And McCarthy is going to inherit the gavel by the thinnest of margins. Ah well, hopefully the chaos just makes the House GOP caucus look unhinged to normal, everyday people.
Greene, Boebert, Gaetz etc better not heckle Zelenskyy
There was a VFW post I drove past recently in my area that had a digital reader board on the building and one of the messages was, “We stand with the people of the Ukraine”, with the Ukrainian flag in the background. It’s a nice sentiment, but come on guys, it’s not “the” Ukraine, it’s just Ukraine
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, I mean…I also used to say it that way, because russia had made us think that was the way it should be. But as soon as the full-scale war started and I saw Ukrainians correcting us, I stopped. I don’t see how anyone who has heard it as just “Ukraine” for this long can still fuck up.
@Layer8Problem: He has always been a patriot, and much of his comedy was directly aimed at Ukrainian freedom and sovereignty. He was never just a comedian.
@WaterGirl: Yes, he must. But as Real Actual President Obama said, “You can’t be tired!” He is in this situation and he can’t be tired. He is killing it.
Can we also point out the political deftness of this remarkable scene? The Democrats have played this perfectly in the face of oncoming GOP obstinacy and outright hostility to doing the right thing?
The GOP house members will hem and haw, but they will not be able to escape this man’s shadow when they convene on Jan 3 and expect they will cut aid off to Ukraine.
Is this Joe’s admin’s doing or a combo of Joe, Nancy and Chuck?
And how long has this been in the works? Since the dipshit GOP members telegraphed they would try and fuck over Ukraine?
Fox cut away from the address for a minute near the end with a “breaking alert” from Tucker Carlson that the border is collapsing. As soon as the speech was over, like immediately, TC started giving his response, starting with “they certainly love him, more than they love YOU” and then I got my mom to turn it off. Ugh.
83.
zhena gogolia
@M31: I have to watch this later. I was wondering if they had the nerve.
@WaterGirl: Same. I’m gonna rewatch it later. I loved how much strength and power and emotion he put into every word. God, what a damn hero. I know he shakes his head at such comments, but he really is.
Balloon Juice has raised over $100,000 for Ukraine.
98.
lowtechcyclist
That was quite a speech.
“I assure you that Ukrainian soldiers can operate American tanks and planes themselves.”
Well of course they can! How many different nations have provided them weapons and vehicles that are all operated differently? They’ve got their best and brightest out there on the battlefield. These are people who can pick up these skills much faster than the average grunt from Alabama where learning isn’t much of a priority to begin with.
No, this was a Congressional event, not the admin.
Thought I saw some Cabinet people in there before the speech. Sure looked like I was seeing Buttigieg and Garland in the room.
103.
NotoriousJRT
@Elizabelle: I don’t give a flying F what this stupid woman thinks or does. I’m not going to pay any attention to dipsh!ts like her. Rather, I will celebrate the overall and overriding message and vibe of the evening.
sorry that s/b a response to observed Bobert rudeness.
@lowtechcyclist: He’s anticipating resistance from people claiming that aiding an offensive must lead to US soldiers on the ground.
106.
Ruckus
Simply amazing.
I had never heard him speak english before so didn’t know what to expect. He was good, very good. We need to support him and his country in whatever way possible and necessary. I thought that since the first day, today just proved to me that I was not wrong to want us to do everything possible.
I figured that a bunch of the rethuglicans wouldn’t clap or be actual humans because the people they actually work for are not citizens of this country. They are effectively traitors to this country. They do not want to uphold the laws of this country, they want to live in a country that does not respect anything but their bank accounts and hates the same people they do.
So very very smart of Zelenskyy to make his address in English. He really connects with people. You can see the fondness, dare I say love, when he and Nancy SMASH engage with one another.
110.
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: True. The cabinet entered as a group led by Garland.
I had never heard him speak english before so didn’t know what to expect.
You could tell he was working hard at it: the way his finger never left the text, so he wouldn’t get lost; the way he didn’t know precisely where phrases ended, the way his pronunciations were sometimes off by a good bit. He really worked hard to speak to us in our own language, and I have to respect that.
@Steeplejack: Then like I said, I’d guess it’s about the churches, which is so fucking dumb. I mean, here he is wishing Merry Christmas to everyone, his own wife is…well, I don’t know what religion she identifies with but I know their kids were baptized. But then, like we can expect anything non-moronic from Fucker.
If Steeplejack wasn’t being sarcastic, I’d assume it’s regarding the thing with the russian churches?
I’m betting Steeplejack was being sarcastic. But it’s hard to parody the lunatic right (which very definitely includes Fucker) when their reality keeps overtaking parody. A chryon like that on Faux News wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
@Layer8Problem: It was. The people in the gallery were mostly leaders of the Ukrainian-American community.
116.
West of the Cascades
@Ruckus: I suspect his English has been getting better over the past year (as has his Ukrainian) – and he’s trained as a lawyer and an actor, two professions where being able to rehearse and “perform” lines are essential. Not taking anything away from Zelenskyy here – just that he was able to make a read, rehearsed speech in his third language sound amazingly natural is partly thanks to the skills he’s developed in other professions (besides “President of Ukraine” and “Hero of the Free World,” which he does pretty well too).
117.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: As I’ve commented before, it comes with the territory. If a human lives long enough, cognitive errors occur. You and I will end up making these same sorts of errors if we’re lucky to live long enough. Heck, I’m already well into it with other verbal recall issues.
118.
Steeplejack
Tucker back to “crisis at the border” now, having dealt with the Ukraine ephemera.
He’s anticipating resistance from people claiming that aiding an offensive must lead to US soldiers on the ground.
Maybe. But over the past ten months, I’ve frequently heard the claim that it would take months for Ukrainian soldiers and pilots to master our tanks and fighter jets. So I have to believe that remark was more focused at that bullshit, rather than anything about U.S. soldiers fighting in Ukraine.
@Chetan Murthy: Kinda confused how people haven’t heard him speak English before–he’s done a bunch of speeches and videos in English over the past ten months, and before that too. But then, I do watch everything he posts, maybe others do not. I actually quite like hearing it, sometimes I like the way he pronounces some of our words better than the way we do it :P
I have spoken to large groups before and it is not the easiest thing to do. To attempt it with a speech of such importance in another language, under the level of stress of travel and the rational of his coming and doing so well is pretty damn amazing.
@WaterGirl: No, Steeplejack said Tucker had a chyron about Zelenskyy waging a war on Christianity. I’m assuming this is in regard to his banning of religious organizations with ties to russia.
Ali Velshi at the msnbc yak knew of Saratoga, mentioning he was Canadian.
134.
persistentillusion
@Ruckus: I got the impression that his speech was written out phonetically for him. He, at one point, was following along with his finger, line by line.
Having learned my part in an opera that way as a child, it resonated.
135.
West of the Cascades
@HumboldtBlue: Wow! That is some fun and interesting music. Again, thanks!!
@Chief Oshkosh: As far as I can tell, Nancy doesn’t have dementia, and after hearing it called Ukraine for so long, it’s just a dumb error to make. Before introducing someone in a public forum, you make sure you get their name right, their title, etc. Getting the name of his country correct ought to be obvious, and the only people for ten months now who have still said “the Ukraine” are russians and trolls.
Yes, but Joe held his joint presser earlier today, he would just take the spotlight away from Zelensky at this event, I’m pretty sure that’s why he’s not there. This is for Zelensky alone, same when Churchill spoke.
@WaterGirl: I think the writing on the flag the President presented to the speaker were the signatures of troops in Bahkmut – I’m assuming that from the clip I saw JUST FREAKING YESTERDAY of the flag being presented to the President in that poor city.
141.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Totally agreed. I’m certainly no expert, but some of the episodes of his sitcom spoke directly to the aspirations of the citizens to create a better country, a better future for their children.
142.
MattF
@Alison Rose: I think one can assume that Tucker is compromised in some way.
143.
NotoriousJRT
@WaterGirl: I believe it is signatures of frontline soldiers who gave Zelenskyy the flag.
I’ve frequently heard the claim that it would take months for Ukrainian soldiers and pilots to master our tanks and fighter jets. So I have to believe that remark was more focused at that bullshit.
What an amazing man and speech. I’m at a loss for words except seriously fuck Tucker Carlson. That Tucker goes into a warm bed every night and President Zelenskyy is flying back to hell is just maddening.
I just noticed that Representative Liz Cheney, Republican of Wyoming, is sitting with Democrats, not Republicans. She’s sitting next to Representative Elaine Luria, Democrat of Virginia, a fellow member of the Jan. 6 committee.
