🎥Spurs players have their say on England vs France. pic.twitter.com/kV7YCn9c6P
— The Spurs Watch (@TheSpursWatch) December 9, 2022
So, which side brought the cloth of gold?
SportsMole:
It’s Coming Home or Allez Les Bleus will be ringing around the Al Bayt Stadium at the full-time whistle on Saturday evening, as England battle France in their World Cup 2022 quarter-final.
The Three Lions put three past Senegal without reply to advance to the last eight, while the reigning champions overcame Poland 3-1 to keep their hopes of back-to-back titles alive…
A three-game streak without conceding a goal at the World Cup does stand England in good stead, and Southgate could now become the first Three Lions manager in history to lead the team to more than one semi-final, but the most formidable of formidable foes is standing in their way…
France have now reached the quarter-finals of the World Cup in five of the last seven editions – including each of their last three – and Didier Deschamps’s men have prevailed in eight of their last 10 knockout ties against fellow UEFA nations, but they are yet to silence all the critics.
Indeed, Les Bleus are still without a clean sheet at the 2022 World Cup and have actually lost both of their previous meetings with England at the tournament in 1966 and 1982, but more recent history does not favour the Three Lions, who can only boast one win from their last eight against the champions of the world.
Alison Rose
I still don’t know who I’m rooting for. Which actually makes it more exciting!
eclare
Allez les Bleus!
Anyway
France wins the national anthem showdown — why, yes I’ve watched Casablanca many times.
Alison Rose
@Anyway: LOL, you’d get along great with my mom. She’s posted a YouTube clip of that scene on FB probably a dozen times.
eclare
@Anyway: Abso-fucking-lutely. I always think of that scene when I hear Les Marseillaise.
cope
Funny, it hadn’t occurred to me that the lyric would have to change for England’s anthem.
Kent
My brother-in-law is Chilean (as is my wife’s entire family) and he is an epic soccer fan. He was educated at the London School of Economics but now works in Chile for a French bank. He normally roots for Chelsea.
Listening to him and my wife talk this morning he is all-in for France.
Reasons? Argentinians are already insufferable enough, but if they win the cup by beating England they will be beyond insufferable for the next decade. He thinks France has a better chance of beating Argentina than England. And something every Chilean always wants to see is Argentina lose.
They have a house on the coast in Chile that gets FLOODED with insufferable Argentinian tourists every summer. Apparently you learn to give berth to all the cars with the black Argentinian license plates because they are aggressively bad and entitled drivers
If you want to understand the dynamic between Argentina and Chile, imagine how California tourists are viewed in Oregon. Or perhaps how New York tourists are viewed in Vermont.
eclare
@Kent: So they assume Croatia loses? I would focus on the match at hand.
kalakal
Heh. Come on England!
Now I’ve got that off my chest this could be a really good game. France are really good and consistently so, I favour them to win. England can be really good and can be mediocre if they’re the first then it will be a terrific game.
I just hope it doesn’t go to a penalty shoot out, England are always crap at those
Kent
@eclare: The only thing he wants is to see Argentina lose. The rest is irrelevant at this point!
Personally I’m pulling for Argentina v Morocco in the final because I don’t have the genetic Argentina hatred that Chileans have. Plus it would be the first final since 1950 without a European team in the final.
Whomever
@Kent: France vs Morocco would be very symbolic; former colony vs former colonist.
France also has some very good players. Mbappé is amazing.
As to the English I have a theory that circa 1880 or so Queen Victoria disturbed a mummy or something and the entire country got cursed to always lose at every game they invent.
trollhattan
@Whomever: The so-far impenetrable Moroccan defense will get its greatest test if it’s France. I do not think they can wall them off for 90 minutes.
Gin & Tonic
@Kent: I’ve never been to Chile, but been to Argentina a few times, and never had an issue with the driving. Then again, I have lived in Boston, so…
cope
Bummer.
