Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

No one could have predicted…

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Good lord, these people are nuts.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / C.R.E.A.M. Open Thread: Trump’s Taxes

C.R.E.A.M. Open Thread: Trump’s Taxes

by | 74 Comments

This post is in: , , ,


Reader Interactions

74Comments

  2. 2.

    Kent

    Kevin Brady (R-TX) warns that releasing Trump’s tax returns could lead to the release of tax returns of Supreme Court Justices

    Yes please!  Can we do that?!?

    And Senators/Congressmen/Cabinet Secretaries next.

    In Norway any citizen can look up the taxes of any other citizen.  Which seems reasonable. You just get notified any time anyone does that

    As a public school teacher anyone can look up my finances.  My exact salary is public record and anyone can look it up.  There are newspapers that put the salaries of every single school teacher in the state into a searchable database.

  4. 4.

    Major Major Major Major

    Sure, ok. Not sure it’ll matter but I can’t think of a way it could hurt.

    In unrelated cash rules everything news: we have sent the wire payment for our new house in Denver and will be closing tomorrow…!!

  8. 8.

    Josie

    @Kent: ​ This. So much this.​
     ETA: These people work for us. We pay their salaries. Why shouldn’t we see their tax returns?

  11. 11.

    rikyrah

    @Kent:

    Kevin Brady (R-TX) warns that releasing Trump’s tax returns could lead to the release of tax returns of Supreme Court Justices

     

    Everytime that I’ve read this, I have been

     

    AND?

    SO?

    BRING IT ON!

  13. 13.

    Tony G

    This nonsense is so boring and tiresome.  If I were emperor, I would decree that the tax returns of ANYONE in a position of political power — i.e., any mayor, town council member or board of education member of even the smallest town — let alone anyone in a position of power in the federal government or a state government — should have their tax returns publicly viewable on a website.  If you’re elected or appointed to a position of power, you lose the right to financial privacy as long as you’re in that position of power.  Worried about being embarrassed by something in your tax returns?  Then stay the hell out of politics.

  19. 19.

    Kent

    From CNBC today

    The amount of income, deductions and taxes paid by or refunded to former President Donald Trump while serving in the White House was detailed in a new report released Tuesday night.

    The report reveals that Trump on his federal tax returns declared negative income in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2020, and that he paid a total of $1,500 in income taxes for the years 2016 and 2017.

    On their 2020 income tax returns, Trump and his wife Melania paid no federal income taxes and claimed a refund of $5.47 million, according to the report by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation.

    My teenage daughter pays more taxes on her summer job at the grocery store than Trump did from 2015 to 2020.

    How this is not a national scandal is beyond me.  From longstanding reporting on the subject we already know that:

    President Joe Biden restored a long-standing presidential tradition Monday by releasing his tax returns, showing that the Bidens paid $157,414 in income tax, or 25.9% of the first couple’s income went to the federal government in 2020. The average federal income tax rate is just over 14%.  The Bidens donated $30,704 to 10 charities last year. The largest gift was $10,000 to the Beau Biden Foundation, a nonprofit focused on child abuse that is named after the president’s deceased son.

    and

    Vice President Kamala Harris and her husband, Douglas Emhoff, also released their 2020 tax filings. They paid a rate of 36.7% on income of $1,695,225 and contributed $27,006 to charity.

  23. 23.

    Splitting Image

    I believe that George Romney was the first presidential candidate to release his taxes and began the tradition that all of them did. Whatever you think of his kid, George did the country a solid there.

    And I think Supreme Court justices, being virtually unaccountable and holding lifetime positions of power, ought to be on the list of people whose taxes should be public.

  26. 26.

    Kent

    Kevin Brady (R-TX) warns that releasing Trump’s tax returns could lead to the release of tax returns of Supreme Court Justices

    Over on LGM, people are positing the theory that this statement was actually a Trump-inspired attempt to strong-arm SCOTUS into making a last minute ruling to block the release of Trump’s taxes.  Which actually kind of makes sense.  That is exactly how the Trump mob machine operates.

  28. 28.

    Edmund Dantes

    Wasn’t there something about Mitt Romney didn’t really release his returns? I feel like he did something weird where he released a high level summary thing when he was running.

    or am I remembering this wrong?

  30. 30.

    Kent

    @Edmund Dantes: Romney eventually released some of his recent tax returns after coming under intense pressure.  But not older ones.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2012/01/23/gIQAj5bUMQ_story.htm

    Mitt Romney offered a partial snapshot of his vast personal fortune late Monday, disclosing income of $21.7 million in 2010 and $20.9 million last year — virtually all of it profits, dividends or interest from investments.

    None came from wages, the primary source of income for most Americans. Instead, Romney and his wife, Ann, collected millions in capital gains from a profusion of investments, as well as stock dividends and interest payments.

    The couple gave away $7 million in charitable contributions over the past two years, including at least $4.1 million to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Romney’s family has for generations been among the Mormon Church’s most prominent members.