@Alison Rose: I winced as well. But the fact is that Chief Oshkosh has it right. It helps to recognize that it is precisely the people who have been paying attention to Ukraine for many decades (long-serving politicians, for example) who will have most trouble dropping “the” from the name because their brains are used to calling it “the Ukraine.” Among Americans, it’s those who have only started paying attention to it relatively recently who will find it easiest to call it “Ukraine” because they have had no practice doing otherwise.
152.
Geminid
@HumboldtBlue: House Republicans may not have the chance to cut off aid to Ukraine for a while. APNews and and other outlets report that the pending Omnibus spending bill includes $45 billion in aid for Ukraine. This is $8 billion more than the Biden administration request for $37 billion (the AP article said that aid this year already totaled $68 billion exclusive of the Omnibus bill funding).
So it doesn’t look like there will be a House showdown on Ukraine aid until some months from now. A few members have been noisily promising to cut of aid but I think most caucus members have not committed themselves and will stay on the fence as long as they can.
I just will say I think the entire thing was amazing.
He’s got to be tired, he’s got to be stressed, he’s got the weight of an entire country fighting for it’s life on his back, and he’s speaking in a foreign language, one of the most important speeches of his life, in front of likely a larger part of the world than we might imagine. And he asked, never begged, never lost perspective, never lost the point.
@Steeplejack: I wondered if that was it, thank you.
155.
dr. luba
@WaterGirl: No. The vowel sounds are consistent. It’s two short Os (like the A in call) and the Ys are two short Is (like the I in it). Accent on the third syllable.
@Alison Rose: On the other hand, President Zelensky looked at Nancy SMASH with what appeared to be fondness, love and respect, and she returned the same.
I doubt that he even cares for one second that she said The Ukraine. She fucking came into a war zone to meet with him and show her respect and show the support of the US.
Which isn’t to say it’s not important to get it right, but if he can let that go, maybe we can, too?
Thank you. Obviously didn’t know that. Should have it takes that long to make the kind of effort firm up and actually happen.
I wonder if Biden asking him had anything to do with trying to get congress to go along with whatever he needs congress to do so Ukraine can win this war.
@Ruckus: In one of Adam’s updates early-ish in the full-scale war, he said something along the lines of, you can teach someone a lot of things involved in being a president or a war-time leader, but you can’t teach character or integrity, you can’t teach leadership. Those things have to exist within the person, and clearly, they did in Zelenskyy. You can see this in the fact that, true, he maybe hadn’t been the best president before late February, but nearly overnight, he turned into exactly the person the country needed at that moment. No one taught him that, no one trained him in that. That’s who he always was.
Surprisingly yes, it was a terrible 12 seconds and a difficult 36 hours, and the 4-plus aftershocks have absolutely sucked, but my neighbors and I were very fortunate not have suffered more severe damage. Residents in the southern part of the county got hit hard, we were spared.
I fully understand. I’ve seen people who lead with grace and thought and people who lead by bullying using their position (I was in the US military after all). He has grace and thought.
170.
Layer8Problem
@NotoriousJRT: He lives there because it’s away from major population centers and he has clear fields of fire in case hordes of “urban” hooligans track him down. No aspersions cast here about Maine, I love it. Except Paul LePage; fuck that guy. Ok, and Senator Collins.
171.
zhena gogolia
@dr. luba: so not on the second syllable? I misunderstood what G and T said then
172.
Dan B
I heard there were empty seats in the GQP section, maybe half. I’d love to see Russian flags on those seats.
@Ruckus: I’m sure. Biden knows politics and has years of experience. Zelensky seems like he is whip smart and has emotional IQ that’s off the charts.
Of course they are trying to help even the worst Rs connect with Zelensky and Ukraine AND barring that, to make it damn awkward for them to quit funding the fight for the survival of democracy.
175.
Torrey
I missed the chance to say this in the thread about the press conference with Biden, but I think Zelenskyy was very smart to turn his “thank you for what you gave us; but give more” into–not a joke, exactly, but sort of a running tag line. delivered somewhat humorously. I noticed he did that in his interview with Christiane Amanpour after the infamous phone call with TFG. It’s always delivered with a charming smile as if he’s not really serious, but of course that allows him to remind people that Ukraine really does need more and to do it without seeming to beg and without it becoming tiresome.
Ukraine is still die Ukraine in German and l’Ukraine in French, which I find a bit annoying. I’m sure there are other languages that haven’t dropped the definite article from Ukraine’s name.
179.
lowtechcyclist
@Steeplejack: Well shit, I was wrong. I was hoping you were merely being sarcastic.
Wrong, but unsurprised.
180.
JWR
From Aaron Rupar’s twitter thang:
Donald Trump Jr.
@DonaldJTrumpJr
Zelensky is basically an ungrateful international welfare queen. 6:52 AM · Dec 21, 2022
Oh STFU and f*ck right off, dumbass T***p trash!
181.
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: Well i suppose it reduces to the same thing. The choice of moving quickly to the offense would not require US operators. It need not lead to a situation like Vietnam, which made the phrase “mission creep” current.
@WaterGirl: Thankfully my last name has only one spelling. (Well, I’m sure there is some weirdo out there who spells it differently, but probably 99% of us spell it the one way.) I know that having a first name with four common spellings plus like ten others, I should resign myself to it, but I will not ever, LOL. And I like my name, though every once in a while I do wish Rose were my first name so that people would always get it right :P
Based on some of the mispronunciations, I think he was reading English. His English is pretty good, but it may be that the focus when he learned it was more on writing than speaking, as was common in some European countries some time back, and may still be in many cases
A daddy’s boy who met with a foreign adversary that was attempting to subvert an American election is daring to denigrate a true hero battling Putin & defending his nation from a genocidal war? This may be the dumbest remark ever from Junior. And that’s quite an accomplishment. https://t.co/oLBZ3BpqTH
— David Corn (@DavidCornDC) December 21, 2022
186.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Dementia is not the condition being discussed.
Of course Speaker Pelosi knows the correct name of the country of her honored guest. But language mistakes happen, even in younger people. And they happen more frequently as we age. It’s extremely common. If you learn a phrase or name earlier in life, and then it changes (for whatever reason), then later in life we often inadvertently use the older phrasing. “The Ukraine” coming out of Speaker Pelosi’s mouth is practically the perfect example of this.
187.
Chetan Murthy
@Amir Khalid: Ehh, in French, it’s Les Etats Unis (iirc). L’Amerique. L’Inde. Etc.
@Alison Rose: This is a blog – you can go with anything you want! :-)
189.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Zelensky may not have said anything at all about churches, and the Fox chyron is about a weeks-old story that Carlson is exaggerating.
But when the chyron was quoted my first thought was that Carlson was dog-whistling about Zelensky being Jewish. I certainly would not put it past him. The anti-Semitism on the right is getting more and more blatant.
@Torrey: It’s also likely just the issue that no matter how well you learn another language, some of the letter combinations and pronunciations are going to be difficult for your mouth to learn. We see that all the time when non-Ukrainians try to say anything in that language. Having heard him speak English many times, both from prepared remarks and sort of off the cuff, it’s mainly just his accent and the differences in sounds, I think.
I agree, and came to that conclusion based on his pronunciation of “bicameral”. If he’d had phonetic text, he’d have come closer to the correct pronunciation, I would think.
But whatevs: it was certainly the right decision to give his address in English.
193.
Torrey
@Amir Khalid: I think French uses the definite article for country names as a rule in any case: la France, l’Allemagne, la Grèce, etc.
@Geminid: I wouldn’t put it past him either, but remember, he and his ilk screech about plenty of people who are actual Christians “hating Christianity” or whatever.
@Geminid: Carlson is a Russian-owned traitor through and through.
196.
sdhays
@WaterGirl: I’m reminded that Nancy (and her majority) was probably the major reason Trump’s extortion attempt which led to his first impeachment failed. The money he was withholding was finally released, and he saw her go to bat not just for the US, but for Ukraine too. He knows she’s not just an ally, but a kindred spirit.
197.
Another Scott
Excellent speech.
I enjoyed his dig about the need to “put in, put in” the criminals that started this war.
I think that supporting Ukraine is more popular in the GQP than folks like Carson want us to believe. Lots of the RWNJs running against popular Democrats here in NoVA were all in on supporting Ukraine. Lots of folks with don’t step on snek vanity license plates have Ukraine flags on their homes. I’m not worried much about continued US support for Ukraine. I worry more about the long ramp-up times and so forth, but I think those will be resolved with time.
Slava Ukraini!!
Cheers,
Scott.
198.