Alison Rose
@cope: It was one of the first things I’d thought of. My very first job many many years ago was working at the Renaissance Faire, and each day, the Queen’s procession would come through, and all the workers would have to run out to the pathway and sing a very abbreviated version of God Save the Queen as she went by. It was a fun time :)
trollhattan
England is in for a long evening.
kalakal
Rats.
Great goal though
Alison Rose
LOL Beckham watching them set up that free kick, probably thinking LEMME DOWN THERE TO TAKE IT.
Alison Rose
Yiiikes. That was nervy.
trollhattan
Foul in the box. Let’s go, ref.
cope
@Alison Rose: Yes, it’s been “God Save the Queen” since I was 2.
Alison Rose
Yeah, the contact was outside the box. Falling down into the box does not a penalty make.
kalakal
Deffo a foul, but not in penalty box.
Got to say England have responded really well to that goal
Alison Rose
Damn, nice save.
kalakal
That was a good save
raven
@Alison Rose: Have you seen this from “The Cheap Detective”?
Omnes Omnibus
Allez les Bleus!
Alison Rose
@raven: LOL I’d never even heard of it. But now that’s gonna have this one in my head :P
eclare
@Alison Rose: The season with Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson is amazing. You don’t know who deserves the Emmy.
Alison Rose
@eclare: I think you’re thinking of True Detective?
Annie
@Alison Rose:
I can’t decide either. Uh-oh, Hernandez is down.
eclare
@Alison Rose: My bad!
raven
@Alison Rose: Oh no, this is a late 70’s parody of Bogie films. You MUST see it!
raven
Full cast
raven
The Cheap Detective (1978) – Running Jokes Montage 1/2
eclare
@raven: Sounds kind of like Murder By Death?
Chacal Charles Calthrop
somewhere the Duke of Wellington is turning over in his grave.
raven
@eclare: Way funnier, I’m dying just from watching the running gags!
“He was a Stuka dive bomber and I was Poland”! The entire cast is hilarious.
eclare
@raven: I will have to check that out! Love Murder By Death.
Mike in Pasadena
Thank you, A.L. you are my sole source for soccer world cup. I don’t follow sports but I’ll follow you anywhere.
Miss Bianca
@raven: Just ordered via the library. Not sure if I ever knew this movie existed at the time it came out, but dang, do I want to see it now!
trollhattan
Jeez, save upon save. Bullets dodged.
trollhattan
Dispatch from California, where we’re having an old-school soaker of a winter storm. Has been years.
Only need three more months of this to get a normal water year. Fingers and toes crossed.
Alison Rose
@raven: It was eclare thinking it was the other show. But that does sound amusing!
eclare
Fuck.
kalakal
Yes!!!!
One more goal for Kane and he’ll be England’s all time goal scorer
Alison Rose
Damn, that was a bullet of a PK. Nice one, Kane! Tied with Rooney.
Alison Rose
@trollhattan: Yep, was coming down all morning here, just let up a bit ago, but looks like it’ll be off and on all day. Hopefully all the dipshits won’t think “yay drought over!!!” now.
Alison Rose
JFC how did they not get a goal off that play.
kalakal
That was a hell of a save.
Barney
@Whomever: The English women are the current European football champions, and the England men are the current ‘world’ (because of course it’s basically the Commonwealth) champions at T20 and 50 over cricket. So it’s not “you’ll never win this sport again”.
kalakal
At this rate Griezmann is going to get sent off
trollhattan
@Barney:
Gets interesting with the UK, as the individual countries play in the World Cup while the UK team plays in the Olympics. e.g., England (ranked 5) and Wales are both playing in next year’s Women’s World Cup. Scotland qualified for the last one.
trollhattan
@Alison Rose: Yeah, “Global warming, I’m freezing!” never goes out of style. I’ll be happy if folks finally turn off their sprinklers.
