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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Not-So-Bad Friday Morning Open Thread: Love Is Love, But Paperwork Matters

Not-So-Bad Friday Morning Open Thread: Love Is Love, But Paperwork Matters

by Anne Laurie|  December 9, 20228:15 am| 217 Comments

This post is in: Civil Rights, LGBTQ Rights Are Human Rights, NANCY SMASH!, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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In 1987, newly-elected Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi participated in the National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights

In 2022, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi signs the Respect for Marriage Act in one of her final acts as Speaker of the House

So grateful for her leadership! pic.twitter.com/zWYYiqwasG

— Anthony Close ?? (@AnthonyClose) December 8, 2022

First Senator Warnock won reelection, and now Nancy Pelosi gets to take a victory lap:

… In June, the Republican supermajority on the Supreme Court eviscerated long-standing precedent and the right to privacy with its disgraceful decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. Justice Clarence Thomas took explicit aim at marriage equality: urging the court to reconsider Obergefell and upend the lives of countless families across the country. While his legal reasoning is twisted and unsound, we must take Justice Thomas — and the extremist movement behind him — at their word.

Our Respect for Marriage Act combats this threat by requiring states to recognize same-sex marriages, as long as they are valid in the state where they were performed. It also finally repeals the discriminatory Defense of Marriage Act, so that no future MAGA majority in Congress or president in the White House can wield this policy as a weapon of bigotry.

We soon will send this vital legislation to President Biden for signature: a glorious triumph of love, of freedom and of dignity for all.

This action is the latest step forward in House Democrats’ longtime fight for full equality, waged alongside generations of fearless activists…

Just as I began my career fighting for LGBTQ communities, I am overjoyed that one of the final bills I will sign as speaker will be the Respect for Marriage Act: ensuring the federal government will never again stand in the way of marrying the person you love.

After the Obergefell decision was announced, Jim Obergefell declared to an ecstatic crowd outside the Supreme Court: “Today’s ruling from the Supreme Court affirms what millions across this country already know to be true in our hearts: Our love is equal.”

That is a truth that Democrats proudly honor this week as we carry on our mission to build a brighter, fairer future for generations to come.

I’m so glad my former Representative lived to celebrate this day, too:

“I was here for the birth of DOMA, so I am very grateful to be here for the funeral.”

Former Rep. Barney Frank, the first member of Congress to voluntarily come out as gay, attended the historic House vote to protect same-sex and interracial marriage. https://t.co/LjHBum1fQl

— Yahoo News (@YahooNews) December 8, 2022


Sarah Posner: The same-sex marriage bill proves Republicans are waking up to the religious right’s shell game. https://t.co/0M5Wui0BBv

— MSNBC (@MSNBC) December 8, 2022


TL;DR — Repubs outside of the safest Talibangelical precincts (mostly) know how to count:

Thursday’s final passage of the Respect for Marriage Act reveals a small but important fissure in the Republican Party’s long alliance with the Christian right. The GOP backers — 39 in the House and 12 in the Senate — recognize that nearly three-quarters of Americans support marriage equality, and only a narrow minority, primarily white evangelicals, opposes it. These 51 Republicans (though still less than a quarter of the caucus) rejected false and apocalyptic claims by influential Christian right leaders that the bill would abandon religious Americans to a “woke” agenda and eviscerate their religious freedom — claims they persisted in making even after senators added expansive religious liberty protections based on their demands…

Congress passed marriage equality today.

“Love is love” has always been the slogan.

But, legal marriage matters so much after a spouse’s death.

While I celebrate love, I am thinking about everyone who had to manage their spouse’s death without a marriage certificate’s power.

— [email protected] (@dataandpolitics) December 8, 2022

If you think this is hypothetical, some kind of worst-case thinking, I leave you with two stories.

The first is the facta for the titular Obergefell decision.

— [email protected] (@dataandpolitics) December 8, 2022

Second, and this happened to me and it happened last month in San Francisco.

Armed with a valid death certificate listing me as surviving spouse, an @ATT storage manager called the police on me rather than help me once she realized I was gay.

This happens and it’s real.

— [email protected] (@dataandpolitics) December 8, 2022

The legal power in those two documents — marriage certificates and death certificates — is indescribable.

I am heartbroken to imagine how many LGBTQ Americans were denied their power and how many LGBTQ people around the world continue to be denied their power.

— [email protected] (@dataandpolitics) December 8, 2022

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Reader Interactions

217Comments

  1. 1.

    JMS

    December 9, 2022 at 8:20 am

    Hmm.. speaking of one of the bill’s architects in the senate, how does Sinema’s next move play out?

  2. 2.

    Stacib

    December 9, 2022 at 8:23 am

    Sinema has left the Democratic party.

  3. 3.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 8:24 am

    @JMS: I’ve gotta think that is 100% about avoiding a humiliating primary defeat. Maybe Suzanne can share some AZ electorate insights, but my take from afar is Sinema is handing the seat to whichever horror show the AZ GOP nominates because Dems need to be 100% unified to win in that state, and this pretty much guarantees they won’t be. Hopefully Sinema will approve Biden’s judicial nominees for two more years and then fade into well-earned obscurity.

  4. 4.

    O. Felix Culpa

    December 9, 2022 at 8:27 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I have to think this is (another) sign that she’s not running again and (still) doesn’t care who she fucks over on her way out. She’s a chaos agent and Arizona–and the rest of the country–deserve better.

  5. 5.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 8:28 am

    I would pay good money for an Isaac Chotiner interview of Senator Kyrsten Sparkly Unicorn.

  6. 6.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 8:29 am

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t know. I might have convinced myself that this is a good thing. Now the Dems can have a primary without her sorry ass in it. Gallego has already made some noise, I think Greg Stanton could also be good.

    The party there has supported her due to inertia. Everyone there knows she sucks, but she put together a (surprisingly durable) winning coalition during years when that was a rare thing.

    I think the GOP candidate will matter here. If they stop electing idiots like Blake Masters, who no one had ever heard of before, and get back to #TeamNormal typical GOP assholes, I think it will be tough.

    I don’t think she’s running again, TBH.

  7. 7.

    Cmorenc

    December 9, 2022 at 8:29 am

    Krisen sinema just announced she is leaving the democratic party to register as an independent – fucking drama queen probably realizes she will lose the 2024 D primary, and so can’t help speculating her plan is to run as a 3p in 2024 to spoil the D hope of keeping the seat.  Or else she has drunk the andrew yang third way bullshit, with the same end result.

  8. 8.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 8:30 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: The buzz is that it’s a sign she IS running again, realizes she can’t win a primary, and is opting instead to fuck over the Democrats by splitting the vote if they dare to run anybody.

  9. 9.

    JMG

    December 9, 2022 at 8:31 am

    There are any number of pols in Congress who have no interest in legislating and exist to do performance politics, but almost all of them have some allegedly ideological point to make when doing so. Sinema is just all performance. She’s the street mime of the Senate.

  10. 10.

    Anne Laurie

    December 9, 2022 at 8:32 am

    @JMS: Hmm.. speaking of one of the bill’s architects in the senate, how does Sinema’s next move play out?

    She starts collecting ‘reelection’ donations & speaking fees from the same ‘I am not a mere tool of any party’ Daddy Warbucks who’ve made the junior Senator from Vermont a millionaire.

    Then — since she doesn’t seem to love hanging around the Senate floor haranguing her colleagues just for the sake of hearing her own voice — she jumps ship in 2024, to whichever think tank offers her the most visible sinecure.

    Or — one can but hope — she announces, discovers that she’s no longer valuable to anti-Democratic moneybags, and slides out of public view like a hog on ice…

    And I wish to Murphy we could celebrate the good things, instead of obsessing over drama addicts, but that’s one of the drawbacks to being a Democrat!

  11. 11.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Suzanne: She’s given the Arizona Democrats a chance to spend 2 years running against her. Will they do that?

  12. 12.

    Paul W.

    December 9, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Cmorenc: I don’t think the electorate that picked Kelly is going to go independent instead of just going for the actual Dem on the ticket.

    but then, I’ve never understood this woman.

  13. 13.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Stacib:

    Sinema has left the Democratic party.

    Guffaw. I love how she couldn’t concentrate on her ONE workplace contribution (her alleged immigration reform law) for more than a week.
    She wasn’t getting enough attention.

  14. 14.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 8:33 am

    @Suzanne: I think the idea is that she’s threatening to throw the election to the Republicans if the Democrats run a candidate at all–so she can anoint herself as the de facto Democratic nominee without having to win a primary, through a mutual assured destruction threat.

  15. 15.