Torrey
@dr. luba:
Thank you for indicating the accented syllable. Since (as you know, but I’m adding this for those who might not) Ukrainian doesn’t reduce unaccented syllables, I often find it difficult to hear which syllable is actually stressed.
@Alison Rose: Excellent response from Corn. Just the other night, after his response to the J6 report, I was thinking that TFG’s mouth alone s/b declared an Insurrection. Today I add TFGJr to the list of those suffering from Insurrection of the Mouth disease. God I hate these people!
203.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Ha! You are saying the same thing the Alison and the Allison I know say all the time (well, functionally say it). And they won’t let me get away with calling them “Al” – even when I remind them that Paul Simon says it’s OK!
204.
zhena gogolia
Okay, I am going with what Dr. Luba says — the accent is on the “DY.” This would be consistent with how Vladimir is pronounced in Russian, with the accent on the “DI.”
And both of whom will not be in Congress next year.
206.
zhena gogolia
Wikipedia:
The Old East Slavic form of the name is Володимѣръ Volodiměr, while the Old Church Slavonic form is Vladiměr. According to Max Vasmer, the name is composed of Slavic владь vladĭ “to rule” and *mēri “great”, “famous” (related to Gothic element mērs, -mir, c.f. Theodemir, Valamir). The modern (pre-1918) Russian forms Владимиръ and Владиміръ are based on the Church Slavonic one, with the replacement of мѣръ by миръ or міръ resulting from a folk etymological association with миръ “peace” or міръ “world”.[2]
207.
JWR
PBS guy says that Boebert, Gaetz and Greene applauded, but didn’t rise when others did. Expected, I know, but still gets my hackles up.
208.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): This omnibus bill does not raise the debt ceiling and neither does the NDAA.
Unless Pat Leahy and Richard Shelby had a staff member sneak it in, as in: “Section 84(j)iii-Cranberry harvesting equipment purchased before July 1, 2022 may be depreciated 25% per year and the debt ceiling is now 30 trillion dollars.
I can go on and add a few more words along that line which even closer describes him but I think the point is made, any swearing added to his name is appropriate. I can do an entire paragraph of swear words which would enhance his many, many negative aspects. And while normally I dislike denigrating a person with his level of disabilities, he’s earned every single word.
I actually started applauding when he showed up and didn’t even notice for a minute. I was genuinely excited.
His speech was nearly perfect, his emphasis on drawing in both sides of Congress, whether they like it or not was right on point. Whether it will matter in the long run is hard to say but he did his job perfectly.
I did a standing ovation at the end, right here in my office.
@HumboldtBlue: They both lost their seats because of the commission, maybe that gives them a connection.
213.
BritinChicago
@Alison Rose: Churchill was not so wonderful, at least from my leftish point of view, before WWII or after it. But he was the leader needed during the war.
Why the hell not? Don’t Manchin, etc understand what’s at stake? What good will their wealth be if the global financial system collapses because of a US debt default? McCarthy and the House GOP cannot be trusted
216.
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): B/c too many rich people believe in the “ceteris paribus fallacy”. Viz. “I can change this one thing without it bringing the whole house of cards down on my head”.
Also known as “somebody else will surely clean up this mess, and I can still get PAID!”
Zelenskyy agrees completely with you about Churchill as an imperialist, and for that reason doesn’t like to be compared to him.
218.
Gin & Tonic
@Chetan Murthy: And he struggled with “righteous” in the FDR segment.
People should understand that Ukrainian is a phonetic language – it is pronounced as it is written, letter for letter. You may get the accent on the wrong syllable if you don’t know the word, but it doesn’t have pronunciation landmines like “bough,” “cough” and “dough.”
219.
persistentillusion
@WaterGirl: I couldn’t spell my (maiden) last name until I was in second grade. With you sister.
Glad to hear you are okay and checking in. I have another friend who was caught in that earthquake. She’s okay too, with some damage to her apartment. It was all quite a shock.
lowtechcyclist is in the doghouse with me because sometimes he’s lowtechcyclist and sometimes he’s Low Tech Cyclist.
Hmmm, I hadn’t noticed I was in your doghouse!
I’m pretty sure it’s been at least two years since I went from being low-tech cyclist here (might have had initial caps, can’t remember) to being lowtechcyclist, like I am on Disqus fora. I think that’s what I am pretty much everywhere but Twitter, where I don’t expect to be much longer anyway.
222.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I could not say why there was no deal on a debt ceiling increase. I think the Senators and Reps know how important it is. Maybe they have a plan, or maybe they’re just assuming they’ll find a way to cross that bridge when they come to it.
223.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: When did I say that? In current spoken Ukrainian the accent will be on the third syllable. Among older emigres from western Ukraine you’ll often hear the accent on the last syllable.
@lowtechcyclist: Well that was a total exaggeration, but there is truth to it.
I keep a spreadsheet for the pet calendar, and we include the person’s nym in the naming of the file. e.g. lowtechcyclist – Roger (if Roger was your pet’s name).
So I had you in as lowtechcyclist in the spreadsheet and the file names. But then I saw a comment and it was the upper case separate words thing, so I changed it in all 4 locations. Then I saw a comment from you the next day and it was lower case again.
Grrr.
Only the funny thing is that I checked the spreadsheet just now so I could verify how many instances I had to change, and I discovered that you’re not in there at all! It’s Low Key Swagger!
Brain fart. Anyway, you were in the doghouse in any meaningful way, but now you’re really not in the doghouse because it wasn’t you at all. :-)
228.
Steve in the ATL
@Amir Khalid: every country has a definite article in French.
People should understand that Ukrainian is a phonetic language – it is pronounced as it is written, letter for letter.
I’m sure you’re right, but I”ll just note that both my grammar teachers in elementary school, as well as my French teachers at the Alliance Francaise (when I was 26) assured me the same thing about their (in the first case, *our*) languages. That’s what “phonics” was all about, right?
And yet, French has a shit-ton of unpronounced bits of words, and words that can be pronounced more than one way, with different meanings. Like “fils” (“wires”, pronounced like “feel”) vs. “fils” (“son”, pronouced “feeess”).
@Chief Oshkosh: My brothers used to call me Al to get a rise out of me when we were little. That I could ignore, but there were also always people who would start calling me Ali after meeting me, even though I always introduce myself as Alison and that’s the only name I have ever gone by. It’s a mite irritating.
@Gin & Tonic: The -ough thing has to be one of the stupidest things in English. There are too many ways it can be pronounced!! Rough, bough, through, though, ought…I’m probably forgetting a few.
233.
Chetan Murthy
@Alison Rose: I remember when I was learning French, and complained a little to my French colleagues about some (to me) inexplicable thing in French pronunciation, they’d reply with some list of English words that were equally mad, like:
hear,heart,wear, … I forget the rest
and then there was a list of words with “ie” in it, like financier, and again, I forget the rest.
But the distinct memory I have, is that they learned these lists in their English classes, b/c the quirks of English had to be memorized, there were no rules they could use to infer them.
@BritinChicago: The millions who perished in the Bengal famine during WWII because of Churchill’s decision to starve India would like a word
ETA: Without Indian blood and $$ Britain would not have prevailed in the war. Pretty speeches can only get you so far. The soldiers of the Empire are conveniently whitewashed away in the heroic retellings of how Britain won the war.
@morfydd: As a contrast Fucker Carlson, the news part of Fox was on at work today at lunch and was just crushing on Zelenskyy, was calling Zelenskyy the greatest Western war time leader since Winston Churchill. That was interesting to see on Fox.
@WaterGirl: As could easily be predicted, Lauren Botulism‘s squeaker win in CO-03 taught her nothing about class, moderation, or civility.
Maybe 2024 will kick her in the can.
240.
Torrey
@HumboldtBlue:
Thank you for posting this link to DakhaBrakha’s music. I see they have a presence on iTunes. I would like to hear more of their music, so I shall be spending some money.
241.
dexwood
@HumboldtBlue: See them live if you ever get the chance. Fantastic. We’ve seen them four times. They seem to come through New Mexico fairly often. They were in Albuquerque again this past September and held the audience captive.
242.
Manyakitty
@HumboldtBlue: at least she, Jordan, and gaetz kept their pie holes shut. I noticed Jerry Nadler sitting right by them, probably babysitting.
243.
Manyakitty
@lowtechcyclist: i think in this case the President would add political tension to what ended up a masterful balancing act. I especially loved the human barricade/reception team/thingy made of senators and congresscritters.