Sister Golden Bear
In other hooligan news, friends of mine who are participating in the Fresno (CA) Drag Festival (hosted at a Lutheran church BTW) are being threatened by Christofascists protesters. The bigots making a lot of noise because it’s a family friendly drag event with story time. But fortunately, so far event security is keeping them safe.
[Morgan Freeman from “Batman” voice] And if the bigots wanna fuck with drag queens… good luck with that.
Alison Rose
holy heck
eclare
Yay!!!!!!
trollhattan
Woof, what a save.
KevInFrance
Giroud!
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: I guess they figured Fresno was inland enough that they could bring out the bigotry. Repugnant.
trollhattan
That was quick.
Alison Rose
Wowza! Nice pass in.
eclare
Classic
Msb
PLEASE decide the winner without a penalty shoot out – so random and so boring!
trollhattan
Own goal?
Annie
YES! Guess I’ve decided to root for Les Bleus.
Alison Rose
@Msb: I don’t understand how anyone could think a PK shoot-out is boring. It is very much the opposite.
trollhattan
Have to call that.
Alison Rose
That was a dumbass move, jeez. Obvious PK
Sister Golden Bear
@Alison Rose: Bakersfield is as conservative as anything in the Deep South, but Fresno’s not that far behind — at least parts of the population. Even Sacramento has a not insignificant number of racists and Christofascists according to my friends who live there.
billcinsd
@Alison Rose: really close to shoulder to shoulder. and Kane proves the announcers wrong by missing the PK
eclare
Holy!!!!
Alison Rose
Oh wow.
eclare
BTW what a fail
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, I spent a couple of not fun days in Fresno. I couldn’t get back to the Bay fast enough.
billcinsd
@eclare: very Baggioan
billcinsd
Maguire is poor at diving
billcinsd
8 minutes of stoppage time
trollhattan
@Sister Golden Bear:
Don’t conflate Fresno the city with the surrounding area. Costa (D) represents Fresno while the red ring around it includes McCarthy, McClintock, Duarte and Valadeo. Devin Nunes and his cow were redistricted out of their former position, to the east.
NB Not a suggestion to live there, Fresno ain’t all that even if it has grown like a San Joaquin Valley weed.
Alison Rose
Jeeeeeeeez
eclare
This is bullshit
eclare
Leave it to the Brits to fuck up a pk
Annie
Whew! Happy for France, but sad for the English players.
Alison Rose
Look, that was a decent strike, but yikes.
Congrats, France! Now I want Morocco to kick your derrières!
cope
Merde.
trollhattan
England need to work on their free kick game. It cost them this match.
Onward France, the next match will be a true style clash.
billcinsd
and the Moroccan repeat of the Moorish conquests in Europe continues in the semis. Can Kyllian Mbappe be the new Charles Martel and win the Soccer Battle of Tours
kalakal
FuckityFuck
Ahem! Well played France
At least I take consolation that every fucking Little Englander is now having a sad. The bastards would have been insufferable.
I feel very sad for Kane. And the referee was somewhat inconsistent, don’t think he favoured either side, just inconsistent
Anyway
Happy with the result. Didn’t want the effin Brexiters to win. England played well though.
Alison Rose
Agree that England played better overall today. I hope Kane isn’t too hard on himself.
Omnes Omnibus
Woohoo!
YY_Sima Qian
Best quality quarterfinal matches at WC that I can remember. How did Harry Kane miss the PK by that much?
trollhattan
@YY_Sima Qian: Overthought it, I think.
When taking a PK, just be Megan Rapinoe.
Miss Bianca
@Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, back when I was a young pup just learning about gay history and culture, word on the street was always that “leather boys might LOOK tough, but it’s the drag queens who will fuck your shit up.”
raven
@Miss Bianca: Someone will have to explain this to me. There is a “Human Rights Festival” here every year and I am always pushed by the aggressiveness of the drag queen events. I’ve never actually seen any of them fight but they sure run their mouths like they want to/
Kent
And then there is Redding CA which is on a whole different planet of conservatism.