    SFAW

    December 9, 2022 at 8:35 am

    My question is: what’s Sinema going to do when this (figurative) 15 minutes of fame is over? She needs attention almost as much as TFG. OK, maybe not almost as much, but within spittin’ distance.​

  16. 16.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 8:35 am

    @SFAW: Fox News.

  17. 17.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    The US justice department is seeking a top federal judge to hold Donald Trump’s political office in contempt of court for not fully complying with a grand jury subpoena issued in May demanding the return of all classified documents in its possession, according to a source familiar with the matter.

    The department in recent weeks asked the chief US district court judge for the District of Columbia, Beryl Howell, to hold Trump’s office in contempt after prosecutors were unable to get the former president’s lawyers to designate a custodian of records to certify all records were returned.

    Howell has not ruled on the matter, which remains under seal. But the move, earlier reported by the Washington Post, significantly raises the stakes for Trump as he stares down a criminal investigation into unauthorized retention of national security information and obstruction of justice.

    The issue is to do with the Trump legal team’s reluctance to designate a custodian of records to certify that Trump is no longer in possession of any documents marked classified and thus in compliance with the subpoena that demanded the return of all such government records, the source said.

    Gee, couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch of greedy cowards.

  18. 18.

    Anne Laurie

    December 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    @Layer8Problem: I would pay good money for an Isaac Chotiner interview of Senator Kyrsten Sparkly Unicorn.

    What have you got against Isaac Chotiner?

    He’s the best at what he does, but interviewing her would be like trying to nail Marshmellow Fluff to the wall — tiring, sticky, and unproductive.

  19. 19.

    Steeplejack

    December 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    @Layer8Problem:

    God, yes, I would love that.

  20. 20.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Good morning, how have you been?

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    December 9, 2022 at 8:36 am

    The bliss of not being a political junkie: I muttered, “Sinema is becoming an Independent.” My husband said, “Who’s that?” HE HAD NO FUCKING IDEA. How I wish I were him.

  22. 22.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 8:37 am

    @Suzanne: I was hoping you’d weigh in — thanks! I made the assumption she’d run again as an independent, but I hope you’re right. Our best shot at holding onto the seat is with her out, probably. I didn’t watch the whole interview with Tapper. The clips I’ve seen didn’t address 2024.

  23. 23.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 8:37 am

    @Suzanne:  I’m hoping no rich lunatic RWNJ decides that funding a Third Way/No Labels independent run for her is just the ticket to split off any woo-adjacent Democrats and independents and park a Republican in that seat.

    I just read that she’s a BYU graduate.  That’s some mavericking.

  24. 24.

    Scout211

    December 9, 2022 at 8:38 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: I have to think this is (another) sign that she’s not running again

    That was my first thought when I read that she is registering as an independent. She needs all the media attention and the political power that she thinks she will continue to enjoy during Senate negotiations.

    I am wrong most of the time, but I am thinking that she is in a two year employment negotiation with her next employer and may even leave the Senate early.

  25. 25.

    Cmorenc

    December 9, 2022 at 8:39 am

    @Spanky:

    jumping to the gop won’t do her any good – she would lose to a RW MAGA candidate.  Is she delusional enough to think she can beat both parties as an independent, or would she do it anyways just out of drama and spite ?

  26. 26.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:39 am

    Alexandra Petri
    @petridishes
    actually the I in Sinema (I-AZ) is just the pronoun I

    True for all the performative Independents, really

    Can’t be THE superstar of your own show if you’re on a team or working with a group!
    No one would hire these people outside the Senate, just FYI. They don’t know how to work with others.

  27. 27.

    MattF

    December 9, 2022 at 8:40 am

    Shopping mall in Moscow is ablaze.

  28. 28.

    Amir Khalid

    December 9, 2022 at 8:40 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I read a fair bit about Arizona Democratic voters’ unhappiness with Sinema — in particular, that they were expecting a more reliable D vote in the Senate than she’s turned out to be. And about how that has made her unpopular with Dem voters. If she runs for reelection as an independent to evade a Democratic primary defeat, would that diminish her ability to split the Democratic vote?

  29. 29.

    becca

    December 9, 2022 at 8:40 am

    I would really like to barf all over Senema’s trainers right now.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 8:40 am

    @zhena gogolia: LOL! I envy my normie husband so often too. ;-)

  31. 31.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 8:41 am

    @Anne Laurie:  Pure exquisite entertainment and his background on how the hell we got here would be useful.  And the quotes!  “I have no there there?  Really Isaac, I think actually having a there is overrated.”

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 8:42 am

    WRT Sinema:

    I’m just hearing Roy Orbison:  “Shitty woman, walking down the street.  Shitty woman …”

    Arizona has a Democratic governor now.  FWIW

    ETA:  Well, Governor-Elect, anyway.  Well done, Katie Hobbs.

  33. 33.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 8:42 am

    @Amir Khalid: She can’t win, but she only has to knock off a few percent of the vote to ratfuck the Democratic candidate and ensure a Republican win, which may be the actual goal here. The logic may be to force the Democrats to run nobody so she can win as an independent, under the reasoning that Sinema is better than a Republican (though I don’t think she’d actually win that way either).

  34. 34.

    Albatrossity

    December 9, 2022 at 8:43 am

    @Betty Cracker: That’s an optimistic take.

    My (darker) take is that she hadn’t been seeing her name in the headlines as often as she wished, But now she will be there daily. She’s a narcissistic entitled troll.

    I hope you are right.

  35. 35.

    Nicole

    December 9, 2022 at 8:43 am

    If she says she’s not caucusing with the Democrats I don’t think she gets to keep any Committee seats.  Which, as I think she is congenitally lazy, is probably fine with her.

    Technically we didn’t have 51 before; the Democrats get to count Sanders and King because they caucus with us.  I think this is mostly, as O. Felix Culpa pointed out, either about her not running again and trying to get as much teevee time as she can before becoming a “liberal” commentator for Fox or she’s trying to avoid a humiliating primary defeat.  Running as 3rd party might not be the spoiler for Dems we worry about; there are a number of Republicans who are desperate for another voting option that’s A) not batshit crazy and B) not a Democrat.   As she’s yet to do any too-many-minutes-long video love letters to her gun collection (“It’s GERMAN, pant pant”) she might be good enough for them.

  36. 36.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:45 am

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes
    ·1h
    Also, it’s by no means an apples to apples comparison, but her fellow Arizona Democratic Senator just won by considerably more with way less drama, while being a reliable vote for progressive policy priorities.

    Have to love how this recent, on the ground evidence of what Arizona voters want did not sway her at all- she polled her donors who all told her everyone hates Democrats and she should be a fake Republican.
    The “nonpartisan” cult is delusional. They ignore evidence.

  37. 37.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @Betty Cracker: I agree, I think she believes this move will force the Democrats to clear the field for her. She knows that if she tried to run as a Democrat in 2024 she would lose the primary because of how she’s shit all over the party. I guess she thinks she can get the same kind of consideration Bernie and Angus King get.

  38. 38.

    sdhays

    December 9, 2022 at 8:48 am

    @Matt McIrvin: That’s my assumption. She could see she had no chance in hell of winning a Democratic primary again, so she opted out. Now Arizona Democrats have to either game-plan how to somehow defeat both her and a Republican or hold their noses again and just support her.

    And 2024 is an election where the Democrats don’t have any good pick-up prospects, so the Arizona seat could be the seat that determines control of the Senate. I really hope she can be convinced to just cash out.

  39. 39.

    Quinerly

    December 9, 2022 at 8:49 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I thought if Warnock lost, she would switch to the Republican Party or register as an Independent and caucus with the Republicans. We dodged a bullet.

    Agent of chaos is an excellent description. Attention seeker.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:49 am

    @Nicole:

    She’s clearly devastated the Red Wave didn’t appear. There’s a lot of that going on. The public were supposed to reject the Democrats as “too woke” – the NYTimes told them this would happen! Now that it hasn’t they’re “acting out”.

  41. 41.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    @MattF: I blame Brittney Griner.

  42. 42.

    Jeffg166

    December 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    Sinema made it official she is a fraud. She would have been primaried and lost. She can try a third party but I expect she will get republican voters not democrats in the general election.

  43. 43.

    sdhays

    December 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    @Kay: It couldn’t sway her because she had already shit that bed. Maybe she should have been more careful about totally pissing off everyone in her local party right after Biden was inaugurated so she could have left herself some options.

  44. 44.

    Quinerly

    December 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I totally believe this.

  45. 45.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 8:52 am

    WaPo headline:

    In Senate shake-up, Sinema changes her party affiliation to independent

    I admit to being a bit dense, but I’m not seeing much of a “shake up” in the Senate.

