we write dates. I write with the spelling and style I am familiar with. I am sure you can adjust

  121. 121.

    lowtechcyclist

    the House Jan. 6 committee has already unearthed massive amounts of evidence expected to be referred to DOJ, while the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case is viewed by many legal experts as open-and-shut…

    I don’t see why the documents case has to wait for the insurrection case. ISTM that the only possible open question there is one of intent, and it sure seems like there’s hardly any wiggle room for TFG’s lawyers there, even if he gets the best damn lawyers in the country.

    (I really hate the role that intent plays in our judicial system. IMHO, it’s all about how good a lawyer you can afford.)

  123. 123.

    Barry

    @Matt McIrvin: “For now.  The possibility that Trump could be president again does mean there’s potentially a time limit, and as these things go it’s pretty short.”

     

    And he has to work in a department whose core job is supporting Republican Presidents.

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    @Aussie Sheila: Thanks you! I’m interested in the politics of your nation as it has commonalities with my own. The impact of demographic trends could be similar, but I think we need to see how younger voters behave the next to cycles to see if they keep collectively rejection the Republicans. Have voters 18-30 drifted away from your conservative party, the Liberals?

    And your references to the events of “6/1/21” did not throw me. I have learned of the different convention many countries have for dates. And even if I had not the context would have made it understandable without straining my mind too much.

  125. 125.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Aussie Sheila:

    When I write SC I mean Special Counsel (prosecutor). I know the USSC is not the issue at immediate hand here.

    IOW like so many commenters on this blog, you toss about your own acronyms without bothering to define them, leaving it to readers to piece together what you might have meant. Gotcha.

    As to the date writing protocol, I know how you write dates. It’s not how we write dates. I write with the spelling and style I am familiar with. I am sure you can adjust

    Yeah, it’s up to us, the overwhelmingly USan readership of a US blog, to adjust to your usage, because you just can’t be fucking bothered.

    How ’bout you fuck right off instead, hon? And take your antipodean arrogance with you as you flounce out the door?

  126. 126.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    Two rules I’ve tried to follow (and, for my sins, impress on others about their importance):

    1. Define your acronyms the first time you use them, because undefined alphabet soup can quickly become a nightmare.
    2. Whenever possible, avoid ambiguities. Don’t assume people will automatically know which of two different interpretations you’re using.

    This blog may be focused on American politics, but it has international readers and participants. To an American, 1/6 may obviously refer to January 6, but elsewhere it’s the first of June. (I’ve had to write a small article about it for my colleagues.) And undefined abbreviations … ho boy. That’s driven me to the aspirin bottle more than once.

  127. 127.

    Denali

    @Aussie Sheila,

    Thank you for your comments. It has prompted serious discussion on the issues surrounding  TFG. It was clear to me that TFG had the support of the media simply because of all the press he found before the election. He attracted the clicks so made them money. In seeking the lowest level, he found a following, and also found rich supporters. I am convinced that he has not been indicted because the evidence would also bring down many many people in Congress. See the Epstein story. It is a national tragedy.

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    I would love if Aussie Sheila wrote some blogposts for us.  Amir Khalid, too.

    The view from across an ocean.

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