244.
jonas
How some of these anti-Ukrainian Repukes even dare show their *faces* in this sacred hall tonight is beyond me. *Spits on ground* Zelenskyy did a masterful job and tied his country’s struggle into a larger historical narrative about the fight for liberty and democracy throughout history, from the American revolution through WWII to the present day. The idea that there are *Republicans* — I mean honest to Dog people calling themselves Republicans — who roll their eyes at this and secretly cheerlead for Russia is just mind-boggling. I mean, it’s not surprising as most of them were giggling with delight every time Trump donned his kneepads and went in to confer with Putin at some summit meeting, but damn.
245.
Lyrebird
@zhena gogolia: FWIW I had the same impression. Glad to get the updates.
246.
Darkrose
@Alison Rose: Which thing about the Russian churches? I think I missed that one.
@WaterGirl: I know I’ve posted this stuff before, but hopefully the jackals will forgive me for repeating myself.
The russian Orthodox Church inside russia is a wholly owned subsidiary of Vladimir Putin. Patriarch Kirill, the head of the russian Orthodox Church in russia, has endorsed the attack on Ukraine because (he says) the Ukrainians are “satanic” and have Gay Pride Parades (!!??!!). I’m sure the jackals will remember that Patriarch Kirill was photographed wearing a $39,000 watch (just what Jesus would do, right?).
Ukraine, unlike russia, has religious diversity. In 2019, the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew (more or less the pope of Eastern Orthodoxy) declared the Ukrainian Orthodox church “autocephalous” (independent of Moscow). As a result, there are two versions of Eastern Orthodoxy in Ukraine: the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (independent, due to Patriarch Bartholomew’s decree) and the Russian Orthodox Church (subservient to Moscow). Needless to say, the second group is a problem for the Ukrainian government. There are also Eastern Rite Catholics, Christian Protestants, Jews, and Muslims. All of these groups except russian Orthodoxy are suppressed/persecuted in russia.
So, here’s what’s behind tucker carlson’s statement: The russian Orthodox Church in russia (the one that reports to Patriarch Kirill) has been acting as an active agent of the russian government. The Ukrainian government has said “you can’t do this any more”. tucker carlson (a total slime) has been equating suppressing a church acting as an active agent of an enemy in wartime with an attack on Christianity. Not true. The independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Protestants, and the Eastern Rite Catholics are doing just fine.
250.
jonas
@Steeplejack:
Ukraine recently took action to close churches and other religious organizations still tied to the Russian Orthodox Church, which had become more or less a propaganda arm of Putin’s Kremlin preaching the destruction of Ukraine and its people. It’s not a legitimate religious institution — it’s the state cult of Putin’s neo-tsarist regime. Given that Russian Orthodoxy claims roots in the conversion of Kyivan Rus in the 10th century, and that this connection is part of Russia’s mythology about why Ukraine should be destroyed and reunited with Russia, they’ve been screaming bloody murder about Zelenskyy’s action, which has also been amplified by Kremlin-aligned disinformation outlets in the West. Such as Tucker Carlson’s show.
251.
sab
JD Vance said he didn’t give a shit about Ukraine, and then he won the election as Senator for a state with the highest Ukarainian population in the US.
@sab: Late to the thread, I know, but…I wonder how much that had to do with publication of the leak the week before the election of that draft circulated (the previous summer) among leftish Democratic Congressfolks (who should’ve known better, shame on you Jamie Raskin!) about backing off support for Ukraine? How much you wanna bet the leaker was a Thuglican mole in the apparatus just waiting for the best time to make it public?
Comments are closed.
Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!
Alison Rose
Love seeing Harris and Pelosi standing there together.
Gin & Tonic
Fuck it, saying “Volodymyr” correctly is not hard. Why can’t anyone manage it?
cain
lol – love that he’s not bothering to wear a suit and tie. He’s going as he is.
WaterGirl
Which livestream are you guys watching? I tried to give you options
I think I’m going with C-SPAN.
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: I know. I cringe every time.
M31
wish I could hear what Pelosi and Harris are talking about
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: I’ve got the C-Span one up in another tab
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: So is it
Vo – rhymes with Moe
Lod – rhymes with Pod
“i” – rhymes with it only without the T
myr – rhymes with cheer?
JaySinWA
We generally do PBS for the livestreams or PBS World.
M31
more actual competence on that podium right now than in the last 50 years of the GOP
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: Yeah, I always open the video in a new tab, otherwise I forget and refresh for comments and lose my place in the video.
WaterGirl
I am so glad that Nancy SMASH is running the show tonight.
Especially proud to be a Democrat today.
cain
Just way too many old white men.
I’m watching C-SPAN.
Garland is doing some scanning. I hope he is mentally got a list of people to put in jail.
M31
Pelosi is talking about how glad she is so many people are there, I think
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@M31:
And McCarthy is going to inherit the gavel by the thinnest of margins. Ah well, hopefully the chaos just makes the House GOP caucus look unhinged to normal, everyday people.
Greene, Boebert, Gaetz etc better not heckle Zelenskyy
lowtechcyclist
@Alison Rose:
They seem to be having an animated conversation right now. I wonder what they’re talking about?
Alison Rose
@lowtechcyclist: How Nancy Smash is gonna use that gavel on anyone who misbehaves.
lowtechcyclist
@Gin & Tonic:
I guess you’re probably talking about the TV guys, but the next time I hear it pronounced (correctly or not) will be the first.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lowtechcyclist:
Maybe about how if McCarthy tries to hit Pelosi with the gavel, she’ll bust out some karate to knock Kev on his ass
lowtechcyclist
@Alison Rose:
:-D
Alison Rose
Here’s our man!
M31
Harris: “I told you, we love you” (I think)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Lots of cheering and applause!
WaterGirl
He must be exhausted.
Alison Rose
probably a longer ovation than he gets in the Rada :)
M31
lol Zelenskyy is thinking “man, I haven’t gotten this much applause since I played the piano with my dick!”
Alison Rose
NANCY WHAT THE FUCK. She said the Ukraine. JFC.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Nancy did pretty well?
M31
lol Nancy showing her age saying “The Ukraine”
(I admit that’s a hard one not to say by mistake)
Philbert
Nancy: ‘The’ Ukraine. oops
cain
Awww fuck Nancy it’s Ukraine not the Ukraine !
Alison Rose
@M31: After ten months, there’s no excuse for getting that wrong.
BenCisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️
Nancy OOPS
Layer8Problem
He sounds hoarse.
Layer8Problem
“. . . alive, and kicking!”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Alison Rose:
There was a VFW post I drove past recently in my area that had a digital reader board on the building and one of the messages was, “We stand with the people of the Ukraine”, with the Ukrainian flag in the background. It’s a nice sentiment, but come on guys, it’s not “the” Ukraine, it’s just Ukraine
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Layer8Problem:
A very good song from Simple Minds
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: No.
BenCisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️
“Freedom and international law.”
I like this guy.
M31
yeah Europe is more united, they’ve figured out they’re next
Alison Rose
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, I mean…I also used to say it that way, because russia had made us think that was the way it should be. But as soon as the full-scale war started and I saw Ukrainians correcting us, I stopped. I don’t see how anyone who has heard it as just “Ukraine” for this long can still fuck up.
Alison Rose
Yes, say freedom a million times, maybe that will get through some thick GOP skulls!
steppy
Manchin, are you chewing gum? Did you bring enough for everybody?
Layer8Problem
I can’t get over that this is the same guy from Servant of the People. From comedy to actual, vital, determined leadership of a country in peril.
HumboldtBlue
Battle of the Bulge reference!
Saratoga reference!
I doubt there are a dozen member of the GOP caucus, house and senate, who can give even the slightest details on those two battles.
“And planes… themselves” he nailed that!
What en excellent communicator, the man has presence, heft, spirit, he exudes it.
FDR!
Alison Rose
Tearing up over here.
Layer8Problem
And Saratoga.
steppy
@Layer8Problem: No shit. Absolutely remarkable.
Alison Rose
Oh, do not show us those fuckfaces, damn it. I don’t want to see their ugly traitor faces
M31
some fucking GOP dickwads not clapping, good job you tools showing what side you’re on
Alison Rose
@Layer8Problem: He has always been a patriot, and much of his comedy was directly aimed at Ukrainian freedom and sovereignty. He was never just a comedian.
WaterGirl
Stupid fucking Boebert doesn’t stand when others do.
M31
oh Christ looking at her phone, fuck you
Elizabelle
Not charity. An investment in democracy. Tell it.
Steeplejack
Just checked: Fox News is showing this live. Too big to bury, I guess.
Alison Rose
@Elizabelle: Literally crying now at that line
Elizabelle
@M31: She is stupid. Do not let her bother you.