  46. 46.

    sdhays

    December 9, 2022 at 8:53 am

    @Jeffg166: She can’t win in a 3-way election. I’m honestly not sure she can win in a 2-way election at this point – Democrats will be so pissed at her. But I wouldn’t bet on her pulling in more Republican votes than Democratic/independent votes, and all you need is a plurality to win in Arizona.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:54 am

    The state wins in Arizona still happened, despite the contrarian insistence that the public wants Republicans.

    Sinema is out of touch with the public in her own state. She doesn’t listen to them. She can pretend the red wave happened if she wants but it didn’t and Arizona voters moved more towards Democrats, not less. She cant be this delusional and win statewide. She has the approach of a House member in a safe, gerrymandered seat.

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack

    December 9, 2022 at 8:56 am

    @Kay:

    Katty Kay, whom I do not support, made a rare good point on Morning Joe just now: with the House under GQP control in the coming Congress, there probably won’t be any potentially significant legislation benefitting Sinema’s constituents (billionaires and large financial companies), so she can spend her time working on her “brand” or whatever. (Paraphrasing.)

  49. 49.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 8:57 am

    @Kay: She can’t win, but she can cause damage and create drama, which may be her actual goal. If she runs as an Independent and the Republican candidate wins, she can spin it as out-of-touch Democrats losing by rejecting her Third Wayism, and her career as a right-wing media figure starts there.

  50. 50.

    JMG

    December 9, 2022 at 8:57 am

    Sinema’s office told the Post she would continue with her committee assignments, meaning she will continue to caucus with the Democrats. She has always voted for Biden’s judges. She doesn’t vote with the party on one issue. She is a devout opponent of taxes on rich people. As someone whose name I didn’t recognize on Twitter said, “now private equity has its own Senator.” It has many more than one in practice of course.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 8:59 am

    @sdhays:

    She bet on Biden failing and she’s not very bright so it was a bad bet. Most of the contrarians bet on Biden failing, which is fine, but to continue to behave as if the public has rejected Biden and the Democrats is now delusional. It didn’t happen. The antiwoke wave never materialized. I know they’re devasted by their midterm losses  but they read the public wrong.

  52. 52.

    topclimber

    December 9, 2022 at 9:00 am

    Does AZ do runoffs? ETA sdhays says no.?​
    ​
    ​

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    December 9, 2022 at 9:00 am

    In my dreams, at his next presser, in response to a question about Sinema, Uncle Joe goes:

    “Well, I think it’s pretty obvious that she enjoys attention, and she’s welcome to it as long as she continues to support the kinds of policies, legislation, and judges that the majority of Arizonans and Americans want.  Let’s see, across the next couple of years, who her biggest supporters and donors are – that’ll tell the tale, right champ?  Next question.”

  54. 54.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:02 am

    @Spanky:

    She’s given the Arizona Democrats a chance to spend 2 years running against her. Will they do that? 

    I don’t know if they have to.
    A lot of the party there hates her and has only tolerated her, for years. If I was a Dem there, I would advise that everyone just keep their powder dry and not rise to her bait. Don’t dive in and dogpile her right now, let the Republicans do that.

  55. 55.

    different-church-lady

    December 9, 2022 at 9:02 am

    @Stacib: This is stunning! Stunning! In it’s utter predictability!

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:02 am

    @Spanky: I blame Obama.

  57. 57.

    Another Scott

    December 9, 2022 at 9:02 am

    All I can groggily say is if she was a real west coast Senator she would not have done this shit at 4a out here. https://t.co/lTsxR5LrKD

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) December 9, 2022

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  58. 58.

    p.a.

    December 9, 2022 at 9:03 am

    A shame we don’t have a short, defined election season, otherwise there’s no reason the Arizona Dem Party could not imply that Sinema’s voting record over the next 2 years would greatly influence their decision to run a candidate in ’24.  It would invert the pressure point.  But, campaigns are continuous.

  59. 59.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:03 am

    @topclimber: They do not do runoffs like Georgia does, you can win with just a plurality.

  60. 60.

    Albatrossity

    December 9, 2022 at 9:03 am

    Some excellent BJ-worthy snark here, re Senator Enema

  61. 61.

    beef

    December 9, 2022 at 9:06 am

    If Sinema were a plant, a paid spoiler who got lucky, like Tulsi Gabbard, what would she be doing differently?

  62. 62.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:08 am

    @Layer8Problem:

    I just read that she’s a BYU graduate.  That’s some mavericking. 

    Yeah, she’s an ex-Mormon (aka “Formon”). She acts like it…..the people who were raised in the church and leave as adults often have this LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEE quality, and the women try being “glamorous” and “flashy”. She totally fits.

    Arizona has a lot of Mormons and Formons. The Phoenix East Valley is the second-largest LDS community in the world. Sinema (and Jeff Flake before her) come from that community, that’s part of why they won.

  63. 63.

    janesays

    December 9, 2022 at 9:11 am

    @Paul W.: She doesn’t need to peel that much off to royally screw everything up. If she can snag just 5-8% of the vote, that will be enough to give the seat to a Republican.

    We need to bribe the shit out of her to keep her from running as an indie spoiler in two years.

  64. 64.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 9:12 am

    @Suzanne: I would have preferred her to lose in the Democratic primary. This way, she can run in the general.

  65. 65.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 9:14 am

    @Matt McIrvin: The only way she can get re-elected (in that scenario) is if the Repubs are amicable and nominate a complete loser (even worse than Masters).

  66. 66.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:14 am

    Ella Irwin
    @ellagirwin
    ·8h
    Replying to @thetomzone
    Correct. For security purposes, the screenshots requested came from me so we could ensure no PII was exposed. We did not give this access to reporters and no, reporters were not accessing user DMs.

    Boy, she better hope so. If Elon Musk gave three Right wing political operatives (Taibi, Weiss and a nutty Right wing anti-trans activist) access to Twitter users private information (as the political operatives claim) then Twitter is in a lot of trouble.
    I personally would get off Twitter and try to delete any information Musk could gain access to if I were a prominent liberal. This is a political witch hunt and the “reporters” are completely dishonest Right wing hacks.

  67. 67.

    janesays

    December 9, 2022 at 9:15 am

    @sdhays: Now Arizona Democrats have to either game-plan how to somehow defeat both her and a Republican or hold their noses again and just support her.

    Option Three: Give her whatever the hell we need to in order to get her not to run in 2024.

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 9:15 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Arizona Democrats will “dare” to run somebody. This situation is not like that of Utah Democrats who, at their convention in April, endorsed Independent Evan McMullin for Senate.

    And even if Sinema runs as an Independent- which is not at all a certainty- I would not count the Democratic candidate out.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:18 am

    Orin Kerr
    @OrinKerr ·The more important question: Is Twitter civilly liable for giving private communications to Weiss? If they disclosed private user DMs, yes, they probably are liable, under 2702 and 2707.

    Another question is what it means for Twitter in the EU, where they take privacy seriously and regulate. Musk’s cavalier disregard of his users and hiring of political operatives is one thing in the US where regulators are weak and often compromised/corrupted. What does Twitter do in a real regulatory environment given how reckless they are with private information of users?

  70. 70.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 9:18 am

    @Kay: The public were supposed to reject the Democrats as “too woke” – the NYTimes told them this would happen!

    It was funny, in the last “Real Time” podcast I listened to Maher admitted that he was wrong about how badly he thought the Democrats were going to lose, but he stubbornly refuses to admit that he was wrong about “wokeism”. I’m sure he’ll spend the next two years bellyaching about it and saying the Dems need to get away from those issues even after having that proven wrong in this election! These old “anti-woke” warriors are wedded to their narratives like members of a cult; no amount of evidence will ever convince him that he’s wrong about it.

  71. 71.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 9:21 am

    @Kay: This was the most on-point comment I saw on the latest “Twitter Files” bullshit:

    Bari Weiss is literally in the middle of a breathless "Twitter Files" thread describing Twitter implementing the exact policy that Elon Musk said he was going to institute three weeks ago. pic.twitter.com/3QVGthTIXt

    — Will Stancil (@whstancil) December 9, 2022


    I’m not sure if it’s stupidity or hypocrisy, but I’m leaning toward the former.

  72. 72.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    December 9, 2022 at 9:23 am

    Krysten Sinema read the room; saw everyone staring, aghast; and concluded “it’s  all about me.”

  73. 73.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:23 am

    @janesays:

    Give her whatever the hell we need to in order to get her not to run in 2024. 