    The Romneys sent somewhat less to Washington over that period, paying an estimated $6.2 million in federal income taxes. According to his 2010 return, Romney paid about $3 million to the IRS, for an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent.

  31. 31.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Tony G: And anyone with a net worth or income over some threshold.  Let’s say: $5m/yr income or $100m  net worth.  That’s a vanishingly small number of people, with outsize influence on our government and its policies.  We all deserve to know that they’re not cheating.  To know it, not to have to *trust* it.  And their outsize influence means that they can *buy* government non-enforcement, so we need to ensure that the public can do the digging.

  32. 32.

    Ken

    @Splitting Image: And I think Supreme Court justices, being virtually unaccountable and holding lifetime positions of power, ought to be on the list of people whose taxes should be public.

    And it’s not like there’s any constitutional right to privacy that would prevent this. Right, Justice Alito?

    (If they knock down Griswold, I’d be in favor of having them followed 24/7 by live-streaming camera drones.)

  33. 33.

    Dangerman

    @Josie: Not only see their tax returns but if you wanna be President, you best be able to get a Security Clearance the old fashioned way. No clearance? Fuck you very much. Next?

    Trump would have never been cleared, obviously

    ETA: For my EBI, they knew everything about me but if I was circumsized or not (Hey, FBI! Yes!!). Part if the deal for the job.

  34. 34.

    frosty

    @Kent: When I worked for Arlington County the local paper published the name and salary of everyone who made more than $50,000. It immediately got posted on bulletin boards throughout our office. Followed by groups of us hanging around it saying “He’s getting paid that much???? I do more work! I need a raise!!”

  36. 36.

    Spanky

    Zelensky in the House!

    President Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky entered the Oval Office around 2:15 p.m., according to a White House poolreport.

    “I’m delighted you could make the trip,” Biden told Zelensky.

    …

    President Biden and first lady Jill Biden greeted Zelensky at the White House shortly after 2 p.m. Wednesday. Zelensky stepped out of a black vehicle wearing an olive green sweater and pants. “Welcome back, Mr. President,” Biden told him. Biden placed his right arm around Zelensky’s shoulder, and the three walked into the White House shortly afterward.

  42. 42.

    Kent

    @eclare: @Edmund Dantes:   Didn’t he just release the first two or three pages?  Not the whole thing?

    I don’t know if that is true, but that is where most of the relevant information is:  Your gross income, your net income, how much taxes you paid, how much you contributed to charity, etc.

  43. 43.

    Kent

    @different-church-lady:  INCOME TAX IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION!!1!

    I know you are joking, but I give you the 16th Amendment

    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

  44. 44.

    sab

    @Kent: Amendments don’t count or the Founders would have done it right the first time. Ignore that they allowed amendments.

    Originalist Constitution 101//

  45. 45.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kent: he released two years, 2010 and 2011, which I think is less than most candidates, and “executive summary” type things for a few more years. I remember there were signs of hinkiness in the Mittlets’ trust-fund/s, like the only way the trust/s could have been worth what they were in 2010 was if Mitt had bought Microsoft and Apple (or the equivalents) on the days they were born

  51. 51.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Spanky:

    Zelensky stepped out of a black vehicle wearing an olive green sweater and pants.

    I don’t know why he dresses that way, but I like to believe it’s a signal both to his people, and to the world, that he’s a wartime leader and he won’t forget it for a moment.  We know he knows how to dress well: he did so for his stand-ups, and his visits before the war.  So this is a positive sartorial choice, and I think it’s a great one.

    When Ukraine is at peace, he can do his world tour wearing natty suits, and that’ll be a signal, too.

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    @Kent:

    I know that by tradition and precedent, candidates release their tax returns. I think this is an act of public good faith, but unless you make it a law, I don’t think that people can complain too loudly if candidates do not comply.

    I also think that setting up a blind trust is another act of good faith, one which Trump and his family violated. This rankles me more than the non-release of tax returns.

    RE: The report reveals that Trump on his federal tax returns declared negative income in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2020, and that he paid a total of $1,500 in income taxes for the years 2016 and 2017.  On their 2020 income tax returns, Trump and his wife Melania paid no federal income taxes and claimed a refund of $5.47 million, according to the report by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation.

    My teenage daughter pays more taxes on her summer job at the grocery store than Trump did from 2015 to 2020.

    How this is not a national scandal is beyond me.  From longstanding reporting on the subject we already know that…

    If a person takes advantage of legitimate deductions and tax laws, this cannot be a problem.

    Also, Trump’s supporters will likely applaud this. They hate the federal government and love the idea that their hero was able to stick it to the man and avoid his “fair share” of income tax. The American Dream for some is to get rich and be able to keep it all.

    President Joe Biden restored a long-standing presidential tradition Monday by releasing his tax returns, showing that the Bidens paid $157,414 in income tax, or 25.9% of the first couple’s income went to the federal government in 2020. The average federal income tax rate is just over 14%.  The Bidens donated $30,704 to 10 charities last year. The largest gift was $10,000 to the Beau Biden Foundation, a nonprofit focused on child abuse that is named after the president’s deceased son.