Gin & Tonic
Good line: your money is not charity.
steppy
@WaterGirl: Yes, he must. But as Real Actual President Obama said, “You can’t be tired!” He is in this situation and he can’t be tired. He is killing it.
Layer8Problem
” . . . bicameral and bipartisan.”
prostratedragon
@M31: So you doubt she’s looking up the Saratoga campaign?
Layer8Problem
@Alison Rose: He showed that love of country throughout the show.
prostratedragon
@Layer8Problem: I’m hip.
Oh, this is brilliant: Christmas.
HumboldtBlue
@Elizabelle:
Exactly, she’s not worth an iota of your emotional energy.
WaterGirl
This is very moving.
cain
@WaterGirl:
She looked confused like she walked into the wrong theater.
cain
‘put .. in ’ lol love it
West of the Cascades
I cannot stop crying. “Shchedryk” is playing non-stop in my brain as I listen to this.
Elizabelle
Listening to this in my car. We are listening to history.
Amir Khalid
@prostratedragon:
Somehow, it doesn’t surprise me that Zelenskyy knows more than Boebert about American history.
Layer8Problem
Look at that flag.
prostratedragon
@Amir Khalid: Yes, alas!
Alison Rose
CRYING
Barbara
That was stirring.
HumboldtBlue
Can we also point out the political deftness of this remarkable scene? The Democrats have played this perfectly in the face of oncoming GOP obstinacy and outright hostility to doing the right thing?
The GOP house members will hem and haw, but they will not be able to escape this man’s shadow when they convene on Jan 3 and expect they will cut aid off to Ukraine.
Is this Joe’s admin’s doing or a combo of Joe, Nancy and Chuck?
And how long has this been in the works? Since the dipshit GOP members telegraphed they would try and fuck over Ukraine?
@West of the Cascades:
Did someone say bells?
Layer8Problem
I think that was “God bless America!” from the Ukrainian spectators in the gallery.
WaterGirl
I love Nancy’s little giggle.
japa21
Very dusty here.
Alison Rose
Aww a call and response :)
Dagaetch
That was amazing.
WaterGirl
I have never seen a speech like that.
morfydd
@Steeplejack:
Fox cut away from the address for a minute near the end with a “breaking alert” from Tucker Carlson that the border is collapsing. As soon as the speech was over, like immediately, TC started giving his response, starting with “they certainly love him, more than they love YOU” and then I got my mom to turn it off. Ugh.
zhena gogolia
@M31: I have to watch this later. I was wondering if they had the nerve.
Soprano2
So was Biden not there?
gene108
@Gin & Tonic:
They’re still people who get Kamala wrong, and it’s been awhile since she’s been a public figure.
Steeplejack
And Tucker Carlson’s chyron as he starts his show: “Zelensky declares war against Christianity.”
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Same. I’m gonna rewatch it later. I loved how much strength and power and emotion he put into every word. God, what a damn hero. I know he shakes his head at such comments, but he really is.
hedgehog mobile
Damn. Tears. What a leader he is.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
We were watching CBS. Every single time, they got it wrong and had to correct. AAAAARRRGGHHH.
Layer8Problem
@morfydd: There’s a reason that man lives in and broadcasts from a compound in Maine.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack: what???
Wyatt Salamanca
@WaterGirl:
She’s dumber than a doorknob.
Alison Rose
@zhena gogolia: If Steeplejack wasn’t being sarcastic, I’d assume it’s regarding the thing with the russian churches?
Barbara
@SiubhanDuinne: I watched on NBC. They had straightforward coverage, let him speak, and noted how well he was received.
HumboldtBlue
@Soprano2:
No, this was a Congressional event, not the admin.
West of the Cascades
@HumboldtBlue: Such a beautiful rendition – hadn’t seen that before. Thank you!!
WaterGirl
Balloon Juice has raised over $100,000 for Ukraine.
lowtechcyclist
That was quite a speech.
“I assure you that Ukrainian soldiers can operate American tanks and planes themselves.”
Well of course they can! How many different nations have provided them weapons and vehicles that are all operated differently? They’ve got their best and brightest out there on the battlefield. These are people who can pick up these skills much faster than the average grunt from Alabama where learning isn’t much of a priority to begin with.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Just checked in for a few seconds. Glem Greenwald on now to add to the yammering.
ETA: Tulsi Gabbard on now. Tucker is bringing out the big guns. I’m not watching; I’m just taking occasional glimpses through my fingers.
M31
@Elizabelle:
lol not bothered, dickheads gotta dick, and I’m glad it’s on camera
persistentillusion
@Layer8Problem: he’s sounded hoarse for days. I can’t imagine how exhausted he is.
lowtechcyclist
@HumboldtBlue:
Thought I saw some Cabinet people in there before the speech. Sure looked like I was seeing Buttigieg and Garland in the room.
NotoriousJRT
@Elizabelle: I don’t give a flying F what this stupid woman thinks or does. I’m not going to pay any attention to dipsh!ts like her. Rather, I will celebrate the overall and overriding message and vibe of the evening.
sorry that s/b a response to observed Bobert rudeness.
Steeplejack
@Alison Rose:
I quoted the chyron verbatim.
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: He’s anticipating resistance from people claiming that aiding an offensive must lead to US soldiers on the ground.
Ruckus
Simply amazing.
I had never heard him speak english before so didn’t know what to expect. He was good, very good. We need to support him and his country in whatever way possible and necessary. I thought that since the first day, today just proved to me that I was not wrong to want us to do everything possible.
I figured that a bunch of the rethuglicans wouldn’t clap or be actual humans because the people they actually work for are not citizens of this country. They are effectively traitors to this country. They do not want to uphold the laws of this country, they want to live in a country that does not respect anything but their bank accounts and hates the same people they do.
gene108
@HumboldtBlue:
There was a Q&A with President Biden around 4:30 pm EST.
Soprano2
@HumboldtBlue: ok, thanks, I didn’t see all of it. Everyone else was there except some R assholes
WaterGirl
So very very smart of Zelenskyy to make his address in English. He really connects with people. You can see the fondness, dare I say love, when he and Nancy SMASH engage with one another.
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: True. The cabinet entered as a group led by Garland.
Chetan Murthy
@Ruckus:
You could tell he was working hard at it: the way his finger never left the text, so he wouldn’t get lost; the way he didn’t know precisely where phrases ended, the way his pronunciations were sometimes off by a good bit. He really worked hard to speak to us in our own language, and I have to respect that.
Alison Rose
@Steeplejack: Then like I said, I’d guess it’s about the churches, which is so fucking dumb. I mean, here he is wishing Merry Christmas to everyone, his own wife is…well, I don’t know what religion she identifies with but I know their kids were baptized. But then, like we can expect anything non-moronic from Fucker.
lowtechcyclist
@Alison Rose:
I’m betting Steeplejack was being sarcastic. But it’s hard to parody the lunatic right (which very definitely includes Fucker) when their reality keeps overtaking parody. A chryon like that on Faux News wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
HumboldtBlue
@West of the Cascades:
You’re welcome.
Here is one of my favorite Tiny Desk concerts, it’s not Christmas, but it’s damn sure Ukrainian.
DakaBrakha
Gin & Tonic
@Layer8Problem: It was. The people in the gallery were mostly leaders of the Ukrainian-American community.
West of the Cascades
@Ruckus: I suspect his English has been getting better over the past year (as has his Ukrainian) – and he’s trained as a lawyer and an actor, two professions where being able to rehearse and “perform” lines are essential. Not taking anything away from Zelenskyy here – just that he was able to make a read, rehearsed speech in his third language sound amazingly natural is partly thanks to the skills he’s developed in other professions (besides “President of Ukraine” and “Hero of the Free World,” which he does pretty well too).
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: As I’ve commented before, it comes with the territory. If a human lives long enough, cognitive errors occur. You and I will end up making these same sorts of errors if we’re lucky to live long enough. Heck, I’m already well into it with other verbal recall issues.
Steeplejack
Tucker back to “crisis at the border” now, having dealt with the Ukraine ephemera.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: What was the comment about the churches?
phdesmond
the metaphor of the two flags
WaterGirl
Do we know what the writing on the flag of Ukraine is?
M31
I want Nancy to say to him afterwards, “sorry about the “The Ukraine” mistake — can we make it up to you with some extra Patriot missiles?”
NotoriousJRT
@Layer8Problem:
Native Mainer here: don’t lay him off on us.
lowtechcyclist
@prostratedragon:
Maybe. But over the past ten months, I’ve frequently heard the claim that it would take months for Ukrainian soldiers and pilots to master our tanks and fighter jets. So I have to believe that remark was more focused at that bullshit, rather than anything about U.S. soldiers fighting in Ukraine.