    I genuinely think that she is looking to get rich and famous. If that opportunity presents itself in the form of another job offer (on “The View”?)…..I think she’s looking to not run, and will only do so if she doesn’t get a better option. She’s not unlike Palin, also not unlike Elizabeth Holmes.

  74. 74.

    Nettoyeur

    December 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: She needs that second (maybe third) million in GOP grift so she can retire and spend a decade as a Fox “contributor” or on the wingnut welfare circuit.  She  and many other Americans arr more likely to be motivated by financial gain than principles or beliefs. 

  75. 75.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @Soprano2:

    Maher admitted that he was wrong about how badly he thought the Democrats were going to lose, but he stubbornly refuses to admit that he was wrong about “wokeism”

    They should stop making their cranky middle aged conventional views the views of the public.
    I too am older now and also quite conventional. I’m not an insane egomaniac though, so I don’t pretend that I represent “America” like these fucking clownish elites do.

    Bari Weiss and Elon Musk want to lecture me about what people in “the heartland” think? What goddammned nerve. And to insist it’s true even after they lost big in MI and WI and PA! They lost in suburbs, they lost in cities, they even lost support in rural areas with the antiwoke panic. How long are they planning on basing careers on it?

  76. 76.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @janesays: Kyrsten, is that you?

  77. 77.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:25 am

    @Soprano2:

    These old “anti-woke” warriors are wedded to their narratives like members of a cult; no amount of evidence will ever convince him that he’s wrong about it. 

    White dudes often seem to think that the things that matter to them matter to us all.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 9:26 am

    Sinema is I-Scorpion.

    I have faith in Arizona Democratic voters.  They are not going to get fooled again by her.  They got played.

    I hope we find another good topic to discuss today.  Why give this attention whore so much of it?

    Chaos agent is right.  Which is why she will be unelectable to Democrats, going forward.

  79. 79.

    VeniceRiley

    December 9, 2022 at 9:26 am

    Relieved I got married in California.

    Sinema is trash.

    In England Green and pleasant

    Only Rishi has cash.

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @Nettoyeur:

    OMG.  That might be a misspelling, but it is so perfect.

    wingnyt welfare circuit

    I do think such a thing exists, and now it has a name.

  81. 81.

    zhena gogolia

    December 9, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @Elizabelle: This wasn’t even the topic of the OP.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:29 am

    @Soprano2:

    The middle aged antiwoke elites thought they would age out from being hipster urbanites and become the new conventional wisdom. The new wise men and women. But black people and young people came along and spoiled their natural ascension and promotions with “wokeism!”

    They are OWED the right to set US norms and culture! Why, most of them inherited this right like a DEED from their parents. Black people writing about US history is not the natural, elite order. THEY say what US history is.

  83. 83.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 9, 2022 at 9:30 am

    @Kay: She wasn’t getting enough attention.

    Yes, this. I was think Sinema would pull party switch when she couldn’t force every vote to be about her.

  84. 84.

    Anyway

    December 9, 2022 at 9:31 am

    @janesays:

    Give her whatever the hell we need to in order to get her not to run in 2024.

    Does she want to be an ambassador?

    For me the fact that she started as a Green says it all. Greens are not Dem-allies.

  85. 85.

    Joe Falco

    December 9, 2022 at 9:32 am

    Democrats continue to do the good work of moving the country in the right direction, often cleaning up the messes left by the Disloyal Opposition. Despite showboats wanting to showboat, we gotta plenty to feel good about today and going forward. I’m going to focus on that good and not let the rest determine my mood for today.

  86. 86.

    Quinerly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:32 am

    @Kay: and continue to read the public wrong and continue to underestimate Biden.

  87. 87.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 9:33 am

    Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊

  88. 88.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:34 am

    @Anyway:

    Does she want to be an ambassador? 

    I think she wants to be a celebrity.

  89. 89.

    H.E.Wolf

    December 9, 2022 at 9:34 am

    Look at us, giving an attention hog a whole lot of attention. That’s playing the hog’s game with them.

    Why bother to sour our stomachs on that swill, when we have a victory to celebrate with our LGBTQIA+ friends and allies?

    Felicitations to all whose lives will be happier and more secure with the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:35 am

    @Soprano2:

    I do have a cranky old person complaint about Zoomers though. It’s the disconcerting lack of response to my questions. I feel they have rejected the social rules that say you have to respond when someone speaks to you and tipping your head like a friendly Golde Retriever hearing a high noise and staring isnt a response. It’s not mean or unpleasant, it’s just not a response.

    I almost envy them that they have decided they do not have to follow this social norm, they do not speak if they think the question isn’t worthy, but it’s also bizarre and probably not going to fly at work.

  91. 91.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 9:35 am

    @zhena gogolia: Open thread, so here’s an open thready question for a fellow viewer of The Crown: I heard a snippet of an interview with a royal correspondent yesterday in which she complained that The Crown insinuates Prince Philip had an affair with Penny Knatchbull. I thought the series went out of its way to suggest that there was no affair — they portrayed it as more like a platonic soulmate relationship. What is your take?

  92. 92.

    O. Felix Culpa

    December 9, 2022 at 9:35 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The buzz would be wrong on the merits/effectiveness. How would that “strategy” work in real life? But then, Sinema might not be completely dialed into the world as it is.

  93. 93.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 9:36 am

    @Suzanne: I really think with Maher it’s all about how young people don’t laugh at the jokes he told 30 years ago, so he thinks they have no sense of humor and is personally offended by it. He talks about it on almost every show, how “wokeism” is ruining America, how comedians can’t go onto college campuses anymore, etc. He rarely has any liberal on his show who will openly challenge him about “wokeism”.

  94. 94.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:36 am

    @Suzanne: Yeah, she’s an ex-Mormon (aka “Formon”).

    When I was growing up, they were refferred to as “Jack Mormons”.

  95. 95.

    JanieM

    December 9, 2022 at 9:37 am

    Just got up, haven’t read the comments yet, but I love the headline. It could be a rotating tag: “Love is love, but paperwork matters.”

  96. 96.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 9:37 am

    @Kay: Boy, you’re right about all of that!

  97. 97.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 9:37 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: I think Sinema loses no matter what, but she might be able to make the Republicans win and then blame it on the Democrats.

  98. 98.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    December 9, 2022 at 9:38 am

    @Stacib:

    Yup, and now she can be opposed by a Democrat when she’s up to be replaced.

    She just made it easier to replace her Green party ass.

  99. 99.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:39 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I have faith in Arizona Democratic voters.  They are not going to get fooled again by her.  They got played. 

    AZ Dems made a Devil’s bargain in supporting her. It sucks.

    She does have a fan base of Mormon mom-types. She does have a reputation from when she was a Congresscritter of good constituent service, and there are people, fairly independent and/or swingy, who really like her. I don’t grok this, but it does exist.

    There are lots of crazy people there.

  100. 100.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Jack Mormons are people who are still ostensibly Mormon but who drink and fuck. Different from people who actually leave the church.

  101. 101.

    stacib

    December 9, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Bingo!  I think she’s all in on screwing the Democrats, and if I were of the conspiracy sort, I would also believe she’s also getting some financial gain out of this.

  102. 102.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Kay: What drives me crazy now is how people feel no obligation at all to listen to their voice mails and then call you back. I’ve left messages on business phones and never received a call back! How can these people get any new business if they never call people back? I told the realtor who I hired to sell my mother’s house how much I appreciated that she answered her phone when I called, because these days so many people don’t. She said she always answers unless it says potential spam.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:41 am

    @Quinerly:

    The state-level wins to me are the real measure because most of the “antiwoke” bullshit is re: state law (really, despite what you hear in campaigns, US Senators have very little to do with police funding or public schools).

    If there were going to be a giant pro-police, pro lock everyone up, anti-public education move Right like the antiwokesters were counting on among the public (not among the NYTimes/Substack writers) it would have happened at the state level elections, and it didn’t. 

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 9:41 am

    @Betty Cracker: I check out Stancil’s account from time to time. A few days ago I happened to see what happened when he lamented the fate of Twitter employees who had helped build the company only to be fired by the new owner.

    There was an immediate dogpile, with a horde of Musk-bros hurling one-sentence jeers, taunts and insults. I felt some sympathy, but I also thought, “Well, Will, maybe the K-Hive wasn’t that bad after all!” (Stancil used to get swarmed by Democrats when he would make a particularly strident attack on less “progressive” leaders. He would posit that this was the “K-Hive,” orchestrated by Neera Tanden or by someone in Nancy Pelosi’s office).

  105. 105.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @stacib: I also detect some turtleprints in this move. Dunno what he could offer over the next 2 years, though.