Alison Rose
@Kent: Yep–along the way to Modoc County, where they tried to secede from the state and wanted to call themselves Jefferson. All the eyeroll emojis for that.
zhena gogolia
OT, Stephen Colbert has a pretty funny mockup of a Cosmo cover with Zelenskyy, at 6:40 on this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnylrt8b0k
bookworm1398
@53. I’ve always wondered how that works under the rules? Could the Cherokee nation field their own team if they wanted to? Catalonia?
Sister Golden Bear
@trollhattan: Thanks for the clarification.
Bluebluer dots in red seas….@raven: Basically it means that drag queens have always been highly visible targets, so you have learn to handle aggressive people, either verbally or physically if needed. Many of the older queens used to carry hatpins back in the 70s because hatpins were good for stabbing harassers without them immediately noticing. Apparently it caused a bit of internal bleeding. Most of them also carried straight-razors.
Verbal aggressiveness also tends to be part of the drag persona for most queens. We’re a bit like the court jesters where we can mouth off and say pointed things about society that are normally out of bounds. Ideally, it’s either punching up, or friendly humor, but especially since Ru Paul’s Drag Race, some folks think being queens of mean is how to be successful.
To put it another way, I once saw a queen throw punches at someone who started something with her, while she was performing on the bar top. Never missed a word of her lip sync.
Myself, for a decade I did a regular show in a dive bar in one of the roughest spots in the Tenderloin.* Because the backroom was tiny, I’d get “in face” before the show and also leave the show “in face.” Never once got hassled by the drug dealers, hookers or pimps. Drag queens have a well-earned reputation. (Also helped that I took the attitude that their business wasn’t my business.)
In contrast, leather guys mostly stick to leather bars, except for Pride, and while they might look fearsome, most of them are teddy bears (and bottoms). There’s a meme of a nervous-looking preppy twink on a bar stools surrounded by a dozen leather boys — and the punchline is that the twink is the only top in the bar.
*There was so much crime that the city actually banned parking along one block — which if you know SF parking, that was definitely a nuclear option.
Kent
@bookworm1398: Soccer was invented in the UK and for the first several decades the UK teams were by far the most dominant. Essentially what happened is that Germany and other countries eventually entered into the existing championships which were between England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, etc. And even then they were at a disadvantage because the UK was so dominant. It would have been like Germany entering a German national team into the NFL and still getting its butt beat.
Eventually the rest of the world caught up. But at the start none of them were competitive with the individual UK country teams and would have been crushed by an all-British team
These days I don’t know how much better an all-British team would be compared to the English team. Probably not much better. All the big soccer powers like Germany, France, and Brazil could probably field 2 or 3 teams that would be competitive at the world cup level.
raven
@Sister Golden Bear: When I mustered out from Oakland Army Base they let me go in the middle of the night and I managed to hitch a ride into the city. My buddy was married and I didn’t want to call him until it got to daybreak. I got on a bus and the guy was in the guard and he told me to just stay on it until it got light out. Just back from the Nam or not, you don’t want to fuck around in SF.
raven
@Sister Golden Bear: “Basically it means that drag queens have always been highly visible targets, so you have learn to handle aggressive people, either verbally or physically if needed.”
I get that but these folks seemed to be looking for it. Maybe it’s the same thing. When I had really long hair I’d drop a motherfucker in a heartbeat if they said some shit.
Msb
@Alison Rose
Pk shootouts are boring because they’re like reality show denouements, screwing with everyone’s feelings to get a dramatic finish. Boring because it’s common.
similarly, World Cup finals are boring because they usually feature the Usual Suspects. Fun part of the forthcoming semis is the presence of only 2 Usuals: France and Argentina. Would like Argentines out because they’re goons, but otherwise very happy for anyone still in to win. Nice to see different groups of people happy.
Kent
@Msb: France vs Croatia was the final in the last word cup. So Croatia has history too.