Alison Rose
@Chetan Murthy: Kinda confused how people haven’t heard him speak English before–he’s done a bunch of speeches and videos in English over the past ten months, and before that too. But then, I do watch everything he posts, maybe others do not. I actually quite like hearing it, sometimes I like the way he pronounces some of our words better than the way we do it :P
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
Fox News chyron in the early part of Tucker Carlson’s show: “Zelensky declares war against Christianity.”
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I have spoken to large groups before and it is not the easiest thing to do. To attempt it with a speech of such importance in another language, under the level of stress of travel and the rational of his coming and doing so well is pretty damn amazing.
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
I think it was signed by some of the soldiers in the war zone.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: It likely has to do with the struggle against the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Steeplejack:
That’s so fucked up. Somebody had to write that out
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: No, Steeplejack said Tucker had a chyron about Zelenskyy waging a war on Christianity. I’m assuming this is in regard to his banning of religious organizations with ties to russia.
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: Correct.
phdesmond
@HumboldtBlue:
admirable — the Bulge and Saratoga.
Ali Velshi at the msnbc yak knew of Saratoga, mentioning he was Canadian.
persistentillusion
@Ruckus: I got the impression that his speech was written out phonetically for him. He, at one point, was following along with his finger, line by line.
Having learned my part in an opera that way as a child, it resonated.
West of the Cascades
@HumboldtBlue: Wow! That is some fun and interesting music. Again, thanks!!
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
I had never heard him give a speech in english, as best as I can recall. Certainly not a speech of this magnitude.
I wonder whose idea it was for him to come speak to congress. I’d bet his.
Alison Rose
@Chief Oshkosh: As far as I can tell, Nancy doesn’t have dementia, and after hearing it called Ukraine for so long, it’s just a dumb error to make. Before introducing someone in a public forum, you make sure you get their name right, their title, etc. Getting the name of his country correct ought to be obvious, and the only people for ten months now who have still said “the Ukraine” are russians and trolls.
NotoriousJRT
@Chief Oshkosh: Thanks for this statement of grace.
HumboldtBlue
@lowtechcyclist:
Yes, but Joe held his joint presser earlier today, he would just take the spotlight away from Zelensky at this event, I’m pretty sure that’s why he’s not there. This is for Zelensky alone, same when Churchill spoke.
@gene108:
Yes, and it’s for that reason he didn’t attend this session, this was about Zelensky, Joe already had his time, I believe this is SOP.
@West of the Cascades:
Yeah, they’re fantastic.
West of the Cascades
@WaterGirl: I think the writing on the flag the President presented to the speaker were the signatures of troops in Bahkmut – I’m assuming that from the clip I saw JUST FREAKING YESTERDAY of the flag being presented to the President in that poor city.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Totally agreed. I’m certainly no expert, but some of the episodes of his sitcom spoke directly to the aspirations of the citizens to create a better country, a better future for their children.
MattF
@Alison Rose: I think one can assume that Tucker is compromised in some way.
NotoriousJRT
@WaterGirl: I believe it is signatures of frontline soldiers who gave Zelenskyy the flag.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Alison Rose:
So I guess the Russian Orthodox Church = all of Christianity in Tucker’s world
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist:
That is my take, as well.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@HumboldtBlue:
Did you make it out of the earthquake ok?
Sure Lurkalot
What an amazing man and speech. I’m at a loss for words except seriously fuck Tucker Carlson. That Tucker goes into a warm bed every night and President Zelenskyy is flying back to hell is just maddening.
Alison Rose
From the NYT live feed:
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: Yes, I know about that. A few people here seem to think that is in repose to what Zelensky said about churches.
So I was asking what Zelensky said about churches, because I don’t recall anything about churches in particular.
Dan B
@Ruckus: Biden invited Zelensky a week ago.
Torrey
@Alison Rose: I winced as well. But the fact is that Chief Oshkosh has it right. It helps to recognize that it is precisely the people who have been paying attention to Ukraine for many decades (long-serving politicians, for example) who will have most trouble dropping “the” from the name because their brains are used to calling it “the Ukraine.” Among Americans, it’s those who have only started paying attention to it relatively recently who will find it easiest to call it “Ukraine” because they have had no practice doing otherwise.
Geminid
@HumboldtBlue: House Republicans may not have the chance to cut off aid to Ukraine for a while. APNews and and other outlets report that the pending Omnibus spending bill includes $45 billion in aid for Ukraine. This is $8 billion more than the Biden administration request for $37 billion (the AP article said that aid this year already totaled $68 billion exclusive of the Omnibus bill funding).
So it doesn’t look like there will be a House showdown on Ukraine aid until some months from now. A few members have been noisily promising to cut of aid but I think most caucus members have not committed themselves and will stay on the fence as long as they can.
Ruckus
@persistentillusion:
I just will say I think the entire thing was amazing.
He’s got to be tired, he’s got to be stressed, he’s got the weight of an entire country fighting for it’s life on his back, and he’s speaking in a foreign language, one of the most important speeches of his life, in front of likely a larger part of the world than we might imagine. And he asked, never begged, never lost perspective, never lost the point.
That is some damn fine leadership.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: I wondered if that was it, thank you.
dr. luba
@WaterGirl: No. The vowel sounds are consistent. It’s two short Os (like the A in call) and the Ys are two short Is (like the I in it). Accent on the third syllable.
Vo-lo-DY-myr.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Ah, thank you.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Does this Omnibus bill include raising the debt ceiling?
phdesmond
@HumboldtBlue:
that’s the perfect xmas card — thanks!
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I think I read that Biden invited him last Friday.
Dan B
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Plus a heaping dogwhistle of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion from Tucker Mc Tuckface.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: On the other hand, President Zelensky looked at Nancy SMASH with what appeared to be fondness, love and respect, and she returned the same.
I doubt that he even cares for one second that she said The Ukraine. She fucking came into a war zone to meet with him and show her respect and show the support of the US.
Which isn’t to say it’s not important to get it right, but if he can let that go, maybe we can, too?
Ruckus
@Dan B:
And Water Girl!
Thank you. Obviously didn’t know that. Should have it takes that long to make the kind of effort firm up and actually happen.
I wonder if Biden asking him had anything to do with trying to get congress to go along with whatever he needs congress to do so Ukraine can win this war.
Alison Rose
@Ruckus: In one of Adam’s updates early-ish in the full-scale war, he said something along the lines of, you can teach someone a lot of things involved in being a president or a war-time leader, but you can’t teach character or integrity, you can’t teach leadership. Those things have to exist within the person, and clearly, they did in Zelenskyy. You can see this in the fact that, true, he maybe hadn’t been the best president before late February, but nearly overnight, he turned into exactly the person the country needed at that moment. No one taught him that, no one trained him in that. That’s who he always was.
HumboldtBlue
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Surprisingly yes, it was a terrible 12 seconds and a difficult 36 hours, and the 4-plus aftershocks have absolutely sucked, but my neighbors and I were very fortunate not have suffered more severe damage. Residents in the southern part of the county got hit hard, we were spared.
@Geminid:
Understood, and I think the omnibus ties into the invitation to bring Zelensky over to speak. Again, this is masterful politics.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: I’m trying, I’m trying :P But if Nancy ever emails me as “Allison” ALL BETS ARE OFF.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: I am, it was a long day and it’s been a long two weeks!
What?
persistentillusion
@Ruckus: Fully in agreement with your take.
WaterGirl
@MattF:
Fixed that for you.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
I fully understand. I’ve seen people who lead with grace and thought and people who lead by bullying using their position (I was in the US military after all). He has grace and thought.
Layer8Problem
@NotoriousJRT: He lives there because it’s away from major population centers and he has clear fields of fire in case hordes of “urban” hooligans track him down. No aspersions cast here about Maine, I love it. Except Paul LePage; fuck that guy. Ok, and Senator Collins.
zhena gogolia
@dr. luba: so not on the second syllable? I misunderstood what G and T said then
Dan B
I heard there were empty seats in the GQP section, maybe half. I’d love to see Russian flags on those seats.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: yeah
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I’m sure. Biden knows politics and has years of experience. Zelensky seems like he is whip smart and has emotional IQ that’s off the charts.
Of course they are trying to help even the worst Rs connect with Zelensky and Ukraine AND barring that, to make it damn awkward for them to quit funding the fight for the survival of democracy.