  106. 106.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @Suzanne:

    “Kyrsten, I can promise, contractually promise, that you’ll be the most prominent person on the next Dancing with the Stars, as long as you don’t run.”

    “Does that mean all the cameras will be on me?”

    “We’ll write that into the contract, ‘All Synema, all the time’.”

  107. 107.

    Nelle

    December 9, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @stacib: from Republicans?  From Putin via Republicans?  We’re getting enough if these characters to have a type…Palin,Tulsa, and Sinema are the big ones.

  108. 108.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @Nettoyeur: She’s already admitted she for sale, we’re just negotiating the price now.*

    * shamelessly stolen from a movie I can’t quite put my finger on

  109. 109.

    Quinerly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @Kay: for sure.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:45 am

    @Soprano2:

    We have a rule at the law office that we return calls by COB same day. Its worked really well for us. We have a Zomer parttimer now and she’s great but she can’t just decide not to respond to questions she deems unimportant. It’s fucking fascinating to me to watch. It’s like the opposite of what women our age do- the explaining. They do NO explaining :)

    In their defense though (and it pains me to say this because I am an older person) it is mostly older people who leave voicemails :)

    They’re sort of right that voicemails are probably going away.

  111. 111.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 9, 2022 at 9:45 am

    @Kay: Black people writing about US history is not the natural, elite order. THEY say what US history is.

    Bit more than that. Academics pretty much rejected the whole Great Man theory that was making history a list of old white guys. That’s how WW2 went from Germany lost because Churchill made a speech to Germany never stood a chance because it didn’t have the food or oil to win the war.

  112. 112.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 9:46 am

    @Soprano2: If ever there is an issue about which rugged common-sense Real American white men in Ohio diners care about, it’s comedians on college campuses getting laughs. I know this keeps me up at night.

    Maher doesn’t get laughs because he isn’t funny.

    “Wokeism” is just not a thing. “Anti-wokeism” is just a shorter term for “I did some shit in the past that I really hope doesn’t go viral because if it does, I’ll get fired”.

    I watch comedy specials all the time. I really enjoy stand-up. There are plenty of people making me laugh without being cruel to marginalized people.

  113. 113.

    Ken

    December 9, 2022 at 9:48 am

    @Elizabelle: I hope we find another good topic to discuss today.

    And another finger of the monkey’s paw uncurls…

  114. 114.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 9:51 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The 1619 project cannot exist! The “free speech” defenders say so! Nothig they do or say hangs together at all coherently. They threw this crappy theory together out of their personal resentment and rigid bitterness and of course it fell apart.

    Elon Musk, their free speech hero, hired three political operatives to monitor his social media company and his employees. Weiss’s job is to rat out Twitter employees for wokeness thought crimes. None of them see the slightest logical problem with this.

    We have low quality elites, I think due to the fact that so many of inherited their positions thru the work of their parents and not their own work.

  115. 115.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 9:51 am

    @Betty Cracker:  I agree.  She seemed a nice person with some intellectual curiosity, Prince Philip looked like someone weary of being married to a representation of Great Britain and desperate for some returned interest.  There was not a hint of physical cheating, at the worst emotional cheating.

  116. 116.

    Ken

    December 9, 2022 at 9:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s the plot of Indecent Proposal, but I don’t think the quote was used in the movie.

    It’s attributed to Churchill, but isn’t everything… 

  117. 117.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    December 9, 2022 at 9:52 am

    Clown dons makeup, puts on a show. I don’t see what the news here is.

  118. 118.

    Sanjeevs

    December 9, 2022 at 9:53 am

    @Kay: The EU Data Protection Commisioner is Irish and may be tempted to go easy on FB and Google as they have their European HQ in Dublin.

    Twitter just closed their European HQ – in Dublin.

  119. 119.

    Citizen Alan

    December 9, 2022 at 9:54 am

    • @Matt McIrvin:  I have been saying it until I’m blue in the face. At heart, Kristen  sinema is  still a God damned Green. The only reason she even ran as a Democrat was to sabotage the party from the inside, and now that that’s impossible she is showing her true colors.
  120. 120.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:54 am

    @Suzanne: Hmmm… did not know that. We had a family friend who (I thought) had left the Mormon Church and she referred to herself as a jack mormon. The things I learn here.

  121. 121.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 9:54 am

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: Much is made of Sinema’s Green Party background. She began her elective career around 2004 as a Democrat, though, and when she won election to Congress she joined the Blue Dog Caucus.

    Ironically, Sinema’s former House Blue Dog colleagues proved much more supportive of House leadership and Presedent Biden than she was in the Senate.

  122. 122.

    Layer8Problem

    December 9, 2022 at 9:55 am

    @Ken:  I had seen it as a George Bernard Shaw.

  123. 123.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    December 9, 2022 at 9:56 am

    The only thing that really makes me shake my head at the BJ community is the fact we seem to consistently underestimate our enemies and in Sinema’s case, frenemies. She may not be a genius, but she’s not stupid. Independent is very on brand for her. It positions her to avoid a primary she would lose if she runs again and if not, it gives her plenty of options for think tank work. She’s bisexual. She could NEVER be a Republican. They don’t want her kind in the party.

    I’ll add that it isn’t just the immigration reform bill that she’s put her stamp on. She also helped broker the compromise that got the Respect for Marriage Act  the GOP votes it needed to pass. Frankly, it makes a lot of sense she would take up that issue.

    And speaking of the Respect for Marriage Act, we celebrated last night. FU Supremes and the MO legislature. We were legally married in a different state, so our marriage is now protected by this new law. The haters can cry like Hartzler.

  124. 124.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Maybe she was trying to tell you something.

  125. 125.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Anyway: I would think there might be certain countries that she would enjoy being ambassador to. Unfortunately, most of them probably require a real diplomat.

    Maybe ambassador to Monaco?

  126. 126.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 9, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @Anyway: Does she want to be an ambassador?

    Exactly.  Pick someplace vaguely glamorous but strategically unimportant.  Monaco?

  127. 127.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @Ken:  LOL.  So true.  Be careful what you wish for.

    Happy Friday, jackals.  I am going to be happy that Senator Raphael Warnock won his fourth (!) successive election, that Democrats passed the Respect for Marriage Act with some Republican support, that Brittney Griner is on US soil (San Antonio, specifically, at the moment), and that we have “dull” Joe Biden as President.  Getting good stuff done.

    Oh.  And 17 felony convictions for TFG’s company. The renegade Florida judge getting slapped down, hard. And a Special Counsel with “resting conviction”/”resting executioner” face, working relentlessly in the shadows.

    Last night’s thread on that was great.

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 9, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @Paul in KY: ​
      Great minds…. Or deranged minds…. You pick.

  129. 129.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Paul in KY: I was thinking North Korea.

  130. 130.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Kay: They’re sort of right that voicemails are probably going away.

    Texting is taking it’s place. Good thing I’ll be dead soon, because I don’t text.

  131. 131.

    zhena gogolia

    December 9, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Joe Falco: Thank you!

  132. 132.

    zhena gogolia

    December 9, 2022 at 10:00 am

    @Betty Cracker: I guess they technically had him say, “I’ve done nothing wrong.” But they certainly played up their “chemistry.”

    ETA: Have to go now but will think about it some more.

  133. 133.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    December 9, 2022 at 10:03 am

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: She may not be a genius, but she’s not stupid. Independent is very on brand for her. It positions her to avoid a primary she would lose if she runs again

    If this is actually an attempt to avoid a D primary and coerce the Ds to make her the de facto nominee without a challenge, that’s just profoundly unethical.

    Ds need a real nominee.

  134. 134.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:04 am

    @sdhays: She doesn’t want to be a Democrat. Fine. Then she can do the lifting of getting all her running materials ready.and prepped. There is a lot that goes into running for office that the Party takes care of. She has never seemed to me the kind that actually wants to work. She is lazy. So, let her lazy azz do all the work of getting her azz on a statewide ballot as an Independent.

  135. 135.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 9, 2022 at 10:04 am

    @Elizabelle: Mr DAW looked at that picture of Jack Smith and said, “Him? He looks like a hit man.”

  136. 136.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @Ken: I’ve never seen Indecent Proposal but I’m certain I heard it in a movie. This is gonna drive me nuts all day.

    As to Churchill saying it first (if he did) I can only quote another line somebody far more famous than I once uttered: “Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.”

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @Qrop Non Sequitur:

    Indeed we do. We actually need a Democratic Party candidate

    And, they should be announcing right now

  138. 138.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    The only thing that really makes me shake my head at the BJ community is the fact we seem to consistently underestimate our enemies and in Sinema’s case, frenemies. 