Sister Golden Bear
@raven:
I’m not sure that they’re looking to actually start fights, but historically they were one of the few ways queer folks could punch back at straight society metaphorically speaking. So there’s a tradition of being in people’s faces. So not that different that what you described.
Also, as I mentioned in my updated comment above, unfortunately Ru Paul’s Drag Race has trained a number younger queens that being a queen means being an asshole — forgetting that RPDR isn’t a competition it’s a reality show, and that the producers are both casting people who’ll fight and encouraging them to do so. (I once met someone from the first season and she talked about how the producers were disappointed that they all got along well.)
raven
I guess the thread isn’t totally dead so I want to share a post by a sportswriter who lives here in Athens and was close friends with Grant Wahl. It’s similar to John’s situation.
raven
@Sister Golden Bear: Thanks for the explanation.
Miss Bianca
@raven: wow. I had no idea who this guy was, and now I do. And now I’m sad he’s gone.
Alison Rose
@Msb: The majority of soccer fans disagree, but okay.
raven
@Miss Bianca: It does make one wonder if there is something fishy. More:
US-based sports journalist, who was briefly detained in Qatar for wearing a rainbow shirt as a way of expressing support for LGBTQ, has died. Grant Wahl (49) collapsed on Friday while covering the World Cup quarterfinal match between Argentina and the Netherlands. According to media reports, Wahl suddenly lost consciousness while being seated in the press box at Lusail Iconic Stadium during extra time.
Amir Khalid
@raven:
We may have to wait for an autopsy report to tell us if there’s any there, there.
raven
@Amir Khalid: That’s what Will said.
PAM Dirac
@Alison Rose: I’m not sure how I fit in to most soccer fans, but I don’t find PKs boring, just unsatisfying. I was thinking before this game that this world cup was a lot less interesting to watch than the women’s 2022 Euros. One objective measure of that was none of the Euro 2022 knockout games went to PKs and this world cup has had 4 with 3 games left to play. To me, the women just got on with it and tried to win. I thought maybe it was selective memory or something, so I watched this game looking for what I thought was missing (or at least reduced) in this world cup. I did find this game much more like the 2022 Euros, precise passing in tight spaces, lots of one touch passes, and lots of passes that put the recipient in a position to do something dangerous. It really should have been the final. I really look forward to the Women’s world cup next year and I hope as the attention and money grows in the women’s game, it doesn’t turn into the men’s game.
ian
@Whomever: lots of mummys. Lots. They had a thing called Mummia, which was powdered mummy (yes, not joking) that was used as a multipurpose aspirin, aphrodisiac, and cancer treatment.
Did it ever work? Doubtful, but Victorian era doctors swore by it.
Here is the wiki link
MobiusKlein
@PAM Dirac: as a parent of a goalie, I hated PKs with a passion.So many ways for my kid to be the goat.
Geminid
@Amir Khalid: Qatar is staging this event to burnish its reputation. They’re devoting a whole lot of resources towards ensuring that no one gets assassinated. I don’t think the Qataris are going to do their own assassinating just because a journalist wore a rainbow shirt.
Amir Khalid
@Geminid:
That’s why I think that Wahl most likely died of natural causes.
PAM Dirac
@Geminid: I agree it would be insanely stupid to even increase the chances of a journalists death, but it isn’t like we lack examples of insanely rich people doing insanely stupid things. Besides, death is a part of life, what are you gonna a do?
Geminid
@Amir Khalid: I think you are correct in this matter.
Are you familiar with a Malaysian gentleman named Anuar Abdullah? The Washington Post had a long article about him last month (November 18). He’s worked in the waters off the Perhentian Islands the last few decades, restoring coral. Abdullah has developed a worldwide reputation as a leader in this field.
Some thread when you are around and I have more time I’ll post some excerpts ftom this story. It’s quite interesting.
David 🦃The Establishment🥧 Koch
Wahl was such a great soccer reporter. This was probably his greatest dispatch (photo).