Torrey
I missed the chance to say this in the thread about the press conference with Biden, but I think Zelenskyy was very smart to turn his “thank you for what you gave us; but give more” into–not a joke, exactly, but sort of a running tag line. delivered somewhat humorously. I noticed he did that in his interview with Christiane Amanpour after the infamous phone call with TFG. It’s always delivered with a charming smile as if he’s not really serious, but of course that allows him to remind people that Ukraine really does need more and to do it without seeming to beg and without it becoming tiresome.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: You should see how people bastardize my last name.
zhena gogolia
Great speech. So moving.
Amir Khalid
@Torrey:
Ukraine is still die Ukraine in German and l’Ukraine in French, which I find a bit annoying. I’m sure there are other languages that haven’t dropped the definite article from Ukraine’s name.
lowtechcyclist
@Steeplejack: Well shit, I was wrong. I was hoping you were merely being sarcastic.
Wrong, but unsurprised.
JWR
From Aaron Rupar’s twitter thang:
Oh STFU and f*ck right off, dumbass T***p trash!
prostratedragon
@lowtechcyclist: Well i suppose it reduces to the same thing. The choice of moving quickly to the offense would not require US operators. It need not lead to a situation like Vietnam, which made the phrase “mission creep” current.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Thankfully my last name has only one spelling. (Well, I’m sure there is some weirdo out there who spells it differently, but probably 99% of us spell it the one way.) I know that having a first name with four common spellings plus like ten others, I should resign myself to it, but I will not ever, LOL. And I like my name, though every once in a while I do wish Rose were my first name so that people would always get it right :P
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Of course I meant you, too. :-)
Torrey
@persistentillusion:
Based on some of the mispronunciations, I think he was reading English. His English is pretty good, but it may be that the focus when he learned it was more on writing than speaking, as was common in some European countries some time back, and may still be in many cases
Alison Rose
@JWR: I liked David Corn’s response to that:
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Dementia is not the condition being discussed.
Of course Speaker Pelosi knows the correct name of the country of her honored guest. But language mistakes happen, even in younger people. And they happen more frequently as we age. It’s extremely common. If you learn a phrase or name earlier in life, and then it changes (for whatever reason), then later in life we often inadvertently use the older phrasing. “The Ukraine” coming out of Speaker Pelosi’s mouth is practically the perfect example of this.
Chetan Murthy
@Amir Khalid: Ehh, in French, it’s Les Etats Unis (iirc). L’Amerique. L’Inde. Etc.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: This is a blog – you can go with anything you want! :-)
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Zelensky may not have said anything at all about churches, and the Fox chyron is about a weeks-old story that Carlson is exaggerating.
But when the chyron was quoted my first thought was that Carlson was dog-whistling about Zelensky being Jewish. I certainly would not put it past him. The anti-Semitism on the right is getting more and more blatant.
Alison Rose
@Torrey: It’s also likely just the issue that no matter how well you learn another language, some of the letter combinations and pronunciations are going to be difficult for your mouth to learn. We see that all the time when non-Ukrainians try to say anything in that language. Having heard him speak English many times, both from prepared remarks and sort of off the cuff, it’s mainly just his accent and the differences in sounds, I think.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: I do try hard to get everyone’s name / nym right. beth and satby are both lower case.
lowtechcyclist is in the doghouse with me because sometimes he’s lowtechcyclist and sometimes he’s Low Tech Cyclist. What’s a girl to do? 🤷♀️🤷♀️
Chetan Murthy
@Torrey:
I agree, and came to that conclusion based on his pronunciation of “bicameral”. If he’d had phonetic text, he’d have come closer to the correct pronunciation, I would think.
But whatevs: it was certainly the right decision to give his address in English.
Torrey
@Amir Khalid: I think French uses the definite article for country names as a rule in any case: la France, l’Allemagne, la Grèce, etc.
Alison Rose
@Geminid: I wouldn’t put it past him either, but remember, he and his ilk screech about plenty of people who are actual Christians “hating Christianity” or whatever.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Carlson is a Russian-owned traitor through and through.
sdhays
@WaterGirl: I’m reminded that Nancy (and her majority) was probably the major reason Trump’s extortion attempt which led to his first impeachment failed. The money he was withholding was finally released, and he saw her go to bat not just for the US, but for Ukraine too. He knows she’s not just an ally, but a kindred spirit.
Another Scott
Excellent speech.
I enjoyed his dig about the need to “put in, put in” the criminals that started this war.
I think that supporting Ukraine is more popular in the GQP than folks like Carson want us to believe. Lots of the RWNJs running against popular Democrats here in NoVA were all in on supporting Ukraine. Lots of folks with don’t step on snek vanity license plates have Ukraine flags on their homes. I’m not worried much about continued US support for Ukraine. I worry more about the long ramp-up times and so forth, but I think those will be resolved with time.
Slava Ukraini!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Torrey
@dr. luba:
Thank you for indicating the accented syllable. Since (as you know, but I’m adding this for those who might not) Ukrainian doesn’t reduce unaccented syllables, I often find it difficult to hear which syllable is actually stressed.
Amir Khalid
@JWR:
It’s actually a good thing that Donald Jr constantly reminds us that he’s an idiot.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: That could be. They definitely appear to have a very strong connection.
Adam L Silverman
@steppy: Either nicorette or he’s dipping.
JWR
@Alison Rose: Excellent response from Corn. Just the other night, after his response to the J6 report, I was thinking that TFG’s mouth alone s/b declared an Insurrection. Today I add TFGJr to the list of those suffering from Insurrection of the Mouth disease. God I hate these people!
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: Ha! You are saying the same thing the Alison and the Allison I know say all the time (well, functionally say it). And they won’t let me get away with calling them “Al” – even when I remind them that Paul Simon says it’s OK!
zhena gogolia
Okay, I am going with what Dr. Luba says — the accent is on the “DY.” This would be consistent with how Vladimir is pronounced in Russian, with the accent on the “DI.”
HumboldtBlue
@Alison Rose:
And both of whom will not be in Congress next year.
zhena gogolia
Wikipedia:
JWR
PBS guy says that Boebert, Gaetz and Greene applauded, but didn’t rise when others did. Expected, I know, but still gets my hackles up.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): This omnibus bill does not raise the debt ceiling and neither does the NDAA.
Unless Pat Leahy and Richard Shelby had a staff member sneak it in, as in: “Section 84(j)iii-Cranberry harvesting equipment purchased before July 1, 2022 may be depreciated 25% per year and the debt ceiling is now 30 trillion dollars.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Slight correction.
Jr is an idiot asshole.
I can go on and add a few more words along that line which even closer describes him but I think the point is made, any swearing added to his name is appropriate. I can do an entire paragraph of swear words which would enhance his many, many negative aspects. And while normally I dislike denigrating a person with his level of disabilities, he’s earned every single word.
jnfr
I actually started applauding when he showed up and didn’t even notice for a minute. I was genuinely excited.
His speech was nearly perfect, his emphasis on drawing in both sides of Congress, whether they like it or not was right on point. Whether it will matter in the long run is hard to say but he did his job perfectly.
I did a standing ovation at the end, right here in my office.
Bill Arnold
@Alison Rose:
And a lot of Republicans. Maybe this can be used (wedge-like) to adjust their behavior. (Just thinking out loud.)
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: They both lost their seats because of the commission, maybe that gives them a connection.
BritinChicago
@Alison Rose: Churchill was not so wonderful, at least from my leftish point of view, before WWII or after it. But he was the leader needed during the war.
WaterGirl
@jnfr: I found myself clapping a few times.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Why the hell not? Don’t Manchin, etc understand what’s at stake? What good will their wealth be if the global financial system collapses because of a US debt default? McCarthy and the House GOP cannot be trusted
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): B/c too many rich people believe in the “ceteris paribus fallacy”. Viz. “I can change this one thing without it bringing the whole house of cards down on my head”.
Also known as “somebody else will surely clean up this mess, and I can still get PAID!”
Amir Khalid
@BritinChicago:
Zelenskyy agrees completely with you about Churchill as an imperialist, and for that reason doesn’t like to be compared to him.
Gin & Tonic
@Chetan Murthy: And he struggled with “righteous” in the FDR segment.
People should understand that Ukrainian is a phonetic language – it is pronounced as it is written, letter for letter. You may get the accent on the wrong syllable if you don’t know the word, but it doesn’t have pronunciation landmines like “bough,” “cough” and “dough.”
persistentillusion
@WaterGirl: I couldn’t spell my (maiden) last name until I was in second grade. With you sister.
jnfr
@HumboldtBlue:
Glad to hear you are okay and checking in. I have another friend who was caught in that earthquake. She’s okay too, with some damage to her apartment. It was all quite a shock.