    Agreed.
    Arizona is still the place that, up until half an hour ago, elected John McCain and Jon Kyl 500 times in a row.
    Kyrsten Sinema put together a winning coalition in very purple places, multiple times, when many other good candidates tried and were not successful. She won multiple primaries against candidates who would have been far superior to her. Stop underestimating her.
    I do think a Democrat — a real one — can win. I do think some stars need to align for that to happen.

  139. 139.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 9, 2022 at 10:06 am

    @Betty Cracker: ​
      Not z_g, but I think they play it as a friendship that is perceived by the press as an affair. Then again, I have been more friendly to Philip as played in The Crown than most people.

  140. 140.

    Nicole

    December 9, 2022 at 10:06 am

    @Kay:

    They should stop making their cranky middle aged conventional views the views of the public.

    Yah, this.  I’m cranky and middle-aged now, too, and the Gen Z and the one after (Alpha?) really have their heads on better than we did/do.  I really think it’s due to social-emotional learning becoming a part of curriculums in a lot of schools.  Who woulda thunk it, that playing well with others is a skill that can be TAUGHT, not just something some people are instinctively good at and some aren’t?

  141. 141.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 10:06 am

    I heard one of the talking heads on Morning Joe discussing Brittney Griner’s release refer to Paul Whelen as a “retired” Marine.

    I do not think the Marines would agree to that characterization. In fact, it causes me to wonder why MSNBC would use such a term so opposite to how he was drummed out.

  142. 142.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 10:09 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Hit man.  Indeed.

    As a jackal pointed out last night, that image will not be lost on TFG.

  143. 143.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 10:10 am

    @Kay: Maybe, but what am I supposed to do when someone doesn’t answer the phone? Text them, so they can ignore my text too? The last one I knew I was calling a cell phone, and I actually asked her to text me or call me, and I got NOTHING. I’m not sure what these people think is going to happen when they don’t contact people who want to do business with them.

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 10:11 am

    @Qrop Non Sequitur: I do not think Arizona Democrats will be “coerced” in this matter. They will nominate a “real” Democrat for Senate in 2024, and he will be a strong and well funded candidate.

    And like I and others have said,  there is a good possibility that Sinema will not run again.

  145. 145.

    Cameron

    December 9, 2022 at 10:13 am

    @janesays: Isn’t she supposedly interested in wine?  If some sugar daddy set her up with a vineyard and fermentation/bottling op, maybe she’d go away.  Whole thing located in another country, preferably.

  146. 146.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 10:13 am

    @Spanky: ​I was 10, maybe 11 yo and had yet to fully embrace my own awakening from Catholic dogma.

  147. 147.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 10:13 am

    @Layer8Problem: Okay, thank you! I was wondering if I was being too gullible. :-) (In real life I have no idea what happened nor any particular interest, but I am hooked on the series.)

  148. 148.

    Another Scott

    December 9, 2022 at 10:14 am

    @Spanky: It’s one of those “clip / magazine” things that some people get upset about (because they don’t have enough drama in their lives or something).

    Quora.com:

    The US Marines make a MUCH bigger deal of the point when they have earned graduation from their boot camp. They get a fancy ceremony at which they are told that from this point forward they will forever be Marines.

    Being a Sailor was something I earned, but the ceremony about it was not all that big a deal.

    Being a Marine is something they earn, and it is something they make a big deal of.

    Once you’ve earned being a Marine, that’s something only you can take away from yourself. So the only former Marines are the ones who got convicted of a crime bad enough to get one of the types of Discharge that count as “other than honorable”. They had to do something that got them kicked out.

    Once you’re earned being a Marine, completing your hitch and taking your Honorable Discharge does not change the fact that you earned the title of Marine.

    Whelan is in one of those “other than honorable” categories, but the press usually ignores nuance – especially the political press…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  149. 149.

    Mousebumples

    December 9, 2022 at 10:16 am

    @Betty Cracker: only a few episodes in, but I definitely get a friendship/bonding over shared loss vibe from their relationship to this point, fwiw.

  150. 150.

    Nicole

    December 9, 2022 at 10:19 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I enjoy the show, too, so I’m happy to chime in- I thought it was clear it was platonic, also.  I thought it was more the writers trying to show emotional distance between Elizabeth and Philip; that as they’ve grown older, they have their separate lives.  Which, for older couples, I think can make for more dramatic weight than physical fidelity.

    I enjoy the show a lot, but I look at it as a fictionalized dramatization, so I don’t take anything on it as gospel.  I mean, not that I spend a lot of time thinking about the British royals anyway; as I’ve said before, it scratches my Dallas itch like nothing else. ;)

  151. 151.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 10:19 am

    @Geminid: I don’t follow Stancil, but he gets retweeted into my timeline occasionally, and IIRC, he seems right more often than wrong, but that’s probably selective retweeting by mutuals. That said, there is a fringe K-Hive element that is obnoxious as fuck, IMO, so I can see where anyone might find them annoying. But orchestrated by Tanden or Pelosi staffers? That’s deranged.

  152. 152.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 10:19 am

    @Suzanne: I think a lot about how many old liberals who grew up in the first half of the 20th century, including some who were humorists or satirists in some way, were utterly baffled by the 1960s counterculture, and some swung hard right because of it. I think this kind of thing is part of the lifecycle of comedy–the stuff you specialized in in your prime ages out and you simply don’t understand what is funny today, and you get cranky.

    It was particularly striking when Chris Rock got on the “you can’t make jokes any more!” bandwagon.

  153. 153.

    Kay

    December 9, 2022 at 10:19 am

    @Soprano2:

     I’m not sure what these people think is going to happen when they don’t contact people who want to do business with them.

    Maybe it’s like a “correction” to our generations (female) problem of endlessly explaining and apologizing for everything. I had to train myself out of it. I was definitely raised, as a girl, to defend everything I said or did and explain everything. It’s why I kind of admire the Zoomer women- they’re like “explain why your’e talking to me at all” :)
    The “respond by COB” works as customer service but it also works for the employee. It means you start fresh the next day, you’re not DRAGGING tasks week after week. They will end up liking it or I wil tell them they should like it – same thing! :)

  154. 154.

    Ken

    December 9, 2022 at 10:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It sounds very Groucho Marx, but there’s no way the censors of his era would have let that pass. Though imagining him saying it to Margaret Dumont…

  155. 155.

    Steeplejack

    December 9, 2022 at 10:20 am

    Here’s an alternate topic for those tired of Kyrsten Sinema: “Louise Penny shares five books that inspired her.”

  156. 156.

    James E Powell

    December 9, 2022 at 10:21 am

    I hold voters in Ohio and Wisconsin responsible for this mishegas.

  157. 157.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:21 am

    @Kay:

     

     I love how she couldn’t concentrate on her ONE workplace contribution (her alleged immigration reform law) for more than a week.
    She wasn’t getting enough attention.

     

    you ain’t never lied, Kay.

  158. 158.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Another Scott: I guess he got a “bad conduct discharge,” which is one step less bad than “dishonorable” in severity but is actually the result of a court-martial.

  159. 159.

    Spanky

    December 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Another Scott: Yeah, but this “nuance” is subtle as a baseball bat.

  160. 160.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think the idea is that she’s threatening to throw the election to the Republicans if the Democrats run a candidate at all–so she can anoint herself as the de facto Democratic nominee without having to win a primary, through a mutual assured destruction threat

     

    Phuck that shyt.

    An actual Democrat can be in that slot. Period.

  161. 161.

    Cameron

    December 9, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Kay: Don’t speak to them directly.  Call them on their phones, even if you’re standing right next to them.  That’s communication they can recognize.

  162. 162.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 9, 2022 at 10:23 am

    No World Cup thread?

  163. 163.

    Mo Salad

    December 9, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @Ken: ​
     My favorite “got it past the censors” joke is Curly Howard’s “At first if you don’t succeed, keep on sucking ’til do suck seed.”

  164. 164.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 9, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @James E Powell: ​
      Just come out and say it. You blame me. Bastard.

  165. 165.

    Another Scott

    December 9, 2022 at 10:24 am

    Yet more good news in Wonkette’s Friday Tabs dump:

    There’s a Senate bill to make PACER free and it’s nerd-stuff but it is absolutely unconscionable that court records aren’t free already. Anyway, somehow it will also reduce the deficit? That’s what CBO says, per Reuters, I don’t know, I only read the headline.

    I’m having a flashback to those days years ago when Groklaw would devote a mountain of hours and calories to transcribe stuff on Pacer from the SCO Unix / Linux / IBM court battles. PJ probably could have generated a few Bitcoin all by herself with all the work she did on that – just because Pacer was behind a paywall…

    And it cuts Teh Deficit?? OMG, the GQP will be all over that. Right? Right??!!ONE

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  166. 166.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 9, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @Ken: It does sound like Groucho, and now that you mention it I did just rewatch a Night at the Opera and Duck Soup recently. I’ll bet it was NatO.