    I admire Biden greatly. He is an honorable man. I respect that he complies with tradition and precedent.

    However, I caution people about making conclusions and judgments based of tax returns. I remember when some morons complained that Al Gore did not give “enough” to charity. But he also had young kids to raise and various family obligations.

    I personally do not care whether political figures, or anybody else, gives to charity, especially to churches. Admitted personal bias here. And sometimes the filthy rich set up charitable foundations and charitable trusts as a way to shelter income.

  55. 55.

    Kent

    @sab: @Kent: Amendments don’t count or the Founders would have done it right the first time. Ignore that they allowed amendments.

    Originalist Constitution 101//

    So no 2nd Amendment then?

  59. 59.

    Alison Rose

    @Chetan Murthy: That is absolutely why he’s dressed as he has all through the invasion. He’s aligning himself with the people, showing that he is no different than any other Ukrainian when it comes to loving their nation and defending it. He told an interviewer recently that he would change clothes when the war ends. When the person asked him when the war would end, he smiled and said “When I change clothes.”

  60. 60.

    eachother

    The tax code has been terribly complicated and dense.  So I suppose were my ‘investments’ causing my involvement with the tax code.  Extreme density.  On purpose I propose.  In favor of those who know how to extract fees jumbo.

    Hours and hours to report $1.  But I learned how to get to $1 and make it count.  All the while, every page of the tax form claiming to conform to the paperwork reduction act.  No amount of money I made, made any of this complexity worth the effort.  Yet, amid much frustration, the absurdity of the paper act made me laugh.

    And so to the gutting of the IRS.  Like Post Office meddling.  Unnecessary inconvenience for ulterior purpose.  And so too the Supreme Court.  Years of intention.  Entwining equal branches.  Smearing the  Constitutional right of the president to nominate a Justice with senatorial treachery and deceit.  (cough, M. McConnell)

    My taxes are simple these days.  On purpose.  Absolutely nowhere to hide an undocumented ten million.

  61. 61.

    Ken

    @different-church-lady: You’re doing quite well, but the judges will knock off some points if you don’t include the mandatory “gold fringe on the flag” and “constitutional sheriffs” claims in your presentation.

  63. 63.

    Josie

    @Brachiator:

    “If a person takes advantage of legitimate deductions and tax laws, this cannot be a problem.”

    If our laws permit this kind of income tax inequity, then the laws need to be changed.

  65. 65.

    mvr

    @Kent: And yet the one year he paid real money in taxes TFG paid out about a million on 25 million, for less than 5% in taxes.

  66. 66.

    sab

    There are deductions and then there are legitimate deductions. Just because you take a deduction doesn’t mean it is okay.

    This isn’t rocket science, folks. It is just basic tax law.

  67. 67.

    Tony G

    @Chetan Murthy: Yes, I agree with that.  Of course, the handful of people with that kind of wealth would never allow the congressmen/women who they buy to vote for such a law.

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    @sab:

    There are deductions and then there are legitimate deductions. Just because you take a deduction doesn’t mean it is okay.

    You are allowed legitimate deductions. But I will go further. The IRS frowns on people who might omit a deduction which they clearly should have taken, in order to maximize a tax credit they want to take.

    Even basic tax law isn’t always so basic.

  69. 69.

    Tony G

    @Chetan Murthy: The great talent of the right-wing propaganda machine (e.g., Fox News, talk radio, etc.) is that they’re able to convince millions of ordinary slobs — people barely getting by on small paychecks and retirees barely being kept alive by Social Security and Medicare — that multi-billionaires are their friends and that the progressive income tax system is their enemy.  Apparently all it takes to get low-income people to vote against their interests is a few magic words like “Black Lives Matte”, “Drag Queen Shows”, “Gun Grabbers” and “Illegal Aliens”.  If I were young and ambitious (and had no conscience) I’d try get into that racket.

  71. 71.

    Roger Moore

    @Dangerman: ​
     

    Not only see their tax returns but if you wanna be President, you best be able to get a Security Clearance the old fashioned way. No clearance? Fuck you very much. Next?

    It’s a nice idea, but it’s open to all kinds of abuse. I can easily imagine Trump leaning on the FBI to deny clearance to Biden so he couldn’t run, for instance.

  72. 72.

    JaySinWA

    @Chetan Murthy: Given the length of Z’s journey the sweater and pants might just be a travel concession. Getting a suit here in good shape would be an ordeal in itself.

    OTOH I remember the statement about dressing up later

    @Alison Rose:

    mentioned, now that she mentioned it.

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    @zhena gogolia: Gadzooks, the press screaming and yacking after Biden tells the press “thank you” is ridiculous.  I like how Biden just shook his head and they started whispering to each other.

    Class act by Z and B all arround.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  74. 74.

    VOR

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Romney also revised past tax filings. IIRC, when he ran for Massachusetts Governor he re-filed several years of past taxes to change his state of residency from Utah to Massachusetts. I suspect the day after he lost the Presidential election he was on the phone to his accountant to revise his taxes.

Comments are closed.