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
Hmmm, I hadn’t noticed I was in your doghouse!
I’m pretty sure it’s been at least two years since I went from being low-tech cyclist here (might have had initial caps, can’t remember) to being lowtechcyclist, like I am on Disqus fora. I think that’s what I am pretty much everywhere but Twitter, where I don’t expect to be much longer anyway.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I could not say why there was no deal on a debt ceiling increase. I think the Senators and Reps know how important it is. Maybe they have a plan, or maybe they’re just assuming they’ll find a way to cross that bridge when they come to it.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: When did I say that? In current spoken Ukrainian the accent will be on the third syllable. Among older emigres from western Ukraine you’ll often hear the accent on the last syllable.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
I hope they have a plan
HumboldtBlue
@WaterGirl:
Could be.
@jnfr:
Thanks. A shock indeed.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@HumboldtBlue:
Happy to hear things weren’t so bad for you
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Well that was a total exaggeration, but there is truth to it.
I keep a spreadsheet for the pet calendar, and we include the person’s nym in the naming of the file. e.g. lowtechcyclist – Roger (if Roger was your pet’s name).
So I had you in as lowtechcyclist in the spreadsheet and the file names. But then I saw a comment and it was the upper case separate words thing, so I changed it in all 4 locations. Then I saw a comment from you the next day and it was lower case again.
Grrr.
Only the funny thing is that I checked the spreadsheet just now so I could verify how many instances I had to change, and I discovered that you’re not in there at all! It’s Low Key Swagger!
Brain fart. Anyway, you were in the doghouse in any meaningful way, but now you’re really not in the doghouse because it wasn’t you at all. :-)
Steve in the ATL
@Amir Khalid: every country has a definite article in French.
Chetan Murthy
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m sure you’re right, but I”ll just note that both my grammar teachers in elementary school, as well as my French teachers at the Alliance Francaise (when I was 26) assured me the same thing about their (in the first case, *our*) languages. That’s what “phonics” was all about, right?
And yet, French has a shit-ton of unpronounced bits of words, and words that can be pronounced more than one way, with different meanings. Like “fils” (“wires”, pronounced like “feel”) vs. “fils” (“son”, pronouced “feeess”).
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chetan Murthy:
I guess lol
Alison Rose
@Chief Oshkosh: My brothers used to call me Al to get a rise out of me when we were little. That I could ignore, but there were also always people who would start calling me Ali after meeting me, even though I always introduce myself as Alison and that’s the only name I have ever gone by. It’s a mite irritating.
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: The -ough thing has to be one of the stupidest things in English. There are too many ways it can be pronounced!! Rough, bough, through, though, ought…I’m probably forgetting a few.
Chetan Murthy
@Alison Rose: I remember when I was learning French, and complained a little to my French colleagues about some (to me) inexplicable thing in French pronunciation, they’d reply with some list of English words that were equally mad, like:
hear,heart,wear, … I forget the rest
and then there was a list of words with “ie” in it, like financier, and again, I forget the rest.
But the distinct memory I have, is that they learned these lists in their English classes, b/c the quirks of English had to be memorized, there were no rules they could use to infer them.
schrodingers_cat
@BritinChicago: The millions who perished in the Bengal famine during WWII because of Churchill’s decision to starve India would like a word
ETA: Without Indian blood and $$ Britain would not have prevailed in the war. Pretty speeches can only get you so far. The soldiers of the Empire are conveniently whitewashed away in the heroic retellings of how Britain won the war.
patrick II
@Geminid:
Both are true. Two birds with one stone. It is clever in an evil dog-whistle kind of way.
HumboldtBlue
@WaterGirl:
How utterly amazing. Just, amazing.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@morfydd: As a contrast Fucker Carlson, the news part of Fox was on at work today at lunch and was just crushing on Zelenskyy, was calling Zelenskyy the greatest Western war time leader since Winston Churchill. That was interesting to see on Fox.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: I must have misremembered.
RaflW
@WaterGirl: As could easily be predicted, Lauren Botulism‘s squeaker win in CO-03 taught her nothing about class, moderation, or civility.
Maybe 2024 will kick her in the can.
Torrey
@HumboldtBlue:
Thank you for posting this link to DakhaBrakha’s music. I see they have a presence on iTunes. I would like to hear more of their music, so I shall be spending some money.
dexwood
@HumboldtBlue: See them live if you ever get the chance. Fantastic. We’ve seen them four times. They seem to come through New Mexico fairly often. They were in Albuquerque again this past September and held the audience captive.
Manyakitty
@HumboldtBlue: at least she, Jordan, and gaetz kept their pie holes shut. I noticed Jerry Nadler sitting right by them, probably babysitting.
Manyakitty
@lowtechcyclist: i think in this case the President would add political tension to what ended up a masterful balancing act. I especially loved the human barricade/reception team/thingy made of senators and congresscritters.
jonas
How some of these anti-Ukrainian Repukes even dare show their *faces* in this sacred hall tonight is beyond me. *Spits on ground* Zelenskyy did a masterful job and tied his country’s struggle into a larger historical narrative about the fight for liberty and democracy throughout history, from the American revolution through WWII to the present day. The idea that there are *Republicans* — I mean honest to Dog people calling themselves Republicans — who roll their eyes at this and secretly cheerlead for Russia is just mind-boggling. I mean, it’s not surprising as most of them were giggling with delight every time Trump donned his kneepads and went in to confer with Putin at some summit meeting, but damn.
Lyrebird
@zhena gogolia: FWIW I had the same impression. Glad to get the updates.
Darkrose
@Alison Rose: Which thing about the Russian churches? I think I missed that one.
Alison Rose
@Darkrose: See my comment above – Zelenskyy signed an order banning religious organizations tied to russia.
Darkrose
@HumboldtBlue: Please take care.
Andrya
@WaterGirl: I know I’ve posted this stuff before, but hopefully the jackals will forgive me for repeating myself.
The russian Orthodox Church inside russia is a wholly owned subsidiary of Vladimir Putin. Patriarch Kirill, the head of the russian Orthodox Church in russia, has endorsed the attack on Ukraine because (he says) the Ukrainians are “satanic” and have Gay Pride Parades (!!??!!). I’m sure the jackals will remember that Patriarch Kirill was photographed wearing a $39,000 watch (just what Jesus would do, right?).
Ukraine, unlike russia, has religious diversity. In 2019, the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew (more or less the pope of Eastern Orthodoxy) declared the Ukrainian Orthodox church “autocephalous” (independent of Moscow). As a result, there are two versions of Eastern Orthodoxy in Ukraine: the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (independent, due to Patriarch Bartholomew’s decree) and the Russian Orthodox Church (subservient to Moscow). Needless to say, the second group is a problem for the Ukrainian government. There are also Eastern Rite Catholics, Christian Protestants, Jews, and Muslims. All of these groups except russian Orthodoxy are suppressed/persecuted in russia.
So, here’s what’s behind tucker carlson’s statement: The russian Orthodox Church in russia (the one that reports to Patriarch Kirill) has been acting as an active agent of the russian government. The Ukrainian government has said “you can’t do this any more”. tucker carlson (a total slime) has been equating suppressing a church acting as an active agent of an enemy in wartime with an attack on Christianity. Not true. The independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Protestants, and the Eastern Rite Catholics are doing just fine.
jonas
@Steeplejack:
Ukraine recently took action to close churches and other religious organizations still tied to the Russian Orthodox Church, which had become more or less a propaganda arm of Putin’s Kremlin preaching the destruction of Ukraine and its people. It’s not a legitimate religious institution — it’s the state cult of Putin’s neo-tsarist regime. Given that Russian Orthodoxy claims roots in the conversion of Kyivan Rus in the 10th century, and that this connection is part of Russia’s mythology about why Ukraine should be destroyed and reunited with Russia, they’ve been screaming bloody murder about Zelenskyy’s action, which has also been amplified by Kremlin-aligned disinformation outlets in the West. Such as Tucker Carlson’s show.
sab
JD Vance said he didn’t give a shit about Ukraine, and then he won the election as Senator for a state with the highest Ukarainian population in the US.
WaterGirl
@Andrya: Thanks so much for that!
Uncle Cosmo
@sab: Late to the thread, I know, but…I wonder how much that had to do with publication of the leak the week before the election of that draft circulated (the previous summer) among leftish Democratic Congressfolks (who should’ve known better, shame on you Jamie Raskin!) about backing off support for Ukraine? How much you wanna bet the leaker was a Thuglican mole in the apparatus just waiting for the best time to make it public?