  167. 167.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 10:27 am

    @Steeplejack:   Thank you!  And it’s a CBC link.

    Grateful to you for the Word Master link.  Got me through yesterday.  Got to a 45-game streak.  (My personal best is 63 in a row.  I love that Word Master lets you binge.)

    Who else has not since clicked on the FTF NY Times?

    I am going for a second day in a row.  Trying to make this habit-forming, for some period of time.  Suspect management is watching clicks and engagement.  Not getting any from me.

    Wonder if others are doing the same?

  168. 168.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 10:28 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s an old joke–I think there was a period when it showed up in many movies almost simultaneously.

  169. 169.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 10:28 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: & @Mousebumples: Sounds like we agree.

    @Nicole: Good point about emotional distance as couples age. Years ago, a younger relative declared she LOVED her husband but didn’t LIKE him, and I thought to myself, they’ll never make it. And they didn’t — after divorcing and remarrying and divorcing again. IMO, the secret to a happy marriage is you have to LIKE the other person!

  170. 170.

    Suzanne

    December 9, 2022 at 10:29 am

    @Matt McIrvin: The thing that just astounds me about the old cranky whiners complaining about cancel culture…..there has literally never been more humor. Netflix has tons of comedy specials! There’s memes, and Twitter, and an entire internet subculture around laughter. The people who kind of crafted their self-concept about being edgy are the ones who are struggling, because the edge does move.

    I mean, they could move with it. Or they could get a new schtick.

  171. 171.

    UncleEbeneezer

    December 9, 2022 at 10:29 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Agreed.

    The Sinema thing is very simple. Her calculus is that 1. She can’t win a primary; 2. If she runs as an independent who caucuses with the Dems, another Democrat can’t run bc they would split the vote and give the seat to the Republicans.

  172. 172.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 10:32 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Anne Laurie scheduled it, but the sucky WP scheduling system failed. It’s there now.

  173. 173.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 9, 2022 at 10:34 am

    @Betty Cracker: Thanks.

  174. 174.

    Steeplejack

    December 9, 2022 at 10:38 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Have you tried Waffle? Different kind of game but equally addictive (to me).

    I found it surprisingly easy to stay off the NYT site yesterday, after admittedly doing the Wordle at 12:01 a.m. Someone’s got to be the last one across the picket line, right?

    I got back on today to do the Wordle and the crossword, but so far nothing else. I did give the Washington Post site more of a workout yesterday.

  175. 175.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 9, 2022 at 10:39 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The logic may be to force the Democrats to run nobody so she can win as an independent, under the reasoning that Sinema is better than a Republican (though I don’t think she’d actually win that way either).

    I agree that she would likely lose that way: the flip side of the reality that she’d only need to take a few percent away from a Dem to kill the Dem nominee is that it would take only a few percent reduced Dem turnout to doom her chances as an independent without a Dem in the race.

    In the meantime, though, assuming she continues to caucus with the Dems, the caucus will have 48 Dems and 3 independents instead of 49 and 2.  BFD.

  176. 176.

    lowtechcyclist

    December 9, 2022 at 10:42 am

    @Quinerly:

    Agent of chaos is an excellent description. Attention seeker.

    I’m just gonna go with ‘dipshit.’

  177. 177.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 9, 2022 at 10:43 am

    @rikyrah: She says she’s caucusing with Dems, so I guess this really does three things (all of them nihilistic or narcissistic):

    1) Gets her headlines and attention, makes her a “special” independent person
    2) Boxes Dems in for 2024: If they run a Dem primary, she splits the vote and guarantees the Republicans a win
    3) Makes it easier to move to Republican in 2024 if Dems do badly.

    Exactly what we’d expect from the last 4 years of her behavior.

  178. 178.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 9, 2022 at 10:43 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    What’s the difference? Is it like having a deeper friendship with your spouse?

  179. 179.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 9, 2022 at 10:44 am

    @lowtechcyclist: I agree that it is a bigger deal for 2024 than now.  I would guess her legislative behavior will remain virtually unchanged.  This is, of course, the big difference between Manchin and Sinema.  Manchin has always seen himself as a Democrat but one who doesn’t always agree with his leadership.  Sinema was a Democrat for convenience.

  180. 180.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 9, 2022 at 10:46 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That’s part of it, isn’t it?

    If you just stick with your spouse because you find them attractive and you’re together and used to each other, that won’t last. You need to like each other and actively enjoy each other’s company or things eventually go sideways.

    Not least because at least one partner will eventually check out. If you’re not interested in the day-to-day of your spouse, you’ll eventually get that interested in someone else. And that’s “emotional” cheating – not caring what happens to your spouse much and not engaging with them, but spending your time and effort on someone else, even if you never technically ‘cheat’. It just means your relationship won’t last.

  181. 181.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:47 am

    @Kay:

    Boy, she better hope so. If Elon Musk gave three Right wing political operatives (Taibi, Weiss and a nutty Right wing anti-trans activist) access to Twitter users private information (as the political operatives claim) then Twitter is in a lot of trouble.

     

    You actually believe that? I don’t. They are that irresponsible.  I bet they did, and they need to be sued.

  182. 182.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Both! :-)

  183. 183.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 10:50 am

    @Spanky: A fella can dream…

  184. 184.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 10:52 am

    @Qrop Non Sequitur: She really needs the Repubs to put up some craptoid that she’s better than (for Repubs). Democrats will put up a nominee and that’s who she will be fighting it out against (in her gambit).

  185. 185.

    Paul in KY

    December 9, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @Spanky: The person who referred to him like that either has an agenda or is woefully unprepared about Mr. Whelan.

  186. 186.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 10:55 am

    @MisterForkbeard:

    2) Boxes Dems in for 2024: If they run a Dem primary, she splits the vote and guarantees the Republicans a win

     

    We won with a Democrat in 2022.

    2024 will be a Presidential year.

    I’m willing to take a chance on an actual Democrat in 2024.

     

    Like I said..there’s a lot that goes into running for office. A lot that the party helps with.

    Even phucking Bernie uses the Democrats to run and then does that independent shyt.

     

    This ain’t Utah.

    There is no reason why the Democratic Party can’t find an actual Democrat in Arizona. A Democrat – not a leftist, that  can’t go out, say that I represent Democrats in Arizona, and keep it moving.

  187. 187.

    M31

    December 9, 2022 at 10:56 am

    I read there is a requirement for signatures to get on the ballot as an I in AZ — not that many, 40K?

    But you do need at least a bit of an organization that isn’t a shitshow to make that happen, so I’m saying 50/50 she fucks it up. Outsources it to some typical grifters and they end up with 3/4 of the signatures being Mickey Mouse, Hugh G. Rection, and WeedLord BonerHitler

  188. 188.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 11:01 am

    @rikyrah:  I agree with you.

    Sinema is not trustworthy, and 2024 is a presidential election year.

    Plus, GOP might be even more radioactive once the actual prosecution of misdeeds by TFG and his allies/codependents begins.

    Not going to be predisappointed here.  I like our chances.

  189. 189.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 11:03 am

    @Steeplejack:  I’ll try Waffle again, now.  Tried it yesterday; didn’t totally get the rules.  Will play around with it.

    Am also addicted to The New Yorker crossword, and its Name Drop game (guess the famous person, dead or alive, in 6 clues and 90 seconds).

  190. 190.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 11:04 am

    New thread up.  Mistermix.  About the Arizona scorpion.

  191. 191.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    December 9, 2022 at 11:06 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think this kind of thing is part of the lifecycle of comedy–the stuff you specialized in in your prime ages out and you simply don’t understand what is funny today, and you get cranky.

    A whole lot of comedy is based on shared assumptions about the world. That is why someone like Ann Coulter was considered witty by right wingers back in the day, while people like me were scratching their heads. Right wingers have whole lot of assumptions about the world and liberals in particular that are ridiculously inaccurate. In addition, as generations change, so do assumptions about the world and cultural references. Suddenly, the material these comedians have is only funny to old timers like them.

  192. 192.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 11:11 am

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Those tears were probably real, too. People like Hartzler honestly believe that gay people becoming full citizens with full rights threaten them somehow, I guess by keeping their conservative Christian viewpoint from dominating our culture.

  193. 193.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 11:12 am

    @Elizabelle: And that Republican jerk in FL who sponsored the “Don’t Say Gay” bill resigned after he was indicted for several crimes.