I have to think a death at age 48 is odd considering his wife was a doctor.
Captain C
@Msb: I would love to see them use the old NASL-style shootouts–player vs. goalkeeper, player starts from 35 yards out, has 5 seconds to get the shot off, once 5 seconds is up or the goalie touches it the shooter (edited) can’t legally touch the ball but it can still dribble in. Each team gets 5 then sudden death, just like penalties now.
Or if not that, maybe shots from the arc instead of the spot? Each player gets to choose where on the arc they place the ball, same 5 each then sudden death like now. That would make it a little more challenging and less random.
Captain C
Also, with France’s victory we have a Battle of Tours Derby in the semis!!!!!
James E Powell
@trollhattan:
Every single time I hear Fresno, I hear Ted Baxter. “It all started in a 5,000 watt radio station in Fresno California, a 65 dollar paycheck and a crazy dream.”
Geminid
@PAM Dirac: This is not exactly a situation of an insanely rich gu person likely to do insanely stupid things. The Qatari government punches above its weight diplomatically by applying “soft power” across the Middle East, not through violence. They intend for their many World Cup guests to leave Qatar unharmed.
And it’s not like they need to rub out one of their guests to impress upon Qatari residents the dangers of stepping out of line. Qatari residents already know.
kalakal
@ian: And not just old Egyptian ones. Canary Islands & “contemporary”. There’s a colour called Mummy Brown that was very popular made from… let’s just say it gives you a different take on the pre-Raphaelites. Long predates Vicky
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy_brown
trollhattan
@James E Powell:
Heh, Ted Baxter and raisins.
College buddy was married there, and we stayed at the Hilton, Frenso’s fancy hotel at the time. Next to the Hilton was a Long’s Drugs, to this day the only place I have had to pay a deposit to take a shopping cart out of the store, to the parking lot.
Have been back a few times for track meets, but technically in the tony suburb of Clovis.
Annie
@Amir Khalid:
Agree totally. I read something in which Grant Wahl said he had been working very hard long days — not surprising for a soccer writer at the World Cup — and that he had bronchitis and was taking antibiotics for that. So it may well be that his body wore out. I’m sure we’ve all known, or at least heard of, people who died quite suddenly and turned out to have aneurysms or heart issues they had not known about themselves. I’d like to wait for some evidence before leaping to judgment.
PAM Dirac
@Geminid:
How about their “guest” workers? How about anyone that suggests their “guest” workers should be given a second thought? I don’t know what actually happened to Wahl, but to say that the Qatari government couldn’t possibly be involved because it would be so stupid is not at all convincing to me.
Geminid
@PAM Dirac: I’m not talking about Qatar’s expat workers. I’m talking about their World Cup guests. These are two different things.
PAM Dirac
@Geminid:
And I am talking about their world cup guests that might argue that the Qatari treatment of expats workers, or gays or what ever might not be worth the bribes they gave FIFA. Again, I don’t know what happened to Wahl and I don’t assume Qatati officials had anything to do with it, but to say Qatari officials COULDN’T have anything to do with it ignores hundreds it not thousands of deaths they were quite willing to tolerate to have their propaganda show.
Geminid
@PAM Dirac: I did not say the Qatari government COULDN’T have killed Mr. Wahl. I just said I did not think they did and gave my reasons.
PAM Dirac
@Geminid: Fair enough. And I’m saying that if I were the Wahl family I would want something much more substantial than that conjecture before I would let it be. Maybe that will come quickly, maybe it won’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Covid complications?
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s weird, we watched the first episode of “Slow Horses” and it begins with a guy being assassinated by being touched on the shoulder. It appeared to be a heart attack.
David ⛄ 🎅The Establishment🎄 🦌 🕎 Koch
@raven: that’s a similar plot point in “The Parallex View” and in “The Enemy Within” (a 1994 remake of Seven Days in May)
Paul in KY
Harry will probably make his next 40 PKs. The stress there is unbelievable.