  194. 194.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 11:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: But they won’t text you, either!

  195. 195.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 9, 2022 at 11:14 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: This looks right. And we need every vote we can get after our challenging Senate cycle in ‘24. If we can handle caucus members Sanders and King as Indies, we can handle one more.

    So AZ, get ready to hold your noses and vote Simena in ‘24!

  196. 196.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    December 9, 2022 at 11:16 am

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Makes it easier to move to Republican in 2024 if Dems do badly.

    She’ll never be a Republican. The GOP redline is homosexuality. They will work with her, but she will never be welcome as a member of the party. She isn’t conservative, white, male Manchin.

  197. 197.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 9, 2022 at 11:17 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Manchin is also a relic of an older Democratic Party in a state that is now so red that the only viable alternative to him would be a full-bore MAGA Republican. The strategic situation is kind of unambiguous.

    Sinema is in a purple state whose other Senator actually is a proper Democrat. So she seems much more expendible–unless she can maneuver in such a way as to shank the Democratic Party if they dump her.

  198. 198.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    December 9, 2022 at 11:20 am

    @Soprano2:

    Those tears were probably real, too.

    Yes, they were. They think accepting gay people turns America further from God and God’s special blessing. Plus, if it is more accepted, then their kids won’t have a straight marriage and kids before coming out and traumatizing everyone. Christian white people have a duty to reproduce according to these people.

  199. 199.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 11:22 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): For long-haul relationship happiness, I think it’s really important to enjoy each other’s company and have some common interests. You don’t need any of that to fall in love though! I’ve known people in durable marriages that don’t seem to enjoy hanging out with each other, but I wouldn’t really call them happy. It seems more like they stick it out due to habit, religion, for the sake of the children, etc.

  200. 200.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 11:23 am

    @Soprano2:   yes indeed.

  201. 201.

    frosty

    December 9, 2022 at 11:33 am

    @Elizabelle: Re: Resting Executioner face. I realized last night that I got the era right: US 1800s, but the character wrong. It wasn’t a movie actor. It was Sherman

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

    (Apologies to Aussie Sheila for bringing this up again)

  202. 202.

    Elizabelle

    December 9, 2022 at 11:38 am

    @frosty:  Yes.  And Smith will have been a student of history.

  203. 203.

    Captain C

    December 9, 2022 at 11:40 am

    @Albatrossity: The first ad when I pulled up that article was for a toxic couples horoscope test (whatever data mining thing that is).

  204. 204.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 11:46 am

    @Betty Cracker:  Mr. Stancil is a late-thirties or 40ish man who works at the University of Minnesota as a metro policy researcher and is a prolific Tweeter, mainly as a critic of Democratic Party leadership.

    My introduction to him  was through sources different than yours. Ragnarok Lobster used to dump on him a lot but now seems to sink his claw into Stancill less often. But the combative Michael Paulauski and Stancil clashed a lot  before the midterms in the Great Democratic Messaging Melee. Stancil got very worked up at how Democrats did not see things as he did, finally typing out a few days before the midterms:

        “Oh well, since there’s nothing we should have done we should just do the same”- democratic party motto.

    ****

    hope Tuesday turns out well but either way, pathetic loser party tbh

    @WillStancil Nov.5 2022.

    I believe Stancil sincerely wants the party to succeed but I my experience with his sycophants makes me believe that he is more or less unknowingly running interference for dirtbag lefties who want the party to fail. I’ve told him so, but he’s not going to respond to this small potato. He concentrates his fire on Matt Yglesias, who looms large in Stancil’s  mind as a Democratic strategist but seems pretty inconsequential to me.

    The funny thing is, when I do see Stancil saying something intelligent about campaign strategy and tactics it’s almost always something I saw his contemporary, Rachel Bitecofer say a year or more ago.

    And while Stancil could learn a lot about analysis and argument from Magdi Jacobs (Mangy Jay), a few months ago he parachuted into her timeline to call her “a dumb shill.” As you can imagine, this got a very fierce response. I remember Jacobs’s mentor at The Editorial Board, John Stoehr, stepping in to tell Stancil “You’re better than this.” I thought that Stoerr might be right on that point.

  205. 205.

    Soprano2

    December 9, 2022 at 11:56 am

    @Kay: I was definitely raised, as a girl, to defend everything I said or did and explain everything.

    How did you train yourself to quit doing this, because I do it all the time and it drives my husband crazy! I’m not even aware I’m doing it unless he points it out to me. I thought it was because my mother was a perfectionist.

  206. 206.

    Betty Cracker

    December 9, 2022 at 11:57 am

    @Geminid: I follow Bitecofer and Jacobs — both are extremely worthwhile, IMO. It’s one of the reasons I’ll be sorry if Musk succeeds in ruining Twitter for good.

  207. 207.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    @Elizabelle: I follow @(((BuffaloMeg))) some (not for word games because I don’t play them). She’s always putting up her results for Nerdle, Antiwordle, Waffle and other such tools of the Devil.

  208. 208.

    Geminid

    December 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Bitecofer has transitioned from political scientist to hands-on campaign professional. Since the midterms she’s had time to do some podcasts that sound interesting, especially one with Tom Bonier, the guy who was reporting this summer on the flood of voter registrations by young people, especially women.

    Like word games, though I do not do podcasts. That’s becouse my phone and I are not on speaking terms (I think it’s my fault).

  209. 209.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 12:18 pm

    @M31:

    I read there is a requirement for signatures to get on the ballot as an I in AZ — not that many, 40K?

     

    If the requirement is 40k, then you need at least 80k, cause I know damn well, the Democrats will be challenging her petitions.

  210. 210.

    rikyrah

    December 9, 2022 at 12:20 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

     

    So AZ, get ready to hold your noses and vote Simena in ‘24!

     

    Hell phucking no.

  211. 211.

    Dadadadadadada

    December 9, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    @Suzanne: I would not rule out the AZ GOP renominating Masters and thus losing a seat they could very easily win.

  212. 212.

    Miss Bianca

    December 9, 2022 at 1:10 pm

    @JMG:

    Sinema is just all performance. She’s the street mime of the Senate.

    Ooh, ouch! That would leave a shameful mark, if Sinema had any shame.

    And to think she squandered all the good will we were willing to grant her as a woman who managed to get elected from AZ as a Democrat! For what reason, only God knows – I’m not sure even Sinema does, to be honest.

  213. 213.

    J R in WV

    December 9, 2022 at 1:18 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Mr DAW looked at that picture of Jack Smith and said, “Him? He looks like a hit man.”

    In the photos of Special Counsel Smith wearing his Hague International Court robes, with purple sash down each front side, he looks a little like an ecclesiastical prosecutor. I wish he could wear those robes on duty here in the states! \

    Powerful look there!

    Puts international monsters in jail forever, under a corner of the prison.

  214. 214.

    Miss Bianca

    December 9, 2022 at 1:28 pm

    @Soprano2: Emails too – I’ve been sending emails to rescue groups and also some breeders about dogs – even filled out an application with one place – and I’ve been blown away by how few of them have *actually responded*. I’m like, “wait – don’t you *want* to place this dog?!”

    So the ones who *do* respond, of course, are the ones I am working with. The free market at work, I suppose – you’re free to ignore me, and I’m free to take my business elsewhere.

  215. 215.

    Miss Bianca

    December 9, 2022 at 1:36 pm

    @Nicole:

    I really think it’s due to social-emotional learning becoming a part of curriculums in a lot of schools.  Who woulda thunk it, that playing well with others is a skill that can be TAUGHT, not just something some people are instinctively good at and some aren’t?

    Why do you think the right wing is now suddenly attacking social-emotional learning curricula? Saying that it LEADS to CRT and “wokeism”, oh noes! Coincidence? I think not.

    I see it in my school system with the right-wing cranks who fulminated against SEL. They just cannot STAND that kids are taught to learn the skills to be nice to each other! It seems to make them lose their fucking shit.

  216. 216.

    Miss Bianca

    December 9, 2022 at 1:42 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Sounds to me like a paraphrase of a quote I first heard attributed to George Bernard Shaw.

  217. 217.

    Another Scott

    December 9, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I think she’s convinced herself that she has the Secret Sauce to succeed outside of party politics.

    She’s single-minded about her approach, and it served her well in 2018. Her Senate campaign kickoff video (3:20) was kinda masterful, if you’re not paying attention and want to put your own interpretation on what she’s insinuating rather than what she’s actually saying. She never says she’s running as a Democrat… Maybe that’s what it took to win in Arizona in 2018. I guess we’ll find out if that’s what it takes for non-astronaut Democrats to win in Arizona in 2024…

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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